:00:39. > :00:40.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:41. > :00:42.The Chancellor Philip Hammond says Britain is 'weary' of austerity
:00:43. > :00:45.and promises he will pursue stronger economic growth to pay
:00:46. > :00:51.David Davis promises he'll deliver a Brexit deal "like no other
:00:52. > :00:54.in history" after his first formal meeting with the EU's chief
:00:55. > :01:03.Ahead of the state opening of parliament tomorrow,
:01:04. > :01:06.Theresa May continues to negotiate a deal with the DUP to get her plans
:01:07. > :01:12.We'll take a look at what's likely to make the cut
:01:13. > :01:17.It's Ed Miliband, I'm sitting in for Jeremy Vine.
:01:18. > :01:24.And Ed Miliband moonlights as a DJ on Radio 2 -
:01:25. > :01:27.we'll review the former leader of the Labour Party's
:01:28. > :01:38.We are joined by a radio critic and fellow broadcaster Nigel Farage.
:01:39. > :01:43.and with us for the whole of the programme today
:01:44. > :01:44.the businessman and former minister in Gordon Brown's
:01:45. > :01:55.So, this morning the Chancellor, Philip Hammond, has been
:01:56. > :01:57.giving his assessment of the economic picture
:01:58. > :02:02.Mr Hammond made it clear he wants to put the economy at the heart
:02:03. > :02:04.of the Brexit negotiations but he also talked of the need
:02:05. > :02:07.for his government to convince the public that they should trust
:02:08. > :02:10.the Conservatives with the nation's finances ...
:02:11. > :02:13.Stronger growth is the only sustainable way to deliver
:02:14. > :02:15.better public services, higher real wages and
:02:16. > :02:24.I thought we'd won that argument, but I learned in the general
:02:25. > :02:32.But we must make anew the case for a market economy
:02:33. > :02:40.And we need to explain again how stronger growth must be delivered
:02:41. > :02:56.Do you agree with Philip Hammond that the Tories failed to make a
:02:57. > :03:00.case for a rising economy, hence the support for the Labour Party.
:03:01. > :03:03.Absolutely right, I was amazed at the appalling campaign, how they
:03:04. > :03:08.didn't start saying, we can't be trusted with the economy, they
:03:09. > :03:18.cannot and it's the old classic way of campaigning and they ignored it
:03:19. > :03:23.completely. -- we can. If you don't have businesses investing in its
:03:24. > :03:26.people and its kit we -- you will not achieve productivity
:03:27. > :03:29.enhancement, you will not compete in the world, you will not make money
:03:30. > :03:34.and if you don't make money you don't pay tax, if you don't pay taxi
:03:35. > :03:38.don't have a public sector. People are fed up with austerity,
:03:39. > :03:41.campaigning on what many people felt was league outlook for more
:03:42. > :03:45.austerity was wrong. If that were end you have people saying I'm going
:03:46. > :03:50.to keep this group down and make life difficult for you and on the
:03:51. > :03:53.other hand you have Marxists with their mates in the cookie jar at
:03:54. > :03:57.saying you can't have everything, prizes every day... But isn't that
:03:58. > :04:04.what the Conservatives are going to do now? This is not a zero-sum game
:04:05. > :04:06.of austerity or no austerity, you can have a well-managed economy
:04:07. > :04:13.without giving everything away when you haven't got it, Robert, go bust,
:04:14. > :04:18.call in the IMF. There is a happy medium, I thought Philip Hammond was
:04:19. > :04:23.spot-on. He said we have to have growth -- growth, you said you need
:04:24. > :04:26.tax receipts, Odrick services to a good quality standard of the
:04:27. > :04:31.prospects for growth don't look strong. The CBI prediction thinks
:04:32. > :04:35.the British economy will slow in the coming years, they say it's because
:04:36. > :04:39.of political uncertainty because of the result of the election, partly
:04:40. > :04:47.because of Brexit and they said the economy going to 1.6% in 2018 will
:04:48. > :04:51.be rather subdued. I think they are wrong and by the way, I used to be a
:04:52. > :04:55.trade journal of the CBI so it's not personal to them but a lot of these
:04:56. > :05:00.forecasts turn out to be wrong. What I do think and they haven't added,
:05:01. > :05:05.business doesn't like uncertainty, and we've got two years of
:05:06. > :05:09.uncertainty coming down the line. I think more about Brexit, while this
:05:10. > :05:16.is happening it's not going to be easy. But... So for the economy has
:05:17. > :05:20.confounded all the critics, not just Brexit but in terms, two years ago
:05:21. > :05:25.and this year, it's doing better and one thing we must do, must do, is
:05:26. > :05:31.keep the door open with the welcome mat to international investment
:05:32. > :05:34.coming in, running businesses here, generating welfare and paying tax,
:05:35. > :05:38.therefore you need low taxes and you need government help to build your
:05:39. > :05:42.infrastructure, that's how you get it done. Including things like
:05:43. > :05:45.housing and transport but one of the problems... And education. But one
:05:46. > :05:49.of the problems for the voting public is rising inflation, wages
:05:50. > :05:53.remaining low because real incomes are being cut and that's a
:05:54. > :06:00.problem... It's not a consequence. But wages haven't gone up... For
:06:01. > :06:04.jihad is a feeling that the economy is going here and I am not going
:06:05. > :06:09.with it, let's look an alternative but the challenge will be to hammer
:06:10. > :06:14.down on inflation, that's for certain. You can afford wage
:06:15. > :06:18.increases if you match with productivity, productivity comes
:06:19. > :06:22.from better skills, better investment in kid, those two things
:06:23. > :06:24.will lead due to having better real wage rises and it will also curb
:06:25. > :06:24.inflation. The question for today is,
:06:25. > :06:28.what present did Michel Barnier - the EU's Chief Brexit negotiator -
:06:29. > :06:31.give to David Davis, at the start of the Brexit
:06:32. > :06:35.negotiations yesterday? b) A pair of binoculars
:06:36. > :06:39.themed hot air balloon c) A vinyl
:06:40. > :06:42.copy of the EU anthem, Ode to Joy At the end of the show
:06:43. > :06:47.Digby will hopefully give So right on schedule David Davis
:06:48. > :06:56.formally opened negotiations Following a lunch with his opposite
:06:57. > :07:02.number, Michel Barnier, the two men gave a press
:07:03. > :07:04.conference in Brussels. They both said the talks had got off
:07:05. > :07:16.to a constructive start... I've been encouraged by the
:07:17. > :07:22.constructive approach that both sides have taken. We've laid a solid
:07:23. > :07:25.foundation for future discussions with an ambitious but eminently
:07:26. > :07:29.achievable timetable. And it's clear from the opening that both of us
:07:30. > :07:35.want to achieve the best possible outcome and the strongest support
:07:36. > :07:40.partnership. One that works for the UK and for the youth. Our objective
:07:41. > :07:47.is to agree on the main principles on the key challenges for the UK's
:07:48. > :07:54.withdrawal as soon as possible. This includes citizens rights, the single
:07:55. > :07:56.financial settlement and the question of orders, in particular in
:07:57. > :07:57.Ireland. This morning Michel Barnier
:07:58. > :07:58.travelled to Luxembourg for a meeting of the EU's
:07:59. > :08:00.General Affairs Council to brief Europe Ministers
:08:01. > :08:03.on the start of the brexit We can talk now to our
:08:04. > :08:14.Europe Reporter, Adam Fleming ... You are there in the sunshine.
:08:15. > :08:17.Michel Barnier telling all the member states what he and David
:08:18. > :08:26.Davis talked about, what happens next? Greetings from an absolute the
:08:27. > :08:30.scorching Luxembourg, who knew it could get some hot? Michel Barnier
:08:31. > :08:35.will meet Europe ministers from the other 27 EU countries in about an
:08:36. > :08:38.hour's time to update them on what happened yesterday, the talks with
:08:39. > :08:43.David Davis. The ministers will have a discussion in the margins of this
:08:44. > :08:47.meeting about the process for relocating two of the EU agencies
:08:48. > :08:50.that look after banking and pharmaceuticals based in London.
:08:51. > :08:54.What will happen to them after Brexit, a big competition from other
:08:55. > :08:58.countries to host them. On the issue of citizens rights Iwobi movement
:08:59. > :09:02.soon on that whole thing about what happens to EU nationals living in
:09:03. > :09:08.the UK and UK nationals living on the continent, there's going to be
:09:09. > :09:11.an EU summit of leaders on Thursday in Brussels, Theresa May will update
:09:12. > :09:15.her counterparts and the UK's proposals on that issue and in the
:09:16. > :09:19.UK on Monday document will be published with much more detail
:09:20. > :09:23.about the UK's pitch on that particular subject. Going forward
:09:24. > :09:26.for the Brexit talks as a whole, we got the terms of reference
:09:27. > :09:31.yesterday, there will be a week of talks every month until October.
:09:32. > :09:34.There will be a mixture of plenary sessions which is where well said
:09:35. > :09:38.Michel Barnier on one side of the table, David Davis on the other like
:09:39. > :09:42.we saw yesterday in Brussels and there will be a series of smaller
:09:43. > :09:46.negotiating groups dedicated to three main topics, citizens rights,
:09:47. > :09:49.the issue of how much money the UK should pay to leave the EU and
:09:50. > :09:54.thumping euphemistically called other withdrawal issues. Then the
:09:55. > :09:57.big issue of what happens to the border between Northern Ireland and
:09:58. > :10:03.Ireland, will be the subject of something called a continuing
:10:04. > :10:06.dialogue which will be done by the Sherpas, David Davis and Michel
:10:07. > :10:10.Barnier's deputies will discuss that and we heard that might take right
:10:11. > :10:14.up until the end of the Brexit process to sort out. It will be a
:10:15. > :10:18.long, hot and busy summer for you and the other EU countries but will
:10:19. > :10:22.we get updates from all those meetings, will there be regular
:10:23. > :10:28.press conferences, will we know the content of those meetings and what's
:10:29. > :10:31.decided? That's actually very interesting, Michel Barnier's people
:10:32. > :10:33.says he wants to do press conferences throughout this process
:10:34. > :10:38.of the thing we saw yesterday with him and David Davis, talking about
:10:39. > :10:43.what they had done, that's going to be a regular feature. Part of the
:10:44. > :10:47.terms of reference yesterday, released, about transparency and the
:10:48. > :10:54.line there is that both sides will be as transparent as default, they
:10:55. > :10:57.are keen to get as much paperwork and facts and figures and
:10:58. > :11:01.negotiating positions out there as possible, however there is a caveat
:11:02. > :11:05.in the terms of reference, each side can specify that wants documents to
:11:06. > :11:09.be held back from public consumption or to be passed around by everyone
:11:10. > :11:13.else. I think that's a sort of note leaking clause then of course the EU
:11:14. > :11:18.requires lots of meetings with people different countries are
:11:19. > :11:21.updated like what's happening today. My big hope for today is that I will
:11:22. > :11:25.be able to corners of Europe ministers on their way out of here
:11:26. > :11:30.and they will give me some gossip about what happened yesterday. Adam,
:11:31. > :11:34.happy hunting. Bebe Jones, the meeting was presented yesterday by
:11:35. > :11:40.Michel Barnier as a win for them with David Davis, the Brexit
:11:41. > :11:48.negotiator for the UK linking first in terms of the phase negotiations
:11:49. > :11:52.to the talks. Do I care? I negotiated 20 years as a corporate
:11:53. > :11:56.lawyer, don't go and waste ammunition on stuff that doesn't
:11:57. > :11:59.matter, if you want to talk about divorce costs first trade
:12:00. > :12:04.afterwards, by all means, avid, I don't care. What I really hope she
:12:05. > :12:07.does on Thursday as I hope she makes a big announcement in public that
:12:08. > :12:12.says if you are in EU citizen, you are in work in Britain you are not
:12:13. > :12:16.only safe but welcome. It looks as if that might happen. I don't want
:12:17. > :12:22.anything in return in other words, a unilateral... That change the EU and
:12:23. > :12:28.puts them into a position that says how about you. I'm far more
:12:29. > :12:34.interested in ensuring we stop and ensure that this is seen to be no's
:12:35. > :12:36.interests because we mattered to them and they matter to us.
:12:37. > :12:38.You'd think just after a general election you could look
:12:39. > :12:41.at the winning party's manifesto and that would be a good guide
:12:42. > :12:43.to what's going to be in the Queen's Speech.
:12:44. > :12:45.However with no majority in the Commons, the deal
:12:46. > :12:48.with the DUP yet to be agreed and some of Theresa May's
:12:49. > :12:51.own backbenchers in a rebellious mood it's harder to predict.
:12:52. > :12:58.Brexit is of course likely to be the central theme,
:12:59. > :13:00.and I predict we'll see a Great Repeal Bill,
:13:01. > :13:05.which will turn all EU laws currently have affecting us
:13:06. > :13:07.which will turn all EU laws currently affecting
:13:08. > :13:10.During the election campaign Theresa May promised legislation
:13:11. > :13:13.to tackle terrorism, that could mean a change in human
:13:14. > :13:15.rights laws so that tougher restrictions could be
:13:16. > :13:18.Trailed this morning are plans for a series of transport
:13:19. > :13:20.infrastructure bills, including allowing the extension
:13:21. > :13:29.of the HS2 rail line as well as more charging points for electric cars.
:13:30. > :13:32.Plans to put a cap on household energy bills could also appear,
:13:33. > :13:34.especially as it may well be supported by Labour MPs.
:13:35. > :13:37.We could also see a new housing bill that will free up land
:13:38. > :13:40.for more houses to be built, and I expect proposed legislation
:13:41. > :13:49.However now the visions become less clear, the Conservatives
:13:50. > :13:51.did have a number of controversial proposals including dropping
:13:52. > :13:54.the pensions triple lock and making people to fund their social
:13:55. > :13:56.care with their homes, with a lack of support there's
:13:57. > :14:04.a strong chance these won't make it into the speech.
:14:05. > :14:06.Finally the Conservatives were keen
:14:07. > :14:09.but with no overall majority, and many dissenting backbenchers,
:14:10. > :14:11.that could disappear in a puff of smoke.
:14:12. > :14:13.We can talk now to our deputy political
:14:14. > :14:27.editor John Pienaar, who's in Downing Street ...
:14:28. > :14:32.John, this agreement to deal with the DUP in order to give Theresa May
:14:33. > :14:40.and the Conservatives a working majority, is it going to happen?
:14:41. > :14:46.stop I think it is a matter of when, not if, both sides wanted to happen.
:14:47. > :14:50.The Prime Minister does not talk about strength any more for obvious
:14:51. > :14:54.reasons, she talks about stability and certainty. There are no
:14:55. > :14:58.certainty that all left in British politics at the moment, but a deal
:14:59. > :15:02.with the Democratic Unionists, signed and sealed, so the DUP say in
:15:03. > :15:06.advance that they will back the Government on those make or break
:15:07. > :15:10.votes, that would at least give Theresa May's Lovemark more
:15:11. > :15:18.stability than otherwise. I think we will see that unveiled within the
:15:19. > :15:25.next few days. There some uncomfortable choreography. On we
:15:26. > :15:29.go. With the Government still living a precarious situation and Theresa
:15:30. > :15:33.May's situation still more precarious. Could she have called
:15:34. > :15:37.the bluff of the DUP? She did not need any formal arrangement ordeal
:15:38. > :15:41.and as commentators have said it is unlikely that the DUP would support
:15:42. > :15:47.Labour, so why has she bothered to spend so much time on this? I don't
:15:48. > :15:49.think there was any real likelihood of the Democratic Unionist Party
:15:50. > :15:56.being put in a position where they could then be Government's arms
:15:57. > :16:01.behind their back. Hostility to Jeremy Corbyn is well and real. The
:16:02. > :16:05.Government would not have had the DUP lined up against them in the
:16:06. > :16:08.Queen's Speech, but to have a formal deal in the eyes of those behind me
:16:09. > :16:14.gives you that extra bit of stability. The talks leading up to a
:16:15. > :16:17.deal, when unveiled, will give the Government something of a heads up
:16:18. > :16:20.of what they can and cannot do as they marched through the coming
:16:21. > :16:26.parliamentary session. The DUP will not want them to carry on with their
:16:27. > :16:28.plans to water down the guarantee to pensioners or change universal
:16:29. > :16:33.rights to benefits for those getting the winter allowance just at the
:16:34. > :16:37.moment. There are other things. We will have those clearly mapped out,
:16:38. > :16:41.they might have suspected them. They will carry on but it does not mean
:16:42. > :16:44.life will be secure from now on, certainly not Theresa May's, because
:16:45. > :16:49.it is not. We know there will be a Lib Dem
:16:50. > :16:54.leadership contest, he was standing? Said Vince Cable has thrown his hat
:16:55. > :17:01.into the ring. Vince Cable, the great sage of the Liberal Democrat
:17:02. > :17:05.party, joined the battle. Norman Lammers ready and waiting, Ed Davey,
:17:06. > :17:15.a former Cabinet minister like Vince Cable and Norman Lamb. Now that Jo
:17:16. > :17:20.Swinson has said that she is not doing it, the way is clear for Ed
:17:21. > :17:23.Davey, I expected to say he is in. Maybe some more horses will also
:17:24. > :17:25.join the race. Thank you, John Pienaar.
:17:26. > :17:27.We've been joined by Labour's shadow trade secretary
:17:28. > :17:31.Barry Gardiner, and by the former Conservative Chief
:17:32. > :17:42.Do my prediction is that right? Not too far away. I don't know, as far
:17:43. > :17:48.as I can see the speech will be dominated to some extent by Brexit,
:17:49. > :17:53.the conversation you just had with Digby, the bill is necessary to
:17:54. > :17:57.deliver us leaving the EU and some very important domestic matters. You
:17:58. > :18:00.mention transport infrastructure, that is really important to make
:18:01. > :18:06.sure the economy fires on all cylinders. And also issues like
:18:07. > :18:10.updating mental health legislation to make sure that the country works
:18:11. > :18:15.for everybody, those are really important things that will bring the
:18:16. > :18:18.country together. Do you accept broadly, as your colleague David
:18:19. > :18:25.Davis has said, that because of the election result your Queen's Speech
:18:26. > :18:29.will be pruned somewhat? We need to listen, the Prime Minister was very
:18:30. > :18:32.clear, the result is not what we would have wanted, in a democratic
:18:33. > :18:36.country you need to listen to the election result and the Prime
:18:37. > :18:39.Minister will reflect on our manifesto commitments and what we
:18:40. > :18:43.should put in the Queen's Speech. We have had a big decision last year on
:18:44. > :18:47.leaving the European Union, we have had a general election and I think
:18:48. > :18:51.the public wants us to deal with a hand we have, the Government should
:18:52. > :18:55.get on with governing in the national interest, that is what the
:18:56. > :18:59.Prime Minister is doing. Barry Gardiner, will you let them go than
:19:00. > :19:05.with the Queen's Speech that we made some suggestions? The interesting
:19:06. > :19:08.thing about Mark referred to in how Brexit will dominate things in the
:19:09. > :19:14.future is if you listen to what Philip Hammond said this morning,
:19:15. > :19:19.the Mansion House speech, he has swallowed entirely the Labour
:19:20. > :19:27.playbook. And our Labour manifesto came out loud and clear. It was fair
:19:28. > :19:33.and managed migration, it was about a jobs first Brexit, it was about no
:19:34. > :19:42.deal being a very, very bad deal for the UK. The nationalisation of
:19:43. > :19:45.water, electricity and railways?! You are a wonderful commentator but
:19:46. > :19:52.you are on the sidelines. Are we talking about Brexit? About Brexit,
:19:53. > :19:58.absolutely. He has even said today that he would look at remaining in
:19:59. > :20:03.the customs union. I take your point that you are saying that he has, in
:20:04. > :20:07.your mind, taken on board some of the recommendations you made, but
:20:08. > :20:13.she said that freedom of movement should end in terms of Brexit, you
:20:14. > :20:17.said that in you're manifesto? We said that when you leave the
:20:18. > :20:22.European Union you leave the internal market, meaning that all
:20:23. > :20:27.four freedoms end. That is the same as the Government? That is just the
:20:28. > :20:34.mechanics. That is what Labour has said, that is what the Conservatives
:20:35. > :20:42.say. We would put in plays fair and manage... Sure... The result is the
:20:43. > :20:47.same. On the customs union the Labour manifesto says the UK will be
:20:48. > :20:54.the customs union and not remain in it, has that change? We said we
:20:55. > :20:58.would focus on the outcomes and the structures are secondary. What we
:20:59. > :21:03.want are the benefits without all the additional bureaucratic burdens
:21:04. > :21:10.at the Borders, all the benefits of that, we said that whether that is
:21:11. > :21:14.done in a new bilateral relationship with the European Union, a bespoke
:21:15. > :21:21.deal, or whether it is done through some modifications... Have you
:21:22. > :21:25.swallowed the entire Labour manifesto, as Barry Gardner puts it,
:21:26. > :21:29.regarding Brexit? I read Philip Hammond's speech that he delivered
:21:30. > :21:34.this morning, it is completely consistent with the Prime Minister's
:21:35. > :21:39.Lancaster house speech. If you go through her 12 negotiations, it is
:21:40. > :21:43.what we said. We want a special partnership with the EU, we want a
:21:44. > :21:46.free trade deal, we want frictionless borders, that has been
:21:47. > :21:50.the position from the beginning, particularly making sure we have a
:21:51. > :21:53.frictionless border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern
:21:54. > :21:58.Ireland. That is very important for both countries and the peace
:21:59. > :22:01.process. It is one of the great virtues that that would
:22:02. > :22:10.facilitate... There are plenty of other ways of dealing with it and we
:22:11. > :22:13.are clear that you have to leave the single market when you leave the EU
:22:14. > :22:15.otherwise you are bound by freedom of movement, the court and playing
:22:16. > :22:18.in huge contributions. I think if you stayed in the single market the
:22:19. > :22:22.public would not think you have left the EU. It is getting a good deal...
:22:23. > :22:24.The Chancellor made the case for a new form of customs agreement with
:22:25. > :22:29.the current border arrangement which presumably means agreeing to some
:22:30. > :22:35.form of the EU oversight for some years following Britain's exit from
:22:36. > :22:39.the union? The Prime Minister was clear in Lancaster Harwich speech
:22:40. > :22:42.that she wanted to see a phased implementation Brexit, which is exec
:22:43. > :22:47.another chance is that this morning -- in the Lancaster house speech. We
:22:48. > :22:51.want a smooth exit, we want to make sure we get a good deal for British
:22:52. > :22:55.business to consider being successful. Digby Jones, do you not
:22:56. > :23:00.think there has been a change, at least in tone and in terms of trying
:23:01. > :23:05.to reach out to the EU partners? Philip Hammond has said the economy
:23:06. > :23:10.must be at the centre, ahead of immigration concerns? Is he right?
:23:11. > :23:15.As I listen to these gentlemen I was thinking that the average person
:23:16. > :23:27.watching would say this is precisely why we hate
:23:28. > :23:31.politicians. Labour said this, Tories want this... Why don't you
:23:32. > :23:33.think, this is in the national interest that you bury your party
:23:34. > :23:36.differences, you had your scrap at the general election and the nation
:23:37. > :23:38.once the deal to be done. There is so much common ground between you, I
:23:39. > :23:41.actually don't care if Philip Hammond spoke out if your playbook.
:23:42. > :23:44.It is irrelevant whether you are delighted. It is irrelevant whether
:23:45. > :23:48.he did not. What is important is that the bulk of the country are
:23:49. > :23:53.looking for you guys to show a bit of maturity and blessed tribalism.
:23:54. > :23:58.Let slip that the arithmetic, you have to get a Queen's Speech through
:23:59. > :24:02.-- let's look at the arithmetic. You know what this is about, if we are
:24:03. > :24:06.looking ahead to important votes like the Great Repeal Bill, and I
:24:07. > :24:11.will ask Barry on the Labour position on that, will you reach out
:24:12. > :24:16.to pro-Brexit Labour MPs to come on board, not you personally, but the
:24:17. > :24:21.Tories, in order to get through this important legislation without a
:24:22. > :24:25.majority? Responding to Digby, in answer to your first question I said
:24:26. > :24:29.that the whole point about Theresa May forming a Government was to go
:24:30. > :24:34.than in the national interest, implementing the Brexit decision and
:24:35. > :24:38.the result of the election. The interpretation of that decision has
:24:39. > :24:40.been reopened because she did not get a decisive victory. So my
:24:41. > :24:48.question about the party arithmetic... We put the Queen's
:24:49. > :24:53.Speech forward. On the Great Repeal Bill, essentially taking existing EU
:24:54. > :24:56.legislation, putting it in British legislation so that when we leave
:24:57. > :25:01.the EU business the public know what the deal is, we will not be changing
:25:02. > :25:05.policy, we will copy across what we have. I don't think there is a
:25:06. > :25:09.massive difference between us and Labour. Arguing about what we change
:25:10. > :25:13.that too is for subsequent political debate, copying across to protect
:25:14. > :25:15.workers' rights, protect the environment, I don't think there
:25:16. > :25:20.would be a massive difference and we would expect to get their support.
:25:21. > :25:25.Labour will support the Government in the Queen's Speech? What we said
:25:26. > :25:30.about the repeal Bill is that we entirely accept that on day one the
:25:31. > :25:33.Government has repeatedly said it, on day one the rights and
:25:34. > :25:38.protections currently existing in EU law will be transposed into UK law.
:25:39. > :25:44.The difference is that they will be transposed into UK law and they will
:25:45. > :25:50.not have the protection of primary UK law. Would you support it? We
:25:51. > :25:55.will promote your reservations, but in order for these things to pass,
:25:56. > :25:59.will Labour support it or not? There is a better way of doing it, that is
:26:00. > :26:05.what we will put forward. We do not think it is right to have those
:26:06. > :26:07.protections at the whim of a Secretary of State who through
:26:08. > :26:12.secondary legislation could abolish... You will seek to amend
:26:13. > :26:15.it? We will seek to do what they say they are doing, to take them with
:26:16. > :26:20.the same strength as they have in Europe and the same force, because
:26:21. > :26:24.of the umbrella of protection in Europe provides, into UK law and
:26:25. > :26:29.ensure they are embedded their... This is a potential problem. Barry
:26:30. > :26:33.Gardiner is part of the opposition, that is what oppositions do, they
:26:34. > :26:38.oppose things that they say are still in the national interest. We
:26:39. > :26:43.oppose them in the national interest because we believe... They say the
:26:44. > :26:47.national interest, you may say they are not being responsible, but it
:26:48. > :26:50.leaves you with a problem? It will be an interesting test for Labour
:26:51. > :26:54.whether they meant what they said about respecting the result of the
:26:55. > :26:58.reprimand on implementing Brexit. If every time we bring forward
:26:59. > :27:02.legislation we are simply putting the rules in legislation and we will
:27:03. > :27:10.be setting out why we are doing that to give business a clear steer when
:27:11. > :27:13.we read so everyone knows the rules, if Labour opposes those sort of
:27:14. > :27:16.things then the public will conclude they are not in favour of delivering
:27:17. > :27:22.Brexit at all. You will be painted as an irresponsible opposition?
:27:23. > :27:27.There are rights and protections currently existing in Europe which
:27:28. > :27:31.we know for a fact senior government ministers have opposed. We are
:27:32. > :27:35.talking about the clean-air act, for example. The clean air directive
:27:36. > :27:40.which repeatedly this Government has failed to act upon in the interests
:27:41. > :27:47.of this country. We are talking about the habitats directive which
:27:48. > :27:49.Government ministers... The new Secretary of State for the
:27:50. > :27:53.environment has previously gone on the record as saying that he is
:27:54. > :28:00.against it. These are precisely the very important environmental and
:28:01. > :28:04.social protections... Barry, you arrogantly say that people like me
:28:05. > :28:09.sit on the sidelines. We, the business community, pay your wages.
:28:10. > :28:13.We create the wealth that pays the tax that build schools and
:28:14. > :28:16.hospitals. We don't sit on the sidelines, my friend. Do they not
:28:17. > :28:25.have a right to oppose...? ALL TALK AT ONCE Barry, wait a
:28:26. > :28:28.moment. The question was would you get the
:28:29. > :28:32.Great Repeal Bill through so business can say we are starting? I
:28:33. > :28:36.don't want a conversation about whether you approve of the Habitat
:28:37. > :28:40.directive for the so-and-so directive, it was a simple question,
:28:41. > :28:44.can business think we are on our way? If all I get is a political
:28:45. > :28:49.answer it is not quite what we on the sidelines want to hear. The
:28:50. > :28:56.first response is that neither Digby or I have been actually businessmen
:28:57. > :29:00.for about 20 years. As we speak I chair six companies, I think that
:29:01. > :29:07.qualifies me. Let's not compete, answer the question. The whole point
:29:08. > :29:11.about what Digby says is he is very happy to see certain protections
:29:12. > :29:14.that exist in European legislation done away with and the whole
:29:15. > :29:18.argument that Mark is putting forward is that on day one all these
:29:19. > :29:23.rights and protections will be the same, what we do thereafter is a
:29:24. > :29:28.matter for them, but it is not. It is a slippery slope and without the
:29:29. > :29:34.solid protections of being in primary legislation, all the social
:29:35. > :29:39.protections, the Labour protections will be deregulated away, that is
:29:40. > :29:43.the signal... Let Mark reply. Can you guarantee that these protections
:29:44. > :29:47.will be saved? We and the Prime Minister have been very clear both
:29:48. > :29:50.in the Lancaster house speech at the manifesto that as far as workers'
:29:51. > :29:55.rights, environmental protection, all of that legislation is being
:29:56. > :30:00.copied from European legislation into UK legislation so that when we
:30:01. > :30:05.leave, all of those things... Let him finish. For future debates,
:30:06. > :30:10.clearly we can all debate about what should employment law and
:30:11. > :30:14.environmental law look like, but when we beat everything will be the
:30:15. > :30:17.same so that business has the certainty to plan and continue to be
:30:18. > :30:20.successful. I think Barry is not being straight with people when he
:30:21. > :30:25.suggests that somehow we will change all these things.
:30:26. > :30:32.If you are saying you are sticking broadly to the commitments that you
:30:33. > :30:36.make, why is Theresa May still locked in talks with the DUP, it's
:30:37. > :30:39.pretty clear they would not support the Labour Party and of labour were
:30:40. > :30:44.going to form a government in terms of numbers come off she continuing
:30:45. > :30:49.with the DUP, why doesn't she just called their bluff and said support
:30:50. > :30:53.the Queen's speech. I am not involved in the discussions, I am a
:30:54. > :30:57.backbencher but my guess is she is trying to go through, work out what
:30:58. > :31:01.we can deliver, maximise what we can deliver from the manifesto and have
:31:02. > :31:05.that conversation with the DUP. They broadly share our views on things
:31:06. > :31:08.like defence and security and things like that, they've been clear about
:31:09. > :31:15.the overall position but we want to make sure we can maximise what we
:31:16. > :31:18.can deliver. Taking a Digby's point on the national interest. Barry, I
:31:19. > :31:20.am going to have to leave it there, you have both had a good crack at
:31:21. > :31:23.this, Barry, yes you have! Tomorrow will be the Queen's
:31:24. > :31:25.64th Queen's Speech. But it might look at bit different
:31:26. > :31:37.to normal as our Ellie For the second time since he came to
:31:38. > :31:42.the throne, His Majesty The King... The sovereign leads Buckingham
:31:43. > :31:48.Palace, escorted by the household cab, that's just under 120 horses,
:31:49. > :31:52.just the same for well under a century, since 1852, before they'd
:31:53. > :31:56.even invented the Daily Politics. The king or for the best part of the
:31:57. > :32:00.last seven decades, the Queen arrives at Parliament in order to
:32:01. > :32:03.deliver his or her speech, the list written by ministers of the law is
:32:04. > :32:07.the government hopes to get approved by parliament over the coming
:32:08. > :32:11.session. But this time things will be a little different. This year
:32:12. > :32:15.they are scaling things back, the Queen will turn up your two
:32:16. > :32:23.sovereigns gate in a posh car rather than her gold carriage, there won't
:32:24. > :32:27.be a horse inside. The dress code is different too. The Queen won't be in
:32:28. > :32:32.her ceremonial garb, it will be day dress rather than robes, that also
:32:33. > :32:36.means she won't mean any page boys to help her with all that material.
:32:37. > :32:40.She won for her crime either but don't worry, it was ill be there,
:32:41. > :32:45.having arrived in its own car and placed on a table next to her. And
:32:46. > :32:49.the peers watching will still wear their ermine, perfectly for the 34
:32:50. > :32:56.degrees forecast for tomorrow. Last time there was a scaled back Queen's
:32:57. > :33:00.Speech was in 1974 following Ted Heath's snap election. Buckingham
:33:01. > :33:02.Palace, the government and parliamentary parties agreed to do
:33:03. > :33:05.the same this year because there wasn't enough time to rehearse with
:33:06. > :33:10.the horses hangs to trooping the colour last weekend. So the goings
:33:11. > :33:15.on in Parliament may be less flashy than normal, a temporary studios
:33:16. > :33:19.belonging to the broadcasters certainly are not, this year's
:33:20. > :33:22.Queen's Speech may be less of the pomp of the circumstances mean it
:33:23. > :33:23.will be as closely scrutinised as ever.
:33:24. > :33:29.We've been joined by the royal historian Kate Williams.
:33:30. > :33:36.Are you disappointed it's not going to be the full regalia? We have seen
:33:37. > :33:40.this before, we soared in 1974 after Edward Heath called a snap election.
:33:41. > :33:43.I'm more disappointed we are not having a Queen's Speech next year,
:33:44. > :33:48.because the principle is it's going to be dressed down this year because
:33:49. > :33:54.of trooping the colour, the Crown is going in a car, not on the Queen's
:33:55. > :33:57.head, but the Palace says we will have a dressed down setup and next
:33:58. > :34:01.year we are back to the full regalia but that's not going to happen.
:34:02. > :34:06.Because we have to Magarira your session based on Brexit but critics
:34:07. > :34:09.might say it is because they are worried they might get through
:34:10. > :34:13.another Queen's Speech. We gave you the broad outline, will it be
:34:14. > :34:17.totally different? It will be totally different, we won't see the
:34:18. > :34:22.horse and carriage, we won't see what we expect to see the tourists
:34:23. > :34:26.lined up to see, she will be in a car, dressed down, no page boys and
:34:27. > :34:32.the Crown will be carried in as opposed to being actually worn. In
:34:33. > :34:37.1974 we had the cap of maintenance and the sword and Crown weren't even
:34:38. > :34:41.carried in, at least we get the crown even though it's not on her
:34:42. > :34:46.head. There are other traditions that will carry on this time, an MP
:34:47. > :34:49.is always taken hostage if you like in the Palace, explain the
:34:50. > :34:54.background. The MP is taken hostage in the Palace, usually one of the
:34:55. > :34:58.backbenchers and this is because the monarch is not allowed to enter
:34:59. > :35:03.Parliament, dating back to the time of Charles and at the monarch was to
:35:04. > :35:08.stay was to cause chaos then that MP is a hostage. They are hostage to
:35:09. > :35:11.fortune, sitting in Buckingham Palace, watching the television over
:35:12. > :35:16.there. Amazing that tradition continues. And the great tradition,
:35:17. > :35:22.searching the Palace of Westminster for the gunpowder plot bombs, I
:35:23. > :35:26.mean, the tradition that we have dates back to Edward VII, he was the
:35:27. > :35:31.one who bought in to all the pomp and ceremony, Queen Dettori opened
:35:32. > :35:34.Parliament, less so after Prince Albert died but the pomp and
:35:35. > :35:40.ceremony and circumstance was brought in by Edward VII, it's quite
:35:41. > :35:44.an old tradition. Yes, it is. One of the other things that struck me,
:35:45. > :35:48.debate about when it was going to happen, and the date hadn't been
:35:49. > :35:54.clarified that was an argument put forward that's because it takes a
:35:55. > :35:57.long time for the Inc to dry on the goatskin parchment? But it's not
:35:58. > :36:03.actually goatskin. It's not made of gold, it's a special parchment, a
:36:04. > :36:06.vegan parchment made specially to last 500 years, I don't know how
:36:07. > :36:11.they can guarantee that, I don't know how we can test that or take it
:36:12. > :36:15.back if it didn't but this is a special parchment made of paper that
:36:16. > :36:22.is called goatskin. It's supposed to last 500 years so? That's correct,
:36:23. > :36:27.I've been where they have the rules, it lasts just as well as those ones
:36:28. > :36:34.from the 17th century. Are you going to miss it? Not really, I am quite a
:36:35. > :36:38.pomp and ceremony sort of person but sitting in 34 degrees of heat in
:36:39. > :36:43.this massive cloak, I have to say, if we are going to do it for obvious
:36:44. > :36:48.reasons, let's do it all, let's have a day when none of this happens, I
:36:49. > :36:52.get that, although I quite like the pomp and circumstance, I quite enjoy
:36:53. > :36:57.it. You would like some fashion, summer and winter uniform? For two
:36:58. > :37:02.or three reasons you mention, we are dressing down, that stressed I'm
:37:03. > :37:09.completely this time but then... Shorts and T-shirts? Trainers? Why
:37:10. > :37:14.not? Put your shades on. It's a bit half baked, hip but not there, I
:37:15. > :37:18.would do the whole thing for good reasons or not. Personally I would
:37:19. > :37:25.carry on as Edward VII intended but if not, the Crown is not there, yet
:37:26. > :37:30.it is, it's coming in a car. You can imagine some newspaper carrying some
:37:31. > :37:35.satire about the crime's day, I got picked up in a car, I sat next to
:37:36. > :37:41.Her Majesty. And it will be very hot. It is, you saw guards men
:37:42. > :37:45.fainting at trooping the colour, Her Majesty is the strongest of all is
:37:46. > :37:49.all but she's still is in her 90s. But I do think it's rather a shame,
:37:50. > :37:55.increasingly we are seeing her handing more of her duties and this
:37:56. > :37:59.is a key duty for her, it is vital, she is head of state and it is vital
:38:00. > :38:02.duty but still, as we start to move towards thinking that we may begin
:38:03. > :38:07.to see some of her final state openings because she may get the job
:38:08. > :38:10.to Prince Charles eventually, it is rather a shame that we are seeing
:38:11. > :38:14.rather fewer but there have been times before then they dressed down.
:38:15. > :38:17.Queen Victoria complained in 1880 some of the ladies were not dressed
:38:18. > :38:24.correctly and children were allowed in. God forbid, never worked with
:38:25. > :38:25.children and animals. That's because we are getting old, Kate Williams,
:38:26. > :38:27.thank you. Now, following the terror attack
:38:28. > :38:29.on a mosque in London yesterday, we spoke to Miqdaad Versi
:38:30. > :38:32.from the Muslim Council of Britain. While Mr Versi praised
:38:33. > :38:34.the response to the attack, he was critical of anti-Muslim
:38:35. > :38:36.sentiment which, he said, could lead to this kind
:38:37. > :38:38.of violent Islamophobia. We've talked very much about hate
:38:39. > :38:46.speakers being unacceptable, And now we know that the BBC
:38:47. > :38:52.and many others will not have Anjem Choudary and others on the TV,
:38:53. > :38:55.despite having had them in the past. What about the same
:38:56. > :38:57.people on the right? What about the people
:38:58. > :38:59.like Douglas Murray, who just last week came on the show
:39:00. > :39:02.and said less Islam That kind of attitude
:39:03. > :39:06.within even the BBC, within a show like this,
:39:07. > :39:08.giving a platform to people like that to spread their
:39:09. > :39:11.hate is unacceptable. Well, nobody from the Henry Jackson
:39:12. > :39:17.Society was with us for that discussion yesterday,
:39:18. > :39:19.but we are joined now by Tom Wilson, who is a Fellow
:39:20. > :39:22.at the Henry Jackson Society Centre for the Response to
:39:23. > :39:33.Radicalisation and Terrorism. Welcome to the Daily Politics, you
:39:34. > :39:37.heard the comments made, what was your comments to what was said? I
:39:38. > :39:42.think it's an accept the ball that people like Douglas Murray and those
:39:43. > :39:46.of us in the Henry Jackson Society who had been focused on countering
:39:47. > :39:52.extremism and extremist ideology, of defending liberal values and Chrissy
:39:53. > :39:57.should be equated with extremists like Anjem Choudary. It undermines
:39:58. > :40:01.the attire effort to undermine extremism. Except Douglas Murray
:40:02. > :40:06.said Les Islam in general is obviously a good thing, he was
:40:07. > :40:09.drawing parallels a few weeks ago on Sunday Politics when I interviewed
:40:10. > :40:13.him between the number of Muslims in the country and the rate of
:40:14. > :40:17.terrorist attacks. Is that not hate speech? No, I think as you know from
:40:18. > :40:23.that programme he was talking about extremists and radicals, he said how
:40:24. > :40:26.much he acts the Liberals, the moderates... He said they are in a
:40:27. > :40:30.minority and he didn't think they would succeed and therefore he
:40:31. > :40:34.didn't think more Islam was a good thing which in some people's minds
:40:35. > :40:38.sounds like some set of closing process. Not at all, at the Henry
:40:39. > :40:43.Jackson Society we've been quite clear about combating a whole range
:40:44. > :40:46.of extremism on the far right as well as among Islamist and that's
:40:47. > :40:49.why we support the government's prevent programme focusing on
:40:50. > :40:55.tackling far right but the goal is Asian as well as within the Islamic
:40:56. > :41:00.community as well. Do you accept that Douglas Murray's comments about
:41:01. > :41:04.having less Islam is inflammatory? I don't think it was inflammatory
:41:05. > :41:08.because I think what he was saying, if we look at this country work we
:41:09. > :41:12.have a large Muslim community and a wide spectrum of different police,
:41:13. > :41:15.on the far end, the most extreme ends there are problematic views and
:41:16. > :41:20.we would want a lot less of that kind of Islam, I think that's what
:41:21. > :41:25.Douglas has always focused his career on, seeking to combat.
:41:26. > :41:29.Except, B Jones, let me read you the quality made in the original
:41:30. > :41:31.interview, he said Eastern Europe doesn't have an Islamic terrorism
:41:32. > :41:38.problem because it doesn't have much Islam. France has the worst problem
:41:39. > :41:42.because it has the most Islam. Now he doesn't say it's all to do with
:41:43. > :41:46.extremism, he is talking about Islam, are we ever he says going to
:41:47. > :41:52.draw any lessons from this, apparently not? Douglas Murray, is
:41:53. > :41:56.he right? I am not saying he intentionally or didn't
:41:57. > :41:59.intentionally forget, what this country needs less fundamental
:42:00. > :42:04.Islam. If he was talking about it generically I think he's completely
:42:05. > :42:08.wrong because you can't... You don't want less or more of Judaism, less
:42:09. > :42:15.or more Catholicism, less or more of any... Buddhism or Hindu... What it
:42:16. > :42:20.is, I think the Islamic community house two sort itself out better to
:42:21. > :42:24.deal with its own problem of fundamentalism and statistically, if
:42:25. > :42:27.you have a large Muslim community, almost statistically by definition
:42:28. > :42:31.you will have more extremism simply because there will be a percentage
:42:32. > :42:36.of the population, of the community but it's not a function, it's a
:42:37. > :42:39.statement of fact, if you have more of a certain type you will have more
:42:40. > :42:45.of the extreme of that certain type but I don't think it's on to say
:42:46. > :42:51.that a nation needs more or less of a belief. What it was need is less
:42:52. > :42:54.of a damaging... End of it which is fundamentalism and as you say, that
:42:55. > :42:59.could be the far right as much as it could be Islam. Do you agree? I
:43:00. > :43:02.think what was specifically so problematic about these comments was
:43:03. > :43:07.the equation with Anjem Choudary, who is a hate preacher, who supports
:43:08. > :43:09.Islamic State Anderson prison, comparing somebody like that to
:43:10. > :43:13.Douglas who tries to counter extremism is it that macro
:43:14. > :43:18.concerning, the Muslim Council of Britain haphazard that Racal has had
:43:19. > :43:20.its problems in the past, and they are trying to defame and silence
:43:21. > :43:25.those who are trying to combat the problem. Do you think right-wing
:43:26. > :43:30.extremism is dealt with equally to Islamic fundamentalism? Certainly in
:43:31. > :43:35.the government's counter extremism strategy it is, they seek to combat
:43:36. > :43:39.that two ideologies but the National conversation hasn't focused as much
:43:40. > :43:43.as it could do on the far right as it needs to, particularly as we've
:43:44. > :43:48.seen a rise in hate crimes against Muslims as well as recently with
:43:49. > :43:52.this attack on Jo Cox, it's a serious problem. It's a problem
:43:53. > :43:55.which critics might argue and maybe the Muslim Council of Britain would
:43:56. > :44:00.say the government has taken its eye off the ball because of the focus
:44:01. > :44:04.rightly on Islamic extremism and fundamentalism. You think the Henry
:44:05. > :44:08.Jackson Society has played a role in that perhaps focusing too much on
:44:09. > :44:11.one side of extremism and not the other? We've produced research on
:44:12. > :44:15.countering the far right on campus and we've been supportive of the
:44:16. > :44:19.government strategy prevent which focuses on far right referrals as
:44:20. > :44:24.well as Islamist ones and we say it's correct to do both of those. Do
:44:25. > :44:28.you think America -- in your mind they are treated both equally in the
:44:29. > :44:33.pub in mind? No, I was thinking this this morning, there are many
:44:34. > :44:37.reasons, one is more global than the other, I think it's fur to say, one
:44:38. > :44:40.has a bigger infrastructure than the other and one is more in the public
:44:41. > :44:43.mind because there have been more incidents of terrorism caused more
:44:44. > :44:47.by one than the other and that's factual. The terrorism response
:44:48. > :44:50.tends to be guided to one because statistically there is more of it
:44:51. > :44:53.but I don't think the public mind sees it in the same way and I
:44:54. > :45:00.thought this morning, I forget his name, the guy in Norway... And are
:45:01. > :45:05.spearing braided. That had nothing to do... That had to do with far
:45:06. > :45:10.right extremism and socialism, and that was evil and disgusting and had
:45:11. > :45:15.nothing to do with Islam and he murdered 60... War, I think,
:45:16. > :45:19.actually. But was just so utterly disgraceful and was nothing to do
:45:20. > :45:24.with Islam. So we have got to understand there is this and the
:45:25. > :45:28.more you have won the more you have the other and I think our society
:45:29. > :45:31.needs to understand that more and I think France probably has the same
:45:32. > :45:35.problem, for all the obvious political reasons. I keep very much
:45:36. > :45:40.for coming in from the Henry Jackson Society. We are getting the ports
:45:41. > :45:44.that the deal, the agreement with the DUP, this would be ahead of the
:45:45. > :45:47.Queen's Speech tomorrow is beginning to take for Maurice almost agreed
:45:48. > :45:50.and will bring you confirmation of that as and when it happens.
:45:51. > :45:52.Ed Miliband's career took a surprising turn yesterday -
:45:53. > :45:54.the former Labour leader made his debut as a radio
:45:55. > :45:57.presenter, standing in for Jeremy Vine on Radio 2.
:45:58. > :45:59.Next week the former Conservative leader Iain Duncan Smith will take
:46:00. > :46:05.Let's hear how Ed Miliband got on yesterday afternoon.
:46:06. > :46:08.It's Ed Miliband, I'm sitting in for Jeremy Vine.
:46:09. > :46:12.A year after the referendum, today is the day Brexit
:46:13. > :46:16.Are you someone who is optimistic about the outcome and says people
:46:17. > :46:21.We've got some comments from our listeners.
:46:22. > :46:23.Liam e-mails with a particularly personal one for me.
:46:24. > :46:30.I met you in the Mallard in Cusworth..."
:46:31. > :46:32.- I can recommend it - "..the other week while you
:46:33. > :46:36.I'm a Labour voter but voted Leave on the back of all
:46:37. > :46:39.Alistair from Isla Island in Scotland joins,
:46:40. > :46:41.I think that's just Isla, actually, in Scotland.
:46:42. > :46:48.Mr Vine's made the odd mistake as well, so don't worry.
:46:49. > :46:52.Because this is so important, Ed, that my mum is not
:46:53. > :46:54.a prejudiced person, and that's why I find Brexit
:46:55. > :46:56.and talking to my mum about Brexit so difficult.
:46:57. > :46:59.Andy, we are incredibly grateful to you both
:47:00. > :47:02.for sharing your story and your emotion.
:47:03. > :47:12.And we've been joined by the Telegraph's radio
:47:13. > :47:14.critic Gillian Reynolds, and the presenter of
:47:15. > :47:18.The Nigel Farage Show on LBC - he may also be familiar to some
:47:19. > :47:23.of you from his former career in politics...
:47:24. > :47:30.Or maybe not so former, but we will ask that later! Is somebody
:47:31. > :47:36.experienced as a radio presenter, how did he get on? Not bad.
:47:37. > :47:40.Politicians should be good at this in one way because we are used to
:47:41. > :47:44.dealing with arguments, we are used to one side of an argument, a
:47:45. > :47:48.counterargument, whenever you do an interview with devious like you you
:47:49. > :47:53.think, what will be that argument be? The problem a lot of politicians
:47:54. > :48:00.have is that they are so scripted. They stand up, read from an autocue,
:48:01. > :48:03.it is all a bit... Politics these days is a bit wooden. To make the
:48:04. > :48:06.transition from being a party leader to present you have to lose that and
:48:07. > :48:12.listen up. You did not think he was natural
:48:13. > :48:17.enough? It was his birthday. I will not be unkind... You can be, there
:48:18. > :48:22.are no rules. Let judge him on Friday. I have been doing it for six
:48:23. > :48:26.months, I am very inexperienced, but I feel I give it best when I am very
:48:27. > :48:31.laid back and relaxed and it is almost like you are chatting to a
:48:32. > :48:36.friend at home. Radio presenting has to be conversational? They are very
:48:37. > :48:40.different shows, Mr Farage's shows are the one-man band, constantly
:48:41. > :48:46.talking, the Jeremy Vine show is very structured and largely run by
:48:47. > :48:51.the editor, he will be on his years saying go to the music, or whatever,
:48:52. > :48:56.he has to play records, take the calls, run to time. It is very
:48:57. > :49:00.tightly structured with a very experienced editor, it is quite
:49:01. > :49:04.different. What did you think? He was not bad at all, I think he
:49:05. > :49:10.exceeded expectations. He was better than I thought he would be in terms
:49:11. > :49:17.of the sounds of it. He ran a tremendous risk, because like yours,
:49:18. > :49:21.Mr Farage, he has a voice that impressionists love! Is that a bad
:49:22. > :49:28.thing? Is it the real thing?! You did not think it was him? I think
:49:29. > :49:32.introducing records is quite hard, having done it myself along with the
:49:33. > :49:37.current affairs programme. I was hopeless at doing the music. Of
:49:38. > :49:42.course there are the records, when you are a BBC presenter you are not
:49:43. > :49:48.allowed to have an opinion. Now, what I do with LBC, I am allowed an
:49:49. > :49:54.opinion. And off, rules I can say pretty much what I want but I had to
:49:55. > :49:58.invite the other side of it. -- under off rules. It makes a big
:49:59. > :50:02.difference if you are free to speak your mind, especially with the type
:50:03. > :50:07.of show you are doing. I do not think I would last very long on the
:50:08. > :50:11.BBC. I am not sure you will ever find out! Is it a good idea for
:50:12. > :50:17.former and current politicians to do this? Ed Miliband is yesterday,
:50:18. > :50:27.politically, so he has the freedom... And Iain Duncan Smith is
:50:28. > :50:31.tomorrow?! You ought to be a politician! Nigel, your politics
:50:32. > :50:36.career is over so it gives you bigger freedom. I am not sure
:50:37. > :50:42.Edwards taking a risk because he is yesterday... He has nothing to use.
:50:43. > :50:46.-- nothing to lose. But Nigel, you made a good point that politics
:50:47. > :50:54.these days, it is so scripted, you must do this and bad. That is why
:50:55. > :50:59.Macron, Trump, Farage, Corbyn appeal. You and Corbyn could not be
:51:00. > :51:03.further apart but you appeal to the public because you are not the
:51:04. > :51:09.traditional scripted politician. Ed Miliband was. Are the listeners
:51:10. > :51:15.being well served by Nigel and Ed? Yes, I think so, except Nigel, I am
:51:16. > :51:19.sure he will not mind me saying, is a bit of a one trick pony here
:51:20. > :51:25.because he has one issue and he goes on and on about it. Everyone tells
:51:26. > :51:30.me I have the best job in the world and then I point out to them but I
:51:31. > :51:36.have to listen to you at least once a week. And then they quail. Because
:51:37. > :51:39.when people bring up and say you were wrong about this and that you
:51:40. > :51:46.say that was very interesting, next call. Are you cutting people off who
:51:47. > :51:51.do not agree with you?! There are other presenters on that show who
:51:52. > :51:56.demean people who have an alternative opinion. The only time I
:51:57. > :52:02.would cut somebody off... You are mercilessly polite. I am. What about
:52:03. > :52:08.this former political career, is it definitely former? Lord Jones has
:52:09. > :52:14.written me off, that is the end of it! Don't get out of it that way,
:52:15. > :52:18.would you stand for leader? Will you get back into politics? I am leading
:52:19. > :52:22.a group in the European Parliament, I am still in politics. That is
:52:23. > :52:27.where the re-negotiations of the British Steel will take place. I am
:52:28. > :52:34.in a very good position to oversee it. Will you stand for Ukip leader
:52:35. > :52:42.again? I have not decided. It is not ruled out. There is a fabulous wine
:52:43. > :52:50.cellar at brussels, we should make a part of the renegotiation, you said?
:52:51. > :52:55.Could you advise? One final piece of advice, the British public who voted
:52:56. > :53:00.Ukip actually voted away to make sure this deal was done, and I think
:53:01. > :53:05.you have a moral as well as possibly representational obligation to those
:53:06. > :53:14.who voted Ukip to ensure that we come out holding the feet to the
:53:15. > :53:19.fire, you would be very good. Far fewer people voted for Ukip... I was
:53:20. > :53:24.trying to take it away from party politics. You are seen as Brexit.
:53:25. > :53:27.Which is why I will see this thing through 42-macro years in the
:53:28. > :53:31.European Parliament. As far as Ukip is concerned, I am still thinking.
:53:32. > :53:33.Tellers when you have made up mind, thank you both.
:53:34. > :53:36.So, in the run up to this month's general election the opinion polls
:53:37. > :53:39.were divided on what would be the likely outcome, but most
:53:40. > :53:41.were predicting an outright win for the Conservatives and suggesting
:53:42. > :53:43.a significant Parliamentary majority for Theresa May.
:53:44. > :53:45.That, as we now know, wasn't correct.
:53:46. > :53:49.The polling company Ipsos MORI has been looking at how different groups
:53:50. > :53:51.of voters actually voted when faced with a ballot box.
:53:52. > :53:53.While Labour targeted young people in this campaign,
:53:54. > :53:55.the stark contrast between young and old was the biggest
:53:56. > :53:59.since the 1970s, with the swing to Labour coming from those under
:54:00. > :54:01.the age of 44, whereas the swing to the Conservatives
:54:02. > :54:09.Perhaps less expected was the class divisions,
:54:10. > :54:12.with more middle class voters favouring Labour and working
:54:13. > :54:16.class voters moving towards the Conservatives.
:54:17. > :54:19.Theresa May's party also had a large lead amongst those with no
:54:20. > :54:24.education qualifications, while graduates favoured Labour.
:54:25. > :54:27.But Labour took the lead amongst those who voted Remain in last
:54:28. > :54:29.year's Brexit referendum, with a majority of Leave voters
:54:30. > :54:36.From the other parties, the Lib Dems vote share remained steady,
:54:37. > :54:41.although only half of their voters had also backed them
:54:42. > :54:43.in 2015, compared to Labour and the Conservatives who held
:54:44. > :54:48.on to nine out of ten of their voters from the last election.
:54:49. > :54:55.And we've been joined by Gideon Skinner from Ipsos MORI.
:54:56. > :55:00.You still predicted a win for the Conservatives. Did you get your
:55:01. > :55:05.calculations wrong on the number of young people who turned out to vote?
:55:06. > :55:10.We think that was one of the things that made this underestimate Labour,
:55:11. > :55:13.we got most of the other parties pretty much correct but we
:55:14. > :55:17.underestimated Labour is one of the things we think we may have made a
:55:18. > :55:20.mistake is that we adjusted for turnout, in previous elections we
:55:21. > :55:24.had always seen young people were much less likely to turn out, but
:55:25. > :55:33.latest data suggests they did and that was an increase. It was not
:55:34. > :55:37.just the 18 to 24, it was the under 35s? Yes, the eye-catching rise is
:55:38. > :55:41.among 18 to 24, Labour always does better among the very youngest.
:55:42. > :55:48.There was a swing to Labour among the 25 to 34 age group and the 34 to
:55:49. > :55:53.44. I mentioned the class divide, did that stick out? Certainly. We
:55:54. > :55:58.have produced these estimates since 1979 and have never seen Labour get
:55:59. > :56:00.as high a score among middle classes as in 2017, never seen the
:56:01. > :56:16.Conservatives get as high score amongst the working classes as we
:56:17. > :56:18.have seen these estimates. Both parties increased their bowled
:56:19. > :56:21.share, it was not just one side or the other, but they did well among
:56:22. > :56:23.the class they are perhaps traditionally not associated with.
:56:24. > :56:26.It was interpreted by some as a protest election and revenge of the
:56:27. > :56:32.Remainers, did you see it like that? There is a difference by Remain and
:56:33. > :56:37.Leave vote, Remain war more likely to vote Labour and Leave
:56:38. > :56:43.Conservative. And graduates more -- were more likely to vote Labour and
:56:44. > :56:45.people without qualification is more likely to vote Conservative.
:56:46. > :56:50.Although Brexit was one of the most important issues it was not the only
:56:51. > :56:54.one, we saw concerns about NHS rise to one of the highest we have seen,
:56:55. > :56:58.concern about education being the third most important, it was not
:56:59. > :57:03.just Brexit. What about a shift in voter
:57:04. > :57:07.alignment? There was a move, middle-class voters going to Labour,
:57:08. > :57:12.working-class in some parts of the country to the Conservatives. Has
:57:13. > :57:17.that been a permanent shift, do you think? Has there been a realignment
:57:18. > :57:21.in support? There has been a long-term pattern of class being
:57:22. > :57:24.less of a predictable and in the 70s or 80s, that has changed over the
:57:25. > :57:28.years. Tony Blair did very well among the middle classes. It is not
:57:29. > :57:33.new but it seems to accelerate and when you say middle class and
:57:34. > :57:36.working class they are -- there are very different groups, the
:57:37. > :57:41.metropolitan elites and the older Conservative groups. Doesn't that
:57:42. > :57:45.make it more difficult to predict? You can't say middle class and
:57:46. > :57:49.working class, it is rural, metropolitan and all sorts of other
:57:50. > :57:52.factors? One of the big problems unions have had in the private
:57:53. > :57:58.sector is that lots of the battles have been won and the idea of the
:57:59. > :58:01.TUC, Labour, it is not what it was because you get so much more
:58:02. > :58:06.aspirational behaviour. I have welcomed and relished the day that I
:58:07. > :58:11.can look at you, I was asked so many times in various things that I do,
:58:12. > :58:16.call it. I said I do not go with a landslide but I will go with 58. And
:58:17. > :58:22.that is because people like you said it would be a 20 or 22% lead. If you
:58:23. > :58:27.said it was 5% or 6% I would not have done that. Why did you get it
:58:28. > :58:30.so badly wrong? I am afraid we will have to leave it, saved by the Bell.
:58:31. > :58:33.There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.
:58:34. > :58:35.The question was what present did Michel Barnier -
:58:36. > :58:37.the EU's Chief Brexit negotiator - give to David Davis
:58:38. > :58:39.at the start of the Brexit negotiations yesterday?
:58:40. > :58:42.A, a ride in an EU-themed hot air balloon?
:58:43. > :58:46.C, a vinyl copy of the EU anthem, Ode to Joy?
:58:47. > :58:53.It is B or deed, I will go with the wooden hiking stick. You would be
:58:54. > :58:55.right, well done. Maybe he was trying to say take a hide in the
:58:56. > :58:56.most polite way! Thanks to all our guests,
:58:57. > :58:59.especially Digby Jones. The one o'clock news is starting
:59:00. > :59:02.over on BBC One now. We won't be here tomorrow as it's
:59:03. > :59:05.the State Opening of Parliament - you can watch all the coverage live
:59:06. > :59:21.on BBC One from 10:30am. MUSIC: Power
:59:22. > :59:24.by Kanye West