0:00:38 > 0:00:40Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
0:00:40 > 0:00:44Theresa May is due to address MPs this afternoon and hail a new sense
0:00:44 > 0:00:45of optimism in the Brexit talks.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48She'll also say she's not pushing for either a hard or a soft Brexit.
0:00:48 > 0:00:53But what will the UK's position outside the EU eventually look like?
0:00:53 > 0:00:56Labour is considering moving large parts of the Bank of England
0:00:56 > 0:00:59to Birmingham as part of plans to create an economic policy hub
0:00:59 > 0:01:00in Britain's second city.
0:01:00 > 0:01:06We speak to the economist pushing the idea.
0:01:06 > 0:01:09In the latest in our 'Westminster Village' series we look
0:01:09 > 0:01:11at the people who really wield power behind the scenes in
0:01:11 > 0:01:16Jeremy Corbyn's Labour party.
0:01:16 > 0:01:18And as Conservative-supporting Georgia Toffolo wins I'm
0:01:18 > 0:01:21a Celebrity, we ask if there's hope yet for Tory attempts to win
0:01:21 > 0:01:25over the youth vote.
0:01:28 > 0:01:31All that in the next hour and, speaking of winning over the youth
0:01:31 > 0:01:33vote, I'm joined by two Parliamentary spring
0:01:33 > 0:01:40chickens: the Shadow Minister for Women and Equalities,
0:01:40 > 0:01:42Dawn Butler, and the Conservative MP and former Cabinet
0:01:42 > 0:01:43Minister Andrew Mitchell.
0:01:43 > 0:01:51Welcome to you both.
0:01:51 > 0:01:53Now, over the weekend, Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson
0:01:53 > 0:01:55was in Iran, where he met with Iranian president
0:01:55 > 0:01:56Hassan Rouhani.
0:01:56 > 0:01:58A spokesman called the talks "forthright" but "worthwhile".
0:01:58 > 0:02:00Mr Johnson was due to press for the release of Iranian-British
0:02:00 > 0:02:03national Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, who is currently jailed in Iran.
0:02:03 > 0:02:04While no announcement was made on her release,
0:02:04 > 0:02:07a fresh hearing which was expected to extend her sentence
0:02:07 > 0:02:09was postponed, something Ms Zaghari-Ratcliffe said brought
0:02:09 > 0:02:19"some light at the end of the tunnel".
0:02:21 > 0:02:25Andrew Mitchell, what chance do you think there is that Nazanin
0:02:25 > 0:02:29Zaghari-Ratcliffe will be released soon?I fervently hope she will be,
0:02:29 > 0:02:34that she will be home in time for Christmas. I am one of those who has
0:02:34 > 0:02:39campaigned for her release, I think on humanitarian grounds alone. She
0:02:39 > 0:02:43is not very well, hasn't seen her daughter for so long, and she should
0:02:43 > 0:02:48be reunited with her family. The family have humanitarian concerns
0:02:48 > 0:02:56will trump politics and she will be released.Has the criticism of Boris
0:02:56 > 0:03:00Johnson been fair?I don't think it is helpful to go back over that.
0:03:00 > 0:03:06Years at the core this.He has gone to terror on to make it clear that
0:03:06 > 0:03:10Britain wants to see her released as soon as possible and deserves credit
0:03:10 > 0:03:15for that.In terms of being across the detail, when you know how
0:03:15 > 0:03:18sensitively a country like Iran needs to be handled in these sorts
0:03:18 > 0:03:23of cases, do you think he was across the brief?It's clear that he
0:03:23 > 0:03:27misspoke in that committee, and it was a great pity that that happened.
0:03:27 > 0:03:32You know, these things happen in politics. The critical thing is to
0:03:32 > 0:03:36focus on the humanitarian dimension of this and that this poor lady is
0:03:36 > 0:03:41released as soon as possible.Dawn Butler, the court has welcomed the
0:03:41 > 0:03:48talks that have gone on between President Rabbani and Boris Johnson.
0:03:48 > 0:03:58Do you support it?-- President Rohani. I appreciate that he is
0:03:58 > 0:04:05trying to make up for it. I hope that Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe is
0:04:05 > 0:04:09released before Christmas and reunited with her husband and
0:04:09 > 0:04:13daughters. I think it is extremely important, and I think on
0:04:13 > 0:04:19humanitarian grounds, but it is an issue that at some point we have to
0:04:19 > 0:04:23tackle sensitive issues, take a sensitive approach and ministers to
0:04:23 > 0:04:28handle those.In a way, it has highlighted this case, and Boris
0:04:28 > 0:04:32Johnson as Foreign Secretary has been to some extent forced to go out
0:04:32 > 0:04:40there. Do you think in the end that will have helped the high -- will
0:04:40 > 0:04:46have helped her?If the outcome is that she is released and back home,
0:04:46 > 0:04:51then I will welcome that.How much does this visit show that Iran has
0:04:51 > 0:04:56changed, in your mind, Andrew Mitchell?I think we urgently need
0:04:56 > 0:05:00to improve relations between Britain and Iran, and we have the
0:05:00 > 0:05:04opportunity because we are not in the same place as President Trump
0:05:04 > 0:05:09over the nuclear deal. We are strong supporters of it. And we're not in
0:05:09 > 0:05:14support of the Americans over the moving of the embassy to Jerusalem.
0:05:14 > 0:05:18There is an interest between Iran and Britain that we need to build
0:05:18 > 0:05:22on. Iran is an important player in the Middle East, where Britain has
0:05:22 > 0:05:28enormously important interests, and we need to bring Iran into the
0:05:28 > 0:05:34committee of nations.What has happened in the last week has been
0:05:34 > 0:05:38worrying, and Trump's approach has been excruciatingly painful in terms
0:05:38 > 0:05:42of peace negotiations and a two state solution. On the whole, I
0:05:42 > 0:05:47agree.In terms of the relationship between Britain and Iran, how much
0:05:47 > 0:05:55more can be done from our position? On the specific case of the release?
0:05:55 > 0:06:05No, broadly on improving oration -- relations with Iran?I am hoping
0:06:05 > 0:06:11there will be a delegation from Britain to Iran early next year.
0:06:11 > 0:06:15There is nothing in Britain's interest for maintaining what in the
0:06:15 > 0:06:20past has been a big blockage with Iran. We need to get things moving.
0:06:20 > 0:06:24We are trading, and we need to do that more. We need a better
0:06:24 > 0:06:28understanding. I think contact between the two countries should now
0:06:28 > 0:06:35be intensified, and it is very important.Lets leave it there.
0:06:35 > 0:06:36Now it's time for our daily quiz.
0:06:36 > 0:06:39Over the weekend Theresa May decorated a Christmas tree
0:06:39 > 0:06:40in her church in her constituency.
0:06:40 > 0:06:42So, the question for today is, what did she put
0:06:42 > 0:06:44on the top of the tree?
0:06:44 > 0:06:45Was it a) A gold star,
0:06:45 > 0:06:46b) An angel,
0:06:46 > 0:06:47c) A silver shoe,
0:06:47 > 0:06:49or d) A bauble with Jean-Claude Juncker's
0:06:49 > 0:06:50face on it?
0:06:50 > 0:06:53At the end of the show Andrew and Dawn will give us
0:06:53 > 0:06:58the correct answer.
0:06:58 > 0:07:01The Prime Minister will address the House of Commons later this
0:07:01 > 0:07:04afternoon and hail a new "sense of optimism" in the Brexit talks.
0:07:04 > 0:07:07It follows that deal on Friday which allows negotiations to move
0:07:07 > 0:07:08forward to discuss the future relationship between
0:07:08 > 0:07:09Britain and the EU.
0:07:09 > 0:07:14But the nature of that future relationship is likely to become
0:07:14 > 0:07:17the focus of fierce domestic debate in the coming weeks and months.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20The Cabinet will begin its discussions later this month.
0:07:20 > 0:07:22And further across the political spectrum, there is a wide range
0:07:22 > 0:07:25of opinion:
0:07:25 > 0:07:27David Davis said yesterday the UK Government wants
0:07:27 > 0:07:30to secure a 'Canada plus plus plus' free trade deal after the UK
0:07:30 > 0:07:31leaves the EU.
0:07:31 > 0:07:34Canada's deal with the EU eliminates 98% of the tariffs
0:07:34 > 0:07:36between the EU and Canada, without the country saying
0:07:36 > 0:07:39for access to the Single Market.
0:07:39 > 0:07:49But unlike the Canada deal, Davis wants financial services,
0:07:49 > 0:07:51between the EU and Canada, --without the country paying
0:07:51 > 0:07:53But unlike the Canada deal, Davis wants financial services,
0:07:53 > 0:07:56which account for a substantial part of Britain's economic output, to be
0:07:56 > 0:07:57included in the tariff-free area.
0:07:57 > 0:07:59Some Brexiteers have expressed concerns that the 'full alignment'
0:07:59 > 0:08:01outlined in Friday's agreement will undermine the UK's ability
0:08:01 > 0:08:11to strike free trade deals with third party countries.
0:08:13 > 0:08:16Labour's Brexit spokesman, Keir Starmer, says the UK should
0:08:16 > 0:08:20"stay aligned" to the EU after Brexit, and could negotiate
0:08:20 > 0:08:26payments to access the single market, as Norway does now.
0:08:26 > 0:08:28Asked if that would include allowing free movement of people,
0:08:28 > 0:08:30Labour have indicated they would support an "easy"
0:08:30 > 0:08:33movement of people.
0:08:33 > 0:08:36The Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry raised the possibility
0:08:36 > 0:08:39yesterday that the UK could stay in a form of customs union
0:08:39 > 0:08:45to allow trade to continue between the EU and UK.
0:08:45 > 0:08:48But the SNP have called on Labour to "get behind" the SNP
0:08:48 > 0:08:56in committing to stay in the single market and customs union.
0:08:56 > 0:09:00Chris Mason joins me now. Sufficient progress was made on Friday but
0:09:00 > 0:09:05there is a lot to get through before it is rubber-stamped this Friday.
0:09:05 > 0:09:09Yeah, their race. This morning, the first thing was a cabinet meeting.
0:09:09 > 0:09:13There is only one more after today before the end of the year, and
0:09:13 > 0:09:18there is that big discussion to come about the end state, in terms of
0:09:18 > 0:09:23what the Cabinet wants the flavour Brexit to be once we have left at
0:09:23 > 0:09:28the end of March of the year after next. This afternoon, that
0:09:28 > 0:09:33appointment the Prime Minister has in front of that though it meant the
0:09:33 > 0:09:38House of Commons. She was hoping to do it last week before that aborted
0:09:38 > 0:09:43lunch with Jean-Claude Juncker. Then the dash back to Brussels in the
0:09:43 > 0:09:48early hours of Friday morning. A pretty triumphant tone, I suspect,
0:09:48 > 0:09:51from the Prime Minister this afternoon, and from some around her,
0:09:51 > 0:09:56because it could have been very different. We could have been
0:09:56 > 0:09:59talking about how the whole thing had unravelled and how it was a
0:09:59 > 0:10:06nightmare for the Prime Minister, and all the talk of what that might
0:10:06 > 0:10:10mean for the future, or there could be days to go until a summit and a
0:10:10 > 0:10:17deal still hadn't been done. Instead, the Prime Minister will say
0:10:17 > 0:10:21it is not about hard or soft Brexit. Our old friend, nothing is agreed
0:10:21 > 0:10:26until everything is agreed, but, she says, a new sense of optimism about
0:10:26 > 0:10:32talks in the New Year as talk about the future relationship becomes the
0:10:32 > 0:10:37focus in 2018.How is she going to keep everybody on board when
0:10:37 > 0:10:42everybody has a different view and opinion of what that end state in
0:10:42 > 0:10:45terms of the future trade relationship should actually look
0:10:45 > 0:10:49like? And tell us about the EU withdrawal bill, which is back in
0:10:49 > 0:10:53the Commons.That is the challenge of keeping everyone on board. The
0:10:53 > 0:11:01flip side is, if you are in Downing Street, you can marvel at them
0:11:01 > 0:11:10managing to come up with a document that Brussels, Dublin, Belfast and
0:11:10 > 0:11:15the various wings of the Conservative Party were willing to
0:11:15 > 0:11:20sign off on. Once we start getting into that discussion about the
0:11:20 > 0:11:23future relationship, and ultimately boils down to how close or otherwise
0:11:23 > 0:11:27the UK in the future will be to the EU on the other side of Brexit, then
0:11:27 > 0:11:33there will be a range of views and arguments, no doubt. As far as the
0:11:33 > 0:11:37withdrawal bill is concerned, that continues. It is trundling through
0:11:37 > 0:11:40the House of Commons. Huge amounts of detail to go through in terms of
0:11:40 > 0:11:45all that. The Government will hope that the prospect of any defeat
0:11:45 > 0:11:48there has been limited by something that falls into the category, I was
0:11:48 > 0:11:56told last week by one MP, being important but boring. This is the
0:11:56 > 0:11:59whole business of the procedure committee and the proposed sifting
0:11:59 > 0:12:07committee. Bear with me! The idea is that there can be more scrutiny of
0:12:07 > 0:12:10statutory instruments, some of the tools being used to push through a
0:12:10 > 0:12:17heck of a lot of detail in that bill.I'm glad you are a crush --
0:12:17 > 0:12:18across it all.
0:12:18 > 0:12:21I'm joined now by the Westminster leader of the SNP, Ian Blackford,
0:12:21 > 0:12:23and from central lobby by the Conservative
0:12:23 > 0:12:26MP Bernard Jenkin - who was on the board of the official
0:12:26 > 0:12:27Leave campaign group, Vote Leave.
0:12:27 > 0:12:30Dawn Butler and Andrew Mitchell are also still with me.
0:12:30 > 0:12:34Ian Blackford, first of all, you have made a pitch to Labour to join
0:12:34 > 0:12:38you in committing the UK to remaining in the customs union and
0:12:38 > 0:12:42single market - why?It is about protecting jobs and investment in
0:12:42 > 0:12:46the UK. If we are out with those, it will cost hundreds of thousands of
0:12:46 > 0:12:52jobs throughout the UK.Why have you made this pitch to Labour now?There
0:12:52 > 0:12:57is a growing concern as to where we may end up in phase two. I am asking
0:12:57 > 0:13:03Labour and other opposition parties and Conservative MPs to join with
0:13:03 > 0:13:07us. Nobody voted to be poorer, and what I would say to dawn and others
0:13:07 > 0:13:11is that we need to make sure we protect the interests of our
0:13:11 > 0:13:15constituencies. That is why remaining in is so important. Mike
0:13:15 > 0:13:20do you accept that overture from the SNP?I think position the Labour
0:13:20 > 0:13:27Party has taken from the very beginning is right, and has been
0:13:27 > 0:13:33proven to be right.What is it?The transitional arrangement and deal,
0:13:33 > 0:13:35and having a bespoke deal when it comes to the customs union. I think
0:13:35 > 0:13:42sometimes we forget, because it was well over a year ago, that Labour's
0:13:42 > 0:13:48position at the very beginning has been proven to be right.My question
0:13:48 > 0:13:52is, do you accept the SNP invitation to stay in the customs union and the
0:13:52 > 0:13:56single market and campaign with an? I understand what Ian is saying, but
0:13:56 > 0:14:02the thing is, that would mean that we would be ignoring the referendum,
0:14:02 > 0:14:07and the Labour Party has no intention of ignoring the
0:14:07 > 0:14:10referendum. We have said that we need a transitional arrangement and
0:14:10 > 0:14:14a way to maintain the benefits of the customs union and single market.
0:14:14 > 0:14:20But what's the difference between your position and the SNP's? As you
0:14:20 > 0:14:25said, Kia Starmer, he said we want to retain the same benefits as if we
0:14:25 > 0:14:30were in the single market and customs union. Essentially, what is
0:14:30 > 0:14:35the difference?Basically how we talk about it, in essence. We might
0:14:35 > 0:14:39not be able to say we are still in, but if we maintain the benefits,
0:14:39 > 0:14:44then, you know...You will call it something different but essentially
0:14:44 > 0:14:49it's the same?It is that once you leave, you can no longer be a member
0:14:49 > 0:14:53of the single market as it is.Do you see any difference between your
0:14:53 > 0:14:57position is?There is, and we have to be clear about the threat to jobs
0:14:57 > 0:15:01and prosperity. The point is, what the Tories have talked about before
0:15:01 > 0:15:05is coming out of the single market and customs union. Labour have
0:15:05 > 0:15:12accepted that we need a transition deal. The harsh reality is, through
0:15:12 > 0:15:16the transition deal, we will be in the single market and customs union.
0:15:16 > 0:15:21The cliff edge remains, but I am trying to remove the threat to jobs
0:15:21 > 0:15:24in our constituencies up and down the country. Nobody has voted to be
0:15:24 > 0:15:27poorer.
0:15:27 > 0:15:30You just said the government should expect to remain in the customs
0:15:30 > 0:15:34union and Single Market during the implementation period. Bernard
0:15:34 > 0:15:38Jenkin, do you agree with that and is that your understanding?I am
0:15:38 > 0:15:41listening with amazement because the Labour Party stood on a platform at
0:15:41 > 0:15:45the last election that they respected the referendum result
0:15:45 > 0:15:48which meant leaving the European Union, leaving the customs union and
0:15:48 > 0:15:51Single Market, and they had some words in the manifesto about trying
0:15:51 > 0:15:56to have the benefits of being in the Single Market and Customs union
0:15:56 > 0:15:59without actually being in it.What will happen in the implementation
0:15:59 > 0:16:03period as far as the government is concerned?Now we're hearing the
0:16:03 > 0:16:08Labour Party has moved a position that we don't leave the European
0:16:08 > 0:16:12Union and the fact Kier Starmer committed the Labour Party to a
0:16:12 > 0:16:14second referendum can only mean one thing, they are open to change the
0:16:14 > 0:16:18result, hoping to reverse the referendum decision, so the
0:16:18 > 0:16:24Conservative Party now is the only party apart from the DUP, these two
0:16:24 > 0:16:26parties in parliament, that actually want to honour the referendum result
0:16:26 > 0:16:32and deliver the freedom to control our own law decide on our own
0:16:32 > 0:16:36borders and stop contributing money to the European Union.Dawn Butler,
0:16:36 > 0:16:39are you committed, or can you rule out that Labour would ever support
0:16:39 > 0:16:43the idea of a second referendum?Can I just say that the problem with
0:16:43 > 0:16:46what was just said is that David Davis admitted he doesn't have to be
0:16:46 > 0:16:51very bright to do his job and beat Brexit Secretary and I think that is
0:16:51 > 0:16:55fundamentally what the problem is. Did he?He did and that is
0:16:55 > 0:17:01fundamentally the problem because you have to be across the detail and
0:17:01 > 0:17:04that's the problem with the negotiation.I am asking a question
0:17:04 > 0:17:08about the second referendum, is Labour going to support a second
0:17:08 > 0:17:11referendum?It is not something we are considering at the moment.But
0:17:11 > 0:17:16you might?As Keir Starmer said nothing is off the table and it's a
0:17:16 > 0:17:20sensible approach to negotiations and this is the problem we have had
0:17:20 > 0:17:23with this government, terms of having red lines, and after a year
0:17:23 > 0:17:27and a half having to then row back because they hadn't considered the
0:17:27 > 0:17:33detail. That's the problem.Bernard Jenkin, how do you envisage
0:17:33 > 0:17:38Britain's future relationship beyond Brexit in terms of trade?Well, the
0:17:38 > 0:17:41idea that the Cabinet has never discussed any of this, the position
0:17:41 > 0:17:46was set out in the manifesto that we are leaving the EU, leaving the
0:17:46 > 0:17:49customs union and the Single Market and we are going to be in a position
0:17:49 > 0:17:54to do meaningful trade deals with non-EU countries and that means we
0:17:54 > 0:18:00need to have regulatory autonomy. Most trade deals are not about
0:18:00 > 0:18:04negotiating about tariffs, is the icing on the cake to get rid of the
0:18:04 > 0:18:08tariffs. Most trade deals are about dismantling the nontariff barriers.
0:18:08 > 0:18:14So you do want to see regulate your autonomy?Absolutely.How worried
0:18:14 > 0:18:17are you about the idea that if a deal is and then they will be full
0:18:17 > 0:18:20alignment of the UK being tied closely to the EU standards and
0:18:20 > 0:18:25customs in order to maintain that open border with Ireland?We have
0:18:25 > 0:18:31clearly made a commitment to Ireland and to the EU that we want
0:18:31 > 0:18:38alignment. But every trade deal starts out with discussion about,
0:18:38 > 0:18:42you got to align with us and we have got to align with you post stop the
0:18:42 > 0:18:45advantage of this discussion about our trade deal with the EU is we
0:18:45 > 0:18:50already have complete alignment. The alignment in Northern Ireland is
0:18:50 > 0:18:56confined purely to the matters that pertain to the North-South
0:18:56 > 0:19:00co-operation in support of the agreement. In any case, this text
0:19:00 > 0:19:05will form part of a much bigger text of the withdrawal agreement and it
0:19:05 > 0:19:07is the withdrawal agreement as a whole that will have legally binding
0:19:07 > 0:19:12effect. This text on its own has no legal binding effect.This is a
0:19:12 > 0:19:16statement of intent as David Davis said, which upset the Irish
0:19:16 > 0:19:21government?The Irish hosted the Jolly Roger and had to pull it down
0:19:21 > 0:19:26again.Are you saying this agreement is not what the paper it is written
0:19:26 > 0:19:31on?I did not say that.You said it is not binding in any way.It is an
0:19:31 > 0:19:35agreement for the movement to the main stage of negotiations which is
0:19:35 > 0:19:39long overdue and the fact the EU almost begs Theresa May to make an
0:19:39 > 0:19:42agreement shows what a strong position in the United Kingdom is in
0:19:42 > 0:19:46and that we should stick to our guns. We should not finish up where
0:19:46 > 0:19:50Labour and the Liberal Democrats and SNP now want this country to be
0:19:50 > 0:19:54outside the European Union, unable to influence the decisions made,
0:19:54 > 0:19:58unable to influence the court, but subject to the court and all the
0:19:58 > 0:20:02rules and all the costs, and unable to do trade deals with the other
0:20:02 > 0:20:07countries outside the EU. That's the worst of all possible worlds.Why is
0:20:07 > 0:20:12it that Richard Tice from leave means leave says this is a total
0:20:12 > 0:20:16capitulation this deal, that the UK is paying far more that they are not
0:20:16 > 0:20:20legally bound to do in order to move on to Phase 2, that they have signed
0:20:20 > 0:20:28up to an arrangement where the UK could be tied for a generation to
0:20:28 > 0:20:31the EU in terms of customs and in terms of standards. There will not
0:20:31 > 0:20:36be the diversions you have talked about, -- divergences. The European
0:20:36 > 0:20:39Court of Justice will have jurisdiction over the rights of EU
0:20:39 > 0:20:42citizens during the implementation period and possibly beyond. Do you
0:20:42 > 0:20:46regard that as a success?That is not the Government's position,
0:20:46 > 0:20:50perhaps he's listening too much to the European Union, the Remainers
0:20:50 > 0:20:55and Remainers and SNP and Labour Party.I thought you supported Leave
0:20:55 > 0:20:58Means Leave.I am a supporter of Leave Means Leave but I don't agree
0:20:58 > 0:21:03with Richard on this point.Right, why not?If I could get a word in
0:21:03 > 0:21:09edgeways, please.Go on, finish.The point is that this is merely moving
0:21:09 > 0:21:13us to the next phase of negotiations and we are moving towards the trade
0:21:13 > 0:21:18negotiations with the EU. Both sides are setting out their positions on
0:21:18 > 0:21:22each side. There will have to be compromise, as there was comprised
0:21:22 > 0:21:26between Canada and the EU. To finish up the Canada plus plus plus and
0:21:26 > 0:21:32able to do trade deals with the United States, or even be able to
0:21:32 > 0:21:33participate in the Trans-Pacific Partnership which has been abandoned
0:21:33 > 0:21:38by the United States, which would welcome British participation. We
0:21:38 > 0:21:42have huge opportunities and must not throw these opportunities away by
0:21:42 > 0:21:46still being a prisoner of the EU.Do you think Britain is going to be a
0:21:46 > 0:21:50prisoner of the EU in the way Bernard Jenkin has outlined? Would
0:21:50 > 0:21:56you like to see the UK closely aligned to the Single Market and
0:21:56 > 0:22:01customs union?Let's be clear where we are. First of all we have reached
0:22:01 > 0:22:04first base successfully, we had a difficult week last week but it
0:22:04 > 0:22:06ended with triumph for the Prime Minister and we can now advance
0:22:06 > 0:22:11towards the second phase. My dispute with all my colleagues who have
0:22:11 > 0:22:14spoken on this programme so far is that I think they are slightly
0:22:14 > 0:22:19jumping the gun. The key is to get into the negotiations, Canada plus
0:22:19 > 0:22:23plus plus sounds to me like a very good starting point for the British
0:22:23 > 0:22:26negotiations. And at the end of the day, of course we are going to have
0:22:26 > 0:22:30to have a transition period, otherwise...Within the Single
0:22:30 > 0:22:34Market and customs union?A transition period. We have to have
0:22:34 > 0:22:40it otherwise businesses will not be to plan and make the necessary
0:22:40 > 0:22:43changes required. The key thing to me is to let the negotiator who is
0:22:43 > 0:22:46doing an extremely good job get on with negotiating the best position
0:22:46 > 0:22:48for Britain.Is that David Davis? Dawn Butler said he is not very
0:22:48 > 0:22:55bright.I would beg to differ.It is his own words.He has a brain like a
0:22:55 > 0:22:58steel trap, he is extremely bright, let the negotiator get on with
0:22:58 > 0:23:02negotiating the best deal for Britain. That is not either a hard
0:23:02 > 0:23:06or a soft Brexit, it's the best deal for Britain, the whole of Britain,
0:23:06 > 0:23:11that's what I want to see us advance towards.Do you see movement to
0:23:11 > 0:23:14Phase 2 is a statement of intent and not binding in any way?The
0:23:14 > 0:23:18principle outlined is binding absolutely.You disagree with
0:23:18 > 0:23:26Bernard Jenkin that it's all up for grabs?Bernard is quite rightly
0:23:26 > 0:23:28giving a technical appreciation but what I'm saying is that when the
0:23:28 > 0:23:30British government put up that point which secured agreement across the
0:23:30 > 0:23:35piece, that principle is certainly binding.Do you see the UK's future
0:23:35 > 0:23:39relationship as one that will be closely mirroring the European Union
0:23:39 > 0:23:43in terms of rules and regulations?I see the primacy and absolute
0:23:43 > 0:23:48importance of a free-trade deal as overruling all of that. That by
0:23:48 > 0:23:52definition means alignment to some extent. At a free-trade deal is an
0:23:52 > 0:23:56sooty essential for both of us.What in your mind, Dawn Butler, does easy
0:23:56 > 0:24:01movement of people mean?It means that some people say you have signed
0:24:01 > 0:24:04up to no movement, we're not signing up to no movement, there has to be
0:24:04 > 0:24:08movement.The end to freedom of movement is what the Labour
0:24:08 > 0:24:11manifesto said. So what does Keir Starmer mean when he says easy
0:24:11 > 0:24:16movement?Well, that is something that he will then develop in terms
0:24:16 > 0:24:21of detail.So he hasn't thought through what this is?The question
0:24:21 > 0:24:26he was answering was, are we saying there was no movement? Keir Starmer
0:24:26 > 0:24:29said there done that it's impossible to say there is no movement because
0:24:29 > 0:24:33we need movement of people in order for our economy, we will need
0:24:33 > 0:24:39movement of people but it won't look exactly as it looks now. So, there
0:24:39 > 0:24:43would be more stringent regimes around it in terms of how people are
0:24:43 > 0:24:48monitored in a doubt.What about the numbers, for example?We do not talk
0:24:48 > 0:24:58about caps and numbers. -- in and out. To be honest it's a part of the
0:24:58 > 0:25:01negotiation details if we were around the negotiating table that we
0:25:01 > 0:25:04could come back with more detail on. That's the kind of question you
0:25:04 > 0:25:07should be asking David Davis and the government in terms of what their
0:25:07 > 0:25:14plans are.Do you see in the coming months, Ian Blackford, that Labour
0:25:14 > 0:25:18will move its position to saying we should remain in this angle market
0:25:18 > 0:25:20and customs union, and then the two of you can forge a closer
0:25:20 > 0:25:24relationship on Brexit?Yes, that has got to happen because it has to
0:25:24 > 0:25:28be about protecting the interests of our constituents.Are you talking to
0:25:28 > 0:25:31Labour at the moment?I wrote to Jeremy Corbyn yesterday and I'm
0:25:31 > 0:25:35waiting for a reply and I said we should meet. The fundamentals of
0:25:35 > 0:25:38this is if we are in a situation that everybody accepts there is
0:25:38 > 0:25:42going to be alignment with the rules of the EU, the situation we are in
0:25:42 > 0:25:45today is they will be no border between Northern Ireland and the
0:25:45 > 0:25:48Republic. We know on the basis of the intervention of the DUP there
0:25:48 > 0:25:52will be no border between the island of Ireland and the rest of the
0:25:52 > 0:25:56United Kingdom. The only way you can square this is by staying in this on
0:25:56 > 0:25:59the market and customs union. Die-hard Brexiteers have taken the
0:25:59 > 0:26:04country up a blind alley and it hasn't worked. They have to accept
0:26:04 > 0:26:07that staying in the Single Market and customs union is the only
0:26:07 > 0:26:12logical way of resolving this. Bernard Jenkin, final word. Will you
0:26:12 > 0:26:15and do you store think Britain should pay for its obligations that
0:26:15 > 0:26:19it said it should honour even if you do get the trade deal you like?We
0:26:19 > 0:26:22have no obligations. We would like to offer the EU some money as a
0:26:22 > 0:26:26goodwill gesture for leaving the European Union midway during a
0:26:26 > 0:26:30budget period and that is reasonable enough. Two very quick points. There
0:26:30 > 0:26:35was never going to be a hard border between Northern Ireland and the
0:26:35 > 0:26:38Republic.That's not what the Irish government thought.If they wanted
0:26:38 > 0:26:42to have one that would be up to them but we would never have one. If they
0:26:42 > 0:26:44wanted to put infrastructure there that would be up to them and
0:26:44 > 0:26:48actually it would never happen. It was all a bluff and a nonsense. You
0:26:48 > 0:26:52don't need to police the border at the border in order to police the
0:26:52 > 0:26:56border with technology these days. The second thing about alignment.
0:26:56 > 0:27:00Alignment is a yes no question. Andrew is completely right. In any
0:27:00 > 0:27:05free-trade deal there are degrees of alignment. The point is under the
0:27:05 > 0:27:09new arrangements when we leave the EU, we will control what we choose
0:27:09 > 0:27:13to align with the EU instead of being dictated on what our
0:27:13 > 0:27:16regulatory regime should be.You say that but at the moment it doesn't
0:27:16 > 0:27:19sound like that.That is your opinion.That's the opinion
0:27:19 > 0:27:25expressed by many people, the term was used.You are obviously on their
0:27:25 > 0:27:33side.Whose side?You said you agree with them.I said the view was
0:27:33 > 0:27:38expressed. Bernard Jenkin, thank you.
0:27:38 > 0:27:42I should also say thank you to you, Ian Blackford.
0:27:42 > 0:27:45Now, Should the Bank of England be moved from London to Birmingham?
0:27:45 > 0:27:47The Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell, seen here protesting
0:27:47 > 0:27:50outside the Bank in London earlier this year, has today
0:27:50 > 0:27:52launched a report into what Labour are calling Financing Investment.
0:27:52 > 0:27:53The report recommends, among other things,
0:27:53 > 0:27:55that the the Old Lady of Threadneedle Street,
0:27:55 > 0:27:58as it's known, should be moved from the City
0:27:58 > 0:27:58to England's second city.
0:27:58 > 0:28:01It claims the move would spread investment across the country.
0:28:01 > 0:28:04Mr McDonnell said the report drums home the message that our financial
0:28:04 > 0:28:05system isn't delivering enough investment across
0:28:05 > 0:28:06the whole country.
0:28:06 > 0:28:09We're joined now by Graham Turner from GFC Economics who has
0:28:09 > 0:28:14authored today's report.
0:28:14 > 0:28:16Welcome to the programme. Would this be anything more than a symbolic
0:28:16 > 0:28:23move? Moving functions to Birmingham?I do not see it as
0:28:23 > 0:28:26tokenism, not a nod to devolution, it's a very necessary move to
0:28:26 > 0:28:30counter the big problems we have in this country around economic policy,
0:28:30 > 0:28:35huge regional imbalances, financial system geared far too much towards
0:28:35 > 0:28:38speculative lending, manufacturing lending has gone down dramatically
0:28:38 > 0:28:42in recent years and we have got to have a complete rethink about how
0:28:42 > 0:28:45economic policy is structured in this country.That maybe so but how
0:28:45 > 0:28:49does moving certain functions at the Bank of England deliver that?We
0:28:49 > 0:28:56have said clearly it's not just about moving that, it's about the
0:28:56 > 0:28:59mandate, the two side by side.What with the mandate the?We have not
0:28:59 > 0:29:03said what the mandate would be, this report is over 200 pages long and
0:29:03 > 0:29:13this will be in our next report. On the question of real -- relocation,
0:29:13 > 0:29:17we are looking at global hubs, London is one of them and it has a
0:29:17 > 0:29:21detrimental impact on other cities in the country. We can see it in the
0:29:21 > 0:29:23West and other countries. That's because technology is gravitating
0:29:23 > 0:29:28towards finance. You have to move some functions of finance in order
0:29:28 > 0:29:31for technology to be disbursed more evenly.How would that deliver
0:29:31 > 0:29:35regional equality in terms of investment?We need faster growing
0:29:35 > 0:29:40hubs in sectors that pay better -- jobs. It's not just fine as that
0:29:40 > 0:29:41pays welcome information, communication, professional and
0:29:41 > 0:29:46scientific technology services. If you move the control of finance away
0:29:46 > 0:29:51from the City of London you will not damage the City of London's outward
0:29:51 > 0:29:55look to the rest of the world. I think it would strengthen it. You
0:29:55 > 0:29:58would say to the Bank of England, you've got to look at rebalancing
0:29:58 > 0:30:00this country because it is damaging the whole of this country that we
0:30:00 > 0:30:03have one city where it is or becoming too expensive to do
0:30:03 > 0:30:09business.In terms of relocation, what specific functions are you
0:30:09 > 0:30:12talking about?We have not said the specific functions, and again we
0:30:12 > 0:30:15hope this could be in the follow-up report. What we have said this
0:30:15 > 0:30:18morning is that one has got to imagine we would be looking in the
0:30:18 > 0:30:22realm of some domestic banking functions. Can I just say that when
0:30:22 > 0:30:26we look at the Monetary Policy Committee, an important part of the
0:30:26 > 0:30:29Bank of England, ask yourself the question, how many of these fine
0:30:29 > 0:30:32individuals who have been on the MPC in the last few years have come from
0:30:32 > 0:30:36institutions outside of the Golden Triangle? Nobody from Scotland,
0:30:36 > 0:30:39Wales, I'm talking of the institution, nobody from Northern
0:30:39 > 0:30:43Ireland, so you get a bias towards London.Do you agree, this is part
0:30:43 > 0:30:48of the world that isn't so far from you, there was a relocation?I
0:30:48 > 0:30:51represent the town of royal Sutton Coldfield up against the walls of
0:30:51 > 0:30:53Birmingham and I'm always pleased to see the investment coming to
0:30:53 > 0:30:56Birmingham. I thought the Bank of England did have a specific office
0:30:56 > 0:31:01in Birmingham. It certainly did a few years ago.But would you support
0:31:01 > 0:31:05more functions being moved on the basis of what Graham is saying, that
0:31:05 > 0:31:11it would somehow tilt the institution bias away from London?
0:31:11 > 0:31:15He hasn't put any flesh on the bones of what this would mean, but in
0:31:15 > 0:31:19terms of regional policy, I think what he says goes with the grain of
0:31:19 > 0:31:23a lot of what the Government is doing. We now have for the first
0:31:23 > 0:31:28time a really effective and very strong Mayor in the West Midlands,
0:31:28 > 0:31:33Andy Street.A conservative.A Mayor, it is a new structure. He is
0:31:33 > 0:31:40galvanising the region's economic future. In terms of getting
0:31:40 > 0:31:43policy-making out of London, that is something the Government is doing,
0:31:43 > 0:31:50and it seems to me that this isn't a million miles away.It is quite
0:31:50 > 0:31:56different. I am not against devolution, but control of economic
0:31:56 > 0:32:00policy, having lending and interest rate decisions based around the
0:32:00 > 0:32:04needs of the whole country, that's what I'm talking about.I'm not sure
0:32:04 > 0:32:12that being in Birmingham does that. It does make a difference, and that
0:32:12 > 0:32:17is why London does well. If you put an institution in one place
0:32:17 > 0:32:23physically,... Clusters become self feeding, which is what all the
0:32:23 > 0:32:27research says. We need to break that tendency towards ever more
0:32:27 > 0:32:33concentration of economic power in cities.In the growth of the Nando's
0:32:33 > 0:32:39services in Britain's second city, and HSBC have their UK headquarters
0:32:39 > 0:32:44in Birmingham, so in terms of a power shift, moving jobs and
0:32:44 > 0:32:48services throughout the country, burning is already ahead on that.On
0:32:48 > 0:32:54decisions like interest rates, are you saying that relocating functions
0:32:54 > 0:32:57to Birmingham might influence or change the way the Bank of England
0:32:57 > 0:33:01makes decisions?We are saying it needs to change the way it looks at
0:33:01 > 0:33:05decisions around the whole economy. Which decisions would be different
0:33:05 > 0:33:11if they were in Birmingham?We have an incredible focus on speculative
0:33:11 > 0:33:16lending. Financial stability ports are all about capitalising the bank.
0:33:16 > 0:33:20There is very little about the fact that we run this huge deficit in
0:33:20 > 0:33:26manufacturing, what it means in terms of wages, consumer credit, so
0:33:26 > 0:33:31we need a wider discussion about financial stability. It is not just
0:33:31 > 0:33:35about the banks having enough capital. The Bank of England is
0:33:35 > 0:33:39still fighting the battle of ten years ago. They didn't see what was
0:33:39 > 0:33:43coming with the financial crisis, so it is busy trying to repair the
0:33:43 > 0:33:53mistakes of ten years ago. We are seeing an impact of technology on
0:33:53 > 0:33:57wages, on automation. We need to support manufacturing and high-value
0:33:57 > 0:34:01services.Argue worried about automation?No, but I am worried
0:34:01 > 0:34:06about whether UK is. There are countries that are ahead of us,
0:34:06 > 0:34:12including the US. We are falling well behind.Does Labour accept this
0:34:12 > 0:34:16recommendation from Graham Turner? In the round, yes. It means
0:34:16 > 0:34:22investing in a new generation, in productive industries. I completely
0:34:22 > 0:34:27understand it. You are building an environment where more people want
0:34:27 > 0:34:33to feed into it, so more people will go to university or learn the
0:34:33 > 0:34:37financial industry. When you move something somewhere else, you will
0:34:37 > 0:34:45build a movement around that so I completely understand that.Has the
0:34:45 > 0:34:50Northern Power has delivered what the Government set out?We said in
0:34:50 > 0:34:56our report that just building train lines, great, but the danger is that
0:34:56 > 0:35:00you just create long-distance commuters. That does not create
0:35:00 > 0:35:06clusters. We want knowledge capitals.I think that is how we
0:35:06 > 0:35:10will improve our standing in the rest of the world.Have you been
0:35:10 > 0:35:13disappointed with the lack of proper funding behind the Northern
0:35:13 > 0:35:21Powerhouse?No, I think the Northern Powerhouse, which was dreamt up by
0:35:21 > 0:35:24the Coalition Government, has made a big contribution. We're making good
0:35:24 > 0:35:28progress in the Midlands in the way that I described, through having
0:35:28 > 0:35:33this outstandingly good Mayor.Think you for joining us.
0:35:33 > 0:35:35Now, Christmas might be approaching, but that doesn't mean MPs
0:35:35 > 0:35:37are taking their foot off the gas just yet.
0:35:37 > 0:35:39And it's another busy week in Westminster and beyond.
0:35:39 > 0:35:42Tomorrow, the Prime Minister will be in Paris attending climate change
0:35:42 > 0:35:43talks with around 50 world leaders.
0:35:43 > 0:35:46The One Plant Summit aims to boost political and economic support
0:35:46 > 0:35:48for meeting the goals set out in the Paris agreement
0:35:48 > 0:35:50two years ago.
0:35:50 > 0:35:52Meanwhile, MPs will once again be focussing
0:35:52 > 0:35:53on the European Union Withdrawal Bill.
0:35:53 > 0:35:56MPs will debate an amendment tabled by former Attorney General Dominic
0:35:56 > 0:35:58Grieve which says the promise of a "meaningful vote"
0:35:58 > 0:36:05for Parliament on any Brexit deal should be enshrined in law.
0:36:05 > 0:36:07On Wednesday, Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn will face each
0:36:07 > 0:36:11other in the House of Commons at Prime Minister's Questions and )
0:36:11 > 0:36:15On Thursday it's the start of the EU leaders' Summit which will decide
0:36:15 > 0:36:17whether sufficient progress has been made in the negotiations
0:36:17 > 0:36:20has been achieved.
0:36:20 > 0:36:22Theresa May will be informed whether or not trade
0:36:22 > 0:36:26and transition talks can begin.
0:36:26 > 0:36:28For more on this, I'm joined by the Telegraph's Kate McCann
0:36:28 > 0:36:35and Politico's Jack Blanchard.
0:36:35 > 0:36:39Welcome to both of you. Kate McCann, first, it is a busy week, and there
0:36:39 > 0:36:42has been some expectation that it will be difficult to keep everyone
0:36:42 > 0:36:47on board before the deal is rubber-stamped on Friday. Where do
0:36:47 > 0:36:51you think the areas of concern would be for the Government?I think we
0:36:51 > 0:36:55will see where those areas of concern are over the course of
0:36:55 > 0:36:58today, because Theresa May is chairing her cabinet meeting this
0:36:58 > 0:37:03morning. There have been conversations over the weekend about
0:37:03 > 0:37:08concern, particularly David Davies yesterday about the Northern Ireland
0:37:08 > 0:37:11aspect of the agreement made last week, and then we will see her face
0:37:11 > 0:37:15MPs in the House of Commons later. I would be surprised if there weren't
0:37:15 > 0:37:20some interventions from her own backbenchers on what the deal struck
0:37:20 > 0:37:23with the EU means, on Northern Ireland and other issues. And then
0:37:23 > 0:37:27we will come to the trade talks. That is what the Government is
0:37:27 > 0:37:30hoping for. And that will open a new can of worms about exactly what type
0:37:30 > 0:37:40of trade deal the EU wants -- the UK wants with the EU, and trade deals
0:37:40 > 0:37:47around the world.There has been talk of not wanting to stay closely
0:37:47 > 0:37:51tied to the EU but keeping regulatory alignment - what do you
0:37:51 > 0:37:56make about?It sounds incredibly boring, but it's actually really
0:37:56 > 0:38:02important, this stuff.For that!We have these terms that we are getting
0:38:02 > 0:38:06to grips with. It is about what sort of country Britain is going to be in
0:38:06 > 0:38:10the future, how much it is aligned with rules and regulations from
0:38:10 > 0:38:14Europe and how much we go our own way. It is a huge debate raging in
0:38:14 > 0:38:17Government, and it has been for a few weeks. It is about to explode
0:38:17 > 0:38:22onto the surface in the Cabinet, which is very divided on this. It is
0:38:22 > 0:38:26long-term future of the nation stuff, so people like Bernard Jenkin
0:38:26 > 0:38:31are very much trying to push Theresa May in a certain direction where
0:38:31 > 0:38:35Britain will get a clean break go off into the world and have its own
0:38:35 > 0:38:42rules and leg relations about all of things. -- rules and regulations. It
0:38:42 > 0:38:46is a hugely important issue, but no one has really started to debate or
0:38:46 > 0:38:51they are only just starting now, and I think they will hear a lot about
0:38:51 > 0:38:54these long boring terms about regulatory alignment over the next
0:38:54 > 0:38:59few months. We had better get used them. In terms of the statement of
0:38:59 > 0:39:03intent, David Davies himself seemed to cast doubt on how binding the
0:39:03 > 0:39:07agreement actually was, this idea that nothing is agreed until
0:39:07 > 0:39:11everything is agreed. Does that make it more difficult to keep everyone
0:39:11 > 0:39:14together until Friday?I think we will see the Prime Minister that
0:39:14 > 0:39:20again today, and there is a reason for that. It is exactly as you say,
0:39:20 > 0:39:23that they want to be able to give themselves enough leeway because
0:39:23 > 0:39:27they know the divisions on these issues, as Jack just said, are so
0:39:27 > 0:39:32huge that it is impossible to tie them down. What we saw with the DUP
0:39:32 > 0:39:35last week I think they will see again. The issue was pushed and
0:39:35 > 0:39:39pushed until the last minute, when people really kicked off about it,
0:39:39 > 0:39:42but in quite a short space of time, because there is a deadline for
0:39:42 > 0:39:49agreement, it is not then the Prime Minister's interest to open it up
0:39:49 > 0:39:53and talk about it early, because that exposes these huge chasms of
0:39:53 > 0:40:00opinion earlier. It will be difficult to bridge those. You will
0:40:00 > 0:40:03see Theresa May try to keep it as open as she can, and that is what
0:40:03 > 0:40:06David Davies was doing over the weekend, though it looks like he
0:40:06 > 0:40:10went too far, because as soon as you say it is really open, the Irish
0:40:10 > 0:40:14Government says, that is not what we want to hear and is problematic.
0:40:14 > 0:40:18They are trying a balancing act of keeping everyone in the boat without
0:40:18 > 0:40:22too tipping -- tipping too far one way because they will have to pull
0:40:22 > 0:40:28people back over the site.David Davis this morning very much
0:40:28 > 0:40:35backtracking on how far he went on the Andrew Marr Show yesterday. This
0:40:35 > 0:40:39still hasn't been signed off. The European Commission have agreed it
0:40:39 > 0:40:43but Theresa May has this summit on Thursday when the other 27 countries
0:40:43 > 0:40:49have to sign it. For her to say that it is not worth the paper it is
0:40:49 > 0:40:53written on is not really a smart tactic.Damian Green and his future
0:40:53 > 0:40:58- why haven't we heard anything more about that since the investigation
0:40:58 > 0:41:03has been ongoing and the report has been added to Theresa May?Is when
0:41:03 > 0:41:11we get towards Christmas, the question will get bigger. As you
0:41:11 > 0:41:14say, we know she has been given an update on the progress, and we know
0:41:14 > 0:41:20that most people who were involved in the investigation have so far
0:41:20 > 0:41:23given their evidence, and therefore, we should see a conclusion of that
0:41:23 > 0:41:28investigation soon, if not already. Over the course of this week,
0:41:28 > 0:41:30Theresa May will want her Government to focus on Brexit and probably
0:41:30 > 0:41:37won't want to have to talk about Damian Green.It is taking such a
0:41:37 > 0:41:43long time. It is supposed to be independent, not up to the Prime
0:41:43 > 0:41:50Minister when it comes back. There is another enquiry into a Mark
0:41:50 > 0:41:57Garnier. Questions will mount. Andrew Mitchell, a couple of points
0:41:57 > 0:42:02- Damian Green - do you think there needs to be a decision made before
0:42:02 > 0:42:10Christmas?I am sure there will be a decision. I think he is doing a very
0:42:10 > 0:42:13good job as effectively the Deputy Prime Minister and I hope he will
0:42:13 > 0:42:21continue.He has had an investigation into him. Theresa May
0:42:21 > 0:42:26said there must be zero tolerance of sexual harassment in Parliament, and
0:42:26 > 0:42:31Michael Fallon resigned because he said his behaviour was below the
0:42:31 > 0:42:35expected standards, so what should happen in terms of Damian Green?I
0:42:35 > 0:42:39have seen no evidence at all of harassment by Damian Green, but
0:42:39 > 0:42:45there has been an investigation. I can't second-guess that. As I say, I
0:42:45 > 0:42:50think he's a very good minister and I'm sure he will survive.Let's turn
0:42:50 > 0:42:54to the withdrawal bill. Dominic grieve's Amendment, your collar,
0:42:54 > 0:42:59which would force a truly meaningful vote on the final EU deal, meaning
0:42:59 > 0:43:03that MPs like yourselves would have the chance to send Theresa May back
0:43:03 > 0:43:07to Brussels, would you support it? We will see what happens in the
0:43:07 > 0:43:10debate, but I am certain the Government will want to agree to a
0:43:10 > 0:43:15meaningful vote. I think we will have to see how the amendment goes.
0:43:15 > 0:43:18I will be surprised if the Government resisted that amendment.
0:43:18 > 0:43:23You think they will give way?I think it is a sensible amendment,
0:43:23 > 0:43:26and Dominic grieve has already improved the bill quite
0:43:26 > 0:43:29significantly. I think the Government will listen to what
0:43:29 > 0:43:32Dominic has to say.You would be prepared to vote for it that the
0:43:32 > 0:43:36Government doesn't come from ice? Lets see where we get to, but I
0:43:36 > 0:43:42think it is a sensible amendment.We had an opposition day debate where
0:43:42 > 0:43:45we put that question on the floor of the House, and it went through.That
0:43:45 > 0:43:50is different from putting it on the face of the bill.But the will of
0:43:50 > 0:43:54the House has been made clear.I think it is sensible that the House
0:43:54 > 0:43:57should have a meaningful vote, and I don't think the Government will want
0:43:57 > 0:44:08to resist that.
0:44:12 > 0:44:16A couple of weeks ago, we took a look at the people in key
0:44:16 > 0:44:17positions behind the scenes in Downing Street.
0:44:17 > 0:44:20But what about that other SW1 power base, Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party?
0:44:20 > 0:44:23Here's Emma Vardy with the latest instalment of our occasional series
0:44:23 > 0:44:24Westminster Village.
0:44:24 > 0:44:26Jeremy Corbyn spent years as a backbencher looking
0:44:26 > 0:44:28at Parliamentary offices not much bigger than a
0:44:28 > 0:44:29cupboard.
0:44:29 > 0:44:32But now he and his top team have a whole floor to
0:44:32 > 0:44:33themselves.
0:44:33 > 0:44:34It's even got a nice balcony.
0:44:34 > 0:44:36The executive director of the leader's office is Karie
0:44:36 > 0:44:37Murphy.
0:44:37 > 0:44:44She used to work for the deputy leader Tom Watson.
0:44:44 > 0:44:46And we thought we'd dig this out of the
0:44:46 > 0:44:47archives one more time.
0:44:47 > 0:44:50Her reaction to our mood box testing opinion on the Shadow Cabinet.
0:44:50 > 0:44:52This is a stunt by ill informed people.
0:44:52 > 0:44:53Nice to meet you too.
0:44:53 > 0:44:55And meet a man known as Jeremy Corbyn's brain.
0:44:55 > 0:44:57We don't talk about economic rights
0:44:57 > 0:44:59and I think people need economic rights.
0:44:59 > 0:45:01Andrew Fisher used to take to the stage himself, like at this
0:45:01 > 0:45:02trade union event.
0:45:02 > 0:45:05But he's now more of a behind-the-scenes guy working
0:45:05 > 0:45:06as Corbyn's head of policy.
0:45:06 > 0:45:08Didn't Thatcher promise us this?
0:45:08 > 0:45:11Seamus Milne is a top spin doctor and rumoured to be
0:45:11 > 0:45:13the man who got JC to smarten up his image.
0:45:13 > 0:45:15He's a former Guardian journalist and now trusted close
0:45:15 > 0:45:19aide.
0:45:19 > 0:45:21The MPs are incredibly out of touch, I think.
0:45:21 > 0:45:24That's why we've seen these shocks in politics.
0:45:24 > 0:45:26Seen here on the day of the EU referendum
0:45:26 > 0:45:30result, James Schneider looks after strategy in the comms team.
0:45:30 > 0:45:33He's an ex-Lib Dem and Greens supporter and
0:45:33 > 0:45:36was previously on our screens representing the pro-Corbyn
0:45:36 > 0:45:40grassroots organisation Momentum.
0:45:40 > 0:45:42Politics has changed.
0:45:42 > 0:45:44We are in this sort of national crisis period.
0:45:44 > 0:45:46Corbyn's inner circle also includes Amy Jackson,
0:45:46 > 0:45:48political secretary, and
0:45:48 > 0:45:50former MP Katy Clark, who is looking into
0:45:50 > 0:45:52potentially big changes that
0:45:52 > 0:45:57will give Labour Party members more power.
0:45:57 > 0:46:05And after his recent shoot with GQ magazine, the editor later
0:46:05 > 0:46:07said Corbyn's entourage pushed him about like a grandad.
0:46:07 > 0:46:09The actual shoot itself was quite torturous.
0:46:09 > 0:46:11It was as difficult as shooting any Hollywood celebrity.
0:46:11 > 0:46:12Really?
0:46:12 > 0:46:15It's not all fun and celebrity appearances, you know?
0:46:15 > 0:46:17This is where the party machine operates from.
0:46:17 > 0:46:22Labour HQ in the heart of Westminster.
0:46:22 > 0:46:25Iain McNicol is the General Secretary of the Labour
0:46:25 > 0:46:26Party, its organisational chief.
0:46:26 > 0:46:28The other key figures in the Corbyn camp
0:46:28 > 0:46:38are his family.
0:46:39 > 0:46:42As we learned in this fly-on-the-wall Vice
0:46:42 > 0:46:44documentary, he married his Mexican wife Laura Alvarez in 2013, after
0:46:44 > 0:46:47they had a long-distance relationship when she was working in
0:46:47 > 0:46:49banking back home.
0:46:49 > 0:46:52And here's Seb Corbyn, Jeremy's second son.
0:46:52 > 0:46:55After working on his dad's election campaign in 2015, Seb was appointed
0:46:55 > 0:47:02Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell's Chief of Staff.
0:47:02 > 0:47:05And these days, behind-the-scenes, I can also reveal
0:47:05 > 0:47:07that Corbyn has a personal dresser, his own Bentley driver, a private
0:47:07 > 0:47:09butler...
0:47:09 > 0:47:12Not really, this was his spoof appearance on The Last Leg
0:47:12 > 0:47:18comedy programme, of course.
0:47:18 > 0:47:20You're more likely to see him like this.
0:47:20 > 0:47:21Good morning.
0:47:21 > 0:47:24Nice to see you all, thank you so much for coming.
0:47:31 > 0:47:34Jeremy Corbyn back in normal attire and back on his bike.
0:47:34 > 0:47:36I'm now joined by Kevin Maguire, associate editor
0:47:36 > 0:47:37of the Daily Mirror.
0:47:37 > 0:47:41Welcome to The Daily Politics. How has the operation changed at Labour
0:47:41 > 0:47:44since the general election?I think it has continued since the general
0:47:44 > 0:47:48election, they are fine tuning it, but the big changes were when he
0:47:48 > 0:47:51first became leader and people came in and he wasn't quite sure where he
0:47:51 > 0:47:54wanted to go, there was a lot of discord. Then he seemed to sort it
0:47:54 > 0:47:58out after that attempt to topple him and he went into the election and
0:47:58 > 0:48:02did far better than even he thought, now he can just feel some authority
0:48:02 > 0:48:09and competence around that team. The crucial player is Karie Murphy, the
0:48:09 > 0:48:12chief of staff, who is kind of a good friend bad enemy but she gets
0:48:12 > 0:48:16things done and that's really important.So who else does Jeremy
0:48:16 > 0:48:25Corbyn really listen to? Karie Murphy and Seamus Milne.The thin
0:48:25 > 0:48:29controller, he was at the Guardian. He's hugely intellectual and knows
0:48:29 > 0:48:32what he is coming from politically and ideologically and he is
0:48:32 > 0:48:37physically capable of shouting -- incapable of shouting. Is very calm.
0:48:37 > 0:48:43But is the big political influence behind Jeremy Corbyn?There are many
0:48:43 > 0:48:46political influences, there are people like Dawn, Diane Abbott, John
0:48:46 > 0:48:51McDonnell, they have a lot of influence. Len McCluskey from the
0:48:51 > 0:48:55trade unions. But in the office Seamus Milne is more than a spin
0:48:55 > 0:48:58doctor. He does have a role on strategy and that's not to say there
0:48:58 > 0:49:01are not disagreements within the team. But they seem relatively
0:49:01 > 0:49:06harmonious, and more so than I believe Ed Miliband's team, a really
0:49:06 > 0:49:09bright team, but there seems to be too much competition in turn of the.
0:49:09 > 0:49:13So there is a sort of sense of purpose, unity in terms of sense of
0:49:13 > 0:49:21purpose. Will it strike people as odd that quite a few of his advisers
0:49:21 > 0:49:24are public school educated and even from the same school, Winchester?It
0:49:24 > 0:49:26is clearly a very popular school in the Jeremy Corbyn office. James
0:49:26 > 0:49:30Schneider is a Bollinger Bolshevik, Seamus Milne himself... It is a bit
0:49:30 > 0:49:39odd. I agree. I suspect the working class, the cloth cap, the whippet on
0:49:39 > 0:49:44a bit of string comes in the Labour Party chair who is a former coal
0:49:44 > 0:49:48miner. It is a bit strange but left-wing politics, like right-wing
0:49:48 > 0:49:52politics, are often dominated at the top by people from private schools.
0:49:52 > 0:49:57The Conservative Party has never been short of them itself, has it?
0:49:57 > 0:50:02No, indeed. Turn into the grassroots organisation Momentum which backed
0:50:02 > 0:50:04Jeremy Corbyn. How important is it in terms of the day-to-day running
0:50:04 > 0:50:09of his office?Day-to-day running of his office, not that important, but
0:50:09 > 0:50:15in terms of organising around the conference, there will be selections
0:50:15 > 0:50:18of councillors, candidates and parliamentary elections, although I
0:50:18 > 0:50:22think it's massively overstated in terms of deselection. It is then
0:50:22 > 0:50:26very important. The one thing Jeremy Corbyn has that Ed Miliband didn't
0:50:26 > 0:50:29is a social movement, he has people joining who will do a lot of the
0:50:29 > 0:50:33heavy lifting, the leaflet delivering, going along to meetings
0:50:33 > 0:50:36in constituencies.In fact, the founder of that organisation, Jon
0:50:36 > 0:50:40Lansman, what's the relationship between -- what is the relationship
0:50:40 > 0:50:44between him and Jeremy Corbyn.Very close, that's not to say there is
0:50:44 > 0:50:48not friction between Corbyn's office and Jeremy Landsman who has one foot
0:50:48 > 0:50:55in a one foot out.Jon Lansman.You have conflated them. Jon Lansman in
0:50:55 > 0:51:01the 80s was a very sectarian figure. I believe listening and watching and
0:51:01 > 0:51:05talking to people around him now he is a lot less sectarian and he will
0:51:05 > 0:51:09now reach out. There is a lot of MPs who don't like him, they dislike him
0:51:09 > 0:51:12because their parties have a lot of new people coming in, they don't
0:51:12 > 0:51:16know who they are, they are being challenged in ways they were not
0:51:16 > 0:51:27used to. But Momentum is on the 1980s.He said it is worse.It is
0:51:27 > 0:51:31nonsense. I remember the 80s, I've got grey hair, I remember them at
0:51:31 > 0:51:35the time. Momentum is very different. Most people in Momentum
0:51:35 > 0:51:39seem to be quite young and idealistic.What about the impact on
0:51:39 > 0:51:43voters? There isn't anything sort of materially different for the public
0:51:43 > 0:51:47in terms of the changes at the top, except if we take your word that
0:51:47 > 0:51:52actually there is more unity. That, of course, the public might notice.
0:51:52 > 0:51:55They might also notice the manifesto, for instance, which
0:51:55 > 0:52:00Andrew Bishop, featured there, who some MPs wanted kicked out of the
0:52:00 > 0:52:04party over sin tweets he said before the 2015 election which would the
0:52:04 > 0:52:13rocketry about some -- which were derogatory about some Labour MPs. --
0:52:13 > 0:52:24some tweets. They spend months, and years developing the manifesto.
0:52:24 > 0:52:27Those mass rallies that get a lot of publicity, they don't happen on
0:52:27 > 0:52:30their own, some he has to organise it, somebody has to think about it,
0:52:30 > 0:52:34Summer Rae has to get in there.How much influence do you have on
0:52:34 > 0:52:37day-to-day running at how close are you to Jeremy Corbyn?Not day-to-day
0:52:37 > 0:52:41because there are lots of things I have to do in my role. But the times
0:52:41 > 0:52:49that I'm there in Jeremy's office and working with the team, they are
0:52:49 > 0:52:56phenomenal as a group of people.Do you contribute?Occasionally, if I
0:52:56 > 0:52:59have something to contribute of course they will listen. That's the
0:52:59 > 0:53:03thing about the teams, everybody listens, even if there is
0:53:03 > 0:53:06disagreement, you listen and talk it through and come out at the end of
0:53:06 > 0:53:09it all in agreement. The reason why Andrew was able to produce such
0:53:09 > 0:53:13fantastic manifesto in three weeks was because it was the Court of the
0:53:13 > 0:53:19Labour Party's believes what's amazing -- it was the core of the
0:53:19 > 0:53:22Labour Party.Does Jeremy Corbyn agree wholeheartedly with Kier
0:53:22 > 0:53:27Starmer on the direction in terms of Britain's relationship to the EU?Of
0:53:27 > 0:53:32course. Kier Starmer, as I said, he is a guy of detail and has gone
0:53:32 > 0:53:35through every detail. Jack was right it becomes laborious and boring
0:53:35 > 0:53:38talking about all of this and you need somebody who will go through
0:53:38 > 0:53:43the detail and embrace the detail and say this is where we need to be
0:53:43 > 0:53:46in our negotiating positions.That is why I asked if they are on the
0:53:46 > 0:53:50same page.I don't think they are. Keir Starmer has been trying to pull
0:53:50 > 0:53:54the Labour leadership towards a more pro-EU position for sometime around
0:53:54 > 0:53:59the Single Market and customs union. It is a work in progress albeit
0:53:59 > 0:54:02there are divisions quite clearly. What about the divisions in Cabinet?
0:54:02 > 0:54:07How will that happen with the future negotiations?There is a form to
0:54:07 > 0:54:11these things, there is a Cabinet discussion pending on what stage two
0:54:11 > 0:54:15of the important negotiations looks like. That's about more than just
0:54:15 > 0:54:19the EU, it's about global Britain, what is global Britain mean. There
0:54:19 > 0:54:23is not a lot of flesh on the bones at the moment. The way these things
0:54:23 > 0:54:26happen is the Cabinet will discuss it and the Prime Minister will make
0:54:26 > 0:54:30a decision and in collective responsibility binds everyone in. I
0:54:30 > 0:54:37am certain the Conservative Party, the government, will require a
0:54:37 > 0:54:39collective responsibility to be exerted when that moment comes.You
0:54:39 > 0:54:41don't expect any more briefings?I think they will decide to let the
0:54:41 > 0:54:44negotiated to get on with doing the negotiations and will back him.
0:54:44 > 0:54:51Kevin Maguire, thank you.
0:54:51 > 0:54:55Last night saw an unusual thing happening, a conservative winning
0:54:55 > 0:55:03the vote of the youth.The new Queen of the Jungle.Georgia Toffolo of
0:55:03 > 0:55:07made in Chelsea fame was crowned the new Queen of the jungle in a tense
0:55:07 > 0:55:12but dumber final of ITV's I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here!. But
0:55:12 > 0:55:15she was not the only conservative leaning public figure to win a vote
0:55:15 > 0:55:18recently. New Conservative MP Ben Bradlee snatched victory in the
0:55:18 > 0:55:22coveted beard of the year contest, dethroning Jeremy Corbyn for the
0:55:22 > 0:55:26first time in years and becoming the first ever Conservative MP to win
0:55:26 > 0:55:29the competition in the process. Here he is talking about his historic
0:55:29 > 0:55:31victory.
0:55:31 > 0:55:32I've heard the big news that apparently
0:55:32 > 0:55:38I have been successful in
0:55:38 > 0:55:40my campaign to be Parliamentary Beard of The Year.
0:55:40 > 0:55:41Now, obviously this is pretty exciting.
0:55:41 > 0:55:43I am flushed with emotion.
0:55:43 > 0:55:43Flushed.
0:55:43 > 0:55:45And I need to immediately thank everybody
0:55:45 > 0:55:47who has supported and voted for me.
0:55:47 > 0:55:51It was like general election night all over again.
0:55:51 > 0:55:56He is genuinely thrilled. Is the tide turning for Conservatives and
0:55:56 > 0:56:01the youth vote?
0:56:01 > 0:56:04You can perhaps sense my tongue is ever so slightly in my cheek here.
0:56:04 > 0:56:07But to discuss this I'm joined by Joe Twyman of YouGov.
0:56:07 > 0:56:09What do you think? Has the tide turned?It's easy to over interpret
0:56:09 > 0:56:20some of the things we see on TV. Toff did when and she was a
0:56:20 > 0:56:24conservative but the important thing is she is a reality TV star. If you
0:56:24 > 0:56:28look at the results of I'm a celeb to me out of here the winners have
0:56:28 > 0:56:32been reality TV stars, essentially people used to playing the role of a
0:56:32 > 0:56:36normal person on TV. When you compare her to the actual
0:56:36 > 0:56:40politicians, Kezia Dugdale and Stanley Johnson, you see that they
0:56:40 > 0:56:43really don't do very well at all. Neither of them made it into the
0:56:43 > 0:56:49final five. And also, do we know that the people voting for her were
0:56:49 > 0:56:53necessarily young people? I don't know much about the voting for it
0:56:53 > 0:56:57but I would imagine that the more accurate data we have around two
0:56:57 > 0:57:01thirds of new entrants into the electorate, for instance, voting
0:57:01 > 0:57:05Labour suggests the Conservatives still have some way to go.The
0:57:05 > 0:57:10politics is really incidental?I would say when it comes to reality
0:57:10 > 0:57:14TV, politics is one thing and the ability to eat an animal's genitals
0:57:14 > 0:57:19is perhaps far more important. I'm not suggesting that if Theresa May
0:57:19 > 0:57:23or Jeremy Corbyn were to eat animal genitals they necessarily would
0:57:23 > 0:57:25increase their popularity, even if it was televised. But we really
0:57:25 > 0:57:31don't know.Thank you for that focus just before lunchtime on that issue,
0:57:31 > 0:57:35it turned my stomach somewhat. Are there any other areas in which young
0:57:35 > 0:57:39Conservatives, if that is the way they are voting, are either
0:57:39 > 0:57:43supporting or performing better in these sorts of competitions?What I
0:57:43 > 0:57:47think is really interesting, talking seriously now, is the fact we are
0:57:47 > 0:57:50seeing celebrities. My senses we are seeing celebrities more open about
0:57:50 > 0:57:55their political allegiances, indeed either side. If you look back to the
0:57:55 > 0:57:59EU referendum it was difficult to find a younger celebrity, 70 under
0:57:59 > 0:58:06the age of 30, who would be drawn on whether they were Remain or Leave.
0:58:06 > 0:58:11Generally speaking most were keeping quiet. -- certainly under the age of
0:58:11 > 0:58:1530. We have seen more people engaged in the political process and that is
0:58:15 > 0:58:17reflected in celebrities.Thank you very much.
0:58:17 > 0:58:20There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.
0:58:20 > 0:58:23Do you remember the question you two?
0:58:23 > 0:58:25Over the weekend Theresa May decorate a Christmas tree
0:58:25 > 0:58:27in her church in her constituency.
0:58:27 > 0:58:29So, the question for today was, what did she put
0:58:29 > 0:58:31on the top of the tree?
0:58:31 > 0:58:35Was it a) A gold star b) An angel c) A silver shoe or d) A bauble
0:58:35 > 0:58:37with of Jean-Claude Juncker face on it.
0:58:37 > 0:58:39I reckon she has thrown a few shoes in this negotiation process.I think
0:58:39 > 0:58:45we are agreed. I think that the bauble...It was not the bauble.It
0:58:45 > 0:58:49would have looked very good but I think it was the shoe which wins it.
0:58:49 > 0:58:53You are right, it was heels all around at the top of the tree, well
0:58:53 > 0:58:56done. You can have the bauble with Jean-Claude Juncker's face on it
0:58:56 > 0:59:00instead. Thank you to our guests Dawn and Andrew and I will be back
0:59:00 > 0:59:02tomorrow at noon. Goodbye.