:00:37. > :00:41.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:42. > :00:44.She's been Prime Minister for a year, and what a year it's been.
:00:45. > :00:48.So what does the next 12 months have in store for Theresa May?
:00:49. > :00:52.And can the Government do all the things it wants to do?
:00:53. > :00:54.Train drivers on Southern Rail vote for fresh strikes
:00:55. > :00:59.Meanwhile, the Transport Secretary accuses Labour of colluding
:01:00. > :01:06.with the unions to bring misery to passengers.
:01:07. > :01:08.Jeremy Corbyn is as likely to be seen addressing big
:01:09. > :01:11.rallies, as he is wondering through the corridors of power.
:01:12. > :01:15.But do street protests really bring about political change?
:01:16. > :01:18.And, as the French President welcomes his American
:01:19. > :01:22.counterpart on Bastille Day, we speak to a leading French
:01:23. > :01:24.politician about the rise of Emmanuel Macron, Brexit
:01:25. > :01:32.and the future of Anglo-French relations.
:01:33. > :01:36.All that in the next hour and with us for the duration
:01:37. > :01:39.a double act to rival May and Corbyn, Barnier and Davis,
:01:40. > :01:46.That's Fraser Nelson, editor of The Spectator,
:01:47. > :01:48.and Anoosh Chakelian, from The New Statesman -
:01:49. > :01:55.So, it's the end of the week in which Theresa May celebrated,
:01:56. > :01:57.if that's the right word, her first twelve months
:01:58. > :02:10.It hasn't exactly gone to plan, understatement of the year. Nothing
:02:11. > :02:14.has gone to plan for her for the last four or five months. But she's
:02:15. > :02:20.still here which is more than people thought on election night. We all
:02:21. > :02:24.know that she is going to resign, unlike Gordon Brown who we thought
:02:25. > :02:28.would hang on, everyone knows she will walk the plank at some point
:02:29. > :02:36.but nobody knows who will succeed her. Until the party makes up its
:02:37. > :02:41.mind, she will stay. She is like an undead Prime Minister, it's very
:02:42. > :02:46.strange. When do you think the walking the plank will be? If we
:02:47. > :02:49.take that view. She's given herself a few years. I think she might be
:02:50. > :02:56.right. We don't know the exact deadline. Her weakness is keeping
:02:57. > :03:03.her in place. No Conservative MP wants to destabilise things when
:03:04. > :03:11.Jeremy Corbyn is at a high, partly because of Theresa May's weakness.
:03:12. > :03:16.Would it be better to admin that it was a mistake to call an election? I
:03:17. > :03:20.don't think anybody thinks it was the right decision. She might have
:03:21. > :03:24.meant that if things went a planet might have been a good decision but
:03:25. > :03:29.it was obviously the biggest self-inflicted wound in the history
:03:30. > :03:37.of the Conservative Party. She has probably inflicted more damage on
:03:38. > :03:44.party then anybody since Tony Blair. What have we learnt about politics
:03:45. > :03:49.in the last few months? That you shouldn't take anything for granted.
:03:50. > :03:53.As soon as you start attacking someone, personal attacks like in
:03:54. > :04:00.the campaign, the public can react differently and it might backfire.
:04:01. > :04:06.Should there have been more of a mea culpa? She said that she shared a
:04:07. > :04:10.tear, which for her is a big deal and then she claimed that she
:04:11. > :04:15.immediately thought of the message that the electorate had sent. There
:04:16. > :04:19.was no sense of that. It was a staged mea culpa. A lesser Prime
:04:20. > :04:26.Minister would have quit and walk away as David Cameron did after the
:04:27. > :04:31.Brexit foe. She is sticking with it because she feels a sense of duty to
:04:32. > :04:34.the party and she deserves credit for that. Sense of duty is
:04:35. > :04:40.important. She is the great survivor. Of course, her decision to
:04:41. > :04:46.stand for the leadership in the first place was quite brave. Nobody
:04:47. > :04:51.wanted to inherit a Brexit negotiations. But she had felt for a
:04:52. > :04:55.while that she could become leader. Brexit negotiations, if we go back
:04:56. > :05:02.to Lancaster house and that speech, is it going to continue to be a
:05:03. > :05:07.template? I think so. The Lancaster house speech was a very persuasive
:05:08. > :05:12.template. Only 12 weeks ago, we were looking at the local election
:05:13. > :05:16.results and everything she did seem to have been vindicated. We have
:05:17. > :05:22.learned how quickly politics can shift and certainties vanish. What
:05:23. > :05:27.does it say about support? That it is very soft and flaky on both
:05:28. > :05:32.sides? And things can change. It's almost as though the Conservatives
:05:33. > :05:36.prospects have flipped over and reflect what Labour was suffering
:05:37. > :05:45.before the election. It could flick over again. Is she human now? She is
:05:46. > :05:50.never going to be a great raconteur with her emotions on her sleeve. The
:05:51. > :05:55.public see her for what she is, someone who works very hard with a
:05:56. > :06:00.huge sense of duty but finds it hard to say, come and be my friend. Other
:06:01. > :06:02.politicians do that. It doesn't matter because she won't be standing
:06:03. > :06:05.for election again. So, Theresa May's second year
:06:06. > :06:08.in Downing Street is now underway. If you believe Jeremy Corbyn -
:06:09. > :06:11.then the government is clapped out and he'll have her job
:06:12. > :06:12.before Christmas. But allies of the Prime Minister
:06:13. > :06:16.say that she can carry on for years. So, if you'll excuse the
:06:17. > :06:18.naval metaphor, let's take a look at what's in the offing
:06:19. > :06:20.for Theresa May's government A top priority is of course
:06:21. > :06:26.to sail the ship of state Face-to-face talks between
:06:27. > :06:32.the Brexit Secretary David Davis and the EU's Chief Negotiator
:06:33. > :06:36.will resume this Monday. Yesterday, the government
:06:37. > :06:41.introduced the Repeal Bill, this will overturn the 1972
:06:42. > :06:45.legislation that took the UK into the Common Market and also
:06:46. > :06:50.convert EU law into UK law. The opposition parties are keen
:06:51. > :06:53.to amend and oppose the bill - the Liberal Democrat leader
:06:54. > :06:56.Tim Farron even said that the passage of the bill
:06:57. > :06:59.will be "hell" for the government. And there are seven other bills
:07:00. > :07:02.related to Brexit on the horizon - in particular, the Customs Bill,
:07:03. > :07:04.the Immigration Bill In the autumn, the Chancellor Philip
:07:05. > :07:11.Hammond will present his He'll be under pressure to yield
:07:12. > :07:17.to calls for him to end the 1% cap But the government's
:07:18. > :07:22.economic strategy got a boost from the independent Office
:07:23. > :07:26.for Budget Responsibility yesterday. The fiscal watchdog suggested
:07:27. > :07:29.that ending austerity and increasing spending could pose a "significant
:07:30. > :07:34.risk" to the public finances. And in the Queen's Speech we got
:07:35. > :07:46.a sense of the other priorities of the government -
:07:47. > :07:48.including a consultation on social care, an industrial strategy
:07:49. > :07:50.to boost growth and a review Joining me now is Conservative MP,
:07:51. > :07:54.Kwasi Kwarteng, who is Parliamentary Private Secretary
:07:55. > :08:02.to the Chancellor Philip Hammond. And from Middlesbrough we are joined
:08:03. > :08:09.by Shadow Transport Secretary Andy McDonald. Hell for the government?
:08:10. > :08:16.Parliamentary guerrilla warfare. What are you going to do about it?
:08:17. > :08:21.Tim Farron has his own agenda and he was the leader of a campaign that
:08:22. > :08:25.didn't do very well. Both the Conservative Party and the Labour
:08:26. > :08:30.Party are committed to Brexit. I think we can get a decent majority
:08:31. > :08:34.for repealing the European Community zag across the house. It'll be
:08:35. > :08:38.difficult but I think we can do that. I think Tim Farron is not
:08:39. > :08:43.reflecting the mood of the House of Commons. He has 12 MPs, he resigned
:08:44. > :08:47.because he did so badly and I don't think he's in a position to talk
:08:48. > :08:55.about guerrilla warfare. I think we will be able to get things through.
:08:56. > :09:01.The fact that he is promising it, against a backdrop of the Article 50
:09:02. > :09:06.legislation, knowing that there are a group of Conservative MPs looking
:09:07. > :09:12.to oppose a bill like a rip your bill at least with amendments to it.
:09:13. > :09:18.That might make life very difficult and water down the bill. Do you
:09:19. > :09:22.accept that? We had about nine votes over the Article 50 legislation.
:09:23. > :09:26.I've never seen anything like it. If you look at the division nose and
:09:27. > :09:31.saw the Conservative rebels, there were very few of them. The
:09:32. > :09:35.majorities we secured were much more safe than people anticipated. I
:09:36. > :09:39.agree that the situation now is more difficult but I'd be such prize to
:09:40. > :09:45.see the number of rebels that I've read about. I don't think it would
:09:46. > :09:57.be as many as 15. The party is quite united and determined to see us
:09:58. > :09:59.through this process. But not without amendments, changes,
:10:00. > :10:02.frustration in the Bills. You only have to look at the opposition.
:10:03. > :10:07.Labour have promised to amend it. We've got the Liberal Democrats and
:10:08. > :10:11.the SNP saying similar things. 15 MPs is not a massive number. The
:10:12. > :10:16.odds are stacked against you. I don't think it is as high as 15 and
:10:17. > :10:21.I've given the reasons why. You assume that the opposition is united
:10:22. > :10:26.but we know that there are Labour MPs who voted for Brexit and people
:10:27. > :10:30.like Caroline Flint who don't want freedom of movement and are
:10:31. > :10:35.representing constituencies where the majority voted to leave. I don't
:10:36. > :10:39.think it's as simple as you suggest. Let's ask Andy McDonald on the
:10:40. > :10:43.Labour side, welcome to the programme, talking on the repeal
:10:44. > :10:47.bill specifically, you are asking for a whole range of concessions.
:10:48. > :10:51.The government probably won't give you everything that you want. In all
:10:52. > :10:57.likelihood, are you just going to vote against the repeal Bill? I
:10:58. > :11:02.think we'll be voting for our amendments but I think the principle
:11:03. > :11:08.of the repeal bill is accepted but it's up on what terms and what comes
:11:09. > :11:12.afterwards. We've set out very clearly, embracing David Davis's own
:11:13. > :11:19.words of the exact same benefits and making sure that we are still
:11:20. > :11:22.parties to important European organisations that have served as
:11:23. > :11:26.well and it's absolutely imperative that we do not throw the baby out
:11:27. > :11:34.with the bath water and we don't throw away 40 years of benefits. Are
:11:35. > :11:37.those red lines? For Labour. If you listen to Keir Starmer, who is
:11:38. > :11:40.shadowing on the Brexit side for Labour, they want to see the
:11:41. > :11:46.incorporation of the European Charter of fundamental rights, that
:11:47. > :11:51.means that you can't vote for the repeal bill as it stands. We will
:11:52. > :11:58.see. I think we've got to have pragmatic and sensible approach to
:11:59. > :12:01.this. What does that mean? Theresa May obviously recognises the
:12:02. > :12:06.weakness of her own position and is trying to reach out to other parties
:12:07. > :12:09.to help her out. That, for me, signals that there is some sense
:12:10. > :12:16.that there is going to be some element of compromise. On what,
:12:17. > :12:22.though? That's too early for me to say. The bill was published
:12:23. > :12:25.yesterday. But we've heard Keir Starmer on the European Charter of
:12:26. > :12:34.fundamental rights. Is that a red line for Keir Starmer and Labour? He
:12:35. > :12:41.will make that clear. I'm not going to step into his shoes and say that
:12:42. > :12:46.or not. We need pragmatic views on what can be achieved so we don't
:12:47. > :12:51.leave the European Union and the impact of it making our people much
:12:52. > :12:53.worse off. We've got to give people the chance to make some progress on
:12:54. > :12:59.these hugely important areas for hours. To start shouting the odds at
:13:00. > :13:04.this stage, I'm afraid, that's where the Tories got into difficulties in
:13:05. > :13:07.the first place by having such an intransigence of view with their
:13:08. > :13:14.European partners, rather than saying let's negotiate. Let's put
:13:15. > :13:18.that to Kwasi. We don't know exactly the areas that they are going to try
:13:19. > :13:22.and change and amend but they are obviously going to try and do it. If
:13:23. > :13:27.we look at the European Charter of fundamental rights, would you have
:13:28. > :13:33.way on that? That's way above my pay grade. Let's look at the actual bill
:13:34. > :13:39.and see what the amendments are. The fact is, to say that the opposition
:13:40. > :13:43.is completely united is false. We saw Chuka Umunna put down an
:13:44. > :13:50.amendment and 49 Labour MPs voted in favour of that. A large portion of
:13:51. > :13:54.the party didn't. Before you move on, I want a savoury clearly that
:13:55. > :13:58.you've got a very simplified picture of the parliamentary arithmetic and
:13:59. > :14:01.there are splits on the Labour side and I think the Conservative Party
:14:02. > :14:05.is more united than you have assumed and I think we'll be able to get
:14:06. > :14:13.something out of it. Let's talk about the Labour dilemma. It is true
:14:14. > :14:17.that Caroline Flint is very keen to emphasise to you and other Labour
:14:18. > :14:22.colleagues that the party must stick with what it promised which is
:14:23. > :14:26.leaving the single market because you promised to end freedom of
:14:27. > :14:31.movement and leave PE you in the way that her constituents would like to
:14:32. > :14:41.see. That is at complete odds with the constituents of Keir Starmer or
:14:42. > :14:49.Jeremy Kyle Britain or -- or Jeremy Kyle been all Emily Thornberry. How
:14:50. > :14:54.can you satisfy both? The vote was very close. The discussion has two B
:14:55. > :15:00.about securing the benefits of the single market is as David Davies
:15:01. > :15:05.pointed out. If it comes to freedom of movement, we accept that goes if
:15:06. > :15:08.you leave the single market. What comes in its place? It is the
:15:09. > :15:13.ability to look at migration and have a policy that serves the
:15:14. > :15:18.economy in our interests. We can do that very sensibly. It doesn't mean
:15:19. > :15:21.pulling up the drawbridge. It means having an active immigration policy
:15:22. > :15:26.where people are welcomed into our country to help as in the areas
:15:27. > :15:33.where we need their skills and abilities. A very sensible attitude.
:15:34. > :15:40.I will bring in Andy McDonald. How difficult is this going to be for
:15:41. > :15:46.both parties to pull off? The problems are similar, all of them
:15:47. > :15:50.have MPs who represent constituents who would rather stay in for
:15:51. > :15:56.financial or cultural reasons and they have constituents who voted to
:15:57. > :16:02.leave. Kwasi talk about Labour being divided. It is divide on Brexit,
:16:03. > :16:06.but, what it is united in, is make things as difficult as possible for
:16:07. > :16:11.a very weak Government and the Tories shown underest mate that. Is
:16:12. > :16:16.the Repeal Bill going to be the place where that opposition is going
:16:17. > :16:19.to come to the fore, the fight against the Conservatives and in
:16:20. > :16:23.some people's minds the fight against Brexit. It is an opportunity
:16:24. > :16:27.for Labour to try to make common cause of Tory rebel, it doesn't
:16:28. > :16:31.matter if it is about the EU or parking fine, anything, you would
:16:32. > :16:36.take a chance to inflict a defeat, or think of something nobody thought
:16:37. > :16:40.of before, the provision of abortion for women in Northern Ireland, you
:16:41. > :16:45.take something like that and try and get a concession, the repeal bill is
:16:46. > :16:51.misnamed. It is not the great any more. It is taking regulation and
:16:52. > :16:54.making it into British law. It's the great regulation bill if you like.
:16:55. > :16:58.Because there is so much it creates opportunities to embarrass is
:16:59. > :17:02.Government. Before we move on, what is more important do you and your
:17:03. > :17:04.Labour colleague, getting rid of this Conservative Government, or
:17:05. > :17:11.seeing through the Brexit negotiations? Well, both. They are
:17:12. > :17:15.both important. But... You might use the Brexit negotiation to get rid of
:17:16. > :17:19.this Government? Well, I mean, Theresa May thought she was going to
:17:20. > :17:23.have this massive mandate for her to do as she wish, and that is not
:17:24. > :17:26.going to happen. She knows that, that is why she is in difficulty.
:17:27. > :17:29.Not bringing anything to the floor of the House of Commons because she
:17:30. > :17:34.knows she have the Dell's own job to progress anything. We will be acting
:17:35. > :17:37.in the best interests of country and making sure we get the best possible
:17:38. > :17:41.bill we can and it addresses the needs of our people. For goodness'
:17:42. > :17:46.sake, what else should we do? Let us move on to the economy, Philip
:17:47. > :17:50.Hammond will give his autumn budget, if you are going to listen to some
:17:51. > :17:55.of the voices inside the Cabinet, and other Tory backbenchers, who are
:17:56. > :18:00.asking for the 1% public sector pay cap to be lifted, is that something
:18:01. > :18:02.you can support. Certainly we won't rewrite the budget half way through
:18:03. > :18:09.the year, there will be a budgetary event as you suggested. We have had
:18:10. > :18:13.discussion about pay cap. I don't have any idea what will be in the
:18:14. > :18:17.budget. It was important the Government held the line. Deficit
:18:18. > :18:21.reduction is important, people understand that, we have done a
:18:22. > :18:25.long, very well in that, over the last seven year, it has gone from 50
:18:26. > :18:28.billion to 50 billion. That is important, and the idea that if a
:18:29. > :18:34.Labour Government came in, we would see further progress on this, is not
:18:35. > :18:39.correct. It is fanciful. The IFS have said that Labour's plans would
:18:40. > :18:42.cost ?100 billion more, would add to the deficit. ?100 billion oh the
:18:43. > :18:49.course of a five year Parliament. That is a lot of money, a lot of
:18:50. > :18:52.debt. The Office for Budget Responsibility suggested that
:18:53. > :18:57.fatigue and increased spending could post a significant risk to the
:18:58. > :19:03.public finance, does that not mow blow a hole your economic argument?
:19:04. > :19:07.At least we set out with some, in some detail what our spending plans
:19:08. > :19:11.w and where the money would come from, we heard nothing from the Tory
:19:12. > :19:16.party, and look, they missed their target, they have done since 2010
:19:17. > :19:21.and they keep putting them back. I am asking about your economic
:19:22. > :19:26.argument, because if the Office for Budget Responsibility is saying that
:19:27. > :19:29.spending to, if you like, mitigate the effects of austerity and
:19:30. > :19:33.increasing spending are going to pose a significant risk particularly
:19:34. > :19:36.with some the uncertainties round Brexit, is that a responsible
:19:37. > :19:42.economic argument for Labour to be putting forward? Well is it really
:19:43. > :19:46.responsible to have a plan where by our nurses are going, working flat
:19:47. > :19:53.out, an not having sufficient money to get through the week, where
:19:54. > :19:56.families are ?1400 a year worse off, as a result of austerity, while
:19:57. > :20:01.giving the tax breaks to the very very richest in our society. There
:20:02. > :20:05.is something morally bankrupt about that and there has to be a better
:20:06. > :20:11.distribution of the wealth of nation. Let me put that to Kwasi.
:20:12. > :20:15.Morally bankrupt he say, isn't the proof in the pudding the result of
:20:16. > :20:19.the election, because you are not listening, to the public, when it
:20:20. > :20:24.comes to things like pay, and cost of living and look at rates of
:20:25. > :20:31.inflation, hitting 3%, squeeze on people's pay now, you know, it is a
:20:32. > :20:35.big cut, the average pay is about 1.8% pay rise, 3% inflation, people
:20:36. > :20:39.can't afford, things in the way they could. You need to change your
:20:40. > :20:43.policy S Three things to that. If you look at the economic management
:20:44. > :20:47.we have had since 2010. We have reduced the deficit by two thirds. I
:20:48. > :20:53.am talking about now. It is is a broader debate. If we don't have a
:20:54. > :20:56.decent economy, people will suffer far more, than if we have a well run
:20:57. > :21:00.economy, that is self evident. That is self evident. People are
:21:01. > :21:05.saying... If we look at the alternative, we have the record
:21:06. > :21:09.numbers of. Employment, the lowest unemployment rate 40 year, we have
:21:10. > :21:14.reduced the deficit by two-third and we have over the last seven years on
:21:15. > :21:18.the compounded annual basis we have grown faster than every other
:21:19. > :21:21.country in Europe. How do you... I am establishing with you, I
:21:22. > :21:26.understand that. This is a God record. We accept that there are
:21:27. > :21:32.difficulties in terms of rising living costs, but, what I would say
:21:33. > :21:38.is the alternative f you go down a Labour route you will increase the
:21:39. > :21:41.debt, you will increase you could increase inflation, and you could
:21:42. > :21:47.increase interest rates and that would be very damaging to people on
:21:48. > :21:51.lower incomes. Andy McDonald? That is ludicrous, more pain to inflict
:21:52. > :21:55.on the most vulnerable and worse off in society. I will challenge Kwasi
:21:56. > :21:59.to come to my constituency and come into some of the territories where
:22:00. > :22:03.people are really suffering on this Tory regime. They are having the
:22:04. > :22:08.toughest of times and yet we sit back and think this all in the
:22:09. > :22:12.garden is Rosie, it isn't. For many millions in the country and for him
:22:13. > :22:16.to suggest this is a success story, I would hate to see what failure
:22:17. > :22:19.would look like, this has been a miserable time for thousands and
:22:20. > :22:24.millions of people, right across this land and it is about time the
:22:25. > :22:27.Tories woke up to that. There is a huge outpouring and embracing of
:22:28. > :22:31.Labour's message to say we can order society in a totally different way
:22:32. > :22:35.and we cannot simply go on pandering to the richest in oat who can afford
:22:36. > :22:39.to pay a little more. A quick response, we were told you are not
:22:40. > :22:45.deaf as a government. Frazer will know the richest 1% are paying more
:22:46. > :22:48.as a proportion of tax. Is that making nurses feel better or
:22:49. > :22:52.teachers feel better about the cost of living? Something I have accepted
:22:53. > :22:55.the cost of living is an issue, we have address it with regards to the
:22:56. > :23:00.personal allowance, we more than doubled that. The wait you pay tax
:23:01. > :23:04.is higher now, than was ever the case in the past. Thank you both
:23:05. > :23:08.very much. Briefly, is this where the argument is going to be putting
:23:09. > :23:12.Brexit to one side slightly, looking at the economic tussle between the
:23:13. > :23:18.two parties? Yes it will be about fairness. The Tories have a strong
:23:19. > :23:22.story to tell. Look at whose incomes have gone up, whose have gone done.
:23:23. > :23:27.It is richest whose incomes have fallen the most. The Conservatives
:23:28. > :23:33.have been progressive. Those at the bottom have been protected. Is that
:23:34. > :23:38.how you see? It The argument for austerity has been dropped. She
:23:39. > :23:42.didn't make it a priority so it is difficult for them to bring it back
:23:43. > :23:43.to the top of the agenda again. Thank owe both P
:23:44. > :23:48.Yesterday Jeremy Corbyn met the EU's Brexit negotiator in Brussels
:23:49. > :23:51.and to get into his good books he gave him an Arsenal shirt.
:23:52. > :23:53.So our question for today is, what was written on the back?
:23:54. > :24:09.or d) Seumas, I'm not sure this is a great idea.
:24:10. > :24:11.At the end of the show Fraser and Anoosh
:24:12. > :24:21.With we are saying goodbye to Kwasi Kwarteng.
:24:22. > :24:23.Train drivers on Southern Rail have voted for fresh
:24:24. > :24:25.strikes over the summer, after rejecting a pay
:24:26. > :24:28.Govia Thameslink had offered staff a four-year pay deal worth nearly
:24:29. > :24:34.But the drivers' union Aslef has announced three days of strikes
:24:35. > :24:36.at the start of August, after its members voted
:24:37. > :24:41.Meanwhile, the Transport Secretary, Chris Grayling, has announced
:24:42. > :24:44.a ?13 million fine for the train company for the disruption
:24:45. > :24:49.And in the Commons yesterday, he also took aim at the Labour Party.
:24:50. > :24:52.Let's be clear about what's been done today, I have, for months,
:24:53. > :24:57.said the problems on this railway are not purely down to industrial
:24:58. > :25:01.But, I'm also very clear, Mr Speaker, and so is Chris Gibb's
:25:02. > :25:03.report, that the prime responsibility for the trouble
:25:04. > :25:06.on that network in the last few months has come from trade unions,
:25:07. > :25:09.fighting the battles of 30 years ago, and still they get support
:25:10. > :25:12.from the Labour Party, and the reality is it is
:25:13. > :25:14.the Labour Party and the unions colluding to bring trouble
:25:15. > :25:23.Well, Andy McDonald is still with us - he was opposite Chris Grayling
:25:24. > :25:26.And from Tunbridge Wells we're joined by Conservative MP
:25:27. > :25:28.Huw Merriman, who represents the Bexhill and Battle
:25:29. > :25:31.We did ask Aslef - the train drivers' union -
:25:32. > :25:40.if anyone was available for interview, but no one was.
:25:41. > :25:46.Delighted you are here. We heard Chris Grayling saying Labour was
:25:47. > :25:51.colluded with the union over this industrial action, do you support
:25:52. > :25:58.the industrial action? That is not true. And if Chris Grayling has any
:25:59. > :26:02.evidence of this terrible lie he is trying to perpetuate, let him come
:26:03. > :26:06.forward with it. He makes it up. It is not true there has been that sort
:26:07. > :26:11.of discussion with the trade unions at all. Do you support the
:26:12. > :26:16.industrial action though? Well, I support passengers in their bid to
:26:17. > :26:22.have a railway that is safe, and secure and accessible. You do
:26:23. > :26:26.support the industrial action It find it staggering that the Tories
:26:27. > :26:31.are prepared to compromise on safety when it is clear we need a second
:26:32. > :26:36.member of crew on that, every train, who is critically trained in safety.
:26:37. > :26:40.We have seen evidence of it, look at the Watford issue months ago, driver
:26:41. > :26:46.incapacitated, who led the passengers safely away from that
:26:47. > :26:50.train? It was the guard. And these people are talking about taking
:26:51. > :26:53.guards off trains and having them depart stations without that safety
:26:54. > :26:59.critical person onboard. It is plain. It is a dangerous game. I
:27:00. > :27:04.want and answer, do you support the industrial actionsome I do support
:27:05. > :27:08.the industrial action, because it is standing up for passengers, for
:27:09. > :27:11.safety, for accessibility, these are things that we all should be
:27:12. > :27:15.standing up for, instead of compromising on it and putting
:27:16. > :27:20.people at risk. I wish Tories would wake up and realise that is what the
:27:21. > :27:24.people want, and it isn't beyond the wit to Rossiter a train to make sure
:27:25. > :27:30.that it is properly staffed, in terms of not only driver, which they
:27:31. > :27:34.can't do because they didn't recruit enough or assess what was available,
:27:35. > :27:40.and making sure that second critical person is onboard. Right. It is is a
:27:41. > :27:45.simple matter. You don't care about passenger safety Hugh merry man? I
:27:46. > :27:49.do. I commute from East Sussex to Parliament, so of course I care
:27:50. > :27:53.about my safety and my constituent, this strike is about a rejection of
:27:54. > :27:58.a pay rise, this is not a strike based on the technology, that is the
:27:59. > :28:04.overtime ban, so for Andy McDonald to talk about whether it is morally
:28:05. > :28:11.wrong for people to be given big pay rises versus 1% for nurses and not
:28:12. > :28:16.condemn a strike with a 23% pay rise has been reject is hypocrisy. It
:28:17. > :28:22.isn't just about safety it is about pay rise, why should Aslef go on
:28:23. > :28:29.strike when they have rejected a 24% pay rise taking salaries from
:28:30. > :28:32.?39,000 to 60,000? Well, you have to get the detail of that, this
:28:33. > :28:38.franchise... That is a massive pay rise. Hang on, hang on, it
:28:39. > :28:41.predicated on the basis that people work their overtime, days off, do we
:28:42. > :28:45.sensibly want to have a railway system that is run where people are
:28:46. > :28:51.working six and seven days a week? This is crazy. As far, hang on, let
:28:52. > :28:57.us be clear about what was being offered, because as I understand it,
:28:58. > :29:01.the pay offer would have taken the base salary, from 39,000 to just
:29:02. > :29:07.over 60,000, for the existing 35 hour week, four days a week.
:29:08. > :29:12.Well, you are going to have to have Aslef come on and give you their
:29:13. > :29:17.details. It is not a seven day week, which is what you said? The basis if
:29:18. > :29:21.you are running a railway on overtime, how mad is that? You
:29:22. > :29:26.should have enough people properly employed to do the proper working
:29:27. > :29:31.week and not rely on people to turn up. Chris Gibbs said so, if you, the
:29:32. > :29:36.Gibb report says a so. Let us go back to Hugh, because there was
:29:37. > :29:40.overwhelming support for rejecting that pay rise, so if there was
:29:41. > :29:45.overwhelming support for it, the grievances must be big. We have to
:29:46. > :29:49.be clear, this rejection has been on pay, the overtime ban that is in
:29:50. > :29:53.place is about the technology, so this is purely about pay. And it
:29:54. > :29:59.can't be right when pay is only going up by 1.8% that a 24% pay rise
:30:00. > :30:03.can be rejected. I would urge the drivers to think about my
:30:04. > :30:08.constituents, commuters who are not earning like like this doing more
:30:09. > :30:11.than 35 hours a week and can't get to work and are losing their jobs
:30:12. > :30:16.for their commute, or not seeing their families. Families. It is
:30:17. > :30:20.fair. Andy McDonald needs to think about all worker, that may belong to
:30:21. > :30:24.a use one that subsidises the Labour Party.
:30:25. > :30:32.What about the company? Do they not take responsibility for the
:30:33. > :30:39.appalling service that they have put out on a daily basis? They have just
:30:40. > :30:44.been penalised by ?13 million, their share under the contract for
:30:45. > :30:48.cancellations. What's been made clear under the independent report
:30:49. > :30:52.is the primary cause of the appalling performance has actually
:30:53. > :30:57.been the unions. The ?13 million is a small proportion of the blame, the
:30:58. > :31:03.big proportion lies with the unions for going on strike where they can't
:31:04. > :31:07.justify it. The new technology has been deemed safe. Its on-board on
:31:08. > :31:14.13% of the network and has for decades. The unions reject that and
:31:15. > :31:18.have rejected it continuously. I hosted a debate not long ago where
:31:19. > :31:23.the whole safety argument was challenged. By the unions
:31:24. > :31:27.continually in the way that Andy Macdonald has stated. Until that is
:31:28. > :31:34.resolved, those actions are going to continue. I was one of the people
:31:35. > :31:38.there. At that stage, the unions were demanding that the independent
:31:39. > :31:43.rail safety regulator gave his opinion. I was keen for that as
:31:44. > :31:47.well. He did so and he said it has been used for decades and is safe
:31:48. > :31:51.across the country and safe on Southern rail. As soon as that came
:31:52. > :31:56.out, it was deemed to be a whitewash. There is always just
:31:57. > :32:01.another excuse as to why the strike is going on. There's no logic in
:32:02. > :32:05.this. It leads me to believe that that is collusion between the unions
:32:06. > :32:10.and labour. Andy Macdonald has rejected that. They are messing
:32:11. > :32:15.around with my constituents lives and it is incredibly shellfish. The
:32:16. > :32:20.report did find that union action was the primary cause for the
:32:21. > :32:28.network failure. The unions have called it a slap on the wrist. Do
:32:29. > :32:38.you accept that? Who paid him? Who paid Chris Gibb? GTR. He supposed to
:32:39. > :32:44.be independent. How are you independent if you are doing a
:32:45. > :32:46.report into an organisation that was paying you? You quoted from the
:32:47. > :32:52.reporter said it was a thing earlier. There are lots of good
:32:53. > :32:57.things in the report. Except for the things you don't agree with. I
:32:58. > :33:04.really do think. Let's have an honest think about this. The ?13.4
:33:05. > :33:07.million fine, isn't it remarkable that a good deal of that is recycled
:33:08. > :33:13.into doing what we've been asking all along. More people on trains.
:33:14. > :33:17.Why don't the government just wake up and make sure there is a guard on
:33:18. > :33:24.every train and get this strike over. People are talking about the
:33:25. > :33:28.page offer rejected, this is about safety and security and access
:33:29. > :33:33.ability. They want the best railway in the world and it is about time we
:33:34. > :33:39.had sensible conversations about it. It is also about pay. To be clear.
:33:40. > :33:45.Hugh Merriman, what made the government take so long to act on
:33:46. > :33:49.this? I've been through the contract with the transport select committee
:33:50. > :33:54.and it is quite a technical clause. Southern said it was down to the
:33:55. > :33:58.fault of industrial action. The government has demonstrated that
:33:59. > :34:02.some of the causes were Southern. I'm critical of both sides. My
:34:03. > :34:06.problem with the Labour Party position is that it is completely
:34:07. > :34:10.one-sided. They are showing they are not a government in waiting because
:34:11. > :34:14.they are sticking up for well-paid individuals rather than passengers
:34:15. > :34:16.who rely on the trains to get to work and to see their families.
:34:17. > :34:19.Thank you very much. The Shadow Chancellor,
:34:20. > :34:22.John McDonnell, recently said a million people take to the streets
:34:23. > :34:27.to change the Government, and endorsed a so-called
:34:28. > :34:29."Day of Rage" in London. Well, as you might have noticed,
:34:30. > :34:32.the Government is still in place. So do protests and placard-waving
:34:33. > :34:34.really change anything? We'll discuss that in a moment,
:34:35. > :34:37.but first, let's have a look at a few of the more memorable
:34:38. > :34:40.demonstrations from recent years. # Welcome to the future
:34:41. > :34:53.of your world...# Police in capitals across Europe
:34:54. > :34:57.have taken no chances, turning out in force to keep
:34:58. > :34:59.a tight rein on demonstrations against alleged corporate greed
:35:00. > :35:04.and government cuts. A protest today in the city,
:35:05. > :35:07.marketed as a day of rage at the Government,
:35:08. > :35:10.slightly underwhelmed. # My friends, my dear,
:35:11. > :35:21.my love, my God... Angela Merkel chose liberal
:35:22. > :35:24.Hamburg, the gateway It's a decision
:35:25. > :35:33.she may be regretting. # There'll be trouble
:35:34. > :35:35.when the kidz come out.# We're joined now by Matthew Bolton
:35:36. > :35:38.from Citizens UK - that's a group that helps community
:35:39. > :35:40.groups organise to bring He's published a new book
:35:41. > :35:46.called How to Resist. And Jamie Kelsey-Fry
:35:47. > :35:48.is a contributing editor at New Internationalist magazine,
:35:49. > :35:50.and a supporter of various protests including
:35:51. > :36:02.the anti-capitalist Occupy Matthew, you described the recent
:36:03. > :36:08.day of rage in tended to shut down London as indulgent and useless.
:36:09. > :36:15.Why? For two reasons. Firstly, it gives protest a bad name. Firstly
:36:16. > :36:18.because it is ineffective, there is no power analysis, 300 activists are
:36:19. > :36:24.not going to bring down the government. By its own stated aims,
:36:25. > :36:29.it's an effective. It's also opportunistic. We are working around
:36:30. > :36:38.North Kensington, residents associations, at that time, talking
:36:39. > :36:42.about the fire at Grenfell Tower, what the people wanted was to know
:36:43. > :36:47.who died and who survived and have safe accommodation and to have their
:36:48. > :36:52.voices heard. They felt that cause had been hijacked by external
:36:53. > :36:56.activists. In that sense, you are not helping the campaign, some of
:36:57. > :37:00.them that you support because you don't achieve your stated aim to
:37:01. > :37:04.bring down the government. Many protests happened in the past that I
:37:05. > :37:10.fear have put people off the cause rather than getting them to support.
:37:11. > :37:25.But loads of protests have changed the course of history. Mass
:37:26. > :37:32.mobilisations. You can't cut, purely a outraged about tax avoidance. The
:37:33. > :37:36.occupier movement globally changed the dialogue about inequality.
:37:37. > :37:40.That's incredibly valuable. What do you think about changing the
:37:41. > :37:45.narrative, even if you can't point to specific policies and governments
:37:46. > :37:48.haven't been brought down but you change the political debate? I'm
:37:49. > :37:53.absolutely in favour of protest. There's lots of things people are
:37:54. > :37:57.angry about. I do agree that changing the narrative is important
:37:58. > :38:02.but hopefully we are making a tangible difference to people's
:38:03. > :38:06.lives. Think about the living wage campaign, the great benefit is
:38:07. > :38:13.something specific and tangible to address to each employer. Do you pay
:38:14. > :38:17.?9 75 in London? Can you create a political consensus around the need
:38:18. > :38:23.for higher wage? What are they as impactful and as big in terms of
:38:24. > :38:30.just doing them, seeing them? Just a volume of people? Does it have the
:38:31. > :38:35.power? I think you need both. Seeing the women's march in January when 21
:38:36. > :38:39.million people marched worldwide. A fantastic demonstration of
:38:40. > :38:43.solidarity, raising awareness, what do you do after the March? How do
:38:44. > :38:49.you turn that motivation into something tangible to get your
:38:50. > :38:55.employer to put best practice into practice. That is how people can
:38:56. > :38:58.make a difference. Isn't it to go for something achievable? If you
:38:59. > :39:01.say, let's get rid of the government, get rid of Donald Trump,
:39:02. > :39:08.those things don't happen because of a March. But getting votes for women
:39:09. > :39:14.did happen. Let's change the dialogue about 1% and the 99%. That
:39:15. > :39:21.did happen. If you're looking at a couple of people with placards,
:39:22. > :39:29.notoriously, that is ineffective. So what is the point? Because there are
:39:30. > :39:33.types of protests that do. In 2013, people went down to West Sussex and
:39:34. > :39:38.we managed to controversial eyes fracking over the period of five
:39:39. > :39:43.days whereas before people believed David Cameron when he said it is
:39:44. > :39:47.safe when it is not. Doesn't that underline the argument that it is
:39:48. > :39:52.better to go for I particular policy objective? They are both important.
:39:53. > :39:57.What we would like the viewers to come away from this segment with is,
:39:58. > :40:01.we've got to go out and do something. Globally, there is a
:40:02. > :40:08.historical total distrust in politics -- distrust. You can't just
:40:09. > :40:11.about every five years and that is you done, we want people to be
:40:12. > :40:15.political everyday. There are so many ways of doing that. We are
:40:16. > :40:21.looking at government after governments that just fail is. How
:40:22. > :40:25.did you feel about Jamie's move when he sat outside St Paul's Cathedral
:40:26. > :40:30.during the occupied protests? Was it worthwhile? The occupier movement
:40:31. > :40:37.was exactly the right motive and moment but I feel it was missing a
:40:38. > :40:41.certain method. Within the energy created there, it was front-page
:40:42. > :40:48.news for weeks but because the stated aims of the protest remained
:40:49. > :40:52.quite broad, an end to inequality, we do want that. But everybody is
:40:53. > :40:56.responsible for that and no one is responsible. How can we target that
:40:57. > :41:01.to a specific decision-makers and that is what the book offers a
:41:02. > :41:05.method for. But putting your money where your mouth is is important.
:41:06. > :41:11.Rather than just waiting for election. Isn't he and others who go
:41:12. > :41:20.out on big marches with big stated aims, like Occupy, bringing those to
:41:21. > :41:24.the attention of politicians? For many people. Occupy is mainly
:41:25. > :41:35.movement. Absolute rubbish. You weren't there. You may say that
:41:36. > :41:40.about it isn't true. The 1%, for example. You think that the share of
:41:41. > :41:46.income going up and up, in fact, income and equality is at a 30 year
:41:47. > :41:56.low. What is wrong with the middle-class protesting? There is
:41:57. > :42:00.nothing wrong but if you want a revolution, you want middle-class
:42:01. > :42:07.guys to go to hamburg, jetsetting around bringing down capitalism,
:42:08. > :42:14.that is not particularly practical. There are many more practical ways
:42:15. > :42:19.you can support things. You are out of touch with what was said, mate.
:42:20. > :42:26.Who were the majority of people involved? There is a play about Cap
:42:27. > :42:33.NICE occupier, about one homeless guy who woke up on the steps of
:42:34. > :42:36.Saint Pauls. In the play, he talks about the composite of the people
:42:37. > :42:43.living there. He said it was like being in prison. There was every
:42:44. > :42:48.class of this society there. That is what was extraordinary. We couldn't
:42:49. > :42:52.turn away people who are homeless or had alcohol issues, we had to
:42:53. > :42:57.embrace them. There is nothing wrong with middle-class activists but the
:42:58. > :43:04.question is, do we have someone who is directly affected by the issue at
:43:05. > :43:12.the heart of protest? That was the issue after Grenfell Tower. The
:43:13. > :43:18.living wage campaign was the voice of children of people earning less
:43:19. > :43:24.than the living wage. Look at Jeremy Corbyn's fans and momentum. Look at
:43:25. > :43:29.his rallies. They were accused of being middle class. Look how the
:43:30. > :43:36.visuals affected his popularity. In a way, it is irrelevant. The
:43:37. > :43:43.mainstream media underestimated it, we didn't. We were there all the
:43:44. > :43:49.time. He was speaking about the many and not the few. Where have you
:43:50. > :43:53.heard that before? The 99% and the 1%. If Jeremy Corbyn became Prime
:43:54. > :44:02.Minister and didn't enact some parts of his manifesto, for example
:44:03. > :44:11.getting rid of Jewish and fees. -- tuition fees. Would you go out and
:44:12. > :44:18.protest? Absolutely. The manifesto is important. But it is important to
:44:19. > :44:22.have local community to force politics to grow up in the 21st
:44:23. > :44:28.century and stop representing the one present. One of the risks here
:44:29. > :44:36.and the reason for writing the book is a million more 80-21 -year-olds
:44:37. > :44:41.floated in 2017 and they did in 2015. There's a real problem that
:44:42. > :44:44.cynicism and rage may be the product rather than channelling that
:44:45. > :44:46.interaction. It's about democracy not being something you just watch
:44:47. > :45:00.on television. Thank you very much. Now, it's Bastille Day and,
:45:01. > :45:02.as always in Paris, the President oversees Europe's oldest military
:45:03. > :45:08.parade along the Champs Elysee. Merriman.
:45:09. > :45:13.Donald Trump is in Paris for a two day visit. It is hard to believe it
:45:14. > :45:17.is just over a year since Emmanuel Macron launched his movement. He is
:45:18. > :45:18.President and his party has a majority on the French National
:45:19. > :45:24.Assembly. Let us take a look back. # Does it almost feel that
:45:25. > :46:02.nothing changed at all? # Does it almost feel that
:46:03. > :46:10.you've been here before # Now how am I going to be
:46:11. > :46:33.an optimist about this? I'm joined now by Alexandre Holroyd,
:46:34. > :46:36.he's a member of the French National Assembly
:46:37. > :46:41.for the Northern Europe region. Congratulations and welcome to the
:46:42. > :46:47.daily politics, it sin credible a party that didn't really exist a few
:46:48. > :46:50.years ago, is now in charge of France, with your President Emmanuel
:46:51. > :46:53.Macron, but that also meanses that expectations are going to be very
:46:54. > :47:00.high, how are you going to manage them? They are very high, and I
:47:01. > :47:04.think that the substance is the change, the fact we have done this
:47:05. > :47:07.incredible thing of building a party from scratch in a year, and of
:47:08. > :47:10.winning over the presidency and the National Assembly in a year speaks
:47:11. > :47:14.volume about how much the French want change, so we have a sense of
:47:15. > :47:18.responsibility. We know we don't have a choice and we are going to
:47:19. > :47:22.get to work. We got cracking the day after the election, I was in Paris
:47:23. > :47:27.by 9.00 the day after and we have passed our first law, which is the
:47:28. > :47:33.liberalisation of the labour market. Yes, you could argue, that there was
:47:34. > :47:36.a low turn out, relatively low in the Parliamentary election, that
:47:37. > :47:39.there is disenchantment. You say there is a big mandate for change,
:47:40. > :47:42.and for Emmanuel Macron that is true. How do you deal with that that
:47:43. > :47:47.exists because there was a low turn out in the Parliamentary election?
:47:48. > :47:50.So there was a low turn out in the Parliamentary election, although,
:47:51. > :47:57.for a lot of other countries including the UK that would be quite
:47:58. > :48:01.high, what is clear is that there's been a lack of explanation of what
:48:02. > :48:04.policy makers are doing in past years or decades and one of the
:48:05. > :48:10.first decisions that Emmanuel Macron took was to go in front of Congress,
:48:11. > :48:14.which both Houses of Parliament to explain what the vision, the
:48:15. > :48:22.direction of travel is, that is very important. Have do a better job.
:48:23. > :48:26.Press December sores have tried to reform France and the labour laws
:48:27. > :48:30.there and have failed. In part because of the strength of the
:48:31. > :48:33.union, and also Parliamentary opposition, in the past, how are you
:48:34. > :48:38.going to deal with that fight that will come? We will deal with that
:48:39. > :48:42.fight. There were two main big difference, the first is that we
:48:43. > :48:47.have been elected on a mandate that outlined what we were doing n detail
:48:48. > :48:51.of the procedure, we won both elections on that programme which
:48:52. > :48:58.never changed, from the moment we launched the movement to the moment
:48:59. > :49:04.we got in office. That is different to what we did before. So there is a
:49:05. > :49:09.difference of procedure, the second thing is we want to talk to the
:49:10. > :49:16.unions, there has never been... That is a novel thing. Politics talking
:49:17. > :49:21.to unions. It is in France. We have had over 60 meets between the Prime
:49:22. > :49:24.Minister and the union, we are negotiating every step with the
:49:25. > :49:28.union, sop of the unions who have been opposed to past reform, today
:49:29. > :49:32.are supporting the reforms or at least working with Government to go
:49:33. > :49:37.in the right direction. Let us talk about Trump, because you have beaten
:49:38. > :49:40.the UK to it, you have got the American President in town for those
:49:41. > :49:43.Bastille Day celebration, is Emmanuel Macron embracing Donald
:49:44. > :49:51.Trump? Natural is not the way I would put it. 100 years ago, if I
:49:52. > :49:55.remember it was the 6th April 1917, the Americans entered the First
:49:56. > :49:59.World War and they sent troops which died in battlefield in northern
:50:00. > :50:04.France. This was 100 years ago and this 14th July, like every 14th July
:50:05. > :50:07.we have foreign troops which march alongside French troops. This year
:50:08. > :50:13.it is the American troops in memory of this alliance that was again,
:50:14. > :50:18.sort of rekindled in the Second World War, it was only natural we
:50:19. > :50:24.would receive the head of state. We have lots of common naturalties with
:50:25. > :50:29.the US, working on terrorism, global security, Emmanuel Macron has been
:50:30. > :50:32.clear on the difference, for instance on the Paris accord and
:50:33. > :50:37.with this discourse of between long-standing allies and allies that
:50:38. > :50:41.will remain far after Emmanuel Macron subpoena President and far
:50:42. > :50:44.after Donald Trump, we have to keep in mind what we have in common
:50:45. > :50:48.rather than what separates us. We will come on to Brexit in a moment,
:50:49. > :50:54.what do you think of Emmanuel Macron, and his chances of success?
:50:55. > :50:57.I think he is coming across as Trumpesque, his mask is slipping as
:50:58. > :51:01.this liberal darling, at least in the UK, because we have seen him
:51:02. > :51:05.making France speeches from Versailles, not talking to the
:51:06. > :51:09.press, saying his thoughts are too complex. Comparing himself to
:51:10. > :51:16.Jupiter. That will make people's opinions of him change. People in
:51:17. > :51:20.this country who love centrists, a bit confused by some of the
:51:21. > :51:25.symbolism he is giving off. Do you think he is coming off as a bit
:51:26. > :51:29.grand. He has new politicians of course, who have never been in
:51:30. > :51:33.elected office. It looks and feel different. Does he look and feel
:51:34. > :51:39.that different when you see him in Versailles. I think he does. The
:51:40. > :51:43.French need this drama, they need this direction, in a country which
:51:44. > :51:48.is, really doesn't know where to go, you have somebody who created a
:51:49. > :51:51.party out of his own momentum. It is an incredible thing to watch, the
:51:52. > :51:57.creation from nothing, of a party not just won the presidency but went
:51:58. > :52:00.on to take the Parliament as well. And I think, right now, where
:52:01. > :52:04.leadership is nowhere, and in Britain we are lacking leadership
:52:05. > :52:09.too, France has managed to produce someone who has won the confidence
:52:10. > :52:13.of the country. I would allow him to be big headed. He is sat next to
:52:14. > :52:20.Trump, thumbs up, and he fetes away with it. He made his comment about
:52:21. > :52:28.the Paris Agreement, he said Macron, I want to make the planet great
:52:29. > :52:32.again, mocking a parody of Donald Trump saying he wants to make
:52:33. > :52:34.America great again. He made that video addressing the American people
:52:35. > :52:39.about the terrible President, but look at him now, he is Trump's new
:52:40. > :52:43.best friend. What about Brexit, what does Emmanuel Macron... He doesn't
:52:44. > :52:47.compare himself to Jupiter, that is the press who cap pairs him to be
:52:48. > :52:52.Jupiter. Thank you for that point of orrer. Would he object to that
:52:53. > :52:55.comparison. What he did in front of Parliament is what has been lacking
:52:56. > :53:01.in France, which is give a direction and sense of where the vision is
:53:02. > :53:04.going. It's form of the constitution, it is addressing both
:53:05. > :53:06.Houses of Parliament to show where we are going, that is what the
:53:07. > :53:10.French want to here, a description of what is going ho happen and the
:53:11. > :53:14.reasons why we are doing the reforms which is sometimes quite hard. Is he
:53:15. > :53:22.a fan of Brexit? I don't think he is a fan or a non-fan of Brexit. He is
:53:23. > :53:25.a pro European, we campaign on a very pro European platform. We
:53:26. > :53:31.support the Commission's effort to have a common European position an
:53:32. > :53:33.we will stick by it, which is to support the European Commission in
:53:34. > :53:38.its effort to negotiate with the UK. It is is a question I am often
:53:39. > :53:45.asked, what I often answer is Brexit is not as much of an issue in France
:53:46. > :53:49.as it is here. Accept he wants to push for closer cooperation between
:53:50. > :53:54.the Euro-zone, he is talking about Democratic Convention, what are
:53:55. > :53:57.they? So this is the way we developed the national programme,
:53:58. > :54:01.which is the association of citizens talking, because we think what
:54:02. > :54:05.Europe needs now is to bring back citizens into the vision of what
:54:06. > :54:09.Europe should come. We would have to understand what they expect from
:54:10. > :54:13.Europe, what they desire Europe to be, which is what we have lost track
:54:14. > :54:18.of, and associated that with professionals, to come up with a
:54:19. > :54:23.sort of more constitutional vision of what it is rather than sort of,
:54:24. > :54:25.sort of grass root vision. We have to let you go. Happy Bastille Day.
:54:26. > :54:29.Time now to find out the answer to our quiz.
:54:30. > :54:31.The question was, what was written on the back of the Arsenal
:54:32. > :54:33.shirt Jeremy Corbyn gave Michel Barnier yesterday?
:54:34. > :54:41.or d) Seumas, I'm not sure this is a great idea.
:54:42. > :54:54.It has to be Seamus. That is the funniest line. It the funniest but
:54:55. > :54:59.not the right answer. Barnier? I am afraid it was just plain old
:55:00. > :55:06.Barnier. Do you think he was pleased to receive the shirt? He gave Jeremy
:55:07. > :55:12.Corbyn a poster. Who did better? That was a lovely shirt.
:55:13. > :55:16.So our relationship with Brussels once more dominated the news agenda,
:55:17. > :55:20.let's take a look at the week in 60 seconds.
:55:21. > :55:27.Theresa May marked her one year in office by welcoming the Spanish king
:55:28. > :55:33.and Queen, and she finally admitted that the election had cause her some
:55:34. > :55:38.grief. Yes, a little tear. Meanwhile Jeremy Corbyn hot-footed it to
:55:39. > :55:45.Brussels, where he gave an Arsenal shirt to the EU Brexit negotiator
:55:46. > :55:48.Michel Barnier. Emily Thornberry and Damian Green deputised at Prime
:55:49. > :55:53.Minister's Questions. The first secretary didn't get the Prime
:55:54. > :55:59.Minister's memo, you are supposed to be building consensus, men, and if
:56:00. > :56:01.we... The Brexit secretary, David Davis, unveiled the Government's
:56:02. > :56:05.Repeal Bill and called on other parties to support it, but Labour,
:56:06. > :56:09.the SNP and the Liberal Democrats have threatened to veto it. More
:56:10. > :56:13.bridge building required. Speaking of which Foreign Secretary
:56:14. > :56:18.Boris Johnson had a message for the EU over divorce payments And I think
:56:19. > :56:29.go whistle is an entirely appropriate expression.
:56:30. > :56:35.Well, that was the week in 60 seconds, Barnier has said the clock
:56:36. > :56:41.is ticking, do you expect much progress next week. It doesn't look
:56:42. > :56:46.like David Davis and his colleagues are being... Boris Johnson said the
:56:47. > :56:50.negotiators can go whistle about the divorce bill they have to pay. I
:56:51. > :56:54.don't know if they will get far unless they agree to pay some of the
:56:55. > :56:59.bill. It is going to be down to money? I have spoken to a number of
:57:00. > :57:05.Tory MPs, who are beginning to feel that we could pay, to get the sort
:57:06. > :57:08.of access and continuing relationship with things like
:57:09. > :57:15.Europol and so on and so forth I think it is about money. This is a
:57:16. > :57:20.typical street stall haggle. The EU saying we want this money and Boris
:57:21. > :57:23.is saying you will not get any. There will be something between the
:57:24. > :57:28.two. That will continue once we left? No, I think it will be a one
:57:29. > :57:31.off payment and might be bigger than we would have liked but to get out
:57:32. > :57:34.the EU is the ultimate objective. It wouldn't be a failure if we end up
:57:35. > :57:38.paying more than we expected. Do you see that or do you think payments
:57:39. > :57:42.for certain things will continue, aside from the sort of divorce bill?
:57:43. > :57:45.That would be the sensible thing to do, like Frazer said, I don't see
:57:46. > :57:50.any evidence of that happening. Theresa May has gone in for the
:57:51. > :57:55.hardest exit she possibly can, why would she begin softening it now.
:57:56. > :58:01.She sees it as a negotiating stance, talking of which, Jeremy Corbyn,
:58:02. > :58:05.there with Michelle barn yes, Nicola Sturgeon, they are having their own
:58:06. > :58:09.meetings, do they make a difference? They do, any opportunity the SNP
:58:10. > :58:14.gets to put a spoke in the wheels it will take, and a Labour
:58:15. > :58:19.administration, in Wales, SNP in Edinburgh, if they get a thing on
:58:20. > :58:24.this, it will be one more rod for Theresa May's back. The transition
:58:25. > :58:29.period, there is debate Liam Fox implying it could be a few months,
:58:30. > :58:34.others saying two years. This is another example of minister making
:58:35. > :58:38.it up as they go along, Labour keeps accusing the Cabinet of doing. It
:58:39. > :58:42.looks like they are doing that, I think that don't have a queue
:58:43. > :58:47.excited line on this. There is a long hot summer to go ahead.
:58:48. > :58:53.Thank you for being my guests of the day. Andrew will be back on Sunday
:58:54. > :58:56.on BBC One at 11 with the Sunday Politics and guests will include the
:58:57. > :58:57.international Trade Secretary Liam Fox. Bye.