:00:37. > :00:40.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:41. > :00:44.It's the first day back at school for MPs after the election.
:00:45. > :00:47.But with a hung parliament, could things start to get a little unruly
:00:48. > :00:51.The Prime Minister will welcome the leader of the Democratic
:00:52. > :00:55.Unionist Party to Downing Street shortly, to try to agree a deal
:00:56. > :00:58.to allow the Conservatives to govern as a minority.
:00:59. > :01:04.The leader of the Conservatives in Scotland, Ruth Davidson,
:01:05. > :01:07.says the party's approach to Brexit must change following the election.
:01:08. > :01:15.Parliament has 93 new MPs - a good number of whom didn't expect
:01:16. > :01:20.So what's it like taking a seat in Parliament for the first time?
:01:21. > :01:24.And it was a disappointing election night for Ukip,
:01:25. > :01:28.resulting in the resignation of their leader Paul Nuttall.
:01:29. > :01:36.We speak to one of those seeking to replace him.
:01:37. > :01:41.And with us for the whole of the programme today is the former
:01:42. > :01:42.leader of the Conservative Party, Michael Howard.
:01:43. > :01:53.First today, the leader of the Democratic Unionist Party,
:01:54. > :01:56.Arlene Foster, is due at Downing Street in the next half
:01:57. > :01:58.an hour or so, for talks about supporting a Conservative
:01:59. > :02:00.minority government on key government business.
:02:01. > :02:05.Eleanor Garnier is in Downing Street.
:02:06. > :02:13.Eleanor, what the are we expecting between the Conservatives and the
:02:14. > :02:18.Democratic Unionist Party? This is going to be a looser deal, if you
:02:19. > :02:24.like. It will not be a formal coalition like saw between the Lib
:02:25. > :02:28.Dems and the Conservatives. It will be a confidence and supply
:02:29. > :02:33.arrangement, where the DUP will agree to back the Conservatives on
:02:34. > :02:38.big votes like the Budget, like the Queen's speech. But after that,
:02:39. > :02:42.everything will be on an issue by issue, day by day basis. It will be
:02:43. > :02:50.a looser arrangement. Remember how much Theresa May needs this deal to
:02:51. > :02:55.be done. Without an overall majority she will not be able to govern. As
:02:56. > :02:59.for the DUP leader, Arlene Foster, she wants to return home showing she
:03:00. > :03:03.has got something out of this deal. An element about this will be a
:03:04. > :03:10.transaction, cash for votes, if you like, some sort of investment. There
:03:11. > :03:16.is a price Arlene Foster will want to extract from the Prime Minister.
:03:17. > :03:23.What about the issue of Brexit? The DUP have concerns about cross-border
:03:24. > :03:26.trade. Yes, the Brexit negotiations are something the leaders will be
:03:27. > :03:34.talking about at Number 10 in the next hour. Certainly the issue about
:03:35. > :03:37.the hard border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. The
:03:38. > :03:42.DUP don't want it. Theresa May doesn't want it. She has talked
:03:43. > :03:48.about having a frictionless border. The DUP wanted to be as flexible as
:03:49. > :03:51.possible. They do support Brexit, some of them enthusiastically so.
:03:52. > :03:56.This idea of putting the economy first and having continued access to
:03:57. > :04:01.people, workers, goods and services, that position from the DUP has
:04:02. > :04:05.given, I think, some of those in the Conservative Party who want the
:04:06. > :04:09.closest possible relationship with the EU, it has given them some hope.
:04:10. > :04:14.We are expecting Arlene Foster to arrive in the next half an hour. We
:04:15. > :04:17.did hear from Northern Ireland Secretary James Brokenshire this
:04:18. > :04:22.morning. He said things are looking positive than the expected deal to
:04:23. > :04:28.be done. Al, we will leave you to keep your eyes peeled. -- Eleanor.
:04:29. > :04:35.Michael Howard, did you think your party would be in this position
:04:36. > :04:39.before election night? No. How do you feel? I'm obviously
:04:40. > :04:46.disappointed. It was not the result I had hoped to see. Was it down to a
:04:47. > :04:49.disastrous campaign? It clearly wasn't a great campaign, but there
:04:50. > :04:54.is nothing to be gained by looking back. No doubt people can reflect at
:04:55. > :04:57.leisure on the lessons to be learned. I'm sure there are lessons
:04:58. > :05:04.to be learned. I'm more interested in the present and the future. There
:05:05. > :05:08.are lessons to be learned though, aren't there? The talks about to
:05:09. > :05:13.start between Theresa May and Arlene Foster, much of it will be about
:05:14. > :05:16.what price Arlene Foster wants to extract from Theresa May, including
:05:17. > :05:21.perhaps some of the austerity measures she may feel should come
:05:22. > :05:25.out of any legislative programme that the Conservatives want to put
:05:26. > :05:29.forward, like the social care policy, the Winter Fuel Payments cut
:05:30. > :05:34.in the Tory manifesto. While their mistakes in the campaign? Let's talk
:05:35. > :05:38.about the present and the future and what Arlene Foster may want. Let's
:05:39. > :05:44.wait and see. There is every prospect of a deal being reached
:05:45. > :05:48.today. I hope the deal is reached. We will have to wait and see how
:05:49. > :05:52.that deal plays out. We have been here before. This is not the first
:05:53. > :05:56.time that there has been a government which has not had an
:05:57. > :06:01.overall majority, which has been operating in a hung parliament and
:06:02. > :06:07.has had to do deals with minority parties. It has been quite a long
:06:08. > :06:09.time. The coalition was different. The coalition was completely
:06:10. > :06:15.different. I'm old enough to remember the days of Prime Minister
:06:16. > :06:22.Callinan. It is a long time ago. I'm getting on! That was the 1970s. You
:06:23. > :06:27.also remember from those days that they can pull the plug at any time
:06:28. > :06:34.here It is not an ideal situation. It is not where I hoped we would be.
:06:35. > :06:40.Are you comfortable with a relationship, even a confidence and
:06:41. > :06:45.supply relationship, with the DUP? They have ten elected members of
:06:46. > :06:49.Parliament to the UK Parliament. They are legitimately elected
:06:50. > :06:53.members of Parliament. If they are prepared to support us, yes. What
:06:54. > :06:59.about what they might want in return for supporting the legislative
:07:00. > :07:03.programme, the big financial, economic policies that a government
:07:04. > :07:07.has to get through Parliament to survive? What would you be prepared
:07:08. > :07:11.to give in terms of offering something to Arlene Foster? Since I
:07:12. > :07:16.know perfectly well that I know I'm not going to be in that position, it
:07:17. > :07:21.is something to which I have not given any thought. But there has to
:07:22. > :07:25.be support from her own Conservative party. There have to be some lines
:07:26. > :07:30.drawn. In terms of deficit reduction, are you prepared to see
:07:31. > :07:34.quite a bit of money go to the DUP? I'm prepared to leave these things
:07:35. > :07:37.do the good judgment of the Prime Minister. I'm sure she will have the
:07:38. > :07:40.support of all Conservative members of Parliament on the deal Bear Cheek
:07:41. > :07:49.will do with Arlene Foster this afternoon. Do you think she will
:07:50. > :07:54.stay on, Theresa May? I think she should stay. She has a duty and
:07:55. > :07:59.responsibility to stay. It would be immensely disruptive to Brexit
:08:00. > :08:02.negotiations if we had a very Conservative leadership contest are
:08:03. > :08:06.a general election while those negotiations are going on. We have
:08:07. > :08:12.heard from the EU negotiating team that they want a strong team from
:08:13. > :08:15.the UK with a mandate. There will be a strong team from the United
:08:16. > :08:19.Kingdom. He will not be negotiating with members of Parliament. He will
:08:20. > :08:24.not be negotiating with opposition parties. He would be negotiating
:08:25. > :08:27.with the Prime Minister and the Brexit secretary. They will be
:08:28. > :08:33.sitting on the other side of the table. She is weakened by the
:08:34. > :08:36.result. George Osborne called her a dead man walking. You don't want a
:08:37. > :08:41.leadership contest because you don't want to see Jeremy Corbyn of walking
:08:42. > :08:46.into Number 10, so you are prepared to stick with her because there is
:08:47. > :08:50.not a better option on the table? No, I want to stay because I think
:08:51. > :08:56.any kind of contest would be immensely disruptive to the
:08:57. > :09:00.negotiations Brexit. I think her MPs in Parliament should give her strong
:09:01. > :09:01.and full support. Signs are that is exactly what will happen.
:09:02. > :09:13.A new political drama will be coming to our screens this weekend.
:09:14. > :09:20.c) Meryl Streep as Margaret Thatcher.
:09:21. > :09:28.At the end of the show Michael will give us the correct answer.
:09:29. > :09:31.When Theresa May called the election, she said
:09:32. > :09:34.she needed a majority to be able to deliver Brexit and overcome
:09:35. > :09:38.As it was she ended up losing her majority, and will now
:09:39. > :09:43.But does this mean the government's approach to Brexit
:09:44. > :09:50.The Government's white paper on the Brexit plans included 12
:09:51. > :09:55.principles for the negotiation, with the focus on controlling
:09:56. > :09:58.immigration and leaving the Single Market, as well as leaving
:09:59. > :10:00.the Customs Union to strike free trade deals with
:10:01. > :10:07.Although a free trade deal with the EU was promised,
:10:08. > :10:12.Theresa May's view that "no deal is better than a bad deal" was also
:10:13. > :10:14.reflected in the manifesto, along with the continued commitment
:10:15. > :10:17.to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands.
:10:18. > :10:22.But after failing to win a majority, and the need
:10:23. > :10:24.to come to a deal with DUP, some have suggested
:10:25. > :10:30.DUP leader Arlene Foster has spoken out against leaving the EU
:10:31. > :10:33.without a trade deal in place, and has raised the issue
:10:34. > :10:34.of maintaining the open border between Northern Ireland
:10:35. > :10:43.Last week's election result has also lead to many
:10:44. > :10:45.within the Conservative Party calling for a changed stance
:10:46. > :10:49.on Brexit, led by Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson
:10:50. > :10:52.who has called for an "open Brexit" which prioritises free trade
:10:53. > :10:59.Labour, meanwhile, is also committed to leave the Single Market
:11:00. > :11:02.to curbing free movement - something that Shadow
:11:03. > :11:06.Chancellor John McDonnell reiterated at the weekend.
:11:07. > :11:08.Prominent Conservative Leave campaigners insist all this means
:11:09. > :11:16.the party's approach to Brexit won't change.
:11:17. > :11:20.What we want, obviously, is to engage and discuss these
:11:21. > :11:21.matters with people but, in essence, those negotiations
:11:22. > :11:24.are due to start very, very shortly, ie next week,
:11:25. > :11:27.and the Conservative government needs to get on and make sure
:11:28. > :11:29.that they now start talking to our European allies and friends
:11:30. > :11:34.about how we arrange to have the benefits,
:11:35. > :11:36.as the Labour Party stood on the same manifesto,
:11:37. > :11:39.they stood on a manifesto that said no to the single market,
:11:40. > :11:41.no to customs union, control of our borders,
:11:42. > :11:44.so the majority of the British people had in front of them two
:11:45. > :11:46.parties that constituted the majority of the votes that
:11:47. > :11:52.actually stood on very similar manifestos on Brexit.
:11:53. > :11:55.To discuss this further, I'm joined by the Conservative MP,
:11:56. > :11:59.and former Attorney General, Dominic Grieve.
:12:00. > :12:10.Welcome back. Have the fundamentals of the Brexit negotiating position
:12:11. > :12:14.changed after the election? The change that has taken place is that
:12:15. > :12:18.the government does not have a majority, currently, though we may
:12:19. > :12:21.succeed in doing that with the DUP. The second change is I think we need
:12:22. > :12:29.to listen to the message which the electorate is giving to us. One of
:12:30. > :12:32.the messages I picked was that the electorate are increasingly
:12:33. > :12:37.concerned about the economic well-being of the country, that they
:12:38. > :12:41.are fed up with austerity, partly because austerity was a means to an
:12:42. > :12:45.end and they see this as a prominent state. It is not surprising in those
:12:46. > :12:49.circumstances they should be troubled by it. I think there is
:12:50. > :12:54.also an appreciation that Brexit may have opportunities but it also
:12:55. > :12:59.carries risks. You don't agree with Iain Duncan Smith that the issue is
:13:00. > :13:02.now settled? I've never thought the issue was settled. I didn't think it
:13:03. > :13:06.was settled before the election. My view has always been that you need
:13:07. > :13:10.to negotiate and you need to see what you can get from negotiation.
:13:11. > :13:14.Secondly, you have to be realistic about what is in the national
:13:15. > :13:18.interest at any given moment against a moving background. The background
:13:19. > :13:22.is undoubtedly a moving one. The question is, what is in the best
:13:23. > :13:26.interest of the country? If we spend years mired in Brexit negotiations,
:13:27. > :13:31.which are damaging to the economy in the short to medium term, whatever
:13:32. > :13:34.the opportunities may be in the longer term, then not sure the
:13:35. > :13:39.electorate are going to thank us for that. I think they are looking for
:13:40. > :13:44.trying to bring this matter to as clean and rapid a conclusion as
:13:45. > :13:48.possible. What does it mean in practical terms? Does the
:13:49. > :13:51.government's negotiating position need to change, or is it still the
:13:52. > :13:56.case they will continue down the path of saying Britain is leaving
:13:57. > :14:00.the single market and leaving the Customs Union? The government is
:14:01. > :14:05.entitled to do just -- explore the options that may be on offer. But in
:14:06. > :14:09.doing that, the government needs to be realistic about it on ability to
:14:10. > :14:13.command a majority in the House, and secondly, needs to be realistic
:14:14. > :14:18.about the national interest in terms of getting this matter resolved.
:14:19. > :14:24.Provided they keep those things in mind and adopt a common sense
:14:25. > :14:28.approach, we will probably emerge with the right conclusion. All
:14:29. > :14:32.options are on the table? Yes, they should be. You didn't win the
:14:33. > :14:36.election, Labour didn't win the election. Despite the fact in both
:14:37. > :14:39.manifestos are clearly said, we are committed to leaving the single
:14:40. > :14:45.market and the Customs Union, everything has changed? One thing
:14:46. > :14:50.hasn't changed. Surprisingly enough, Dominic didn't actually mention it.
:14:51. > :14:55.That is that just about a year ago, we had a referendum. And that
:14:56. > :14:59.referendum resulted in a clear vote by the people of this country in
:15:00. > :15:06.favour of leaving the European Union. Now, of course, I'm in total
:15:07. > :15:09.agreement with Dominic that we need a common sense approach. I
:15:10. > :15:13.absolutely agree that we must keep the national interest in mind at all
:15:14. > :15:20.times. But as Iain Duncan Smith has reminded us, the truth is that I
:15:21. > :15:23.hope -- heard Jeremy Corbyn say clearly on Sunday morning, we must
:15:24. > :15:27.leave the single market. He said we must try to get a tariff free
:15:28. > :15:32.agreement of access to the single market. That is the government
:15:33. > :15:35.position. The Labour manifesto said leaving the European Union means the
:15:36. > :15:41.end of free movement. That is the government position. So actually,
:15:42. > :15:47.there is, as Ian said, an enormous degree of consensus between the two
:15:48. > :15:51.main parties for those objectives. The only parties that were really
:15:52. > :15:57.seeking to one do Brexit in the general election where the SNP,
:15:58. > :15:58.which is substantially lost ground, and the Liberal Democrats, which
:15:59. > :16:06.failed to gain any brand. So the principle set out in the
:16:07. > :16:11.White Paper are still the principles the government is going to negotiate
:16:12. > :16:14.on. I was very happy to endorse the principle set out in the White Paper
:16:15. > :16:18.and the longest house speech, if the Prime Minister can achieve those
:16:19. > :16:28.objectives. I think people would recognise was a remarkable outcome.
:16:29. > :16:32.I don't disagree with... If we leave the single market would you accept
:16:33. > :16:37.that we are still single to the four freedoms, as they are called, by the
:16:38. > :16:40.EU, including freedom of movement of people, would we be leaving the EU?
:16:41. > :16:45.Yes, of course we would be leaving the EU but it is a different way of
:16:46. > :16:48.leaving the EU and it is a legitimate subject of debate as to
:16:49. > :16:53.whether the national interest should take one route or another. Both are
:16:54. > :16:58.leaving the EU, certainly in terms of the question was put to the
:16:59. > :17:02.electorate last year. So both, in my view, are capable, and should be
:17:03. > :17:06.capable, being debated. That is not to say that the Prime Minister's
:17:07. > :17:11.approach as set out like as has speech was wrong. Do you accept that
:17:12. > :17:17.that is another virgin? There has been a lot of debate within your own
:17:18. > :17:25.party as well as the other parties, including Labour, that what people
:17:26. > :17:25.voted for in that referendum was, yes, to leave the EU, take back
:17:26. > :17:28.control and sovereignty but yes, to leave the EU, take back
:17:29. > :17:31.necessarily to be the single market. If we remain subject to freedom of
:17:32. > :17:36.movement, one of the four freedoms you mentioned, and if we remain
:17:37. > :17:39.subject to the jurisdiction of the European court of justice we will
:17:40. > :17:44.not have taken back control, people will not have got what they voted
:17:45. > :17:49.for a year ago and we will not in any real sense have left the
:17:50. > :17:52.European Union. Even Ruth Davidson, the leader of the Tories in
:17:53. > :17:57.Scotland, who has increased the number of Tory MPs in Scotland and
:17:58. > :18:02.now has a certain amount of influence that she can bring to bear
:18:03. > :18:05.to the negotiations, she is calling very strongly, saying we need to
:18:06. > :18:10.look again at the Brexit strategy and she is also saying it is not
:18:11. > :18:14.just a Tory Brexit, we need to include all the parties. Bennies to
:18:15. > :18:18.be much more consensus. Is she right? Depends what she means Archy
:18:19. > :18:22.has called for an open Brexit. I'm afraid I have no idea what an open
:18:23. > :18:25.Brexiteers. She doesn't want immigration to be at the forefront.
:18:26. > :18:31.Is she right that the economy should come before a commitment to tens of
:18:32. > :18:34.thousands in terms of net migration? I don't believe the commitment to
:18:35. > :18:38.tens of thousands is going to form part of the negotiation. When we
:18:39. > :18:43.were in the Brexit campaign, I used to say, and I meant, that the Brexit
:18:44. > :18:47.campaign was not about lowering immigration, it was about who
:18:48. > :18:51.decides what our level of immigration should be, and taking
:18:52. > :18:55.back control means that we should have the right to decide in this
:18:56. > :19:01.country for ourselves who we need to come into the country and who they
:19:02. > :19:04.should be. Is this a Remain fightback? Is this an attempt by
:19:05. > :19:08.Remainers across the House of Commons to say, we don't want to
:19:09. > :19:13.leave the single market and we are being buoyed by the fact that there
:19:14. > :19:15.has been a snap poll of 700 members of the Institute of Directors that
:19:16. > :19:19.has found a dramatic drop in confidence following a hung
:19:20. > :19:24.parliament and they're worried about access to skilled labour? Does that
:19:25. > :19:26.not bring more pressure to bear for that view? Certainly we should
:19:27. > :19:29.listen to what the business community is saying. The
:19:30. > :19:34.Conservative Party has usually built its reputation on quiet government
:19:35. > :19:38.and sound economic management. If we are not delivering those two things,
:19:39. > :19:43.then we shouldn't be surprised when people get attracted to other
:19:44. > :19:48.visions and we have to face up to the fact that Brexit was in its own
:19:49. > :19:52.weight in revolutionary act and the trouble with revolutions is they
:19:53. > :19:54.tend to breed further revolutionary act as a consequence. Those of us
:19:55. > :19:58.who have responsibility to ensure good governance have to keep that in
:19:59. > :20:02.mind when we are trying to find the right way forward to respond
:20:03. > :20:06.properly to the message that the electorate is giving us and, at the
:20:07. > :20:11.same time, to ensure that we have the sort of quiet, good government
:20:12. > :20:14.which makes people confident about their future and ultimately prevents
:20:15. > :20:19.this country from lurching around from one crisis to another. Do you
:20:20. > :20:24.agree with that? Of course we have to do all those things, while also
:20:25. > :20:30.complying with the instruction given to us by the British people a year
:20:31. > :20:32.ago to leave the European Union. But, of course, listening to Dominic
:20:33. > :20:38.Grieve, he is saying we are going to have to broaden the options on the
:20:39. > :20:42.table. Do you see these calls for - and it is a loaded term - a
:20:43. > :20:46.softening of Brexit? Does that worry you? Do you think that maybe
:20:47. > :20:50.Brexiters just not going to happen? I have no idea what these phrases
:20:51. > :20:55.mean. I don't know what is done by hard Brexit, a soft Brexit or an
:20:56. > :20:58.open Brexit. What I think it is more useful to concentrate on the
:20:59. > :21:03.substantive issues which, to be fair, we have just been discussing.
:21:04. > :21:09.Do we leave the single market? Do we retain control over freedom of
:21:10. > :21:13.movement. Do we continue to subject ourselves to the jurisdiction of the
:21:14. > :21:16.European Court of Justice? Those are the issues that really matter and
:21:17. > :21:20.they need to be resolved one way or another in the negotiations. You can
:21:21. > :21:25.understand people's concerns when they hear that the NHS was facing a
:21:26. > :21:30.staffing crisis after Brexit because it sparked a jaw-dropping 96% fall
:21:31. > :21:34.in EU nurses applying for jobs. That would make people think, I want to
:21:35. > :21:38.rethink that decision to leave the single market. Well, I think people
:21:39. > :21:42.are drawing the wrong conclusions from the likely outcome of the
:21:43. > :21:45.Brexit negotiations. But it is already happening, the applications
:21:46. > :21:51.are falling, so they are taking that message away. If we... When we
:21:52. > :21:54.leave, we will have control over immigration policy. If it is the
:21:55. > :21:58.case, as it is quite likely to be, we need people to come into the
:21:59. > :22:03.country to help nursing people in the NHS, we will be able to frame an
:22:04. > :22:07.immigration policy accordingly. But it is all ready putting people off -
:22:08. > :22:11.that the evidence from some of these surveys. Do you now see a clear path
:22:12. > :22:15.for a much longer transition, a much longer transitional period that
:22:16. > :22:20.could take several years and would keep Britain under EU single market
:22:21. > :22:23.terms? I think it is ludicrously premature to talk about a transition
:22:24. > :22:27.when we don't know what the outcome of the negotiation is going to be.
:22:28. > :22:32.But that will be part of the negotiation. Well, it may be. I've
:22:33. > :22:37.no doctrinal objection to a transition period but that is
:22:38. > :22:38.something you decide on when you've completed the negotiations, you've
:22:39. > :22:42.decided what needs to happen and then you can make a sensible
:22:43. > :22:47.decision about how long that's going to take and if that involves a
:22:48. > :22:50.transition the rearrangement or an implementation period, I would have
:22:51. > :22:54.no doctrinal difficulty with that but it is not something to be
:22:55. > :22:57.decided now. We're going to talk briefly about austerity, which you
:22:58. > :23:03.mentioned at the beginning. Before we do, there does seem to be a
:23:04. > :23:06.certain amount of turmoil within the department that is in charge of
:23:07. > :23:10.Britain leave the EU. David Jones has been sacked, George Bridges,
:23:11. > :23:14.Melissa in the Lords, has quit. James Chapman, head of
:23:15. > :23:19.Communications, has left. It isn't going to inspire confidence in the
:23:20. > :23:25.negotiations. David Davis is still there. But he seems to have lost a
:23:26. > :23:28.whole team of people. At our position has been laid out, as
:23:29. > :23:32.Dominic reminded us, both in the White Paper and the Lancaster House
:23:33. > :23:37.speech. So our opening position has been laid out very clearly and I
:23:38. > :23:41.can't see any reason why the negotiations shouldn't start next
:23:42. > :23:46.week, and I think we all hope that they reach a rapid speedy
:23:47. > :23:50.conclusion, which is good for both of us. The European Union don't want
:23:51. > :23:54.the United Kingdom to become an impoverished country, they want us
:23:55. > :23:58.to prosper and we want them to prosper, and it's in our mutual
:23:59. > :24:02.interests to reach a sensible, constructive agreement. That's
:24:03. > :24:06.Brexit for the moment. Let's dog-leg but about austerity because Theresa
:24:07. > :24:09.May's new chief of staff Gavin Barwell told Panorama that accident
:24:10. > :24:17.were Brexit and austerity called the Conservative Party to lose seats,
:24:18. > :24:20.including his own. There was a conversation I particularly remember
:24:21. > :24:23.with a teacher who had voted for me in 2010 and 2015 and said, "I
:24:24. > :24:27.understood the need for a pay freeze for a few years to deal with the
:24:28. > :24:31.deficit but you are now asking that potentially to go on for ten more
:24:32. > :24:35.years and that is too much" it that is the Jeremy Corbyn was able to tap
:24:36. > :24:38.into. Just to make clear, Gavin Barwell was recorded for the
:24:39. > :24:43.programme before he was made Theresa May's new chief of staff. Do you
:24:44. > :24:46.agree with him? Yes, I do. I think it was quite clear that austerity
:24:47. > :24:51.was a necessity born of the 2008 financial crisis. That is why the
:24:52. > :24:55.Coalition was set up and it is also why we were re-elected in 2015. Was
:24:56. > :25:00.an appreciation that our financial management made mistakes but was
:25:01. > :25:05.pretty good and the economy was recovering. The difficulty we now
:25:06. > :25:10.have is that the events of last year create instability and anxiety about
:25:11. > :25:15.the future and if that becomes a state of permanence, people then
:25:16. > :25:18.start asking, "I'm quite prepared to make sacrifices of I think it is
:25:19. > :25:22.leading to an outcome which is going to be good to me and my family but
:25:23. > :25:24.if it becomes a state of semi-permanence and you can't show
:25:25. > :25:31.the direction of travel in which you are going, then it is going to
:25:32. > :25:36.become much harder". Is austerity over? I think we need to be
:25:37. > :25:39.realistic. Before we suddenly start chucking billions of pounds of
:25:40. > :25:42.public services, we have also to look at what the consequences of
:25:43. > :25:45.doing that might be. If Jeremy Corbyn had won this election, this
:25:46. > :25:51.country would be on the road to economic ruin very, very quickly.
:25:52. > :25:58.You might say that. I am absolutely convinced of it. The thing is, you
:25:59. > :26:02.are going to do exactly, partly - I'm not saying wholesale - what's
:26:03. > :26:06.Jeremy Corbyn was suggesting in his manifesto. You're going to reverse
:26:07. > :26:09.austerity. I don't know what the primaries and the Chancellor... You
:26:10. > :26:12.just said it would be the right thing to do. What the Prime Minister
:26:13. > :26:16.and the Chancellor need to do, and I think they recognise this, is that
:26:17. > :26:27.one has to understand the extent to which the austerity which has been
:26:28. > :26:30.seen as an -- a necessity. Has gone on too long? Has limits of
:26:31. > :26:34.reasonableness been reached with the electorate? This is going to be a
:26:35. > :26:37.very big challenge because if as a result of turning a tap on public
:26:38. > :26:41.expenditure, we start to undermine wealth creation in this country, in
:26:42. > :26:45.the long term we will leave an even worse legacy. This has always been
:26:46. > :26:49.the conundrum for all respectable governments. Jeremy Corbyn didn't
:26:50. > :26:53.offer respectable government to dug-in fantasy vision. He did quite
:26:54. > :26:57.well and a lot better than you expected. If respectable government
:26:58. > :27:01.cannot offer a credible vision, the fantasists will soon creep into the
:27:02. > :27:06.picture. Except that your vision was not accepted either by the majority
:27:07. > :27:10.of people in terms of seats, so do you agree this was a protest about
:27:11. > :27:16.ongoing austerity, hitting those who are less well off? Well, it is
:27:17. > :27:24.entirely understandable, as Dominic has said that people should be
:27:25. > :27:27.increasingly frustrated by austerity. We all completely
:27:28. > :27:31.understand that. So why did you keep offering it in the manifesto?
:27:32. > :27:35.Because on the other hand, as a country, we have to try to get to a
:27:36. > :27:38.situation in which we are living within our means. We are not living
:27:39. > :27:43.within our means at the moment, we haven't been living within our means
:27:44. > :27:46.for quite a long time and, at some point, we have to try and get back
:27:47. > :27:55.to that situation. Accepted as the priorities that were wrong.
:27:56. > :27:57.Balancing that objective with responding to the understandable
:27:58. > :28:01.desire of the electorate for something different is going to be
:28:02. > :28:05.one of the great challenges facing the government. Would you be in
:28:06. > :28:09.favour of the public sector pay freeze ending? I'm not the
:28:10. > :28:14.Chancellor of the Exchequer. I know that. Do you have an opinion,
:28:15. > :28:16.Michael Howard? I don't want to second-guess all first guess the
:28:17. > :28:20.Chancellor of the Exchequer. It is one of the challenges he faces and I
:28:21. > :28:22.wish the best of fortune as the addresses it. I'm sure you do.
:28:23. > :28:25.Dominic Grieve, thank very much. Now, 93 newly elected MPs
:28:26. > :28:28.are polishing their shoes, dusting down their suits and getting
:28:29. > :28:30.ready for their first day Our Ellie has been finding out
:28:31. > :28:51.how they're feeling. MUSIC PLAYS
:28:52. > :28:55.if you thought Thursday night's result was a surprise, spare a
:28:56. > :28:57.thought for those candidates who had not expected it either.
:28:58. > :29:03.And now they've got new jobs, starting today. One of the Tories'
:29:04. > :29:08.newest, newest and most surprised didn't even have a suit. I had to go
:29:09. > :29:13.and buy one to date it I genuinely didn't own one. I had an old Primark
:29:14. > :29:22.one so I have been and splashed out at matter land today. Also not
:29:23. > :29:27.turning up in a suit yet, a new Labour MP who used to work at
:29:28. > :29:34.Parcelforce. Lee Waters old shirt down to Westminster. How are you?
:29:35. > :29:37.Nice to see you. Thursday jitters? Not jitters. It reminds me of my
:29:38. > :29:43.first day on the labour ward. No, not that kind of Labour! He is a
:29:44. > :29:46.doctor. I knew a little bit about what I was doing, trying to help
:29:47. > :29:50.mothers deliver their babies safely but I didn't have much experience
:29:51. > :29:53.and I have a lot to learn. The good thing is that the midwives on the
:29:54. > :29:57.other doctors were very helpful and mine hoping for a bit of that today.
:29:58. > :30:02.Do you even know where the toilets and the coffee shop are? I'm sure I
:30:03. > :30:06.will find it! I'm sure you will. See you soon. Goodbye to it good luck.
:30:07. > :30:10.Other newcomers have had to have awkward conversations with their
:30:11. > :30:14.bosses. I care about it, it is important to me, but don't worry, I
:30:15. > :30:20.will be back on Monday the 12th. And they were like, "OK, off you go,"
:30:21. > :30:26.and I won. They are getting the hang of how to introduce themselves. I'm
:30:27. > :30:30.Wera Hobhouse, I am the Liberal Democrat MP for Bafta Tocco, no, I
:30:31. > :30:35.am the MP for Bath. Others aren't so new but had a break for seven years,
:30:36. > :30:39.like David Drew who lost his seat in 2010 and found it again this time.
:30:40. > :30:43.It is all very different. There are things like you get your laptop and
:30:44. > :30:46.iPad, I never had that before. So there are some good things but the
:30:47. > :30:49.downside is I'm still going to have to wait up to six weeks for an
:30:50. > :30:55.office so nothing changes completely! So far, it has been all
:30:56. > :30:58.about photo calls for the new MPs. The work gets under way in
:30:59. > :31:01.Westminster this afternoon with the election of the Speaker, and then
:31:02. > :31:03.they will get sworn in over the coming days.
:31:04. > :31:06.And I'm joined here by two more new members of Parliament.
:31:07. > :31:09.Emma Dent Coad won the seat of Kensington for the Labour Party.
:31:10. > :31:11.And Christine Jardine won Edinburgh West for
:31:12. > :31:20.Congratulations to both of you. I hope I'm not being impolite by
:31:21. > :31:26.saying you must have been slightly surprised to have won the Labour
:31:27. > :31:29.stronghold of Kensington? Not had all, actually. I'm born and bred
:31:30. > :31:40.there. I know a lot of different communities. A lot of people had
:31:41. > :31:47.felt completely alienate it from the process, and suddenly they became
:31:48. > :31:52.engaged. A lot of conservatives who are appalled by the inequalities,
:31:53. > :31:55.not only Brexit, but the inequalities in Kensington, also
:31:56. > :32:01.voted for me. They have been even -- e-mailing me asking me to come and
:32:02. > :32:07.talk to them. What was your experience of the night like? Tense.
:32:08. > :32:12.Waiting for the phone call. The first surprise was when the poll
:32:13. > :32:15.said it would be a hung parliament. I have to be honest and say we were
:32:16. > :32:19.quite confident going into the night. We weren't taking it for
:32:20. > :32:23.granted. But we had very good returns, a very good feeling on the
:32:24. > :32:28.doorsteps. We knew it would be close. But we were close --
:32:29. > :32:33.confident we could do it. There were a lot of close results on the night.
:32:34. > :32:40.We had Stephen Gethins on yesterday. He held his seat by two volts. How
:32:41. > :32:47.many recounts Werther in Kensington? I had three. I felt sorry for the
:32:48. > :32:51.counters. They were totally exhausted. I think there were some
:32:52. > :32:56.press pictures of them. They had to go to work the next day. That was
:32:57. > :33:04.rather unfair. We had three. We were on tenterhooks. What about the
:33:05. > :33:09.moment when they announced the numbers and you realised you had got
:33:10. > :33:14.it? That is pretty special. They take you into the candidates'
:33:15. > :33:18.briefing room to tell you. By that time you suspect. But you don't know
:33:19. > :33:24.the actual numbers. That is pretty special. And it is exciting. It is
:33:25. > :33:28.exciting for the people around you who have worked very hard for months
:33:29. > :33:33.and years to make it happen. And it is their work and their moment as
:33:34. > :33:38.much, sometimes more, than it is yours. They are the ones who have
:33:39. > :33:42.delivered the victory. What were the issues that won it for you?
:33:43. > :33:51.Independence. Right across the board. We had local issues in
:33:52. > :33:58.Edinburgh West. But the impatience in Scotland with the SNP, another
:33:59. > :34:04.Independence Referendum, keeping the ball rolling, it has worn very thin.
:34:05. > :34:09.Even with some SNP supporters. They would rather they got on with
:34:10. > :34:13.governing Scotland. We were getting that everywhere. What about the
:34:14. > :34:19.first day? Are you nervous? Not at all. It feels quite natural,
:34:20. > :34:25.actually. I feel bizarrely calm. What happens on the first day? You
:34:26. > :34:29.get lots of inductions. It is not unlike being a councillor. It is
:34:30. > :34:37.more or less what I expected. Very busy. Have you been shown around?
:34:38. > :34:42.Have you got an office? Not yet. I have actually worked here before. I
:34:43. > :34:48.worked for a spell in the coalition. I knew my way around the estate but
:34:49. > :34:53.you see it very differently. You can now go in members' only areas. The
:34:54. > :34:58.important thing is not to get too carried away. It is just part of the
:34:59. > :35:03.job. The big parties back in the constituency. You have got some way
:35:04. > :35:10.to travel. You are a little closer. You put your Ph.D. On I understand?
:35:11. > :35:15.I have. I was doing architecture, politics and ideology under General
:35:16. > :35:19.Franco in Spain. We are going to Parker for a little while. I hope to
:35:20. > :35:24.negotiate with my university but I will be getting back to that at some
:35:25. > :35:30.point. That indicates you are quite expecting to win on the night? We
:35:31. > :35:37.had a plan! You were a broadcaster? I worked for the BBC. What is it
:35:38. > :35:43.like on the other side? You get used to it. It is funny. Particularly in
:35:44. > :35:45.Scotland. If I am on good morning Scotland I am quite often being
:35:46. > :35:52.interviewed by the person who used to be my producer. The producer was
:35:53. > :35:57.a researcher... Can you remember your first day, Michael? Allow me
:35:58. > :36:02.first to congratulate both of you on your victories. It is a huge
:36:03. > :36:06.privilege, walking through the gate, just amazing. A tremendous privilege
:36:07. > :36:12.and a tremendous feeling. I do remember. I had agreed with Sandra
:36:13. > :36:20.to go on breakfast television on the Friday morning immediately after
:36:21. > :36:25.with Tim Brinton, who you will remember, and Jan, his wife. The
:36:26. > :36:31.four of us were there. He was giving me advice, showing me the ropes on
:36:32. > :36:36.television. And since then, all these years in Parliament, you
:36:37. > :36:45.haven't regretted a moment? Well, I'm sure there are things I regret!
:36:46. > :36:52.It is an enormous privilege. And that sense of privilege will never
:36:53. > :36:59.leave you. I don't think. And it's a privilege that has to be earned and
:37:00. > :37:05.earned again. It isn't a job for life, unless you have a safe seat.
:37:06. > :37:09.Not only is it not a job for life, it is not something you should ever
:37:10. > :37:17.take for granted. Did you expect the hung parliament? I thought it would
:37:18. > :37:21.be close. But who knows? No. I don't think the world expected that. It
:37:22. > :37:27.was much better than some of us feared. It is always possible. If we
:37:28. > :37:33.can turn Kensington red, we can do anything. That may be true. What
:37:34. > :37:39.about some of the issues you will be pursuing? Obviously independence was
:37:40. > :37:42.an issue. Brexit will be hugely important. It was very important in
:37:43. > :37:46.Scotland as well because Edinburgh, for example, the majority of people
:37:47. > :37:50.in Edinburgh West voted two to stay in the UK and in the European Union.
:37:51. > :37:56.We have two ensure we get the best possible deal. Hopefully, Mrs May
:37:57. > :38:00.will see that the election result means that perhaps she didn't quite
:38:01. > :38:04.have the mandate she thought for a hard Brexit, and that is glad to be
:38:05. > :38:08.something the parties will be pursuing. Could you see yourselves
:38:09. > :38:12.working with Ruth Davidson in Scotland in terms of pursuing a
:38:13. > :38:19.similar approach to Brexit? I don't know. We have to see what happens.
:38:20. > :38:23.We have a specific pro-EU approach. Before the referendum, Ruth Davidson
:38:24. > :38:28.was very pro-Remain. We will have to wait to see what happens. Good luck
:38:29. > :38:32.to both of you. Enjoy. We will see you again soon. Come back on.
:38:33. > :38:33.So there are a couple of constitutional fixes
:38:34. > :38:36.or conventions that might help Mrs May's government be a little bit
:38:37. > :38:41.Among them is the power of Evel - not a cheap Hollywood horror flick,
:38:42. > :38:43.but the relatively new concept of English Votes for English Laws,
:38:44. > :38:46.designed to stop MPs from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland helping
:38:47. > :38:50.The other is the much older Salisbury Convention,
:38:51. > :38:54.created to protect a government's democratically supported manifesto
:38:55. > :38:59.If that isn't all clear yet, don't worry, we have an expert.
:39:00. > :39:07.Dr Alan Renwick from the Consitition Unit who is in Oxford.
:39:08. > :39:18.Welcome to the programme. Thank you. I'm so sorry. I would have to
:39:19. > :39:23.interrupt. We can just see Arlene Foster checking how Watts. She is on
:39:24. > :39:29.the a few minutes late. She was expected at 12:30pm. Going in with
:39:30. > :39:34.Nigel Dodds. Her support is absolutely critical to Theresa May.
:39:35. > :39:38.So that she can actually govern. First of all she has to get her
:39:39. > :39:43.queen's speeds through Parliament, Theresa May. These talks will be
:39:44. > :39:48.crucial. It is a lifeline to Theresa May. It comes after the Prime
:39:49. > :39:52.Minister apologised to MPs for the election result, telling them, I got
:39:53. > :39:56.us into this mess and I will get us out of it. We will return of that
:39:57. > :40:00.meeting finishes. Sorry for interrupting before you had even
:40:01. > :40:06.begun. Tell us about these constitutional fixes. Will the
:40:07. > :40:14.government be able to push through legislation relying only on English
:40:15. > :40:24.MPs? No is the simple answer. Sorry, my earpiece as pop died. They are
:40:25. > :40:30.very unreliable. Hold it. Eva lives not likely to make any difference.
:40:31. > :40:38.-- Evel. It introduces an extra element into the process. Matters
:40:39. > :40:45.that affect only England can be vetoed by English MPs. There is a
:40:46. > :40:49.step in the process where English MPs have two agree to those laws.
:40:50. > :40:54.Those laws are still subject to a vote by the whole of the House of
:40:55. > :40:57.Commons. Although it is the case that Theresa May does have a
:40:58. > :41:02.majority, quite a comfortable majority of 60 MPs in England, that
:41:03. > :41:06.doesn't help are terribly much. She will still have to get anything
:41:07. > :41:10.through the whole of the House of Commons as well. She has got an
:41:11. > :41:15.issue, for example, like expanding grammar schools, expanding grammar
:41:16. > :41:19.schools in England because education is devolved, she would still have to
:41:20. > :41:24.get that passed the whole House before she can go to English-only
:41:25. > :41:32.MPs, and she doesn't have a majority for everything. So she will still
:41:33. > :41:38.have the same problems as with any other legislation? Yes, absolutely.
:41:39. > :41:41.What the English Votes for English Laws provision doors is, if there
:41:42. > :41:47.were a government which was the other way around, say the Labour
:41:48. > :41:55.Party had one 50 or more seats, and it were the party leading a minority
:41:56. > :42:04.government or a coalition government with a small number of MPs, then it
:42:05. > :42:07.would have been constrained by the English Votes for English Laws
:42:08. > :42:10.provision because it would not have a majority in England. At that point
:42:11. > :42:16.the provision would have been important. But for this government
:42:17. > :42:19.it doesn't make any difference. Let's talk about the Salisbury
:42:20. > :42:23.Convention and the House of Lords. If something is in the manifesto and
:42:24. > :42:29.a government wins a majority, that in the House of Lords should abide
:42:30. > :42:32.by that manifesto commitment. If we look at restricting Winter Fuel
:42:33. > :42:37.Payments for pensions -- pensioners, it is in the manifesto, but Mrs May
:42:38. > :42:42.didn't get that majority, can she still putted to the House of Lords
:42:43. > :42:45.using the Salisbury Convention? The Salisbury Convention is only a
:42:46. > :42:48.convention. Members of the House of Lords are not bound by it. There are
:42:49. > :42:55.different views as to what the convention means. Some would say the
:42:56. > :42:59.convention does apply, even when the government does not have a majority
:43:00. > :43:05.in the house of Commons. Others take the view that in that circumstance
:43:06. > :43:09.it should not be regarded. The Salisbury Convention was introduced
:43:10. > :43:14.in 1945 when the Labour Party had a very large majority in the House of
:43:15. > :43:17.Commons but was well behind in the House of Lords. At that point, the
:43:18. > :43:22.Leader of the House of Lords, Lord Salisbury, said, we recognise the
:43:23. > :43:26.mandate of the Labour government and we should respect that. But it is
:43:27. > :43:31.not clear, really, whether the House of Lords should see itself as being
:43:32. > :43:35.bound by the mandate of the current government, because, as we know, the
:43:36. > :43:42.government doesn't have a majority of MPs. Thank you very much. Michael
:43:43. > :43:47.Howard. Problems ahead in the House of Lords. It is a convention and
:43:48. > :43:51.they don't necessarily have to abide by it, and the Tories do not have a
:43:52. > :43:55.majority in the House of Lords. When it comes to plans for Brexit, for
:43:56. > :44:00.example, that no deal is better than a bad deal, that could go in the
:44:01. > :44:05.House of Lords? You're looking many years ahead. We will cross that
:44:06. > :44:10.bridge if and when we ever reach it. I hope the Salisbury Convention will
:44:11. > :44:15.be respected. The Conservative party got 44% of the vote. Many more seats
:44:16. > :44:20.than Labour. But they didn't win. Why should it be? You'll are depends
:44:21. > :44:30.what you mean by win. No other party won. It is a convention. I think it
:44:31. > :44:34.should apply in these circumstances. We shall see. When the Prime
:44:35. > :44:39.Minister has got the Queen's speeds through the Commons, it will be
:44:40. > :44:44.difficult. There will be problems of certain parts of that are held up by
:44:45. > :44:49.the House of Lords? There may be all sorts of difficulties ahead. The
:44:50. > :44:52.House of Lords should respect the authority of the House of Commons,
:44:53. > :45:00.for a start. The Salisbury Convention should apply.
:45:01. > :45:04.In Brexit, looking ahead to the Great Repeal Bill, there are already
:45:05. > :45:09.people saying they won't support that bill is the next substantial
:45:10. > :45:12.vote when it comes to Brexit. Let's see what the Great Repeal Bill
:45:13. > :45:16.contains. I hope everyone will look at it and vote on its merits and, as
:45:17. > :45:20.I say, we will cross those bridges if and when we come to them. We
:45:21. > :45:24.talked earlier about parts of the manifesto that will possibly have to
:45:25. > :45:27.be junked. Do you see that there will be part of a manifesto that was
:45:28. > :45:33.fought on in this campaign that will have to go? Well, the Queen's speech
:45:34. > :45:38.is going to result from discussions between the government and the DUP
:45:39. > :45:42.and so, busy, if there are things in the manifesto which the DUP is not
:45:43. > :45:45.prepared to support, it is not terribly likely that they will find
:45:46. > :45:48.their way into the Queen's speech but that is going to be the subject
:45:49. > :45:53.of the discussions which are probably taking place as we speak.
:45:54. > :45:58.Yes, they are, indeed. I don't know how long they will be in there while
:45:59. > :46:02.they are negotiating. Back on English roots for English laws, but
:46:03. > :46:06.is effectively a veto and is not going to help Theresa May at all in
:46:07. > :46:09.terms of pushing through English-only laws. For the reasons
:46:10. > :46:12.given by your expert commentator, it is unlikely to have a very
:46:13. > :46:16.significant effect in this Parliament, I agree. Briefly on the
:46:17. > :46:19.fixed term Parliament act, that is on the statute. Do you think that
:46:20. > :46:27.makes a five-year term for Mrs May more likely? It makes a five-year
:46:28. > :46:31.term a little bit more likely, yes, because, as you know, there are
:46:32. > :46:33.provisions which have to be satisfied in order for an election
:46:34. > :46:39.to take place within that five years. However, those conventions
:46:40. > :46:44.did not seem to be much of a bar to the calling of an election just a
:46:45. > :46:48.few weeks ago and I suspect they won't be much of a bar to the
:46:49. > :46:52.calling of an election within the five-year period if that's what
:46:53. > :46:58.people want to. Do you think that should be scrapped? It was in the
:46:59. > :47:00.Conservative manifesto. I think the fixed five-year parliament was
:47:01. > :47:05.absolutely necessary for the Coalition because you had to have
:47:06. > :47:08.provision which stopped one party cutting and running when it thought
:47:09. > :47:13.it would be to its electoral advantage but I'm not convinced it
:47:14. > :47:18.is necessary as a permanent feature of our constitution. So you wouldn't
:47:19. > :47:20.be unhappy if it went? No. Was the first things our new MPs have to do
:47:21. > :47:29.is elect their speaker. That post was held in the last
:47:30. > :47:32.Parliament by John Bercow and he had been expected to face a challenge
:47:33. > :47:34.after increasing But with a hung parliament,
:47:35. > :47:37.one of the Speaker's most vocal detractors,
:47:38. > :47:39.Conservative MP James Duddridge, said there "is not an appetite
:47:40. > :47:42.to push it to a vote", adding that there are "more
:47:43. > :47:44.important battles to fight". I'm joined now by Bobby Friedman,
:47:45. > :47:53.who has written a biography Welcome back to the Daily Politics.
:47:54. > :47:57.When we're talking about winners and losers in this election, John Bercow
:47:58. > :48:01.it seems is a winner. He is. Is a bit Teflon and has been extremely
:48:02. > :48:07.lucky because over the period since 2009, he has had all the cards fall
:48:08. > :48:10.in the right place for him to stay a speaker and it has happened again
:48:11. > :48:13.because as James Duddridge said, there was the appetite or ability to
:48:14. > :48:18.do it because the Conservative Party have more pressing issues. But that
:48:19. > :48:23.does imply that there was quite a lot of opposition to him. Tell us a
:48:24. > :48:27.bit about some of the criticism of John Bercow. There has always been a
:48:28. > :48:29.huge amount of opposition to him, particularly with Alyssa
:48:30. > :48:33.Conservative Party. When he was elected in 2009 it was because
:48:34. > :48:38.Labour still had a majority at that time and they voted for the
:48:39. > :48:41.Conservative MP they knew David Cameron liked the least. David
:48:42. > :48:45.Cameron has always hated John Bercow but never quite had the votes all
:48:46. > :48:48.the political will to get it through and then, of course, just when it
:48:49. > :48:51.looked like Theresa May might have a big majority that might allow the
:48:52. > :48:55.Conservatives to finally get rid of him - and this is particularly
:48:56. > :48:58.important because John Bercow during the campaign has said he is going to
:48:59. > :49:02.stay in for a full term, having pledged early to say the nine years,
:49:03. > :49:08.then this opportunity has gone as well. There was an opportunity to
:49:09. > :49:13.unseat him in 2015 undefiled, didn't it? There was that attempt and an
:49:14. > :49:17.attempt more recently this year, where there was a motion going round
:49:18. > :49:20.which didn't get that many signatures. Again, it's because they
:49:21. > :49:23.haven't ever been quite that majority. John Bercow, in fairness
:49:24. > :49:27.to him, does have support from a number of Conservative MPs and as
:49:28. > :49:30.the years go on, that kind of visceral hatred of him that we had
:49:31. > :49:34.in 2009 has lessened a bit and many people think he has been a fairly
:49:35. > :49:38.reasonable speaker, so the longer it goes on, and without that big
:49:39. > :49:41.Conservative majority, he is not going to get unseated because he has
:49:42. > :49:46.support on the other side of the House. Do you like him, Michael? It
:49:47. > :49:49.would be foolhardy in the extreme for a member of the House of Lords
:49:50. > :49:53.to express a view on the speakership of the House of commons and you
:49:54. > :49:58.wouldn't expect me to trespassers on something which is totally within
:49:59. > :50:01.the sovereignty of the House of Commons. That makes it sound like
:50:02. > :50:06.you don't like him. Can I answer that question of this is an example
:50:07. > :50:09.of why John Bercow was so unpopular. When Michael Howard was leader of
:50:10. > :50:12.the Conservative Party the two might have got on and John Bercow went to
:50:13. > :50:15.Lord Howard and said he thought that Ann Widdecombe was right when she
:50:16. > :50:18.said there was something of the night about him and that was the
:50:19. > :50:29.party leader at the time. Maybe that is why you are not very keen to talk
:50:30. > :50:31.be pleased to see another term for John Bercow? I respect the
:50:32. > :50:34.differences between the House of Lords the House of Commons and it
:50:35. > :50:36.certainly wouldn't be right for me to make any... I think you should
:50:37. > :50:38.break with convention for once! Backbenchers are going to be even
:50:39. > :50:41.more empowered in this new parliament, a hung parliament, and
:50:42. > :50:44.he has got a reputation, John Bercow, rightly or wrongly, of
:50:45. > :50:48.trying to give more time to backbench MPs, hasn't he? That's
:50:49. > :50:51.right it appears always said he is the backbencher speaker and he has
:50:52. > :50:56.been much better at holding the government to account in some ways.
:50:57. > :50:59.Weather that is because he hasn't liked the Conservative primaries as
:51:00. > :51:03.is a moot point but ultimately he does get backbenchers more involved
:51:04. > :51:06.but parliamentarians are really going to have their say in this
:51:07. > :51:10.Parliament about thing John Bercow will allow that. Do you think that
:51:11. > :51:14.has been a good thing, empowering Parliament to stand up to the
:51:15. > :51:18.Executive, giving them more time, backbench MPs, in PMQs, which does
:51:19. > :51:25.now overrun. Has that been a positive? Yes. And it should
:51:26. > :51:29.continue? Yes, I'm sure it will. I suppose it is easy when you are not
:51:30. > :51:32.the leader of the party any more to say that. If Tory MPs are moaning
:51:33. > :51:36.less about him, do you think that has gone, any attempt to get rid of
:51:37. > :51:40.him in future? I think yes, for the next parliament, assuming he doesn't
:51:41. > :51:43.want to try and stay on again for another Parliament. There just
:51:44. > :51:46.aren't those votes there and when you are government together, as
:51:47. > :51:50.Theresa May is going to have to do, she just won't have that political
:51:51. > :51:54.capital to be able to do it. So I think he has been very lucky but I
:51:55. > :51:58.think he is safe for the next five years. What about relations between
:51:59. > :52:02.him and Andrea Leadsom, who is now the new Leader of the House, taking
:52:03. > :52:05.over from David Lidington. How do you see that relationship going?
:52:06. > :52:08.John Bercow has a real habit of falling out with people he has to
:52:09. > :52:12.deal with so I wouldn't rule that out but at the moment, things are
:52:13. > :52:17.probably a little bit better than they have been. David Cameron really
:52:18. > :52:23.disliked him. Theresa May sort of tolerates him and gave quite a nice
:52:24. > :52:26.bit for one of his leaflets in the run-up to the election endorsing him
:52:27. > :52:29.so he is getting on OK with the current leadership of the
:52:30. > :52:34.Conservative Party and I think inevitably it will be a bit rocky
:52:35. > :52:37.but given where the majority stands at the moment, I think Andrea
:52:38. > :52:41.Leadsom will ultimately have to work with John Bercow. The other thing is
:52:42. > :52:44.in a hung parliament, I suppose is or becomes even more important. He
:52:45. > :52:48.has better relations with Theresa May. Is he going to mind his peace
:52:49. > :52:59.and queues in the future or just carry on as if nothing has changed?
:53:00. > :53:03.I years ever done that so -- see that starting up. He is into his
:53:04. > :53:07.last five years so we may see him getting even more demob happy,
:53:08. > :53:10.speaking out more on issues, not staying as impartial as he did over
:53:11. > :53:14.the EU referendum, so I think we will see him trespassing into other
:53:15. > :53:18.areas, as he started to do earlier this year. So you think you can
:53:19. > :53:22.actually cause a little more trouble in the future? Yes, just putting a
:53:23. > :53:33.little bit of poison now and then. What advice would you give to John
:53:34. > :53:36.Bercow? I'm not asking you to say whether you like him or not but what
:53:37. > :53:39.advice in this hung parliament in his position as arbiter of a hung
:53:40. > :53:42.parliament? You are asking a member of the House of Lords to advise the
:53:43. > :53:44.Speaker of the House of Commons. Well, only generally. You can give
:53:45. > :53:47.friendly advice. You don't have to be unfriendly about it. I very much
:53:48. > :53:50.doubt that he would ask for my advice, even further doubt that he
:53:51. > :53:55.would accept it and I don't think it is for me to give it to him. Thank
:53:56. > :53:59.you very much for coming in. Now we can return to Number Ten because we
:54:00. > :54:02.saw Arlene Foster, the leader of the Democratic Unionist Party walking
:54:03. > :54:05.about famous street into Number Ten. Those discussions obviously still
:54:06. > :54:10.going on. Norman, what can you tell us? You keep looking over your
:54:11. > :54:13.shoulder just in case she comes out of that door. I was looking at a
:54:14. > :54:21.much more interesting fight about to erupt, it seems, between Larry and
:54:22. > :54:25.another cat. That is a serious clash that could be just about to unfold
:54:26. > :54:38.it up I don't know whether I should intervene! Is he actually making
:54:39. > :54:41.ground? Is Larry lying there? Larry is lying there and Parmeston turned
:54:42. > :54:45.up and I thought he was chancing his arm. I think Larry has woken up now
:54:46. > :54:49.and has realised there is trouble! Is this a euphemism for what is
:54:50. > :54:54.going on behind the black door? Arlene Foster arrived a short time
:54:55. > :54:58.ago and we shouted at her about "Is there going to be a deal"? At she
:54:59. > :55:02.said absolutely nothing I think the expectation is that there will be
:55:03. > :55:04.some sort of agreement, even if it is only the headlines of agreement
:55:05. > :55:10.because, let's be honest, there was a mutual vested interest for both
:55:11. > :55:14.parties to reach some sort of accommodation. They are both
:55:15. > :55:17.fervently anti-Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party. Mrs May absolutely
:55:18. > :55:20.need the deal to get a Commons majority so she can govern and for
:55:21. > :55:25.the DUP, they will hope they will get money on it that there will be
:55:26. > :55:30.cash for economic regeneration and reconstruction. There is a mutual
:55:31. > :55:34.self-interest in reaching a bargain. I suspect it will be handshakes,
:55:35. > :55:39.smiles and photo opportunities today. I think the trouble is more
:55:40. > :55:44.down the line as to whether this sort of arrangement can actually
:55:45. > :55:48.stick and lasting longer tempted In the short-term, we're still waiting,
:55:49. > :55:51.aren't we, for a date for the Queen's speech, for the legislative
:55:52. > :55:55.programme to be presented to Parliament and, presumably, wants
:55:56. > :56:00.these talks are over, and if an arrangement has been reached by the
:56:01. > :56:05.two ladies, then we will find out when that Queen's Speeches going to
:56:06. > :56:11.be? Well, perhaps there is one scenario where the DUP just decide
:56:12. > :56:13.to play hardball and they say, that is very interesting, this is all
:56:14. > :56:16.good stuff and I'm sure we can reach an agreement but we've just got to
:56:17. > :56:21.go away and finesse a few things. In other words, they don't sign on the
:56:22. > :56:25.dotted line today but to increase their leverage... They are basically
:56:26. > :56:28.going to keep Mrs May waiting, in which case the premise cannot say to
:56:29. > :56:35.the Queen, next Monday we are on for the Queen's Speech. So it depends
:56:36. > :56:40.whether the DUP are ready to actually sign on the dotted line
:56:41. > :56:43.today or they choose to keep Mrs May waiting a bit longer, in which case
:56:44. > :56:47.we really do not know when the Queen's Speeches going to be. Thank
:56:48. > :56:52.you very much and keep Parmeston and Larry apart and keep your eye on the
:56:53. > :56:54.black door! They are having a face-off now, actually! I will leave
:56:55. > :56:57.you to concentrate on Number Ten. For the fourth time
:56:58. > :57:00.in 12 months, Ukip Their last leader, Paul Nuttall,
:57:01. > :57:03.resigned after the party failed to win a seat in the general
:57:04. > :57:06.election last week. We'll be speaking to all
:57:07. > :57:08.the candidates on Daily Politics. First is David Coburn,
:57:09. > :57:13.who joins us from Strasbourg. We haven't got very long with you
:57:14. > :57:16.but thank you for joining us. You say you are running for Ukip leader
:57:17. > :57:21.to stop at Trieste, dilettantes and a single issue loonies. What do you
:57:22. > :57:24.mean by that? Two is the what I'm doing as I am hoping that Nigel is
:57:25. > :57:28.going to stand. My hope is that Nigel Farage is going to be our
:57:29. > :57:32.leader again. I think he is the best man for the job but if he doesn't
:57:33. > :57:36.stand, I will have to stand to make sure we don't have people coming in
:57:37. > :57:42.who have not got the right idea. We want to go back to good
:57:43. > :57:46.old-fashioned Ukip, which Idol had working beautifully and we want to
:57:47. > :57:49.have that again, not this nonsense. At the risk of sounding like Brenda
:57:50. > :57:57.during the general election campaign, Nigel again? Yes, well, I
:57:58. > :57:59.regret he even left in the first place, quite frankly, but I'm hoping
:58:00. > :58:04.that he will stand but if he doesn't, I will be standing. I want
:58:05. > :58:07.to make sure we offer what we've always offered, which is the
:58:08. > :58:13.ordinary working guy and girl, give them a good run for their money,
:58:14. > :58:18.make sure they get treated fairly, keep taxes low, make sure we get
:58:19. > :58:22.Brexit. We've seen what's happened with the Conservative Party, it has
:58:23. > :58:25.disintegrated. The ridiculous election they've had has resulted a
:58:26. > :58:31.disaster so obviously we've got to be there to make sure... Just very
:58:32. > :58:37.briefly, was Paul Matt Allwright to resign? Yes, I think you did the
:58:38. > :58:41.right thing. I think he was ill advised by the people around him but
:58:42. > :58:46.I think he was right to resign. We've got serious problems in
:58:47. > :58:51.Scotland. People worry about Ruth Davidson. She promised Brexit energy
:58:52. > :58:54.is reneging. We have to leave it there. I am sorry to quit you short
:58:55. > :58:57.but thank you very much for joining us briefly.
:58:58. > :59:00.There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.
:59:01. > :59:03.The question was, which of these is the odd one out?
:59:04. > :59:05.Was it A - Will Barton as Boris Johnson?
:59:06. > :59:08.C - Meryl Streep as Margaret Thatcher?
:59:09. > :59:13.So, Michael, what's the correct answer?
:59:14. > :59:19.Michael Gove? No, it is Meryl Streep that Margaret Thatcher. You didn't
:59:20. > :59:21.noted that because she was in a film and the others are a docudrama. I
:59:22. > :59:24.think that the answer. I hope so! The one o'clock news is starting
:59:25. > :59:30.over on BBC One now.