0:00:38 > 0:00:40Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
0:00:40 > 0:00:42Inflation reaches a six year high as it continues
0:00:42 > 0:00:45to run well ahead of wages.
0:00:45 > 0:00:49How much worse off will it make us feel?
0:00:49 > 0:00:52World political and business leaders gather in Paris to discuss progress
0:00:52 > 0:00:55in tackling climate change, but how much can be achieved
0:00:55 > 0:01:00when the President of the world's second biggest polluter -
0:01:00 > 0:01:02Donald Trump - is not taking part?
0:01:02 > 0:01:04The government wants to make it easier for people
0:01:04 > 0:01:05to change their gender.
0:01:05 > 0:01:11But could any change to the law be detrimental to the feminist cause?
0:01:11 > 0:01:13And the Royal Mail released a stamp to mark our accession
0:01:13 > 0:01:16to the EU in 1973.
0:01:16 > 0:01:25So why aren't they producing one to mark Brexit?
0:01:25 > 0:01:30All that in the next hour, and with us for the whole
0:01:30 > 0:01:32of the programme today is that darling of daytime TV,
0:01:32 > 0:01:34Richard Madeley.
0:01:34 > 0:01:39I've thought that was me!It is you!
0:01:39 > 0:01:41First today - inflation has risen again.
0:01:41 > 0:01:43The headline Consumer Prices Index stood at 3.1% in November -
0:01:43 > 0:01:46that's well ahead of wages which grew at just 2.2%.
0:01:46 > 0:01:48It means that the governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney,
0:01:48 > 0:01:51must write to the Chancellor to explain why inflation is running
0:01:51 > 0:01:54so far ahead of the 2% target the government has set.
0:01:54 > 0:02:01Let's talk to our economics editor, Kamal Ahmed.
0:02:01 > 0:02:07So, a pre-Christmas crunch for consumers, with inflation at 3.1%,
0:02:07 > 0:02:11have it peaked there?Well, that is the big question. The Bank of
0:02:11 > 0:02:14England certainly believes the present under this autumn would be
0:02:14 > 0:02:17the high point for inflation. The main reason for that is because when
0:02:17 > 0:02:21you have a currency shock which is a lot of the reason for this
0:02:21 > 0:02:24inflation, so obviously, Sterling dropped heavily after the
0:02:24 > 0:02:28referendum, and when you have a currency shock like that, that tends
0:02:28 > 0:02:39to feed through the system relatively
0:02:41 > 0:02:43quickly and then feed out of the system because inflation is a
0:02:43 > 0:02:46comparative number one on the next. Once you are a year on from the
0:02:46 > 0:02:49referendum, it tends to lessen. The Bank of England put a lot of store
0:02:49 > 0:02:52by that. They thought 3.2% would be the peak and then it would fall next
0:02:52 > 0:02:55year. I have brought my sheet of numbers with me. If you look at the
0:02:55 > 0:03:02numbers which affect what people buy, looking at clothing, food, and
0:03:02 > 0:03:09alcohol, the numbers are 4.1% inflation in food, 4.5% inflation in
0:03:09 > 0:03:13alcohol and 3% inflation in clothing.So that is quite painfully
0:03:13 > 0:03:17high.For the things that people buy, and that is not including
0:03:17 > 0:03:24transport, that is up 4.5%. That is few and tickets. The things that
0:03:24 > 0:03:27people buy means 3.1% is not what people are experiencing when they go
0:03:27 > 0:03:33to the shops. So actually, that squeezes very sharp, but the Bank of
0:03:33 > 0:03:37England leaves and most economists believe we are at about the high
0:03:37 > 0:03:41point of it.Does that mean there will be a sharp fall or will we take
0:03:41 > 0:03:48proper bit and then stick around 2.93%?The banks as they have to get
0:03:48 > 0:03:54back to the 2% target over a three-year period. The idea is that
0:03:54 > 0:04:00next year inflation would fall and most are predicting between two and
0:04:00 > 0:04:032.5%. Now, because of the sterling shock feeding through, there does
0:04:03 > 0:04:07seem to be a lot of evidence that that will happen. We must not forget
0:04:07 > 0:04:12that things happen which are not forecast. Several example, the
0:04:12 > 0:04:15closure of the big oil pipeline in Scotland has meant there is some
0:04:15 > 0:04:21upward pressure on the oil price. The oil prices going up anyway. It
0:04:21 > 0:04:25could go up faster. People are using more fuel because it is very cold
0:04:25 > 0:04:29and that means inflation is affected. Inflation is difficult to
0:04:29 > 0:04:33forecast because things happen and that can produce inflation
0:04:33 > 0:04:36pressures.Mark Carney had to write to the Chancellor to explain why
0:04:36 > 0:04:42there has been this rapid rise in inflation and you wonder, fine, he
0:04:42 > 0:04:46writes a letter, but apart from it being a bureaucratic procedure, what
0:04:46 > 0:04:52does it actually do?We are drowning in protocols. I know we will come
0:04:52 > 0:04:56onto Brexit but that is a classic example currently. Can I ask about
0:04:56 > 0:05:01the numbers, if what we are experiencing is 4.5%, what is
0:05:01 > 0:05:07dragging it down to 3.1%?Did the currency. It is called washing out
0:05:07 > 0:05:10of the system. Input prices that producers are seeing in terms of
0:05:10 > 0:05:15what they are buying from abroad, because the reason inflation comes
0:05:15 > 0:05:19because they Sterling change, because it is more expensive to buy
0:05:19 > 0:05:24from abroad. That figure is starting to fall off because the sterling
0:05:24 > 0:05:27effect is washing three. That is tapering in its effects. But other
0:05:27 > 0:05:31things like the oil price are starting to push inflation in the
0:05:31 > 0:05:36other direction. Also what is called the push through. So for a while
0:05:36 > 0:05:40retailers soak up the input price inflation they are suffering because
0:05:40 > 0:05:43they are buying food from abroad, but after a bit it starts to be
0:05:43 > 0:05:48pushed through to the consumer and that is what is happening now. That
0:05:48 > 0:05:51bubble has moved from the retailers, the cost of importing food has been
0:05:51 > 0:05:56pushed onto the consumer, so they are starting to experience that
0:05:56 > 0:06:01through bubble.What about the action that can be taken by the Bank
0:06:01 > 0:06:08of England? Does he have suggestions how to bring it down?So they have
0:06:08 > 0:06:14raised interest rates slightly or doubled them from not .2% -- 0.25%
0:06:14 > 0:06:19to not .5%. Raising interest rates tends to take money out of the
0:06:19 > 0:06:23system. They have done that and also they take predictions on things like
0:06:23 > 0:06:27the sterling effect, on things like commodity prices, but of course,
0:06:27 > 0:06:32when you have quite strong global growth as you do, that has
0:06:32 > 0:06:37inflationary effects. It tends to push up inflation. So it is a
0:06:37 > 0:06:42delicate balancing act. We will not see the letter until next year. By
0:06:42 > 0:06:46then, we will have other inflation figures in December, which could be
0:06:46 > 0:06:52a little lower. The letter writing, as you said which is quite a
0:06:52 > 0:06:55bureaucratic protocol, we will not see what the letter looks like until
0:06:55 > 0:06:59next February.You're too young to remember the inflation we had in the
0:06:59 > 0:07:0570s. It would make this conversation laughable.But we have had such low
0:07:05 > 0:07:09inflation for so long and that is the difficulty, particularly before.
0:07:09 > 0:07:11Thank you.
0:07:11 > 0:07:15So, it looks like the EU will sign off on moving on to phase two
0:07:15 > 0:07:17of Brexit talks when Theresa May meets her fellow EU leaders
0:07:17 > 0:07:19at the end of the week.
0:07:19 > 0:07:21But could there be trouble for the Prime Minister
0:07:21 > 0:07:22back here in Westminster?
0:07:22 > 0:07:25Some of her own MPs are insisting on a "meaningful vote" at the end
0:07:25 > 0:07:28of the Brexit negotiations - and they want that promise written
0:07:28 > 0:07:30into the EU Withdrawal Bill that's currently going through parliament.
0:07:30 > 0:07:32The Prime Minister faced MPs in the Commons yesterday
0:07:32 > 0:07:39as she briefed them on the deal she did last week in Brussels.
0:07:39 > 0:07:45The progress so far has required give and take for the UK and the EU,
0:07:45 > 0:07:49to move forward together, and that is what we have done. Of course,
0:07:49 > 0:08:00nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
0:08:01 > 0:08:06But, there is, I believe, a new sense of optimism in the talks. And
0:08:06 > 0:08:12I fully hope... And I fully hope and expect that we will confirm the
0:08:12 > 0:08:16arrangements that I have said that today in the European Council led to
0:08:16 > 0:08:22this week.18 months on from the referendum result, the Prime
0:08:22 > 0:08:27Minister scrapes through phase one of the negotiations. Scrapes through
0:08:27 > 0:08:33after a team months. Two month later than planned, with many of the key
0:08:33 > 0:08:41aspects of phase one still not clear. This weekend Cabinet members
0:08:41 > 0:08:46have managed to contradict each other. Indeed, some have managed to
0:08:46 > 0:08:53go even further and contradict themselves.Would she confirmed that
0:08:53 > 0:08:57nothing is agreed and 11 thing is agreed is a well-known phrase
0:08:57 > 0:09:01meaning details can be revisited once you have sorted out what the
0:09:01 > 0:09:04ultimate test the nation is, but it doesn't mean that you're going to
0:09:04 > 0:09:08tear everything up and start all over again, while EU citizens are
0:09:08 > 0:09:15paying money and regulatory convergence, if something goes wrong
0:09:15 > 0:09:19in future?Last week we had the human dating scene of the Prime
0:09:19 > 0:09:24Minister being forced out of the original deal by the DUP, rushing
0:09:24 > 0:09:29back to London, the government had to rewrite the agreement so as to
0:09:29 > 0:09:34reach the DUP's approval. We really have to wonder, who is running the
0:09:34 > 0:09:41UK? Is it Arlene Foster or the right honourable member for Maidenhead?
0:09:41 > 0:09:44The Prime Minister said there had been given take in the negotiations
0:09:44 > 0:09:48and she is absolutely right. We are giving the EU tens of billions of
0:09:48 > 0:09:53pounds and they are taking them. As the Prime Minister has said, that
0:09:53 > 0:09:57the money will not be paid unless there is a final agreement, by
0:09:57 > 0:10:01definition, that must mean that we are not legally obliged to make
0:10:01 > 0:10:05these payments, otherwise that would not be available to us. Can the
0:10:05 > 0:10:07Prime Minister explain why she is paying tens of billions of pounds
0:10:07 > 0:10:11which are not legally due to the European Union, when she is
0:10:11 > 0:10:19continuing with a policy of austerity at home that many of my
0:10:19 > 0:10:21constituents simply do not understand where all this extra
0:10:21 > 0:10:24money seems to come from.
0:10:24 > 0:10:26And I'm joined now by Oliver Letwin, who worked at the heart
0:10:26 > 0:10:28of both the coalition and David Cameron's short-lived
0:10:28 > 0:10:32Conservative government as a policy minister and party strategist.
0:10:32 > 0:10:36Welcome to the programme. That step up on Philip Davis there, the
0:10:36 > 0:10:41Conservative MP at the end of the film. He is disgruntled about the
0:10:41 > 0:10:45money, up to £39 billion. We have agreed to pay the EU. He is not the
0:10:45 > 0:10:48only Conservative backbencher who has raised these concerns, saying
0:10:48 > 0:10:52they need help selling this steel to their constituents. How does the
0:10:52 > 0:10:55government explain to the voting public that we have agreed to make
0:10:55 > 0:11:00these payments over the coming decades, without so far anything to
0:11:00 > 0:11:10show for it?I don't think that is very difficult. In the first place,
0:11:10 > 0:11:12this money is money we are paying for the first and large instalments
0:11:12 > 0:11:16of it and then we go on paying it for a couple of years and then we
0:11:16 > 0:11:18stopped that, which is good news. The rest of the money we pay over
0:11:18 > 0:11:2120, 30, 40 years as pensions crystallise and so on, and so the
0:11:21 > 0:11:24net effect is after a couple of years our contribution is hugely
0:11:24 > 0:11:29reduced which is good news.But Theresa May said yesterday the offer
0:11:29 > 0:11:35is on the table in the context of us agreeing the next stage and the
0:11:35 > 0:11:38partnership for the future. So let's be absolutely clear, the UK could
0:11:38 > 0:11:41walk away without paying a penny if the EU does not offer us the
0:11:41 > 0:11:46prospect of the trade deal in phase two?There has been quite a lot of
0:11:46 > 0:11:50confusion about this. As far as I can make out, the position is there
0:11:50 > 0:11:53is some unknown quantity that if one went to court about it, would turn
0:11:53 > 0:11:59out to be a legal obligation and that the UK would always pay. I
0:11:59 > 0:12:02don't know and that hasn't been a legal case to decide, but the next
0:12:02 > 0:12:06question is, that part of it, whatever it is, that we are not
0:12:06 > 0:12:10legally obliged to pay, and which is part of this agreement, and that is
0:12:10 > 0:12:15clearly contingent on getting the deal. How those would sort
0:12:15 > 0:12:18themselves out, you would only know later.See you would agree with
0:12:18 > 0:12:21Philip Hammond the Chancellor, that we would still need on our
0:12:21 > 0:12:25obligations, even if we could not agree on a trade deal?Does not
0:12:25 > 0:12:30whether I agree, the fact is that the UK always honours its
0:12:30 > 0:12:34international law obligations. The government is clear about that. That
0:12:34 > 0:12:38is not a controversial point in our country.But when you listen to some
0:12:38 > 0:12:41of the Conservative backbenchers, they seem to be implying we would
0:12:41 > 0:12:46not pay any of the amount...No, I did not hear the same as you. I
0:12:46 > 0:12:50think the listeners would have heard Philip Davies saying clearer later
0:12:50 > 0:12:55this money we were not legally obliged to pay. -- he said clearly
0:12:55 > 0:12:59that legally we were not obliged to pay. I think anything we are legally
0:12:59 > 0:13:03obliged to pay we would pay anyway, but we would only pay above what we
0:13:03 > 0:13:08are legally obliged to pay if we get the deal.We may need to see that
0:13:08 > 0:13:11documentation because people keep calling for some sort of sheet.I
0:13:11 > 0:13:15don't think you will ever see that unless it was contested in court. I
0:13:15 > 0:13:20suspect it is a very come to question legally speaking, what we
0:13:20 > 0:13:25obliged to pay?What is the EU went to make an offer on the money that
0:13:25 > 0:13:30we have put down, legally binding before we leave in March 2019?I
0:13:30 > 0:13:33think the Prime Minister is completely clear. She is not going
0:13:33 > 0:13:37to agree to any amount beyond our legal obligations, including the
0:13:37 > 0:13:42amount she has agreed here, and finally we get a final deal that is
0:13:42 > 0:13:48accepted by Parliament and that becomes the basis of our future will
0:13:48 > 0:13:52relationship. That is clear.There is a feeling in some inner party
0:13:52 > 0:13:56that the Prime Minister has capitulated with this deal? The
0:13:56 > 0:13:59former Chancellor Lord Lawson, and we know his views generally when it
0:13:59 > 0:14:03comes to Brexit, he thinks the Prime Minister has lost her nerve and it
0:14:03 > 0:14:07is time to get up off our knees. There may be many voters who agree
0:14:07 > 0:14:11with him. What would you say to others who espouse that sentiment?I
0:14:11 > 0:14:15don't agree with that. I think if you're going to have a negotiation
0:14:15 > 0:14:25like
0:14:28 > 0:14:30this, the idea of agreeing something and making it contingent on a final
0:14:30 > 0:14:33agreement is a perfectly proper and will weigh to negotiate. Clearly, we
0:14:33 > 0:14:36have a tough negotiation on the free trade deal ahead of us. I think we
0:14:36 > 0:14:38need to make it perfectly clear that we are prepared to leave without one
0:14:38 > 0:14:41if one is offered to us which is not acceptable, I think that means all
0:14:41 > 0:14:43the preparations the government is making that Philip Hammond provided
0:14:43 > 0:14:46money to make in his budget, for leaving without an agreement if we
0:14:46 > 0:14:49cannot get an acceptable one. Therefore, I think we have a
0:14:49 > 0:14:54sensible negotiation ahead of us. Was it wise for David Davis to talk
0:14:54 > 0:15:03about the deal and statement of intent only, which seems to have
0:15:03 > 0:15:06upset some in Brussels and in Ireland, because the invitation
0:15:06 > 0:15:08there is that phase two could un-pick everything that has been
0:15:08 > 0:15:11agreed in phase one?I think you have two propositions. The
0:15:11 > 0:15:14government has clearly reached an agreement about how it would proceed
0:15:14 > 0:15:19in relation to withdraw, if it gets a trade deal that is acceptable. It
0:15:19 > 0:15:22is contingent on that but it does not mean the government will go back
0:15:22 > 0:15:26and renegotiate or the terms of this text as part of getting a free trade
0:15:26 > 0:15:29deal. We get a free trade deal and will it buy this text, or we don't
0:15:29 > 0:15:37and the text is off the table. That seems to me perfectly clear a
0:15:37 > 0:15:40sensible answer session. You can never have a perfect position in
0:15:40 > 0:15:45negotiating as I often found in the collision! But I think you can get a
0:15:45 > 0:15:50decent one.
0:15:50 > 0:15:55Many felt she wouldn't even make it to this point as Prime Minister and
0:15:55 > 0:16:03trying to bring round the DUP and do you see that as an achievement?
0:16:03 > 0:16:06A small one, these are relative things.
0:16:06 > 0:16:13She has had a horrible few months. Yesterday she introduced a note of
0:16:13 > 0:16:16triumphalism which is understandable but amateur.
0:16:16 > 0:16:22There is so much more to go. It was over the top yesterday.
0:16:22 > 0:16:26Michael Deacon in the Telegraph newspaper bikers had to a 400 metres
0:16:26 > 0:16:30hurdler who jumps over the first at last and then stops to make a
0:16:30 > 0:16:42speech. There is so much language around this debate. Thank you for
0:16:42 > 0:16:47talking in plain English. David Davis had to issue a clarification
0:16:47 > 0:16:52yesterday. I needed clarification of the whole interview, I have never
0:16:52 > 0:16:55heard such jargon. The whole debate, God knows how you
0:16:55 > 0:17:02kept your sanity... I am not sure I have.
0:17:02 > 0:17:07The entire debate is strangled by semantics.
0:17:07 > 0:17:10What did McDonnell say yesterday, it was ridiculous, Labour doesn't want
0:17:10 > 0:17:17to be in the single market or the customs union, but a single market.
0:17:17 > 0:17:24It is Monty Python. Explaining this to the voters who have tried to talk
0:17:24 > 0:17:30about how they will respond, you can understand why it said the public
0:17:30 > 0:17:35will go bananas because they haven't been prepared for this.
0:17:35 > 0:17:41Let us talk about transition, the next part of the negotiation. The
0:17:41 > 0:17:45promised has implied she wants the UK to remain in the single market
0:17:45 > 0:17:50and Customs union during that period, is that what you understand?
0:17:50 > 0:17:56Yes. Will that be the status quo in terms of still taking laws and rules
0:17:56 > 0:18:01from the European Court of Justice? It is clear from what she said
0:18:01 > 0:18:04yesterday that one of the things which will happen in the next phase,
0:18:04 > 0:18:12I agree, it is early days, is that the terms of that transitional
0:18:12 > 0:18:15period will be settled. Questions like the ones you are all skiing
0:18:15 > 0:18:21will be answered in that period -- you are asking.
0:18:21 > 0:18:25If there is new legislation in the midst of that period, does not apply
0:18:25 > 0:18:30to us? There are tricky issues. The basic
0:18:30 > 0:18:37proposition as understand it, is that for another two years we'd be
0:18:37 > 0:18:41governed broadly by the same set of rules as at the moment. During that
0:18:41 > 0:18:46period, we would implement all the changes agreed and whatever deal
0:18:46 > 0:18:52there is and the new deal would... I will come onto what would be
0:18:52 > 0:18:55implemented. There has been confusion around this transition
0:18:55 > 0:19:04period. Will your party sign up to her vision and your vision of
0:19:04 > 0:19:07another two years of EU membership in all but name.
0:19:07 > 0:19:11People will be very happy if they knew there was a free trade deal on
0:19:11 > 0:19:16the table that was acceptable, which there is at the moment, and we'd
0:19:16 > 0:19:21only have this transition with a free trade deal, and if they knew it
0:19:21 > 0:19:26would take two years to fill in the details, then we would be happy to
0:19:26 > 0:19:34see current situation maintain. So the payments continue, freedom of
0:19:34 > 0:19:38movement, the ECJ continues. In order to get to a point where the
0:19:38 > 0:19:43free trade deal clocks in and our businesses have only one change.
0:19:43 > 0:19:49You don't have a double cliff edge. Come the 29th of March 2019, the day
0:19:49 > 0:19:55of our departure, we won't have signed a trade deal by then?
0:19:55 > 0:19:59You say that, that is not the intention. It is important not to
0:19:59 > 0:20:03add confusion. I am looking at what is put on the
0:20:03 > 0:20:06table. Her intention is between the first
0:20:06 > 0:20:14step which this is, and the next step, she will try to negotiate two
0:20:14 > 0:20:19sets of things, the finalisation of this deal, including the
0:20:19 > 0:20:23finalisation of the transitional period, and a free trade deal.
0:20:23 > 0:20:32I want to read paragraph six. These are the guidelines for the second
0:20:32 > 0:20:37phase, an agreement on a future mission ship can only be considered
0:20:37 > 0:20:42once the UK has become a third country, the union will engage in
0:20:42 > 0:20:49preliminary and preparatory discussions to... In other words,
0:20:49 > 0:20:53they will only look at the very start of this trade Ott those are
0:20:53 > 0:20:59the guidelines. That is not what they mean, it means
0:20:59 > 0:21:05in international law, you cannot sign a free trade deal between UK
0:21:05 > 0:21:11and EU until the UK has left the EU because the UK is not a separate
0:21:11 > 0:21:18country but of the EU. These words, preliminary, apply.
0:21:18 > 0:21:24We won't be implementing... If we get to an agreement before 2019
0:21:24 > 0:21:35March 29, then we leave at 11pm UK time on March 29, on the 30th, the
0:21:35 > 0:21:43UK is an independent country, even if governed by the transnational
0:21:43 > 0:21:50period -- Transitional. So you can sign an agreement. Once it is
0:21:50 > 0:21:57approved by Parliament and the EU, then it is signed. The second we
0:21:57 > 0:22:04leave, then it is implemented in the next two years. Whether that can be
0:22:04 > 0:22:08achieved is another question. It is a sensible process. Except
0:22:08 > 0:22:13what looks likely to happen if you take everything in the round is
0:22:13 > 0:22:18there won't be a Brexit dividend which has been promised, money
0:22:18 > 0:22:23coming back or the ability to sign free trade deals with other
0:22:23 > 0:22:28countries outside the EU, until past 2021.
0:22:28 > 0:22:35The dividend is on hold. My question, as an expense to the Jo
0:22:35 > 0:22:39Shuter that you are, we talk about this first hurdle, do you said
0:22:39 > 0:22:45Brussels did link? I don't think it is a question of
0:22:45 > 0:22:50Bling King. I think there was uncompromising language from
0:22:50 > 0:22:53Brussels which looks like it gave way to a sensible negotiating
0:22:53 > 0:23:03position. In the negotiations, you are dealing inside the room with a
0:23:03 > 0:23:07sensible set of propositions, then you have an audience out there you
0:23:07 > 0:23:12have two shown you are being strong too. These overblown statements you
0:23:12 > 0:23:19refer to, they get made, we shouldn't pay too much attention.
0:23:19 > 0:23:24The question is, at the end, do you get a sensible agreement.
0:23:24 > 0:23:28Dominic grieve said so far that it has been intransigent and he is
0:23:28 > 0:23:32planning to put his amendment on the final deal tomorrow which could mean
0:23:32 > 0:23:36a defeat for the Government, should the Government compromise?
0:23:36 > 0:23:42You should distinguish between proposition one, MPs should have a
0:23:42 > 0:23:45vote on whether the final deal put before Parliament is acceptable to
0:23:45 > 0:23:51Parliament? Should there be time to send it back
0:23:51 > 0:23:54to Theresa May? Should we have the vote on whether
0:23:54 > 0:24:00it is acceptable? Yes. That is why the Government will make that deal
0:24:00 > 0:24:06be something that is brought in, in a separate act. The next question,
0:24:06 > 0:24:11should we have the capacity in Parliament to thwart the will of the
0:24:11 > 0:24:16British people by rejecting not only the deal but the whole process of
0:24:16 > 0:24:22Brexit. My answer is definitely not. We must leave, so do we leave with a
0:24:22 > 0:24:26deal or not. Is that what Dominic Grieve is
0:24:26 > 0:24:30trying to do, thwart the will of the British people?
0:24:30 > 0:24:32His amendment provides for us to vote on whether the deal is
0:24:32 > 0:24:37acceptable and if it is all it does then the Government will bring
0:24:37 > 0:24:46forward registration. I have worked with Dominic, I don't
0:24:46 > 0:24:49read that in that way. Why is it necessary for the dates of
0:24:49 > 0:24:53our departure to be written into that bill?
0:24:53 > 0:24:57I don't think it is necessary but it is not a problem. If you write in a
0:24:57 > 0:25:04date and it turns out it is useful to have another 48 hours or
0:25:04 > 0:25:10whatever, you can have emergency legislation passed to change it.
0:25:10 > 0:25:15The advantage of having the date on the face of it is to allay any
0:25:15 > 0:25:19suspicion that Parliament is intent on doing anything other than leaving
0:25:19 > 0:25:24on the 29th of March at 11pm, that is important for the British people
0:25:24 > 0:25:35because they voted for that. I know this is a question where it is
0:25:35 > 0:25:38important but secondary to other things. Secondary to whether we
0:25:38 > 0:25:49maintain a democracy in this country.
0:25:54 > 0:25:56In December 2015, 196 countries reached a consensus known
0:25:56 > 0:25:59as the Paris Climate Agreement - the deal unites all the world's
0:25:59 > 0:26:01nations in a single agreement on tackling climate change.
0:26:01 > 0:26:02This
0:26:02 > 0:26:04That ministers from 196 countries reached a consensus on a set
0:26:04 > 0:26:06of targets was hailed as "historic" in itself.
0:26:06 > 0:26:09The key elements of the agreement are: To keep global temperatures
0:26:09 > 0:26:11"well below" 2.0 Celsius, above pre-industrial times
0:26:11 > 0:26:13and "endeavour to limit" them even more, to 1.5 Celsius.
0:26:13 > 0:26:16To limit the amount of greenhouse gases emitted by human activity
0:26:16 > 0:26:18to the same levels that trees, soil and oceans can absorb
0:26:18 > 0:26:20naturally, beginning at some point between 2050 and 2100.
0:26:20 > 0:26:22To review each country's contribution to cutting emissions
0:26:22 > 0:26:25every five years so they scale up to the challenge.
0:26:25 > 0:26:27For rich countries to help poorer nations by providing "climate
0:26:27 > 0:26:30finance" to adapt to climate change and switch to renewable energy.
0:26:30 > 0:26:32But during the 2016 United States Presidential campaign,
0:26:32 > 0:26:34then-candidate Donald Trump promised to withdraw the US -
0:26:34 > 0:26:37which contributes about 15% of the global emissions of carbon -
0:26:37 > 0:26:39from the agreement, saying the move would help the country's
0:26:39 > 0:26:48oil and coal industries.
0:26:48 > 0:26:51In June, President Trump confirmed that the US would withdraw
0:26:51 > 0:26:54from the Paris climate accord during a speech in the Rose Garden
0:26:54 > 0:26:56at the White House.
0:26:56 > 0:26:59He said that he was doing so to protect American jobs
0:26:59 > 0:27:09and the economy in the US.
0:27:11 > 0:27:14Today, French President, Emmanuel Macron, hosts a meeting
0:27:14 > 0:27:18in Paris of around 50 world leaders from Mexican President
0:27:18 > 0:27:20Enrique Pena Nieto to Prime Minister Theresa May
0:27:20 > 0:27:22for the One Planet Summit.
0:27:22 > 0:27:24President Trump was reportedly not invited.
0:27:24 > 0:27:26Actor and former Governor of California Arnold Schwarzenegger
0:27:26 > 0:27:28downplayed the US withdrawal from the climate accord yesterday,
0:27:28 > 0:27:35saying the rest of the America would "pick up the slack".
0:27:35 > 0:27:40It doesn't matter that Donald Trump backed out of the Paris agreement
0:27:40 > 0:27:46because the private sector didn't drop out, the public sector didn't
0:27:46 > 0:27:48sector didn't drop out, the universities,
0:27:48 > 0:27:49scientists, the engineers,
0:27:49 > 0:27:50no one dropped out.
0:27:50 > 0:27:52Donald Trump pulled Donald Trump out of the Paris Agreement,
0:27:52 > 0:27:55so don't worry about that.
0:27:55 > 0:28:02We at a subnational level will pick up the slack and continue on.
0:28:02 > 0:28:04We're joined now from the Paris climate change talks
0:28:04 > 0:28:08by the Climate Change Minister, Claire Perry.
0:28:08 > 0:28:14thank you for joining us from Paris. Arnold Schwarzenegger saying it does
0:28:14 > 0:28:20not matter that Donald Trump is not there. Is his absence overshadowing
0:28:20 > 0:28:24the conference bearing in mind he is the world Blixt second most
0:28:24 > 0:28:37polluting country? The answer is not at all. What has
0:28:37 > 0:28:41happened is the trump headline withdrawal has reinvigorated other
0:28:41 > 0:28:47countries and big businesses and the big NGOs to say, we get that, we
0:28:47 > 0:28:51think it is very disappointing but it means we will go faster and do
0:28:51 > 0:28:56more. The promised is coming here today to make an announcement about
0:28:56 > 0:29:04the Cole Alliance, we hoped to get 50 members by next year, we are over
0:29:04 > 0:29:0950 already. She will focus on the first global electric vehicle
0:29:09 > 0:29:15summits in the UK. It is a shame but Arnie is right, the people creating
0:29:15 > 0:29:19the emissions are getting on with the job of cutting them because
0:29:19 > 0:29:24everyone sees it is good business for the planet as well, and good for
0:29:24 > 0:29:29the economy. We have half a million people in Britain working in this
0:29:29 > 0:29:34low carbon sector. It is about jobs and growth, something the US
0:29:34 > 0:29:37president cares about. I hope he can come back to the party.
0:29:37 > 0:29:44But we will get on.If it's all about the money? If it is about
0:29:44 > 0:29:48richer countries helping poorer polluting countries to adjust their
0:29:48 > 0:29:54economies to move to renewables, the World Bank said it will take $3
0:29:54 > 0:29:57trillion a year for 30 years to contain the rising global
0:29:57 > 0:30:02temperatures. Should Britain commit more funds?We
0:30:02 > 0:30:07are one of the largest donors of climate and that -- Finance. If you
0:30:07 > 0:30:11look at the cost of renewable technology it is being delivered
0:30:11 > 0:30:15subsidy free. I opened the first subsidy freak solar farm if you
0:30:15 > 0:30:26weeks ago. So the world is moving very rapidly to a place where
0:30:26 > 0:30:35renewables are not a cost trade. We have got to work together. As we
0:30:35 > 0:30:42have been saying is we cannot solve this problem alone, there are huge
0:30:42 > 0:30:46benefits in collaborating and we need to make sure that is
0:30:46 > 0:30:50accelerated. President Macron had a dinner last night where he made the
0:30:50 > 0:30:55point, I don't want to say to my children in 50 years when we have
0:30:55 > 0:31:01lost 3G and the Marshall Islands, we knew it would happen and we didn't
0:31:01 > 0:31:08act. There is a sense of commitment and optimism and hard work to do.
0:31:08 > 0:31:11Britain is leading the pack. We have cut our emissions more and growing
0:31:11 > 0:31:16our economy any -- so we know how to do it.
0:31:22 > 0:31:26But how committed is the British government, because the commitment
0:31:26 > 0:31:30to climate change was questioned when Theresa May abolished the
0:31:30 > 0:31:33Department for Energy and Climate Change shortly after taking office
0:31:33 > 0:31:39last year, so it has sort of been demoted.Not at all. I have to
0:31:39 > 0:31:43disagree. We are one of the first countries in the world which has a
0:31:43 > 0:31:47binding Climate Change Act. Next day is the tenth anniversary. If you
0:31:47 > 0:31:51want politicians to do the right thing over a period of time, having
0:31:51 > 0:31:59that legislation is a good idea. And by putting the Department for Energy
0:31:59 > 0:32:02and Climate Change into the business department, we have done something
0:32:02 > 0:32:04which is incredibly important which is to say, as we want our economy to
0:32:04 > 0:32:08grow and prosper, we know this clean grey thing has to be at the heart of
0:32:08 > 0:32:13it. We working far more closely with British businesses and the financial
0:32:13 > 0:32:17sector to say, how are we making this change happen? I don't think it
0:32:17 > 0:32:21is a demotion, I think it is a promotion. People are coming up to
0:32:21 > 0:32:33saying Britain has led the world, you have cut your emissions fast,
0:32:33 > 0:32:35you are employing hundreds of thousands of people, let's do it
0:32:35 > 0:32:38together. We should be proud of what we have done.Let's have a look at
0:32:38 > 0:32:41some of the domestic policies. The Chancellor has said field duty will
0:32:41 > 0:32:46be frozen again, why will the planned rise be scrapped? Doesn't
0:32:46 > 0:32:54that undermine Philip Hammond's view on clean air commitments?It is not
0:32:54 > 0:32:58just bad air, it is about the quality and water quality. What he
0:32:58 > 0:33:02also did was put in a new tax level for the most polluting vehicles,
0:33:02 > 0:33:09diesel engines, which people were encouraged to buy under previous
0:33:09 > 0:33:13governments, and he also rolled up plans for a electric vehicle
0:33:13 > 0:33:18charging networks. You have to do it in a structured way. You have to
0:33:18 > 0:33:21invest in technologies that cut emissions, you have to make sure
0:33:21 > 0:33:25you're not putting costs up and you have to create technology. It was a
0:33:25 > 0:33:29very measured budget and Britain now is making one in five of the
0:33:29 > 0:33:32electric vehicles which are being sold in Europe. We have a really
0:33:32 > 0:33:45fast take-up of electric vehicles and the PM
0:33:49 > 0:33:52will be announcing this global summit because we want to be both
0:33:52 > 0:33:55driving them and making them in the UK.But it is not just about the
0:33:55 > 0:33:57rhetoric. The High Court has found the government's previous attempts
0:33:57 > 0:34:00to cut air pollution were so poor as to be illegal. The government has
0:34:00 > 0:34:02said it will not introduce more clean air zones for charging
0:34:02 > 0:34:05electric vehicles, why not?I think if you read what the budget said, it
0:34:05 > 0:34:10said this new diesel levy will go directly into clean air funding. It
0:34:10 > 0:34:15is about action. We will not be burning any coal to produce power by
0:34:15 > 0:34:202025. The proportion of energy coming from renewables is about 25%.
0:34:20 > 0:34:24We are actually delivering on our promises and we have lots more to
0:34:24 > 0:34:30do. It has to be done in a way which does not put up costs. The new
0:34:30 > 0:34:33technology we are bringing on is the same cost as some of the fossil fuel
0:34:33 > 0:34:37technologies. There is always more to do. It is great you are covering
0:34:37 > 0:34:42this. I think this is one of the first live broadcast done from a
0:34:42 > 0:34:51climate change Summit!Hurray! Hull this is not a win lose trade-off, we
0:34:51 > 0:34:55can save the planet and we can boost British businesses at the same time.
0:34:55 > 0:35:00And work with hundreds of other countries who are here, many of them
0:35:00 > 0:35:04are represented by heads of state today who want to work collectively.
0:35:04 > 0:35:08It is a big challenge. It will not be easy but it is great to see
0:35:08 > 0:35:14Britain's leadership here. Enjoy the summit. Richard Madeley,
0:35:14 > 0:35:18do you feel there is enough ongoing commitment by this government to
0:35:18 > 0:35:21actually meet some of the challenges? Despite what Claire
0:35:21 > 0:35:28Perry says about meeting some of the targets, and future targets do not
0:35:28 > 0:35:34look to be online.This is not my specialist subject but the pressure
0:35:34 > 0:35:37I have is quite positive. I thought Claire gave a good performance
0:35:37 > 0:35:41there. I think she explained quite genuinely the commitment which is
0:35:41 > 0:35:47coming from the government.Despite the fact they don't have a cabinet
0:35:47 > 0:35:51minister any more?Absolutely, but she dealt with that well. I am
0:35:51 > 0:35:55comfortable with Britain's stance on global warming. I think we are ahead
0:35:55 > 0:36:01of the pack in many ways. I think countries look up to us. We are
0:36:01 > 0:36:05ahead of America which are not a bad place to be after what Trump said. I
0:36:05 > 0:36:10am not pessimistic. It is patchy, obviously, but our hearts are in the
0:36:10 > 0:36:16right place and our intentions are good.Let's leave it there.
0:36:16 > 0:36:18The UK-wide 2004 Gender Recognition Act was originally
0:36:18 > 0:36:19seen as ground-breaking.
0:36:19 > 0:36:21It allowed transgender people to apply for legal recognition
0:36:21 > 0:36:24of the gender in which they lived without undergoing either
0:36:24 > 0:36:25gender reassignment surgery or other medical treatment.
0:36:25 > 0:36:27But those who've gone through the process have argued
0:36:27 > 0:36:30that the requirements placed on applicants are still intrusive
0:36:30 > 0:36:32and distressing, because it requires a diagnosis of gender dysphoria,
0:36:32 > 0:36:34a condition where a person's biological sex and identity
0:36:34 > 0:36:36does not match.
0:36:36 > 0:36:39Now, the Government is considering making that process easier,
0:36:39 > 0:36:45as Ellie explains.
0:36:45 > 0:36:50That is all we have got time for this week. Make sure you tune in
0:36:50 > 0:36:55again next week. Follow me on social media. All the rest of it. Two
0:36:55 > 0:37:01players out this week, we have the wonderful Love.Sophie Cook began
0:37:01 > 0:37:07transitioning decades ago, but she only stopped being Steve in 2015.
0:37:07 > 0:37:12She now hosts a radio show in Brighton, a few miles down the road
0:37:12 > 0:37:15from Shoreham where she stood as a Labour candidate in the general
0:37:15 > 0:37:19election.At the point where I transitioned, I had a point where I
0:37:19 > 0:37:24either ended my life or changed it. I had struggled with this pain since
0:37:24 > 0:37:30I was seven years old, feeling emotionally detached from who I was
0:37:30 > 0:37:33and not feeling like I was the person I was meant to be. One of the
0:37:33 > 0:37:38problems is, in the past it has been left down to doctors and judges to
0:37:38 > 0:37:45rule on people's identity. No one can actually presume to know more
0:37:45 > 0:37:52about from an's identity than they do themselves.The glitzy Pink
0:37:52 > 0:37:57category News awards in October, where the Al GDT website awarded
0:37:57 > 0:38:02Justine Greening politician of the year, for her plans to reform the
0:38:02 > 0:38:07Gender Recognition Act, something her boss said she was committed to.
0:38:07 > 0:38:12We have set up plans to reform the Gender Recognition Act, streamlining
0:38:12 > 0:38:18and the medical lives in the process for changing gender. The entrance is
0:38:18 > 0:38:31not an illness and it should not be treated as such. -- being trans is
0:38:31 > 0:38:35not an illness.What people need is a medical diagnosis of gender
0:38:35 > 0:38:38dysphoria and then they need to prove they have been in transitioned
0:38:38 > 0:38:42the two years. When it is launched, the government's consultation will
0:38:42 > 0:38:48look at taking away that need for medical diagnosis, and freed up for
0:38:48 > 0:38:54the individual to self diagnose their gender. For some there are
0:38:54 > 0:38:59practical and philosophical problems for making gender a personal choice.
0:38:59 > 0:39:02Should somebody identified themselves as a woman, they could
0:39:02 > 0:39:06claim the right to be housed in a refuge service with vulnerable women
0:39:06 > 0:39:09who would find it extremely distressing and potentially
0:39:09 > 0:39:13intimidating to be housed with that person. There is also the
0:39:13 > 0:39:20possibility that people will do that specifically to gain access, and I
0:39:20 > 0:39:23don't think anything has been built into the discussions so far that has
0:39:23 > 0:39:27really taken into account the potential for malicious use.Just
0:39:27 > 0:39:31difficult to quantify how many people have or are planning to
0:39:31 > 0:39:36change gender. Around 300 gender recognition certificates are granted
0:39:36 > 0:39:39each year. The government said it would launch its consultation this
0:39:39 > 0:39:43autumn, but it has not yet.
0:39:43 > 0:39:46We're joined now by the feminist author Julie Bindel and Jane Fae
0:39:46 > 0:39:48a campaigner on sexual liberty.
0:39:48 > 0:39:53Why should it be made easier to transition?Because it is a dog's
0:39:53 > 0:39:56breakfast at the moment and it takes us back to where we were 40 years
0:39:56 > 0:40:00ago, because 40 years ago we had a self identification system and these
0:40:00 > 0:40:06guided not moving and there were no problems whatsoever.What concerns
0:40:06 > 0:40:12do you have, Julie?First of all the use of the word gender when we are
0:40:12 > 0:40:16talking about sex. I believe that gender is a social construct. It is
0:40:16 > 0:40:20something which is imposed upon girls at birth. It benefits boys. It
0:40:20 > 0:40:24means we are supposed to behave in particular ways that quite frankly
0:40:24 > 0:40:27disadvantage us as girls and advantage boys. When I was growing
0:40:27 > 0:40:31up I had two brothers and I wanted the freedom that they had earned the
0:40:31 > 0:40:36privilege that they were given because of the sexes and patriarch
0:40:36 > 0:40:42Lee, and quite frankly, had I been taken to a gender reassignment
0:40:42 > 0:40:45clinic back in the 1970s, I would have happily become a boy and there
0:40:45 > 0:40:49was no such thing as dysphoria for me, the dysphoria came not from a
0:40:49 > 0:40:52medical condition which meant I was born in the wrong body, but as a
0:40:52 > 0:40:56girl I saw I had less freedom and less privileges than boys and I was
0:40:56 > 0:41:02treated very unfairly by the outside world.Taking those points, what do
0:41:02 > 0:41:06you say? Bag I'm confused. First and foremost you are suggesting that you
0:41:06 > 0:41:17know what would have happened.I had a friend he was very definitely
0:41:17 > 0:41:20lesbian who went to a gender specialist and the gender specialist
0:41:20 > 0:41:22sent them away. Secondly, what we are talking about today is the
0:41:22 > 0:41:25Gender Recognition Act and that has nothing to do with what might have
0:41:25 > 0:41:28happened to you back then.With all due respect I have interviewed
0:41:28 > 0:41:32several people who have been through medical transition, social
0:41:32 > 0:41:37transition who deeply regret it, who were diagnosed in 20 minutes by a
0:41:37 > 0:41:40psychiatrist who has been struck off, because of several people who
0:41:40 > 0:41:43went through the surgery and hormones, and said if they had been
0:41:43 > 0:41:47allowed to live in their own skin without being bullied for being a
0:41:47 > 0:41:52real boy, they would be happy. Why are we medicalising what is clearly
0:41:52 > 0:42:00a problem which is imposed by the patriarch E.Let's talk about
0:42:00 > 0:42:05medicalisation. Is that an issue for you? Is there a danger in people
0:42:05 > 0:42:10thinking when they are young that they are in the wrong body and
0:42:10 > 0:42:14undertaking something which is difficult to reverse?There are many
0:42:14 > 0:42:19things in life that are difficult to reverse and there are many things
0:42:19 > 0:42:26with a far higher prevalence. There is medicalisation, if you are aware
0:42:26 > 0:42:34of transgender history, you will be aware of attempts in the past two
0:42:34 > 0:42:38oppose transition. The transgender community does not want to recruit.
0:42:38 > 0:42:43Many people with an ideology in this are people like Julie. We need a
0:42:43 > 0:42:50service which says if you're a lesbian, your listing, if you're
0:42:50 > 0:42:53trans, you are trans.This is nothing to do with sexual identity.
0:42:53 > 0:42:58It is to do with the issue we have been asked to speak about, the
0:42:58 > 0:43:01Gender Recognition Act which has been the cheapest and easiest thing
0:43:01 > 0:43:06that could be designed by the government to supposedly support
0:43:06 > 0:43:10trans people and in fact, completely ignore the problem is that that
0:43:10 > 0:43:15might mean for female born women. What it would mean a self
0:43:15 > 0:43:18identification, and we have to take this to its natural conclusion,
0:43:18 > 0:43:26because I have seen this happening in other countries, when you have a
0:43:26 > 0:43:29man with a beard who does not even bother putting a bit of lipstick on
0:43:29 > 0:43:32and goes along to top shop changing rooms and says I am a woman, I self
0:43:32 > 0:43:43identify as a woman, let me in now. If I can say...Did that really
0:43:43 > 0:43:50happen?Yes. There was a 15-year-old girl in top shop changing rooms and
0:43:50 > 0:43:52Topshop is definitely in contradiction with the equalities
0:43:52 > 0:43:59act.Do you accept that that could happen, that there is a risk that if
0:43:59 > 0:44:03there are men self identifying as women, but they have not undergone
0:44:03 > 0:44:08any sort of medical change, that they could then impose themselves,
0:44:08 > 0:44:14like the woman in the film said in a woman's refuge or a changing room?
0:44:14 > 0:44:19Absolutely no. If you split the law out, the Gender Recognition Act has
0:44:19 > 0:44:23zero to do with those things, that is the equality act. If you have a
0:44:23 > 0:44:29problem with that, go and reform the equality act. The Gender Recognition
0:44:29 > 0:44:33Act was constructed because of the way the law involved. To putt people
0:44:33 > 0:44:40were left stateless and in 2004 were given gender back. It covers your
0:44:40 > 0:44:43birth certificate, it covers your ability to marry, insurance and
0:44:43 > 0:44:50pensions. All of which have now been washed away.So this is about legal
0:44:50 > 0:44:55rights. What do you take away from that discussion. Do you sympathise
0:44:55 > 0:44:58with what Julie has set out and what one of the contributors in the film
0:44:58 > 0:45:02set out that it could be the logical conclusion or is it just about
0:45:02 > 0:45:09defining legal rights of people.As a 61-year-old journalist, you seem
0:45:09 > 0:45:14to be saying that mostly men would self reassign based on sexual
0:45:14 > 0:45:18politics. You said as a woman you would have re-signed because of
0:45:18 > 0:45:22sexual politics because he wanted to be a boy because you saw boys were
0:45:22 > 0:45:31getting a better deal.Like many goals.Or you think they will self
0:45:31 > 0:45:34reassign because they want to curve on women in top shop. Although that
0:45:34 > 0:45:36may happen, the chances of that happening are incredibly small and I
0:45:36 > 0:45:43think it is I diversion.
0:45:43 > 0:45:54I was in top shop a few weeks back...They have had quite a big
0:45:54 > 0:46:01promotion here!This lovely woman in the changing room Soltby an outfit
0:46:01 > 0:46:08ii properly should have had and the male changing room assessment said
0:46:08 > 0:46:14something against selling it. The key outtake is there are male
0:46:14 > 0:46:22changing assistance.Let us bring it back to the issue. You have made
0:46:22 > 0:46:30that point. In terms of legal rights, if they are improved by what
0:46:30 > 0:46:37the Government is doing, would you support it?Everyone's should have
0:46:37 > 0:46:42their legal rights protected. Women are a protected category, Sextus
0:46:42 > 0:46:47commission is a valid thing which is why we have segregated spaces
0:46:47 > 0:46:51because the law recognises sexual violence is endemic towards women
0:46:51 > 0:46:57and the main perpetrators are men. It does not mean we are Victorian
0:46:57 > 0:47:00ladies wanting smelling salts in case we see a man near the changing
0:47:00 > 0:47:05room. This is about self identification into a protected
0:47:05 > 0:47:10category. So a man can declare he is a woman, any single bit of
0:47:10 > 0:47:22legislation that protects women will disappear for us. It will be renamed
0:47:22 > 0:47:31as gender which has nothing to do with sex.The medical construct is
0:47:31 > 0:47:34problematic, it does not change trans rights. It changes the
0:47:34 > 0:47:41administration. It does not make it any more or less likely that a man
0:47:41 > 0:47:48will go into a changing room. It takes away a panel where to get
0:47:48 > 0:47:57through that panel you need £500. £140?You need letters from GPs, the
0:47:57 > 0:48:05total cost is 450. The other thing is to get there you need a Murtagh
0:48:05 > 0:48:09years of living accounts, to do that, you need your passport changed
0:48:09 > 0:48:14to female, your driving licence changed. By the time you have got
0:48:14 > 0:48:22there, you have done all the things you should have done. I did get my
0:48:22 > 0:48:29gender surgery a year after I trial -- I started transition. But I still
0:48:29 > 0:48:38had to wait a year after in case I change my mind.It is about the
0:48:38 > 0:48:41admin. Is it too intrusive the process?
0:48:41 > 0:48:50It has to be discussed. We have to talk about it. Programmes like this
0:48:50 > 0:48:54are important. You have raised issues that have never occurred to
0:48:54 > 0:49:00me. On that line about discussing it, we
0:49:00 > 0:49:04couldn't even say Jane was coming on the programme because several
0:49:04 > 0:49:08transgender people will bully people like Jane although Jane will not
0:49:08 > 0:49:13giving, from discussing this. Feminists have wanted to debate
0:49:13 > 0:49:21this. Why do they want to shut you down?
0:49:21 > 0:49:25That is relevant to this. It isn't.
0:49:25 > 0:49:29Why has the debate been so unpleasant?
0:49:29 > 0:49:32People suggest it brings in place, this is about changing the
0:49:32 > 0:49:41administrative process. If I want to put down my money in front of a
0:49:41 > 0:49:49committee... Why is it unpleasant?
0:49:49 > 0:49:54It is... I really don't know. Beyond that I think there has been an
0:49:54 > 0:49:59onslaught by the media, the press have a lot to answer for. This does
0:49:59 > 0:50:05not change legal rights at all. It changes it for women.
0:50:05 > 0:50:11The press have put it out there that it makes changes but it does not.
0:50:11 > 0:50:13In a decision that has angered Leave campaigners, the Royal Mail
0:50:13 > 0:50:17has said it won't be producing a stamp to mark the UK's departure
0:50:17 > 0:50:18from the European Union.
0:50:18 > 0:50:20Not least because a stamp was produced back in 1973
0:50:20 > 0:50:22to mark our accession to the European Economic Community.
0:50:22 > 0:50:23Here it is.
0:50:23 > 0:50:253p.
0:50:25 > 0:50:27You would need 19 of those for second-class post these days.
0:50:27 > 0:50:29Well, should Brexit be marked by a stamp?
0:50:29 > 0:50:36Let's go to Ellie who's on College Green.
0:50:36 > 0:50:41I bet you have written your cards but you could have been reflecting
0:50:41 > 0:50:47on a busy year. And sending them off with a Brexit stamp. Let us discuss
0:50:47 > 0:51:00this. Peter, this isn't going to happen, because the Royal Mail don't
0:51:00 > 0:51:03usually commemorate political events.
0:51:03 > 0:51:08This is a massive historical event. In 1953, they made a bigger about,
0:51:08 > 0:51:13rating going into the EU even without a vote. This might seem
0:51:13 > 0:51:19trivial. It is symbolic which is very important. It is outrageous
0:51:19 > 0:51:23they have already made this decision.
0:51:23 > 0:51:28Eloise, it did happen once before in 1973. This is a momentous event
0:51:28 > 0:51:33whether you like it or not. The reason we shouldn't waste
0:51:33 > 0:51:38taxpayers's money is the process isn't over. There are other steps in
0:51:38 > 0:51:44this democratic process. We won't leave until Parliament votes.
0:51:44 > 0:51:46Otherwise we are leaving that decision to parliaments across
0:51:46 > 0:51:52Europe and I don't want to see that. We should be using issuing stamps
0:51:52 > 0:51:55that celebrate things that bring us together like the royal wedding.
0:51:55 > 0:52:02This is ridiculous. The establishment wanted us to go in in
0:52:02 > 0:52:061973 so they commemorated it. The establishment doesn't like the fact
0:52:06 > 0:52:09we are going out which is why there is no stamp.
0:52:09 > 0:52:13Eloise makes the point it hasn't actually happened and there are
0:52:13 > 0:52:17bigger things to worry about. She mentions taxpayers, we will be
0:52:17 > 0:52:25spending billions on the EU while we're waiting for this deal.
0:52:25 > 0:52:29This is no argument. This is a simple thing, and historic thing,
0:52:29 > 0:52:34going forward into a new era, there should be some commemoration.
0:52:34 > 0:52:41If I may, this is about what people want. They wanted Parliament to
0:52:41 > 0:52:47control and what we have right now, and I am not in denial, we have seen
0:52:47 > 0:52:52what kind of Brexit this Government wants, they haven't decided.
0:52:52 > 0:52:58You don't want a Brexit. If we can bring it to the narrow
0:52:58 > 0:53:05issue of stamps. People voted for it!
0:53:05 > 0:53:12Imagine the unimaginable, we have mocked up a few options for what the
0:53:12 > 0:53:17stamp could look out if it did happen. Peter?
0:53:17 > 0:53:21It would be better that way, at least the union Jack should be on
0:53:21 > 0:53:28the top. I don't want to see the EU in stamps that will commemorate,
0:53:28 > 0:53:34even if we have them, we should not have the stars of the EU. It is a
0:53:34 > 0:53:36new era. New and exciting.
0:53:36 > 0:53:41What do you think? In the interests of balance, we need
0:53:41 > 0:53:46three examples of stamps we might have if the British people don't
0:53:46 > 0:53:49want to Brexit and if the Parliament votes that.
0:53:49 > 0:53:55But they do want to Brexit. We have a balloon floating away from
0:53:55 > 0:53:58the EU. Theresa May's balloon does not have
0:53:58 > 0:54:04a knot in it, it is fizzling out. I don't want to see the stars, we
0:54:04 > 0:54:08have had 14 years of that. That is a decent compromise.
0:54:08 > 0:54:16That could work. Ripped out. Totally negative. This
0:54:16 > 0:54:20is like nothing and this is still a lie. You have to accept democracy,
0:54:20 > 0:54:25Eloise. Parliamentary sovereignty and
0:54:25 > 0:54:29democracy and if we don't have that vote on the final deal, we are
0:54:29 > 0:54:32leaving it to other countries to decide.
0:54:32 > 0:54:37No, we are not, we voted to come out.
0:54:37 > 0:54:46What would you like to see? Let us wait and see until the end of
0:54:46 > 0:54:50the process. This isn't done until it is done and people don't want to
0:54:50 > 0:54:55note it is yet a done deal. We should have a big union Jack,
0:54:55 > 0:55:01things to celebrate, all the things open to us in the future and not
0:55:01 > 0:55:06negative examples. I will have to stop you there. A bit
0:55:06 > 0:55:10like everything over Brexit, a long process which people will talk about
0:55:10 > 0:55:14over a couple of years and whether it may or may not happen.
0:55:14 > 0:55:18I am told the royal bell go through the process of talking through
0:55:18 > 0:55:21things and it takes a few years for experts to decide what happens in
0:55:21 > 0:55:29the end. Peter is looking at me!
0:55:29 > 0:55:32Brexit causing such debates!
0:55:32 > 0:55:33Now.
0:55:33 > 0:55:35Christmas is just the around the corner, and there's no Christmas
0:55:35 > 0:55:42tradition more cherished than pulling a cracker
0:55:42 > 0:55:44to reveal a tacky knick-knack, flimsy paper hat and,
0:55:44 > 0:55:46of course, a rubbish joke.
0:55:46 > 0:55:49UK TV Gold have held a competition to identify the best Christmas
0:55:49 > 0:55:51cracker joke, with quite a few political jokes amongst them.
0:55:51 > 0:55:53Comedy critic Bruce Dessau judged the competition.
0:55:53 > 0:55:58And is ready to pull some crackers with me and Richard now.
0:55:58 > 0:56:06We have got three. You are excited? Let us pull the cracker. Ready, go.
0:56:06 > 0:56:09There goes the knick-knack, get the joke out. I lost both.
0:56:09 > 0:56:17Bruce? This one came about three in the
0:56:17 > 0:56:21chart, question, why did Donald Trump continuously decorate the
0:56:21 > 0:56:32Christmas tree? Answer, because people kept saying more-on.
0:56:32 > 0:56:35Why did Jeremy Corbyn asked people not to eat sprouts on Christmas Day.
0:56:35 > 0:56:49Because he wants to give peas... A chance.And the Christmas hats?
0:56:49 > 0:56:54But there is no food or alcohol. You haven't got one?
0:56:54 > 0:56:58Richard, don't pretend. You can between each other pull the last
0:56:58 > 0:57:06one. Bruce, it is you again. Shall I get the joke out. And put the hat
0:57:06 > 0:57:10on. Read that last joke. This actually
0:57:10 > 0:57:14one. It came first.
0:57:14 > 0:57:20Make what you will. I didn't choose the winner.
0:57:20 > 0:57:27The great British public chose. Why was Theresa May sat as Nativity
0:57:27 > 0:57:33manager? She couldn't run a stable
0:57:33 > 0:57:35Government! Strong and stable.
0:57:35 > 0:57:40And which was your favourite? I liked the Donald Trump joke.
0:57:40 > 0:57:45And yours? I liked the Donald Trump joke. Are
0:57:45 > 0:57:48you surprised by the high number of political jokes and the fact they
0:57:48 > 0:57:53are good. I want if Donald Trump cent per
0:57:53 > 0:57:57month in himself? It is a reflection of what people are thinking about.
0:57:57 > 0:58:01Maybe we have become a nation of satirists. We're not a nation
0:58:01 > 0:58:07shopkeepers anymore. Andrew Neil always used to say they
0:58:07 > 0:58:14are not talking about these subjects in the pub. But now they are. Do you
0:58:14 > 0:58:19like the tradition of pulling the Christmas crackers and the jokes
0:58:19 > 0:58:22inside? I do but I have never received a
0:58:22 > 0:58:30present better than the little patch of screwdrivers -- pack of
0:58:30 > 0:58:41screwdrivers. I have drawers full of them.
0:58:41 > 0:58:44Thank you for coming in, I feel like Christmas has started.
0:58:44 > 0:58:45That's all for today.
0:58:45 > 0:58:47Thanks to our guests.
0:58:47 > 0:58:54The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now.
0:58:54 > 0:58:56Bye-bye.