0:00:37 > 0:00:40Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
0:00:40 > 0:00:43The Prime Minister calls for a "new culture of respect" ahead
0:00:43 > 0:00:45of a meeting with other party leaders to discuss the Westminster
0:00:45 > 0:00:48sexual misconduct scandal.
0:00:48 > 0:00:53But are the party leaders getting to grips with the problem?
0:00:53 > 0:00:56Lord Ashcroft, former Conservative Party Deputy
0:00:56 > 0:00:59chairman and party donor, faces fresh questions about his tax
0:00:59 > 0:01:03affairs following a huge leak of financial documents,
0:01:03 > 0:01:06known as the Paradise Papers.
0:01:06 > 0:01:10We'll be discussing the Government's industrial strategy
0:01:10 > 0:01:13and the progress of Brexit talks with the Director General of the
0:01:13 > 0:01:15business lobbying group, the CBI.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18And should we give money to people street beggars?
0:01:18 > 0:01:21One activist tells us it's time to rethink our attitudes to those
0:01:21 > 0:01:29who find themselves homeless on the streets.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32All that in the next hour.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35And with us for the whole programme today is the Conservative MP,
0:01:35 > 0:01:39Alex Burghart, and the Labour MP, Liz Kendall.
0:01:39 > 0:01:44Now, despite being on opposite sides of the aisle, Alex and Liz have one
0:01:44 > 0:01:47crucial thing in common.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49They've both gone up against Jeremy Corbyn in an election.
0:01:49 > 0:01:52As you probably know, in 2015, Liz was one of the unsuccessful
0:01:52 > 0:01:55candidates in the Labour leadership election which was of course
0:01:55 > 0:01:57won by Jeremy Corbyn.
0:01:57 > 0:02:00But what you probably didn't know was that, earlier that year,
0:02:00 > 0:02:03Alex was the Conservative candidate in Islington North up against...
0:02:03 > 0:02:06Yes, Jeremy Corbyn!
0:02:06 > 0:02:10We're glad to say Alex had more success as the candidate
0:02:10 > 0:02:14in Brentwood and Ongar in June, which is why he can join us today.
0:02:14 > 0:02:15Welcome to you both!
0:02:15 > 0:02:18Labour has renewed calls for a public inquiry into tax
0:02:18 > 0:02:20avoidance after a massive leak of secret documents detailing
0:02:20 > 0:02:24the financial affairs of the global super rich.
0:02:24 > 0:02:29The leak, dubbed the Paradise Papers, contains 13.4 million
0:02:29 > 0:02:35documents, mostly from one leading firm in offshore finance.
0:02:35 > 0:02:37In UK political circles, fresh questions have been raised
0:02:37 > 0:02:43about the tax affairs of the former Conservative donor Lord Ashcroft.
0:02:43 > 0:02:45The papers suggest he may have ignored rules around how his
0:02:45 > 0:02:48offshore investments were managed.
0:02:48 > 0:02:50Other papers suggest he retained his non-dom status
0:02:50 > 0:02:54while in the House of Lords, despite reports he had become
0:02:54 > 0:02:59a permanent tax resident in the UK.
0:02:59 > 0:03:02Well, the BBC's Panorama programme which is reporting on the leak tried
0:03:02 > 0:03:04to interview Lord Ashcroft at the recent Conservative
0:03:04 > 0:03:08Party Conference.
0:03:08 > 0:03:09Lord Ashcroft, hi, I'm Richard Bilton,
0:03:09 > 0:03:11I work for Panorama.
0:03:11 > 0:03:13Sir, could I grab a quick word with you?
0:03:13 > 0:03:17I have been trying to send you these letters, but you wouldn't take them.
0:03:17 > 0:03:19Sir, could I just have a quick word with you?
0:03:19 > 0:03:22Did you have tens of millions in an off-shore trust that
0:03:22 > 0:03:23you secretly control, sir?
0:03:23 > 0:03:26Did that mean you could avoid millions in tax through that trust?
0:03:26 > 0:03:28Lord Ashcroft, would you just talk to me?
0:03:28 > 0:03:29It would be great to hear your view.
0:03:29 > 0:03:31It was the Punta Gorda Trust, Lord Ashcroft.
0:03:31 > 0:03:33Sir, the Punta Gorda Trust...
0:03:33 > 0:03:34Dear, dear, dear.
0:03:34 > 0:03:35"Dear, dear", is that your response?
0:03:35 > 0:03:37It was the Punta Gorda Trust.
0:03:37 > 0:03:38Sir, where we are going?
0:03:38 > 0:03:39This is amazing.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42We have been walking now more about two minutes, why don't
0:03:42 > 0:03:44you just give me your views?
0:03:44 > 0:03:48We could have been sponsored, we have done about a mile-and-a-half.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51Sir, why don't you just tell me your view, it would be
0:03:51 > 0:03:52really nice to get your view.
0:03:52 > 0:03:53Sir...
0:03:53 > 0:04:03No, sir, just give me your view, did you sir secretly a control
0:04:03 > 0:04:06-- a trust in which you had tens of millions and therefore
0:04:06 > 0:04:07avoiding tax, sir?
0:04:07 > 0:04:08Did you do that?
0:04:08 > 0:04:10Did you do that, sir?
0:04:10 > 0:04:11It would be great to know.
0:04:11 > 0:04:12Where are we going?
0:04:12 > 0:04:13This is brilliant.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15I don't know where we're going to end up.
0:04:15 > 0:04:16Dear, dear, dear.
0:04:16 > 0:04:22I'm not going to follow you in there, sir.
0:04:22 > 0:04:26Michael Ashcroft struggling to find the exit. We did a full tour of the
0:04:26 > 0:04:28floor.
0:04:28 > 0:04:30Well, we put a call in to Conservative Central Office
0:04:30 > 0:04:33this morning to ask if they wanted to respond to the leaks
0:04:33 > 0:04:35about Lord Ashcroft, but we have received no response.
0:04:35 > 0:04:40And his spokesman says he has not done anything illegal.
0:04:40 > 0:04:44Should he face an investigation by HMRC in light of the leaked
0:04:44 > 0:04:48documents?I understand that HMOs see have asked to see all the
0:04:48 > 0:04:54Paradise papers to see if there has been any wrongdoing. -- the HMRC. I
0:04:54 > 0:05:00do not want to speculate on individual cases. The Government
0:05:00 > 0:05:04takes tax evasion very seriously. You said tax evasion.That is
0:05:04 > 0:05:14illegal.And aggressive.What you as that? We have brought in an extra
0:05:14 > 0:05:19£160 billion by clamping down on all of this sort of thing. We have one
0:05:19 > 0:05:24of the narrowest tax gaps anywhere in the world that has happened under
0:05:24 > 0:05:27a Conservative government over the past seven years because we want to
0:05:27 > 0:05:34get more money to put into public services.The leaked papers Lord
0:05:34 > 0:05:37Ashcroft ignored rules around the management of his offshore
0:05:37 > 0:05:41investments for the it is not illegal to have offshore investments
0:05:41 > 0:05:45but if the rules around them are ignored and tax is not paid that is
0:05:45 > 0:05:53rightfully owed? Should he be questioned?The HMRC has asked for
0:05:53 > 0:06:02all the papers.It is not illegal to use offshore tax havens. What is
0:06:02 > 0:06:07Labour calling for?There should be a public register of who owns what
0:06:07 > 0:06:14in all of our overseas territories and secondly we need much tougher
0:06:14 > 0:06:19regulation and enforcement. I would like to see all of the advisers, the
0:06:19 > 0:06:23lawyers, the accountants, held responsible and accountable should
0:06:23 > 0:06:27any of the schemes they have proposed turn out to be illegal. We
0:06:27 > 0:06:31also need to do more to reach international agreement. We have
0:06:31 > 0:06:36been here before and we need to see the action happening now.Would you
0:06:36 > 0:06:40like to stop investors like the Duchy of Lancaster putting money
0:06:40 > 0:06:48into non-UK fans?The issue here is that the Queen has been badly
0:06:48 > 0:06:52advised of what strikes me as the real issue is they thought it would
0:06:52 > 0:06:57be access to ball. There are megabucks in tax havens. Some of it
0:06:57 > 0:07:03is evasion, some of it is avoidance, and some of it is money-laundering.
0:07:03 > 0:07:11Do you want those investments to stop?I want to see a full public
0:07:11 > 0:07:18disclosure of who owns those trusts, those companies, and any other
0:07:18 > 0:07:21corporate identity. I want to see much tougher regulation and
0:07:21 > 0:07:26enforcement. That is what we do know straightaway and we need to see
0:07:26 > 0:07:32action. Aye after the Panama papers, George Osborne said a blacklist of
0:07:32 > 0:07:39tax havens should be created. -- After the Panama papers. What else
0:07:39 > 0:07:48has the Government done to crackdown on aggressive tax avoidance?We have
0:07:48 > 0:07:52spearheaded work with 100 other nations. There is much greater
0:07:52 > 0:07:55transparency than there has ever been before. We have to be extreme
0:07:55 > 0:08:02heat careful that we don't necessarily drive investment out of
0:08:02 > 0:08:05this country.John McDonnell, the Shadow Chancellor, spoke at the
0:08:05 > 0:08:09weekend about Labour run Preston Council as a model for keeping
0:08:09 > 0:08:14wealth in the city. Reports show they have nearly £12 million
0:08:14 > 0:08:20invested overseas. Is there anything wrong with that?My concern is about
0:08:20 > 0:08:25people not just evading tax but also avoiding it. If you believe in a
0:08:25 > 0:08:31fairer society, people have to pay their fair share of tax?How do you
0:08:31 > 0:08:36legislate for that?I would argue that wealth inequalities are a
0:08:36 > 0:08:43serious problem for our economy and society. Tax havens are
0:08:43 > 0:08:47turbo-charging deep inequalities.I still do not have from you where you
0:08:47 > 0:08:52would draw the line on that. The previous Conservative government did
0:08:52 > 0:08:55talk about aggressive tax avoidance full stop unless you make it
0:08:55 > 0:09:01illegal, the line would be blurred. Why are people putting money into
0:09:01 > 0:09:05these countries?They want to maximise their profits.It is to
0:09:05 > 0:09:11minimise their payment of tax. If you believe in paying your fair
0:09:11 > 0:09:15share of tax, putting it into your school and public services, the
0:09:15 > 0:09:22infrastructure helping the economy create these services in the first
0:09:22 > 0:09:26place... I don't know about that example was that is the first I have
0:09:26 > 0:09:31heard about it today. I believe that Britain is at the heart of the tax
0:09:31 > 0:09:36haven problem. Unless we take action...The Conservatives have
0:09:36 > 0:09:39been in government for seven years we are still talking about this
0:09:39 > 0:09:46subject.We have taken another £160 billion in tax otherwise we would
0:09:46 > 0:09:52not have taken. We have ploughed more money into HMRC. This is it
0:09:52 > 0:09:56good news story insofar as we have been making improvements since 2010
0:09:56 > 0:10:01and are committed to making further improvements.You have not make good
0:10:01 > 0:10:07on the pledge by David Cameron.We have substantially improved on
0:10:07 > 0:10:17things as they were in 2010.Cameron committed in 2010, 2013, 2014.We
0:10:17 > 0:10:23have said that the onus of companies, the beneficiaries of
0:10:23 > 0:10:27those companies have to be identified rather than hiding the
0:10:27 > 0:10:32hind shell companies. There are lots of things we are doing. -- hiding
0:10:32 > 0:10:36behind shell companies.
0:10:36 > 0:10:39Theresa May has called for a "new culture of respect" ahead
0:10:39 > 0:10:41of a meeting with other party leaders to discuss the Westminster
0:10:41 > 0:10:42sexual misconduct scandal.
0:10:42 > 0:10:45Fresh allegations have been made to the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire
0:10:45 > 0:10:47programme this morning about a former Conservative Party
0:10:47 > 0:10:48activist claiming her allegations of rape were ignored
0:10:48 > 0:10:49by the Parliamentary authorities.
0:10:49 > 0:10:53The woman claims she was raped by someone working for a Tory MP,
0:10:53 > 0:10:56she said went to the police and while the case awaited trial
0:10:56 > 0:10:58she spoke to Commons officials about how she felt
0:10:58 > 0:11:01the "heavy-drinking and sex-driven" culture within Westminster
0:11:01 > 0:11:10had contributed to it.
0:11:10 > 0:11:13The woman said she was led to believe the complaint would be
0:11:13 > 0:11:14passed onto the then Chief Whip Gavin Williamson
0:11:14 > 0:11:17and the leader of the Commons Andrea Leadsom.
0:11:17 > 0:11:19Both Mr Williamson and Mrs Leadsom insist they weren't told
0:11:19 > 0:11:22about the rape claims but Andrea Leadsom admits
0:11:22 > 0:11:27she was told about concerns over the culture at Westminster.
0:11:27 > 0:11:30Elsewhere several Conservative and Labour MPs are being
0:11:30 > 0:11:36investigated over claims of sexual misconduct, and all the party
0:11:36 > 0:11:39leaders in Westminster will be meeting later this afternoon
0:11:39 > 0:11:48to discuss setting up an independent grievance procedure for Parliament.
0:11:48 > 0:11:50Also today the Cabinet inquiry into First Secretary Damian Green's
0:11:50 > 0:11:51behaviour will hear from ex-Metropolitan
0:11:51 > 0:11:52Police Assistant Commissioner
0:11:52 > 0:11:55Bob Quick about allegations that pornography was found
0:11:55 > 0:11:59on his computer by police following an investigation
0:11:59 > 0:12:03into Home Office leaks in 2008.
0:12:03 > 0:12:05For more on that, we're joined by our Home Affairs
0:12:05 > 0:12:09Correspondent, Danny Shaw.
0:12:09 > 0:12:15Can you bring us up to speed on what is going on?Bob quick is preparing
0:12:15 > 0:12:21to give evidence to the inquiry into the conduct of Damian Green. My
0:12:21 > 0:12:25understanding is that some other officers who were involved in that
0:12:25 > 0:12:29very controversial leaks enquiry into Gazza then eight, 2009, are
0:12:29 > 0:12:32also considering whether they will give evidence to the inquiry as
0:12:32 > 0:12:39well. It is looking at several issues relating to Damian Green.
0:12:39 > 0:12:46This is absolutely crucial. Here's the Deputy Prime Minister. Bob
0:12:46 > 0:12:50Quick, the man who oversaw the investigation is a former police
0:12:50 > 0:13:00officer of extremely great repute and high integrity who tackled some
0:13:00 > 0:13:05of the thorniest issues at the time. He is well respected by many
0:13:05 > 0:13:08colleagues and certainly statements that he makes about this clearly
0:13:08 > 0:13:13have to be taken seriously.Damian Green has denied the allegation that
0:13:13 > 0:13:20he has also accused Bob Quick political smears. Has there been a
0:13:20 > 0:13:26direct response to that?Bob Quick says he 100% stands behind the
0:13:26 > 0:13:33account he gave and bears Damian Green no malice at all. The leaks
0:13:33 > 0:13:40enquiry is an uncomfortable time for Scotland to guard and Bob Quick in
0:13:40 > 0:13:46particular. -- Scotland Yard. Bob Quick lost his job after a very
0:13:46 > 0:13:51high-profile blunder when he was photographed carrying sensitive
0:13:51 > 0:13:56documents into Downing Street. It is a difficult time for him. If
0:13:56 > 0:14:00anything he feels anger towards other colleagues in Scotland Yard
0:14:00 > 0:14:04than anything more than he does towards Damian Green. The concern
0:14:04 > 0:14:09here is the use of a Parliamentary computer allegedly to look at
0:14:09 > 0:14:13pornography. That is what we are looking about. There is no
0:14:13 > 0:14:18suggestion that any of the material is illegal but it is the use of a
0:14:18 > 0:14:21work computer essentially to look at pornography. The question of whether
0:14:21 > 0:14:24the allegations were referred to the Parliamentary authorities is
0:14:24 > 0:14:31something that Bob Quick is concerned about.There are concerns
0:14:31 > 0:14:36this could have a serious impact on Damian Green's.It could have. You
0:14:36 > 0:14:44would think they would be records, an infantry of what was found on the
0:14:44 > 0:14:46computers, notes in police officers notebook is about what they
0:14:46 > 0:14:51discovered what action they took, a policy log detailing what they took
0:14:51 > 0:14:56in response to the various alleged fines. Also it is said that a
0:14:56 > 0:15:00computer expert was called in to look at the material. If that is the
0:15:00 > 0:15:05case, it should be documented. It is not about one person's word against
0:15:05 > 0:15:10another. There should be Independent verification to prove or disprove
0:15:10 > 0:15:18the allegations.
0:15:18 > 0:15:21Shut the first secretary state, Damian Green, step down while this
0:15:21 > 0:15:25is going on?I don't want to get into the particular case, but what I
0:15:25 > 0:15:28will say is that Damien has strongly denied
0:15:28 > 0:15:35will say is that Damien has strongly denied all of the allegations. The
0:15:35 > 0:15:38investigation is going on and at the end of it, we will have an answer. I
0:15:38 > 0:15:43don't believe there is suggestion that Damien has broken the law. I'm
0:15:43 > 0:15:47not convinced that he should stand whilst the inquiry goes on, but I
0:15:47 > 0:15:52think we need answers quickly.It is a matter of consistency, Michael
0:15:52 > 0:15:59Fallon resign as Defence Secretary and in the light of allegations made
0:15:59 > 0:16:05against him your colleagues feel that Damian Green should also, to be
0:16:05 > 0:16:08consistent, step down from his influential position while the
0:16:08 > 0:16:12claims are investigated?Michael took a personal decision to resign
0:16:12 > 0:16:15and it's for Damien to make the decision as to whether he is going
0:16:15 > 0:16:19to step aside whilst the inquiry is going on. He doesn't think he has
0:16:19 > 0:16:24done anything wrong. He denies there has been any wrongdoing. I don't
0:16:24 > 0:16:27believe there is an accusation that he has broken the law and so I
0:16:27 > 0:16:30understand he will carry on.So you are happy for him to stay on?
0:16:30 > 0:16:36Personally.The woman interviewed by the BBC today, explained how she
0:16:36 > 0:16:40felt the heavy drinking and sex-driven culture within
0:16:40 > 0:16:43Westminster had can'ted to her alleged attack. I mean she also said
0:16:43 > 0:16:47that women in the bars were being plied with drink and became so drunk
0:16:47 > 0:16:51that they could barely stand up. Is that a characterisation of
0:16:51 > 0:16:55Westminster that you recognise?I don't spend a lot of time in the
0:16:55 > 0:17:00bars to be honest.But you talk to people, is that going on?I do.In
0:17:00 > 0:17:07the way that she describes?I think the real issue is about power and
0:17:07 > 0:17:11the power and influence over your career that people are worried
0:17:11 > 0:17:15about. That's one of the main reasons, people don't come forward
0:17:15 > 0:17:17and report because they're worried the person that they're going to
0:17:17 > 0:17:21report to, might work with the person they are accusing, might be a
0:17:21 > 0:17:25friend of theirs, or just as importantly, a political ally. So,
0:17:25 > 0:17:29they fear they won't be believed. No action will be taken or that their
0:17:29 > 0:17:33future will be damaged as a result. I have no doubt, you know, drinking
0:17:33 > 0:17:37doesn't make any of this stuff any better, but the real issue here, I
0:17:37 > 0:17:42think, is about power and whilst I hope Westminster does take action
0:17:42 > 0:17:46and the party lead, are meeting today, all of the individual
0:17:46 > 0:17:50political parties have to sort their own processes out too.Let's hear
0:17:50 > 0:17:58what the Prime Minister had to say.
0:17:58 > 0:18:01Here is Theresa May.
0:18:01 > 0:18:03Of course people can be friends with their colleagues and
0:18:03 > 0:18:05consensual relationships can develop at work.
0:18:05 > 0:18:07This isn't about prying into private lives.
0:18:07 > 0:18:09What we are talking about is the use and abuse
0:18:09 > 0:18:12of power.
0:18:12 > 0:18:14We must stand up for all the victims of abuse, harassment or
0:18:14 > 0:18:17discrimination, wherever it has occurred.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20Now is the time to act decisively without fear or favour to
0:18:20 > 0:18:22guarantee a safe and respectful working environment for everyone in
0:18:22 > 0:18:30the future.
0:18:30 > 0:18:36You have just become an MP. Are you shocked by what has been emerging
0:18:36 > 0:18:41and unfolding in the past few weeks? I am actually. This is a pretty grim
0:18:41 > 0:18:46time to be working in Westminster. It's not, the stories that are
0:18:46 > 0:18:50coming forward certainly don't represent the world that I have
0:18:50 > 0:18:54worked in so far and many years ago I was a researcher in Parliament, I
0:18:54 > 0:18:57never saw anything going on like this, but obviously, there are
0:18:57 > 0:19:00people who have, you know, had seriously awful experiences and
0:19:00 > 0:19:04those experiences need to be looked into. What I would say to anyone
0:19:04 > 0:19:09listening is that the vast majority of experiences that people have in
0:19:09 > 0:19:13the House of Commons are positive. That there are lots of researchers
0:19:13 > 0:19:19who really enjoy and benefit from working there. Most MPs, I believe,
0:19:19 > 0:19:22are decent upstanding people who want to improve their country. I do
0:19:22 > 0:19:28hope that that will be remembered and I also, but I also believe that
0:19:28 > 0:19:31this, that our Parliament will be a better place once all the
0:19:31 > 0:19:34allegations have been worked through.It is not just what happens
0:19:34 > 0:19:39in Parliament. It is about what happens at all levels of our
0:19:39 > 0:19:43politics, at local councils and I think it is really important that
0:19:43 > 0:19:48every single political party sets up their own independent third party
0:19:48 > 0:19:53system to make the initial complaint, that there is mandatory
0:19:53 > 0:19:59training of staff, of elected representatives, and that there are
0:19:59 > 0:20:01independent experts who actually advice the parties about their
0:20:01 > 0:20:06processes and that the cases that they are looking at.Dawn Butler,
0:20:06 > 0:20:12who is in the Shadow Cabinet, women and Equalities Minister said that
0:20:12 > 0:20:16these robust policies were now in place, but didn't actually say what
0:20:16 > 0:20:22they were. Has an independent third party been set-up to investigate
0:20:22 > 0:20:26claims going forward in the Labour Party? No. . Why not?The parties
0:20:26 > 0:20:28are looking to appoint an independent specialist organisation
0:20:28 > 0:20:33that will be able to give people advice and support. If they make a
0:20:33 > 0:20:37complaint and that will do some training of the staff involved with
0:20:37 > 0:20:40dealing with those processes. I think it is really important that
0:20:40 > 0:20:44people are actually allowed it make their initial complaint to that body
0:20:44 > 0:20:48and that the training, the mandatory safeguarding training needs to
0:20:48 > 0:20:52spread wider. So I think we have made a big step forward, but there
0:20:52 > 0:20:56is more that we need to do.Right, we are talking about codes of
0:20:56 > 0:21:01conduct, codes of conduct are for the parties themselves individually
0:21:01 > 0:21:05and so far they have not shown themselves being able to cope with
0:21:05 > 0:21:09the complaints or pass them on to the relevant authorities. How did
0:21:09 > 0:21:14you feel about Jeremy Corbyn once he had been told about the reprimand
0:21:14 > 0:21:18against Kelvin Hopkins, the Labour MP, months later appointing him to
0:21:18 > 0:21:22the Shadow Cabinet. Was that right? Well, I don't know what Jeremy was
0:21:22 > 0:21:28told or not told.He made it clear, Jeremy Corbyn himself said he did
0:21:28 > 0:21:33know. The Labour Party said both sides admitted they were happy with
0:21:33 > 0:21:38the outcome.It is strange to think if somebody admitted to any form of
0:21:38 > 0:21:42sexual harassment or abuse should have been promoted. We need to have
0:21:42 > 0:21:47action, actions must have consequences whether that is
0:21:47 > 0:21:50suspending the whip, expulsion from the party. I think that's something
0:21:50 > 0:21:53that I would like to see more information about because I think if
0:21:53 > 0:21:57you have admitted to it, I don't know whether Kelvin did or what
0:21:57 > 0:21:59happened, but promotion should not follow.
0:21:59 > 0:22:02Right, well on that basis of what action can actually be taken because
0:22:02 > 0:22:09it is one thing to set-up or improve codes of conduct or to have an
0:22:09 > 0:22:14independent body where people can go and complain, but Michael Fallon,
0:22:14 > 0:22:18admitted his behaviour may have fallen short. He talked about the
0:22:18 > 0:22:21standards of 15, ten to 15 years ago and he has resigned, but he remains
0:22:21 > 0:22:29an MP. He still has his job. Why is it OK to still be an MP Alex, with
0:22:29 > 0:22:32all the responsibilities that that entails, but not Defence Secretary?
0:22:32 > 0:22:37It's a good question, Jo. I think, we are still at the start of a
0:22:37 > 0:22:41process of looking through all of these issues. I think the next
0:22:41 > 0:22:45hurdle for that is five o'clock this afternoon when the Prime Minister is
0:22:45 > 0:22:49convening a meeting of all party leaders to talk about collectively
0:22:49 > 0:22:55what we can do as a political culture to improve things. So this
0:22:55 > 0:23:00is all part of an on going dialogue. You see how it is not illogical
0:23:00 > 0:23:04train of events if you can still keep your job as an MP, but not as a
0:23:04 > 0:23:11minister?Well, you know, obviously your responsibility as an MP and
0:23:11 > 0:23:16minister is different. I would say it was a question for Michael
0:23:16 > 0:23:21Fallon's constituents if they wanted him to carry on.Also it was not
0:23:21 > 0:23:29acceptable 15 years ago. The fact is we are speaking up about it.You can
0:23:29 > 0:23:34suspend an MP and Labour have taken the action, but unless there is a
0:23:34 > 0:23:38criminal prosecution, you can't get rid of them as an MP, is that right?
0:23:38 > 0:23:42There isn't a legal way. Even if they are expelled from the party
0:23:42 > 0:23:47they would remain as an MP. We look at this in the Commons. I think
0:23:47 > 0:23:50investigations have to happen. We can't have trial by media.
0:23:50 > 0:23:52Unfortunately, many people feel that's the only way that they are
0:23:52 > 0:23:57get going to action, but you should be suspended while an investigation
0:23:57 > 0:24:01happens and then there have to be a range of sanctions but there is
0:24:01 > 0:24:05nothing to make people stand down as an MP even if the whip is removed.
0:24:05 > 0:24:09Should there be? How would you explain to constituents when they
0:24:09 > 0:24:13say we have got this person, we found him to have fallen well below
0:24:13 > 0:24:16the standards that we would...The only way to change that if
0:24:16 > 0:24:20Parliament decided that that could happen. I don't think is available.
0:24:20 > 0:24:23What do you think in the light of allegation that have been brought
0:24:23 > 0:24:29forward?Well, there is a range of seriousness here and certainly if
0:24:29 > 0:24:34something goes down a criminal route and you know, in any examples of I
0:24:34 > 0:24:37mean, we haven't had some of the cases that we've heard about rape
0:24:37 > 0:24:41have not been by MP allegations, have not been about MPs, but people
0:24:41 > 0:24:45who work in the party or have worked for them. But I think that the
0:24:45 > 0:24:49parties have to set out quite clearly what the actions and
0:24:49 > 0:24:53sanctions will be and that is one of the things I hoch will be discussed
0:24:53 > 0:24:57today, let me come back to the point. It can't just be about
0:24:57 > 0:25:01Westminster putting in place a proper process. Individual parties
0:25:01 > 0:25:04must do that too because it's not unfortunately just something that
0:25:04 > 0:25:09happens in Parliament. It's everywhere.The Conservative Party's
0:25:09 > 0:25:13new code of conduct covers politics at all levels and covers from the
0:25:13 > 0:25:17most grass-roots...But it doesn't deal with why people don't report
0:25:17 > 0:25:23because they are worried about the internal political bias.It is by
0:25:23 > 0:25:28the refreshing actions that we hope more people will feel empowered to
0:25:28 > 0:25:36come forward in the future.Andrew McDonald, head of IPSA, has said
0:25:36 > 0:25:39that all staff working for members of Parliament should be centrally
0:25:39 > 0:25:42employed. Do you think that would work? Do you think it would take
0:25:42 > 0:25:47away the onus on MPs to employ their own staff?These are all things we
0:25:47 > 0:25:52can look into. At the moment obviously, the researchers who work
0:25:52 > 0:25:57for me are employed by me as I'm sure Liz's are.Would it be better
0:25:57 > 0:26:01if they were centrally employed?I don't think it would deal with the
0:26:01 > 0:26:05problem, Jo. Is it going to deal with the fundamental problem and I
0:26:05 > 0:26:16am not sure it would.I agree with.
0:26:17 > 0:26:22Now, Parliament goes on a brief holiday this week with the house
0:26:22 > 0:26:25rising from Tuesday until Monday, so that means no PMQs this week.
0:26:25 > 0:26:27But the wheels of Westminster keep on rolling.
0:26:27 > 0:26:29Let's take a look at the week ahead.
0:26:29 > 0:26:31On Tuesday, Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police
0:26:31 > 0:26:33Cressida Dick will face the Home Affairs Select Committee
0:26:33 > 0:26:35for the first time since taking the role.
0:26:35 > 0:26:38She'll be quizzed on the future of policing just a few days
0:26:38 > 0:26:39after criticising funding cuts.
0:26:39 > 0:26:41On Wednesday, the new Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson will meet
0:26:41 > 0:26:44with his NATO counterparts in his first such engagement since
0:26:44 > 0:26:48replacing Michael Fallon last week.
0:26:48 > 0:26:50Afghanistan and Russia are likely to be on the agenda.
0:26:50 > 0:26:52On Thursday, the sixth round of Brexit negotiations
0:26:52 > 0:26:53begin in Brussels.
0:26:53 > 0:26:58Brexit Secretary David Davis is expected to head out on Friday,
0:26:58 > 0:27:04hoping to break the deadlock over the Brexit divorce bill.
0:27:04 > 0:27:07Thursday will also see a brief revival of Big Ben's bells,
0:27:07 > 0:27:10albeit for just four days, in preparation Remembrance
0:27:10 > 0:27:18commemorations this week.
0:27:18 > 0:27:20We're joined now by the Deputy Political Editor
0:27:20 > 0:27:22of the Sunday Times Caroline Wheeler and the Political Editor
0:27:22 > 0:27:25for the New Statesman George Eaton to discuss the weeks top stories.
0:27:25 > 0:27:29Caroline Wheeler, first of all, what do you make of the latest allegation
0:27:29 > 0:27:35that has been made on the BBC against a politician, a Tory
0:27:35 > 0:27:39politician, how much more pressure now is Theresa May in terms of
0:27:39 > 0:27:42getting a grip of this scandal?I think it's one of those scandals
0:27:42 > 0:27:46that it's very difficult to get a grip of because I think what we have
0:27:46 > 0:27:49seen so far is a number of allegations being made whether
0:27:49 > 0:27:54substantiated or not, but in the background I'm aware of a number of
0:27:54 > 0:27:58journalists and MPs even as well as those outside the Westminster bubble
0:27:58 > 0:28:02with stories to tell, who are weighing up whether or not they are
0:28:02 > 0:28:04going to break their cover and break their silence and come forward and
0:28:04 > 0:28:08talk about what they feel has been going on, that's been inappropriate
0:28:08 > 0:28:11within Parliament. So, it is very difficult for any of the party
0:28:11 > 0:28:14leaders to keep a grip on this. They're saying some really warm
0:28:14 > 0:28:18words about how they want to transform the system so that it is
0:28:18 > 0:28:21easier for people to come forward, but it is very difficult when you
0:28:21 > 0:28:26know, we don't know how widespread all of this has been. There are 650
0:28:26 > 0:28:30members of Parliament and who knows how many of them have skeletons in
0:28:30 > 0:28:35their closet.There has been enough leadership from the Prime Minister
0:28:35 > 0:28:40on this, George Eaton. Is did a case it's impossible to know the scale if
0:28:40 > 0:28:44more people break cover and decide to come forward with allegations
0:28:44 > 0:28:49against politicians, what more can be done to deal with it?It has been
0:28:49 > 0:28:55difficult for Theresa May. I don't think it helps this that her
0:28:55 > 0:29:00government is in a fragile position and it is dependant on the DUP.
0:29:00 > 0:29:06Theresa May's allies would say she acted decisively in term of Michael
0:29:06 > 0:29:12Fallon, but there are Tory MPs who don't think it is appropriate that
0:29:12 > 0:29:18Stephen Crabb has the whip. He has been accused and had admitted to
0:29:18 > 0:29:24sectioning young girls and you have seen some Tory MPs lose the whip,
0:29:24 > 0:29:28but I don't think Theresa May has given enough clarity on how she
0:29:28 > 0:29:33thinks the problem can be resolved and I mean the Prime Minister was
0:29:33 > 0:29:36absent yesterday, it was Amber Rudd who was doing the rounds and saying
0:29:36 > 0:29:41it maybe right for MPs not just to lose their ministerial position, but
0:29:41 > 0:29:44to leave Parliament. I think Theresa May would have been wiser to deliver
0:29:44 > 0:29:49that message.As it goes on and the investigations are carried out,
0:29:49 > 0:29:51Caroline Wheeler, we have been discussing if people are found to
0:29:51 > 0:29:55have behaved in a way that's not acceptable under the new more
0:29:55 > 0:30:00robust, we hear, codes of conduct that the parties are looking at,
0:30:00 > 0:30:06then you know what happens to the politicians because they may well be
0:30:06 > 0:30:09suspended from their ministerial posts and lose the whip, but they
0:30:09 > 0:30:18will still be MPs, won't they?
0:30:18 > 0:30:22What we are being told as there is a complaints procedure in terms of the
0:30:22 > 0:30:28Conservative Party. MBAs or anyone who feels someone has behaved
0:30:28 > 0:30:32inappropriately can e-mail in. We don't know who can deal with the
0:30:32 > 0:30:36complaints. We understand there is an Independent person but we do not
0:30:36 > 0:30:41know who that is and where it goes from there. It is difficult in terms
0:30:41 > 0:30:46of working out what will happen there will be people within the
0:30:46 > 0:30:49Conservative Party associations and the constituencies scratching their
0:30:49 > 0:30:53heads and thinking, is this the type of person I want to be representing
0:30:53 > 0:31:03me in Parliament?Let's talk about the other issue and that is Brexit.
0:31:03 > 0:31:08Talking about the procedure committee. Charles Walker, head of
0:31:08 > 0:31:11the Commons procedure committee believes the oversight of the EU
0:31:11 > 0:31:16withdrawal bill is not enough. What is he suggesting? Element he is
0:31:16 > 0:31:22suggesting a separate committee be set up simply because of the volume
0:31:22 > 0:31:29of amendments. --He is suggesting. This is the biggest task any
0:31:29 > 0:31:34government has faced since 1945. Not surprising that the House of Commons
0:31:34 > 0:31:39and House of Lords are not capable of giving it the scrutiny giving how
0:31:39 > 0:31:44transformative the impact of Brexit could be for our political system
0:31:44 > 0:31:50and the UK economy.Mark Carney, the governor of the Bank England, said
0:31:50 > 0:31:54the uncertainty was having an adverse impact on business
0:31:54 > 0:32:01investment. No doubt he will be labelled as an enemy of Brexit by
0:32:01 > 0:32:06those who want to see Brexit happen. What is the general feeling about
0:32:06 > 0:32:13the role of Mark Carney in this?It depends who you ask. It is the same
0:32:13 > 0:32:18with all the Brexit stories. We still have people who voted remains,
0:32:18 > 0:32:21campaigning to remain saying things they feel pertain to the cause.
0:32:21 > 0:32:28There are those on the side of Wexford who seek Mark Carney as the
0:32:28 > 0:32:34bogeyman. -- Brexit. When you think about the negotiations at the end of
0:32:34 > 0:32:36the week there is a growing sense of frustration we're not getting on
0:32:36 > 0:32:42with it. You can see some of that reaction from the European side. The
0:32:42 > 0:32:46idea that we'll have talks about talks and there will not be any
0:32:46 > 0:32:48substantive progress until the end of year is getting people's backs
0:32:48 > 0:32:53up. At the same time we are seeing a strong message that business needs
0:32:53 > 0:32:57to know what transition will look like by the first quarter of next
0:32:57 > 0:33:03year, otherwise confidence in the economy and in their ability to make
0:33:03 > 0:33:09future decisions is very much compromised.Let's talk about the
0:33:09 > 0:33:13procedure committee and all of the laws that have to be looked over in
0:33:13 > 0:33:17the EU withdrawal bill. Do you agree with your colleague that there needs
0:33:17 > 0:33:24to be a new committee to filter through all the substance?We have
0:33:24 > 0:33:28spoken about this before. I think we have to approach this with a very
0:33:28 > 0:33:36broad mind about how Parliament uses its time. In a speech if you weeks
0:33:36 > 0:33:40ago I said I would be in favour of Parliament tearing up its timetable,
0:33:40 > 0:33:46sitting on Fridays and looking at the lengths of recess. This is the
0:33:46 > 0:33:50most important part of legislation we will have to deal with in this
0:33:50 > 0:33:54Parliament and it is only right that the House of Commons and the House
0:33:54 > 0:33:59of Lords gets a proper opportunity to scrutinise it. There is not a lot
0:33:59 > 0:34:02of other legislation going through at the moment for that we can create
0:34:02 > 0:34:10time for Parliament to do it and we can do it properly.You think that
0:34:10 > 0:34:15Parliament is being bypassed?We have an assembled list of amendments
0:34:15 > 0:34:25at the moment.300 and something guy coming up to 400 amendments.We will
0:34:25 > 0:34:28see, as the process begins after recess, how many people start to
0:34:28 > 0:34:33support each other's amendments. Which you signed up to?I am still
0:34:33 > 0:34:40going through the Bill and have not signed against any of them.Is there
0:34:40 > 0:34:45enough time to look through all of the legislation or is it as claimed
0:34:45 > 0:34:49by the Government important that the Government gets on with the Brexit
0:34:49 > 0:34:54bill and the EU withdrawal bill so that something is on the statute
0:34:54 > 0:34:59books so anything not covered by the laws we currently have because
0:34:59 > 0:35:05Parliament is delaying the process. Nobody is questioning the need to
0:35:05 > 0:35:10get the EU legislation into our own legislation. This issue of statutory
0:35:10 > 0:35:13instruments and which ones are important and which ones are not,
0:35:13 > 0:35:17should we just leave it up to the Government to determine which ones
0:35:17 > 0:35:24are done in committee or which are decided upon in the House? Dominic
0:35:24 > 0:35:27Grieve and others have tabled amendments to set that out and I
0:35:27 > 0:35:33agree with it. I personally think the most important amendment on be
0:35:33 > 0:35:39withdrawal bill is to guarantee that Parliament gets a say on the final
0:35:39 > 0:35:46deal in enough time.When would be enough time? David Davis has said it
0:35:46 > 0:35:53could all be done at the last moment.It has to happen before it
0:35:53 > 0:35:57goes to European Parliament.We are seeing a number of checks and
0:35:57 > 0:36:01balances being discussed. I think it is absolutely right we get to go
0:36:01 > 0:36:05through the legislation with a tooth comb, making sure that Parliament is
0:36:05 > 0:36:12happy with it.Should Parliament have a meaningful say six months
0:36:12 > 0:36:16before the European Parliament?The Prime Minister has said that
0:36:16 > 0:36:22Parliament will have a meaningful say.It is yet another infusion.
0:36:22 > 0:36:32Simon I think we can rest assured that we will. --I think we can rest
0:36:32 > 0:36:41assured. Whenever if Parliament vote down the deal, what happens then?I
0:36:41 > 0:36:46want to see it in legislation, the final, meaningful vote.That means
0:36:46 > 0:36:52would be able to vote down the deal. Would you say you have to go back to
0:36:52 > 0:36:57Brussels and renegotiate or do we just fallout of the EU at that
0:36:57 > 0:37:03point?By having legislation where Parliament will have the final say,
0:37:03 > 0:37:06the Government will deal much more effectively with MPs to stop them
0:37:06 > 0:37:10getting a bad deal in the first place. No one wants this going
0:37:10 > 0:37:17backwards and forwards. By having a power for Parliament, it will ensure
0:37:17 > 0:37:21that government works across the House and get agreement. Simon and
0:37:21 > 0:37:25there is a real danger that if Parliament votes down the final
0:37:25 > 0:37:28deal, the Prime Minister will suddenly be able to go back and
0:37:28 > 0:37:34start the whole process again. -- There is a real deal. Be you will
0:37:34 > 0:37:41not play ball in that way. They will be given more time to do that. There
0:37:41 > 0:37:49is a danger that MPs create the danger for constituents. There is a
0:37:49 > 0:37:55reset button on this but there is not.I think there is a safety
0:37:55 > 0:38:01mechanism that the Government should deal more effectively with MPs to
0:38:01 > 0:38:05deal cross -- get cross-party support for a deal.We are seeing a
0:38:05 > 0:38:11lot of that work going on.We will find out in a couple of weeks.
0:38:11 > 0:38:14There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.
0:38:14 > 0:38:17The question was about Donald Trump's visit to Japan.
0:38:17 > 0:38:19What did he do that has sparked outrage on Twitter?
0:38:19 > 0:38:21Was it a) Overfeed the fish
0:38:21 > 0:38:22b) Pick some flowers
0:38:22 > 0:38:26c) Refuse to eat the sushi
0:38:26 > 0:38:29or d) Tweet through a press conference?
0:38:29 > 0:38:33At the end of the show, Alex and lives will give us the correct
0:38:33 > 0:38:39answer. -- lives.
0:38:39 > 0:38:41Now, homelessness in the UK is a problem every party has pledged
0:38:41 > 0:38:44to tackle:whether it be with more houses or more money.
0:38:44 > 0:38:47But what's the right thing for each of us to do when we walk past
0:38:47 > 0:38:49someone begging in the street?
0:38:49 > 0:38:51Should we buy them some food and a hot drink -
0:38:51 > 0:38:54or should we give them the money directly regardless of how
0:38:54 > 0:38:55we think they'll spend it?
0:38:55 > 0:38:57The journalist Matt Broomfield thinks so.
0:38:57 > 0:39:07Here's his soapbox.
0:39:08 > 0:39:12We're often told we shouldn't give cash to the homeless but I think we
0:39:12 > 0:39:17should give them money, directly and unconditionally.
0:39:17 > 0:39:21Don't just buy them a sandwich, they're not four.
0:39:21 > 0:39:26They have the right to spend their money, as they choose.
0:39:26 > 0:39:29Don't try to second-guess if they're really homeless.
0:39:29 > 0:39:35If they're desperate enough to beg, they need it.
0:39:35 > 0:39:37Many street beggars are addicts but addiction
0:39:37 > 0:39:42can only be tackled by raising people out of poverty.
0:39:42 > 0:39:44Cutting off people's only source of income is not
0:39:44 > 0:39:47going to starve them into seeking help from authorities they
0:39:47 > 0:39:49know will not or cannot help them.
0:39:49 > 0:39:52When the Government says street beggars are refusing long-term help,
0:39:52 > 0:39:55what they mean is that help on offer is not adequate.
0:39:55 > 0:39:59What homeless people need is free, state-provided
0:39:59 > 0:40:01housing and fully-funded psychological care.
0:40:01 > 0:40:03What they get is austerity measures, driving them
0:40:03 > 0:40:09onto the street.
0:40:09 > 0:40:11Thanks to a poor state response, charitable giving
0:40:11 > 0:40:15and hostels remain life-savers to many thousands of people.
0:40:15 > 0:40:17But big homelessness charities already
0:40:17 > 0:40:20receive millions from government and private donors every year
0:40:20 > 0:40:24while those deemed impossible to help die outside.
0:40:24 > 0:40:26Many structural barriers separate long-term rough
0:40:26 > 0:40:32sleepers from hostel beds.
0:40:32 > 0:40:37Many of the foreign nationals making up half of London's sleeping
0:40:37 > 0:40:39population cannot claim benefits to access the charity-run hostel
0:40:39 > 0:40:43network at all.
0:40:43 > 0:40:45In fact some major homelessness charities actively shop
0:40:45 > 0:40:48foreign rough sleepers to the Home Office to be deported.
0:40:48 > 0:40:52It is the same government-funded charities
0:40:52 > 0:40:55which pushed the narratives that "kindness kills" as they tout for
0:40:55 > 0:40:56your donations.
0:40:56 > 0:40:57Do not believe them.
0:40:57 > 0:41:00Apathy and austerity kills.
0:41:00 > 0:41:03Your kindness saves lives.
0:41:03 > 0:41:05And Matt Broomfield joins us now.
0:41:05 > 0:41:08Also here is the chief executive of the homelessness
0:41:08 > 0:41:15charity Thames Reach, Jeremy Swain.
0:41:15 > 0:41:19Welcome to both of you. Can I start with you, jammy, why shouldn't
0:41:19 > 0:41:25people give cash directly and unconditionally to homeless people?
0:41:25 > 0:41:29-- Jeromy.We have workers on the street every day going out and
0:41:29 > 0:41:35begging on the street, sleeping rough. People on the street have
0:41:35 > 0:41:42normally gone onto the street to get money from the public. For my staff,
0:41:42 > 0:41:46working on the street, it is not something which is the theoretical
0:41:46 > 0:41:52issue, we are losing people dying on the street. Our job is to transform
0:41:52 > 0:41:58lives and get those people off the streets and get them into treatment.
0:41:58 > 0:42:03Often they are into treatment. We need to change things. 50 of our
0:42:03 > 0:42:08colleagues are former homeless people. They can tell you that we
0:42:08 > 0:42:11need change. When Matt said in the piece that even if somebody's going
0:42:11 > 0:42:17to use the money for an overdose, still give it to them. This is just
0:42:17 > 0:42:23appalling and offensive.New office he want to come back. You quoted
0:42:23 > 0:42:28approvingly someone says, if your money funds the final drugs kit,
0:42:28 > 0:42:35accept the person would rather be dead. Sun this is a quote from
0:42:35 > 0:42:39another former rough sleeper, another former addict. --This is a
0:42:39 > 0:42:46quote. This is as a way of opening up the conversation more broadly.
0:42:46 > 0:42:49When you say people are coming onto the street to bake it is a fact to
0:42:49 > 0:42:58get money and it is about rough sleeping doubling, quadrupling in
0:42:58 > 0:43:07some cities. If anything they are given less cash. This is keyed into
0:43:07 > 0:43:11rising poverty, austerity cuts and a lack of adequate housing. This is
0:43:11 > 0:43:17what we should be tackling.However much work you do, you will never be
0:43:17 > 0:43:21able to combat, if that is the case, the situation that Matt is
0:43:21 > 0:43:26describing. If someone wants to give money, should we make our moral
0:43:26 > 0:43:29judgment?You certainly do. By giving people money on the street
0:43:29 > 0:43:33they can die. There was a young woman living in a hostel who came
0:43:33 > 0:43:37onto the street to bake one night from people coming out of the clubs
0:43:37 > 0:43:43in Southampton thought she came back to our hostel, had a bath and a
0:43:43 > 0:43:47seizure and is dead. Matt is not someone who has to attend funerals
0:43:47 > 0:43:53and talk to families about why their daughter, son or mother died. There
0:43:53 > 0:43:57are serious issues about poverty on the street. We have high numbers of
0:43:57 > 0:44:02rough sleepers. We have 1300 people off the street and we need public to
0:44:02 > 0:44:07work with us. Giving money at the right place might actually be the
0:44:07 > 0:44:11way of doing it.In the sense that the person who gave the money for
0:44:11 > 0:44:14the heroine very sad because Turk to lose her life, you could equally say
0:44:14 > 0:44:20because the people who die of exposure, people who did not get
0:44:20 > 0:44:26money costs them their lives in the same sense.When I was last talking
0:44:26 > 0:44:32about this issue, it was two years ago when the police had the freedom
0:44:32 > 0:44:36of information request to get the number, the percentage of people
0:44:36 > 0:44:40begging on the street who were housed and it was 20%. Only one in
0:44:40 > 0:44:43five is literally homeless. We have people coming onto the streets to
0:44:43 > 0:44:50bed. Our job is to move people off the streets and into treatment. This
0:44:50 > 0:44:55can be done. It is about people living long and fulfilling lives.I
0:44:55 > 0:45:00do not think the way to help is to create a hostile environment on the
0:45:00 > 0:45:06street. There is no way I can even survive. There are many reasons why
0:45:06 > 0:45:11people leave the shelter.Come out with us until one o'clock in the
0:45:11 > 0:45:16morning. We will help people into hostels. In some hostels, in a safe
0:45:16 > 0:45:22and controlled way, you can use will stopI have spoken to many people
0:45:22 > 0:45:27who are out of the hostel system. Not one is saying it is because they
0:45:27 > 0:45:32have so much money on the streets. They give a number of reasons. Most
0:45:32 > 0:45:37say there is not enough money for hostels as a first response. Maybe
0:45:37 > 0:45:41difficulties with caseworkers or people are now. There are many
0:45:41 > 0:45:44reasons why people leave hostels. No one says they have deliberately left
0:45:44 > 0:45:48the hostel and gone on to the street.If there are enough money
0:45:48 > 0:45:51being given to be the act as a magnet for people to stay on the
0:45:51 > 0:45:55street for that reason?
0:45:55 > 0:46:00We are on the street every night of the year talking to people. You have
0:46:00 > 0:46:04come out to do an article. That's fine. We are the ones picking up the
0:46:04 > 0:46:07pieces when you have moved on to another piece. The money you can get
0:46:07 > 0:46:12on the street, in two hours you can raise £50, but let's remember...And
0:46:12 > 0:46:17they can get a hot meal and drink with that money.You don't need to
0:46:17 > 0:46:22book into accommodation because it is free on the point of access. In
0:46:22 > 0:46:27our service across London, Thames Reach has food and there is 30 soup
0:46:27 > 0:46:31runs giving out food at the top of the Strand in Central London. Food
0:46:31 > 0:46:35is not the issue. Changing people's lives and giving them accident
0:46:35 > 0:46:39accommodation and helping them solve their addiction problem is what it
0:46:39 > 0:46:44is about.The money that's given, some of it, to people who are
0:46:44 > 0:46:49begging or people who are homeless on the street would be better if
0:46:49 > 0:46:52people were encouraged to give that to charities?There are groups I
0:46:52 > 0:46:56support with the charities the point where I decided I felt I would no
0:46:56 > 0:47:00longer want to support the big charities such as Thames Reach when
0:47:00 > 0:47:05I reared about their involvement in providing a database of location of
0:47:05 > 0:47:08foreign national rough sleepers... This is factually incorrect. We have
0:47:08 > 0:47:11never away an individual's details to the Home Office where they could
0:47:11 > 0:47:20be picked up and tan off the street. You have a database of locations.
0:47:20 > 0:47:24Data protection would prevent us doing that. I was out two weeks ago,
0:47:24 > 0:47:27there were four people sleeving rough in the reception area of a
0:47:27 > 0:47:30police station and we were delighted to help those people get off the
0:47:30 > 0:47:36street.Have you given money to people begging on the street?I have
0:47:36 > 0:47:39done both, given money individually and to charities. The two things we
0:47:39 > 0:47:44need to do, one is we need to make sure local councils are building
0:47:44 > 0:47:47more council houses, affordable housing, that's the big thing and
0:47:47 > 0:47:51secondly, now, I am much more focussed on giving to charities
0:47:51 > 0:47:54because it is, you have got to fix all these different pieces together,
0:47:54 > 0:47:58what you want is a roof over their head, something warm to eat, but
0:47:58 > 0:48:02deal with their addiction, and get them skills and training and
0:48:02 > 0:48:07charities can bring that together. Right. Building more homes as we
0:48:07 > 0:48:09have seen over successive years and with successive governments takes
0:48:09 > 0:48:14time. In the meantime should people stop giving money to people who are
0:48:14 > 0:48:19homeless on the streets?I would strongly encourage people to give
0:48:19 > 0:48:23their money to homeless charities and if you see someone on your
0:48:23 > 0:48:27street who you feel is in need of help, give them advice, give them a
0:48:27 > 0:48:31cup of tea and something to eat, but I would recommend that people direct
0:48:31 > 0:48:33their money to homeless charities who understand this problem better
0:48:33 > 0:48:38than we do and the Government has recently brought in the homeless
0:48:38 > 0:48:41reduction Act which is a good first stepment we are looking at housing
0:48:41 > 0:48:44first model which is being successful in other parts of the
0:48:44 > 0:48:47world where you get people into accommodation and get them the
0:48:47 > 0:48:49services they are required to solve their mental health problems.What
0:48:49 > 0:48:53do you say to Matt who says it is austerity that put a lot of these
0:48:53 > 0:48:58people on the street in the first place?What you have seen in London
0:48:58 > 0:49:02is that you have seen yes, I know that rough sleeping has increased,
0:49:02 > 0:49:06but a lot of the numbers of the increase have gone people coming and
0:49:06 > 0:49:08working from abroad rather than people who have been forced on the
0:49:08 > 0:49:13streets here.Is it as a result of austerity?That's far...We have
0:49:13 > 0:49:20seen people lose.Let him answer. Those their homes.This is a time of
0:49:20 > 0:49:24record employment, you have more people than ever in the workplace.
0:49:24 > 0:49:27Rent has gone sky high. Landlords kicking people out because...We are
0:49:27 > 0:49:34going to have to leave it there, thank you for coming in today.
0:49:34 > 0:49:37We have had the party conferences and the trade union congress.
0:49:37 > 0:49:39This week it's the turn of Britain's bosses to have their knees up
0:49:39 > 0:49:41at the venue formerly known as The Dome,
0:49:41 > 0:49:44where they are meeting for the CBI annual conference.
0:49:44 > 0:49:45This morning has been all about politics
0:49:45 > 0:49:48with an appearance by Jeremy Corbyn and the Prime Minister bigging up
0:49:48 > 0:49:54the role of state in the economy.
0:49:54 > 0:49:56A strategic state has a major influence on the economy.
0:49:56 > 0:49:57In exerting that influence, governments
0:49:57 > 0:50:01must inevitably make choices.
0:50:01 > 0:50:05And in a democracy, be held to account for them.
0:50:05 > 0:50:09The choice which this government makes is to deploy this
0:50:09 > 0:50:12influence in a thought through way, taking decisions for the long term.
0:50:12 > 0:50:15Because while the power and potential of the market is immense,
0:50:15 > 0:50:20I also strongly believe in the good that government can do.
0:50:21 > 0:50:25Carolyn Fairbairn is the Director General of the CBI.
0:50:25 > 0:50:30She joins us now from the CBI conference in Greenwich.
0:50:30 > 0:50:34Welcome to the Daily Politics. We have just heard Theresa May there,
0:50:34 > 0:50:39the Prime Minister, talking about the Government, state intervention
0:50:39 > 0:50:41and strategic intervention of industry and Jeremy Corbyn wants to
0:50:41 > 0:50:46nationalise a few of your members. Do you believe that Thatcherism is
0:50:46 > 0:50:51truly dead?Well, I think what we have seen is a lot of common themes
0:50:51 > 0:50:55around the value of markets and the value of business. That came through
0:50:55 > 0:50:58from Jeremy Corbyn's speech as well, but a role for the state which I
0:50:58 > 0:51:02think is well accepted and has to be right. But the importance of markets
0:51:02 > 0:51:10to be able to work, what we are also hearing, I think, is commitment on
0:51:10 > 0:51:14boths both sides. And that's a good combination, good government and
0:51:14 > 0:51:20responsible business.Both party leaders are talking about state
0:51:20 > 0:51:22intervention and for the Conservatives you could argue we
0:51:22 > 0:51:26haven't heard as much about state intervention as we have under
0:51:26 > 0:51:30Theresa May and presumably that's because they feel the public is
0:51:30 > 0:51:32blaming big business, many of them your members, because the market has
0:51:32 > 0:51:39failed them?Well, I think that there are questions around the role
0:51:39 > 0:51:43of business and how it works, but I think that the massive contribution
0:51:43 > 0:51:47that businesses can make, particularly now, around our
0:51:47 > 0:51:48productivity challenge, the investment that we need to raise
0:51:48 > 0:51:52living standards, I think is coming through really strongly politically
0:51:52 > 0:51:58now and I think we have got the biggest conference here... Sorry.
0:51:58 > 0:52:01What way do you think it is coming through strongly? We have heard
0:52:01 > 0:52:04Theresa May talk about the importance of capitalism and the
0:52:04 > 0:52:09free-market economy, but we are seeing and hearing policies on state
0:52:09 > 0:52:12intervention on housing, on energy which the Labour Party had first
0:52:12 > 0:52:17suggested, your banking members had to be bailed out by the tax payer.
0:52:17 > 0:52:21So what way is there evidence that the free-market economy has worked?
0:52:21 > 0:52:27Well, I think in terms of living standards that have risen and the
0:52:27 > 0:52:29contribution that companies and markets have made over many years, I
0:52:29 > 0:52:33think it was where the Prime Minister opened her speech today.
0:52:33 > 0:52:38There is, of course, an important role for the state and I think that
0:52:38 > 0:52:41the points made by both Prime Minister and Jeremy Corbyn about
0:52:41 > 0:52:45housing very, very welcome. Social issue, but a very important business
0:52:45 > 0:52:48issue as well in terms of people being able to get to their places of
0:52:48 > 0:52:53work. So I think it is this marriage of state and business that is going
0:52:53 > 0:52:57to work best and it is about a partnership. So, I think we are
0:52:57 > 0:53:00hearing the right kinds of messages and also around Brexit where the
0:53:00 > 0:53:04voice of I think the economy is coming through much more strongly
0:53:04 > 0:53:10from both leaders.So why are living standards delining? Wages aren't
0:53:10 > 0:53:13keeping up with inflation. If you say it has been a something ses, why
0:53:13 > 0:53:18are we in that state and productivity levels are very low?We
0:53:18 > 0:53:20have a huge challenge around productivity. I think if you look
0:53:20 > 0:53:23over the course of the last 30 years, you know, we have seen the
0:53:23 > 0:53:28benefits that markets have brought to society and to people's lives. We
0:53:28 > 0:53:31have got a massive productivity problem and that is where business
0:53:31 > 0:53:35comes in because it will be through the kinds of investments that we
0:53:35 > 0:53:37need, the new products that are developed, the new jobs that are
0:53:37 > 0:53:43created, there is a big theme here around technology that I think
0:53:43 > 0:53:45living standards will be kick-started again and again, I go
0:53:45 > 0:53:49back to the themes of industrial strategy that we're hearing
0:53:49 > 0:53:52repeated, but I think the message from businesses are around pace, we
0:53:52 > 0:53:57need to see the actions coming in very soon.Right, well, let's talk
0:53:57 > 0:54:00about Brexit because there have been threats that businesses, your
0:54:00 > 0:54:03members are going to stop investing, they're going to have to start
0:54:03 > 0:54:07firing people. Do you stand by those sorts of comments? Is that what's
0:54:07 > 0:54:12going to happen if, in your words, there isn't more certainty on
0:54:12 > 0:54:16Brexit?Well, we are in a place where firms are having to look at
0:54:16 > 0:54:20their plans in case there is no deal. And we're heading into the
0:54:20 > 0:54:26period where that is happening now. So our latest survey suggests that
0:54:26 > 0:54:30about 10% of firms have already made that move and 20% by the end of the
0:54:30 > 0:54:35year and a further 25% by next March. These are just rational
0:54:35 > 0:54:38responses that firms are taking to how they organise themselves. The
0:54:38 > 0:54:41good news though is that it can be prevented if a transition
0:54:41 > 0:54:45arrangement is put in place by the end of the year, a status quo
0:54:45 > 0:54:48transition, what firms tell us, large firms, three-quarters of them
0:54:48 > 0:54:53will pause the plans. So it is a really, are really key few weeks
0:54:53 > 0:54:56leading up to the December negotiations.But what sort of
0:54:56 > 0:54:59proposals are looking for? The Government is in the middle of a
0:54:59 > 0:55:04negotiation and the Government will say it cannot reveal or give away
0:55:04 > 0:55:09it's negotiating hand in the way you seem to be calling for. What
0:55:09 > 0:55:12precisely would give this certainty that you say business needs?
0:55:12 > 0:55:16I think, at moment from the Government's side, I think we are
0:55:16 > 0:55:20seeing this increasingly is unity around the Florence speech which was
0:55:20 > 0:55:24I think very, our members and firms, thought it was a good step forward.
0:55:24 > 0:55:30We need the unity around that which I think we are seeing increasingly
0:55:30 > 0:55:33and was reaffirmed this morning. There is a consensus from Labour and
0:55:33 > 0:55:36the positions are consistent and that's a strong position to be
0:55:36 > 0:55:38taking into the European Union and there is a lot of conversation, we
0:55:38 > 0:55:41are doing a lot of work with European businesses to put the case
0:55:41 > 0:55:46on the other side, why this is in the mutual interest of all firms.
0:55:46 > 0:55:51That's what we are wanting to see, unity and clarity and urgency going
0:55:51 > 0:55:59into December.This is regarding membership of the single market?For
0:55:59 > 0:56:03the transition period. For the transition period. There is then a
0:56:03 > 0:56:06massive question about the shape of the final deal and that's what is
0:56:06 > 0:56:13going to be next in line. So, again the Florence speech gave some
0:56:13 > 0:56:17indication that the importance of keeping a close economic
0:56:17 > 0:56:20relationship, barrier-free trade, as frictionless as possible. These are
0:56:20 > 0:56:24going to come back on to the agenda in the New Year as the new deal gets
0:56:24 > 0:56:27sorted out and that's going to be the thing, if we can get transition
0:56:27 > 0:56:30agreed in the New Year, we need to quickly move on to that because
0:56:30 > 0:56:34that's the next level of certainty business wants to see.Thank you
0:56:34 > 0:56:38very much for joining us today.
0:56:38 > 0:56:42There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.
0:56:42 > 0:56:44The question was about Donald Trump's visit to Japan.
0:56:44 > 0:56:47What did he do that has sparked outrage on Twitter?
0:56:47 > 0:56:48Was it a) Overfeed the fish?
0:56:48 > 0:56:52b) Pick some flowers?
0:56:52 > 0:56:53c) Refuse to eat the sushi?
0:56:53 > 0:56:58or d) Tweet through a press conference?
0:56:58 > 0:57:03He is alleged to overfed the fish. He did, but so did the Japanese
0:57:03 > 0:57:09Prime Minister.We don't know how many fish were in the pond! I
0:57:09 > 0:57:17understand in the palace, it is teeming with these coy carp.
0:57:17 > 0:57:23I'm impressed by your level of interest in this. This is the
0:57:23 > 0:57:26picture that got Twitter buzzing. There is Donald Trump seen to be
0:57:26 > 0:57:30emptying and dumping the food in one go, but it is not as clear as the
0:57:30 > 0:57:35photograph implies because as Liz suggested the president is standing
0:57:35 > 0:57:40next to Japan's Prime Minister and which each of them starts throwing
0:57:40 > 0:57:45the food in, with moderation, with the spoon. Oh, it's the Prime
0:57:45 > 0:57:48Minister who dumps husband food first! He is laughing and so does
0:57:48 > 0:57:51Donald Trump! So, what do we think? Unfair
0:57:51 > 0:57:55coverage for Donald Trump?I think so. Look, he was following the lead
0:57:55 > 0:58:00of his host and I think if you were to see the grateful fish at the
0:58:00 > 0:58:05bottom of the pond they would have been eating it up!Are you from the
0:58:05 > 0:58:11Fishing Times newspaper or something?I follow Buzz feed
0:58:11 > 0:58:17because they reveal truth of these stories.
0:58:17 > 0:58:22Since it is a year since President Trump came president, how will you
0:58:22 > 0:58:30be celebrating?The year is a far less safe and society and culture is
0:58:30 > 0:58:36less.I think the best is to come. The best is to come from Trump.
0:58:36 > 0:58:42President Trump. That's diplomatic of you.
0:58:42 > 0:58:43That's all for today.
0:58:43 > 0:58:44Thanks to our guests.
0:58:44 > 0:58:46The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now.
0:58:46 > 0:58:49I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the big
0:58:49 > 0:58:50political stories of the day.
0:58:50 > 0:58:53There is then a short recess, but I will be back the following Monday.
0:58:53 > 0:58:58From all of us here, good afternoon. Bye-bye.
0:59:02 > 0:59:04# The world was on fire