:00:38. > :00:41.Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:42. > :00:45.Brexit is still causing problems for ministers today,
:00:46. > :00:47.after Eurosceptic MPs warned Theresa May against keeping the UK
:00:48. > :00:52.But are junior members of the government overstepping
:00:53. > :01:00.Jeremy Corbyn is on the final leg of his tour of marginal
:01:01. > :01:02.constituencies, but how will Labour reconcile its own differences over
:01:03. > :01:09.One controversial German party is hoping for a breakthrough
:01:10. > :01:11.at elections there later this month, but why is Nigel Farage
:01:12. > :01:21.And the statues of men in Parliament Square in Westminster
:01:22. > :01:24.are to be joined by a woman for the first time,
:01:25. > :01:26.but is the campaigner Millicent Fawcett the right woman
:01:27. > :01:36.All that in the next hour, and with me for all of it two
:01:37. > :01:41.journalists in absolutely no danger of being immortalised outside
:01:42. > :01:43.Parliament, and I don't think I've got much chance either,
:01:44. > :01:45.it's the commentator Isabel Oakeshott and
:01:46. > :01:51.First today, let's talk about the devastating
:01:52. > :01:55.impact of hurricane Irma, which has been pummelling
:01:56. > :01:58.the British overseas territory of the Turks and Caicos Islands
:01:59. > :02:01.after leaving a trail of destruction across the Caribbean.
:02:02. > :02:04.After criticisms that the UK government did not respond quickly
:02:05. > :02:07.enough to the disaster, Theresa May will chair a meeting
:02:08. > :02:12.of the government's Cobra emergency committee this afternoon.
:02:13. > :02:14.Ministers have increased the relief fund for overseas
:02:15. > :02:16.territories including Anguilla, Montserrat and the British
:02:17. > :02:20.Virgin Islands from ?12 million to ?32 million.
:02:21. > :02:24.The first British military flight to join the relief effort will leave
:02:25. > :02:27.RAF Brize Norton later, carrying troops, rations and water.
:02:28. > :02:29.But some 500,000 people were told to leave south Florida
:02:30. > :02:44.OK. One of the things, Jack, things have been criticising is the UK
:02:45. > :02:49.responded too slowly, is that the case? It is difficult for them. You
:02:50. > :02:52.look at the scale of what is happening over there and it is hard
:02:53. > :02:55.for a government, it will always get criticised for the way it responds.
:02:56. > :03:00.It is important for the government to be seen to get on top of this,
:03:01. > :03:09.not just for the people there but from a political point of view. You
:03:10. > :03:13.look at George Bush and his slow response to hurricane Katrina, very
:03:14. > :03:20.damaging to him on political level. You talk about George Bush... Isabel
:03:21. > :03:25., this is a massive challenge for politicians, from George Bush to
:03:26. > :03:28.Donald Trump. It needs a very resourced Armed Forces from our end.
:03:29. > :03:34.It has become unfashionable in political terms to spend money on
:03:35. > :03:38.defence. We are now sending out HMS Ocean. It is due to be
:03:39. > :03:42.decommissioned due to the recalibration of the defence budget.
:03:43. > :03:45.I think people will be delighted to seek HMS Ocean going out. It will
:03:46. > :03:52.take a couple of weeks to get there. I think what this exposes is a
:03:53. > :03:55.shortage of presence in the region, which is a natural consequence of us
:03:56. > :03:59.diminishing the Armed Forces. We are now going to see our Armed Forces at
:04:00. > :04:04.our best -- their best and is a reminder to people as to why we need
:04:05. > :04:07.the Armed Forces. Furthermore, these are are overseas territories and one
:04:08. > :04:12.of the main duties of the government is to protect the safety of its
:04:13. > :04:15.people. So this really hammers home that when we are thinking about
:04:16. > :04:20.defence, we shouldn't just be thinking about the UK but the
:04:21. > :04:23.remaining overseas territories. That is a resource intensive things. We
:04:24. > :04:24.will hear from the Prime Minister later in the day.
:04:25. > :04:29.The question for today is why did Labour MP Ann Clwyd miss
:04:30. > :04:32.the first Commons vote of the Parliamentary session?
:04:33. > :04:35.Was it she missed the bus, her dog ate her parliamentary pass,
:04:36. > :04:42.she was stuck in a lift, or she thought in was still recess?
:04:43. > :04:44.At the end of the show, Isabel and Jack will give
:04:45. > :04:49.If they've been doing their homework.
:04:50. > :04:52.Now, the composition of the standing committees of the House
:04:53. > :04:57.of Commons may not sound like a subject to get the heart
:04:58. > :05:00.racing on a rainy Friday afternoon, but it's causing a bit of a stir
:05:01. > :05:04.today after Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn described what sounded
:05:05. > :05:06.like a fairly minor technical change as "an unprecedented attempt to rig
:05:07. > :05:11.Well, our political correspondent Chris Mason lives for this sort
:05:12. > :05:27.Chris, explained. Even for the most proud Daily Politics viewer
:05:28. > :05:32.clutching their Daily Politics mug watching you today, it you might
:05:33. > :05:34.think this is pretty nerdy. It is but it's about the committees, the
:05:35. > :05:39.most important committees at Westminster you have probably never
:05:40. > :05:42.heard. Committees made up of MPs that scrutinise the really small
:05:43. > :05:45.print of legislation, beyond the knock-about stuff we see in the
:05:46. > :05:49.House of Commons. What the government is proposing in a motion
:05:50. > :05:51.it has put down and there will be a vote on Tuesday, is they want to
:05:52. > :05:55.change the make-up of these committees to Minshull there is a
:05:56. > :05:58.majority of conservatives on them. The idea being from their
:05:59. > :06:02.perspective they can get legislation, and there is a
:06:03. > :06:06.truckload of it coming along with Brexit, through the Commons as
:06:07. > :06:09.quickly as possible. If you are an opposition MP you see this as a
:06:10. > :06:13.democratic outrage because they say that aggression has been that these
:06:14. > :06:18.committees are made up of a group of MPs that reflects the make-up of the
:06:19. > :06:21.house, and given the Conservatives don't have a majority in the
:06:22. > :06:25.Commons, the argument goes, why should they in these committees? The
:06:26. > :06:29.opposition see it as Theresa May trying to fiddle the election
:06:30. > :06:34.results? Yes, and playing fast and loose, as they see it, with the
:06:35. > :06:38.rules of Parliament. When you speak to real parliamentary historical
:06:39. > :06:43.nerds, like Chris Bryant, the Labour MP, who has written tomes on this
:06:44. > :06:47.stuff, started quoting bits of Erskine May. He sees this, and you
:06:48. > :06:52.might say he would as a Labour MP, he sees this as an unwarranted
:06:53. > :06:57.bending of the rules. Some are pointing to Presidents back in the
:06:58. > :07:04.1970s and Walter Harrison, a former whip for Labour when he appointed
:07:05. > :07:09.Tony Newton, and the Conservatives in 1990 when their majority slipped
:07:10. > :07:14.away between 92-97, Chris Bryant making the argument this goes beyond
:07:15. > :07:18.that. The Prime Minister's official spokesman in the last hour, their
:07:19. > :07:21.argument is that they have a majority in the Commons, which they
:07:22. > :07:25.do if you take account of the Democratic Unionists, and therefore
:07:26. > :07:29.it is right they do in these committees. My understanding is the
:07:30. > :07:34.DUP will vote with the Conservatives when this vote... Every Tory MP will
:07:35. > :07:37.vote with? That is the big question. I've been trying to get to the
:07:38. > :07:42.bottom of that this morning. I can't give you a definitive answer. When
:07:43. > :07:45.you look at the Tory MPs who are most like to make the hullabaloo
:07:46. > :07:50.about Parliamentary procedure, there is an overlap with those names on
:07:51. > :07:54.those who want to get Brexit legislation through quickly, so my
:07:55. > :07:58.hunch is they will back the government. It would be difficult
:07:59. > :08:00.from Parliament to get this sort of stuff through committees? That is
:08:01. > :08:04.completely right. Any government would try and do this. There is an
:08:05. > :08:08.argument to say they are trying to break the system. They don't have a
:08:09. > :08:12.majority, therefore you don't have a majority on the committees. The
:08:13. > :08:15.truth is, they would be able to get the legislation through. I suspect
:08:16. > :08:26.if the shoe was on the other foot and it was
:08:27. > :08:30.the Labour Party in power without majority, they would try to do the
:08:31. > :08:33.same thing. I think it's less trying to break the system rather than
:08:34. > :08:35.making the system work. I know there was some sort of horror in the early
:08:36. > :08:38.days after the general election result. Apart from the general
:08:39. > :08:40.overall horror, horror when the government realise this issue with
:08:41. > :08:42.the make-up of the committees. So it is something that has definitely
:08:43. > :08:46.been exercising them the reality is nothing will get done unless we come
:08:47. > :08:50.up with a workable system here. I think some people are just going to
:08:51. > :08:54.have to accept that perhaps the historical precedents are very
:08:55. > :08:58.pretty, but business needs to get on with it and I'm sure the opposition
:08:59. > :09:01.will be as keen on that as everyone else. It will be quite interesting
:09:02. > :09:03.next week. Thank you for bringing us up to date, Chris.
:09:04. > :09:05.Now, yesterday the EU Withdrawal Bill, which would convert
:09:06. > :09:08.all current EU law into UK law after Brexit, was introduced
:09:09. > :09:10.for its second reading in the House of Commons.
:09:11. > :09:12.We'll show you a bit of that debate later.
:09:13. > :09:15.But although the attention this week has been focused on life
:09:16. > :09:17.after we leave the EU, the battle to define how Brexit
:09:18. > :09:21.actually happens goes on inside the government and opposition.
:09:22. > :09:24.So, where exactly are the fault lines?
:09:25. > :09:28.Tories concerned about the consequences of withdrawal
:09:29. > :09:31.from the Single Market and Customs Union, that's people
:09:32. > :09:34.like Nicky Morgan and Anna Soubry, have criticised the Withdrawal Bill
:09:35. > :09:36.for giving ministers too much power over how to incorporate EU law.
:09:37. > :09:41.But Theresa May's facing pressure from another side too,
:09:42. > :09:46.the much-larger Eurosceptic group of Conservative MPs.
:09:47. > :09:49.Yesterday, a letter emerged in which dozens urged
:09:50. > :09:53.the Prime Minister not to stay in the EU "by stealth."
:09:54. > :10:01.The letter was circulated among a social media group containing two
:10:02. > :10:03.junior members of the Government, Brexit Minister Steve Baker
:10:04. > :10:07.Labour has agreed a three-line whip on its MPs to oppose the EU
:10:08. > :10:17.The party's Brexit Spokesman Keir Starmer says Labour wants to stay
:10:18. > :10:19.in the single market and customs union during
:10:20. > :10:22.a transition but it's divided on the nature of the final deal
:10:23. > :10:25.One group of Labour MPs, including former shadow ministers
:10:26. > :10:27.Heidi Alexander and Alison McGovern, is campaigning for permanent
:10:28. > :10:32.But Labour's 2017 manifesto said freedom of movement
:10:33. > :10:34.will end after Brexit, something John McDonnell has said
:10:35. > :10:41.There's expected to be lots of pressure at the party's
:10:42. > :10:43.conference from the Labour Campaign for Free Movement, backed by people
:10:44. > :10:50.Backing that campaign is the former union leader Billy Hayes,
:10:51. > :10:54.Also joining us is the businessman and founder
:10:55. > :11:05.Thank you both for being here. Billy, what do you want to do at
:11:06. > :11:10.conference, will you be setting a motion down on this issue? That is
:11:11. > :11:14.still being debated, as to what will be discussed. But very much we want
:11:15. > :11:18.to be in favour of the continuation of free movement of labour. The
:11:19. > :11:24.decision of Keir Starmer on the front trench is a good move in the
:11:25. > :11:29.right direction. The third part of that has got to be a continuation of
:11:30. > :11:32.free movement. Only until the transitional deal? Let's deal with
:11:33. > :11:37.where we are at the moment. We are yet to see the whole of the
:11:38. > :11:40.disastrous Brexit played out yet. At this stage, we are campaigning and
:11:41. > :11:44.there needs to be the continuation of free movement of labour. To be
:11:45. > :11:47.clear, you signed up to a campaign with a commitment of defending and
:11:48. > :11:51.extending the free movement of people in the context of the debate
:11:52. > :11:56.around Brexit. Do you ultimately want to make it easier for people to
:11:57. > :11:58.come here? I think the big thing is immigration and free movement has
:11:59. > :12:03.been a good thing for this country and is a good thing. The world's
:12:04. > :12:08.most successful economy is built on it, the Westgate, and immigration
:12:09. > :12:11.has been built on this -- in this country. That's what it's about, the
:12:12. > :12:16.continuation of free movement, which has been good for the UK and our
:12:17. > :12:20.economy. In 2016 people voted for Brexit. Do you not accept that
:12:21. > :12:26.limiting free movement was part of that vote? That was obviously apart,
:12:27. > :12:31.the question of immigration. There was a recent YouGov Poll but said
:12:32. > :12:37.people would accept free movement of labour if there was a deal on the
:12:38. > :12:41.single market. So yes, obviously immigration was a factor, but the
:12:42. > :12:45.fact of the matter is, free movement of labour in this country has been a
:12:46. > :12:49.good thing. John, they are basically saying is the best way to protect
:12:50. > :12:53.and advance the interests of all workers. What you to that? I'm not
:12:54. > :12:56.sure that's right. I think what's happened in this country is we have
:12:57. > :13:02.had a large amount of immigration from people from Eastern Europe with
:13:03. > :13:05.low income expectations and have come in and competed quite strongly
:13:06. > :13:09.at the lower end of the labour market and the bank of England
:13:10. > :13:13.produced a report showing this was depressing wages. Depressing wages
:13:14. > :13:19.very slightly and it was only one report that quoted quite heavily.
:13:20. > :13:23.The bank of England have made that smaller since then. I think there
:13:24. > :13:26.was controversy in doubt about the extent to which this has happened
:13:27. > :13:29.but it is hard to believe having large numbers of people coming in
:13:30. > :13:34.who are quite prepared to work for lower wages and people who have lots
:13:35. > :13:38.of aspirations and are prepared to work hard doesn't have some effect
:13:39. > :13:41.on the labour market. I think also because we have had such a big
:13:42. > :13:46.influx of people who are prepared to work for low wages, this is
:13:47. > :13:50.discouraging investment in the UK, productivity has been stuck in this
:13:51. > :13:54.country for nearly ten years now. I think there are downsides to having
:13:55. > :13:58.complete freedom of movement of labour. I think what the Labour
:13:59. > :14:02.Party really needs to do and the country needs to do is put some
:14:03. > :14:05.constraints on labour but have is free movement as they can have of
:14:06. > :14:10.people on high incomes and who have the skills that the economy needs.
:14:11. > :14:13.How do you respond to that, Billy? That there has been an impact on
:14:14. > :14:20.lower paid workers? You yourself just said is debatable. But what's
:14:21. > :14:24.interesting is the reaction to the Tory proposals. A friend of mine was
:14:25. > :14:28.trying to get through to the offices of the CBI yesterday in the
:14:29. > :14:32.switchboard was jammed with businesses saying that recent Tory
:14:33. > :14:38.proposal. The leaked proposals that suggest a pretty big crackdown? Yes.
:14:39. > :14:41.The CBI, the switchboard was jammed yesterday with people trying to get
:14:42. > :14:46.through to say what is this nonsense they are talking about, in terms of
:14:47. > :14:51.restriction of low skilled... The leaked to talk about? Is a
:14:52. > :14:55.businesses were talking about it, we didn't hear much from the Labour
:14:56. > :14:58.front trench. Even Diane Abbott, who has talked about the virtues of free
:14:59. > :15:04.movement, hardly had anything to say about it.
:15:05. > :15:09.The Labour campaign for free movement is about supporting those
:15:10. > :15:13.people in the party and wider society who think immigration has
:15:14. > :15:18.been good for this country and has helped in lots of areas. A woman and
:15:19. > :15:25.the other day talking about the impact and care homes of these -- if
:15:26. > :15:28.these restrictions come in. The CBI is against the government proposals.
:15:29. > :15:31.I know you can't speak for the Labour front bench but you know
:15:32. > :15:35.quite a lot of the figures on the front bench and do you know if any
:15:36. > :15:42.of them are supporting opposition? We have some MPs supporting, I can
:15:43. > :15:46.tell you that full list, but Clive Lewis is one of the supporters of
:15:47. > :15:51.the campaign. Without naming them, any other people? I know people on
:15:52. > :15:57.the front bench who are supporting it. This campaign is going to take
:15:58. > :16:00.off because people see we are going to be in the single market and if
:16:01. > :16:03.were going to be in the customs union, there needs to be free
:16:04. > :16:08.movement of labour as well. Labour went into the election saying free
:16:09. > :16:12.movement will end, John McDonnell has said it, Jeremy Corbyn has said
:16:13. > :16:16.it. I'm not speaking for the Labour front bench. I'm speaking for those
:16:17. > :16:19.people in the party... You think Labour should go against its
:16:20. > :16:27.manifesto? It wouldn't be the first time a party has gone against its
:16:28. > :16:30.manifesto. We need to stiffen the sinews of those mems of the party
:16:31. > :16:34.that believes the free movement of labour has been a good thing for the
:16:35. > :16:39.country. John this is challenging for Labour. Voters on both sides are
:16:40. > :16:45.very passionate. I think they are and there is a large majority who
:16:46. > :16:48.are in favour of a reasonable amount of immigration but not unrestricted
:16:49. > :16:52.immigration. If Billy's campaign is going to allow everyone in the EU,
:16:53. > :16:57.why don't we let everyone in from the whole of the world? There is
:16:58. > :17:03.some illogical inking here. What do you think about a post-brexit-mac
:17:04. > :17:06.system? I thought it was too restrictive and Draconian. What sort
:17:07. > :17:10.of system would you like to see? We would like to see some constraints
:17:11. > :17:16.of free movement of labour from Eastern Europe but a free system as
:17:17. > :17:19.we can devise for people who the economy needs for all sorts of
:17:20. > :17:23.purposes, and some of them are highly skilled, and some of them are
:17:24. > :17:31.fruit because. And where will this go in the Labour conference? It will
:17:32. > :17:34.be a bunfight. We've seen this in the Labour Party and Keir Starmer
:17:35. > :17:37.has manoeuvred the party into quite cleverly into a position without too
:17:38. > :17:42.much trouble. If you speak quietly and I'm sure you have done it to
:17:43. > :17:46.Labour MPs, particularly the ones from the north, where a lot of
:17:47. > :17:50.people voted Brexit, they are nervous about Labour's current
:17:51. > :17:52.position. They're worried voters will turn around and say you're
:17:53. > :17:57.trying to stop Brexit happening altogether. That said, Isabel
:17:58. > :18:02.Oakeshott, Jeremy Corbyn did say he'd and free movement. If asked if
:18:03. > :18:06.numbers would come down, he said maybe. They did well in the election
:18:07. > :18:12.without going too hard on immigration. The legal high the
:18:13. > :18:18.talks about it being possible to Renee on your manifesto. Recent
:18:19. > :18:20.history of parties that blithely ignore their commitments isn't
:18:21. > :18:25.pretty. Look what happened to the Lib Dems. The Tories have learnt a
:18:26. > :18:28.few things to their cost as well. I found it extraordinary you were not
:18:29. > :18:34.challenged McCain Brexit is a disaster. Where is your evidence for
:18:35. > :18:40.that? We haven't got Brexit yet. You repeatedly claimed people want free
:18:41. > :18:44.movement of people. The result of the Brexit referendum was clearly
:18:45. > :18:48.indicating people want an end of free movement of people and I find
:18:49. > :18:52.it very strange that you continue to press for this and I think your
:18:53. > :18:55.campaign is going nowhere. It wouldn't be the first time a
:18:56. > :19:01.journalist has told me a campaign in I'm involved in is going nowhere. It
:19:02. > :19:05.is a good point, isn't it? You make promises in an election and you can
:19:06. > :19:10.just break them. Also, how do you know Brexit is going to be a
:19:11. > :19:14.disaster? If you talk to the business community about the impact
:19:15. > :19:19.of the talks, we haven't even left the EU yet and the impact of the
:19:20. > :19:22.talks... If you talk to people in business and the CBI, they can see
:19:23. > :19:30.what is looming large in terms of it. If we are going to be in the
:19:31. > :19:34.single market, just what is being currently mentioned, and the customs
:19:35. > :19:38.union, as we seem to be moving towards... Where'd you get that
:19:39. > :19:42.from? We will not remain in the single market and Customs union.
:19:43. > :19:46.That is not the government position. That is the Labour position. It is
:19:47. > :19:52.but that is looking like it will happen. If you are in the single
:19:53. > :19:57.market, you must support the free movement of labour. I using Labour
:19:58. > :20:01.should keep that as a permanent position? I don't speak for the
:20:02. > :20:06.Labour Party, I'm speaking for this campaign and we are campaigning to
:20:07. > :20:13.make sure... You are running to be chairman of a important committee.
:20:14. > :20:19.So you do speak for the Labour Party. I haven't been elected yet so
:20:20. > :20:25.I can't take responsibility for a committee I haven't been elected to.
:20:26. > :20:32.All the people for Brexit, the fact of the matter is that free movement
:20:33. > :20:38.of labour in the European Union has been a good thing for this country.
:20:39. > :20:44.It is not a fact! It is not justified! How damaging could these
:20:45. > :20:47.differences before the Labour Party? It isn't good for the Labour Party
:20:48. > :20:51.to have these differences. It would be better if the Labour Party could
:20:52. > :20:54.coalesce around the policy and support the government and unite the
:20:55. > :20:58.country and these negotiations. It is difficult but that is what Labour
:20:59. > :21:01.should be doing rather than further dividing the country by some of
:21:02. > :21:03.these sorts of proposals we've heard. OK, we will keep an eye on
:21:04. > :21:04.all of it. Well, yesterday MPs began debating
:21:05. > :21:06.the EU Withdrawal Bill which will transfer existing EU law
:21:07. > :21:09.onto the UK statute book. The bill has been controversial
:21:10. > :21:11.because of the inclusion of so-called Henry VIII powers,
:21:12. > :21:14.which would give Ministers the freedom to make changes
:21:15. > :21:16.to the law without full Put simply, this bill
:21:17. > :21:30.is an essential step. Whilst it does not take us out
:21:31. > :21:33.of the European Union, that's a matter for the Article 50
:21:34. > :21:38.process, it does ensure on the day we leave,
:21:39. > :21:41.businesses know where they stand, workers' rights are upheld,
:21:42. > :21:44.and consumers remain protected. This bill is vital to ensuring
:21:45. > :21:47.that, as we leave, we do The Secretary of State,
:21:48. > :21:53.keen to betray this bill as a technical exercise,
:21:54. > :21:57.converting EU law into our law without raising any serious
:21:58. > :21:59.constitutional issues Nothing could be
:22:00. > :22:06.further from the truth. This bill invites us to surrender
:22:07. > :22:17.all power and influence over that question to the government
:22:18. > :22:20.and to ministers. That would betray everything
:22:21. > :22:23.that we were sent here to do. This is clearly a necessary
:22:24. > :22:26.piece of legislation. We start from the simple principle
:22:27. > :22:29.how necessary this is the idea that we have to get all of that
:22:30. > :22:32.European law and regulation transposed into UK law applicable
:22:33. > :22:39.and actionable in UK law, properly, so that it is properly
:22:40. > :22:43.justiciable at the end of the day. They said that this would be this
:22:44. > :22:45.great opportunity to get rid Miles of red tape, all these things
:22:46. > :22:50.that were strangling British These are the very same things
:22:51. > :22:55.we are going to take lock, stock and barrel and plays
:22:56. > :22:58.into substantive British law. The government claims the bill
:22:59. > :23:02.will restore sovereignty to Parliament and secure
:23:03. > :23:05.certainty post Brexit. It transfers huge powers
:23:06. > :23:10.to ministers, not to members of this house, over issues that are vital
:23:11. > :23:20.to peoples like maternity like maternity or paternity leave,
:23:21. > :23:22.holidays, environmental standards We have got to make sure,
:23:23. > :23:26.Madam Deputy Speaker, that on the day of exit,
:23:27. > :23:29.the statute book in And, frankly, the only
:23:30. > :23:32.way that we can achieve it in the timescale
:23:33. > :23:34.with which we are constrained and which is set out in Article 50
:23:35. > :23:38.is to have a flexible, pragmatic system, such as the system
:23:39. > :23:45.that is laid out in the draft Bill. If the government isn't
:23:46. > :23:49.going to move in the next two days of debate, well,
:23:50. > :23:52.I think we may have to force it to go back to the drawing
:23:53. > :23:59.board and try again. This is a vital bill and we cannot
:24:00. > :24:08.leave without this bill on the statute book. I would be no position
:24:09. > :24:12.to support it a third reading in its current form. It is in many respects
:24:13. > :24:15.an astonishing monstrosity of a bill.
:24:16. > :24:17.Well, a little earlier I spoke to the Tory
:24:18. > :24:21.I began by asking him whether he understood why
:24:22. > :24:24.some of his Conservative colleagues were so uncomfortable with handing
:24:25. > :24:29.these so-called Henry VIII statutory powers to Whitehall.
:24:30. > :24:31.We've had Henry VIII powers in our legislation for many,
:24:32. > :24:34.many years, and, indeed, in the European Communities Act,
:24:35. > :24:38.back in the early 70s, has the biggest Henry VIII
:24:39. > :24:41.European law is simply brought straight into our
:24:42. > :24:45.legislation without any Parliamentary scrutiny whatsoever.
:24:46. > :24:48.With this bill, we actually get Parliamentary scrutiny
:24:49. > :24:53.on transcribing European law into our own domestic legislation.
:24:54. > :24:56.So just to be clear, Dominic Grieve is wrong when he calls it
:24:57. > :25:00.I think Dominic has obviously got concerns about that.
:25:01. > :25:03.I respect those concerns, but my biggest concern is how
:25:04. > :25:08.we make sure that we get on with the task of Brexit.
:25:09. > :25:11.My constituents raise with me the issues about money,
:25:12. > :25:13.the issues about making sure there are no queues at Dover,
:25:14. > :25:16.they don't raise with me the issues about Parliamentary scrutiny.
:25:17. > :25:18.They want to make sure that we're focused on making sure
:25:19. > :25:20.we have an effective Brexit that works for Britain.
:25:21. > :25:23.We have a Parliamentary mathematics at the moment,
:25:24. > :25:25.which is going to make things quite difficult for you.
:25:26. > :25:28.We know that the Labour Party is really worried about these
:25:29. > :25:30.powers, which are essentially allowing the government
:25:31. > :25:33.to change regulations without Parliamentary scrutiny.
:25:34. > :25:36.Do you think the government is going to have to concede
:25:37. > :25:39.There is Parliamentary scrutiny, because each of these regulations,
:25:40. > :25:42.about 1,000 regulations in all, can be called in and voted
:25:43. > :25:47.In fact, if Parliament voted on each regulation and debated each
:25:48. > :25:51.regulation it would be doing nothing between now and Brexit day.
:25:52. > :25:53.So, yes, we need scrutiny where it's appropriate,
:25:54. > :25:56.but we also need to get on with the task at hand,
:25:57. > :25:59.to make sure we transcribe European law into our domestic legislation,
:26:00. > :26:01.and then we can then move on with the many
:26:02. > :26:05.In which case, do you think the colleagues who vote
:26:06. > :26:07.against certain aspects of the bill are essentially voting
:26:08. > :26:12.I think the really important thing is that we have this bill,
:26:13. > :26:15.it's a processed bill, we've put in place the machinery
:26:16. > :26:20.to bring European law into British law, we've passed these regulations.
:26:21. > :26:22.Do that transcription process, and then, over time, clearly,
:26:23. > :26:25.as we've taken back control of our legal system,
:26:26. > :26:28.we can look at the detail of the laws and see what works
:26:29. > :26:31.A number of your colleagues have signed this letter
:26:32. > :26:34.that was going to be published in a Sunday newspaper
:26:35. > :26:37.to Theresa May, essentially saying do not allow a transitional period
:26:38. > :26:44.Will you be adding your name to that letter?
:26:45. > :26:46.This is not a letter that was right for me,
:26:47. > :26:49.I thought it was too prescriptive, but it was very much not aimed
:26:50. > :26:51.at our government but aimed at the Labour Party,
:26:52. > :26:53.who have changed their position since the general election.
:26:54. > :26:56.They had an election manifesto that said they would end
:26:57. > :26:57.uncontrolled immigration, leave the single market,
:26:58. > :27:00.they said they would take back control of trade policy,
:27:01. > :27:03.leave the customs union, and they've performed a massive u-turn,
:27:04. > :27:06.talking about a transitional period without end.
:27:07. > :27:09.A bit like Hotel California, you can check out any time you like,
:27:10. > :27:12.So you're saying this isn't aimed at Theresa May?
:27:13. > :27:15.The government have been really clear.
:27:16. > :27:17.They've said look, we're leaving the single market...
:27:18. > :27:20.The Labour Party isn't making the policy?
:27:21. > :27:22.We're leaving the single market, we're leaving the customs union,
:27:23. > :27:25.we're going to finish up the implementation period by the
:27:26. > :27:29.Labour has done a u-turn and this letter is about highlighting how
:27:30. > :27:32.Labour are backsliding and are having this transition
:27:33. > :27:38.And you're part of this group - the European Research Group -
:27:39. > :27:41.which is Tory backbenchers, essentially, pushing to make sure
:27:42. > :27:46.It is chaired by your colleague Suella Fernandes and she,
:27:47. > :27:51.it appears, has circulated this letter among colleagues.
:27:52. > :27:54.Some people are saying that as such, she should lose her position
:27:55. > :28:02.The European Research Group is what it says on the tin,
:28:03. > :28:05.it's a group that looks at and researches into all the laws
:28:06. > :28:07.which are going through Parliament at the moment on Brexit.
:28:08. > :28:10.It includes people who backed Leave, it includes people like me
:28:11. > :28:13.who backed Remain, all of us are united by taking a real interest
:28:14. > :28:16.in making sure we have a Brexit that works for Britain.
:28:17. > :28:18.But you are very much pushing for Brexit to take place,
:28:19. > :28:20.and this letter, some might say, is essentially lobbying
:28:21. > :28:24.It's not that we're pushing for Brexit to take place,
:28:25. > :28:27.we're pushing to make sure the referendum is respected,
:28:28. > :28:29.the instruction of the British people to leave the European Union
:28:30. > :28:32.is respected, that we take back control of our borders,
:28:33. > :28:35.end uncontrolled EU immigration and make sure that we have a trade
:28:36. > :28:38.policy which is made in London and Britain and not in Brussels.
:28:39. > :28:41.But some of your colleagues have been pretty angry about this letter.
:28:42. > :28:46.Steven Hammond said that rebel MPs should sign and resign.
:28:47. > :28:48.That might include Suella but also, although he hasn't signed
:28:49. > :28:51.it, there is some talk about Steve Baker, who used
:28:52. > :28:54.to run your group and now is a Brexit Minister and appears
:28:55. > :29:02.to have added his name to a Whatsapp group perhaps around it.
:29:03. > :29:04.Nicky Morgan, meanwhile, says it's not fair for ministers
:29:05. > :29:06.to be heavily involved in backbench affairs when they are involved
:29:07. > :29:09.Do you disagree with Steven Hammond and Nicky Morgan?
:29:10. > :29:11.I think they've misunderstood, they've misunderstood
:29:12. > :29:15.It's not aimed at the government, it's aimed at the Labour Party,
:29:16. > :29:18.who are hopelessly split on the whole issue of Brexit.
:29:19. > :29:20.You've got Jeremy Corbyn who seems to want to leave,
:29:21. > :29:23.you've got the Labour MPs who seem to want to defy the referendum
:29:24. > :29:25.and remain in Europe, and what we're highlighting
:29:26. > :29:31.is a transition period without end is not leaving the European Union.
:29:32. > :29:33.You say it's for the Labour Party, but is it addressed
:29:34. > :29:36.It's addressed to set out what should happen
:29:37. > :29:39.and that there should be a transitional period with an end,
:29:40. > :29:47.I'm not sentry of this letter, I don't know what the purpose
:29:48. > :29:51.of this letter is, but I've read the text and the text is very
:29:52. > :29:53.clearly that there should be a transition period with an end,
:29:54. > :29:56.and that is the current government policy, and the Labour Party have
:29:57. > :30:00.They've done a u-turn and the concern is that they want us
:30:01. > :30:02.to remain in the European Union by stealth.
:30:03. > :30:06.So you're certain it's not to Theresa May, it's not in any way
:30:07. > :30:11.I think the government have a really clear position.
:30:12. > :30:14.I think the most important thing is not letters, not process,
:30:15. > :30:17.it is making sure we have a Brexit that works for Britain,
:30:18. > :30:19.supporting the government in their negotiations with Brussels,
:30:20. > :30:22.and the real question is how do we make sure that Brussels gets
:30:23. > :30:24.on the negotiations, so we can give more certainty
:30:25. > :30:26.to the businesses and people of this country in what Brexit
:30:27. > :30:30.And you are very comfortable with Suella both leading your ERG
:30:31. > :30:35.Suella is an outstanding ministery aide.
:30:36. > :30:38.She works really hard, does a great job in the Treasury.
:30:39. > :30:40.Steve Baker has made a flying start as a minister.
:30:41. > :30:47.They are both excellent people, and they deserve to be supported.
:30:48. > :30:54.Conservative MP Charlie Elphicke talking to me earlier.
:30:55. > :31:03.Was this letter designed to lobby government? I think what the letter
:31:04. > :31:09.shows is a scale of concern within the Tory Parliamentary party, about
:31:10. > :31:12.the possibility of a rather elongated transition period. There
:31:13. > :31:16.were differing views within the cabinet about how long the
:31:17. > :31:20.transition period should last. I think there is an acceptance on the
:31:21. > :31:24.part of even the most strident Brexit ministers that there has to
:31:25. > :31:30.be a transition period and that that will be probably around two years
:31:31. > :31:34.and it must have a. . As Charlie Elphicke said, the grave concern is
:31:35. > :31:39.about Labour's position on the idea they want to continue the so-called
:31:40. > :31:43.transitionary period until everything is worked out. That is a
:31:44. > :31:48.how long is a piece of string situation. In fairness, you can't
:31:49. > :31:50.blame Labour and people like Keir Starmer for wanting to extend it as
:31:51. > :31:55.long as possible because they don't believe we should leave anyway.
:31:56. > :31:58.There is this European research group, doing a bit of research on
:31:59. > :32:12.Brexit and it is all government policy. Led by Suella Fernandez. She
:32:13. > :32:20.is definitely sailing close to the wind. It is... Steve Baker resigned
:32:21. > :32:24.from the group. Exactly. The one thing Charlie Elphicke said which I
:32:25. > :32:27.thought was a little disingenuous, he said this group is just what is,
:32:28. > :32:31.a European research group. They've come up with the most boring
:32:32. > :32:40.sounding name for their caucus they possibly can, to make it sound as an
:32:41. > :32:44.interesting and as they can... Is it sinister? If that is your
:32:45. > :32:48.deformation of sinister, a lot of things will spook you out! Theresa
:32:49. > :32:55.May is dealing with real big competing factions in her party. And
:32:56. > :32:59.what's interesting about it as well, this messaging service Whatsapp has
:33:00. > :33:01.had a big impact in Parliament. It's allowing MPs to organise quickly and
:33:02. > :33:05.effectively and I'm sure the other side are doing it as well, we just
:33:06. > :33:08.don't know the name of their Whatsapp group yet. It is allowing
:33:09. > :33:13.them to be very disciplined, they can talk to each other all through
:33:14. > :33:16.the day, people are just coming out and saying things... Or ill
:33:17. > :33:21.disciplined at making trouble. I think it is worth pointing out the
:33:22. > :33:26.ministerial aide concerned, Suella, not a senior figure in the
:33:27. > :33:29.government. It is the bottom rung of the ladder as it were. I don't think
:33:30. > :33:33.this is an excessively disloyal manoeuvre. We are in a very heated
:33:34. > :33:40.period for Brexit debate on this is just a bunch of MPs who want to make
:33:41. > :33:43.sure that the government stands firm. What I could think no question
:33:44. > :33:49.she should lose her job over this? In my view no, but it is not up to
:33:50. > :33:52.me. I think it's unlikely, but partly for Theresa May is not in a
:33:53. > :33:58.strong position to do anything that might upset such a big number... Is
:33:59. > :34:01.one of her problems, because she has no majority, both sides of this
:34:02. > :34:06.debate are essentially holding her prisoner to some extent? That is
:34:07. > :34:09.exactly right. Yesterday she had two different rebellions from different
:34:10. > :34:13.parts of the party on the same day in the Commons. Dominic Grieve
:34:14. > :34:17.attacking her bill to get Brexit through and on the same day, putting
:34:18. > :34:22.together this lobbying letter about how hard Brexit is. She's in an
:34:23. > :34:26.impossible position and there is nothing she can do because she has
:34:27. > :34:31.no Commons majority. The people like Dominic Reid who are laying into the
:34:32. > :34:35.EU Withdrawal Bill, are they trying to scupper Brexit? I wouldn't go
:34:36. > :34:37.that far. I have the greatest respect for Dominic Grieve. He
:34:38. > :34:42.argued very powerful yesterday made the point the bill itself is
:34:43. > :34:48.essential. I think there is a bit of using this as a proxy for just a
:34:49. > :34:54.fundamental anti-Brexit position. I read, the editor of the Evening
:34:55. > :34:57.Standard George Osborne's column on this, the editorial fostered by
:34:58. > :35:02.expected to disagree with every word but found myself rather attracted to
:35:03. > :35:05.his rhetoric, to talk about the importance of Parliament and
:35:06. > :35:09.democracy, it sounds brilliant, but remember, a lot of these powers are
:35:10. > :35:11.ones we blithely nodded away to Brussels and we are doing is
:35:12. > :35:18.bringing them back here. I didn't hear all these people making cry
:35:19. > :35:21.when we transferred these from our jurisdiction to Brussels. Lots more
:35:22. > :35:22.on that next week. Now, earlier this year
:35:23. > :35:24.the prime minister announced there was to be a new statue
:35:25. > :35:27.in Parliament Square, just over And, for the first time,
:35:28. > :35:31.it will honour a woman. Here's Elizabeth Glinka
:35:32. > :35:42.with the story. There are currently nine statues
:35:43. > :35:45.here in Parliament Square Not their politics or
:35:46. > :35:52.even their nationality, We have waited too long
:35:53. > :35:56.for political justice. The voice of Emmeline Pankhurst,
:35:57. > :36:05.but it's not the famous suffragette who's set to become the first statue
:36:06. > :36:08.of a woman in Parliament Square. That honour will go
:36:09. > :36:14.to her contemporary, the tireless but rather more
:36:15. > :36:16.moderate feminist campaigner Millicent Garrett Fawcett,
:36:17. > :36:18.who was president of the National Union of
:36:19. > :36:20.Women Suffrage Societies And this is where she'll stand,
:36:21. > :36:25.nestled between Disraeli She's often known as a suffragist
:36:26. > :36:32.and a constitutional campaign because she never got involved
:36:33. > :36:34.with militancy and didn't But what's interesting about this
:36:35. > :36:37.statue and the design that Gillian Wearing has done,
:36:38. > :36:40.is that the plinth will feature 52 other suffrage campaigners,
:36:41. > :36:45.both militant and constitutional, who all campaigned
:36:46. > :36:47.for votes for women. There are those, aren't there,
:36:48. > :36:50.that say that she was a kind of drawing-room activist,
:36:51. > :36:52.and that maybe we should have someone who was a bit more thrusting
:36:53. > :36:55.as the first woman in Parliament She was just absolutely fantastic
:36:56. > :37:03.and there is no way she sat at home She spoke regularly,
:37:04. > :37:06.she campaigned behind-the-scenes, So, no, I don't think she was
:37:07. > :37:11.a hidden or passive figure at all. The statue is due to be unveiled
:37:12. > :37:15.next year but which other great ladies might lay claim
:37:16. > :37:19.to Dame Fawcett's spot? Another strong candidate would be
:37:20. > :37:21.Mary Wollstonecraft, who was a feminist thinker,
:37:22. > :37:23.and she wrote if indication Now, there is a campaign
:37:24. > :37:31.for a statue of her already, called Mary On The Green,
:37:32. > :37:34.and that's to be in North London. But she was so influential
:37:35. > :37:36.as a feminist thinker, and she also campaigned for women
:37:37. > :37:38.to be equally represented in Parliament, so she's somebody
:37:39. > :37:41.who has had a real influence on feminist and equality thinking
:37:42. > :37:46.over the course of two centuries. Or how about the formidable
:37:47. > :37:49.Nancy Astor, the first woman to sit But I like fighting,
:37:50. > :38:01.but I like fighting for justice. Then, of course, there
:38:02. > :38:03.is the Manchester last Emmeline Pankhurst, who famously
:38:04. > :38:06.advocated deeds not words, and was imprisoned
:38:07. > :38:12.for her militant tactics. And speaking of Emmeline,
:38:13. > :38:15.here she is in Victoria Gardens, just around the corner
:38:16. > :38:18.from Parliament Square. Now, for many people,
:38:19. > :38:22.she is the leading figure of the women's suffrage movement,
:38:23. > :38:24.so they might be asking why And joining me now to discuss this
:38:25. > :38:40.is Sam Smethers, Chief Executive of the Fawcett Society
:38:41. > :38:42.and June Purvis, Professor of Women's and Gender History
:38:43. > :38:56.at the University of Portsmouth. Now, Sam, we have heard of the
:38:57. > :39:00.Fawcett Society but Millicent Fawcett not exactly a household name
:39:01. > :39:03.like Emmeline Pankhurst, a bit more of a gradualist, non-violent
:39:04. > :39:12.campaign. Why is she the right choice? Because she made her life's
:39:13. > :39:21.work. She spent 62 years working for it. She was there to do the
:39:22. > :39:26.groundwork, the hard graft of lobbying and holding meetings all
:39:27. > :39:29.over the country, mobilising people to demonstrations and marches, she
:39:30. > :39:33.did that for many years before the suffragettes emerged onto the scene
:39:34. > :39:36.to take the camp forward -- campaign forward. She was there to pick up
:39:37. > :39:44.the pieces once the war had started... She supported their bid
:39:45. > :39:48.the beginning, fund raised for them, but once she felt their activity was
:39:49. > :39:54.counter-productive, she distanced herself from them. She sealed the
:39:55. > :39:58.deal, negotiated votes for women with Lloyd George. It was her? It
:39:59. > :40:05.was her that led the delegation to do that and in 1928 she was there.
:40:06. > :40:11.June, at the right woman? No, I don't think so. I'm in favour of
:40:12. > :40:13.having two stat to use, one of Millicent Fawcett on one of Emmeline
:40:14. > :40:21.Pankhurst and they should be in canning green. Why canning green?
:40:22. > :40:27.That is the campaign Nigel Thorne has been mounting, to have it there.
:40:28. > :40:31.I think churlishly and in a mean spirit the Fawcett supporters have
:40:32. > :40:38.said no, it has got to be this stat you in Parliament Square. Tell me
:40:39. > :40:42.why Fawcett is on the right person? Because it is Emmeline Pankhurst,
:40:43. > :40:50.her name that is associated with the votes for women campaign. Fairly so
:40:51. > :40:53.why not? Fairly so. Her and her supporters campaigned and gave their
:40:54. > :41:00.all to win the vote, right up to 1914. Emmeline herself was
:41:01. > :41:09.imprisoned 13 times. She went on hunger strike but was never forcibly
:41:10. > :41:13.fed. And from 1913, she also went on first strike as well as sleep
:41:14. > :41:20.strike. She has got a statue around the corner. Yes, but that was raised
:41:21. > :41:28.by private subscriptions, by all her admirers, it wasn't by public
:41:29. > :41:31.subscription. This stat is being supported by a Conservative
:41:32. > :41:36.government and paid out of public funds. Emmeline has never had
:41:37. > :41:43.recognition, publicly, by public funds for her contribution to
:41:44. > :41:46.democracy. That is a point, Emmeline Pankhurst was in prison and had to
:41:47. > :41:51.be. Because she was on hunger strike. Emily Davidson killed for
:41:52. > :41:59.the cause. Some might say that Fawcett is a somewhat boring choice.
:42:00. > :42:05.What she is is a leader. Is tempered but not a leader? She is. I think
:42:06. > :42:09.temperament should be commemorated as well, I'm not arguing against
:42:10. > :42:12.commemorating the women and I don't want us to pit one woman against
:42:13. > :42:18.another when there are so few. I support Mary Wollstonecraft. I
:42:19. > :42:24.really think it is time for another look, but let's not argue against
:42:25. > :42:32.Millicent Fawcett, but get behind it because it has been too long. Why
:42:33. > :42:36.are divisions? I think what you're doing in supporting Millicent and
:42:37. > :42:39.the Conservative government in supporting that statue is writing
:42:40. > :42:47.out of history the radical women who brought about change, and Emmeline
:42:48. > :42:52.was radical. Parliament represents non-violent democracy, it represents
:42:53. > :42:55.what Millicent Fawcett stood for. Yes, that is properly wider
:42:56. > :43:01.Conservative government in particular, and some other people
:43:02. > :43:04.are supporting that. But it is radical women, people like Emmeline
:43:05. > :43:07.Pankhurst and Emily Davidson who gave their lives for the cause and
:43:08. > :43:13.Millicent Fawcett would not attend her funeral. I think that is a very
:43:14. > :43:17.bad black mark against her. Can I just clarify one thing? We have
:43:18. > :43:23.support of the Mayor of London also and he is not a Conservative. It has
:43:24. > :43:25.cross-party support. Is it an establishment choice? I think
:43:26. > :43:29.fundamentally if you look at history and what her role was from beginning
:43:30. > :43:34.to end, she merits being there and commemorated in that way. The plinth
:43:35. > :43:37.design is intended to commemorate the suffragettes and suffragists who
:43:38. > :43:41.contributed to this campaign over the years. That's why there are 52
:43:42. > :43:48.other names and faces on the plinth. Do have a preference? Not really.
:43:49. > :43:52.What brought on to me was just how few female statues we actually have.
:43:53. > :43:58.We are looking now at a very historic figure, whose has lasted
:43:59. > :44:02.eternally as it were. I wonder whether in 50 years' time we may
:44:03. > :44:07.have a lot more female statues, because... Would you have? I knew
:44:08. > :44:13.you would ask that and I don't know the answer. Margaret Thatcher? We'll
:44:14. > :44:16.know Margaret Thatcher statues are extremely controversial. I would
:44:17. > :44:21.love to see a statue of her but she is recognised in other places. I
:44:22. > :44:26.think the real point is you walk down Whitehall and there will the
:44:27. > :44:31.start use of dusty old men comment mostly military figures who fought
:44:32. > :44:35.dubious war is 150 years ago are not sure we can be proud of it... You
:44:36. > :44:39.get to the end there is no women at all. We are scrabbling over should
:44:40. > :44:42.this important historical woman that one be honoured? They should both be
:44:43. > :44:46.honoured and is ridiculous. What we really need is a full review of all
:44:47. > :44:51.the statues around Westminster and Whitehall and they why are are half
:44:52. > :44:57.these people here? Knock some of them down? Yes, I genuinely think
:44:58. > :44:58.that. That is another issue and very controversial for another day. Thank
:44:59. > :45:03.you all for talking about. The former UKIP leader
:45:04. > :45:05.Nigel Farage is in Berlin today, speaking at a campaign event
:45:06. > :45:07.for the Alternative Elections in Germany
:45:08. > :45:10.are just a few weeks away, with Angela Merkel expected
:45:11. > :45:14.to continue as chancellor But the Alternative
:45:15. > :45:18.for Germany, or AfD as it's known, is predicted to win about 50 seats,
:45:19. > :45:21.although it has slipped Launched four years ago,
:45:22. > :45:25.the Eurosceptic party's policies include a call to declare Islam
:45:26. > :45:28.incompatible with German culture, and a plan to strip immigrants
:45:29. > :45:33.convicted of serious crimes So, what is Nigel
:45:34. > :45:36.Farage doing there? Well, he can tell us,
:45:37. > :45:47.he joins us now from Berlin. Wellcome, Nigel. What are you doing
:45:48. > :45:54.getting involved in another foreign election? Well I've been invited
:45:55. > :45:59.here by one of the candidates for the AfG, and someone who sits with
:46:00. > :46:03.me in the European group and I've known her for a long time and I
:46:04. > :46:08.think she's a good person and I'm happy to accept that invitation. I
:46:09. > :46:13.have no formal relationship of any kind with the AfG, they are part of
:46:14. > :46:19.it different political family in Europe but here we've got a massive
:46:20. > :46:23.election campaign going on, a debate last Sunday watched by 20 million
:46:24. > :46:28.Germans, and yet so far in this campaign nobody is talking about
:46:29. > :46:32.Brexit, and they should be. Why? Because the Germans sell us ?30
:46:33. > :46:37.billion worth of goods every year, more than we sell them and it is in
:46:38. > :46:40.the interest of German companies and German workers for a sensible trade
:46:41. > :46:45.deal to be struck with the United Kingdom and I want the argument to
:46:46. > :46:49.be made here that, actually, the one group of people that are holding
:46:50. > :46:52.this back and potentially damaging German jobs and their economy are
:46:53. > :46:58.the European Commission themselves. So far, we haven't had that debate.
:46:59. > :47:02.OK but the AfD was supposed to ride a European wave of Eurosceptic
:47:03. > :47:10.parties excess but it is just not happening, is it? Oh, yes! What is
:47:11. > :47:15.going to happen, whether or not you like the AfD, is we are going to see
:47:16. > :47:20.on September 25 the first time in modern Germany a party that has been
:47:21. > :47:25.deeply critical of many aspects of the European Union getting 10% plus
:47:26. > :47:30.of the vote and this is happening in Europe's biggest country. It is
:47:31. > :47:33.quite a significant moment. Brexit was all about the UK. Are you on a
:47:34. > :47:40.personal mission to destroy the whole of the EU? I don't believe in
:47:41. > :47:44.the European Union. I think Europe is a wonderful diverse continent of
:47:45. > :47:47.different peoples and countries, different nationalities, languages,
:47:48. > :47:51.cheeses, you name it, and the idea to bring us all together to be run
:47:52. > :47:58.by a bunch of unelected men in Brussels it is not desirable and the
:47:59. > :48:01.isn't working. I believe in nations that trade together and cooperate
:48:02. > :48:07.together. All sorts of things like cross-border crime and pollution,
:48:08. > :48:11.read work as neighbours but not to give away our democratic rights to
:48:12. > :48:14.Brussels. What you are seeing through these negotiations are the
:48:15. > :48:17.European Union, Brussels, putting their own interests above that of
:48:18. > :48:22.the peoples of Europe. There was a time when you wouldn't be associated
:48:23. > :48:28.with the front National and then you back to Marine Le Pen for French
:48:29. > :48:39.President. Are you now endorsing every populist European party? No,
:48:40. > :48:43.no, Mac, I backed another candidate for the French President in the
:48:44. > :48:46.first round. Had I been a French writer, would I have voted for
:48:47. > :48:50.Eurosceptic will not? That as of this. I want to repeat the point
:48:51. > :48:56.that I'm here as a result of a personal invitation I've no link
:48:57. > :49:01.with this party but it is significant they will be getting 10%
:49:02. > :49:07.of the votes on. You get a link by being fair and AfD is a party that
:49:08. > :49:11.has views beyond the fringe. For example, they've previously
:49:12. > :49:14.suggested German border guards should use weapons against illegal
:49:15. > :49:19.female refugees. You don't want to be associated with that, do you? No,
:49:20. > :49:23.I'm not head to get involved in the internal debate in German politics
:49:24. > :49:30.at all other than to say there is a glaring omission and it is quite
:49:31. > :49:34.wilful that the leading contestants do not wish to discuss Brexit at but
:49:35. > :49:37.they should be because it is in the interests of German people to do so
:49:38. > :49:42.and I'm here today and I will be in Prague next Friday and I will go
:49:43. > :49:48.around Europe making this argument and getting it hurt. And I wish that
:49:49. > :49:50.the British government, I wish the British Chambers of Commerce and
:49:51. > :49:55.other organisations were out around Europe doing it, too, because the
:49:56. > :49:59.best way to get the best trade deal for all of us in all of our
:50:00. > :50:03.interests is for Brussels to be bypassed, it is a Brussels to be
:50:04. > :50:08.told by national leaders you are doing the wrong thing. While you do
:50:09. > :50:14.that, there is an identity crisis for your own party back in the UK.
:50:15. > :50:18.Well, yes. They are having a leadership election and some might
:50:19. > :50:23.say another leadership election. And we are going to have the results in
:50:24. > :50:29.a couple of weeks' time. Like all parties, there are different wings.
:50:30. > :50:33.I am not taking sides. I think for ex-leaders to attempt to be
:50:34. > :50:39.back-seat drivers is a bad idea but I would argue that Ukip really
:50:40. > :50:44.always was from the very beginning a party that did believe in liberty,
:50:45. > :50:48.freedom, and tolerance. I am as worried as the next person about the
:50:49. > :50:52.rise of extremist radical as to Islam, about the weakness of our
:50:53. > :50:57.politicians to deal with this. But I've never wanted us to be against
:50:58. > :51:01.the religion and if Ukip was to go in that direction, that would be a
:51:02. > :51:06.disaster for that. So if Anne-Marie Waters was elected leader, would it
:51:07. > :51:10.be a death blow for the party? We will have to see what happens. I am
:51:11. > :51:16.not going to commit myself. I don't want to be seen to be getting too
:51:17. > :51:22.heavily involved in this. What is said at the hustings over the next
:51:23. > :51:26.couple of weeks and whoever the next leader is, it is crucial. If we go
:51:27. > :51:31.into the position where Ukip was fighting a religious war, I think
:51:32. > :51:37.that probably would be the end of it. Fantastic. Michael, thank you so
:51:38. > :51:41.much for joining us from Berlin. What you make of what Nigel Farage
:51:42. > :51:46.is doing fair Chris Hill it is sad. It hasn't happened this idea of this
:51:47. > :51:50.huge populist wave happening across Europe. I was in Austria last
:51:51. > :51:55.December for the presidential election, the closest run thing
:51:56. > :51:57.we've seen to a very populist right-wing politician being elected
:51:58. > :52:02.but it didn't happen. It didn't happen in Holland and it won't
:52:03. > :52:06.happen in Germany. It didn't happen in France, either. I am not quite
:52:07. > :52:11.sure why Nigel Farage, who has announced he got his life back after
:52:12. > :52:13.the referendum, is out campaigning for this fringe right-wing party
:52:14. > :52:18.that isn't going to have a big impact on the election. Angela
:52:19. > :52:22.Merkel is going to win by a landslide, everyone knows it. Is he
:52:23. > :52:26.trying to destroy the EU? You've misunderstood why he's there. He's
:52:27. > :52:31.not there to campaign for the party. He is there to hammer home the
:52:32. > :52:37.message that it is in the interests of German business that we get a
:52:38. > :52:41.good deal... That they and the EU strikes a favourable deal from their
:52:42. > :52:45.point of view. Whatever he says, ultimately, the individual countries
:52:46. > :52:52.are not going to negotiate with us. We know who was calling the shots
:52:53. > :52:56.here. Is AfD calling the shots? Obviously not, they are not going to
:52:57. > :53:00.be calling the shots but I don't think Nigel Farage has anything to
:53:01. > :53:04.defend by being there. He is there making the point in Britain's
:53:05. > :53:10.interest. He is making it on a platform next to the leader of the
:53:11. > :53:12.AfD! He isn't making a speech at the Chambers of Commerce. He certainly
:53:13. > :53:14.not making any intervention in the Ukip leadership right now.
:53:15. > :53:17.There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.
:53:18. > :53:20.The question was why did Labour MP Ann Clwyd miss the first vote
:53:21. > :53:25.Was it she missed the bus, her dog ate her parliament pass,
:53:26. > :53:27.she was stuck in a lift, or she thought in was still recess?
:53:28. > :53:32.So, Isabel and Jack what's the correct answer?
:53:33. > :53:38.I don't know. I was hoping there was an option of she had a headache
:53:39. > :53:42.because, as we know, Labour frontbenchers have a particular
:53:43. > :53:45.habit of missing crucial votes when they have a sore head. Sadly for me
:53:46. > :53:49.I'd do know this because in my new job I have to stay up all night
:53:50. > :53:55.reading all the newspapers. Which is why you are bleary eyed. So, go on,
:53:56. > :53:57.then, give us the answer. I couldn't tell you when went, she was stuck on
:53:58. > :53:57.the left. Mr Speaker, although I was present
:53:58. > :54:02.to vote in the first vote last I was locked not in
:54:03. > :54:09.the lavatory but in the lift. If it were not for one
:54:10. > :54:12.of the researchers of the party opposite, I suspect I would still be
:54:13. > :54:18.in the lift. Now, Westminster is back
:54:19. > :54:23.from its summer holidays and it's been a busy week,
:54:24. > :54:26.here's Chris Mason with our round up of everything that's been
:54:27. > :54:32.happening in just 60 seconds. MPs returned to debate
:54:33. > :54:35.the EU Withdrawal Bill which seeks to ensure legal
:54:36. > :54:39.continuity after Brexit. But opponents accuse ministers
:54:40. > :54:43.of acting like Henry VIII in trying A leaked government document
:54:44. > :54:49.revealed our immigration system Draft plans include ending free
:54:50. > :54:54.movement, and restricting low Strikes were on the menu at PMQs
:54:55. > :55:02.as Jeremy Corbyn raised working It's the first time UK staff under
:55:03. > :55:11.the golden arches walked out. Nicola Sturgeon unveiled
:55:12. > :55:13.the Scottish government's plans The first minister hinted she may
:55:14. > :55:17.raise taxes to pay for measures like ending the 1% cap
:55:18. > :55:19.on public sector pay. Tory MP Jacob Rees Mogg downplayed
:55:20. > :55:23.suggestions he might be Heaven knows, next you'll be
:55:24. > :55:36.offering me the papacy! Well, let's discuss some
:55:37. > :55:52.of the week's events now We saw Jacob Rees Mogg is there. A
:55:53. > :55:56.bit of a silly season 's story, the movement, people talking about him
:55:57. > :56:01.as a future Tory leadership person. People even saying he is Superman in
:56:02. > :56:06.disguise. Pretty controversial views this week on abortion and gay
:56:07. > :56:11.marriage. Does it kill his chances? To be honest, I've never really
:56:12. > :56:18.taken his chances seriously. Perhaps that is my bad. I just cannot see it
:56:19. > :56:22.happening. It would add immense to the gaiety of the nation. He is an
:56:23. > :56:28.intelligent man, some very articulate thoughts as well. It
:56:29. > :56:31.would be difficult with those views. People would massively respect he is
:56:32. > :56:38.a man of principle, he must have known when he articulated those
:56:39. > :56:41.views they would cause a storm. They are very extremely socially
:56:42. > :56:45.conservative. But we saw what happened to Tim Farron when he
:56:46. > :56:49.articulated religious views on gay marriage, which were not to with the
:56:50. > :56:53.kind of mainstream consensus, and that was very difficult for him.
:56:54. > :56:55.Does it show it is difficult to be deeply religious and be deeply
:56:56. > :56:59.religious and beer front line politician? It would seem so. It
:57:00. > :57:05.seems to be one of the things we've learned this year. We rule out Jacob
:57:06. > :57:14.Rees Mogg's chances? We ruled out Jeremy Corbyn's! 200-1! Was your
:57:15. > :57:20.money and Jeremy from the beginning? Mayor, I was referring to Trump.
:57:21. > :57:24.There is the received wisdom about politics. I wouldn't rule anything
:57:25. > :57:29.out. What you have to remember is when Theresa May goes, and she will
:57:30. > :57:32.sooner rather than later... She says later. She can say what she likes
:57:33. > :57:36.but I don't think a party think so. No one takes it seriously stop
:57:37. > :57:41.though it won't be the country who decides, it'll be the small number
:57:42. > :57:44.of conservative grassroots members who might quite like Jacob Rees
:57:45. > :57:48.Mogg. Sadiq Khan says he's been snubbed at the Labour conference,
:57:49. > :57:51.he's not giving a speech. What is behind that? There's been a real
:57:52. > :57:59.clamp-down by Jeremy Corbyn's offers who's been allowed to have speeches.
:58:00. > :58:03.No Sadiq Khan, no Andy Burnham, no mayor of Merseyside. And a lot of
:58:04. > :58:08.the shadow cabinet ministers have been told no speeches because it is
:58:09. > :58:11.all about Jeremy, I think. What they are saying, in fairness, is they
:58:12. > :58:16.want to give space to delegates and normal party members. What if David
:58:17. > :58:21.Cameron had stopped Boris in this way? He might have had an even more
:58:22. > :58:24.rocky eve of conference than he did every year anyway. Boris was
:58:25. > :58:27.creating trouble just before conference anyway. I get the
:58:28. > :58:32.impression Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to be outshone by some of these
:58:33. > :58:36.big names. I very much doubt it. Trouble being made beforehand. Thank
:58:37. > :58:38.you very much for joining me. Thanks to my guests,
:58:39. > :58:40.especially Isabel and Jack. The one o'clock news is starting
:58:41. > :58:43.over on BBC One now. Jo will be back here
:58:44. > :58:47.on BBC Two on Monday at midday