:00:38. > :00:40.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:41. > :00:43.We've reached the end of the first full round of Brexit
:00:44. > :00:48.As we come on air, chief negotiators David Davis and Michel Barnier
:00:49. > :00:56.Barring any last-minute upsets, Vince Cable looks set to be
:00:57. > :01:00.crowned the new king of the Liberal Democrats,
:01:01. > :01:04.so what next for the party and why didn't anyone else want the job?
:01:05. > :01:06.MPs leave Westmister for the summer recess today,
:01:07. > :01:08.but can you always believe what they claim they're getting up
:01:09. > :01:15.Everybody that's actually going to go to Aruba or something
:01:16. > :01:18.is pretending that they're actually going to go to Aberystwyth.
:01:19. > :01:21.And we've given up asking the pollsters or the pundits
:01:22. > :01:23.what next for politics, so today we'll see if the fortunes
:01:24. > :01:41.of the party leaders are written in the stars.
:01:42. > :01:44.Even the music is running out of steam!
:01:45. > :01:47.Yes, I forsee all of that next hour of this final Daily Politics
:01:48. > :01:48.before Parliament rises for the summer recess.
:01:49. > :01:52.And I'm joined for all of it by two MPs who behave like it's the end
:01:53. > :01:55.of term most of the time anyway - it's Labour's David Lammy
:01:56. > :02:00.First today, the new leader of Kensington and Chelsea Council
:02:01. > :02:02.in London was officially appointed at a meeting last night,
:02:03. > :02:05.she's taken over following the fire at the Grenfell Tower
:02:06. > :02:12.Elizabeth Campbell said she was "deeply sorry" for the grief
:02:13. > :02:14.and trauma caused by the fire, which left at least 80
:02:15. > :02:21.But the council has been accused of being slow to respond
:02:22. > :02:23.and re-house residents, and many members of the public
:02:24. > :02:30.Councillor Campbell, would you like to address the chamber?
:02:31. > :02:47.The victims of this tragedy have been let down. We did not cope well
:02:48. > :02:55.enough in our initial response to the tragedy, and I know that you
:02:56. > :02:58.have heard me apologise for our inadequate response. Tonight I
:02:59. > :03:02.reiterate that apology to you directly. No ifs, no buts, no
:03:03. > :03:12.excuses. So that is the new leader of
:03:13. > :03:17.Kensington Council. There were protests in the gallery last night.
:03:18. > :03:24.David Lammy, you have been vocal in your response, is the council now
:03:25. > :03:28.getting a grip? They have got to, because in the end they are directly
:03:29. > :03:33.responsible for the people of North Kensington, so they've got to get a
:03:34. > :03:36.grip and do that with huge support from the Government. My own view is
:03:37. > :03:40.that there should have been commissioners brought in. You think
:03:41. > :03:44.the council should have been forced to step aside? I think so, because
:03:45. > :03:51.there is a view that the council is too small to cope with this crisis.
:03:52. > :03:57.But she was right to apologise and we have to move forward. In the
:03:58. > :04:01.weeks in the aftermath, Ed Vaizey, of the Grenfell Tower tragedy, aided
:04:02. > :04:04.seems that in Kensington Council you had to have a double-barrelled name
:04:05. > :04:11.and looked totally out of your depth. There was a case the central
:04:12. > :04:15.government taking over. And I think Elizabeth Campbell has apologised
:04:16. > :04:18.and made that point. I don't think the council itself has to be
:04:19. > :04:22.disbanded and replaced with commissioners, but it is clear that
:04:23. > :04:24.a small council like this, any council, regardless of political
:04:25. > :04:29.control, single barrelled names double-barrelled names, couldn't
:04:30. > :04:32.have coped with this terrible, unprecedented tragedy. So the
:04:33. > :04:39.Government should have stepped in sooner, and it has now stepped in.
:04:40. > :04:43.And the London mayor lays a key role as well. But clearly it is a
:04:44. > :04:49.national tragedy which deserves a national response, which is now
:04:50. > :04:52.happening. The central government response, Mrs May apologised and
:04:53. > :04:56.there was clearly something wrong with the central government response
:04:57. > :05:00.as well. I don't think anyone is going to shy away from the fact that
:05:01. > :05:03.the powers that be didn't get it in the first few days after it
:05:04. > :05:07.happened, what a tragedy this was on the scale of the response. David
:05:08. > :05:13.Lammy, do you still claim that the official death toll is far too low?
:05:14. > :05:18.Andrew, I never claimed. What I sought to do and continue to speak
:05:19. > :05:22.to do is speak for the victims and survivors, many of whom I know and
:05:23. > :05:26.you know I lost a friend. It came at last night. People watched people
:05:27. > :05:30.jumping out of windows. People knew their neighbours in this tight-knit
:05:31. > :05:36.community, and they don't recognise the number of 80. Police have
:05:37. > :05:40.confirmed that that is the number. They've said they think the number
:05:41. > :05:44.will rest at 80, but they have also said there are 23 homes that they
:05:45. > :05:50.are unsure about, and it is going to take some many months to work out
:05:51. > :05:53.who was in the building. But you talked about suspicions of a
:05:54. > :05:58.cover-up, the police I would take it in this situation, they are not part
:05:59. > :06:05.of the cover-up? You are asking me a question I can't answer. Why would
:06:06. > :06:08.the police cover it up? What I have said, and I'm clear in this, is that
:06:09. > :06:12.there have been situations like this in the past, Hillsborough is the one
:06:13. > :06:17.we all remember most recently, and the truth has taken 30 years to come
:06:18. > :06:23.out. And I'm afraid many of the folks down there, me included, are
:06:24. > :06:26.worried, and therefore my job as an elected backbencher in the Labour
:06:27. > :06:32.Party is to be extra vigilant, extra cautious. Again, you have said the
:06:33. > :06:37.official death toll is, quite, far, far too low. You have no evidence
:06:38. > :06:39.for that. My evidence is something you don't have, because I suspect
:06:40. > :06:45.you haven't spoken to as many victims as I do. With respect, that
:06:46. > :06:49.is not evidence. Testimony of people who live in the block is pretty good
:06:50. > :06:56.evidence. It would be evidence in a court of law. We need evidence to
:06:57. > :06:59.show that the official death toll is far too low. And you don't have
:07:00. > :07:04.that. Even the victims don't have it. They have their suspicions, and
:07:05. > :07:10.a stand that, and they are right to be suspicious... Have you had
:07:11. > :07:19.Cressida Dick on that show and asked that very question? The police have
:07:20. > :07:23.said, the BBC have asked... Don't turn it back on me. Do you have
:07:24. > :07:26.evidence that the official death toll is far, far too low, because
:07:27. > :07:31.you have stated that. Do you have evidence to back it up? Andrew, as a
:07:32. > :07:35.backbencher, I have spoken to survivors and victims. You have not
:07:36. > :07:39.put that question to the person in charge, don't put that question to
:07:40. > :07:43.me. You cannot make official statements like this unless you have
:07:44. > :07:49.the evidence, otherwise you're just playing politics with a really
:07:50. > :07:51.difficult, tragic situation. I resent the suggestion that I'm
:07:52. > :07:56.playing politics when I have a friend that has died, and I'm
:07:57. > :08:00.concerned that the BBC, your show, has not put the question to the
:08:01. > :08:05.person in charge, and you are putting the question to me when I'm
:08:06. > :08:10.speaking on the half of victims. The BBC has interviewed Cressida Dick.
:08:11. > :08:13.Don't make claims that are untrue. I have seen no interviews with
:08:14. > :08:17.Cressida Dick on this issue where she has talked about numbers. You
:08:18. > :08:21.need to talk to TV a bit more, then. You have got it wrong. At least you
:08:22. > :08:25.are on the show. You have got it wrong. You say I have got it wrong
:08:26. > :08:38.does not make you right. And it doesn't make
:08:39. > :08:41.you right. Once again, you are playing politics with a tragic
:08:42. > :08:43.situation. I am not playing politics, and I resent the
:08:44. > :08:46.suggestion about this tragedy in which I lost a friend, Andrew. Yes,
:08:47. > :08:48.that is tragic, and it doesn't mean you get to play politics. The
:08:49. > :08:49.viewers will make up their mind. That is very cheap. We will move
:08:50. > :08:52.onto something little lighter. The question for today
:08:53. > :08:55.is about the Brexit talks Last week we learned that
:08:56. > :08:59.David Davis' briefcase has been fitted with a device which blocks
:09:00. > :09:01.electronic signals to protect Now we've learned that
:09:02. > :09:05.the EU side is worried about eavesdropping,
:09:06. > :09:07.too - so what have they started Was it a) Hidden cameras b)
:09:08. > :09:11.Fingerprint scanners c) Invisible At the end of the show,
:09:12. > :09:15.David and Ed will give Let's stick with those talks
:09:16. > :09:26.because today marks the conclusion of the first full round of Brexit
:09:27. > :09:28.negotiations in Brussels The two sides are meeting
:09:29. > :09:34.for four days each month, and Brexit Secretary
:09:35. > :09:36.and the EU's Michel Barnier have this morning been talking
:09:37. > :09:39.about the progress they've made - Mr Davis and Mr Barnier have been
:09:40. > :09:43.reviewing four days of talks that have taken place
:09:44. > :09:45.between their negotiating On the table this week have
:09:46. > :09:49.been the thorny issues of citizen's rights,
:09:50. > :09:51.the Irish border and Britain's financial
:09:52. > :09:57.liabilities once we've left. By December this year,
:09:58. > :09:59.Michel Barnier has the initial discussions to finish,
:10:00. > :10:03.which may then lead to the start of talks on a new trade deal
:10:04. > :10:05.with the EU starting Also by the start of 2018
:10:06. > :10:12.the Government will want to have passed its Repeal Bill
:10:13. > :10:14.which will convert all EU law into British law,
:10:15. > :10:16.although opposition parties in both the Commons and the Lords
:10:17. > :10:22.could stall its progress. By October 2018 Mr Barnier has said
:10:23. > :10:26.he wants to have an agreement on the UK's exit deal and this
:10:27. > :10:29.will then be put to a vote in both the Lords and the Commons
:10:30. > :10:32.before then going to the European Parliament
:10:33. > :10:38.for approval. Once this happens it's down
:10:39. > :10:41.to the European Council to endorse the deal and then all being well
:10:42. > :11:06.the UK will be out of the EU We agree on the need for certainty
:11:07. > :11:10.on the part of citizens both in the EU and the UK, but we obviously have
:11:11. > :11:13.different views on how we achieve that. On financial settlement, we
:11:14. > :11:17.both recognise the importance of sorting out the obligations we have
:11:18. > :11:22.to one another, both legally and in the spirit of mutual corporation.
:11:23. > :11:28.We've had a robust but constructive talk. Clearly there is a lot left to
:11:29. > :11:31.talk about and further work before we can resolve this. Ultimately
:11:32. > :11:39.getting to a solution will require flexible at you from both sides, but
:11:40. > :11:41.as Michel said, we shouldn't expect incremental progress in every round.
:11:42. > :11:45.Let's speak now to our Europe correspondent, Kevin Connolly.
:11:46. > :11:52.This press conference has just been taking place. What have we learned
:11:53. > :11:57.so far? I had to tear myself away, so I'm not entirely sure how that is
:11:58. > :12:00.going to end, but I think the take away from the earlier part of the
:12:01. > :12:04.conference, which I suppose we can say would have been the message that
:12:05. > :12:10.they both went in with was that they want to emphasise there has been
:12:11. > :12:14.progress. Half the issues on citizens rights resolved, so
:12:15. > :12:19.generally I think a positive take on the first really substantial talks,
:12:20. > :12:23.getting to know the detail of each other's positions, but also of
:12:24. > :12:26.course that overall impression that there is a tremendous amount left to
:12:27. > :12:32.do, and that the obvious difficult issues like the European Court of
:12:33. > :12:36.Justice are exactly that, obviously difficult and not solved yet. And
:12:37. > :12:43.somewhere below that kind of mutual note of positivity, just a faint
:12:44. > :12:46.note of chippiness, I think. David Davis at one point turned to Michel
:12:47. > :12:50.Barnier and said to him, to coin a phrase, the clock is ticking, that
:12:51. > :12:54.of course being the phrase that Michel Barnier was using earlier in
:12:55. > :12:56.the process to imply that Britain was just not getting down to
:12:57. > :13:03.business, and was underprepared for these talks. Mr Barnier said there
:13:04. > :13:12.were still fundamental differences on Citizens' rights in the UK and
:13:13. > :13:16.the EU. That was something they were hoping for progress on, but still
:13:17. > :13:21.fundamental differences? Yes, the reality of citizens rights is that
:13:22. > :13:25.it is on two levels, there is the political level, where the European
:13:26. > :13:27.Union is adamant that the European Court of Justice should retain a
:13:28. > :13:33.role in all of this and oversee those rights, even for what will be
:13:34. > :13:42.caught the protective cohorts, the EU citizens currently living in the
:13:43. > :13:45.UK. That would give the ECJ role in British life, for the future, you
:13:46. > :13:51.think about people being born this year into a family living in
:13:52. > :13:56.Britain, possibly for 100 years. And the Theresa May, any role of the ECJ
:13:57. > :13:59.in Britain is a red line, so they have a big political and legal
:14:00. > :14:02.problem, but alongside all of that on citizens rights you have these
:14:03. > :14:06.tremendously conjugated issues about whether people will be able to vote
:14:07. > :14:10.in local governor to elections in different jurisdictions in future.
:14:11. > :14:19.What about the rights of posted workers, fun -- frontier workers,
:14:20. > :14:22.children bought -- born into families where the older children
:14:23. > :14:25.already have the protections and younger children may not, see you
:14:26. > :14:29.have both of those sets of difficulties in parallel. Overall
:14:30. > :14:32.the message is that a lot of progress is being made on a lot of
:14:33. > :14:37.those issues, and the British viewers that the European idea that
:14:38. > :14:41.Britain is underprepared is just wrong, but that issue of the ECJ and
:14:42. > :14:45.its future role looms in the background. Someone is going to have
:14:46. > :14:48.to give way on that and make a major concession, and it's not really
:14:49. > :14:53.clear yet who that's going to be. Kevin Connolly, thank you for that.
:14:54. > :14:55.Bringing us up-to-date on the press conference in Brussels between David
:14:56. > :14:57.Davis and Michel Barnier. We're joined now by
:14:58. > :15:07.the former deputy chairman Are our expectations too high? Are
:15:08. > :15:13.we wrong to expect some kind of breakthrough on major issues at this
:15:14. > :15:17.stage? Yes, I think our expectations are far too high and that is the
:15:18. > :15:21.problem I have had with the whole approach to Brexit. The country has
:15:22. > :15:26.voted to leave the EU and we are going to leave but suddenly the
:15:27. > :15:31.interpretation of what that means seems to be held by a particular
:15:32. > :15:38.small cabals of people who say it all has to happen by March, 2019, no
:15:39. > :15:45.transition, and anything with the E in it or Europe, cannot have a role.
:15:46. > :15:48.The ECJ will be an independent tribunal adjudicating on matters of
:15:49. > :15:52.law where we have a continuing relationship with the EU which we
:15:53. > :15:57.will have if we want to trade and if we want to give European citizens
:15:58. > :16:03.rights and we want British citizens to have rights in Europe. It can be
:16:04. > :16:09.tailored, it can have British judges on it, but what worries me is the
:16:10. > :16:15.ECJ redline, people seem to confuse it with the European Court of Human
:16:16. > :16:19.Rights. Nothing to do with the EU. Suzanne Evans, and then David Lammy.
:16:20. > :16:24.It does look now we are heading for quite a long transition period. Let
:16:25. > :16:31.me take apart a couple of things Ed said. I will take it apart. It is
:16:32. > :16:38.the EU is that set the timetable, it is no good you complaining about...
:16:39. > :16:44.It is Article 50. We triggered Article 50 under EU law. Which we
:16:45. > :16:53.agree to. We are members of the EU. If she is going to take me apart,
:16:54. > :16:57.she had better do it effectively! We have not even heard from David
:16:58. > :17:04.Lammy, we will come back to you. 52% of the people voted for it and you
:17:05. > :17:09.do the voters and your former constituents no good by claiming...
:17:10. > :17:14.The classic trick of claiming to speak for... We have got sucked into
:17:15. > :17:19.the quagmire of the EU, it just shows how much sovereignty we have
:17:20. > :17:22.given away. Do you accept their will in addition to the two-year period
:17:23. > :17:29.which is now under way under Article 50 that on a number of these issues,
:17:30. > :17:33.there will now have to be potentially prolonged transition
:17:34. > :17:36.periods? This is my worry. There is a deadline and we have to meet it.
:17:37. > :17:42.We do not want this to go on and on forever. It is not in the country's
:17:43. > :17:47.best interests. The sooner we can break free of the EU, the sooner we
:17:48. > :17:52.can make our own trade deals and control our own borders and be
:17:53. > :17:57.certain we are under British law. Do you think we are in for a prolonged
:17:58. > :18:04.transition deal? If we do not get a transition deal, there is a terrible
:18:05. > :18:13.cliff edge that while -- that will ruin our economy and jobs. It is a
:18:14. > :18:16.myth. For business and industry, there is a cliff edge, a lot of
:18:17. > :18:23.people in Britain will suffer. When you talk about a soft transition,
:18:24. > :18:26.you mean joining the EAA, all of the things I have just said, is control
:18:27. > :18:32.of borders, control of immigration, sovereignty of Parliament, that will
:18:33. > :18:36.not be possible if we stay in the single market. Some of it depends
:18:37. > :18:44.whether you put that control, the fantasy control, above the economy.
:18:45. > :18:48.I know the Labour Party thinks... It has promised to control immigration.
:18:49. > :18:52.I'm in disagreement with the bench on this. But I am saying it is a
:18:53. > :18:57.very peculiar thing to put immigration above the economy and
:18:58. > :19:01.without transition, we will crush the economy. Ed Vaizey, people like
:19:02. > :19:04.Suzanne Evans and people in your own party are suspicious of a long
:19:05. > :19:10.transition period because they think people like you will use it to be
:19:11. > :19:15.effectively endless so that we do not me. Exactly. It is a completely
:19:16. > :19:20.ideological approach to Brexit, completely barmy, takes no account
:19:21. > :19:24.of people's lives, jobs, British businesses. I am a remainer but we
:19:25. > :19:29.accept the result, there should be a transition period, we could be part
:19:30. > :19:36.of the EAA and sensible Brexiteers are coming to that opinion. But the
:19:37. > :19:41.Suzanne s do not give a monkeys about people's jobs. Quite
:19:42. > :19:49.extraordinary. It shows your arrogance. Why is it arrogant to...
:19:50. > :19:57.It is two of you against one. Show some respect and fairness here.
:19:58. > :20:02.Boeing, yeah! You do not think we should have fairness? -- oh, yeah. I
:20:03. > :20:09.do not think you showed me fairness earlier. Let us show fairness to
:20:10. > :20:16.Suzanne So much has still to be decided, there will inevitably loose
:20:17. > :20:21.ends that will require some kind of transition period now. Do you deny
:20:22. > :20:27.that? The analogy often given is that of divorce. In some ways, it is
:20:28. > :20:32.a bad analogy. There are children, the decree nice eye, when it is
:20:33. > :20:36.absolute, there are inevitably consequences but go on. We have
:20:37. > :20:40.always said we want to continue a good working relationship with the
:20:41. > :20:45.EU. The point is we need to do this in a spirit of harmony,
:20:46. > :20:49.communication, and what is best for our country. Let us be clear, is
:20:50. > :20:54.leaving the EU and getting a good trade deal in particular will be of
:20:55. > :20:58.benefit to the EU too. We have to be like responsible parent and discuss
:20:59. > :21:02.sensibly and look at what is in both our best interests. If you look at
:21:03. > :21:08.it logically, as a sensible Brexiteer, I do not like the fact
:21:09. > :21:11.you are saying some of us our sensible or some not depending on
:21:12. > :21:16.whether we agree with you. There is a potential for this to be in both
:21:17. > :21:19.our best interests and that is the deal we should be heading for and I
:21:20. > :21:23.hope that will come out of the press conference today. What would be left
:21:24. > :21:28.unresolved in a transition period and how long would it be? My view,
:21:29. > :21:33.my overview, is that we should be members of the EAA for a
:21:34. > :21:39.transitional period. Transitional time limited... It is the... I am
:21:40. > :21:44.trying to help people by explaining what bit EAA is. Tell our viewers
:21:45. > :21:49.what it is and why it would be... The European Economic Area, being
:21:50. > :21:53.part of the customs union and single market for a transition period to
:21:54. > :21:57.trade. There is no doubt it would be time limited and we would come out.
:21:58. > :22:02.What I want to avoid most of all is a cliff edge that takes us out of
:22:03. > :22:07.the European Union completely in the March, 2019. How long would it take?
:22:08. > :22:12.I have suggested five years. We remain in the single market and the
:22:13. > :22:17.customs union... While we work out the free trade deal that we want.
:22:18. > :22:24.You do not think the deal can be done by March of 2019? I would be
:22:25. > :22:28.staggered, if I am proved wrong, I am proved wrong... David Lammy, is
:22:29. > :22:33.that your position too? Would we do like to see a transition in which we
:22:34. > :22:36.remain in the single market and the customs union? I think it transition
:22:37. > :22:41.is essential because I absolutely disagree with Suzanne, I see no way
:22:42. > :22:46.on the timetable in which we can negotiate a free trade deal with
:22:47. > :22:49.Europe and negotiate our exit. There are too many big things to get
:22:50. > :22:56.through and you have seen just in this initial week the huge disputes
:22:57. > :23:00.over the cost of the bill and the huge dispute over what will happen
:23:01. > :23:05.to EU residents. The idea we can move on the trade is just
:23:06. > :23:08.impossible. Any lawyer will tell you who has negotiated on trade, it is
:23:09. > :23:17.impossible. For that reason alone, there has to be transition. Barry
:23:18. > :23:22.pessimistic. -- very pessimistic. We are in unique circumstances. Most
:23:23. > :23:27.trade deals negotiated from scratch. This would be a deal which
:23:28. > :23:30.inevitably would be less free than the current arrangement. Does that
:23:31. > :23:34.change things in your view? We have already seen what the benefits to us
:23:35. > :23:39.and the EU are of a free-trade deal because that is effectively what we
:23:40. > :23:42.have at the moment, it should not be too difficult for responsible adults
:23:43. > :23:47.to negotiate something very similar. With respect to both of you, start
:23:48. > :23:52.to be a bit more positive. There is a part of you that thinks you want
:23:53. > :23:57.Britain to fail on this. That is rubbish. I am not allowed to
:23:58. > :24:00.interrupt or whatever, but that is incredibly offensive. The idea that
:24:01. > :24:06.we want Britain to fail is ludicrous. We want to secure British
:24:07. > :24:12.jobs. Let us agreed that we want British dogs. -- British jobs. Thank
:24:13. > :24:15.you. If you're someone who always waits
:24:16. > :24:18.until the last possible day before filling out an application
:24:19. > :24:21.or your tax return, you'll know how They often wait until the last day
:24:22. > :24:25.before the summer recess to release details of those tricky decisions
:24:26. > :24:28.they've been thinking about. They're sometimes even accused
:24:29. > :24:39.of trying to bury bad I am one of those people so dare I
:24:40. > :24:42.suggest I have a little bit of sympathy for the Government. The
:24:43. > :24:45.Government say they are trying to finish things up and the opposition
:24:46. > :24:50.say they are trying to sneak things out. There are 22 written statements
:24:51. > :24:55.today trickled out on the Parliament website, generally pretty normal for
:24:56. > :24:58.this time of year for the end of term, but quite technical stuff. For
:24:59. > :25:02.example, we find out today from Michael Fallon that one of the
:25:03. > :25:10.Navy's new frigates will be called HMS Glasgow. Another one, the
:25:11. > :25:14.transfer rate will remain at 12% in 2019 and 2020. Me neither. It is
:25:15. > :25:18.significant if you are involved in farming. Interesting nuggets have
:25:19. > :25:22.come out today for example on the railways. The electrification of the
:25:23. > :25:25.Midland mainland and parts of the great Western Railway in South Wales
:25:26. > :25:31.will not be electrified. The Government says it is too avoid
:25:32. > :25:35.disruptive works that does not need to happen now because of new
:25:36. > :25:39.technology. But many people hoped it would happen. All of this comes when
:25:40. > :25:44.yesterday we had the announcement the state pension age will rise to
:25:45. > :25:48.68 and that will be brought forward. It was always going to be 68 but it
:25:49. > :25:54.was going to happen nine years later. That will affect 6 million
:25:55. > :25:57.extra people between 39 and 47. That was pretty controversial, the
:25:58. > :26:02.Government was accused of trying to sneak out but bad news yesterday. As
:26:03. > :26:04.ever, Andrew, nothing much gets passed us.
:26:05. > :26:07.Indeed. Quite right. Thanks for that.
:26:08. > :26:10.Let's talk now about the race, if that's the right word,
:26:11. > :26:12.to become the next Liberal Democrat leader, because nominations
:26:13. > :26:14.for this keenly-watched contest close later today.
:26:15. > :26:16.You will remember that Tim Farron announced his resignation
:26:17. > :26:18.from the job last month, saying he felt his Christian
:26:19. > :26:20.faith was incompatible with leading the party.
:26:21. > :26:23.Here he is speaking to 5 Live last week.
:26:24. > :26:27.Well, we've heard about people shedding tears
:26:28. > :26:32.I'm somebody who does shed tears occasionally if things move me.
:26:33. > :26:34.Generally not things to do with myself.
:26:35. > :26:37.Well, actually, no, I completely held it together,
:26:38. > :26:42.I knew what I was going to do, I made the little statement
:26:43. > :26:44.in party headquarters, and was about to head off up north,
:26:45. > :26:49.and I just got this lovely text from my 15-year-old saying,
:26:50. > :26:52."I'm very proud of you," and I had a cry then.
:26:53. > :26:56.But that was more really the fact that it's nice being reminded
:26:57. > :27:02.So, with nominations closing at 4pm, who are the runners and riders
:27:03. > :27:08.Well, the first to throw his hat in the ring was the former
:27:09. > :27:16.seat back from the Conservatives at the general election,
:27:17. > :27:21.and he's dismissed suggestions that at 74 he is too old for the job.
:27:22. > :27:29.Yes, Vince was the first and only one of the party's 12 MPs
:27:30. > :27:32.to say he wanted to stand, so barring any last-minute
:27:33. > :27:37.upsets, my professional opinion is he's fairly likely to win.
:27:38. > :27:43.Well, we're joined now by one of those who didn't stand.
:27:44. > :27:46.She's the party's new Education Spokeswoman, Layla Moran.
:27:47. > :27:56.Good to see you. Why it has no one else decided to stand? Some people
:27:57. > :27:59.considered it, I think. In the end, it has to be about who is right at
:28:00. > :28:04.the time and a number of people thought about it in the context of
:28:05. > :28:07.young families, for example, and decided it was not the time for them
:28:08. > :28:14.right now. It has to be a job you want. The answer for a left-wing,
:28:15. > :28:21.Progressive party that preaches diversity and representing
:28:22. > :28:25.21st-century Britain is a 74-year-old white guy. Yeah, a
:28:26. > :28:29.74-year-old white guy who also want other people to have the best
:28:30. > :28:32.possible opportunity. You have to judge someone on what they do and
:28:33. > :28:36.not what they looked like. The fact he is older does not matter so long
:28:37. > :28:40.as he is championing the causes of young people. The fact he is white
:28:41. > :28:47.does not matter so long as he is championing the causes of minority
:28:48. > :28:51.backgrounds. I would much rather seen a woman... Why didn't you
:28:52. > :29:00.stand? I was elected weeks ago, are you mad? That is very flattering. A
:29:01. > :29:05.lot of MPs have a tradition of going for leadership when people do not
:29:06. > :29:12.expect it. Maybe next time. Why has no woman decided to stand? I don't
:29:13. > :29:16.know. I can tell you why I didn't. I was just elected. There are four of
:29:17. > :29:20.us. That is an issue. We do definitely need more MPs if more are
:29:21. > :29:24.going to throw their hats into the ring. If you look at the position of
:29:25. > :29:29.the Lib Dems at the moment from where they were when they joined the
:29:30. > :29:33.coalition in 2010, it is clearly a long fight back you are going to
:29:34. > :29:37.have, it is not going to... The last election, you got a few more MPs,
:29:38. > :29:42.but your share of the vote fell, no breakthrough at all. It will be
:29:43. > :29:47.several elections before you can re-establish your position. Don't
:29:48. > :29:53.you need somebody who was going to be there for the duration? Mr cable,
:29:54. > :29:58.he will be, if this parliament goes its full round, he will be 80 by the
:29:59. > :30:02.next election, almost. No future in that for you, is there? We will see
:30:03. > :30:09.where it goes. I bought his book quite early on when I joined the
:30:10. > :30:14.party, Free Radical. I think there are lots of progressive, young ideas
:30:15. > :30:18.in that book. The party itself is not just one person and the Liberal
:30:19. > :30:22.Democrats are very good at having a multitude of people feed into the
:30:23. > :30:27.direction of the party. I agree with you, it will take us a long time to
:30:28. > :30:30.come back, but there are signs we are. Vince Cable has said we want to
:30:31. > :30:40.overtake the Conservatives in our membership, we are not far off, so
:30:41. > :30:46.we are coming, Ed. The number of MPs customer not yet. You start where
:30:47. > :30:50.you are strong. We certainly have a strong, young, vigorous membership.
:30:51. > :30:53.From there, we will get a new crop, myself being one, and we will have
:30:54. > :30:58.more and more people come forward and I hope the lot of them are women
:30:59. > :31:03.and from ethnic minority backgrounds. When you go to the
:31:04. > :31:09.conference which I have done many times... You bought me a drink, I
:31:10. > :31:13.remember it well. You have to pass the time somehow! It is geriatric
:31:14. > :31:20.city, isn't it? I would not say so, I was there. That is why I bought
:31:21. > :31:24.you a drink! If you look at the make-up of 50% of members who have
:31:25. > :31:28.joined us in the last election, it is a huge number of young people who
:31:29. > :31:33.have joined the party who are very excited over where we are going.
:31:34. > :31:41.What about the policy on Brexit under Vincent cable? Will that
:31:42. > :31:45.change? No, we are proudly pro-European, we always have been
:31:46. > :31:49.and we stay that way. I think he is taking it even further than Tim
:31:50. > :31:54.Farron has been, and saying that he doesn't see it happening, and my
:31:55. > :31:59.first few weeks in the house, I can see how that might work out. Your
:32:00. > :32:03.new leader, or at least will be at close of play today, he previously
:32:04. > :32:07.argued against a second referendum on the outcome of the Brexit talks,
:32:08. > :32:11.but that is still your party's policy? Yes, that is the party
:32:12. > :32:16.policy and we are strong on that. So he has changed his mind? I don't
:32:17. > :32:20.know if he said that before, but it is certainly where we stand now, and
:32:21. > :32:26.it looks like public opinion is coming across. A recent poll showed
:32:27. > :32:30.that 53% with the increasingly difficult circumstances under which
:32:31. > :32:34.these talks are taking place, I do think that there is a case, and
:32:35. > :32:38.increasingly growing case in the eyes of many people, that is to have
:32:39. > :32:43.a say on what finally comes out of this mess is the right thing to do.
:32:44. > :32:50.OK. David Lammy, what do you make of the return of Vince Cable? I have
:32:51. > :32:54.always personally got on with him as a fellow London MP. I think the Lib
:32:55. > :32:59.Dems need a grown-up, to be honest, and he is definitely a grown-up. He
:33:00. > :33:02.is seasoned, he has been around Parliament a long time, he knows
:33:03. > :33:08.what he's doing. These are incredibly difficult times for our
:33:09. > :33:10.country, and you know, the Lib Dems are currently a small party. I
:33:11. > :33:16.suspect he's the right person at this time, but I hope that others
:33:17. > :33:20.who are bit younger will come through in the next short while, the
:33:21. > :33:25.next period, and we will see those people prominent in his team. I've
:33:26. > :33:41.got a lot of affection for their position in Europe. Mr Cable...
:33:42. > :33:50.Don't we call him Sir Vince? You don't get titles on this show. It
:33:51. > :33:53.may be a stretch of Labour to win an overall majority in another
:33:54. > :33:56.election, but they could do the largest party. There is room for
:33:57. > :34:02.deals, negotiation with the Lib Dems, is that not a threat to the
:34:03. > :34:07.Tories? Might well be room for coalitions. We will fight Labour and
:34:08. > :34:11.the Lib Dems equally vigorously. I think they are scarred by their
:34:12. > :34:15.experience of coalition with us, but of course we are going to win the
:34:16. > :34:24.next election hands down, so it is a hypothetical question. Like you did
:34:25. > :34:27.last time?! I was one of Vince's ministers in the Department of
:34:28. > :34:31.business, and I do have a lot of time and respect for him, and I
:34:32. > :34:34.think he will be a good and effectively do. I want to ask the
:34:35. > :34:39.question of why the Lib Dems have broken through, and I say that in
:34:40. > :34:41.the spirit of enquiry. I was surprised at the last election that
:34:42. > :34:44.they didn't make the kind of breakthrough I thought they might do
:34:45. > :34:49.with Remain voters perhaps effectively punishing... That was
:34:50. > :34:57.the strategy, but it didn't seem to... We can't talk you into a
:34:58. > :35:03.last-minute bid? I'm very flattered, thank you, but no. From you, that is
:35:04. > :35:12.very flattering. The drinks are on you next time! Absolutely.
:35:13. > :35:14.The Commons and the Lords rise for summer recess today,
:35:15. > :35:16.leaving Westminster to the tourists until September.
:35:17. > :35:18.Of course, MPs have plenty of work to do back home
:35:19. > :35:21.in their constituencies, but most of them will probably be
:35:22. > :35:24.taking a holiday too and Theresa May has been telling the Tories to go
:35:25. > :35:28.Cynics might suggest that's in part so they don't spend the summer
:35:29. > :35:31.Jeremy Corbyn had a different message.
:35:32. > :35:34.He told Labour MPs that they needed to help him mount a summer election
:35:35. > :35:37.He really knows how to enjoy himself.
:35:38. > :35:41.That's the question Emma Vardy put to MPs.
:35:42. > :35:43.# We're going where the sun shines brightly
:35:44. > :35:46.# We're going where the skies are blue
:35:47. > :35:59.I hope it's a summer of beauty, kindness,
:36:00. > :36:01.everyone getting on with each other, resolving our differences and trying
:36:02. > :36:05.Well, everybody has a break, don't they?
:36:06. > :36:09.Do think the plotting against Theresa May may calm down,
:36:10. > :36:12.or do you think it's going to rumble on over summer?
:36:13. > :36:14.I don't think people want to plot against the Prime Minister.
:36:15. > :36:18.I think what we want to do is have a Government that is driving
:36:19. > :36:23.forward with a strong agenda as well as dealing with Brexit.
:36:24. > :36:25.I think everybody needs a summer break.
:36:26. > :36:27.I don't think MPs are underworked or they take too long
:36:28. > :36:31.I suppose you would think of me as part of the union
:36:32. > :36:35.I think a lot of people are heading off.
:36:36. > :36:39.Everybody that's actually going to go to Aruba or something
:36:40. > :36:41.is pretending that they're actually going to go to Aberystwyth, because
:36:42. > :36:46.Are you a sort of cocktails on the beach man, or a walking
:36:47. > :36:49.Our constituency has some fantastic beaches,
:36:50. > :36:52.so I suppose I'll be doing a lot of that, walking on the beach.
:36:53. > :36:54.We've got a food festival in September as well,
:36:55. > :36:57.But actually, above all, it's just an opportunity
:36:58. > :36:59.to spend time with residents in the constituency.
:37:00. > :37:04.And we're joined now by Julia Hobsbawm.
:37:05. > :37:06.She's the author of a book called Fully Connected -
:37:07. > :37:09.Surviving and Thriving in an Age of Overload, and she's been
:37:10. > :37:14.writing about the important of switching off on holiday.
:37:15. > :37:20.Welcome to the programme. Hello. There is a time of great political
:37:21. > :37:28.change, Labour hopes there will be a slap election -- snap election. The
:37:29. > :37:32.Government mired in bricks and negotiations. Is this really a good
:37:33. > :37:36.time from holiday. Probably not, and even if it is, it is difficult to
:37:37. > :37:41.do, because Every has got their smartphone, which they need to board
:37:42. > :37:49.the plane with, or they need their smart maps. 60% of us go online on
:37:50. > :37:53.our mobiles, so even if we want to disconnect, it's actually really
:37:54. > :37:56.hard to do. But as you are pointing out, psychologically, we are now
:37:57. > :38:01.pretty embedded in these networks, and it is very difficult to say,
:38:02. > :38:06.thanks, I'm taking a break. It is difficult in the sense of just
:38:07. > :38:10.switching off and not looking at the smartphone or consulting the iPad
:38:11. > :38:14.while we are away, at least for a period of time. Do you recommend
:38:15. > :38:19.that we do? I think each person, it is a bit like diet and fitness. You
:38:20. > :38:31.have to find your own strategy. But having no strategy is a bad idea.
:38:32. > :38:37.We have infobesity like we have a obesity. It is not easy to do, but I
:38:38. > :38:40.certainly think that having rules and regulations saying I will be
:38:41. > :38:45.online for this amount of time per day, or I am going to actually have
:38:46. > :38:55.some time when I just turn my mobile off. I have a day when I turn my
:38:56. > :39:00.technology off, and one day a week, I am disconnected. Of course I cheat
:39:01. > :39:05.sometimes, but I try not to. And it really makes a difference. It really
:39:06. > :39:09.makes a difference to just read and talk and be face-to-face and not on
:39:10. > :39:12.Facebook. I would definitely say nobody should be on Facebook over
:39:13. > :39:16.the holidays. You have to cut the cord. Politicians are exhausted at
:39:17. > :39:22.the moment. This has been an exhausting period. We all are, we
:39:23. > :39:25.are all completely overloaded. There is more data now produced in a
:39:26. > :39:30.single year than in the whole of human history. We are drowning. So
:39:31. > :39:34.the answer isn't to stuff ourselves with more information, and these
:39:35. > :39:40.rolling feeds and rolling news make people edgy, so I think that our
:39:41. > :39:44.social health, as I put it, which is everything to do with how we
:39:45. > :39:49.connect, you have to, because actually politicians that lack
:39:50. > :39:53.social health, and I exclude these two fine gentleman, time and time
:39:54. > :39:56.again you see an absence of social health where people are so
:39:57. > :40:02.overloaded, they are not making sensible decisions, and they are
:40:03. > :40:05.tuning out anyway. David Lammy, will you switch your phone off? I think I
:40:06. > :40:12.want to take Julia as my therapist! This is fantastic. I would
:40:13. > :40:17.definitely be literally putting the phones in a drawer and chatting
:40:18. > :40:20.away. And the reason for that is we have had a general election which
:40:21. > :40:27.went on for a very long time. We have then had a very tough period in
:40:28. > :40:31.politics, and certainly Grenfell has been at the forefront. I want to
:40:32. > :40:36.spend time with my wife and kids. I have a three-year-old. I want to
:40:37. > :40:40.read the Gruffalo, more than once. And that is a very good aim indeed,
:40:41. > :40:46.but how long will the phones be in the draw? Half an hour!
:40:47. > :40:50.LAUGHTER I feared you might say that. To be
:40:51. > :40:55.fair, you have a little luck in the morning after breakfast, and then
:40:56. > :40:59.you put them away, and there are staff, wonderful staff, who are able
:41:00. > :41:04.that only, you can be away, and if summary said to me once, if a plane
:41:05. > :41:11.falls on your constituency, the Prime Minister will deal with it.
:41:12. > :41:15.Good luck with that! That's true! According to Mr Corbyn, you are
:41:16. > :41:21.meant to be campaigning in 75 marginal seats. Are we? Yes! He
:41:22. > :41:24.can't do it all himself. It is going to be minus David Lammy friendlies
:41:25. > :41:29.two weeks. Didn't you go to the Parliamentary Labour Party meeting
:41:30. > :41:33.this week? I have to confess I wasn't there. You were looking at
:41:34. > :41:36.your mobile phone! That is what he said, he said that they are looking
:41:37. > :41:40.forward to a long recess, but my bad news is that they are not getting
:41:41. > :41:47.one, that's you, not you personally but Labour MPs, because they have
:41:48. > :41:50.got to go campaigning. I want to disagree publicly on that. I
:41:51. > :41:54.honestly think we need a rest, we need a quiet, we need a period where
:41:55. > :41:58.it is not politics, we are talking about EastEnders or something.
:41:59. > :42:03.Productivity around the world is stagnant, stress levels are soaring,
:42:04. > :42:08.so this fully connected life is not yielding the benefits we have been
:42:09. > :42:12.promised, but we have to want to make behavioural changes, and I'm
:42:13. > :42:16.reminded about that joke, how many Californian psychoanalysts does it
:42:17. > :42:20.take to change a light bulb? One, but the light bulb has to want to
:42:21. > :42:23.change. You have to want to disconnect, or you will find a
:42:24. > :42:27.million reasons not to. You will want to disconnect, otherwise how
:42:28. > :42:34.could you continue to plot with fellow Tories against Theresa May? I
:42:35. > :42:38.hate holidays anywhere! I get so bored on holiday, so my phone comes
:42:39. > :42:43.out the minute we arrive on holiday, and a good holiday for me is using
:42:44. > :42:48.my phone and not seeing my children for two weeks. Absolutely perfect. I
:42:49. > :42:52.would be plotting against Theresa May, but after my row with Suzanne
:42:53. > :42:56.Evans, I will have to spend the next three months on Twitter batting off
:42:57. > :43:02.the Ukip is coming for Mr letting my country down. He is a lost cause! He
:43:03. > :43:06.isn't, he has bought my book and he is halfway through it. He wants to
:43:07. > :43:10.change, here's the light bulb. I haven't had a chance to read it, I
:43:11. > :43:13.have been on Twitter! We will leave you to it.
:43:14. > :43:16.So, assuming MPs do get at least some time off over the summer,
:43:17. > :43:19.like the rest of us, they'll be looking for a good book to read.
:43:20. > :43:22.And if they don't fancy the latest Dan Brown,
:43:23. > :43:24.then luckily for them, the MP Keith Simpson produces an annual
:43:25. > :43:50.OK, not all of us were on the BBC's talent rich list yesterday,
:43:51. > :43:53.but who needs Honolulu when you've got the Costa del Thames?
:43:54. > :43:55.Besides, doesn't matter where you are when your
:43:56. > :44:01.Making the list this year, three authors whose other
:44:02. > :44:07.Ann Clwyd's a very personal memoir, Johnny Mercer writes
:44:08. > :44:09.about his time in Afghanistan, and Chris Bryant critiques
:44:10. > :44:20.If the process of government is your thing, you're in luck.
:44:21. > :44:22.There are, for example, three titles which look
:44:23. > :44:25.into what the Cabinet Secretary does and one about the Prime Minister's
:44:26. > :44:32.As ever, there are some good reads on the world wars,
:44:33. > :44:35.from the battlefield of Passchendaele,
:44:36. > :44:40.the resistance to the Nazis, and turncoat Gestapo agents.
:44:41. > :44:50.Of course, there are authors who have done plenty of digging
:44:51. > :44:52.into history and unearthed some real factual gems.
:44:53. > :44:54.There are diamonds and Romans and husband hunters,
:44:55. > :45:00.Theresa May told her MPs to relax this summer.
:45:01. > :45:02.For those who really can't take their minds off
:45:03. > :45:05.plotting, there is also a book about Machiavelli.
:45:06. > :45:08.Now, you might need a longer holiday than you thought.
:45:09. > :45:10.The list covers all sorts of subjects and there are 42
:45:11. > :45:16.It's pretty heavy going, so you may consider packing a little
:45:17. > :45:42.There are 40 books on your list, do you present this to your fellow MPs
:45:43. > :45:47.as a selection or they should read the 40? It is a pick and mix. The
:45:48. > :45:51.whips like to think they will read the 40. David has just said it
:45:52. > :45:56.should be fiction and my wife would agree. Every MP invariably says to
:45:57. > :46:02.me, I do want to read one proper nonfiction book. All I do and I have
:46:03. > :46:08.read a lot of them is draw a cross-section. You do this every
:46:09. > :46:15.year? It started ten years ago when I was working with William Hague and
:46:16. > :46:22.I did it as a joke and it caught on. Have you read all 40? I have read
:46:23. > :46:26.two thirds. Why are you recommending once you have not read? They are
:46:27. > :46:29.ones other colleagues have read and I have looked at them and thought, I
:46:30. > :46:37.am going to get around to reading them. If you had, say, only one book
:46:38. > :46:42.that you had to recommend. An MP says, I have only time for one book.
:46:43. > :46:50.What would it be? It would actually be my colleague Johnny Mercer's
:46:51. > :46:55.book. I always look out for books written by colleagues. Johnny
:46:56. > :47:00.arrived in 2015, Central office said he would never take a seat off
:47:01. > :47:04.Labour, he got re-elected, he was a regular soldier. I thought, I knew
:47:05. > :47:08.what it would be like. I had no idea he was brought up in an incredibly
:47:09. > :47:12.strict Baptist household. All kinds of problems with his parents.
:47:13. > :47:17.Eventually went into the army, served three tours in Afghanistan.
:47:18. > :47:22.He writes brilliantly. He had a very good friend shot next to him which
:47:23. > :47:33.traumatised him. He decided he would go into politics the Conservative
:47:34. > :47:35.Party and he has worked hard at it. Afghanistan has dropped off our
:47:36. > :47:38.vision. Seven, eight years ago, we were all concerned with it. I can
:47:39. > :47:48.really recommend it. It is pretty earthy. One soldier's story about
:47:49. > :47:52.brutal combat. It came out at the beginning of the general election
:47:53. > :47:56.and his agent managed to get it listed and extracts from it in the
:47:57. > :48:03.Daily Mail in the middle of the election. The list is quite serious.
:48:04. > :48:11.Quite heavyweight. Don't MPs deserve a bit of light relief as well? Yeah,
:48:12. > :48:16.they can do that. They can dip into a well-known book shop or go on to
:48:17. > :48:21.Amazon and get novels. I have... I don't know if it is sexist. Several
:48:22. > :48:25.female MPs have said to me, including recently a Labour MP,
:48:26. > :48:29.look, Keith, when is your book list coming out? My husband is pretty
:48:30. > :48:33.good with the kids on the beach for the first week, but after that, he
:48:34. > :48:42.wants one heavyweight book to read. What about a history book? I would
:48:43. > :48:49.recommend One Hot Summer. The author has taken 1858 and it is relevant
:48:50. > :48:56.because she weaves together three great characters. Disraeli,
:48:57. > :49:00.Chancellor of the Exchequer, Darwin, Origins Of The Species, 1858, he
:49:01. > :49:07.rushed it out, and Dickens, going through a rather messy divorce. It
:49:08. > :49:11.is about Parliament as well and 1858 was a horrendous hot summer. The
:49:12. > :49:16.Thames stank. There were no proper sewers. As often the case,
:49:17. > :49:22.Parliament panicked and we brought through a whole series of bills
:49:23. > :49:28.which enabled the engineers but the embankment and everything else. It
:49:29. > :49:33.is funny as well. They are building a new super sewer down the Thames
:49:34. > :49:38.these days. We hope it will work. David Lammy, have you decided, any
:49:39. > :49:43.of these books catch your fancy? I thought it was all a bit heavy but
:49:44. > :49:48.you have now persuaded me I have got to buy Johnny Mercer's book.
:49:49. > :49:52.Otherwise it is Lee Childs for me. I want something like, nonfiction,
:49:53. > :49:58.easy. Heavy politics put to one side. I can understand that. All of
:49:59. > :50:03.this effort... Understandably... It is also quite hard to read a heavy
:50:04. > :50:08.book in the sun. You need something... What is your reading
:50:09. > :50:13.list? This is why you bring David and I together. My answer is
:50:14. > :50:16.identical. Johnny Mercer's book, it has had incredible reviews and I am
:50:17. > :50:23.definitely now going to read it. I will obviously take that free copy.
:50:24. > :50:34.Not before I do! Lee Child is my default option on holiday. Keith
:50:35. > :50:39.sticks to politics. East-west Street I am also very keen to read and a
:50:40. > :50:43.must read if you want to sound sophisticated about the future of
:50:44. > :50:48.the planet. The other one I would mention, your rival from another
:50:49. > :51:00.organisation, The Women Who Made Politics. Absolutely excellent.
:51:01. > :51:04.Sophy Ridge from Sky. Some of your fellow parliamentarians find time to
:51:05. > :51:14.write books as well. They do indeed. In one case, their researcher wrote
:51:15. > :51:19.it. Name them! Not Johnny Mercer. Our great collie, the man known as
:51:20. > :51:25.the Prime Minister's brain, Oliver Letwin, he has got a book coming out
:51:26. > :51:29.about hearts and minds this October -- our great colleague. Partly
:51:30. > :51:40.autobiographical, Thatcher up to... And another... Ann Clwyd brought out
:51:41. > :51:45.a memoir recently. They've lot do. Is Jacob Rees Mogg going to write a
:51:46. > :51:50.book? The parliamentarian first elected in 1834 is too busy deciding
:51:51. > :51:58.whether he wants to be Speaker or leader of the party. He probably
:51:59. > :52:01.will write a book but it will be in Latin!
:52:02. > :52:04.At this point in the political year, we often ask some pundits
:52:05. > :52:06.for their predictions about the fortunes of the party
:52:07. > :52:09.leaders when normal service resumes in September.
:52:10. > :52:11.But as the pundits have proved so comprehensively
:52:12. > :52:13.useless in recent years, today we're looking
:52:14. > :52:15.elsewhere for guidance - specifically, to the stars.
:52:16. > :52:18.As I'm not, you may be surprised to learn, a great expert in studying
:52:19. > :52:20.the significance of celestial objects, we're joined
:52:21. > :52:21.now by the astrologer Alison Chester-Lambert.
:52:22. > :52:24.Alison, what are your predictions for Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn?
:52:25. > :52:34.Well, thank you. So, let us start with Jeremy Corbyn. This guy has a
:52:35. > :52:39.son in Gemini and a moon in Taurus. This makes him very young at heart
:52:40. > :52:44.and he has great appeal for the young. This year, he cannot do a lot
:52:45. > :52:48.wrong. He has some very good transits on his side. He is one to
:52:49. > :52:55.watch and definitely for the foreseeable future. Then we turn to
:52:56. > :53:04.Theresa May. She has a sun in Libra and a moon in Virgo. Her sun has
:53:05. > :53:07.echoes of Margaret Thatcher's sun in Libra but Theresa May has a little
:53:08. > :53:14.more compassion and a little less intransigence. Theresa May is not
:53:15. > :53:18.having a good year, astrology can only describe what it finds, and
:53:19. > :53:24.what we see is that she is struggling with vulnerability, she
:53:25. > :53:27.is disempowered and absolutely her strength is dwindling all of the
:53:28. > :53:36.time, especially in August of this year. She is going to struggle. We
:53:37. > :53:41.have this description of people as fatally wounded and it does not seem
:53:42. > :53:48.to get much better in the foreseeable future. Ed Vaizey,
:53:49. > :53:55.astrologically speaking, your leader is in trouble. In August! What are
:53:56. > :54:04.you going to do about it? Ask peace. I am sure she will recover -- ask
:54:05. > :54:10.Keith. She will come back fighting. I have a lot of respect for our
:54:11. > :54:18.resident astrologer. Theresa May has had difficulties. I think it can be
:54:19. > :54:26.beaten over the August... What is it? See how quickly I adapt? You
:54:27. > :54:35.pick up the lingo very quickly! I have noticed that for a while, Ed
:54:36. > :54:43.Vaizey. Many years! Not a bad astrological outlook for Mr Corbyn?
:54:44. > :54:47.The runes look good for Jeremy Corbyn, good summer and good year. I
:54:48. > :54:57.think the idea that August might be so bad that... Another general
:54:58. > :55:02.election but quickly. Your heart just sings! There we go. Back to
:55:03. > :55:06.Alison, the Brexit negotiators, David Davis for the UK, Michel
:55:07. > :55:13.Barnier for the EU, what do the stars behold for them? Right, OK,
:55:14. > :55:20.David Davis's chart, I opened his chart and I saw he had not one
:55:21. > :55:24.planet in Capricorn, four planets in Capricorn. I was thinking, there we
:55:25. > :55:30.go, strength, perseverance, power, this man has it all. Great, he is on
:55:31. > :55:36.our side. That will do. Then I opened Michel Barnier's chart and I
:55:37. > :55:40.was amazed to see he also has four planets in Capricorn. That is some
:55:41. > :55:45.coincidence. Michel Barnier seems to have the edge because his moon is in
:55:46. > :55:54.Aquarius and this can be quite intransigent and very fixed and he
:55:55. > :55:59.is a very clever strategist, quite brilliant. Oh, dear. Next year, it
:56:00. > :56:04.appears David Davis pulls through, he gets a huge boost from Pluto, as
:56:05. > :56:08.if he has been plugged into a nuclear power station, and at that
:56:09. > :56:13.point, he powers ahead. Certainly one to watch anyway. Very
:56:14. > :56:21.interesting. There you go. Remainers like you, you had better send a new
:56:22. > :56:29.computer! I have always said that David Davis was a four planets in
:56:30. > :56:32.Capricorn kind of guy. Did you know Pluto was his ally? Watch out for
:56:33. > :56:40.the nuclear power Pluto, it will take off. I think it is more Pluto
:56:41. > :56:48.in Mickey Mouse. Pluto the dog! He has the dog on his side as well! It
:56:49. > :56:53.is uncanny, four planet Capricorn man meets another. It obviously
:56:54. > :56:59.means for tight negotiations. Give us a prediction for the summer? What
:57:00. > :57:02.can we expect? I understand there is a coast-to-coast solar eclipse in
:57:03. > :57:07.America, what does that mean? Absolutely, there is. On the 21st of
:57:08. > :57:12.August, we have a coast-to-coast solar eclipse across America. These
:57:13. > :57:17.things usually happen once a century. But strangely, America has
:57:18. > :57:22.two, one on the 21st of August, another in seven years' time. This
:57:23. > :57:28.is an interesting one because if we go back to a bar baloney and times,
:57:29. > :57:36.eclipses always foretold of the fall of nations and the fall of leaders
:57:37. > :57:41.-- Babylonian times. It hits Donald Trump's chart very keenly. He is
:57:42. > :57:44.rattled by this and he looks considerably weakened by the
:57:45. > :57:48.eclipse. Who knows, another one to watch, could be exciting. Cracking
:57:49. > :57:53.stuff! You should do this every week! Yes, I agree!
:57:54. > :58:00.LAUGHTER Can you tell us, will there be
:58:01. > :58:06.another election this year? I have not looked at the astrology. I would
:58:07. > :58:13.not have thought so. I am a big fan of your analysis that surely Vince
:58:14. > :58:17.willpower to centre stage, six planets in his Capricorn. Thank you
:58:18. > :58:20.very much. Thank you very much, I enjoyed it.
:58:21. > :58:23.There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.
:58:24. > :58:25.The question was, "David Davis' briefcase has been fitted
:58:26. > :58:27.with a device which blocks electronic signals
:58:28. > :58:30.But what have the EU side started using to stop espionage?"
:58:31. > :58:32.Was it, a, hidden camera, b, fingerprint scanners,
:58:33. > :58:34.c, invisible ink, or, d, an underwater car?
:58:35. > :58:37.So, David and Ed, what's the correct answer?
:58:38. > :58:46.Underwater car. Yes. The correct answer. No. It is fingerprinting.
:58:47. > :58:49.They have not got an underwater car. The one o'clock news is starting
:58:50. > :59:00.over on BBC One now. I will be back tonight with the
:59:01. > :59:06.final This Week of the season. Tried to join us.
:59:07. > :59:09.Promise me that you'll come and find me.