0:00:37 > 0:00:43Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics
0:00:43 > 0:00:45Fixed odds betting terminals have been blamed for a dramatic rise
0:00:45 > 0:00:49in problem gambling.
0:00:49 > 0:00:51Do Government proposals to cap stakes on the lucrative
0:00:51 > 0:00:55machines go far enough?
0:00:55 > 0:01:00A no deal Brexit could cost 75,000 finance jobs -
0:01:00 > 0:01:04so says the Bank of England - but is the bank just getting
0:01:04 > 0:01:05in the Halloween spirit with more project fear?
0:01:05 > 0:01:08The family of a British man, captured by Kurdish forces in Syria,
0:01:08 > 0:01:09say he is being tortured.
0:01:09 > 0:01:12But should someone who has been accused of supporting so-called
0:01:12 > 0:01:18Islamic State expect assistance from UK authorities?
0:01:18 > 0:01:20And politicians are constantly haunted by bad
0:01:20 > 0:01:22decisions they've made but are there real ghosts and ghouls
0:01:22 > 0:01:27stalking the Palace of Westminster?
0:01:32 > 0:01:35All that in the next hour and with us for the whole
0:01:35 > 0:01:38of the programme today is a woman for whom the word "tsar" might have
0:01:38 > 0:01:42been first appropriated - in British politics at least.
0:01:42 > 0:01:52Louise Casey was Homelessness Tsar for Tony Blair, she then headed up
0:01:52 > 0:01:54the Anti-social Behaviour Unit and most recently she's completed
0:01:54 > 0:01:57a review into community cohesion and extremism in a report that
0:01:57 > 0:01:58bears her name.
0:01:58 > 0:01:59Welcome to the programme.
0:01:59 > 0:02:01First this morning, the Resolution Foundation think tank
0:02:01 > 0:02:03has called for Government to reduce the six-week wait
0:02:03 > 0:02:10for Universal Credit payments by 10 days.
0:02:10 > 0:02:14The think thank that exists to improve outcomes for people on low
0:02:14 > 0:02:18and modest incomes, says the welfare reform should not be abandoned but
0:02:18 > 0:02:24that in its current form it is not "fit for purpose in 21st century
0:02:24 > 0:02:26Britain."
0:02:26 > 0:02:29The report comes as the Government prepares to reveal the details
0:02:29 > 0:02:31of the changes Theresa May announced to Housing Benefit at Prime
0:02:31 > 0:02:33Minister's Questions last week.
0:02:33 > 0:02:39Louise Casey, you said it is like jumping over a cliff. Once we jump,
0:02:39 > 0:02:43people end up in circumstances and we don't want that happening, more
0:02:43 > 0:02:47dire than we have seen in years. If Universal Credit is rolled out in
0:02:47 > 0:02:52the way the Government proposes, do you still think that?I do. I think
0:02:52 > 0:02:55it is fund amentally flawed policy when it comes to delivery. Everybody
0:02:55 > 0:02:58agrees work should pay and that everybody agrees in the overall
0:02:58 > 0:03:03position but the fact of the matter is, if you stake is somewhere like
0:03:03 > 0:03:06Doncaster, over 50% of the population are paid less than
0:03:06 > 0:03:13monthly. It is all right for all of us being paid monthly when you say
0:03:13 > 0:03:18the Government dropping to four weeks from six weeks, won't be good
0:03:18 > 0:03:22enough. I feel strong lane the Resolution Foundation and Lloyds
0:03:22 > 0:03:26Bank have said people going on to Universal Credit are the opposite of
0:03:26 > 0:03:30people paid monthly, ie almost 60% of those people are on less than
0:03:30 > 0:03:36monthly payments. So everybody going - oh, no, OK, monthly will be fine,
0:03:36 > 0:03:39because that's what the vast majority of us think that everybody
0:03:39 > 0:03:43is paid, the cycles they are paid on, will not work. My point is, it
0:03:43 > 0:03:47is a flawed delivery. When things are flawed, in terms of delivery,
0:03:47 > 0:03:50it's really all right to say - we are not getting the intention of the
0:03:50 > 0:03:58policy right, we are going to change it, but they have to change it
0:03:58 > 0:04:02properly. The Government of course says it has been piloted and worked
0:04:02 > 0:04:07for a large number of people. You gave me some statistics which sound
0:04:07 > 0:04:14like the vast majorities of those on low incomes don't work on a month
0:04:14 > 0:04:18lay basis, are you saying it should be shortened? I think it should be
0:04:18 > 0:04:21proportionate to the money people are paid on when they need benefit T
0:04:21 > 0:04:25wouldn't be that difficult to do. If people are paid weekly we should
0:04:25 > 0:04:30help them from the week they are not paid from. We are ending up with a
0:04:30 > 0:04:33benefit system that is punitive. I don't think we should have a benefit
0:04:33 > 0:04:37system that should punish poor people. We should have a benefit
0:04:37 > 0:04:40system that supports poor people in getting back into work.What do you
0:04:40 > 0:04:45say to the Government that says, yes, a majority of people who have
0:04:45 > 0:04:49jobs are paid on a monthly basis and that's what other people should try
0:04:49 > 0:04:52and aspire to do, manage their finances and benefit on the same
0:04:52 > 0:04:56basis.That's all right when you are in the Palace of Westminster and
0:04:56 > 0:05:00paid monthly it is not all right on the streets of places like Doncaster
0:05:00 > 0:05:02and Manchester and Newcastle and Sunderland, where people are not
0:05:02 > 0:05:11paid on a monthly basis and that's part of the problem here. With this
0:05:11 > 0:05:13difference between essentially Westminster politics and the
0:05:13 > 0:05:16government not being in touch with what they want that you are policy
0:05:16 > 0:05:19to deliver. Theresa May said on the door of Downing Street that she was
0:05:19 > 0:05:23a one nation politician and she would help the people that were
0:05:23 > 0:05:26powerful and had no voice. This is an example of where she could make a
0:05:26 > 0:05:30change to deliver on that promise. Why do you think they are not doing
0:05:30 > 0:05:35it? They have constituents, they have postbags, they will know, of
0:05:35 > 0:05:39examples, maybe not so much in places like Maidenhead, Theresa
0:05:39 > 0:05:42May's constituency, but they will know about these issues, why are
0:05:42 > 0:05:50they not changing it?I did 18 years of working for ministers and for
0:05:50 > 0:05:53Prime Ministers in Whitehall. Quite often when a approximatelicy is set,
0:05:53 > 0:05:57it becomes set in stone and then people get into defending it and
0:05:57 > 0:06:03then people want it to continue and then they tribe find small
0:06:03 > 0:06:12Amelliourations to it and it goes on and on. The country is frayed at the
0:06:12 > 0:06:16edges, the last thing we need to do is punish the poor even more for
0:06:16 > 0:06:21being poor.You have said there are things that are done around the
0:06:21 > 0:06:25edges of policies set in stone, even if in your mind they are not going
0:06:25 > 0:06:29to be delivered properly. We have had the helpline made free. The
0:06:29 > 0:06:32guidance to job centre staff has been updated on how people can
0:06:32 > 0:06:35access emergency payments and of course the U-Turn that the
0:06:35 > 0:06:40Government is set, to drop plans to cap housing benefit for people
0:06:40 > 0:06:44living in social rented accommodation. Is that enough?No,
0:06:44 > 0:06:48not when it Co comes to the specific policy of Universal Credit. All of
0:06:48 > 0:06:51those things are more than helpful. They are great, particularly if they
0:06:51 > 0:06:56change the housing benefit rules but if you come back to this one
0:06:56 > 0:06:59particular flagship policy - there are two things that are a problem
0:06:59 > 0:07:09with it, the people entering into it are paid less than monthly, the vast
0:07:09 > 0:07:11majority and the second thing, hardship payments are not payments
0:07:11 > 0:07:16they are loans. The line many ministers and others are using, we
0:07:16 > 0:07:19are helping people they can apply for these loans, will mean that
0:07:19 > 0:07:23people will still not get the right amount of help. This is a country
0:07:23 > 0:07:29that needs to take stock of the fact that Westminster is out of kilter
0:07:29 > 0:07:33with the vast majority of many people in some of our poorer and
0:07:33 > 0:07:39tougherers why. And this will be a -- tougher areas. This is a symbolic
0:07:39 > 0:07:41change that the Government has listened?Do you think they'll
0:07:41 > 0:07:49shorten the waiting time?I think they will shorten it, but whether it
0:07:49 > 0:07:57will be enough?Now to something different:
0:07:57 > 0:07:59Time for our daily quiz.
0:07:59 > 0:08:00The question for today is:
0:08:00 > 0:08:03it's Halloween, or All Hallow's Eve, the scariest day of the year
0:08:03 > 0:08:05but which ghost is said to haunt Number 10?
0:08:05 > 0:08:07Is it A, The Lady in White who wonders between
0:08:07 > 0:08:08the state dining rooms.
0:08:08 > 0:08:10B, the Ghost of Humphrey, former Downing Street cat?
0:08:10 > 0:08:12C, the Phantom Policeman, who keeps watch over
0:08:12 > 0:08:13British Prime Ministers?
0:08:13 > 0:08:15Or D, the spirit of Jean Claude Juncker?
0:08:15 > 0:08:23At the end of the show Louise will give us the correct answer.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26you haven't been a tsar for that long without knowing who the ghost
0:08:26 > 0:08:28is.
0:08:28 > 0:08:30This morning, it emerged that the Bank of England believes
0:08:30 > 0:08:33that up to 75,000 jobs could be lost in the UK's financial services
0:08:33 > 0:08:35sector after Brexit, particularly if there is no deal
0:08:35 > 0:08:40between Britain and the EU.
0:08:40 > 0:08:42And ministers are also preparing for battles in Parliament -
0:08:42 > 0:08:44where opposition and Conservative MPs are tabling hundreds
0:08:44 > 0:08:46of amendments to the Government's Brexit legislation.
0:08:46 > 0:08:48For many people who voted to leave the EU, it amounts
0:08:48 > 0:08:50to an attempt to derail Brexit.
0:08:50 > 0:08:55Let's take a look.
0:08:55 > 0:08:59In the view of the Bank of England, the loss of 75,000 is a "reasonable
0:08:59 > 0:09:01scenario", especially if there is not a deal
0:09:01 > 0:09:02covering financial services.
0:09:02 > 0:09:07Meanwhile, ministers have revealed a list of the 58 sectors
0:09:07 > 0:09:10of the economy in which they have assessed the impact of Brexit
0:09:10 > 0:09:12but they're resisting calls to publish the results
0:09:12 > 0:09:15of those assessments.
0:09:15 > 0:09:17And yesterday chief Brexit negotiator,
0:09:17 > 0:09:18Michel Barnier, took time to meet
0:09:18 > 0:09:24three senior anti-Brexit British politicians.
0:09:24 > 0:09:26"The Rebels" - as they called themselves - included the former
0:09:26 > 0:09:28Conservative Chancellor, Ken Clarke, and former Liberal Democrat
0:09:28 > 0:09:29leader, Nick Clegg.
0:09:29 > 0:09:31In Parliament, the Government's flagship piece of Brexit
0:09:31 > 0:09:34legislation, the EU Withdrawal Bill, will be back in the Commons
0:09:34 > 0:09:36in exactly two weeks.
0:09:36 > 0:09:43Ministers will then have to tangle with a huge number of possible
0:09:43 > 0:09:46and Conservative MPs.
0:09:46 > 0:09:47The total is currently 347
0:09:47 > 0:09:49amendments.
0:09:49 > 0:09:51And the Withdrawal Bill is just one of eight Brexit bills
0:09:51 > 0:09:58that the Government wants to become law.
0:09:58 > 0:10:00But it's not just those Brexit bills that could be amended.
0:10:00 > 0:10:03Yesterday, the Government appeared to be facing defeat in the House
0:10:03 > 0:10:08of Lords with a Labour amendment seeking to include part of the EU's
0:10:08 > 0:10:10Charter of Fundamental Rights in the Data Protection Bill but in
0:10:10 > 0:10:12the end the amendment wasn't moved.
0:10:12 > 0:10:14And joining me now is the Culture Minister, Matt Hancock.
0:10:14 > 0:10:18Let's start with the issue of the data protection bill, which you are
0:10:18 > 0:10:23responsible for. Now we reported yesterday Labour wanted part of the
0:10:23 > 0:10:26EU's Charter of Fundamental Rights put into the bill and it was thought
0:10:26 > 0:10:29you could be facing defeat. It was then withdrawn. Are you breathing a
0:10:29 > 0:10:33huge sigh of relief?I think we won the argument. Labour put forward
0:10:33 > 0:10:38this amendment. I know you discussed it on the programme yesterday. The
0:10:38 > 0:10:48amendment would've had some very serious negative repercussions. We
0:10:48 > 0:10:51thought carefully about this bill and bills before Parliament and I'm
0:10:51 > 0:10:56glad we decided at the last minute not to push the amendment. Part of
0:10:56 > 0:11:00the parliamentary process is looking at the amendments tabled and seeing
0:11:00 > 0:11:04if any has any merit and if you think that some are damaging, then
0:11:04 > 0:11:08pushing back and winning the argue um.Do you see that Brexit is now
0:11:08 > 0:11:13going to impact on the wider legislative agenda and actually the
0:11:13 > 0:11:16opposition will take opportunities to make life more difficult for the
0:11:16 > 0:11:20Government with bills like data were text. I mean it is not even one of
0:11:20 > 0:11:24the Government's eight Brexit bills? No, I suppose the data protection
0:11:24 > 0:11:28bill shows that Parliament is getting on with delivering important
0:11:28 > 0:11:32legislation as well as Brexit. Of course the withdrawal bill is a
0:11:32 > 0:11:37serious piece of legislation and will take significant amounts of
0:11:37 > 0:11:41parliamentary time it properly be scrutinised and, of course by its
0:11:41 > 0:11:46nature. But, therein, the biggest piece of legislation in front of
0:11:46 > 0:11:50Parliament at the moment is the data protection bill and it is bringing
0:11:50 > 0:11:54our data rules into the modern age and preparing us for this enormous
0:11:54 > 0:11:58digital transformation. So, it shows that we are getting on with
0:11:58 > 0:12:02preparing the country for other things, and improving in other
0:12:02 > 0:12:06areas, in this case giving people more privacy, but also allowing
0:12:06 > 0:12:10people to use this amazing new technology. You claim you won the
0:12:10 > 0:12:14argument yesterday and certainly it went through. But these sorts of
0:12:14 > 0:12:17skirmishes, and we discussed it yesterday, are nothing compared to
0:12:17 > 0:12:21what we are going to see when it comes to something like the EU
0:12:21 > 0:12:27withdrawal bill, which of course a mayiour.The major Brexit bill. How
0:12:27 > 0:12:30worried are you by the numbers of Conservatives rebels who'll team up
0:12:30 > 0:12:34with the opposition parties like Labour, and in this case table 347
0:12:34 > 0:12:37amendments between them?Well it is normal there are a lot of amendments
0:12:37 > 0:12:41on bills.Not 347.Clearly a lot here. Clearly there will be a
0:12:41 > 0:12:46debate. There has already been an enormous debate about it. But I'm
0:12:46 > 0:12:56pretty confident of getting it through. The reason is this - the
0:12:56 > 0:12:59fundamental feeling of Parliament is that the result of the referendum
0:12:59 > 0:13:03needs to be respected. So people, no matter how they Veet voted more than
0:13:03 > 0:13:06a year ago in the referendum believe we have to deliver.You accept
0:13:06 > 0:13:10different interpretations of that. So I say again, how are you worried
0:13:10 > 0:13:13by the perhaps 15 to 25 Conservative rebels who are saying they are
0:13:13 > 0:13:18prepared it team up with the opposition parties to defeat you?I
0:13:18 > 0:13:22think we've got the - the Government I think has won't argument on the
0:13:22 > 0:13:25core principle, which is that you have to respect the result of the
0:13:25 > 0:13:30referendum no matter how people voted.Why are there 347 amendments?
0:13:30 > 0:13:35You have not won any argument when it comes to the EU withdrawal bill.
0:13:35 > 0:13:40How will you deal with that? Amendment by amendment:Is that why
0:13:40 > 0:13:44it is delayed?No they get groups. You deal with groups. Some will be
0:13:44 > 0:13:48highly technical. Some will be show boating and others will be serious
0:13:48 > 0:13:51amendments on the issues. This is the process of Parliament. Afterall,
0:13:51 > 0:13:58one of the great things about having a parliamentary system like this is
0:13:58 > 0:14:01that everybody in Parliament can put their amendments down and then we go
0:14:01 > 0:14:05through them...So it is legitimate parliamentary scrutiny, in your
0:14:05 > 0:14:10mind, by your colleagues, here, or do you think this is a large group
0:14:10 > 0:14:14of pro-Remain MPs who are still not reconciled to Brexit happening and
0:14:14 > 0:14:19are trying to thwart it?As it happens, I think it is questions on
0:14:19 > 0:14:22the detachls I think the fact that we got the timetable through for
0:14:22 > 0:14:26this Bill, in September. There was a vote in September, which means that
0:14:26 > 0:14:30this will be done in an organised way in Parliament, not all through
0:14:30 > 0:14:34the night sittings, as there have been on bills in the past. That
0:14:34 > 0:14:38shows that people are serious about, yes, having the parliamentary debate
0:14:38 > 0:14:41and enough parliamentary time to have the discussions, but also,
0:14:41 > 0:14:46coming to a reasonable conclusion. Is it also legitimate then,
0:14:46 > 0:14:49parliamentary screw the no I have your colleague, Dominic Grieve to
0:14:49 > 0:14:53table an amendment to insist a no-deal scenario cannot happen and
0:14:53 > 0:14:57this should be written into the bill s that legitimate?I don't happen to
0:14:57 > 0:15:00agree with him on that but MPs can put down their amendments on all
0:15:00 > 0:15:04sorts of things. Ultimately we will have a lot of debate and then the
0:15:04 > 0:15:08bill will go through and then we'll leave and that will help us to leave
0:15:08 > 0:15:12in the most orderly pay possible. Ultimately, you know, people - the
0:15:12 > 0:15:17people on that side of the argument don't want a cliff edge, any more
0:15:17 > 0:15:22than I do. And legislation is critical to ensure we have an
0:15:22 > 0:15:25orderly departure.Is it reasonable of the Bank of England, who today
0:15:25 > 0:15:30have said up to 75,000 jobs could be lost in financial service, following
0:15:30 > 0:15:34Britain's departure from the European Union?
0:15:34 > 0:15:39The bank is independent and they can say what they think.Do you think it
0:15:39 > 0:15:43is likely to happen?I think we will get a good deal so it is
0:15:43 > 0:15:48hypothetical but also Britain and the City of London will succeed
0:15:48 > 0:15:53after Brexit. We have seen that after the referendum decision, huge
0:15:53 > 0:15:56amount of investment decisions into the UK and more than I expected at
0:15:56 > 0:16:02the time.So the Bank of England is wrong?I think Britain will be
0:16:02 > 0:16:08hugely successful.You don't think 75,000 jobs could be lost, they
0:16:08 > 0:16:12could expect job losses even with a trading deal so are they just
0:16:12 > 0:16:16scaremongering?I used to be an economic forecaster and one thing
0:16:16 > 0:16:21I've learned to do is never make economic forecast! The last couple
0:16:21 > 0:16:24of years have strengthened that position but I will say that Britain
0:16:24 > 0:16:28is an incredibly strong country and we have had some excellent
0:16:28 > 0:16:31investment into the UK since the referendum and we will make a
0:16:31 > 0:16:37success of it and I am confident we can be an incredibly successful
0:16:37 > 0:16:41country both in financial services and more broadly, in the tech area
0:16:41 > 0:16:45that I look after we have had investment from almost all the major
0:16:45 > 0:16:50companies.And you can do that even if the UK loses its special
0:16:50 > 0:16:53passporting right, banks can grow and the city will thrive?I'm
0:16:53 > 0:16:59confident we will get a good deal. And when we look at your area, there
0:16:59 > 0:17:03are assessment being done at the moment, have you seen the assessment
0:17:03 > 0:17:09for the digital area post Brexit? There is not a specific one around
0:17:09 > 0:17:13digital, it obviously affects huge swathes of the economy.Had you seen
0:17:13 > 0:17:18any of the assessment?I have seen some as advice to ministers and we
0:17:18 > 0:17:22get advice all the time and that is an important part of the
0:17:22 > 0:17:25decision-making process that civil servants can give me advice and know
0:17:25 > 0:17:30that it will remain private. If you don't have that private space, you
0:17:30 > 0:17:33can't have a genuine discussion between civil servants and
0:17:33 > 0:17:38ministers.If that you are basing your positive outlook on, that
0:17:38 > 0:17:42government assessment?On all sorts of things, on internal assessments,
0:17:42 > 0:17:49on the decisions that have been made by international investors
0:17:49 > 0:17:53everywhere from Apple, Google, Facebook, Amazon, IBM, they are all
0:17:53 > 0:17:58made significant and overall multi-billion dollar investment
0:17:58 > 0:18:01decisions since the referendum.You will not publish those assessments
0:18:01 > 0:18:06but if they are that positive why wouldn't you?Because I am not going
0:18:06 > 0:18:09to get into publishing advice that is given to me as a minister. I
0:18:09 > 0:18:15would incredibly closely with civil service.What about transparency?
0:18:15 > 0:18:18They are some of the most brilliant minds in the country and they give
0:18:18 > 0:18:23me a full and frank advice and so they should. But if they thought
0:18:23 > 0:18:27their advice might in future be published, they would be tempered
0:18:27 > 0:18:31and how they would write it down. I need people advising me to be
0:18:31 > 0:18:37completely frank and open with me knowing that they can be frank in
0:18:37 > 0:18:43advice to ministers because it will be respected and kept private and
0:18:43 > 0:18:49not accidentally part of the wider debate.Since Matt Hancock has asked
0:18:49 > 0:18:52for your agreement in terms of the advice that civil servants get, do
0:18:52 > 0:18:57you think it is what we do not see these important assessment about how
0:18:57 > 0:19:01British industry and various departments will look in their
0:19:01 > 0:19:06analysis post Brexit?I think it is absolutely, I was listening to the
0:19:06 > 0:19:08conversation and thinking that part of the problem with this is that the
0:19:08 > 0:19:12country does not know who to believe and whether we are coming or going
0:19:12 > 0:19:17and most of us are worried about housing, whether the kids can pay
0:19:17 > 0:19:26their rent, if jobs will go out of the window because of Brexit or if
0:19:26 > 0:19:29more jobs will arise because of it. It is hard to see what the truth is
0:19:29 > 0:19:32behind that and there must be true in some of it. Some will be right
0:19:32 > 0:19:36and some wrong. I personally think it would be a very good idea if the
0:19:36 > 0:19:40government and others gave more information in a much more
0:19:40 > 0:19:44transparent way about how to go forward, whether that is private
0:19:44 > 0:19:49ministerial advice... Sometimes you think, you can you trust. The
0:19:49 > 0:19:52Institute for Fiscal Studies, the government, Keir Starmer? It is hard
0:19:52 > 0:19:56to get to the bottom of it and sometimes there is a role for
0:19:56 > 0:20:00independent advice to say that these are the different stages we can take
0:20:00 > 0:20:04going through Brexit. What I do know is that I think the bickering has to
0:20:04 > 0:20:11stop, which is what it feels like, it feels like a constant,
0:20:11 > 0:20:15pro-Brexit, anti-Brexit, Remain, we are tired with all of that but we
0:20:15 > 0:20:19want to help the negotiators through something that does not make people
0:20:19 > 0:20:23poorer and worse off. Those are the people who might be worst affected.
0:20:23 > 0:20:27Louise Casey thinks you should public those assessments.That's not
0:20:27 > 0:20:31quite what she said.You could publish more information to help
0:20:31 > 0:20:35make the argument otherwise why should we believe you?A good
0:20:35 > 0:20:39example of this, over the summer we published over a dozen papers on
0:20:39 > 0:20:43where we wanted to get to in various different areas. And we did one in
0:20:43 > 0:20:51data protection.I have read a few. We do publish...Those were not
0:20:51 > 0:20:57assessments, that was a wish list. It is part of the negotiating
0:20:57 > 0:21:00strategy.That is not the same as an assessment of how Britain would look
0:21:00 > 0:21:05post Brexit. Would that help people be convinced that it would be a
0:21:05 > 0:21:10positive thing?I have said it I think it will be. I think asking
0:21:10 > 0:21:14officials to write advice to a minister in private and
0:21:14 > 0:21:18after-the-fact demanding it is published is unfair on officials and
0:21:18 > 0:21:23crucially makes decision-making harder.Was it wrong of Michel
0:21:23 > 0:21:28Barnier to meet Nick Clegg, Ken Clarke and Lauda Denis Grachev he
0:21:28 > 0:21:32can meet who he likes but what he needs to know but what he needs to
0:21:32 > 0:21:36know is that is not the centre of gravity in British politics -- Lord
0:21:36 > 0:21:42Adonis.The British people made a decision and we need to get the best
0:21:42 > 0:21:48possible deal.Would he have more clarity meeting them than David
0:21:48 > 0:21:52Davis?No, David Davis is doing an excellent job.Do you think Ken
0:21:52 > 0:21:57Clarke should have done that at a sitting Conservative MP?It is
0:21:57 > 0:21:59perfectly reasonable for Michel Barnier or whoever to meet who they
0:21:59 > 0:22:02want to come I'm in favour of talking to people that you agree
0:22:02 > 0:22:07with and disagree with but the crucial thing is for the negotiators
0:22:07 > 0:22:13on the other side to know that that does not represent the core of
0:22:13 > 0:22:16British politics and what we actually want to do is get on and
0:22:16 > 0:22:20get a good deal that is good for us and good for the EU and make a
0:22:20 > 0:22:22success of it.
0:22:22 > 0:22:25Stay with us for a moment, Matt, because the Government has announced
0:22:25 > 0:22:26a review of regulations on gambling.
0:22:26 > 0:22:29A 12-week consultation will cover online gamblers, the protections
0:22:29 > 0:22:30of minors and advertising.
0:22:30 > 0:22:34But most of the attention this morning has focussed on the 34,000
0:22:34 > 0:22:37fixed odds betting machines, on which a punter can lose up
0:22:37 > 0:22:40to £100 every 20 seconds.
0:22:40 > 0:22:43A Church of England bishop today called on the maximum
0:22:43 > 0:22:51stake to be capped at £2.
0:22:51 > 0:22:57Do you agree that it should be capped?I don't know. I think
0:22:57 > 0:23:03introducing any form of regulation that deals with addiction, when that
0:23:03 > 0:23:05addiction is literally pouring money out of a family and into the
0:23:05 > 0:23:08property at somebody else, that can only be a good thing. One thing I
0:23:08 > 0:23:15did think about listening to some of the coverage of this, was if anybody
0:23:15 > 0:23:17had asked the addicts what they think the amount should be set at,
0:23:17 > 0:23:21rather than those who are not addicts having views on what happens
0:23:21 > 0:23:28to poor people.Should it be set at £2?I think we want to hear the
0:23:28 > 0:23:34evidence, that is why we published the consultation.If you think that
0:23:34 > 0:23:38£100 is particularly bad for people who are addicted to that sort of
0:23:38 > 0:23:42gambling £50 did not going to make that much difference.We want to
0:23:42 > 0:23:46have a debate on that and this paper has sparked that off. I agree with
0:23:46 > 0:23:50Louise that we need to have all of the views of the people affected by
0:23:50 > 0:23:56this right across the board. We have a 12 week consultation and we
0:23:56 > 0:23:59purposely ensured it is broad so we can get the views of people on what
0:23:59 > 0:24:03to do.I do think it should be incredibly low, I would not rule out
0:24:03 > 0:24:09£2, because the type of gambling this is dealing with it so fast and
0:24:09 > 0:24:14repetitive. £50 would be a disaster because it is such a lot of money to
0:24:14 > 0:24:20people in this type of position. Again and again, I welcome us doing
0:24:20 > 0:24:26something about this and the Church of England is right to set it in
0:24:26 > 0:24:28could be low, because this is all about something that has happened
0:24:28 > 0:24:35within three years and it should never have gone as wild in terms of
0:24:35 > 0:24:39licensing around betting but we are where we are and it is trying to now
0:24:39 > 0:24:44get the genie back into the bottle which will take radical change.
0:24:44 > 0:24:48Ministers should be brave at the end of this consultation about being
0:24:48 > 0:24:53very serious with dealing with the human beings on the receiving end of
0:24:53 > 0:24:55that type of marketing.Thank you.
0:24:55 > 0:24:57Now, discussions are going between Brussels and London
0:24:57 > 0:25:01about when the next round of Brexit negotiations will take place.
0:25:01 > 0:25:04The aim is for a deal to move onto the next stage of the talks
0:25:04 > 0:25:12to be in place before EU leaders meet in December.
0:25:12 > 0:25:15But the EU's chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, was busy yesterday,
0:25:15 > 0:25:18when he met three leading Remain campaigners.
0:25:19 > 0:25:21Hello again.
0:25:21 > 0:25:24Gentlemen, what brings you here today?
0:25:24 > 0:25:26We're going to see Michel Barnier and a few other
0:25:26 > 0:25:27people in the European Commission.
0:25:27 > 0:25:29Are you here to stop Brexit?
0:25:29 > 0:25:30LAUGHS
0:25:30 > 0:25:31If only it were that easy.
0:25:31 > 0:25:32No, no...
0:25:32 > 0:25:34We're here to talk cricket.
0:25:34 > 0:25:37We're here just to get a better understanding of what's going on.
0:25:37 > 0:25:39Ken, are you allowed to be here, this isn't Government policy,
0:25:39 > 0:25:41is it?
0:25:41 > 0:25:43Government policy, not visiting Brussels?
0:25:43 > 0:25:47What will you be asking Mr Barnier?
0:25:54 > 0:25:59I'm joined now by a Finnish deputy minister, Samuli Virtanen.
0:25:59 > 0:26:07I hope I pronounced your name correctly. The three rebels, Nick
0:26:07 > 0:26:10Clegg, Ken Clarke and Lord Adonis, do you think Michel Barnier should
0:26:10 > 0:26:18have been meeting them?It is up to Michel Barnier who he wants to meet.
0:26:18 > 0:26:23He is a nice man and I have seen him several times and he is able to beat
0:26:23 > 0:26:29anybody.Do you think it will help the negotiations?That is another
0:26:29 > 0:26:35thing. -- he is able to meet anybody. I think it is perhaps not
0:26:35 > 0:26:42ideal at this point of the negotiations.You have previously
0:26:42 > 0:26:45alluded to divisions within the UK Cabinet as one of the main
0:26:45 > 0:26:51problems...Not the Cabinet.In the government and the EU knows that
0:26:51 > 0:26:54Theresa May has a slim majority so is the EU actively trying to
0:26:54 > 0:26:59undermine Theresa May in these negotiations in your mind?Let me be
0:26:59 > 0:27:03clear what I said in Luxembourg and elsewhere, that at the moment it
0:27:03 > 0:27:09seems that the EU 27 is more unanimous. I did not refer to the UK
0:27:09 > 0:27:18Government. The ministers I have met all got the same message, what I
0:27:18 > 0:27:24have heard that the speech Theresa May gave in Florence, it was
0:27:24 > 0:27:28analysed and gone through by the inside Cabinet.Although you have
0:27:28 > 0:27:31said it is difficult to see what Britain wants from these
0:27:31 > 0:27:37negotiations.That's true, because we basically know what the
0:27:37 > 0:27:41government wants come they want to have a good deal.Everybody wants a
0:27:41 > 0:27:48good deal.We also want that. But I'm here on a more or less
0:27:48 > 0:27:55fact-finding mission for two days, trying to understand what Britain as
0:27:55 > 0:28:01a country wants. When you read the British newspapers, the media,
0:28:01 > 0:28:07following the discussions in the Parliament here in Westminster, you
0:28:07 > 0:28:14get an idea that, OK, the majority of the British people want to leave
0:28:14 > 0:28:20the EU, but it seems that there are some saying that perhaps we should
0:28:20 > 0:28:26cancel the whole thing.Does that mean that if there were to be an
0:28:26 > 0:28:31increase in the number of meetings between Michel Barnier and the UK,
0:28:31 > 0:28:36that it might help the negotiations? Do you think the EU has been quite
0:28:36 > 0:28:40inflexible in terms of broadening the remit so that trade talks could
0:28:40 > 0:28:44be discussed as part of the divorce settlement, and that they should
0:28:44 > 0:28:51meet with more frequency?Basically I think that when we get around the
0:28:51 > 0:28:59negotiating table we should have two equal partners. When Michel Barnier
0:28:59 > 0:29:05gets there, he knows he has the back-up of 27 countries, but it is
0:29:05 > 0:29:09quite difficult for the UK Government, because we get one
0:29:09 > 0:29:14message from the government and then there are messages coming from
0:29:14 > 0:29:20London saying that, actually, we could do it in another way. I have
0:29:20 > 0:29:24met people in Helsinki and Brussels and Luxembourg who have said to me,
0:29:24 > 0:29:32you know, perhaps they will cancel the Brexit.Do you believe that is a
0:29:32 > 0:29:38possible scenario?No. I believe that Brexit is going to happen.Is
0:29:38 > 0:29:46it not just about the money from your side? Britain is a net
0:29:46 > 0:29:51contributor...Like Finland.And when they leave there will be a hole
0:29:51 > 0:29:55in the budget and Emmanuel Macron made it clear that Britain is only
0:29:55 > 0:30:00halfway there so it comes down to euros and pounds four U?Money is
0:30:00 > 0:30:05one of the biggest issues is not the biggest, but we have a long way
0:30:05 > 0:30:11ahead of us still to find the solution and agreement which works
0:30:11 > 0:30:17for everybody.But why should Britain pay more than what it those
0:30:17 > 0:30:24in the minds of the EU into in the budget until 2020? There is no legal
0:30:24 > 0:30:28obligation on Britain.No, rights and opposition must be balanced, I
0:30:28 > 0:30:33think that is what the EU has said. But 20 billion euros is what has
0:30:33 > 0:30:38been intimated by Britain, is that not enough?That's something that
0:30:38 > 0:30:42belongs to the negotiating table. But you would like to see more money
0:30:42 > 0:30:47on the table?I want to see a deal which is fair for everybody.Which
0:30:47 > 0:30:53would be? In terms of Euros?I'm not going to name any summer.Are you
0:30:53 > 0:30:59confident there will be a deal by March 2019?-- any amount. I
0:30:59 > 0:31:03certainly hope so, time is ticking and we don't have time to waste at
0:31:03 > 0:31:06this point but I definitely hope we will find a good deal and that is
0:31:06 > 0:31:13also partly why I'm here, because Finland, we are part of the 27 of
0:31:13 > 0:31:20course, but we also, one of our best allies in the world and in Europe
0:31:20 > 0:31:25and you are one of our biggest trading partners and very important
0:31:25 > 0:31:29to European security and defence policy. We want to have that
0:31:29 > 0:31:36excellent relationship with you, and the British people decide themselves
0:31:36 > 0:31:39which international organisation they want to belong to or not, that
0:31:39 > 0:31:46is up to you. We just hope that we can intensify and strengthen the
0:31:46 > 0:31:55relationship.
0:31:55 > 0:32:00Now, there are more stories on the front pages of the newspapers
0:32:00 > 0:32:03today about inappropriate behaviour by MPs at Westminster.
0:32:03 > 0:32:09They have come to light in the wake of the Harvey Weinstein
0:32:09 > 0:32:11scandal in Hollywood.
0:32:11 > 0:32:13No substantiated allegations of that seriousness have
0:32:13 > 0:32:15yet to emerge here, but yesterday the Leader
0:32:15 > 0:32:18of the House, Andrea Leadsom, with Theresa May by her side,
0:32:18 > 0:32:20sought to show that the Government was on the front foot
0:32:20 > 0:32:22in dealing with the issue.
0:32:22 > 0:32:24As Members of Parliament, our constituents will be rightly
0:32:24 > 0:32:28appalled at the thought that some representatives in Parliament may
0:32:28 > 0:32:32have acted in an entirely inappropriate way towards others.
0:32:32 > 0:32:39These reports risk bringing all of our offices into disrepute.
0:32:39 > 0:32:42I know this is an issue of great concern to you, Mr Speaker,
0:32:42 > 0:32:44and I know that you will do everything you can
0:32:44 > 0:32:45to tackle this issue.
0:32:45 > 0:32:49And I know that members from all parties will want to work
0:32:49 > 0:32:51alongside you to investigate every claim, provide the right support
0:32:51 > 0:32:53in the future, and make sure this never happens again.
0:32:53 > 0:32:57Mr Speaker, it is a right, not a privilege, to work in a safe
0:32:57 > 0:32:59and respectful environment.
0:32:59 > 0:33:01These plans will ensure that Parliament takes
0:33:01 > 0:33:06a zero tolerance approach.
0:33:06 > 0:33:09Andrea Leadsom updating the Commons yesterday.
0:33:09 > 0:33:12And this morning The Sun's front page led on Defence Secretary
0:33:12 > 0:33:18Michael Fallon's confession that he repeatedly touched a female
0:33:18 > 0:33:20journalist's knee during a radio interview 15 years ago.
0:33:20 > 0:33:24But Julia Hartley-Brewer, the journalist in question,
0:33:24 > 0:33:27insisted she was not a victim and responded to the story
0:33:27 > 0:33:29this morning by tweeting a picture of her knees.
0:33:29 > 0:33:31She said, "Full medical check up this morning and, yes,
0:33:31 > 0:33:33both of my knees are still intact.
0:33:33 > 0:33:34Get a grip people."
0:33:34 > 0:33:43I'm joined now by former MP and whip, Rob Wilson.
0:33:43 > 0:33:47What did you make of the story of Julia Hartley-Brewer and the Defence
0:33:47 > 0:33:51Secretary, Michael Fallon?The first thing to say this is no bigger or
0:33:51 > 0:33:55smaller problem than in other walks of life. There are plenty of
0:33:55 > 0:33:57companies, probably organisations including the BBC where you have had
0:33:57 > 0:34:02men putting their hand on a woman's knee. Now the question in this case
0:34:02 > 0:34:07is - was it inappropriate or in the? Now clearly Michael Fallon has said
0:34:07 > 0:34:11it was inappropriate and has apologised. It did happen a long
0:34:11 > 0:34:15time ago, although that's no excuse and obviously Julia Hartley-Brewer
0:34:15 > 0:34:19has made her feelings clearer on the case.Should it be taken any
0:34:19 > 0:34:23further?I don't think in this case, neither of the participants in that
0:34:23 > 0:34:28want it to be taken further.What is the bedge mark of behaviour in your
0:34:28 > 0:34:31mind that should trigger some sort of sanction or an MP being sacked? .
0:34:31 > 0:34:35It is not really in my mind that counts. It is in the mind of the
0:34:35 > 0:34:39people involved in the incident.Now you know...But someone has to make
0:34:39 > 0:34:43a judgment.There are judgments in employment law about how people
0:34:43 > 0:34:47should be treated. That's the bemplg mark we should try and use. If you
0:34:47 > 0:34:50have made laws, as Members of Parliament, you should be trying to
0:34:50 > 0:34:53keep those laws and uphold them and that means also in situation whereas
0:34:53 > 0:34:56you are dealing with your own staff, but whereas when you are dealing
0:34:56 > 0:35:00with other people's staff. There are certain standards in public life
0:35:00 > 0:35:05that are set out quite clearly. Right, but who do you go to at the
0:35:05 > 0:35:08moment within the Palace of Westminster? If MPs are
0:35:08 > 0:35:13self-employed and also then employers, you don't go to the MP
0:35:13 > 0:35:17who allegedly is harassing you, and say - you are harassing me, you want
0:35:17 > 0:35:20to go somewhere else, you can't. Do you go to the whip? . This is one of
0:35:20 > 0:35:25the big problems that there is in Westminster, and I acknowledge this.
0:35:25 > 0:35:29I think anybody with a brain would acknowledge this. The whole human
0:35:29 > 0:35:33resources system, the way it is set up in Westminster is wrong. It
0:35:33 > 0:35:37should not be that MPs are employing their own staff and responsible in
0:35:37 > 0:35:43that way for their staff. There should be a proper, human resources
0:35:43 > 0:35:46department that has the teeth of any organisation whether it is the BBC,
0:35:46 > 0:35:52the NHS or any other organisation has, to investigate and if
0:35:52 > 0:35:57appropriate, to bring the police into the matter as well.Should the
0:35:57 > 0:36:01trade minister, Mark Garnier, who asked his secretary at the time to
0:36:01 > 0:36:06buy sex toys and then used a demeaning phrase to describe her,
0:36:06 > 0:36:11should he be sacked while he is investigated?Well, that's difficult
0:36:11 > 0:36:13one because there are obviously contrasting interpretations of that
0:36:13 > 0:36:22story. I have seen both sides of the argument. He says he hasn't done the
0:36:22 > 0:36:26same things that the ex-secretary has accused him of. So, it would
0:36:26 > 0:36:31need a proper investigation first, I think.It was about context, I think
0:36:31 > 0:36:34rather than the comments weren't made.If I had been Mark Garnier, I
0:36:34 > 0:36:39certainly would not have asked a PA to go and buy a sex toy and I
0:36:39 > 0:36:43certainly wouldn't have called her by the name he used.There is
0:36:43 > 0:36:47context to what happened there, but do you think while he is
0:36:47 > 0:36:50investigating, he should be suspended, or at least have the whip
0:36:50 > 0:36:57taken away?Well, as far as I understand he has admitted to using
0:36:57 > 0:37:00the expression he used and admitted to asking his secretary,
0:37:00 > 0:37:05historically, to go out and buy sex toys. My view is if he had any
0:37:05 > 0:37:07common sense whatsoever, he would've stood down until whatever
0:37:07 > 0:37:12investigation goes forward but this is all part of - I disagree with
0:37:12 > 0:37:19you, the difference between companies and other organisations is
0:37:19 > 0:37:23they don't stand up in Parliament representing our democracy, they are
0:37:23 > 0:37:26not public servants, you know you are not above the Nolan principles,
0:37:26 > 0:37:30if you see what I mean and some of this behaviour is above and not
0:37:30 > 0:37:34right. The thing missing in all of this, yesterday the Government,
0:37:34 > 0:37:41rightly, good, has said - we are going to put better procedures in
0:37:41 > 0:37:44place, we want to review code of conduct, what Harriet Harman said
0:37:44 > 0:37:48and the Speaker said was fantastic but the onus remains upon the
0:37:48 > 0:37:52victims and women to have a bet procedure. I think that is wrong.
0:37:52 > 0:37:56Nobody is saying - what is going on with our parliamentarians that this
0:37:56 > 0:38:01is an institution this thinks n2017, this is still acceptable, with MPs
0:38:01 > 0:38:05yesterday saying - poor us we are now a witchhunt. They've got to get
0:38:05 > 0:38:11a grip.Do you think it is a witch hunt?No, I don't think it is. There
0:38:11 > 0:38:15are deleerly MPs that are behaving very inappropriately and those
0:38:15 > 0:38:20individuals need to be held to account, taken to task, and if it
0:38:20 > 0:38:24means they lose their ministerial job, so be it.Do you know - the
0:38:24 > 0:38:29allegations have been made, you are a former whip, did you have
0:38:29 > 0:38:32information on individual MPs relating to any sexual misconduct.
0:38:32 > 0:38:35Clearly there is a flow of information all the time into the
0:38:35 > 0:38:39whip's off. Some of it will be to do with things outside of sexual nature
0:38:39 > 0:38:43and some of it will be to do with sexual harassment and other things.
0:38:43 > 0:38:48Now it is up to the Chief Whip then to take the action that he deems
0:38:48 > 0:38:53appropriate but it is not really - the whip's system is not fit for
0:38:53 > 0:38:57purpose in terms of dealing with employee matters.Except you have
0:38:57 > 0:39:02had, then, information that could be used.If it's appropriate to report
0:39:02 > 0:39:05that information to the police, I'm sure the Chief Whip would do that.
0:39:05 > 0:39:10Do you believe there is aaway list of of names of MPs and ministers who
0:39:10 > 0:39:16are of concern?Yes.Right. Final word to you, Louise, before I move
0:39:16 > 0:39:21onCan I just say before I say that, this is not something that is to do
0:39:21 > 0:39:25with the Conservative Party or Conservative MPs, this is across all
0:39:25 > 0:39:29political parties and all aspects of business in this country.Well very
0:39:29 > 0:39:33briefly. The key difference is - you are parliamentarians that people go
0:39:33 > 0:39:38out and vote for and you govern our country, so your behaviours, as a
0:39:38 > 0:39:42set of individuals, should be above reproach and it has not been beyond
0:39:42 > 0:39:46reproach.I agree with that.Thank you for coming in. To make it clear,
0:39:46 > 0:39:52since we are in the business of accuracy, the knee-touching incident
0:39:52 > 0:39:54didn't take place during a radio interview, it was during a dinner.
0:39:54 > 0:39:58Just for clarity.
0:39:58 > 0:40:01Now, at the end of last year Louise Casey produced a report
0:40:01 > 0:40:03following her comprehensive review of social integration in the UK.
0:40:03 > 0:40:05She found, perhaps unsurprisingly, that the gaps between different
0:40:05 > 0:40:07ethnic and social groups are still large and that
0:40:07 > 0:40:10in some places ethnic segregation is on the rise.
0:40:10 > 0:40:12While women from certain communities are suffering huge inequalities.
0:40:12 > 0:40:14As part of her review she made a number of recommendations,
0:40:14 > 0:40:17and we'll be talking to her about those in a moment,
0:40:17 > 0:40:24but fist Elizabeth Glinka has been to Birmingham to find out more.
0:40:24 > 0:40:31September, 1985, in the Handsworth area of Birmingham. Record levels of
0:40:31 > 0:40:35unemployment and tensions between disenfranchised black youths and
0:40:35 > 0:40:38recently arrived Asian immigrants spilled over into rioting. The
0:40:38 > 0:40:42police force moves in with a massive show of force. Two men burnt to
0:40:42 > 0:40:46death in their shops. Many more people are injured. The city is
0:40:46 > 0:40:51divided.White people keep in their area and we keep in ours. We don't
0:40:51 > 0:40:56go in their territory and they don't normally come in our territory.
0:40:56 > 0:41:01That's the way it works out really. 30 years on and this is the Soho
0:41:01 > 0:41:09Road. It is a multicultural community here with people of all
0:41:09 > 0:41:12backgrounds living side by side. But it is said this the the exception
0:41:12 > 0:41:16and not the rule and that Birmingham, like many towns and
0:41:16 > 0:41:20cities is more divided. Desmond is a community activist. He says despite
0:41:20 > 0:41:24huge efforts over the last 30 years, he recognises many of the findings
0:41:24 > 0:41:29of the review. His concern is that not enough action is being taken to
0:41:29 > 0:41:34change thingsIt's very sad. I'm one of the people that witnessed what
0:41:34 > 0:41:38happened in 1985. In Handsworth, particularly, you will see, you
0:41:38 > 0:41:46know, when events are going on, etc, everyone is there from all different
0:41:46 > 0:41:49backgrounds but it is not reflected acombroms. In terms of cohesion, you
0:41:49 > 0:41:57have had a lot of reports done but they have been put on a shelf and
0:41:57 > 0:42:06never acted upon.Across the UK, people live in pockets of is he
0:42:06 > 0:42:08regachlingts Blackburn, burn lane Bradford all have wards where more
0:42:08 > 0:42:12than three-quarters of the population are of Muslim origin. It
0:42:12 > 0:42:15means that some children are attending schools with little
0:42:15 > 0:42:20opportunity of meeting pew you ils from different backgrounds. Just a
0:42:20 > 0:42:26few miles south of Handsworth is one of five wards of the vast majority
0:42:26 > 0:42:32of Pakistani Muslims. For those working to prevent segregation, it
0:42:32 > 0:42:35is not hard to understand.People generally flock together, where you
0:42:35 > 0:42:41try to find a sense of belonging and identity and similarity. So from
0:42:41 > 0:42:48then, I think what has happened is that people have continued, and
0:42:48 > 0:42:52rather than moving out, they are in the pockets.Are there particular
0:42:52 > 0:42:55barriers for women?Many feel - this is what the women have said to me,
0:42:55 > 0:43:00they feel it is not worth the evident. It is not worth the battle
0:43:00 > 0:43:04because we end up getting abused. We are not supported. There is not
0:43:04 > 0:43:09enough speaking out for us and we're just beaten down. So they step back,
0:43:09 > 0:43:16retreat and just carry on as they have done over the years.With
0:43:16 > 0:43:25separation deeply engrained in some migrant communities, for both social
0:43:25 > 0:43:29and economic reasons, there is a change when it comes to Bert
0:43:29 > 0:43:31integrating our towns and cities. -- better.
0:43:31 > 0:43:34And I'm joined now by Dr Amra Bone, who the first female
0:43:34 > 0:43:36Sharia Council judge in the UK.
0:43:36 > 0:43:41Welcome to the Daily Politics. The last time Louise you were on the
0:43:41 > 0:43:46programme you said is he regracing and exclusion were at worrying
0:43:46 > 0:43:51levels -- segregation. And you called for the government to work on
0:43:51 > 0:43:55this. Your report called on Muslim communities more than other
0:43:55 > 0:44:00communities. Is that fair?Yes, the levels of highest unemployment for
0:44:00 > 0:44:03women and men, in terms of the types of jobs those communities have
0:44:03 > 0:44:08access to are very different. The issue about economic activity in
0:44:08 > 0:44:12women, particularly in Pakistani heritage and Bangladeshi heritage
0:44:12 > 0:44:16communities, is significantly different to other either religious
0:44:16 > 0:44:23or ethnic minorities, and, for example, English not being language
0:44:23 > 0:44:26spoken in those communities is greater T doesn't mean to say there
0:44:26 > 0:44:29aren't issue in the other communities and the 200-page report
0:44:29 > 0:44:33makes that very, very clear but it would be undeniable to say that we
0:44:33 > 0:44:36have to give more help and reach greater into those communities than
0:44:36 > 0:44:40others.Do you agree with that description of Muslim communities?
0:44:40 > 0:44:44Muslim communities from my experience are not very happy at
0:44:44 > 0:44:48being singled out because there is a number of factors here. It is not
0:44:48 > 0:44:53just because they happen to be Muslims. I remember growing up in an
0:44:53 > 0:45:01area where there was white flight and as a Muslim, you didn't chose to
0:45:01 > 0:45:05be separated but it happened. Now there is a change of pace and Muslim
0:45:05 > 0:45:07families generally have more children than others and I think we
0:45:07 > 0:45:11have to understand the demographic changes, what is going on, rather
0:45:11 > 0:45:19than just because they happen to be Muslims. And poverty is another link
0:45:19 > 0:45:23why Muslims or people of particular ethnicity tend to be in those areas
0:45:23 > 0:45:27and I personally know that a huge number of people have moved out into
0:45:27 > 0:45:33suburban areas. There are plenty of lawyers, doctors and engineering and
0:45:33 > 0:45:35council r os that are working themselves to support their own
0:45:35 > 0:45:40children.
0:45:40 > 0:45:44To go back to what you were saying, is it an accurate picture of what is
0:45:44 > 0:45:48happening because they are Muslims? It is not necessarily because of
0:45:48 > 0:45:52religion and, it could be because of ethnicity and immigration patterns
0:45:52 > 0:45:57and as you said, the fastest-growing religious minority because of birth
0:45:57 > 0:46:02rate is within that community. But the fact is, where I think we would
0:46:02 > 0:46:06agree, is that those communities are poorer on the whole, living in poor
0:46:06 > 0:46:11housing with less access to jobs and not doing as well as other groups in
0:46:11 > 0:46:15terms of universities. There are plenty of examples and I met huge
0:46:15 > 0:46:18numbers of people who have made it through the system but if we were
0:46:18 > 0:46:21talking about black young men for example, and we do regularly, we
0:46:21 > 0:46:28know that at the age of 11, black young boys start trailing off in
0:46:28 > 0:46:33school and the unemployment rate is 35% as opposed to their white
0:46:33 > 0:46:36counterparts being at 17% and we don't have a problem talking about
0:46:36 > 0:46:39it, we don't do enough about it but we don't have a problem talking
0:46:39 > 0:46:45about it.So why do you have a problem with for example discussing
0:46:45 > 0:46:49some Muslim women being denied their basic rights as British residents?I
0:46:49 > 0:46:54think if we looked at women largely, we have recently had a report come
0:46:54 > 0:47:03out in the Guardian about women, 52% being sexually harassed, groped,
0:47:03 > 0:47:07even raped in the workplace and that is a huge number and that goes all
0:47:07 > 0:47:12across the board.Do you think it does not merit discussion even about
0:47:12 > 0:47:16Muslim women?I'm not saying that, I do a lot of work in the community
0:47:16 > 0:47:23where I highlight that God has given dignity to us as human beings, men
0:47:23 > 0:47:26and women equally, and we need to respect each other's views and give
0:47:26 > 0:47:35equality. I think what we're doing, that fear that has been created,
0:47:35 > 0:47:42people are playing into that. We have a huge number of right-wing
0:47:42 > 0:47:49extremists now, as Tim Farron pointed out, because of the
0:47:49 > 0:47:52government concentrating on Muslim extremist they have largely ignored
0:47:52 > 0:47:58the white extremists which is in fact creating a ground for more
0:47:58 > 0:48:00attacks.Although the numbers of course, although you are right,
0:48:00 > 0:48:04there has been an increase in the numbers of white extremists, the
0:48:04 > 0:48:10numbers are still large larger in terms of Muslim fundamentalists.
0:48:10 > 0:48:16Your report, with women being held back in progressive cultural
0:48:16 > 0:48:21practices, what are those practices? The fact that women are not able to
0:48:21 > 0:48:24get access to being able to speak English for example. I did not have
0:48:24 > 0:48:28to work very hard in places like Birmingham to find countless women
0:48:28 > 0:48:32who, if they were not allowed out of their home, they would only be
0:48:32 > 0:48:37allowed out to go to various classes that could not be around English or
0:48:37 > 0:48:42indeed emancipation. I also have a problem with some Sharia councils
0:48:42 > 0:48:45and courts because they are creating, I know that is a tough
0:48:45 > 0:48:50thing to say to dip in your position, but they are creating
0:48:50 > 0:48:53alternative legal system that has no standing in British society and a
0:48:53 > 0:48:57woman thinking she is married when she is not and does not have the
0:48:57 > 0:49:01same right that I would have. I think all of those things start to
0:49:01 > 0:49:04subjugate women and to be fair, I was quite shocked by that in terms
0:49:04 > 0:49:13of those particular communities.Why does Sharia law have a place here?
0:49:13 > 0:49:19As human beings everyone has a right to practice their faith. Since
0:49:19 > 0:49:26Christianity had no divorce, people could divorce in the civil law but
0:49:26 > 0:49:30Judaism and Islam has always had this concept so people want to live
0:49:30 > 0:49:35by their faith as well as the law of the land. As a Muslim I should live
0:49:35 > 0:49:41by the law of the land and I do, but those who have a religious Marist,
0:49:41 > 0:49:46they have no records to be civil courts. Sharia councils are
0:49:46 > 0:49:49voluntary, it is up to people if they want to come -- religious
0:49:49 > 0:49:56marriage. That is why they exist, to help the women and if we want women
0:49:56 > 0:50:02to be contributing in our society and want them to be free of any
0:50:02 > 0:50:04problems and issues they are having within themselves, we need to have
0:50:04 > 0:50:10that, marriage to be resolved and dissolved and to move on and to be
0:50:10 > 0:50:15full members and integrated in our society pulls up and yet it seems
0:50:15 > 0:50:20like Muslims cannot win no matter what, they are castigated, they
0:50:20 > 0:50:25integrate or don't.I am going to have to stop, thank you for coming
0:50:25 > 0:50:26in.
0:50:26 > 0:50:28The government is facing questions over how it will deal
0:50:28 > 0:50:31with the case of a 21-year-old man from Oxford who has been captured
0:50:31 > 0:50:35as an IS suspect in Syria.
0:50:35 > 0:50:38Jack Letts travelled to IS territory aged just 18 and was nicknamed
0:50:38 > 0:50:40"Jihadi Jack" by British newspapers.
0:50:40 > 0:50:43But he is now a prisoner of war there, and could be handed over
0:50:43 > 0:50:45to British authorities.
0:50:45 > 0:50:48In a moment we'll hear from Jack's local MP,
0:50:48 > 0:50:54but first here's Emma Vardy.
0:50:54 > 0:51:00When Jack Letts, a middle class boy from Oxford, ran off to live in
0:51:00 > 0:51:02so-called Islamic State he was suspected of being the first white
0:51:02 > 0:51:03British man to join IS.
0:51:03 > 0:51:05Now, two-and-a-half years later, he says
0:51:05 > 0:51:12he's travelled all over IS territory in both Syria and Iraq.
0:51:12 > 0:51:15In May this year, Jack Letts communicated with
0:51:15 > 0:51:17the BBC, using the enscripted app Telegram and claimed he'd fallen out
0:51:17 > 0:51:19with IS.
0:51:19 > 0:51:23I first I thought they were on the truce.
0:51:23 > 0:51:25And then I realised they weren't upon the truthe, so they
0:51:25 > 0:51:28put me in prison three times, and threatened to kill me
0:51:28 > 0:51:30and the second and third time I actually escaped
0:51:30 > 0:51:31from prison.
0:51:31 > 0:51:35After leaving IS territory, Jack Letts was arrested
0:51:35 > 0:51:37by the Kurdish militia, the YPG who've been fighting
0:51:37 > 0:51:39against IS in northern Syria.
0:51:39 > 0:51:44Firstly, we were going to go to the territories for a bit and
0:51:44 > 0:51:47then continue to Turkey and as soon as we got
0:51:47 > 0:51:49here, we got arrested and put in prison.
0:51:49 > 0:51:51After that I was in solitary confinement until now.
0:51:51 > 0:51:52I still am.
0:51:52 > 0:51:55Jack Letts' parents are due to stand trial, accused of
0:51:55 > 0:51:57sending their son money for terrorist purposes, which they deny.
0:51:57 > 0:52:02They've been calling for the British Government to help get Jack
0:52:02 > 0:52:03back to the UK.
0:52:03 > 0:52:06He's been able to tell us where he is and who he's
0:52:06 > 0:52:09with, the group he's with and we've been trying to contact the Foreign
0:52:09 > 0:52:13Office to help us.
0:52:13 > 0:52:17You know, get him out, really.
0:52:17 > 0:52:19Jack's parents have also now been in contact with
0:52:19 > 0:52:25Amnesty International and say they fear he's being tortured.
0:52:25 > 0:52:32Well, Amnesty International are concerned about
0:52:32 > 0:52:35the reports that he has been kept in poor conditions, he is not allowed
0:52:35 > 0:52:38out to exercise and denied food and medical treatment.
0:52:38 > 0:52:41Jack Letts, like any prisoner, should be afforded the
0:52:41 > 0:52:44proper treatment that would meet international standards.
0:52:44 > 0:52:49Kurdish officials have strongly refuted any
0:52:49 > 0:52:51allegations of mistreatment, saying they respect international human
0:52:51 > 0:52:54rights and have treated Jack Letts in accordance with the Geneva
0:52:54 > 0:52:56Convention.
0:52:56 > 0:52:58In a statement they've said they are willing to hand over
0:52:58 > 0:53:06prisoners of war to their original country
0:53:06 > 0:53:09but that for Jack Letts, a dual British and Canadian citizen,
0:53:09 > 0:53:11there had been no official request from either the British
0:53:11 > 0:53:14or Canadian governments.
0:53:14 > 0:53:16The Foreign Office won't comment on Jack Letts' case,
0:53:16 > 0:53:18except to say it cannot provide any assistance
0:53:18 > 0:53:19to British nationals in Syria.
0:53:19 > 0:53:23Last week, Foreign Office Minister Rory Stewart said he
0:53:23 > 0:53:26believed any IS suspects left alive in Syria are dangerous and should be
0:53:26 > 0:53:33killed, but other ministers disagree.
0:53:33 > 0:53:35They say the preference would be for IS suspects to be returned
0:53:35 > 0:53:37to the UK to face prosecution.
0:53:37 > 0:53:39The case of Jack Letts highlights the dilemma
0:53:39 > 0:53:44facing authorities over what to do about British citizens left in Syria
0:53:44 > 0:53:49now that IS are being defeated, and it is unclear what evidence
0:53:49 > 0:53:51exists about the true nature of Jack Letts'
0:53:51 > 0:53:54activities in the war zone.
0:53:54 > 0:54:00We're joined now by Jack Letts' MP, Anneliese Dodds.
0:54:00 > 0:54:04Should he be returned and face prosecution here?That is the big
0:54:04 > 0:54:07question, I don't think it is whether we should just let people
0:54:07 > 0:54:10come back without any kind of comeback when they are here, they
0:54:10 > 0:54:13would obviously need to face prosecution and we would need to
0:54:13 > 0:54:19find out if he was indeed a fighter as had been claimed. It is not about
0:54:19 > 0:54:22impunity but ultimately jack is one of a number of different people who
0:54:22 > 0:54:26are either going to languish in jail without any judicial process which
0:54:26 > 0:54:30is effectively what is happening or they will have to come back and I
0:54:30 > 0:54:34think the government needs to bite the bullet on this.He went of his
0:54:34 > 0:54:37own accord, is it not right that he should face whatever judicial
0:54:37 > 0:54:42process there is in the region?I think there are a number of
0:54:42 > 0:54:45questions about what is going on within that prison and whether there
0:54:45 > 0:54:50is a normal judicial process that is becoming but I think the expectation
0:54:50 > 0:54:55of the Kurdish side there is that the countries of origin will be
0:54:55 > 0:55:00dealing with any prisoners of war, and they have made quite clear last
0:55:00 > 0:55:07weekend that they were expecting Britain or Canada to make overtures
0:55:07 > 0:55:13to them about and over and that has not happened.Should British
0:55:13 > 0:55:19citizens, he has dual nationality, but should British citizens have
0:55:19 > 0:55:22their citizenship revoked question of if we want to go down that road
0:55:22 > 0:55:26it can be debated in Parliament and the decision in Parliament.The
0:55:26 > 0:55:32problem with Jack Letts and his situation is he is in a Catch-22
0:55:32 > 0:55:36according to existing law. This came up in the clip we heard, his parents
0:55:36 > 0:55:42have been told that he is only going to be able to be dealt with by the
0:55:42 > 0:55:46British government when he leaves Syria but he can't leave because he
0:55:46 > 0:55:51is in jail. It is a slightly strange anomaly.Apart from Kurdish
0:55:51 > 0:55:55officials are keen for him to be returned.But at the moment the
0:55:55 > 0:55:59British state is not willing to facilitate that.Should they?I
0:55:59 > 0:56:06think there is a prima facie argued for saying that we should...But the
0:56:06 > 0:56:11problem is that there is not always enough evidence, or you cannot
0:56:11 > 0:56:14gather enough evidence from a conflict zone in order to prosecute
0:56:14 > 0:56:20him in the UK. That's a problem.And ultimately that is a problem who
0:56:20 > 0:56:23could affect people who have been accused of different crimes in a
0:56:23 > 0:56:27number of different countries, I don't think it is unique to this
0:56:27 > 0:56:31situation.It is unique if you go out and allegedly fight for IS
0:56:31 > 0:56:37macro. What other comparison is there?Let's be clear, I am not
0:56:37 > 0:56:41defending anything he may or may not have done and I'm not standing in
0:56:41 > 0:56:46judgment over him, I'm his constituency MP and his parents MP
0:56:46 > 0:56:51and they have raised a legitimate concern which is that people like
0:56:51 > 0:56:55him are caught in this limbo where the expectation of the Kurdish side
0:56:55 > 0:56:58is that the home country will be asking for their citizens but the
0:56:58 > 0:57:02British government has not done that. I think there are legitimate
0:57:02 > 0:57:05questions to be asked why the British government has not asked.
0:57:05 > 0:57:08Come back and tell us what happens. Thank you.
0:57:08 > 0:57:11There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.
0:57:11 > 0:57:14The question was, which ghost is said to haunt Number 10.
0:57:14 > 0:57:15Was it...
0:57:15 > 0:57:18A) The lady in white who wonders between the state dining rooms.
0:57:18 > 0:57:20B) The ghost of Humphrey, former Downing Street cat.
0:57:20 > 0:57:23C) The phantom policeman who keeps watch over British Prime Ministers.
0:57:23 > 0:57:24D) The spirit of Jean Claude Juncker.
0:57:24 > 0:57:27So, Louise, what's the correct answer?
0:57:27 > 0:57:33I think it is the first one.And you are correct, well done! There are no
0:57:33 > 0:57:33prizes I'm afraid.
0:57:33 > 0:57:35We're joined now by the story-teller Naomi Paxton.
0:57:35 > 0:57:40All the stories she tells are entirely true.
0:57:40 > 0:57:44There she is, dressed for the occasion so tell us some haunted
0:57:44 > 0:57:48tales about Westminster.There are very few tales about the actual
0:57:48 > 0:57:51estate but ten Downing St is particularly ordered, not only with
0:57:51 > 0:57:55the lady in white but there is a spectral girl in a basement, a man
0:57:55 > 0:57:59with a top hat who walks through the locked front door and even some
0:57:59 > 0:58:03strange sound on the back rooms. The other haunted place is the Norman
0:58:03 > 0:58:07Shaw building which is now administrative officers but used to
0:58:07 > 0:58:11be where Scotland Yard was in the 1880s and the sight of the famous
0:58:11 > 0:58:14black museum where apparently people have seen a headless woman in a long
0:58:14 > 0:58:19cloak room in the corridors!Have you ever seen anything in any of
0:58:19 > 0:58:23these places?Not personally but I'm open to all experiences.But you
0:58:23 > 0:58:31believe it all?I believe if the -- I believe it if it's fun!There is
0:58:31 > 0:58:37no doubt that the Palace of Westminster is a perfect backdrop
0:58:37 > 0:58:41for scary tales as well as number ten, all of those dark corridors.
0:58:41 > 0:58:47Give us a sense of what it is like in terms of spookiness.There are a
0:58:47 > 0:58:51lot of doc corridors with wind whistling through, the tall
0:58:51 > 0:58:55buildings and the paintings and statues and the ornate dressings and
0:58:55 > 0:58:58soft furnishings. You can sometimes turn around and wonder if you have
0:58:58 > 0:59:04heard a footstep behind you to see the severe face of a Prime Minister
0:59:04 > 0:59:13from the past!Are you very scared? No!Why not?! You have do play
0:59:13 > 0:59:17along! That has ruined it. Thank you for coming on and happy Halloween.
0:59:17 > 0:59:18That's all for today.
0:59:18 > 0:59:23Thanks to our guests.
0:59:23 > 0:59:27Particularly to Louise Casey even if she is not scared. Andrew will be
0:59:27 > 0:59:29here tomorrow at 11:30am. By buying.
0:59:32 > 0:59:32Goodbye.