:00:37. > :00:41.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:42. > :00:47.Her political rivals from the main parties lined up
:00:48. > :00:49.to criticise her for not taking part in the seven-way debate,
:00:50. > :00:52.with Amber Rudd speaking for the Conservative Party.
:00:53. > :00:55.As campaigning for the election enters its final week,
:00:56. > :00:58.Theresa May is about to give a speech setting out her vision
:00:59. > :01:05.After last night's debate, it's also Brexit day for Jeremy Corbyn,
:01:06. > :01:08.as he gives a speech outlining Labour's views later today.
:01:09. > :01:11.We ask Tony Blair's former flatmate, Lord Falconer, how he feels
:01:12. > :01:18.And the moodbox continues its travels around the country.
:01:19. > :01:22.Today, Ellie has wheeled it to the Lincolnshire town of Skegness.
:01:23. > :01:25.Have you decided who you're going to vote for yet?
:01:26. > :01:29.Because they are all as bad as one another.
:01:30. > :01:38.And they make promises and it doesn't come off.
:01:39. > :01:43.And with us for the whole of the programme today,
:01:44. > :01:45.is the Labour peer and former Lord Chancellor, Charlie Falconer.
:01:46. > :01:50.First though, the BBC election debate.
:01:51. > :01:53.Senior politicians from the seven main political parties took to
:01:54. > :01:59.Theresa May's rivals accused her of lacking "guts" for not attending,
:02:00. > :02:04.with Labour's Jeremy Corbyn deciding late on that he would take part.
:02:05. > :02:10.Here's Adam with the highlights of the debate.
:02:11. > :02:16.You could be watching Britain's Got Talent on the other side.
:02:17. > :02:20.But on this stage, it's all about which politician has talent.
:02:21. > :02:23.The debate's been electrified before it's even started by the last minute
:02:24. > :02:26.decision by Jeremy Corbyn to come and stand at this podium.
:02:27. > :02:30.The Conservatives sent the Home Secretary,
:02:31. > :02:38.who may have felt at times it was six against one.
:02:39. > :02:41.They are promising a dementia tax, an end to the winter fuel payment
:02:42. > :02:47.I think those people deserve to know by how much.
:02:48. > :02:51.Why is Britain the second biggest arms dealer in the world?
:02:52. > :02:56.Why are we selling to 22 of the 30 countries
:02:57. > :02:59.on the Government's own human rights watchlist?
:03:00. > :03:04.Amber Rudd seems so confident this is a country at ease with itself,
:03:05. > :03:08.Have you seen people sleeping around our stations?
:03:09. > :03:14.So, Amber Rudd cast herself in the role of the grown-up on stage.
:03:15. > :03:17.I just have to take on some of the Jeremy Corbyn's
:03:18. > :03:25.I mean, he has a money tree wishlist in his manifesto.
:03:26. > :03:27.It's very easy to think about how you spend money.
:03:28. > :03:30.It is much harder to think about how you raise money.
:03:31. > :03:34.It's as if he thinks it is some sort of game,
:03:35. > :03:37.a game of monopoly perhaps, where you ask the banker for the red
:03:38. > :03:40.money to buy the electrics, the green money to buy the railways
:03:41. > :03:42.and the yellow money to buy the gasworks.
:03:43. > :03:46.In the spin room, we watched the inevitable row about who'd
:03:47. > :03:49.negotiate the best Brexit, which turned into an argument
:03:50. > :03:53.A city the size of Hull came to this country never.
:03:54. > :03:56.That will be a Birmingham over a five-year period.
:03:57. > :04:03.We do it by having an Australian points-based system.
:04:04. > :04:07.If you've got the skills that this country needs, yes,
:04:08. > :04:15.Ukip just claimed people voted to leave the European Union and,
:04:16. > :04:20.in so doing, they also voted to curb immigration.
:04:21. > :04:23.I don't think we can read that into the result.
:04:24. > :04:29.Although quite a lot of the time, it just sounded like this...
:04:30. > :04:37.But, was the real star of the show the woman who wasn't there?
:04:38. > :04:38.So you've heard the squabbling and discord
:04:39. > :04:45.You've seen the coalition of chaos in action.
:04:46. > :04:49.But in the quiet of the polling booth, you have a clear choice.
:04:50. > :04:52.A vote for anyone other than Theresa May is a vote for
:04:53. > :05:00.Leadership is about understanding the people you represent.
:05:01. > :05:06.Is about not being so high and mighty you can't take advice.
:05:07. > :05:10.It is also about bringing people with you.
:05:11. > :05:13.It is also about ensuring your responsibilities to protect
:05:14. > :05:16.the safety and security of everybody in this country and to lead
:05:17. > :05:20.a Government that cares for everybody in the country.
:05:21. > :05:22.The Prime Minister is not here tonight.
:05:23. > :05:27.In fact, Bake Off is on BBC Two next.
:05:28. > :05:33.You are not worth Theresa May's time.
:05:34. > :05:38.Err, no time to watch Bake Off when there's post-match
:05:39. > :05:43.Be honest, would you rather be at home watching Bake Off?
:05:44. > :05:48.For all the people talking over themselves, and there
:05:49. > :05:52.was a lot of that tonight, my own view is the moderator should
:05:53. > :05:59.have had a switch that could switch their mics off.
:06:00. > :06:01.There's David Davis with his finger in his ear.
:06:02. > :06:04.Do you think it was all too much for him?
:06:05. > :06:07.Well, backstage, after 90 minutes of shouting and all their spinning,
:06:08. > :06:15.But has it changed how anyone will vote?
:06:16. > :06:21.Joining us in the studio is the Home Office Minister Brandon Lewis.
:06:22. > :06:28.Welcome to the programme. Why didn't Theresa May take part? I think
:06:29. > :06:31.actually, what we saw, the clip you showed, highlighted, she made the
:06:32. > :06:36.right decision. While everyone's shouting over each other she's
:06:37. > :06:40.getting on with the job. Talking to people across the country. Not
:06:41. > :06:44.running scared? No. She's been taking questions from the press far
:06:45. > :06:49.more than Jeremy Corbyn and depates about PMQs every week. She made the
:06:50. > :06:55.right decision as she was concerned. Not part of this seven- way
:06:56. > :07:01.squabble? I think she made a cowardly and arrogant decision. To
:07:02. > :07:04.make a snap election decision and not debate directly with the other
:07:05. > :07:10.party leaders treats the people with contempt. I saw a film about her
:07:11. > :07:13.meeting the electorate. She was outside a hang are. Tight in, people
:07:14. > :07:19.around her. The camera pulled away. There were about 20 people. It was a
:07:20. > :07:25.completely staged event. Her excuse for not doing the debate is she's
:07:26. > :07:30.meeting the electorate. But it is in such controlled circumstances. All
:07:31. > :07:35.politicians meet them in staged managed way. Jeremy Corbyn decided
:07:36. > :07:39.he was take part and was there defending Labour's policies?
:07:40. > :07:45.Outlining some of the fantasy stuff. Not able to... What is the fantasy
:07:46. > :07:50.stuff? With nationalisation, they haven't outlined how much it will
:07:51. > :07:54.cost, how they'll pay for it. When they talk about security, he has
:07:55. > :08:02.voted against anti-terror laws for 35 years. The Shadow Home Secretary
:08:03. > :08:06.wants to disband MI5. They cannot look after the security of our
:08:07. > :08:10.country coming from that position. In terms of being brave standing in
:08:11. > :08:13.a debate like this with rivals from other parties, did he at least put
:08:14. > :08:19.his money where his mouth is? Theresa May was at the debate on
:08:20. > :08:23.Monday night. She's... That wasn't a debate with with other politicians.
:08:24. > :08:28.It a discussion with the public. What about discussions with other
:08:29. > :08:33.party leaders? Why not She faced Jeremy Corbyn in PMQs week in, week
:08:34. > :08:38.out. The country's watching the Prime Minister. She had the time to
:08:39. > :08:42.come to the debate at Sky. Why not directly with Jeremy? The chaos we
:08:43. > :08:48.saw last night highlights why she did the right thing. She has been
:08:49. > :08:52.debating with Jeremy Corbyn at p. MQs week in, week out. She's
:08:53. > :08:58.focussed talking to people about what she can do for this country.
:08:59. > :09:02.Tony Blair never did a debate. This was very much before the pre-debate
:09:03. > :09:06.times. It is a legitimate point to raise. We're talking about now
:09:07. > :09:10.though. Let's talk about the magic money tree. Amber Rudd's phrase of
:09:11. > :09:15.the evening. I heard it several times. Talking about Labour and how
:09:16. > :09:23.they are going to fund their manifesto promises that amount to
:09:24. > :09:29.?48 billion. She has a point? We've made a deliberate decision, partly
:09:30. > :09:34.by borrowing and increasing taxes on the top 5%, we'll spend more money.
:09:35. > :09:38.What Brandon describes as our fantasy politics, we've made a clear
:09:39. > :09:43.decision to abandon austerity. The Tories have decided to keep going.
:09:44. > :09:46.That's the choice for the country. The institute of fiscal did youedies
:09:47. > :09:51.say they doubt very much the tax receipts will come in to fund that
:09:52. > :09:55.?48 billion. You will tax more, the 5%. You'll spend more but you
:09:56. > :09:58.haven't costed it in terms of guaranteeing those tax receipts.
:09:59. > :10:03.Nobody could guarantee it. The question is what sort of return
:10:04. > :10:07.would you get from the tax increases and our estimate is the best. But,
:10:08. > :10:13.there are risks in relace to it. I accept that. In terms of the magic
:10:14. > :10:18.money tree, did you get a feeling from the debate people watching and
:10:19. > :10:22.taking part, if you look at the progressive alliance, people are fed
:10:23. > :10:27.up with us a starity? We have to try to live within our means. We've been
:10:28. > :10:32.up front about the fact we have to do it. You haven't paid off the
:10:33. > :10:38.deficit. Debt is still rising. The deficit is still ?52 billion for the
:10:39. > :10:41.year ending March this year. In a way, austerity hasn't done what it
:10:42. > :10:45.was supposed to do. If I can finish. That highlights the key point. We
:10:46. > :10:51.got that deficit Labour left us with. ?151 billion down to ?51
:10:52. > :10:56.billion. That was seven years ago That's how bad it is. Labour haven't
:10:57. > :11:01.costed this out. They've not outlined what nationalisation would
:11:02. > :11:06.cost. How of they're going to use this Corporation Tax change they've
:11:07. > :11:10.spent 12 times over. Corporation Tax take is going up. They have figures.
:11:11. > :11:16.You may not like them. Where are your figures? It is easy to get them
:11:17. > :11:22.wrong if you don't have them on social care and how many pensioners
:11:23. > :11:27.will lose the winter fuel allowance. We've outlined our commitments. We
:11:28. > :11:31.are delivering our priorities in the budget and manfess toe. It is using
:11:32. > :11:35.the money the country's got rather than pretending to do things we
:11:36. > :11:39.haven't the money for. The The figures are not there. What you are
:11:40. > :11:44.disguising, Brandon, is what the Tories will do is cut and cut as
:11:45. > :11:48.they said they would in the March 2017 budget. The problem you had
:11:49. > :11:51.with the social care thing, it was very indicative of the sorts of cuts
:11:52. > :11:56.that are coming. Take away people's... It is no different to
:11:57. > :12:04.what it is now. It is different to what's now. Only in terms of Theresa
:12:05. > :12:09.May saying she'll race the floor. ? Terms of people paying for social
:12:10. > :12:15.care they do that now. They didn't have to pay for care in their homes,
:12:16. > :12:19.now they do. We saw a lot of noisy support for Jeremy Corbyn outside
:12:20. > :12:23.and from the audience last night. Is that enthusiasm going to transfer to
:12:24. > :12:27.the quiet of the polling booth? I have no idea what will happen. All I
:12:28. > :12:31.can tell you is two things. We went into this election on the basis it
:12:32. > :12:34.was about Brexit. We're coming out of it and it's about what Britain's
:12:35. > :12:40.going to be like. The British people or some of them, are very, very
:12:41. > :12:44.concerned we are returning to Thatcher. The crowd which greeted
:12:45. > :12:47.Jeremy Corbyn in Cambridge, each side of the street was lined with
:12:48. > :12:54.people. I don't know whether they will vote. A lot are very young, if
:12:55. > :12:59.that group of people does go the ballot box, I think we're in for
:13:00. > :13:03.some surprises. How do you explain the change in the polls. The 24
:13:04. > :13:11.point lead the Tories had which some polls suggest has been now slashed
:13:12. > :13:18.to just 3 points. There are a whole range ofs poles out there. The only
:13:19. > :13:23.pole that matters is June 8th. What people will be doing on June 8th. I
:13:24. > :13:27.hope, what I'm getting when I talk to people on the doorstep, is make a
:13:28. > :13:32.decision about who they want as Prime Minister. Someone who can
:13:33. > :13:37.stand up for difficult things, say this is an issue which needs to be
:13:38. > :13:43.dealt with. We have a plan which lab can't. Someone to get the right deal
:13:44. > :13:46.for this country as we leave the EU. Something Jeremy didn't want to
:13:47. > :13:48.touch on. We talked briefly about some of the noisy support for Jeremy
:13:49. > :13:50.Corbyn outside. This Well, this morning,
:13:51. > :13:52.the Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said he thought there
:13:53. > :13:55.was a left-wing bias. It was a yammering
:13:56. > :13:58.cacophony of views. Even by the BBC's own standards,
:13:59. > :14:02.I think you would agree, that audience was notably
:14:03. > :14:06.to the left of many And, you had Plaid Cymru and
:14:07. > :14:11.the SNP and Liberal Democrats Of course, there was a certain sort
:14:12. > :14:20.of echo chamber for left-wing views. Joining us from our Exeter
:14:21. > :14:23.studio is Andrew Hawkins from the polling company ComRes,
:14:24. > :14:36.who selected the audience. Andrew, what do you say to Boris
:14:37. > :14:45.Johnson's complaints that was a notably left-wing audience? Well, I
:14:46. > :14:49.mean, if you have seven party representatives and five of those
:14:50. > :14:56.represent parties to the left and only two to the right, then the
:14:57. > :15:02.phrase he used, yammering cock off if I, the reality was the audience
:15:03. > :15:07.was scrupulously put together and selected and verified. I think a
:15:08. > :15:11.politician's clapometer is probably not the best way to judge how
:15:12. > :15:16.representative it is of the voting public. It's actually to open the
:15:17. > :15:22.bonnet, as it were. To understand how that audience was put together.
:15:23. > :15:29.It's like constructing a giant 3D jigsaw. You have to look at how
:15:30. > :15:33.representative, making sure it is of the 2015 result. Making sure it is
:15:34. > :15:37.representative of the current voting intention. Make sure it is
:15:38. > :15:41.representative of people who voted remain and leave and make sure it is
:15:42. > :15:47.demographically representative as well. It was. What did you think
:15:48. > :15:52.when you watched the debate? Did you get any sense despite having gone
:15:53. > :15:55.through those hoops and hurdles, it felt somehow one-sided or more
:15:56. > :16:05.towards one side than the other? Yeah. Certainly, there's no question
:16:06. > :16:08.in my mind that Amber Rudd and, to an extent, Paul Nuttall were up
:16:09. > :16:13.against a mock vocal crowd. That's for sure. But, actually, when you
:16:14. > :16:17.watch what the audience were doing, half the audience were clapping at
:16:18. > :16:22.those moments and half weren't. You don't hear the ones who are not
:16:23. > :16:26.clapping. Only the ones who do. So, actually, yeah, it's true, it was
:16:27. > :16:32.noisy. I can understand why it came across like that. But, when you look
:16:33. > :16:36.at what people or how people are behaving, it wasn't the case. In the
:16:37. > :16:43.end, I presume whatever looks good on paper, the reality can somehow
:16:44. > :16:48.appear quite different? You can, of course, get a dynamic where people
:16:49. > :16:52.on one end of the spectrum are a reluctant to make as much noise as
:16:53. > :16:55.people on the other end of the spectrum. There may have been a bit
:16:56. > :16:57.of that last night as well. Thank you.
:16:58. > :17:02.Polly Toynbee from The Guardian and Seb Payne from the Financial Times.
:17:03. > :17:08.They're outside enjoying the sunshine.
:17:09. > :17:12.Seb Payne, the Financial Times has come out in support of Theresa May
:17:13. > :17:18.in this election albeit rather grudgingly. Why? We looked at the
:17:19. > :17:22.options on offer and we did not really like any of them. Our view is
:17:23. > :17:27.pro-market and free trade and capitalism. It really was almost an
:17:28. > :17:31.ugly baby contest for us to see which one we felt would be the best
:17:32. > :17:36.thing. We live in a democracy and this election is about choosing who
:17:37. > :17:39.we want to be the next Prime Minister and we consider Jeremy
:17:40. > :17:42.Corbyn's programme would be quite dangerous for the country
:17:43. > :17:45.economically, it would not see growth and prosperity particularly
:17:46. > :17:48.for our readers in the City of London and therefore, Theresa May is
:17:49. > :17:53.probably the best person to get us through the Brexit deal. We said she
:17:54. > :17:57.is the safer bet, not option, it is a bet because we think Brexit is a
:17:58. > :18:01.bet and we will see how it turns out. Was the Prime Minister wrong to
:18:02. > :18:05.skip the debate last night Polly Toynbee? Will it have major
:18:06. > :18:09.consequences or does it not really matter? I'm not sure about major
:18:10. > :18:14.consequences but the one thing people will take from it is that she
:18:15. > :18:17.was there and ran away but Jeremy Corbyn was there and that was quite
:18:18. > :18:20.important, I think. They may take away from it that Amber Rudd did
:18:21. > :18:25.rather better than she would have done and she came out of it
:18:26. > :18:28.reasonably well. The shy Tories in the audience did not back her up
:18:29. > :18:32.very much. They were there but they were awfully shy. She was run out on
:18:33. > :18:37.her own. But she made a reasonable fist of it. But as ever, what
:18:38. > :18:40.surprises people when they see Jeremy Corbyn is that he is so much
:18:41. > :18:44.better than they thought he would be. He has the great advantage of
:18:45. > :18:48.having started the campaign with very low expectations and he has
:18:49. > :18:51.well exceeded them. Going back to the issue of Brexit because
:18:52. > :18:55.certainly both Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn have got speeches on
:18:56. > :19:00.that today. Seb Payne, do you think it has come a little -- too little
:19:01. > :19:04.and a little too late? This is part of the reset that the Conservatives
:19:05. > :19:08.are trying to do now, focusing on Brexit because on any other topics,
:19:09. > :19:12.they are an slightly shaky ground, like the manifesto, spending more
:19:13. > :19:15.social care. Labour has been able to score some points there whereas an
:19:16. > :19:19.Brexit, which is what the election was supposed to be about four
:19:20. > :19:22.Theresa May, she's focusing on being the best person to get the Brexit
:19:23. > :19:27.deal and having been around the country, I think voters get the
:19:28. > :19:30.sense. When you ask do you want sitting opposite Michel Barnier,
:19:31. > :19:32.Jean-Claude Juncker, Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron, people feel
:19:33. > :19:36.Theresa May is probably the best person so if they focused on that
:19:37. > :19:40.message and hammer it again and again, that is the place can
:19:41. > :19:45.probably the get the best hay from but at this stage, it might be a bit
:19:46. > :19:49.too late. Will it change any votes now, Polly, on the issue of Brexit?
:19:50. > :19:52.If you drill down on what both parties are saying in the manifesto
:19:53. > :19:58.is an Brexit, there is not much to choose between them. It is a rising
:19:59. > :20:01.Brexit has not played bigger and it has certainly surprise the Lib Dems
:20:02. > :20:04.who thought they were going to get a big surge on the back of this and I
:20:05. > :20:08.was surprised and in some ways have been disappointed as well. When
:20:09. > :20:11.people look at what Theresa May has done so far in her approach is to
:20:12. > :20:15.Europe, it has been horrendous and aggressive. She has behaved as if
:20:16. > :20:23.they were the enemy. She talks in kind of military terms. There's no
:20:24. > :20:26.doubt that all that Labour's team would be infinitely better, more
:20:27. > :20:29.emollient, treat them as friends and partners and how are we going to get
:20:30. > :20:31.through this as best we can, both sides together? Whereas Theresa May
:20:32. > :20:36.and her team, as written on her bus, are going at it like a bull in a
:20:37. > :20:40.china shop. I think Labour has, Europe has not been particularly
:20:41. > :20:44.Brett Lee towards us, Angela Merkel said this week we can't rely
:20:45. > :20:46.Britain's only does not matter how friendly you are towards Europe,
:20:47. > :20:50.they will be tough with us so they will be tough on both sides. It
:20:51. > :20:54.depends what you mean by top. What you what is a deal that works well
:20:55. > :20:57.for Europe, we don't want as Europe fall apart, even Theresa May says
:20:58. > :21:01.she is very much does not want to do damage to Europe and I don't think
:21:02. > :21:04.they want to do damage to us. If we get ourselves into a stupid
:21:05. > :21:09.confrontation with people like Boris and David Davis and Liam Fox, and
:21:10. > :21:12.now Theresa May herself as well, saying extraordinarily aggressive
:21:13. > :21:15.things, particularly during the election, which they will regret
:21:16. > :21:21.what they have to sit around a table with 27 other countries, a lot of
:21:22. > :21:24.who will be fuming at the muddy being said in the election campaign.
:21:25. > :21:27.But will they just think it is an election campaign, Seb Payne, that
:21:28. > :21:31.it's Theresa May facing the electorate even if it hasn't all
:21:32. > :21:34.been about Brexit up until now? Do you get a sense from other European
:21:35. > :21:40.leaders about how they view things like the U-turn on social care? Will
:21:41. > :21:42.they see that as an opportunity for them in negotiations? It will
:21:43. > :21:52.certainly raise some eyebrows because the whole image that has
:21:53. > :21:55.come from Theresa May, from the UK and British press, is of a strong
:21:56. > :21:58.and stable leader and a lot of what we have seen in this campaign, as
:21:59. > :22:00.people have said, is a bit more weak and wobbly. It will certainly raise
:22:01. > :22:02.eyebrows about what will happen when they sit down and begin the
:22:03. > :22:05.negotiations which, don't forget, will happen just two weeks after the
:22:06. > :22:08.election is over. But ultimately at the end of the day, Europe is not
:22:09. > :22:11.really bothered who it sits with, it just wants to get on with it and
:22:12. > :22:15.start the article 15 process and so much of the actual debating will be
:22:16. > :22:19.done behind closed doors, a lot of bargaining and horse trading, that
:22:20. > :22:22.we won't actually see. And they do know ultimately, Theresa May needs
:22:23. > :22:26.to act tough and she is trying to appeal to the 52% that backed Brexit
:22:27. > :22:31.in the referendum. I don't think it matters too much for the original
:22:32. > :22:34.outcome. I think you are completely wrong about that, I think the result
:22:35. > :22:40.of this election is going to very much affect what Europe thinks of
:22:41. > :22:46.the UK. If Labour won the election, then the profound sense in Europe
:22:47. > :22:50.would be that the demotic talk of Mrs May, those mad allegations that
:22:51. > :22:54.European officials and politicians were trying to interfere in the
:22:55. > :23:01.election, was being repudiated by the British people. The view that
:23:02. > :23:06.they see Britain as one amorphous mass is completely wrong. Finally
:23:07. > :23:10.come on the magic money tree, Polly Toynbee, we would all like one of
:23:11. > :23:14.course but if that line going to be pushed, I presume very hard by the
:23:15. > :23:18.Conservatives, and that Labour's policies, which the IFS are not
:23:19. > :23:20.wildly up to mystic about? They had said the same about the Tory
:23:21. > :23:24.manifesto which has very little costings in it at all. I don't think
:23:25. > :23:27.that we might Labour has suggested spending any more than the Tories
:23:28. > :23:33.are going to be spending on tax cuts, corporation tax, inheritance
:23:34. > :23:36.tax, taxes that benefit business and the better off. Enormously
:23:37. > :23:38.extravagant tax cuts that the country certainly cannot afford at a
:23:39. > :23:43.time when our public services are falling apart and I think that is
:23:44. > :23:47.going to be the tension. Does she really mean austerity? No, she means
:23:48. > :23:51.giving away money to some people while taking yet more away from
:23:52. > :23:54.everybody's public services. Polly Toynbee and Seb Payne, thank you.
:23:55. > :23:56.Now, the Daily Politics moodbox is on tour during the election
:23:57. > :24:00.campaign, and today Ellie is in the Lincolnshire town of Skegness.
:24:01. > :24:12.You have got the weather for it! On a beach, I can see.
:24:13. > :24:17.They say it is bracing in Skegness but actually, it is just lovely and
:24:18. > :24:23.warm and very nice. It has been well documented that Skegness and Boston
:24:24. > :24:27.voted decidedly for Brexit in last year's EU referendum, 75% voted to
:24:28. > :24:30.Leave which is one of the recent Ukip have got their eyes on this
:24:31. > :24:36.seat at the coming general election. Of course, there is one week to go
:24:37. > :24:39.before we vote, when people in this town and around the country make
:24:40. > :24:43.that big decision but have people made the decision? There's a week to
:24:44. > :24:46.go, is there any point in any of the politicians are still campaigning?
:24:47. > :24:52.That is what we are asking today. Our people decided or undecided?
:24:53. > :25:03.Have you decided who you'll vote for in the election?
:25:04. > :25:15.What, what made you make your decision?
:25:16. > :25:19.I just decided that it's better to keep what we have at the moment.
:25:20. > :25:22.Because they're all as bad as one another.
:25:23. > :25:25.They make promises and it doesn't come off.
:25:26. > :25:34.He hasn't even decided if he's going to make a decision!
:25:35. > :25:48.We want to do what's best for the disabled.
:25:49. > :25:50.We're not sure which party yet is going to do that.
:25:51. > :26:00.Because of the weak leadership of the Labour Party,
:26:01. > :26:03.I've decided to vote for Theresa May for the first time ever
:26:04. > :26:05.which is really a break with family tradition.
:26:06. > :26:07.Trying to do what's best for the country
:26:08. > :26:09.and I think Jeremy Corbyn isn't best for this country.
:26:10. > :26:15.I think Theresa May's just wanting it for herself and what she wants
:26:16. > :26:18.I don't think she's taken anybody else into consideration.
:26:19. > :26:24.There's been too much on the news for me to take it in.
:26:25. > :26:30.Otherwise I would decide, if I could understand it a bit more.
:26:31. > :26:37.Just listening to the policies of parties.
:26:38. > :26:41.Forget the fighting between the politicians,
:26:42. > :26:43.it's politics which is what's important.
:26:44. > :26:54.Doesn't affect me or my wages or my house or anything.
:26:55. > :26:56.Do you really not think it does? No.
:26:57. > :27:19.The good people of Skegness and those on holiday here
:27:20. > :27:24.The trouble is, I can't decide whether it's the decideds
:27:25. > :27:26.or undecideds who've won our moodbox today.
:27:27. > :27:31.The one thing I have decided is I need an ice cream!
:27:32. > :27:49.It's a tough job, but someone has got to do it, what a glorious day!
:27:50. > :27:52.Throughout this election, we've been speaking to the smaller parties also
:27:53. > :27:55.standing for election and today it's the turn of the SDP,
:27:56. > :27:58.The SDP was founded in March 1981 by four
:27:59. > :28:00.former Labour members - dubbed the Gang Of Four.
:28:01. > :28:01.The party say they would actively
:28:02. > :28:03.campaign for a fair, controlled and harmonious Brexit
:28:04. > :28:06.process in the best interests of the British people and with due
:28:07. > :28:08.consideration to our EU friends and neighbours.
:28:09. > :28:10.They would offer free school breakfast and lunch
:28:11. > :28:15.Remove all tax from those earning the minimum wage.
:28:16. > :28:17.Remove all tax from those They would introduce annual
:28:18. > :28:22.referendums to coincide with May elections to cover issues such
:28:23. > :28:27.as the death penalty, hunting and euthanasia.
:28:28. > :28:30.And they would ensure that all train operators provide high quality free
:28:31. > :28:32.Wi-Fi on routes that exceed 30 minutes.
:28:33. > :28:35.And we're joined by the SDP's
:28:36. > :28:46.Thank you for joining us. The party survived, I thought it had gone out
:28:47. > :28:52.of existence! It's been going for 27 years. It has not stopped. As it
:28:53. > :28:56.almost faded into nonexistence and come back? I think there's been a
:28:57. > :29:02.bit of a resurgence over the past few months. Few months? Absolutely,
:29:03. > :29:06.as the previous... I mean, politics has really changed, hasn't it?
:29:07. > :29:09.You've got all of the different parties changing their direction,
:29:10. > :29:12.changing their position, Labour on the far left now and the Tories
:29:13. > :29:16.going far right and the Lib Dems going far-fetched. There's a big gap
:29:17. > :29:19.in the middle. Right, except you have also changed your mind because
:29:20. > :29:22.last year you were the Parliamentary candidate for Ukip in the Sheffield
:29:23. > :29:27.Brightside by-election and he finished second, so when did you
:29:28. > :29:32.switch parties? A few months ago, there two parties that are boys
:29:33. > :29:36.campaign for Brexit, the SDP were campaigning for Brexit... Which is a
:29:37. > :29:39.complete change from its early days. For over 20 years, they have been
:29:40. > :29:44.Eurosceptic, they campaign to withdraw and not join the European
:29:45. > :29:49.single currency, they campaign... Mike Baird I would not associated
:29:50. > :29:53.with Roy Jenkins, a bit of a shift. A total shift but does that mean you
:29:54. > :29:59.are closer with Ukip as a result of your scepticism in the SDP? Totally
:30:00. > :30:02.not, the SDP has always stood for direct democracy and proportional
:30:03. > :30:06.representation, democracy meaning being ruled by the electorate, not
:30:07. > :30:10.the EU, all the way through, since the Lisbon Treaty, the Maastricht
:30:11. > :30:15.Treaty, the SDP has campaigned for withdrawal from the European Union.
:30:16. > :30:18.But as recently as January, in terms of your party allegiance, you
:30:19. > :30:22.tweeted Brexit is going to vote in the House of Commons, and if you
:30:23. > :30:28.want Brexit, vote Ukip to make your voice heard. So why should anyone
:30:29. > :30:31.believe you have genuinely switched allegiance? All parties have changed
:30:32. > :30:35.their position and if you are a person of integrity, you don't just
:30:36. > :30:38.follow the party line. The Labour Party has shifted and a lot of the
:30:39. > :30:42.politicians have shifted with the party rather than their own beliefs.
:30:43. > :30:46.The Conservatives, the same. My view has always been all along,
:30:47. > :30:50.democracy, leave the European Union and now obviously as the Ukip party
:30:51. > :30:56.line has shifted, mine has not. I'm not just going to follow that party.
:30:57. > :31:04.What attracted you to the failure that has been the SDP? You can argue
:31:05. > :31:06.they influenced the Labour Party. Changed their direction. Also
:31:07. > :31:10.changed the direction the Conservative Party is going in. In
:31:11. > :31:19.that way, how do you measure success? In power or influence
:31:20. > :31:27.flewence. The SDP has opportunity to exert influence. If If you've moved
:31:28. > :31:34.from Ukip to SDP? Who had confidence in Lord Owen? He blue up the SDP. Is
:31:35. > :31:38.it filled with people like you who are constantly changing our
:31:39. > :31:46.position. People think you're mad. Maybe this do. If you look at andy
:31:47. > :31:53.Taylor, a member since 1982, and through to 2017 for the SDP? It has
:31:54. > :31:57.continued, relentless, quietly in the background trying to work with
:31:58. > :32:04.vote Leaf and others to achieve its goal. You're standing a good slate
:32:05. > :32:11.of cand says in Sheffield and that's it? In Glasgow as Ant well. We're
:32:12. > :32:14.starting slowly but surely. June 9th will be a very different state of
:32:15. > :32:19.politician. Either Jeremy Corbyn's party will be victorious, unlikely.
:32:20. > :32:25.What are the Labour moderates going to do? Form their own party? Nobody
:32:26. > :32:28.knows what will happen next. What the last two years has taught us is
:32:29. > :32:33.you just expect the unexpected. Can I tell you one thing for certain.
:32:34. > :32:38.The one thing that will not happen is people will move to the SDP Will
:32:39. > :32:45.you have Labour moderates going over to the other party? No, we are not.
:32:46. > :32:49.You can't speak. If you ask Labour both people in the parliamentary
:32:50. > :32:56.Labour Party and the wider activists, are they united behind a
:32:57. > :33:00.manifesto that says an end to austerity, retains Trident... Are
:33:01. > :33:03.they united behind Jeremy Corbyn, that's the problem? There have been
:33:04. > :33:08.issues about Jeremy Corbyn. Ultimately what happens in the
:33:09. > :33:14.general election and what our basic policy is will determine... No be
:33:15. > :33:18.predict what had happen next or the attitudes of politicians. No-one
:33:19. > :33:22.will predict what party you'll be in next. Thank you for coming in.
:33:23. > :33:24.So what else has been going on in the campaign?
:33:25. > :33:34.It was sunny. It might have gone behind a cloud. Tip for viewers. If
:33:35. > :33:39.you are out on the campaign trail and you happen to spot a celebrity,
:33:40. > :33:44.well, you need to have your selfie technique nailed. Like this. There
:33:45. > :33:48.you go. We've got it pretty good, Jo, though you don't look too happy
:33:49. > :33:54.to be in my selfie. Sorry!
:33:55. > :33:57.Selfie's take practice. One candidate has been lending a hand
:33:58. > :34:02.with that today. Another thought for you. Back when I was 16, I got up to
:34:03. > :34:07.many things. But voting, of course, wasn't one of them. Whether to lower
:34:08. > :34:12.the legal voting age is a subject that came up for discussion at a BBC
:34:13. > :34:14.locality radio event. We start today's round-up with a question
:34:15. > :34:18.from a student in Sheffield. There may have been a few blushes
:34:19. > :34:21.on the BBC Sheffield election debate panel when the President
:34:22. > :34:23.of the local college Student Union, So, why can't we just
:34:24. > :34:28.get votes at 16? At 16 you're old enough
:34:29. > :34:31.to marry your MP, have sex with your MP and go to war and fight
:34:32. > :34:35.for your MP and die for your MP, The Labour, the Lib Dems
:34:36. > :34:39.and the Green Party all support For today only, you can pick up
:34:40. > :34:45.a copy of the left-wing socialist newspaper,
:34:46. > :34:48.The Morning Star, for free. Copies of the paper's
:34:49. > :34:50.Election Special are being given away in shops instead
:34:51. > :34:53.of at the usual prize of ?1. And, mastering the art
:34:54. > :34:59.of selfies with Boris Johnson. Now, where's that screen
:35:00. > :35:01.flip button thing? It's out of focus and you're
:35:02. > :35:16.barely in frame but post The ghost train at Thorpe Park just
:35:17. > :35:23.got even more terrifying. These frightening characters will
:35:24. > :35:29.chase thrillseekers on the ride, Ukip's David Kurten's been outlining
:35:30. > :35:37.plans for education this morning. We need to challenge the viewpoint
:35:38. > :35:41.that says academic schools are up here and everything else is down
:35:42. > :35:45.there and selection is bad. Saying some children should be
:35:46. > :35:48.released from school age 14 And Jeremy Corbyn's following in
:35:49. > :35:54.the footsteps of Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber and Rihanna by gracing
:35:55. > :36:03.the cover the NME. Now, as we've been speaking,
:36:04. > :36:10.Theresa May has been setting out her vision of Brexit as a "great
:36:11. > :36:13.national mission" that offers the promise of
:36:14. > :36:14.transforming this country. Later today, Jeremy Corbyn will also
:36:15. > :36:17.deliver a speech on Brexit, giving Labour's view
:36:18. > :36:19.of the opportunities Negotiations with Brussels are set
:36:20. > :36:23.to formally begin 11 days after the election,
:36:24. > :36:26.so where exactly do the parties stand regarding this
:36:27. > :36:29.country's future relationship The Conservatives intend
:36:30. > :36:34.to leave the single market And seek a "deep and
:36:35. > :36:38.special partnership" The free movement of people
:36:39. > :36:43.from the EU would end. A Great Repeal Bill would
:36:44. > :36:47.incorporate EU law into UK law. Labour says it would scrap
:36:48. > :36:51.the current Brexit white paper. And that its negotiations
:36:52. > :36:54.would emphasise securing a tariff-free relationship
:36:55. > :36:56.with the single market The party says free movement
:36:57. > :37:03.will end after Brexit and they'd And would immediately guarantee
:37:04. > :37:08.the rights of all EU The Liberal Democrats want to stay
:37:09. > :37:12.members of the single And they want a referendum
:37:13. > :37:18.on the final deal. The SNP, likewise, want
:37:19. > :37:21.to protect Scotland's place And they are demanding a place
:37:22. > :37:26.for the Scottish Government Ukip, meanwhile, want to ensure
:37:27. > :37:32.a clean break with the single market, the customs union
:37:33. > :37:34.and the ECJ. And they insist there should be no
:37:35. > :37:38.Brexit divorce bill, or future contributions
:37:39. > :37:42.to the EU budget. Let's hear what the Prime
:37:43. > :37:51.Minister has been saying We had hoped to hear from Theresa
:37:52. > :37:59.May's speech but she's running a late. Brandon Lewis joins us. What
:38:00. > :38:02.does the great national exit mean in terms of hard policies? It is
:38:03. > :38:06.recognising there is an opportunity here. We've made a decision as a
:38:07. > :38:11.country, which we've been clear we'll deliver on. We want to take
:38:12. > :38:14.this opportunity to be a more global, outward looking country to
:38:15. > :38:18.do trade deals around the world and with our European partners. To do
:38:19. > :38:22.something people on doorsteps yesterday when I was out are clear
:38:23. > :38:25.about. They want to see the parties very clearly dealing with
:38:26. > :38:28.immigration. Something the Labour Party isn't doing. How does that
:38:29. > :38:32.translate into policies. I would argue we don't know much more than
:38:33. > :38:35.we did several months ago in terms of what the offer is from the
:38:36. > :38:41.Conservatives or Labour in those terms. What does it mean in hard
:38:42. > :38:48.policy terms? We do know more. I think first of all, from the Labour
:38:49. > :38:53.point of view, I was debating with Diane Abbott earlier. ... Labour's
:38:54. > :39:00.said in their manifesto they want an end to freedom of movement. I will
:39:01. > :39:05.tackle Charlie Fawke on on what that means. A clear point for us is
:39:06. > :39:11.immigration should be at sustainable levels. Tens of thousands. We need
:39:12. > :39:15.to negotiate good trade deals with countries around the world. Attract
:39:16. > :39:20.the by the and best to come here to continue to grow our economy. I
:39:21. > :39:24.still don't know how you'll achieve those things through policy. Since
:39:25. > :39:28.you brought up immigration, the Labour manifesto says it will be an
:39:29. > :39:31.end to free movement. How many people on a net migration basis
:39:32. > :39:35.should be coming here year-on-year? I don't think that's possible to
:39:36. > :39:39.say. The Prime Minister would agree with that. You should stop people
:39:40. > :39:44.being able to come unless they have a job and the job has got to be
:39:45. > :39:50.something that somebody in the UK can't do. You'll end all unskilled
:39:51. > :39:54.labour coming from the EU? In relation to unskilled labour, there
:39:55. > :39:58.will be significant areas in the British economy where you will need
:39:59. > :40:03.unskilled labour. The focus in immigration terms, has to be what
:40:04. > :40:07.promotes the UK economy. When I say what promotes the UK economy, I moo
:40:08. > :40:11.entwo things. You shouldn't be taking jobs away from the UK where
:40:12. > :40:15.there are people who want those jobs. Secondly, have you to identify
:40:16. > :40:18.where there are bits of industry, bits of economic activity, where if
:40:19. > :40:22.you did take away the immigration, not just from the European Union but
:40:23. > :40:27.elsewhere, that would damage the economy. What does that mean in
:40:28. > :40:31.terms of farming and agriculture. Already they're expressing fears
:40:32. > :40:34.they won't be able to get the seasonal workers they need. Would
:40:35. > :40:38.you be happy to see unskilled working coming to work in that
:40:39. > :40:42.industry? I don't know what the numbers are. If you needed unskilled
:40:43. > :40:45.workers in agriculture and couldn't provide that from our own
:40:46. > :40:52.population, you would need to allow that to happen. We'd still have
:40:53. > :40:56.unskilled workers coming from the EU I believe we will in certain areas.
:40:57. > :41:00.If terms of the numbers of tens of thousands, it hasn't been hit
:41:01. > :41:03.before. Now you haven't put a timescale on when you will reach
:41:04. > :41:09.that. Do you need to put a timescale on it? We are clear we want to do
:41:10. > :41:11.something positive to the economy over the course of the next
:41:12. > :41:15.Parliament. You have a target. Criticised Labour for not having a
:41:16. > :41:20.target. You haven't said when you'd deliver it? . We did, over the
:41:21. > :41:24.course of the next Parliament. By 2020? The draft figures that came
:41:25. > :41:27.out last week for the last year show the policies taken forward by
:41:28. > :41:31.Theresa May in part when she was Home Secretary as well as Prime
:41:32. > :41:37.Minister are working. We've seen an 85,000 fall in the last year alone.
:41:38. > :41:41.This is building on the work we've done, change how social housing is
:41:42. > :41:48.allowed and upskilling people here to take on these jobs. How long will
:41:49. > :41:53.that take. You talk about this upskilling, how long will that take?
:41:54. > :41:57.The upskilling of the British population when you'll remove EU
:41:58. > :42:01.immigrants? This is a holistic approach. We are not just
:42:02. > :42:05.controlling our borders but also having that industrial strategy. We
:42:06. > :42:09.bring in apprenticeships. How long will it take? The benefit we're
:42:10. > :42:15.already seeing, more and more people getting into work. Two million
:42:16. > :42:18.people into the economy... I'm talking about reduction in
:42:19. > :42:21.immigration. We've seen 8 a,000 fall in the last year alone. The British
:42:22. > :42:27.people want to see a Government that is clearly looking to deal with this
:42:28. > :42:31.issue. That's... What is extraordinary is they slay they'll
:42:32. > :42:36.bring it down to 10,000 within five years. Mrs May's been the Home
:42:37. > :42:43.Secretary for six years and has failed repeatedly year after year.
:42:44. > :42:48.Why not do something in relation to non-EU immigration which is well
:42:49. > :42:53.over 100,000 net at the moment? As you know full well, Charlie, you
:42:54. > :42:57.were overtalking me earlier on, this is a Home Secretary who's you is
:42:58. > :43:03.down 900 bogus colleges offer the nine years. Has it brought numbers
:43:04. > :43:07.down? Yes, it is. If you look at the figures just last week aLen, it is
:43:08. > :43:10.down 85,000 just last year alone because of the work done over the
:43:11. > :43:14.last few years that is now flowing through. There is always more to do.
:43:15. > :43:19.We cant to tackle this challenge. It is not clear in the Labour
:43:20. > :43:23.manifesto. Developing and implementing fair immigration rules.
:43:24. > :43:32.No-one can disagree with that. Depends what you mean by clear. Has
:43:33. > :43:36.Labour got a clear, identifiable stance on immigration? You stop
:43:37. > :43:43.people coming from the E. Without any proper basis. You said you would
:43:44. > :43:48.be prepared to have seasonal workers coming in. They are unskilled.
:43:49. > :43:55.Aagree. That is a basis. What about other sectors? Equal numbers coming
:43:56. > :43:57.in on retail. Hospitality? Our policy is you identify what the
:43:58. > :44:01.needs of the economy are in a particular... The needs could be
:44:02. > :44:06.300,000 and you would be happy with that? You have to try to reduce free
:44:07. > :44:10.movement of the labour. What's coming at the moment are people
:44:11. > :44:14.coming for work and people who have no job. I think it will be reduced.
:44:15. > :44:18.I don't know by how much. You're saying tens of thousands in five
:44:19. > :44:25.years' time? Over the course of the Parliament. By 2022, that's at
:44:26. > :44:29.guarantee. EU or non-EU? Mying Gration levels coming down to
:44:30. > :44:33.sustainable levels, tens of thousands over the next Parliament.
:44:34. > :44:42.You will be held to account over that issue? That's in our manifesto.
:44:43. > :44:45.Labour wants tariff-free trade but won't advocate membership of the
:44:46. > :44:51.customs Euanen. Free movement will end. How is your position any
:44:52. > :44:56.different to Brandon's? We want a close re-Laoisship with the EU. If
:44:57. > :45:01.the Government stays in power, how can you expect to have a close
:45:02. > :45:05.relationship with the EU when Mrs May's language about how she will
:45:06. > :45:10.deal with the EU is one of hostility and confrontation? She accused... In
:45:11. > :45:13.policy terms, that's not a difference. Having a close
:45:14. > :45:18.relationship or less close, these are words. In terms of policies, how
:45:19. > :45:22.is the Labour position in terms of Brexit negotiations any different to
:45:23. > :45:26.the Conservatives? We will do everything we can can to get an
:45:27. > :45:31.greechlt. It is very like lie will be different in result. That's the
:45:32. > :45:35.key thing that matters. You can get completely tariff-free trade and not
:45:36. > :45:41.have freedom of the movement? We've said specifically we're not having
:45:42. > :45:46.freedom of movement. We'll aim for a tariff-free deal. They won't give it
:45:47. > :45:50.to us? No, we'll have to negotiate it. You've admitted there is no
:45:51. > :45:53.policy difference between what the Conservatives are trying to get in
:45:54. > :45:58.these Brexit negotiations and what you're doing. It is difficult to
:45:59. > :46:00.tell, Jo, the Tories are so vague about how they'll conduct these
:46:01. > :46:10.negotiations I think there's a big difference.
:46:11. > :46:13.Compared to what Corbyn and his ministers say and what is in the
:46:14. > :46:16.shadow manifesto and he has said he does not be with everything in it so
:46:17. > :46:19.it is whether you can deliver. Theresa May from the beginning has
:46:20. > :46:22.been clear as Prime Minister that she wanted to do with Europe and I
:46:23. > :46:26.think we can get a good deal, and optimistically about free trade for
:46:27. > :46:31.this country. But he said about it is worse than no deal. Labour's plan
:46:32. > :46:34.for the immigration go up and Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott have said
:46:35. > :46:36.that themselves but she wants a deal which is good for us and our
:46:37. > :46:45.partners in Europe, working together to get a good deal because these are
:46:46. > :46:48.partners we want to trade with as was dreading globally so to suggest
:46:49. > :46:51.otherwise is misleading. And that we have to call it a day. Thank you for
:46:52. > :46:52.joining us, Brandon, and Theresa May has just about to begin her speech!
:46:53. > :46:53.Timing is everything. Now, in the run-up to election day
:46:54. > :46:56.we've been talking to each of the five largest parties
:46:57. > :46:58.in Northern Ireland. Today we're joined by
:46:59. > :47:00.Colum Eastwood, leader of the SDLP, the Social Democratic and Labour
:47:01. > :47:08.Party. Thank you for joining us. Three of
:47:09. > :47:12.the largest Northern Irish parties are opposed Brexit, which he painted
:47:13. > :47:16.as the major issue at this election. Why should people choose your party
:47:17. > :47:20.over the others? Of course, the SDLP is the most pro-European party in
:47:21. > :47:26.Ireland, probably on these islands. We always pro-Europe, whereas Sinn
:47:27. > :47:30.Fein, the other pro-European party now, were not pro-Europe until a
:47:31. > :47:34.couple of months ago, even just a year ago, before the referendum,
:47:35. > :47:39.they did not campaign against Brexit as part of the referendum but we are
:47:40. > :47:43.glad now that they are on our side. We were the party coming up with the
:47:44. > :47:46.answers around ideas or special status, using the Good Friday
:47:47. > :47:49.agreement to protect our interests, the customs union and the single
:47:50. > :47:53.market status for our businesses and people. So the SDLP have a very
:47:54. > :47:58.strong and proud record on Europe. The other thing is, we will actually
:47:59. > :48:02.turn up to Westminster and vote and speak and be counted when it comes
:48:03. > :48:05.to the debates on Brexit as we go through these negotiations. How many
:48:06. > :48:11.seats do you think you will get? What will be a successful result for
:48:12. > :48:13.you? Let's see, I don't do predictions, we have three seat at
:48:14. > :48:17.the minute and we would like to retain those three otherwise our
:48:18. > :48:24.main opponents in most of those constituencies are either the DUP
:48:25. > :48:28.who will be cheerleaders for Theresa May or Sinn Fein, who are abstention
:48:29. > :48:30.is the MPs and will not turn up at all. If Sinn Fein get their way, we
:48:31. > :48:32.will end up with a situation where there will not be an Irish
:48:33. > :48:35.nationalist representation in Westminster at all. That would be a
:48:36. > :48:38.very bad thing. You are calling for a referendum on Irish unity after
:48:39. > :48:43.Brexit. You say a border poll is no longer solely the project of Irish
:48:44. > :48:45.nationalism but a pro-European internationalism but isn't that
:48:46. > :48:50.something you want to be true rather than something with any real
:48:51. > :49:00.evidence behind it? Well, first what I said is that the border poll is
:49:01. > :49:02.part of the Good Friday agreement, we wrote it into the Good Friday
:49:03. > :49:05.agreement and we recognise it should not happen right now. We think what
:49:06. > :49:07.we have to do right now is first of all get the Northern Ireland
:49:08. > :49:10.institutions up and running, deal with the issues around Brexit and
:49:11. > :49:13.then look at the border poll after that has settled. But to allow work
:49:14. > :49:15.on the Brexit committee and our work with partners in Dublin and Europe,
:49:16. > :49:18.we have made sure that the European Union and the British government
:49:19. > :49:22.have now recognised that a united Ireland would automatically mean
:49:23. > :49:25.entering the European Union, that is unique situation because of the Good
:49:26. > :49:30.Friday agreement and the principles within. But it's not happening at
:49:31. > :49:33.the moment, you would accept? No, we know there's an enormous amount of
:49:34. > :49:35.work to do and we're not saying it should happen right away, we are
:49:36. > :49:40.saying it should happen in a positive and democratic way, to
:49:41. > :49:42.ensure that Unionism feels part of the positive, democratic
:49:43. > :49:45.conversation but we have a significant change in Northern
:49:46. > :49:49.Ireland which means because of the work of the SDLP, it is now about
:49:50. > :49:53.re-entering the European Union and I think that changes the debate from
:49:54. > :49:58.being a very narrow debate to a much broader debate that I think makes a
:49:59. > :50:01.border poll much more winnable for a nationalist perspective. Let me ask
:50:02. > :50:04.you about Jeremy Corbyn, your partner is a traditional sister
:50:05. > :50:09.party to the Labour Party so would you be happy to work with him in
:50:10. > :50:12.Parliament? Yes, we have already and with other parties. If the polls are
:50:13. > :50:16.right, we could end up having to work with a number of parties,
:50:17. > :50:19.including the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the green party and we would be very
:50:20. > :50:23.open to a progressive alliance to try to make sure we don't have a
:50:24. > :50:27.Tory government who don't seem to have any interest in protecting the
:50:28. > :50:30.interests of people in Ireland. They don't seem to have any interest in
:50:31. > :50:33.trying to avoid a hard Brexit which would mean a hard border for our
:50:34. > :50:37.people and businesses of this island. Of course, we will work with
:50:38. > :50:39.a progressive alliance to try to make sure we get a very different
:50:40. > :50:41.type of outcome from Brexit. Thank you for joining us.
:50:42. > :50:44.Now our guest of the day, Charlie Falconer, used to be
:50:45. > :50:46.a member of Jeremy Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet.
:50:47. > :50:48.Many were surprised he agreed to serve as Shadow Justice Secretary,
:50:49. > :50:51.considering he and Mr Corbyn come from very different places
:50:52. > :50:59.Then last June, after a year in post, he resigned -
:51:00. > :51:01.along with 18 of his cabinet colleagues, warning that Labour
:51:02. > :51:04.would "be left for dead" if it failed to unite
:51:05. > :51:07.So how does Tony Blair's former flatmate feel
:51:08. > :51:15.How do you feel? Have you changed your mind, have you had to review
:51:16. > :51:20.your thoughts and feelings about Jeremy Corbyn? He the leader of the
:51:21. > :51:24.Labour Party. I know that. We are committed other party to doing our
:51:25. > :51:28.best to win this election. But you have not changed your personal view
:51:29. > :51:30.about Jeremy Corbyn? He's performed incredibly well in the course of
:51:31. > :51:34.this general election campaign and the difference between him and
:51:35. > :51:41.Theresa May is marked, he is calm and clear and brave and I think is
:51:42. > :51:43.connecting particularly with young people and particularly with people
:51:44. > :51:45.who have not voted before. I mentioned it before on the programme
:51:46. > :51:49.and it was interesting to see the response he got as he arrived at the
:51:50. > :51:51.Cambridge debate yesterday. There are still big policy difference
:51:52. > :51:55.between you and him and his supporters, you supported the war in
:51:56. > :51:59.Iraq, a war he opposed and has said was illegal. Last week in a speech
:52:00. > :52:04.days after the Manchester attack, he suggested it contributed to the risk
:52:05. > :52:09.of terror attacks here in the UK. Do you accept that? I don't think the
:52:10. > :52:21.attacks in Manchester were caused by either the Iraq
:52:22. > :52:24.war or anything the British government did. So you disagree with
:52:25. > :52:27.Jeremy Corbyn? In relation to that, there would be a different emphasis,
:52:28. > :52:29.yes. Because he said the foreign policy of Tony Blair and other
:52:30. > :52:32.governments, like the one you are part of God is in some way linked to
:52:33. > :52:35.being a recruiting Sergeant for people who go on to commit attacks?
:52:36. > :52:39.He has said that and we would both be, Jeremy and I, completely united
:52:40. > :52:43.in saying it is an abomination, what happened in Manchester... Everyone
:52:44. > :52:48.agrees that. And we would also agree to other things, in so the security
:52:49. > :52:50.services, the police, army and intelligence services, need
:52:51. > :52:54.additional resources, they should be provided and we also agree that in
:52:55. > :52:57.relation to anti-terrorist measures in legislation, there should be
:52:58. > :53:01.appropriate judicial oversight. But you did not vote against the
:53:02. > :53:06.terrorist legislation, and he did, he voted against every single one
:53:07. > :53:10.and was the right to do that? I think he was wrong in relation to
:53:11. > :53:20.particular issues but he has made clear subsequently he is not against
:53:21. > :53:22.the state having those powers. But he's voted against all the
:53:23. > :53:24.legislation in the past? He said because he thinks there was
:53:25. > :53:26.inadequate judicial oversight. But he's voted against lots of
:53:27. > :53:30.organisations people would generally think are pretty dreadful being
:53:31. > :53:33.prescribed? Was he right? We disagreed at the time, but the
:53:34. > :53:37.question now is do I agree, it is not of interest to the electorate
:53:38. > :53:42.but what is my position in relation to the manifesto? I support it. Was
:53:43. > :53:47.it appropriate for Jeremy Corbyn to make that political speech so soon
:53:48. > :53:51.after the Manchester attack? It is right he should express his views in
:53:52. > :53:58.relation to it. He has got to be straightforward with the British
:53:59. > :54:00.public and they have to make a judgment about that. I don't think
:54:01. > :54:02.it is wrong on an issue of such grievous significance to the nation,
:54:03. > :54:05.namely the abominable attacks in Manchester, that the Leader of the
:54:06. > :54:09.Opposition in the middle of a campaign, should not set out his
:54:10. > :54:13.views. He was right to do so. Let's talk about the nuclear deterrent,
:54:14. > :54:17.Jeremy Corbyn's position is very clear but he has said if he becomes
:54:18. > :54:20.Prime Minister, his government will conduct a comprehensive defence
:54:21. > :54:24.review and that would also take into account the renewal of Trident
:54:25. > :54:28.nuclear deterrent, which of course, Mr Corbyn is very clear he does not
:54:29. > :54:32.support and therefore, could once again be in doubt. Are you
:54:33. > :54:34.comfortable with that? My understanding is that the review
:54:35. > :54:40.will not consider the question of whether or not Trident... That is
:54:41. > :54:44.not clear at all because it will include everything, that is what
:54:45. > :54:49.Jeremy Corbyn has said and he is the leader of the party. I am relying on
:54:50. > :54:53.what Nia Griffiths said. Using the shadow defence spokesman has a
:54:54. > :54:56.clearer view than the leader of the party? My understanding is it is
:54:57. > :55:00.accepted by the leader of the party that Trident is accepted by the
:55:01. > :55:03.Labour Party and that is what the manifesto says. In a recent
:55:04. > :55:10.interview, Michael Vick Andrew Neil asked on whether the defence review
:55:11. > :55:13.would include Trident? Jeremy Corbyn said it would look at the role of
:55:14. > :55:17.nuclear weapons as well as a reading which means it will be included.
:55:18. > :55:22.Well, we can debate the small print, my position is that I am in favour
:55:23. > :55:26.of retaining Trident. That is the position of the Labour Party in
:55:27. > :55:29.terms of policy. I understand Jeremy Corbyn access that so I don't think
:55:30. > :55:34.there is a difference between us, despite what you are saying. The
:55:35. > :55:37.public record suggest that during the Troubles, Jeremy Corbyn met
:55:38. > :55:40.members of the IRA, which I'm sure you know, on several occasions. He
:55:41. > :55:44.says he was working for peace rather than honouring the armed struggle
:55:45. > :55:47.but Seamus Mallon, one of the architects of the peace process,
:55:48. > :55:50.said he never heard anyone mention Corbyn in the peace process and that
:55:51. > :55:56.he clearly took the side of the IRA which was incompatible with working
:55:57. > :55:59.for peace. In your mind, because you know Jeremy Corbyn and have known
:56:00. > :56:03.him for a long time, did he play a role in the peace process? I don't
:56:04. > :56:08.know in relation to any of that. I'm absolutely sure that Jeremy wanted
:56:09. > :56:11.peace so I can't comment on the detail. Let's look at some of the
:56:12. > :56:14.domestic policy commie called the idea of bringing the national grid
:56:15. > :56:17.into public ownership going too far, saying that it would involve vast
:56:18. > :56:20.expenditure when there are so many other things we should be spending
:56:21. > :56:25.money on. You say you are supporting the Labour manifesto so you have
:56:26. > :56:29.changed your mind? I support the thrust of the manifesto, the precise
:56:30. > :56:36.detail of whether or not... This is not detail, this is a big policy,
:56:37. > :56:39.renationalising utilities. And for example, renationalising the
:56:40. > :56:43.railways, I would be strongly in favour of that. Are you in favour of
:56:44. > :56:47.public ownership of the national grid? I think it is something for
:56:48. > :56:50.much later, not necessarily straightaway. All the polling
:56:51. > :56:54.companies have Labour on a high share of the vote than they scored
:56:55. > :56:56.at the 2015 general election so despite the warnings from you and
:56:57. > :57:01.others in the party, it suggests Jeremy Corbyn is more popular with
:57:02. > :57:10.the public than Ed Miliband, does that surprise you? I think the
:57:11. > :57:13.public have gone quite a long journey and what they are thinking
:57:14. > :57:15.at the moment is that it is a choice between the Tories and Labour, and
:57:16. > :57:18.what life would be like. People remember how bad things have been in
:57:19. > :57:20.the 1980s under the Tories and this government has been in power
:57:21. > :57:23.effectively for seven years and they are absolutely fed up with the
:57:24. > :57:27.continuation of unnecessary austerity. Does it surprise you that
:57:28. > :57:32.Jeremy Corbyn could poll better in terms of national vote share than Ed
:57:33. > :57:35.Miliband? No it doesn't because the choice as it emerged in this
:57:36. > :57:39.election was not ultimately about Brexit because I think people think
:57:40. > :57:43.we have made our decision as a country about that, the choice is
:57:44. > :57:47.between Theresa May leading the Tory party and Jeremy Corbyn leading the
:57:48. > :57:51.Labour Party and I think the public are now making up their mind which
:57:52. > :57:54.of the two they want and the other interesting thing that has happened
:57:55. > :57:57.in the election is the smaller parties have been pushed to the
:57:58. > :58:02.side. It is a big choice. Quickly because we're coming up, tuition
:58:03. > :58:05.fees, the manifesto commitment, ?11 billion to abolish them and you are
:58:06. > :58:16.part of the government that introduced it, is it the right
:58:17. > :58:18.policy to abolish them? You need to to see the effect on the public
:58:19. > :58:21.finances. That has been done. Looking at the effect on the public
:58:22. > :58:23.finances, it is a possible policy. I'm not opposed to it as part of the
:58:24. > :58:23.overall package. Now, as part of the BBC's general
:58:24. > :58:26.election coverage, our very own Andrew is talking to the main party
:58:27. > :58:28.leaders in in-depth interviews. Tonight, it's the turn
:58:29. > :58:31.of the Liberal Democrat leader. with Tim Farron
:58:32. > :58:34.tonight at 7pm on BBC One. That's all for today.
:58:35. > :58:43.Thanks to our guests. Particularly to Charlie Falconer for
:58:44. > :58:46.being the guest of the day. You said there had been an earthquake in the
:58:47. > :58:49.Labour Party when Mr Corbyn was elected, do you think it marked the
:58:50. > :58:56.end of the Blairite Iraq? It certainly did! -- Blairite era.
:58:57. > :58:59.And Andrew will also be back again tonight with This Week on BBC One
:59:00. > :59:04.As voters prepare to go to the polls
:59:05. > :59:12.the Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron joins me