:00:37. > :00:39.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:40. > :00:42.The Conservative candidate Craig Mackinlay is charged
:00:43. > :00:45.following an investigation into 2015 election expenses.
:00:46. > :00:51.The Prime Minister confirms that the Conservatives will aim
:00:52. > :00:54.to bring net migration down to the tens of thousands by 2022.
:00:55. > :01:00.But is it a firm promise, a mere ambition, or just a pipe dream?
:01:01. > :01:02.Jeremy Corbyn says a Labour government would create a million
:01:03. > :01:05."good jobs" if his party wins power next week, and promises
:01:06. > :01:08."to rebuild communities that have been left behind".
:01:09. > :01:12.We speak to a shadow business minister.
:01:13. > :01:15.And Tim Farron promised a fightback for his party.
:01:16. > :01:19.We travel to the former Lib Dem heartlands in the south west to find
:01:20. > :01:26.I think this is the part where I make the joke about how
:01:27. > :01:34.the party could fit all its MPs in that beach hut!
:01:35. > :01:38.All that in the next hour, and with us for the whole
:01:39. > :01:40.programme today Toby Young, associate editor of The Spectator,
:01:41. > :01:42.and the journalist and film-maker, Paul Mason.
:01:43. > :01:49.Some breaking news this morning:
:01:50. > :01:53.The Conservative parliamentary candidate, Craig Mackinlay,
:01:54. > :01:56.who stood against Nigel Farage in the last general election,
:01:57. > :01:58.has been charged over allegations relating to his election expenses.
:01:59. > :02:00.The Crown Prosecution Service has announced that Mr Mackinlay,
:02:01. > :02:03.along with two other people, has been charged after
:02:04. > :02:09.an investigation into 2015 general election campaign expenses.
:02:10. > :02:38.The Conservative Party has released this response to the news...
:02:39. > :02:44.We talk now to our Home Affairs correspondent Danny Shaw.
:02:45. > :02:54.Give us the background to this? This all relates to campaign spending by
:02:55. > :02:57.the Conservatives before the 2015 general election. There are very
:02:58. > :03:03.strict limits on what each political party can spend locally. They have
:03:04. > :03:07.to declare those spending is with Morrissey and declare what they
:03:08. > :03:11.spent as part of the broader, national campaign. It is a very
:03:12. > :03:14.complicated set of rules and regulations and there are strict
:03:15. > :03:19.penalties if those rules are not adhered to. What happened in the
:03:20. > :03:25.South Thanet seat, very contested seat in Kent, where Nigel Farage of
:03:26. > :03:30.Ukip was up against Craig Mackinlay for the Conservatives, is a team of
:03:31. > :03:35.Conservative Party workers was based at hotels in the area for some of
:03:36. > :03:40.the campaign. They racked up thousands of pounds in expenses. The
:03:41. > :03:44.question that Kent Police, investigating this, and the CPS
:03:45. > :03:48.assessing the case had to determine is whether these expenses were
:03:49. > :03:55.properly declared locally or whether they were national expenses, part of
:03:56. > :03:58.the national campaign, should they have been included in the local
:03:59. > :04:05.party spending returns? And if so, did it constitute an offence? The
:04:06. > :04:10.CPS has decided today that three party members, Craig Mackinlay, with
:04:11. > :04:14.standing again, Nathan Grey, his agent and a party worker should be
:04:15. > :04:21.charged in connection with a number of allegations under the people act,
:04:22. > :04:28.in relation to the decorations they made about the party spending in the
:04:29. > :04:31.area. Right, let's hear the reaction from Nigel Farage, you mentioned,
:04:32. > :04:38.when he heard the news about the charges. What does it mean? Well,
:04:39. > :04:42.effectively what it means in our constituency is whilst his name will
:04:43. > :04:46.stay on the ballot paper, I think the chances of people voting for him
:04:47. > :04:49.are now very slim. I think that constituency will be a straight
:04:50. > :04:52.fight now between Ukip on the Labour Party and I will be there tomorrow
:04:53. > :04:56.afternoon, giving a speech at five o'clock to support our candidate.
:04:57. > :05:03.Nigel Farage there. What happens now? What happens now is the three
:05:04. > :05:07.people who have been charged will appear at Westminster Magistrates'
:05:08. > :05:09.Court on the 4th of July. As we've heard from the Conservatives, they
:05:10. > :05:14.are very confident that these allegations will turn out to be not
:05:15. > :05:18.proven against them. In the meantime, Craig Mackinlay is
:05:19. > :05:22.standing in the seat at the election next Thursday. There is nothing in
:05:23. > :05:27.law that prevents him from standing. He is innocent until proven guilty.
:05:28. > :05:30.None of the offences have been proven against him, so he will carry
:05:31. > :05:35.on standing in that seat. What effect it has on the election in the
:05:36. > :05:40.area or more broadly, I suppose, we will have to wait and see. Clearly
:05:41. > :05:43.this isn't news perhaps that the Conservatives wanted at this
:05:44. > :05:46.particular time, but there is nothing to stop Craig Mackinlay
:05:47. > :05:49.standing in that seat next Thursday. Thank you.
:05:50. > :05:52.The Conservatives have now promised that they will meet their target
:05:53. > :05:54.of cutting net migration to less 100,00 people per year by the end
:05:55. > :05:57.of the next Parliament if they win the election.
:05:58. > :05:59.The Prime Minister said they will hit the immigration target
:06:00. > :06:02.by 2022, and they've denied there is any confusion
:06:03. > :06:05.after ministers appeared to have slighty different takes
:06:06. > :06:08.Speaking to me yesterday, Conservative minister Brandon Lewis
:06:09. > :06:10.pledged they would hit that target in five years.
:06:11. > :06:16.You're saying tens of thousands in five years' time?
:06:17. > :06:18.Over the course of the Parliament, yes.
:06:19. > :06:20.Right, so by 2022, that's the guarantee.
:06:21. > :06:22.EU and non-EU, down to tens of thousands?
:06:23. > :06:25.We want to see migration levels come down to sustainable levels,
:06:26. > :06:28.which we think is tens of thousands, over the course of the next
:06:29. > :06:30.Parliament, yes, I've been very clear with it.
:06:31. > :06:33.So the electorate will be able to hold you to account
:06:34. > :06:39.However, the Brexit Secretary David Davis appeared on Question Time last
:06:40. > :06:41.night and gave a slightly more cautious answer, saying the Tories
:06:42. > :06:44.would aim to hit the target in five years but could not promise
:06:45. > :06:50....Slowly, but it's got to be managed carefully.
:06:51. > :06:53.I just want to clarify this, I do think it's Tory party policy,
:06:54. > :06:55.if you're re-elected as the government next Thursday,
:06:56. > :06:59.to get it down to 100,000 within the five years of parliament?
:07:00. > :07:09.No, to get it down, it's the aim, yes but we can't
:07:10. > :07:14.So what are the positions of each of the main parties when it
:07:15. > :07:17.The Conservative manifesto pledges to reduce immigration to sustainable
:07:18. > :07:20.levels in the tens of thousands, and to place tighter
:07:21. > :07:24.Labour reject setting a target figure but promise "reasonable
:07:25. > :07:27.management" of migration, and they would remove students
:07:28. > :07:32.Ukip pledge to reduce net migration to zero
:07:33. > :07:38.While The Lib Dems say immigration is "essential
:07:39. > :07:42.to our economy and a benefit to our society".
:07:43. > :07:44.Meanwhile, the SNP want immigration powers devolved
:07:45. > :07:46.to Scotland so they can have different rules to
:07:47. > :08:02.To be young, what do you understand by the conservative commitment here,
:08:03. > :08:07.to bring down net migration to tens of thousands, will it be hit by 2022
:08:08. > :08:11.or an aspiration Marcelo and ambition rather than a promise and
:08:12. > :08:15.whether it is achieved partly hinges on what Brexit till we get. I don't
:08:16. > :08:19.think it's very sensible for Labour to try and turn this into a row
:08:20. > :08:25.because Labour doesn't have any ambition to reduce immigration at
:08:26. > :08:30.all. They would argue they say is unachievable. It was in 2010 first
:08:31. > :08:34.of all, and a coalition government and the subsequent Tory government
:08:35. > :08:40.have absolutely failed to meet it. It is achievable if we get a good
:08:41. > :08:45.Brexit deal. By 2022? Gas. And it seems less likely if Jeremy Corbyn
:08:46. > :08:49.is negotiating rather than Theresa May. Diane Abbott, due to be hon
:08:50. > :08:55.Secretary of labour win next week, has said she thinks freedom of
:08:56. > :09:00.movement is an inalienable human rights. It seems inconceivable
:09:01. > :09:04.migration will fall if Labour are elected next week. What is the point
:09:05. > :09:07.of setting a target that even ministers themselves can't agree
:09:08. > :09:12.whether it is achievable by 2020 to one not? I don't think they want to
:09:13. > :09:17.be tied to it because it hinges on what sort of deal be Prime Minister
:09:18. > :09:20.and her team managed to negotiate. Is not just tied to the Brexit deal,
:09:21. > :09:24.they made that commitment before we had an EU referendum and still
:09:25. > :09:29.failed to meet it. They will be able to meet if they get a good Brexit
:09:30. > :09:34.deal. With Theresa May negotiating, we have every chance. Labour doesn't
:09:35. > :09:37.even have any aspirational aim to do anything about immigration. Is that
:09:38. > :09:41.because, rightly or wrongly, they want to keep freedom of movement and
:09:42. > :09:45.immigration high? You say they don't have an aspiration to do anything
:09:46. > :09:49.about immigration, that's not true. They want to play set on a fair
:09:50. > :09:55.basis, commensurate with the strategy they have with negotiating
:09:56. > :09:58.a Brexit deal that allows access to the single market. When we were
:09:59. > :10:01.covering the Brexit referendum, I was covering for Channel 4, again
:10:02. > :10:05.and again people who wanted to come out of Europe would say to you, I'm
:10:06. > :10:10.not bothered about the numbers, it's the principle is that I'm bothered
:10:11. > :10:14.about, that everybody can come, that everybody can immediately have
:10:15. > :10:20.access to the NHS and education system. I think the power of saying
:10:21. > :10:25.let's elaborate the principle, the fair system. The numbers come
:10:26. > :10:30.second. It's also true that the Tories recognise, I agree with David
:10:31. > :10:36.Davis on this, a ?6 billion hit to the economy from achieving that
:10:37. > :10:39.target is something you want to weigh up, you want to be careful
:10:40. > :10:47.about the way you achieve it. And businesses know you can't achieve it
:10:48. > :10:49.in the radical and sort of rhetorical way that the Tory right,
:10:50. > :10:54.the anti-immigration xenophobes want. The problem is you say you
:10:55. > :10:58.understood when you spoke to people about what they wanted in terms of
:10:59. > :11:01.taking back control, and they weren't so bothered about the
:11:02. > :11:04.numbers, do you think there are still many people in Britain who
:11:05. > :11:08.would like to see the numbers come down, that's what they understood by
:11:09. > :11:16.taking back control? Yes, I think there. Can they commit to doing
:11:17. > :11:19.that? No, because there are also people, fair-minded people who may
:11:20. > :11:22.have voted Conservative or Ukip in the last election, who understand if
:11:23. > :11:25.you deal with the principle, that is more sensible than setting an
:11:26. > :11:28.arbitrary target. It's possible we get half a million Brits coming back
:11:29. > :11:33.from Spain that blows the target out of the water. Paul has clarified
:11:34. > :11:40.what Labour's policy is on this. I don't speak for Labour. It sounds
:11:41. > :11:43.like Labour's policy when it goes into the Brexit negotiations will be
:11:44. > :11:50.to stay in the single market, even if that means... They want to end
:11:51. > :11:53.freedom of movement. You can't stay in the single market and do that.
:11:54. > :11:58.The single market is a priority for them. Will people believe them? Not
:11:59. > :12:02.long before Jeremy Corbyn said Labour isn't wedded to freedom of
:12:03. > :12:07.movement as a point of principle, but I don't want that to be
:12:08. > :12:13.misinterpreted. Personally years in favour of it. Let's explain what it
:12:14. > :12:16.is, it's a qualified right, not an inalienable right of workers,
:12:17. > :12:22.whether Diane Abbott said it or not. Legally it is a qualified right. It
:12:23. > :12:25.is one of the four pillars. If we come out of Europe it will end.
:12:26. > :12:29.There will be a fair migration system. I hope that system does
:12:30. > :12:35.involve fewer low paid agency workers coming in. I think the
:12:36. > :12:37.Cabinet Office, they didn't put it in the manifesto, are discussing
:12:38. > :12:40.trying to create a floor for salaries on which you can exercise
:12:41. > :12:45.your freedom of movement. I would favour that. But both Labour and the
:12:46. > :12:50.Conservatives have said that they do still need low skilled workers to
:12:51. > :12:52.coming to Britain. Even Andrea Leadsom is reported to be seeking
:12:53. > :12:58.assurance for farmers and agricultural services. Because it is
:12:59. > :13:01.good for the economy. In the end it will be hard to keep that commitment
:13:02. > :13:05.to reducing or completely cutting on skilled workers coming in from the
:13:06. > :13:08.EU. I am not sure we will need more than tens of thousands of net
:13:09. > :13:14.migrants to pick apples once we've left the EU. That is just one
:13:15. > :13:19.sector. Just to be clear, if keeping freedom of movement is a condition
:13:20. > :13:22.of staying in the single market, that's what you choose? It is a
:13:23. > :13:28.condition and that is why Labour is seeking access to the single market
:13:29. > :13:30.and not membership to it. Everyone can have access but tariff free is
:13:31. > :13:31.what both parties say. Yesterday, a well known political
:13:32. > :13:35.power couple took to social media to post a picture of their feet
:13:36. > :13:38.as they lay in bed. So the question for today
:13:39. > :13:44.is whose feet are they? Is it: A) Emanuel Macron
:13:45. > :13:48.and Brigitte Trogneux? At the end of the show,
:13:49. > :13:57.our very own political power couple, Paul and Toby, will hopefully give
:13:58. > :14:01.us the correct answer. Who knows, maybe they'll
:14:02. > :14:06.post a picture of their The Prime Minister has
:14:07. > :14:11.told President Trump that she is disappointed
:14:12. > :14:13.by his decision withdraw the US That was the agreement that saw
:14:14. > :14:17.almost 200 countries, including the world's biggest
:14:18. > :14:19.polluters, agree on a need to cut Yesterday Mr Trump explained his
:14:20. > :14:24.decision, arguing the deal put At what point do they start
:14:25. > :14:35.laughing at us as a country? At what point does
:14:36. > :14:36.America get demeaned? At what point do they start
:14:37. > :14:39.laughing at us as a country? We want fair treatment
:14:40. > :14:42.for its citizens, and we want fair We don't want other leaders
:14:43. > :14:51.and other countries laughing at u s any more, and they won't be,
:14:52. > :14:55.they won't be. I was elected to represent the
:14:56. > :15:05.citizens of Pittsburgh - not Paris. And we're joined now
:15:06. > :15:07.by the Liberal Democrat, Ed Davey, who served as the Secretary of State
:15:08. > :15:18.for Energy and Climate Change under Welcome to the Daily Politics.
:15:19. > :15:24.Donald Trump was elected on a promise to do exactly this, using
:15:25. > :15:28.the line at the end of that clip, so should we be surprised he's
:15:29. > :15:31.fulfilling a campaign promise? Not surprised that more than
:15:32. > :15:35.disappointed. He is letting down his own people. He is lying to them
:15:36. > :15:39.saying that the climate change agreement is going to hurt American
:15:40. > :15:43.industry. More than twice as many people work in the solar industry as
:15:44. > :15:47.the coal industry and that's the growing industry and the growth jobs
:15:48. > :15:51.for America, just like elsewhere, are in the clean tech, the green
:15:52. > :15:56.energy sector, and so he has sold them a live and unfortunately is
:15:57. > :16:03.delivering on it. It's bad economic and science. The Paris deal is a
:16:04. > :16:07.voluntary deal, isn't it? The USA can stay committed to the agreement
:16:08. > :16:11.if they choose to without actually fulfilling its pledge to limit
:16:12. > :16:15.emissions? Could it remain as part of the Paris agreement and still
:16:16. > :16:19.broker it? But look what he's doing from the environmental pictures
:16:20. > :16:25.agency policy outwards? They are pulling back on the commitments
:16:26. > :16:30.Barack Obama gave to take action in America and given the USA represents
:16:31. > :16:34.15% of global greenhouse gases, the second largest polluter after China,
:16:35. > :16:38.they have to act for the world are to succeed in tackling climate
:16:39. > :16:42.change and he is going back on that and also on America's help to other
:16:43. > :16:47.countries, developing countries, who needs support about Britain, Germany
:16:48. > :16:51.and other countries are giving so he is really undermining the global
:16:52. > :16:56.effort on climate change and we stood speak out loud and hard
:16:57. > :17:00.against this American betrayal. Why is he undermining the rest of the
:17:01. > :17:06.world in terms of what they do to reduce green gas emissions because
:17:07. > :17:09.just because he is pulling out, it was a voluntary deal anyway, why
:17:10. > :17:14.should it affect the rest of the world? Not in sense of our actions,
:17:15. > :17:20.we should keep acting and do far more than the Conservative
:17:21. > :17:24.Government was doing however because they represent so much of the
:17:25. > :17:28.world's greenhouse gases, we need them to act. This is a global
:17:29. > :17:33.problem, you can't act alone of. That the whole reason why we had an
:17:34. > :17:37.agreement in the UN so everybody was playing their fair share and
:17:38. > :17:42.America, as one of the largest polluters in the world and the
:17:43. > :17:45.richest, should play its part. It has reduced its emissions in the
:17:46. > :17:54.last few years. But not by nowhere near enough. 3%. That is tiny. What
:17:55. > :18:01.has the EU done with its emissions? Our target in 2020 was 20% and I
:18:02. > :18:07.think it's about 24%. We are aiming and I'm negotiated a deal that we
:18:08. > :18:11.should reduced by at least 40% by 2030, far more ambitious than the
:18:12. > :18:18.USA, so we have been playing a leadership role in the UK until the
:18:19. > :18:23.Conservatives took power and rolled back on the action. China and India
:18:24. > :18:27.are now acting, so America is isolating itself fulfil the only
:18:28. > :18:38.other counties opted out our Syria, Nicaraguan and do we think the USA
:18:39. > :18:43.is in this position when science is worrying about the planet. Should
:18:44. > :18:52.Theresa May take a tougher line? Saying she's disappointed. It's a
:18:53. > :18:55.secondary benefit. She has had a telephone conversation with him and
:18:56. > :19:01.expressed her disappointment at his actions. Two but this context, the
:19:02. > :19:04.Paris Accord is a very weak agreement that doesn't commit any of
:19:05. > :19:10.its signatories to meeting any particular target. It was seen as a
:19:11. > :19:13.ground-breaking agreement. True, and it's disappointing Donald Trump have
:19:14. > :19:19.pulled out but last March he said America was not going to meet its
:19:20. > :19:27.voluntary target of reducing carbon dioxide emissions by 26%. It would
:19:28. > :19:31.be meaningful, not just a symbolic gesture, if it meant other countries
:19:32. > :19:36.withdrawing to but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. There
:19:37. > :19:41.could be a domino effect, we have to wait and see, but is Donald Trump
:19:42. > :19:45.entitled to put America first and American jobs first even if it won't
:19:46. > :19:50.actually have that effect? As long as the understands we are laughing
:19:51. > :19:55.at him and his country and their appalling broken politics. He
:19:56. > :20:01.doesn't care. He may not care but those coalminers will care because
:20:02. > :20:05.they love the earth more than they love mining coal, but this will have
:20:06. > :20:10.domestic repercussions because businesses are looking for a
:20:11. > :20:17.long-term regulatory signal. The Tory Government of 2015 preferred
:20:18. > :20:22.fracking. It's quite clear Theresa May, if she wins, will prefer
:20:23. > :20:26.fracking and carbon emissions. They will be the soft underbelly of Paris
:20:27. > :20:30.and they will predict if it gets tough under Brexit, they are the
:20:31. > :20:33.next ones who will go. You will stay with us.
:20:34. > :20:36.Now, it can be a harsh master, democracy, and no party has learned
:20:37. > :20:38.that lesson more brutally in the last couple of years
:20:39. > :20:42.Since their loss of dozens of seats in 2015, Tim Farron has promised
:20:43. > :20:47.So we sent our Adam to the one-time party stronghold in the southwest
:20:48. > :20:53.South Devon - great for holiday-makers,
:20:54. > :20:58.Here in the land of beaches, ice creams model villages,
:20:59. > :21:01.the Liberal Democrats used to be totally dominant, but at the last
:21:02. > :21:04.election they lost all of the 15 seats they held in the south-west
:21:05. > :21:12.So, how's that Lib Dem fightback going?
:21:13. > :21:16.Their plan to win here is to oppose changes to NHS services and pensions
:21:17. > :21:19.proposed by the Tories and to fight Brexit.
:21:20. > :21:24.Down on the prom, it turns out they win some, they lose some.
:21:25. > :21:27.We both work at Torbay Hospital, as part of the nursing team,
:21:28. > :21:29.and the Conservative government are crippling us.
:21:30. > :21:33.So you would quite like an alternative?
:21:34. > :21:35.I would definitely like an alternative.
:21:36. > :21:38.The Lib Dems' whole thing is about being anti-Brexit.
:21:39. > :21:44.Well, I'm for Brexit, so that sums it up!
:21:45. > :21:46.There's no way they could win you over?
:21:47. > :21:51.Well, I used a vote for them, but I don't any more.
:21:52. > :21:55.Because Theresa May is a far stronger candidate to get
:21:56. > :21:57.the proper Brexit for us, I feel.
:21:58. > :22:02.And there's one thing some people here really don't like the look of -
:22:03. > :22:05.Lib Dem policy on a different kind of weed.
:22:06. > :22:08.I used to quite like them, but now I don't approve with the cannabis
:22:09. > :22:18.Drugs are bad, in whatever form, and it leads to other things,
:22:19. > :22:22.and I just think a lot of older people, especially, are going to be
:22:23. > :22:29.Do you think this is the Lib Dems' south-west battle bus?
:22:30. > :22:38.I think this is the part where I make the joke about how
:22:39. > :22:41.the party could fit all its MPs in that beach hut...
:22:42. > :22:44.But, how do voters see the Lib Dem leader?
:22:45. > :22:49.Let's ask at the beach, conveniently named after one of his rivals.
:22:50. > :22:55.Tim Farron, the leader of the Lib Dems.
:22:56. > :22:58.Well, he's the leader of the Lib Dems.
:22:59. > :23:03.Oh, I thought he'd done something nasty or something.
:23:04. > :23:06.He's an interesting fellow, and I quite like him.
:23:07. > :23:11.I don't know if he's strong enough, but I just, I was very impressed
:23:12. > :23:15.with the way he answered this chap on TV, who was extremely rude.
:23:16. > :23:21.So, in this lush corner of England, there's good news and bad
:23:22. > :23:29.for the Lib Dems on their long march back to where they were.
:23:30. > :23:40.The hash tag doesn't seem to have been a roaring success in the
:23:41. > :23:45.south-west and looking at the polls, I know they're not always right, but
:23:46. > :23:52.it is because your anti-Brexit in south-west London, our stance is
:23:53. > :23:57.going really well. Lets talk about the south-west because they can't
:23:58. > :24:01.talk about individual places. A la opposition to the mid-dementia tax
:24:02. > :24:06.is urging people to supporters now because they realise Theresa May's
:24:07. > :24:09.social care policy will hit a lot of people who worked and saved hard.
:24:10. > :24:14.You will look at our support for getting more support in the health
:24:15. > :24:19.service by putting a penny on income tax, they see that as a credible
:24:20. > :24:24.policy. Is that overshadowed to some extent, I'd take your point, that
:24:25. > :24:29.the much bigger overarching message right from the start from the Lib
:24:30. > :24:32.Dems, rightly or wrongly, was your firm stance against Brexit, wanting
:24:33. > :24:36.to stay in the single market and wanting a second referendum which
:24:37. > :24:40.the people said they don't support? The people in that film may not but
:24:41. > :24:46.many others do like our policy. In the south-west. On Brexit? Some
:24:47. > :24:51.people believe we should remain in the EU, it's good for jobs, the
:24:52. > :24:57.economy, young people, but the campaign isn't just about Brexit.
:24:58. > :25:02.Let's be clear. Tim Farron made his very, very firm stance on it. We are
:25:03. > :25:05.very proud of being a pro-European party believe it's right to
:25:06. > :25:09.co-operate with our neighbours and we don't like the hostility coming
:25:10. > :25:13.from the Conservative Party to people who are friends across
:25:14. > :25:17.Europe. If you just look of the numbers of people who voted remain,
:25:18. > :25:23.and everyone can see why the Lib Dems, it's consistent with what you
:25:24. > :25:27.said about Europe, and 48%, if we can garner support from that number
:25:28. > :25:30.we will do well in the general election. The problem is a
:25:31. > :25:33.proportion of those people have now accented Brexit and moved on and
:25:34. > :25:37.therefore you have lost what would've been support. This is why
:25:38. > :25:44.it's not just about Brexit because a lot of those people, who are remain
:25:45. > :25:48.voters, are also worried about the unfair and uncaring dementia tax of
:25:49. > :25:52.the Conservatives, about health cuts, cuts to their schools, and
:25:53. > :25:58.they know across the south-west in places like North Devon North
:25:59. > :26:02.Cornwall and Dorset, the Lib Dems are the challenges to the Tories so
:26:03. > :26:07.if you want to vote for investment in health service, this outrageous
:26:08. > :26:15.inheritance tax on low and modest income people, you have got to vote
:26:16. > :26:18.Lib Dem. The Conservatives have committed to increase spending on
:26:19. > :26:22.health service in real terms by 8 billion a year by 2022, so to claim
:26:23. > :26:26.they are proposing to cut the NHS is a flat-out fake news. It's not
:26:27. > :26:30.because the pressures on the health service, as you ought to know, with
:26:31. > :26:36.the ageing population and the increased population, will overcome
:26:37. > :26:41.that increase and that's why the Lib Dems say, on top of the base... The
:26:42. > :26:47.Conservative pledge is to increase it per person in real terms. In the
:26:48. > :26:53.health service? It's calculated per head of the British population. That
:26:54. > :26:57.does not do the ageing population. You are failing to one slight
:26:58. > :27:01.problem. That's why the Lib Dems believe we need extra money. That's
:27:02. > :27:08.the social care policy would you have just crashed. That is to do
:27:09. > :27:11.with the ageing population. It will hit loads of people in the
:27:12. > :27:16.south-west of England who have properties you could be worth
:27:17. > :27:20.?400,000, modest properties, and lower middle incomes, and you are
:27:21. > :27:24.putting an inheritance tax meant for the wealthy on ordinary people,
:27:25. > :27:28.quite a scandal, ordinary people who are unlucky enough to see their
:27:29. > :27:32.relatives have care for ten years because they have dementia will now
:27:33. > :27:38.pay tax higher than the wealthy, typical of the Tory party. The Lib
:27:39. > :27:43.Dems want it both ways. Your leading... Ed, you have to go back
:27:44. > :27:49.on the campaign trail, thank you for coming in. We will come back to the
:27:50. > :27:52.social care policy and U-turn but let's go back to the core of the
:27:53. > :27:59.discussion at the beginning. Do you think the Lib Dems made a mistake
:28:00. > :28:03.focusing their campaign on Brexit? I think politics and political
:28:04. > :28:06.leadership is about being a learning organisation. I don't think they
:28:07. > :28:13.made a mistake to think of as a strong suit for them because there,
:28:14. > :28:16.the urban celeriac, south-west London, it's not the only place, who
:28:17. > :28:20.would like a second referendum and would like to stop Brexit. The
:28:21. > :28:25.problem is, they have to interface with other ordinary people who have
:28:26. > :28:30.moved on and I think what the Lib Dems haven't learned is this is not
:28:31. > :28:34.playing in the election and my biggest disappointment with Tim
:28:35. > :28:38.Farron as a leader is his inability to learn from the interactions with
:28:39. > :28:40.the public, that they have moved on from Brexit, they do care
:28:41. > :28:45.passionately about what Ed Davey is talk about, the dementia tax, and
:28:46. > :28:50.the Lib Dems are doing us a disservice by failing to challenge
:28:51. > :28:54.the Tories. Actually, on the policy of social care you were debating
:28:55. > :28:59.with Ed Davey, that is given the Lib Dems and other opposition parties an
:29:00. > :29:04.opportunity because of the about-face Theresa May was forced to
:29:05. > :29:08.make. And opportunity they don't appear to have exploited. Let's not
:29:09. > :29:13.forget that there will be a cap on the contribution. There is now but
:29:14. > :29:21.we don't know what it is. People will be able to keep ?100,000 of
:29:22. > :29:27.their home value. To be confirmed, much of their manifesto is TBC. To
:29:28. > :29:37.be confirmed. Yes, it will be a garden tax. It is fake news, a life.
:29:38. > :29:43.Fake news. Hang on. Call out the fake news now. So it's OK to
:29:44. > :29:45.describe something as a dementia tax? Gentlemen, we are going to move
:29:46. > :29:49.onto a different subject, jobs. Now, the Labour party have said
:29:50. > :29:51.that their plan for Britain's economy will create a million jobs
:29:52. > :29:53.and drive growth. The Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn
:29:54. > :29:56.was in York this morning giving a speech on Labour's industrial
:29:57. > :29:59.strategy, he said he would work to make Britian's energy systems 60%
:30:00. > :30:01.renewable by 2030 and had this to say about the state
:30:02. > :30:05.of the UK's jobs market. I've seen an economy
:30:06. > :30:09.that is grossly imbalanced. Talk to people and you'll understand
:30:10. > :30:14.the consequences of this problem. London overheats, and the cost
:30:15. > :30:17.of living there rises, while communities in too much
:30:18. > :30:20.of the rest of the country have seen their local
:30:21. > :30:23.economies hollowed out, industries decline
:30:24. > :30:28.and stable jobs gone. Right across our country too many
:30:29. > :30:31.people are trapped in precarious, low-paid work, while a few
:30:32. > :30:37.at the top get much richer. And joining me now is
:30:38. > :30:50.Labour's Shadow Industrial Strategy She is in York. One of your flagship
:30:51. > :30:54.policies is raising corporation tax by 7% to 26% to fund public
:30:55. > :30:57.services. This means hundreds of thousands of businesses will have
:30:58. > :31:02.less money to spend on creating jobs. So in fact, your plan will
:31:03. > :31:09.hurt jobs. Our plan, the industrial strategy
:31:10. > :31:14.we've announced today, is about creating 1 million good jobs across
:31:15. > :31:19.the UK and using our industrial strategy to do that. On the point of
:31:20. > :31:22.the corporation tax, what we're doing is we are restoring
:31:23. > :31:29.corporation tax still to less than the levels it was when Labour left
:31:30. > :31:34.and to lessen the levels of almost every other country. In the United
:31:35. > :31:38.States, corporation taxes at 39%, for example. What we are saying
:31:39. > :31:42.here, and this is the perfect riposte to Donald Trump, who argues
:31:43. > :31:47.that withdrawing from the Paris climate agreement is about
:31:48. > :31:50.protecting jobs, we are showing that by decarbonising our energy
:31:51. > :31:56.production we can create jobs. And not just any jobs, good jobs, not
:31:57. > :31:59.minimum wage jobs, jobs that pay a proper wage on jobs people can be
:32:00. > :32:05.proud of. That is what this country needs. Except they will have less
:32:06. > :32:08.money, of course, businesses, if you're going to tax them heavily
:32:09. > :32:14.they will have less money. Whatever you do with that money is up to the
:32:15. > :32:22.Labour Party. Hang on... You mustn't look at this as a zero sum game. A
:32:23. > :32:26.growing economy, so they won't have, they won't have less money. But I am
:32:27. > :32:29.looking at the policy in isolation because this is what you're talking
:32:30. > :32:33.about, it's an important policy anew flagged it up because you want to
:32:34. > :32:37.fund public services with it. The Institute for Fiscal Studies says
:32:38. > :32:40.plan will raise less money in the medium to long term, because
:32:41. > :32:44.companies will choose not to invest in the UK. This isn't me, this is
:32:45. > :32:49.the Institute for Fiscal Studies, who say that your plans, your fiscal
:32:50. > :32:52.plans are overly optimistic and will put companies off investing in the
:32:53. > :33:00.UK, which means you won't be able to create those jobs. Our plans are
:33:01. > :33:04.fully costed, and in costing them we've taken allowance for
:33:05. > :33:08.behavioural change as a consequence of the changes to the taxes that we
:33:09. > :33:13.will be making specifically for corporation tax. But much of our
:33:14. > :33:16.plan we are announcing today is actually funded by our national
:33:17. > :33:20.transformation fund and national investment bank. The creation of a
:33:21. > :33:27.national investment bank will have regional offices, including a bank
:33:28. > :33:32.of the North, which will encourage investment in small and medium
:33:33. > :33:36.businesses across our countries, -- country, which will address... We
:33:37. > :33:40.have the most regionally imbalanced economy among the major economies
:33:41. > :33:46.and we need to get that right, because it's holding back the
:33:47. > :33:52.potential of cities like York, of our nations and regions. Our people,
:33:53. > :33:56.our employers are being held back by a lack of investment, a lack of
:33:57. > :34:01.investment in skills. We have one of the worst productivity rates in the
:34:02. > :34:04.developed world. Isn't that to do with levels of high employment?
:34:05. > :34:09.Listening to you and Jeremy Corbyn, you would think we are in the midst
:34:10. > :34:14.of a massive unemployment crisis. Actually implement is at a record
:34:15. > :34:17.high and we have the lowest youth unemployment in Europe. So are you
:34:18. > :34:25.trying to fix something that isn't broken? You talk to people in
:34:26. > :34:30.Newcastle, across the country, they haven't had a pay rise... That is
:34:31. > :34:35.different. We will come onto wages in a minute. We're talking about
:34:36. > :34:41.creating jobs and we have very high employment levels. You accept that?
:34:42. > :34:45.6 million people are in work and they are not in a job that pays them
:34:46. > :34:52.a living wage. They cannot live from their work. We are recreating,
:34:53. > :34:55.rebuilding the working poor. This strategy is about ensuring that
:34:56. > :35:00.those who are in work, that work pays and they can have work they are
:35:01. > :35:04.proud of. Let's talk about wages. That is a problem, they have
:35:05. > :35:10.stagnated for years since the financial crash. Hasn't she got a
:35:11. > :35:14.point that the jobs being created, the jobs miracle Tories are talking
:35:15. > :35:19.about, yes people are white, but it's not enough to help them live in
:35:20. > :35:23.a way that you wore I would like to. It is true wages have stagnated
:35:24. > :35:25.since the financial crash, but that was a global financial crash and
:35:26. > :35:29.that has happened all over the developed world, not just in the UK.
:35:30. > :35:33.You are quite right to point out that under the last Labour
:35:34. > :35:38.government in 2010, after 13 years of Labour being in office,
:35:39. > :35:42.unemployment at 8%, it's now about 4.5%. Unemployment among young
:35:43. > :35:44.people was a million when Labour left office now less than half a
:35:45. > :35:58.million. Labour's industrial strategy is
:35:59. > :36:00.nonsense. There are economic policy, as before, is tax and spend. Why is
:36:01. > :36:03.it nonsense? They said they wanted to nationalise the gas, electricity
:36:04. > :36:05.and water industries. That will cost roughly 200 billion. Where will they
:36:06. > :36:09.find the money? Labour's industrial strategy is to plant money trees on
:36:10. > :36:14.an industrial scale. It's about creating jobs, investing around the
:36:15. > :36:18.country, not just London and the south-east, that's not nonsense. The
:36:19. > :36:24.northern powerhouse was the Conservative policy. We have just
:36:25. > :36:27.seen mayors elected in Birmingham and Manchester, that's hardly a
:36:28. > :36:31.Labour Party policy. No one has any confidence in the Labour Party's
:36:32. > :36:42.ability to grow the economy. The deficit was over 150 billion and now
:36:43. > :36:45.it is half of that. In terms of trust in the economy, that is a
:36:46. > :36:49.problem for Labour. For all policies people may regard as sensible and
:36:50. > :36:54.may lead to growth in the economy, they still don't trust Labour to do
:36:55. > :36:57.it. I have to say, that's not what I found on the doorstep. People have
:36:58. > :37:02.sensible questions about where the money comes from to pay for the
:37:03. > :37:08.fiscal muck... What about the ISS saying... They are a very respected
:37:09. > :37:12.spreadsheet organisation for adding up whether or not people's
:37:13. > :37:18.commitments and tax-raising seriously add up but they have a
:37:19. > :37:23.wrong-un model of the macro economic star Nymex of this country. With
:37:24. > :37:27.respect to them, it would be equally possible to get expert opinion to
:37:28. > :37:30.back up what Labour says. On this question of a national industrial
:37:31. > :37:35.strategy, I think it is important... People like me have been saying for
:37:36. > :37:37.years it's not easy to do national industrial strategy but desperately
:37:38. > :37:42.desired that all parties get their heads around how we do it. Because
:37:43. > :37:46.after Brexit, Brexit will happen, the world will be reshaped. The
:37:47. > :37:50.market doesn't solve it. The government needs to shape the market
:37:51. > :37:56.and encourage investment in high quality employment and high-value
:37:57. > :37:59.business. If we don't, it will go to Ireland, it will go to an
:38:00. > :38:05.independent Scotland, if that takes place. In terms of corporation tax,
:38:06. > :38:15.we have a lower corporation tax than the rest of the G7. Look what
:38:16. > :38:17.attracts. Investment. There is very little high-value investment coming
:38:18. > :38:23.to the United Kingdom because they prefer where places where people
:38:24. > :38:30.feel happy in their skins and we haven't given international
:38:31. > :38:34.business... Let me go finally back to Chi Onwurah. An zero hours
:38:35. > :38:38.contracts. McDonald's carried out a survey of its employees, it wanted
:38:39. > :38:41.to offer all of them the chance to go on to fixed term contract and a
:38:42. > :38:49.significant number of them said, we would like to stay on flexible
:38:50. > :38:54.contracts. What do you say to that? Our manifesto says quite clearly our
:38:55. > :38:58.industrial strategy is we will abolish zero hours contracts but
:38:59. > :39:02.retain the ability for flexible employment, which is at the control
:39:03. > :39:09.of the employee. I know from talking, I know you cannot plan for
:39:10. > :39:14.their parental duties, for looking for other jobs it is absolutely
:39:15. > :39:22.destroying many lives, zero hours contracts badly implemented. Also
:39:23. > :39:28.making people invest in employees, to have a proper contract, to have
:39:29. > :39:30.proper investment, to have a proper education service which ensures
:39:31. > :39:38.working people also can have access to education and skills, improve
:39:39. > :39:44.productivity, create jobs and have an ecomony that works for many and
:39:45. > :39:47.not this view. The ONS carried out a survey and discovered two thirds of
:39:48. > :39:53.the people on zero hours contracts like being on zero hours contracts.
:39:54. > :39:58.They like flexibility. That includes a 60 or so people employed by Labour
:39:59. > :40:01.Party MPs on zero hours contracts. Chi Onwurah, thank you.
:40:02. > :40:04.Now, in the run-up to election day we've been talking to each
:40:05. > :40:06.of the five largest parties in Northern Ireland.
:40:07. > :40:08.Yesterday we spoke to the SDLP and today we're joined
:40:09. > :40:15.Welcome to the Daily Politics. You traditionally don't take your seats
:40:16. > :40:22.in Westminster. Remind viewers of why. We refuse to take an oath of
:40:23. > :40:29.allegiance to any monarch in those circumstances. We also believe, and
:40:30. > :40:35.the evidence shows us, a collection of nationalist Irish MPs... We want
:40:36. > :40:41.to see power devolved to Ireland, devolved institutions working on
:40:42. > :40:46.Ireland and reunification of the island of Ireland. At your manifesto
:40:47. > :40:50.launch and said the Conservatives want to force Northern Ireland into
:40:51. > :40:54.a disastrous Brexit. Would you consider taking your seats in order
:40:55. > :40:58.to get Jeremy Corbyn over the line in the event of a hung parliament?
:40:59. > :41:04.That scenario will not arise. Regardless of the outcome of the
:41:05. > :41:08.election. We will see this day next week what the outcome is. We will
:41:09. > :41:13.not be taking an oath. Even if it allows the Conservatives to enforce
:41:14. > :41:16.what you called a disastrous Brexit? I think the scenario that will
:41:17. > :41:19.develop, and this will be well discussed, if there is a hung
:41:20. > :41:23.parliament in that sense, those discussions will take place between
:41:24. > :41:30.the Labour and Scottish Nationalist party, Labour and other individual
:41:31. > :41:34.political parties. Jeremy Corbyn is on record as saying he would try to
:41:35. > :41:37.form a minority government. Your leader said this election is very
:41:38. > :41:41.much about taking an anti-Brexit stance. To accept if the
:41:42. > :41:44.Conservatives win, and if they win with a reasonable majority, they do
:41:45. > :41:49.have a mandate for the Brexit they are planning? Let me be clear about
:41:50. > :41:52.this. If the people of England and Wales wish to leave the European
:41:53. > :41:57.Union, I wish them well. We want to see a stable economy on the island
:41:58. > :42:02.of Britain because we trade with it and rely on that trade for Roma
:42:03. > :42:06.economic well-being, on the entire island of Ireland. People in north
:42:07. > :42:10.of Ireland voted to stay in the EU. We are the only part of what is
:42:11. > :42:15.known as the UK that will have a border with the European state. If
:42:16. > :42:18.an economic border is placed on Northern Ireland as a result of
:42:19. > :42:25.Brexit it will damage our economy, the economy in Ireland... I don't
:42:26. > :42:30.think it does anyone any favours. Our peace process was the
:42:31. > :42:35.recognition of the Democratic voices on Ireland. The first major test of
:42:36. > :42:39.that has been Brexit. We voted to remain, we expect that vote to be
:42:40. > :42:46.respected by which ever government comes into power in Westminster next
:42:47. > :42:50.week. As you outlined, your commitment to remaining part of the
:42:51. > :42:54.EU, your manifesto also calls for Irish unity and a referendum on that
:42:55. > :42:58.in the next five years. Is that really the way to get Unionists on
:42:59. > :43:04.site, with whom you obviously share views on Brexit, public spending and
:43:05. > :43:12.so on? As I said at the start of the interview, we are a Republican party
:43:13. > :43:15.and we believe in the unification of the island... If you're talking
:43:16. > :43:19.about this election and you are worried about Brexit, shouldn't you
:43:20. > :43:23.be trying to get people to vote for you, who will further those more
:43:24. > :43:28.immediate concerns? I think in terms of the vote that lies ahead, people
:43:29. > :43:32.already know Sinn Fein's position, it's no secret to them.
:43:33. > :43:35.Reunification is an answer to Brexit. We have also put forward a
:43:36. > :43:47.very detailed document in relation to designated plans for the
:43:48. > :43:52.relationship with the EU. We have put proposals and alternatives
:43:53. > :43:55.forward to the Irish government and the British government and to other
:43:56. > :44:01.European states. As the Brexit negotiations outlined or roll on,
:44:02. > :44:11.there will be a form of Brexit across these islands. We believe we
:44:12. > :44:13.can shape that Brexit on the island of Ireland to sort the people of
:44:14. > :44:18.Ireland. Nobody wants a border on that happen, are you addressing a
:44:19. > :44:25.problem everybody agrees about? With respect, Theresa May has come out
:44:26. > :44:28.with many warm words about the island of Ireland in terms of no
:44:29. > :44:35.hard border, frictionless border... Issue being untruthful? I follow her
:44:36. > :44:39.policies, policies are to the single market and the customs union. If
:44:40. > :44:43.she's fill those policies, there has to be a border on the island of
:44:44. > :44:46.Ireland because the border will be with another European state and not
:44:47. > :44:49.only with the European state but with the entire European Union. That
:44:50. > :44:52.that will be part of the negotiations and she has made it
:44:53. > :44:58.very clear she doesn't want the border. We also accept her intended
:44:59. > :45:01.and stated policies mean no border on the island of Ireland is a
:45:02. > :45:04.fantasy, if Shiva fills her objective of leaving the customs
:45:05. > :45:08.union and single European market, Theresa May can have all the warm
:45:09. > :45:12.words she wants but her policies direct us towards a border on the
:45:13. > :45:17.island of Ireland. Whether it is hard or soft or frictionless it will
:45:18. > :45:21.be an economic border. Currently billions of pounds of trade crossed
:45:22. > :45:24.that border on a monthly basis. Currently carried free. If we leave
:45:25. > :45:28.the customs union and the single European market there will be
:45:29. > :45:35.tariffs on those goods. How do feel the turmoil in politics in Northern
:45:36. > :45:37.Ireland will affect the result? The institutions collapsed over
:45:38. > :45:42.allegations of corruption at the highest levels of government, but
:45:43. > :45:44.behind that was also the backdrop of Brexit. Brexit has caused major
:45:45. > :45:51.difficulties in our political institutions here, denying
:45:52. > :45:55.democratic rights to many people has caused problems for our political
:45:56. > :45:58.institutions but we are committed to re-entering negotiations to restore
:45:59. > :46:02.those institutions. We believe they are important and people want those
:46:03. > :46:07.institutions. They want to be governed by local politicians. That
:46:08. > :46:10.is our objective after the elections, to deal with the
:46:11. > :46:11.political difficulties in and around our institutions but we still have
:46:12. > :46:15.to deal with Brexit. Thank you. In a typical election campaign,
:46:16. > :46:17.the air is thick with numbers. Politicians of all parties use them
:46:18. > :46:21.as ammunition to help win our votes whether they're claiming
:46:22. > :46:23.a particular policy has helped millions of families or promising
:46:24. > :46:25.billions of pounds in spending. But increasingly, claims like these
:46:26. > :46:28.are coming in for more scrutiny. Now, to help us tell
:46:29. > :46:30.the difference between cold, hard facts and more spurious
:46:31. > :46:33.statistics, we can speak to David Spiegelhalter,
:46:34. > :46:35.President of the Royal Statistical He's on College Green
:46:36. > :46:48.with our reporter Emma Vardy. Of course the old cliche says there
:46:49. > :46:54.are lies, dam lies and statistics, so that's why we need people like
:46:55. > :46:57.this and the professor has taken a look at some of the claims made
:46:58. > :47:01.during the campaign and where you say we need to look little more
:47:02. > :47:06.closely. Thanks very much. Let's look at net migration, an important
:47:07. > :47:11.topic for the Conservatives and that is running at 250,000 last year, the
:47:12. > :47:16.latest figures, the number of people coming in mine as a number of people
:47:17. > :47:20.going out but we need to take that number apart. It's quite
:47:21. > :47:26.compensated. Among British, there are 60,000 leaving the country than
:47:27. > :47:30.coming in to live and among EU migrants, 133,000 extra coming in
:47:31. > :47:36.but non-EU, the biggest contribution, 175,000. We add those
:47:37. > :47:42.numbers up together. If we aim, as the Tories say, to get below 100,000
:47:43. > :47:46.in a certain amount of time which is not click on which of these will
:47:47. > :47:51.change? We assume all of these will go down. But, in order to get to
:47:52. > :47:58.under 100,000, it will need more than just this to change, either
:47:59. > :48:00.more Brits will have to leave, or or restriction on non-EU migrants, and
:48:01. > :48:06.these tend to be skilled people and students who can commit to the
:48:07. > :48:11.economy. This is not the main contribution. Let's take a look at
:48:12. > :48:16.one of the claims made by Labour. The party says inequality is
:48:17. > :48:22.growing, the gap between the rich and poor is widening. What do
:48:23. > :48:28.numbers tell us? How do you measure inequality? And a large population
:48:29. > :48:35.of people? The LFC use a complicated formula shown inequality rising
:48:36. > :48:40.through the 1980s and then being stable and then reducing over the
:48:41. > :48:45.last few years, people getting less unequal. It seems to go against it.
:48:46. > :48:48.If we use a slightly different survey, the index wobbles stable,
:48:49. > :48:55.and if we use a different measure, the ratio of what the richest 10% in
:48:56. > :49:04.compared to what the poorest 10% own, that has been getting worse. It
:49:05. > :49:09.depends which statistic we use. We have seen a lot more fact checking
:49:10. > :49:14.features on websites and news programmes so has that made parties
:49:15. > :49:18.any more careful or honest about how they present figures? I think it's a
:49:19. > :49:25.fantastic development and is made people more cautious. We have the
:49:26. > :49:29.educational data lab, an organisation which took about the
:49:30. > :49:31.claims about how much it would cost to provide free school breakfasts
:49:32. > :49:37.for everyone so this is making people more cautious, particular as
:49:38. > :49:42.we have seen for the first time the numbers being challenged live on
:49:43. > :49:47.here. For your average voter who may not have a Ph.D. In statistics, what
:49:48. > :49:52.is the best way to tell fact from fiction? It's very difficult and I
:49:53. > :49:57.find it difficult myself but we need to be suspicious when people try to
:49:58. > :50:01.reduce a subtle complex issue like migration and inequality to a single
:50:02. > :50:06.number. That can be very misleading indeed. Beware of those sweeping
:50:07. > :50:11.claims? And targeting a single statistic. Thank you for joining us.
:50:12. > :50:16.Let's look at what's been happening elsewhere on the campaign with our
:50:17. > :50:22.daily round-up. You know that game we must speak without repetition,
:50:23. > :50:30.hesitation or deviation, politicians you might be surprised to find, are
:50:31. > :50:33.particular this, and here's our first contestant and their time
:50:34. > :50:36.starts now. I'm very clear that this
:50:37. > :50:38.is a crucial election... This Theresa May appearance
:50:39. > :50:40.in the south-west prompted the Plymouth Herald newspaper
:50:41. > :50:42.to claim it reminded them of a version of
:50:43. > :50:44.Radio 4's Just A Minute. A stronger, more
:50:45. > :50:45.prosperous future... "She had given me
:50:46. > :50:47.absolutely nothing"... Wrote the report
:50:48. > :50:48.after the interview. Talking to people with that
:50:49. > :50:52.very clear message... Turns out, getting inked wasn't
:50:53. > :50:55.to be for this Tory candidate On seeing what was on the window
:50:56. > :51:01.of this tattoo parlour Jacob Rees-Mogg remarked,
:51:02. > :51:03."We shall have to take our Last night's Tim Farron
:51:04. > :51:10.versus Andrew Neil match I want you to address
:51:11. > :51:13.this simple point... Well, I'm trying to get
:51:14. > :51:17.you to answer the question, That's exactly what I am
:51:18. > :51:21.trying to do, Andrew. Presenters can just never get a word
:51:22. > :51:26.in edgeways these days. And as Nigel Farage
:51:27. > :51:33.took to the streets One voter offered a few
:51:34. > :51:38.thoughts on foreign aid. If I was to do that in my house,
:51:39. > :51:42.give next-door neighbour Lily some Donald Trump's withdrawal
:51:43. > :51:47.from the Paris climate agreement prompted this
:51:48. > :51:51.from Jeremy Corbyn this morning. Donald Trump's decision to pull
:51:52. > :51:53.the United States out of the Paris climate change deal
:51:54. > :52:00.is reckless and dangerous. And why have a general election
:52:01. > :52:03.when this could all be sorted out With less than a week to go,
:52:04. > :52:08.the communications union reckons it's the last chance saloon
:52:09. > :52:11.for the likes of bumbling Boris Johnson and Amber
:52:12. > :52:28."the replacement" Rudd. Less than a week to go and we have a
:52:29. > :52:31.question Time debate this evening with Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
:52:32. > :52:39.What advice would you have for Jeremy Corbyn? Carry on looking
:52:40. > :52:43.prime ministerial, being honest with people, people like his honesty but
:52:44. > :52:47.I think he has do now go beyond where it looks like labour is now in
:52:48. > :52:52.the high 30s. He has to begin to appeal to appeal to people who voted
:52:53. > :52:55.Conservative in the last two elections. Is the problem he is
:52:56. > :53:00.appealing to its core vote and will only pilot votes in already fairly
:53:01. > :53:05.secure Labour areas? 50% Labour in London at the moment, that the
:53:06. > :53:11.danger, but I also think it's down to locality, parts of the country.
:53:12. > :53:14.East of the A1, it is the Brexit thing, the Ukip thing is still
:53:15. > :53:21.there, but I think, in middle England constituencies, which Labour
:53:22. > :53:27.are trying to win, we can't mention individual names but places in the
:53:28. > :53:31.East Midlands, on the doorstep, what you are hearing is the manifesto
:53:32. > :53:36.pledges, above all, it's like an old vinyl record you rediscover for the
:53:37. > :53:42.can nationalise things, we can spend money on the NHS. Baby boomers,
:53:43. > :53:50.people like that. It raises the question which Amber Rudd brought
:53:51. > :53:54.home, where is the magic money tree? It's in the Bahamas, the rich no
:53:55. > :54:01.where the money is, it's in offshore tax havens. This campaign is not
:54:02. > :54:05.gone to plan, let's put it that way, for the Tories, has it? But
:54:06. > :54:09.narrowing of the gap in the polls between Labour and the Conservatives
:54:10. > :54:14.actually helps the Conservatives for two reasons, first of all, it makes
:54:15. > :54:18.the risk of Jeremy Corbyn actually being in Downing Street next Friday
:54:19. > :54:23.real, it brings at home to people and that will bring out the Tory
:54:24. > :54:26.vote. Secondly, if Jeremy Corbyn does better than Ed Miliband did,
:54:27. > :54:32.not in terms of seats but in popular vote, the benchmark he and his team
:54:33. > :54:37.have set, around 30%, still not great but better than Ed Miliband,
:54:38. > :54:40.if they do that, the chances are Jeremy Corbyn will hang on or be
:54:41. > :54:44.replaced by someone very similar with the same sort of policies.
:54:45. > :54:49.That's good for the Tories because so long as Labour are led by Jeremy
:54:50. > :54:53.Corbyn or someone like him, the Labour Party is unelectable so if
:54:54. > :54:57.that is what the outcome is this general election, a large majority
:54:58. > :55:02.for Theresa May, Jeremy Corbyn is replaced by a clone, that is great.
:55:03. > :55:06.One problem has been making the whole campaign about leadership and
:55:07. > :55:09.being strong and stable and it has to some extent been the undoing of
:55:10. > :55:14.Theresa May and has played into Jeremy Corbyn? Let's see what
:55:15. > :55:18.happens next Thursday before entering on a postmortem but I think
:55:19. > :55:22.when people think who do we want negotiating on behalf of Britain in
:55:23. > :55:28.those difficult Brexit negotiations against 27 EU leaders, they would
:55:29. > :55:32.choose Theresa May? I think somebody who turns up. I think we want
:55:33. > :55:36.someone with moral courage because a strong and stable leader would have
:55:37. > :55:39.signed a joint declaration between the Italian Prime Minister and
:55:40. > :55:44.Angela Merkel last night, saying we reject what Donald Trump is done. I
:55:45. > :55:47.think people want a person with a moral centre to run this country and
:55:48. > :55:51.someone who has the courage to debate and answer journalists
:55:52. > :55:53.questions full from opposition politicians always have the
:55:54. > :55:59.advantage in not because they have nothing to lose. Theresa May has
:56:00. > :56:02.missed out on woman's hour, local radio interviews, and is there
:56:03. > :56:09.something wrong with that? Is she unwell? What is wrong with her? Are
:56:10. > :56:12.you really putting the question? She is being presidential but if you
:56:13. > :56:17.want to be presidential, we need answers as to why she is not turning
:56:18. > :56:22.up to these things? You are raising the Prime Minister's health as a
:56:23. > :56:26.question? What is wrong with Theresa May that you can't go live? She is
:56:27. > :56:33.doing a debate tonight with Jeremy Corbyn. They did it with Hillary
:56:34. > :56:38.Clinton so why not Theresa May? You have a blind spot on this. One of
:56:39. > :56:42.the reasons many traditional Labour voters can't bring themselves to
:56:43. > :56:47.vote for a Jeremy Corbyn Labour Party is pricey because they think
:56:48. > :56:50.he lacks the moral compass. Some of a moral compass would not have
:56:51. > :56:55.invited representatives of the IRA to party at the House of Commons
:56:56. > :57:01.days after they tried to kill Prime Minister this country, and describe
:57:02. > :57:06.a terrorist organisation like how Mass as his friends. It is the lack
:57:07. > :57:12.of a moral compass, someone would not have put Rees on the grave of
:57:13. > :57:19.one of the terrorists who killed the Israeli athletes at the Montreal
:57:20. > :57:22.Olympic Games. Does this go to the character of Jeremy Corbyn? For the
:57:23. > :57:27.millions of people who voted Labour all their lives, people who believe
:57:28. > :57:33.we are part of a movement at the very core and fabric of this
:57:34. > :57:36.democracy we live in, we feel utterly insulted by what you have
:57:37. > :57:45.just said. Why because it's not true? Is it true? Someone who
:57:46. > :57:53.supports terror. What you are trying to do here is Samir an entire half
:57:54. > :57:56.the UK as terrorists, culpable for Manchester -- smear. We are talking
:57:57. > :58:01.about the man who wants to be Prime Minister. Are the claim is true?
:58:02. > :58:12.None of it is to. He didn't meet members of the IRA, and Sinn Fein?
:58:13. > :58:20.Sinn Fein is a party. Margaret Thatcher negotiated with them. Not
:58:21. > :58:25.days after they tried to kill her. Margaret Thatcher negotiated with
:58:26. > :58:28.the IRA. Can I'd just say one final thing, in terms of the manifesto
:58:29. > :58:33.very briefly with Labour, is the problem Jeremy Corbyn does not
:58:34. > :58:35.believe what is in the manifesto and he has agreed to go with a
:58:36. > :58:42.collective view rather than his personal view? Jeremy Corbyn will
:58:43. > :58:48.lead a Government that will press the button if necessary and will do
:58:49. > :58:56.the things we are committed to. We are going to die but quickly to the
:58:57. > :59:05.quiz. Whose feet are in that poster? Sam Cam and David. How do you know?
:59:06. > :59:07.Well done, you are right. It is the Camerons who post with their feet.
:59:08. > :59:17.Particularly to you two for being our bests guests of the day.
:59:18. > :59:20.Andrew will be on BBC One on Sunday with Sunday Politics, where he'll be
:59:21. > :59:22.talking to former Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg.
:59:23. > :59:26.And I'll be here again on Monday for more Daily Politics -