0:00:39 > 0:00:41Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics
0:00:41 > 0:00:43and Westminster, where Theresa May is reshuffling
0:00:43 > 0:00:47her team of ministers.
0:00:47 > 0:00:50Several new faces are expected around the Cabinet table,
0:00:50 > 0:00:52although big figures like Philip Hammond and Boris
0:00:52 > 0:00:55Johnson are predicted to stay put.
0:00:55 > 0:00:58Labour says it's a desperate PR exercise, so does it have any
0:00:58 > 0:01:01chance of rejuvinating the Mrs May's Government?
0:01:01 > 0:01:05MPs are back at Westminster and they've got a busy workload
0:01:05 > 0:01:08with plenty of new Brexit legislation on the way,
0:01:08 > 0:01:11we'll be taking a look at what's on their plate.
0:01:11 > 0:01:15Hospitals are under huge pressure this winter
0:01:15 > 0:01:17with overcrowded A&Es, a lack of beds and
0:01:17 > 0:01:21queues of ambulances.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24Is now the time for politicians to agree on a new approach
0:01:24 > 0:01:26to funding the NHS?
0:01:26 > 0:01:29The United States is just one country heading to the polls this
0:01:29 > 0:01:32year in what's set to be another busy political year,
0:01:32 > 0:01:41we'll bring you our guide to elections around the world.
0:01:41 > 0:01:43All that to come in the next hour of low-calorie,
0:01:43 > 0:01:48alcohol-free political discussion.
0:01:48 > 0:01:52Yes, it's our first show of 2018, and joining me for all of it,
0:01:52 > 0:01:55two MPs who made a New Year's resolution to appear more often
0:01:55 > 0:02:00on the Daily Poilitics - who knew it was so easy -
0:02:00 > 0:02:02it's the Shadow Defence Secretary, Labour's Nia Griffith,
0:02:02 > 0:02:03and the Conservative Kwasi Kwarteng.
0:02:03 > 0:02:12Welcome both of you.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14It will be a cheery start to the new working year
0:02:14 > 0:02:16at Westminster for some Conservatives - other than Kwasi
0:02:16 > 0:02:19that is, he's always cheerful - and a miserable one for others,
0:02:19 > 0:02:22as they find out who's been promoted or demoted in a reshuffle
0:02:22 > 0:02:25which will see Theresa May give some a leg up the ministerial ladder,
0:02:25 > 0:02:32and others a friendly shove down the greasy pole.
0:02:34 > 0:02:38It has been painted as a show of strength she will reshuffle her
0:02:38 > 0:02:43Cabinet, but it is not a show of strength. She's been forced into it
0:02:43 > 0:02:46because of high-profile resignations before Christmas?There were two
0:02:46 > 0:02:53things. Both were right. Yes, it wouldn't have happened necessarily
0:02:53 > 0:02:57if Damian Green had stayed. What people were saying after the
0:02:57 > 0:03:01election, was that nothing happened. It was a minimal, low-key reshuffle
0:03:01 > 0:03:03and people were saying the Prime Minister wasn't strong enough.
0:03:03 > 0:03:07Today, the beginning of 2018, we'll have a wide reshuffle. As you said,
0:03:07 > 0:03:12there are a lot of new faces. I think that is a show of strength.
0:03:12 > 0:03:16Yes, we have already heard that the party chairman is leaving. We have
0:03:16 > 0:03:20heard one or two other Cabinet ministers resigning, not because
0:03:20 > 0:03:23they were sacked, but because of health and other personal reasons.
0:03:23 > 0:03:27There'll be a lot of new faces around the table. That is a good
0:03:27 > 0:03:30thing. It is something which parties do, Governments do, from time to
0:03:30 > 0:03:36time. And it can refresh and sharpen the message.It may be, but she may
0:03:36 > 0:03:39seize the opportunity as a result of Damian Green leaving before
0:03:39 > 0:03:43Christmas, or deciding to. You mentioned Cabinet ministers leaving
0:03:43 > 0:03:47for health reasons. We know about the former Northern Ireland
0:03:47 > 0:03:56Secretary. Are there others then who are resigning for health reasons?I
0:03:56 > 0:04:00didn't know the exact reasons but I was told the announcement would be
0:04:00 > 0:04:04made. You have been let in on the secret and we all know about that
0:04:04 > 0:04:17now.You mentioned Patrick McLoughlin. Who would be a good
0:04:17 > 0:04:22party chairman?I think there are many good communicators. People like
0:04:22 > 0:04:28bran Dan Lewis is very effective. There are a lot of other people.
0:04:28 > 0:04:31What about Chris Grayling, who is the current Transport Secretary?He
0:04:31 > 0:04:36is highly effective. He was the head of Theresa May's campaign for the
0:04:36 > 0:04:40leadership, which was effective. It was successful. He is a good, strong
0:04:40 > 0:04:44communicator. He's been at Cabinet level for a while now.There seems
0:04:44 > 0:04:52to be a certain amount of confusion, because the Conservative Partying
0:04:52 > 0:04:56accidentally congratulated Chris Grayling on his apaintment and then
0:04:56 > 0:05:00de-- appointment and then deleted it.I have not seen what is going
0:05:00 > 0:05:05on. I am not the person to ask about high-level appointments like that.
0:05:05 > 0:05:09If we are talking about a position of strength for the Prime Minister,
0:05:09 > 0:05:12she has U-turned on another manifesto pledge. She did that
0:05:12 > 0:05:16yesterday n the broadcast with Andrew Marr. This time on
0:05:16 > 0:05:21fox-hunting. Why?I think fox-hunting was an issue which came
0:05:21 > 0:05:25up a bit in the election. It is something which people felt wasn't
0:05:25 > 0:05:30really strictly a priority. It shouldn't be a priority and the
0:05:30 > 0:05:34Prime Minister has adapted the message to that. The fact is we have
0:05:34 > 0:05:39a hung parliament. So many of the things in the manifesto will have to
0:05:39 > 0:05:45be a subject to compromise. That was one of them.You could say she won
0:05:45 > 0:05:51the election even with a reduced majority. Why is she abandoning
0:05:51 > 0:05:55manifesto pledges, whether it was grammar schools and now it is
0:05:55 > 0:05:59fox-hunting. What else will she U-turn on?We have a hung
0:05:59 > 0:06:05parliament. We have the most extensive legislative programme
0:06:05 > 0:06:08given the Brexit, given the EU withdrawal and there are provisions
0:06:08 > 0:06:12of time. There is not enough time to get everything you put in the
0:06:12 > 0:06:15manifesto. Things have to give. I think the Prime Minister is showing
0:06:15 > 0:06:21flexibility on that.There's plenty of speculation. All is not yet
0:06:21 > 0:06:31clear. Let's look at what we know so far.
0:06:31 > 0:06:37If Theresa May keeps the position, which was seen as her deputy,
0:06:37 > 0:06:41speculation is it could go to Jeremy Hunt or to the Justice Secretary,
0:06:41 > 0:06:47David Liddington. This morning, Northern Ireland Secretary resigned
0:06:47 > 0:06:51from the Cabinet, citing health reasons. Patrick McLoughlin also
0:06:51 > 0:06:56relinquished his role as Conservative Party chairman. Amongst
0:06:56 > 0:06:59the names is Transport Secretary Chris Grayling. Those who are
0:06:59 > 0:07:06believed to be facing demotion, or a side-ways move include Justine
0:07:06 > 0:07:10Greening and Leader of the House, Andrea Leadsom. The top jobs are
0:07:10 > 0:07:14expected to remain broadly the same, with Philip Hammond staying on as
0:07:14 > 0:07:20Chancellor. Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary Amber Rudd at the Home
0:07:20 > 0:07:24Office and David Davis as Brexit secretary. Michael Gove is also
0:07:24 > 0:07:29likely to stay on as Environment Secretary. The changes could provide
0:07:29 > 0:07:34an opportunity for others, which former nurse Anne Milton tipped to
0:07:34 > 0:07:40take over as Health Secretary, should Jeremy Hunt move. And Brandon
0:07:40 > 0:07:44Lewis, Dominic Raab and James Cleverly expected to receive a
0:07:44 > 0:07:49promotion. Steve Baker may see his position elevated if he is invited
0:07:49 > 0:07:54to attend Cabinet meetings as the minister for no deal. Well, I think
0:07:54 > 0:08:01we can find out more on what Fleet Street makes of this reshuffle.
0:08:01 > 0:08:07with Tom Newton Dunn from the Sun and Lucy Fisher from the Times.
0:08:07 > 0:08:12We had the resignation, there is fevered speculation about the role
0:08:12 > 0:08:16of party chairman. Will this reshuffle turn out to be more
0:08:16 > 0:08:21wide-ranging than anticipated?It is unclear. I don't want to make myself
0:08:21 > 0:08:26a hostage to fortune. Something which needs to be said is with Boris
0:08:26 > 0:08:30Johnson and Philip Hammond in place, this will be more about what the
0:08:30 > 0:08:34Prime Minister isn't able to do as much as what she is able to do. The
0:08:34 > 0:08:38party chairman role is something everyone is looking closely at. The
0:08:38 > 0:08:42huge shake-up which needs to come, following the election disaster. A
0:08:42 > 0:08:46lot of mistakes, mishaps in the party conference last year, the
0:08:46 > 0:08:49appointment of regional chairman, how they try to get the membership
0:08:49 > 0:08:54up. That will be a big issue.We will talk more about rejuvenating
0:08:54 > 0:09:00the party and how the Government intends to do that. But Tom Newton
0:09:00 > 0:09:05Dunn there has been talk about Jeremy Hunt replacing Damian Green
0:09:05 > 0:09:11as the de facto deputy. How likely is that now?I am told it is
0:09:11 > 0:09:14probably unlikely, simply because there will not be a like-for-like
0:09:14 > 0:09:18replacement. There probably will not be a First Secretary of State, which
0:09:18 > 0:09:23is the job that he had. The problem with reshuffle days is you can get a
0:09:23 > 0:09:26line from number ten and people close to the Prime Minister early on
0:09:26 > 0:09:31because they have their battle plan. The battle plan comes into contact
0:09:31 > 0:09:34with the enemy, as all decent battles to and it starts to fall
0:09:34 > 0:09:38apart when ministers don't go in the same direction you want them to and
0:09:38 > 0:09:42get upset about the jobsed they are offered. My -- jobs they are
0:09:42 > 0:09:46offered. My feeling was that Brandon Lewis, who we have seen going to
0:09:46 > 0:09:51Number Ten is going to be the new party chairman and a dynamic,
0:09:51 > 0:09:57younger character, is he annual probably good for the -- is he
0:09:57 > 0:10:03probably good for the job. I will put a fair bit of money on Hunt
0:10:03 > 0:10:09going to business. Jeremy Hunt has been speaking about the need to
0:10:09 > 0:10:16revitalise the economy and get the nation shipshape in terms of
0:10:16 > 0:10:20rebalancing the trades and industries that used to exist, maybe
0:10:20 > 0:10:24not as productive away from the European Union. The whole big tech
0:10:24 > 0:10:29build up. The country needs to change considerably to compete on a
0:10:29 > 0:10:33different playing field, which is what Brexit is all about. Hunt to
0:10:33 > 0:10:40business will be the big star of the day. To revitalise what has been a
0:10:40 > 0:10:44woeful Tory Party election machine. Lucy, taking on the point that
0:10:44 > 0:10:49battle plans don't always go to plan and you may have a lovely grid
0:10:49 > 0:10:54worked out with how you'll reshuffle the pack of cards. Is that why there
0:10:54 > 0:10:57was a tweet from the Conservative Party, who seem to accidentally
0:10:57 > 0:11:02publish that Chris Grayling, the Transport Secretary was going to
0:11:02 > 0:11:06become the new chairman - in fact, there it is. Congratulations to him
0:11:06 > 0:11:11following his appointment. We have just shown that on screen and then
0:11:11 > 0:11:15it was quickly deleted. Does that show confusion and chaos in terms of
0:11:15 > 0:11:22this reshuffle, if, as Tom says, it will be Brandon Lewis?That is what
0:11:22 > 0:11:27it points to. Confusion from where the tweet came. I think if it turns
0:11:27 > 0:11:32out to be wrong, and that message come from the official Conservative
0:11:32 > 0:11:37Party account, really it is the perfect example of why they need a
0:11:37 > 0:11:49major shake up. With Labour have good use of video and they are
0:11:49 > 0:11:52lagging in that aspect of campaigning and yet another priority
0:11:52 > 0:11:56that the new party chairman will have to take on.The new party
0:11:56 > 0:11:59chairman role will have an impact as far as the Government and the
0:11:59 > 0:12:03Conservative Party is concerned. But what about the wider impact, Tom? If
0:12:03 > 0:12:07there is no movement of the Chancellor or the Foreign Secretary
0:12:07 > 0:12:11or Home Secretary, how significant is this reshuffle?I think you can
0:12:11 > 0:12:20do quite a lot with the second order. A new secretary to reshape
0:12:20 > 0:12:23the country or bring the country up to speed for a post Brexit future is
0:12:23 > 0:12:28a big thing to do and you can capture a lot of headlines. Perhaps
0:12:28 > 0:12:31a new Education Secretary. I would be surprised if we didn't have a new
0:12:31 > 0:12:35Education Secretary by the end of the day. That is a new mission to
0:12:35 > 0:12:40take on some of the reforming zeal we saw with Michael Gove and the
0:12:40 > 0:12:44coalition Government which has been lacking a little bit. Take on the
0:12:44 > 0:12:48Prime Minister's more free schools, more academies. Maybe return to the
0:12:48 > 0:12:52grammar schools agenda. What knows? Perhaps a new Health Secretary as
0:12:52 > 0:13:02well. Which you could build some fresh bridges. There is workman-like
0:13:02 > 0:13:09stuff you can do with this. And you can recast agendas on stuff which
0:13:09 > 0:13:12matter to the Prime Minister, like education, skills and industrial
0:13:12 > 0:13:16strategy. What you cannot do is completely change the direction of
0:13:16 > 0:13:21your Government, which are occupied be I the big beasts. Philip Hammond,
0:13:21 > 0:13:26Boris Johnson, Amber Rudd - the three Titans of the Cabinet at the
0:13:26 > 0:13:30moment. Lucy is right. The reason why the Prime Minister, I agree, I
0:13:30 > 0:13:35think she would want to move two out of the three. Amber Rudd who has
0:13:35 > 0:13:40impressed universally over the last year in that job. She can do that
0:13:40 > 0:13:47because as Lucy says, she is not strong enough. She will come under
0:13:47 > 0:13:52threat from a faction behind a faction behind Philip Hammond, the.
0:13:52 > 0:13:56If she removes the two people who are seen to be pivotal to that sort
0:13:56 > 0:14:00of wing of the party.Thank you very much for your insights. I will let
0:14:00 > 0:14:05you go. No doubt there'll be plenty of people to chase after or on
0:14:05 > 0:14:09twitter anyway. That is the bottom line, isn't it?
0:14:09 > 0:14:13If Theresa May was in a position of power and strength and could shape
0:14:13 > 0:14:18her top team the way she wanted to, then she would move Boris Johnson
0:14:18 > 0:14:22and Philip Hammond. She would look at the big Cabinet posts?I think
0:14:22 > 0:14:26what Tom says is completely wrong. Not all Cabinet reshuffles move the
0:14:26 > 0:14:32big beasts. I was an MP during the coalition Government. For four years
0:14:32 > 0:14:36we had the same Chancellor. William Hague was Foreign Secretary.It was
0:14:36 > 0:14:41a coalition. You had to negotiation with your coalition partners.David
0:14:41 > 0:14:46Cameron was very strong. This idea that you change a big beast, big
0:14:46 > 0:14:51jobs every year is ridiculous. The Budget last autumn was very
0:14:51 > 0:14:55successful. There wasn't a hair on it. It was well received. It would
0:14:55 > 0:14:58be crazy for the Prime Minister to move the Chancellor at this point. I
0:14:58 > 0:15:08think what Tom said is wrong. If you look Foreign Secretaries often
0:15:08 > 0:15:12staying in the same position where I did agree with Tom is this business
0:15:12 > 0:15:16about the Business Secretary. That is significant.Would you be pleased
0:15:16 > 0:15:21if it were Jeremy Hunt?I think he could do a lot of jobs. He's a very
0:15:21 > 0:15:22talented politician.
0:15:30 > 0:15:35He is the longest serving Health Secretary.Doesn't mean he's good.
0:15:35 > 0:15:39He knows the job inside out and if he stays that would be good but if
0:15:39 > 0:15:43he moves I understand that and it wouldn't be surprising.Do you
0:15:43 > 0:15:49welcome this reshuffle and this change at the top?Really it's about
0:15:49 > 0:15:53moving chairs around on the Titanic. What people really want to know was
0:15:53 > 0:15:57what they will do about the stagnating economy, the shortage of
0:15:57 > 0:16:01housing, young people facing escalating housing costs and student
0:16:01 > 0:16:07debt. These are everyday issues and people want answers. This is a
0:16:07 > 0:16:10deeply unpopular Conservative government and I'm not convinced at
0:16:10 > 0:16:14all that any amount of reshuffling will make any difference unless they
0:16:14 > 0:16:20radically change their policies.I think Nia is right, it is the media
0:16:20 > 0:16:28that obsesses about positions and people.So you agree...I agree the
0:16:28 > 0:16:32main battle, the main debate should be about these core issues in terms
0:16:32 > 0:16:37of housing, in terms of how the NHS is funded under the economy, where I
0:16:37 > 0:16:43think the Government has a story to tell. And Labour would be completely
0:16:43 > 0:16:48disastrous.Do you think there should be a cabinet minister for
0:16:48 > 0:16:52Housing, for example?Housing is very significant, it sits within
0:16:52 > 0:16:58DCLG and Sajid Javid has been pushing lots of ideas.But should
0:16:58 > 0:17:04there be a minister, that would be a radical move.Again, I think we are
0:17:04 > 0:17:07fixating with people and institutions, not looking at policy.
0:17:07 > 0:17:11The main thing that will help people is the right policies.Let's take a
0:17:11 > 0:17:19break for a moment and go to Norman Smith in Downing Street. Can you
0:17:19 > 0:17:24tell us any more about this reshuffle?Some of the movements -
0:17:24 > 0:17:29Brandon Lewis, the Immigration Minister, is the first person into
0:17:29 > 0:17:34Number Ten. Speculation, that will be to take the party chairman post.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37Shortly after then, Patrick McLoughlin came out of Number Ten,
0:17:37 > 0:17:43the existing party chairman, and went off down Downing Street, didn't
0:17:43 > 0:17:49say anything, but looks like a man who was walking out of government
0:17:49 > 0:17:57after a long time on the front bench. Then the Parliamentary aide I
0:17:57 > 0:18:01think to Brandon Lewis arrived at Number Ten. This is guesswork but I
0:18:01 > 0:18:05think all of these changes are centred around Central office. You
0:18:05 > 0:18:10could have Brandon Lewis as party chairman and maybe James cleverly
0:18:10 > 0:18:14would be his number two in an attempt to reinvigorate the
0:18:14 > 0:18:17Conservative election machine which of course failed in the last
0:18:17 > 0:18:21election and is viewed generally as being off the pace, certainly
0:18:21 > 0:18:24compared to labour when it comes down to recruiting new members, when
0:18:24 > 0:18:28it comes down to social media, digital campaigning and that sort of
0:18:28 > 0:18:33thing. There's a clear desire to shake up Central office and I think
0:18:33 > 0:18:39that's what the arrival of Brandon Lewis and James Cleverly was about
0:18:39 > 0:18:44this morning. Unconfirmed though, just my best effort at a guess.OK,
0:18:44 > 0:18:48thank you. We were just hearing from Tom Newton Dunn speculating on
0:18:48 > 0:18:54Jeremy Hunt moving, and there wouldn't be a like-for-like
0:18:54 > 0:19:04replacement of Damian Green as de facto secretary to Theresa May. Is
0:19:04 > 0:19:09there any confirmation on any of that?No, all that is possible.
0:19:09 > 0:19:13Jeremy Hunt is a business background, would you want to move
0:19:13 > 0:19:20him in the current pressure on the NHS at this precise moment? Maybe
0:19:20 > 0:19:26not. In terms of the Damian Green post, I think it is correct there
0:19:26 > 0:19:30won't be a formal Deputy Prime Minister with all of the bangs and
0:19:30 > 0:19:35baubles Damian Green had but I think Mrs May will want someone who can
0:19:35 > 0:19:40act as her eyes and ears in Government sitting on the
0:19:40 > 0:19:44innumerable committees Damian Green sat on, her fixer within government
0:19:44 > 0:19:48so there will be someone who takes up that post even if they may not be
0:19:48 > 0:19:53formal Deputy Prime Minister.We have been talking over the last few
0:19:53 > 0:19:58months about Brexit and how much it has dominated the agenda but do you
0:19:58 > 0:20:02think the reshuffle today will answer or Theresa May will try to
0:20:02 > 0:20:05answer the criticism about government policy regarding key
0:20:05 > 0:20:12public services like the NHS, like the railways, and the economy?To be
0:20:12 > 0:20:17honest, I think it's beyond any reshuffle to address those sort of
0:20:17 > 0:20:21issues. Most people frankly couldn't care who is appointed to whatever
0:20:21 > 0:20:28post, they probably don't even know who they are and why should they. So
0:20:28 > 0:20:31reshuffle will not provide a solution to the difficulties the
0:20:31 > 0:20:36Government may face on railways, health or whatever. I think the aim
0:20:36 > 0:20:39of the reshuffle is more constrained, designed partly in
0:20:39 > 0:20:44terms of party management to give younger, newer MPs their chance to
0:20:44 > 0:20:48shine. There's been pressure building there, and also to present
0:20:48 > 0:20:55a more diverse image of the Conservative Party with more women,
0:20:55 > 0:20:58more MPs from ethnic minorities. I would suggest Mrs May's ambitions
0:20:58 > 0:21:02are more limited in terms of what she hopes to achieve from this
0:21:02 > 0:21:11reshuffle.Norman Smith in Downing Street, thank you. Parliament is
0:21:11 > 0:21:17getting back to work and it is set to be packed to them for MPs, not
0:21:17 > 0:21:23least on the subject of Brexit.
0:21:23 > 0:21:25So as negotiations continue in Brussels, what exactly
0:21:25 > 0:21:26will MPs be debating?
0:21:26 > 0:21:28This week the Commons will see the second reading
0:21:28 > 0:21:30of new trade and customs bills.
0:21:30 > 0:21:32Those will implement a new framework for an independent trade
0:21:32 > 0:21:33policy after Brexit.
0:21:33 > 0:21:37Next week MPs will vote on the next stage on the over-arching
0:21:37 > 0:21:38EU Withdrawal Bill.
0:21:38 > 0:21:40The bill has already been amended numerous times
0:21:40 > 0:21:42and currently more than 20 further amendments have been
0:21:42 > 0:21:43tabled for this stage.
0:21:43 > 0:21:47If it clears the Commons, the bill will go on to the Lords for further
0:21:47 > 0:21:49consideration at the end of the month.
0:21:49 > 0:21:51One key piece of legislation that hasn't yet been published
0:21:51 > 0:21:53is the new immigration bill
0:21:53 > 0:21:55to establish new national policies on immigration once the UK
0:21:55 > 0:21:59ends free movement of people from the European Union.
0:21:59 > 0:22:02Well, the SNP is of course the third largest party in the Commons,
0:22:02 > 0:22:05and over the Christmas break they've been urging Labour to join forces
0:22:05 > 0:22:09to keep the UK in the single market and the customs union after Brexit.
0:22:09 > 0:22:11And the party's Europe spokesman Stephen Gethins joins
0:22:11 > 0:22:17us from the Commons.
0:22:17 > 0:22:22Welcome to the programme, happy New Year. You invited Jeremy Corbyn to
0:22:22 > 0:22:25this cross-party meeting, he wrote back to say he wasn't going to
0:22:25 > 0:22:32attend. Is it worth having this meeting if the Labour leader isn't
0:22:32 > 0:22:36there?Obviously it is disappointing Labour won't participate, especially
0:22:36 > 0:22:39in the Parliament of minorities when you have a situation whereby parties
0:22:39 > 0:22:45need to work together to get the least worst option for what is a
0:22:45 > 0:22:49pretty catastrophic Brexit process. I think Ian Blackford did the right
0:22:49 > 0:22:53thing, to write to the parties, put aside our differences because
0:22:53 > 0:23:01maintaining the customs union and single market is one worth having.
0:23:01 > 0:23:05Do you think it says Jeremy Corbyn doesn't support the idea of
0:23:05 > 0:23:10remaining in the single market and customs union?I think it says
0:23:10 > 0:23:13Jeremy Corbyn has failed yet again to take an opportunity to try and
0:23:13 > 0:23:17get the least worst option is out of Brexit which will help save jobs and
0:23:17 > 0:23:22help the economy. We're not talking about the best option, that is
0:23:22 > 0:23:27staying part of the European Union. It is disappointed at a time when we
0:23:27 > 0:23:30could be working together that Jeremy Corbyn seems to be the best
0:23:30 > 0:23:37ally the hard Brexiteers have the moment.Is that what he is?I think
0:23:37 > 0:23:43Stephen Gettys needs to get real. We accept the referendum went in favour
0:23:43 > 0:23:47of Brexit and we are doing our best to get the Government to see sense
0:23:47 > 0:23:52on this. We want to protect industry and jobs is much as we can therefore
0:23:52 > 0:23:56have the best possible relationship with the single market, the customs
0:23:56 > 0:23:59union, and we want the Government to realise they will clearly not get
0:23:59 > 0:24:06everything done by a year in March and they need a transition period.
0:24:06 > 0:24:12But there will be. So what's the difference between the optician...
0:24:12 > 0:24:16We were clear last August we wanted a proper transition period so
0:24:16 > 0:24:21business can plan now. They are already planning for a year hence
0:24:21 > 0:24:25and many planning for ten years hence. There have been questions
0:24:25 > 0:24:27about whether to have this transition period so that's the
0:24:27 > 0:24:33first thing we would say. Secondly, we are clear any Brexit negotiations
0:24:33 > 0:24:35must protect jobs in this country and that means trying to negotiate
0:24:35 > 0:24:40the best deal we camped in terms of access to the single market, in
0:24:40 > 0:24:45terms of a form of customs union.I still don't see the difference
0:24:45 > 0:24:49between your position and the Government's position because the
0:24:49 > 0:24:53Government is seeking a transition period and that will be debated.
0:24:53 > 0:25:04It's not just the SNP
0:25:11 > 0:25:14that is critical in your stance of not going to the meeting, so does
0:25:14 > 0:25:17Tony Blair. What do you say to his remarks - if Labour insists on
0:25:17 > 0:25:19leaving the single market, the handmaiden of Brexit will have been
0:25:19 > 0:25:21the timidity of Labour.The important thing we are standing
0:25:21 > 0:25:23for...What would you say to Tony Blair?We don't want a second
0:25:23 > 0:25:26referendum, that would undermine the process, we respect the result but
0:25:26 > 0:25:30we clearly want the best deal for the UK.Without being part of the
0:25:30 > 0:25:36single market or customs union?We have to have a form of customs union
0:25:36 > 0:25:41and the point being that a country on its own cannot decide those. We
0:25:41 > 0:25:45have 27 other countries to negotiate with and we want to create the best
0:25:45 > 0:25:49rapport, not shouting from the hilltops or walking out of talks but
0:25:49 > 0:25:58have the best rapport with the 27 to get the best deal we can.Stephen
0:25:58 > 0:26:05Gethins, Labour will plough its own furrow.That's a very disappointing
0:26:05 > 0:26:09response from Nia and one that a lot of her colleagues disagree with. The
0:26:09 > 0:26:14best option for jobs and the economy is membership of the single market.
0:26:14 > 0:26:18That is best for jobs and the economy. We have said we will
0:26:18 > 0:26:21compromise and that's why we work together with other parties but
0:26:21 > 0:26:26Labour's chaos on this is letting Tories off the hook when they are
0:26:26 > 0:26:30making a mess of this and we have a responsibility to save as many jobs
0:26:30 > 0:26:35out of this as we can. We know from economists and others that
0:26:35 > 0:26:39membership of the single market is the least worst option at the
0:26:39 > 0:26:45moment.Without Labour, what are you hoping to achieve?I already tried
0:26:45 > 0:26:49to work with a number of Labour MPs but we are trying to reach out to
0:26:49 > 0:26:54members, look at where we can get common ground. With these key bits
0:26:54 > 0:26:58of legislation coming up, let's look at some of the amendments we can do.
0:26:58 > 0:27:02No one party has the majority of wisdom soaks speaking and listening
0:27:02 > 0:27:07to one another is a good start.You are at a bit of a dead-end. You can
0:27:07 > 0:27:13reach out as much as you like, I mean even the EU has moved on in
0:27:13 > 0:27:22terms of negotiations, Labour is not willing to come to your meeting for
0:27:22 > 0:27:25whatever reason, and Michel Barnier once things signed off by October.
0:27:25 > 0:27:28We have had a compromise now for well over a year that we have set
0:27:28 > 0:27:33out, it wasn't just one we came up with, but it was an existing plan of
0:27:33 > 0:27:39businesses and economists as well. It's not what we would have wanted,
0:27:39 > 0:27:44but critically on the single market and this is important - people like
0:27:44 > 0:27:47Dan Hannan, Brexiteers who provided what little intellectual heavy
0:27:47 > 0:27:53lifting there was to be done for Brexit argued for staying in the
0:27:53 > 0:27:58single market. Ruth Davidson argued after the referendum we should
0:27:58 > 0:28:03retain membership of the single market. If those promises are kept,
0:28:03 > 0:28:08you will have a majority in favour of staying in the single market but
0:28:08 > 0:28:12Labour need to start getting stuck into this Government on this issue.
0:28:12 > 0:28:17Before I go back to Nia, there is a splitting cabinet about power line
0:28:17 > 0:28:22and Britain should be as we move towards these negotiations. Do you
0:28:22 > 0:28:28favour closer alignment to the EU?I don't accept the promises of your
0:28:28 > 0:28:33question. I think there's a debate, I don't think it is in the binary
0:28:33 > 0:28:40battle between close alignment or sharp exit.Closer to the status quo
0:28:40 > 0:28:45or moving away?I've always been a Brexiteer, but it is not a binary
0:28:45 > 0:28:49thing. We will be able to diverged, that is what I want to do, I want to
0:28:49 > 0:28:54control the borders of this country and keep more of our money, and I
0:28:54 > 0:28:59want to have...But the time frame is fairly fluid.I want Parliament
0:28:59 > 0:29:04to be sovereign. I don't think the time frame is that fluid, but we
0:29:04 > 0:29:10have got to show flexibility and we have. We now have a two year
0:29:10 > 0:29:13implementation period which we didn't have. We are leaving the
0:29:13 > 0:29:19single market and customs union, I hope, but I think it is a process.
0:29:19 > 0:29:23Do you expect to have an agreement on the transition period by the end
0:29:23 > 0:29:26of March this year?I'm very confident we will get a very good
0:29:26 > 0:29:33deal with the EU.All right, that's not an answer to the question.I
0:29:33 > 0:29:42think so.Stephen Gethins, thank you.
0:29:42 > 0:29:44You might remember that in October last year,
0:29:44 > 0:29:46three of the UK's leading remain supporters - Ken Clarke,
0:29:46 > 0:29:49Nick Clegg and Andrew Adonis - went to Brussels to meet
0:29:49 > 0:29:51with Michel Barnier, he's the chief Brexit negotiator
0:29:51 > 0:29:52for the European Commission.
0:29:52 > 0:29:53They were criticised by some who claimed
0:29:53 > 0:29:56they were seeking to undermine the British Government's position.
0:29:56 > 0:29:58Well, Mr Barnier said his door is always open
0:29:58 > 0:30:00to senior political figures, and this morning he had a visit
0:30:00 > 0:30:02from the former Ukip leader Nigel Farage, who says
0:30:02 > 0:30:05he was there to speak for the 17.4 million Brexit voters.
0:30:05 > 0:30:06So, what did they discuss?
0:30:06 > 0:30:09Well, Mr Farage joins us from Brussels now.
0:30:09 > 0:30:16So did he welcome you with open arms?He was very polite, he offered
0:30:16 > 0:30:21me coffee which surprised me.What did you think he was going to offer
0:30:21 > 0:30:25you?Believe me, if you are invited into a meeting and coffee is not
0:30:25 > 0:30:29offered you are probably going to get the sack in life so this was a
0:30:29 > 0:30:34positive start I thought! Who was very cordial, he always is to be
0:30:34 > 0:30:38fair. I've met him many times in the European Parliament and Strasbourg.
0:30:38 > 0:30:45I started off by asking him, did he really understand what the key
0:30:45 > 0:30:50drivers were behind us voting for Brexit? And it was very clear he
0:30:50 > 0:30:55didn't. He started to talk about economics and what the disadvantages
0:30:55 > 0:31:01may be. I said this is way beyond economics. It's about controlling
0:31:01 > 0:31:07your own borders, making your own laws.
0:31:07 > 0:31:13It was a major driver of the Brexit vote. And the answer was, no, he did
0:31:13 > 0:31:20not. I thought what was interesting is I'd gone there. You are right
0:31:20 > 0:31:25when I saw Lord Adonis, Kenneth Clarke and Nick Clegg it drove me
0:31:25 > 0:31:30bonkers. I thought the real collusion is between the British
0:31:30 > 0:31:35elite and Brussels.And now you are there.But I am not a colluder.
0:31:35 > 0:31:41Believe me. If you believe, as I believe, and all polling research
0:31:41 > 0:31:45backs up, that immigration was a key driver of the Brexit result, the
0:31:45 > 0:31:49disappointing thing is that clearly nobody from the British Government
0:31:49 > 0:31:53has explained that to him and progress has been made on that
0:31:53 > 0:32:00whatsoever.That is your view, isn't it? You are a sort of self-appointed
0:32:00 > 0:32:03representative of the 17.4 million Brexit voters. The Government say
0:32:03 > 0:32:07they respect the result of the referendum. Labour say they respect
0:32:07 > 0:32:12the result of the referendum. What makes you the expect when Ukip did
0:32:12 > 0:32:16rather badly in the election to know what was in the mind of all those
0:32:16 > 0:32:20Brexit voters?There is something called political science, there is
0:32:20 > 0:32:23something called polling, all of which shows you before and during
0:32:23 > 0:32:32the referendum that one of the key drivers was getting back control of
0:32:32 > 0:32:41our borders. When I said I would represent the view it was justified.
0:32:41 > 0:32:45When I saw the income prewhention in his face this was a key issue. I
0:32:45 > 0:32:51don't doubt Mrs May will take us out of the European Union. But this big,
0:32:51 > 0:32:55key issue that everybody finds too awkward to discuss. They would
0:32:55 > 0:33:00rather brush it under the carpet it is out there in the country. People
0:33:00 > 0:33:08do care about it. Is it any wonder we have an NHS crisis when we have
0:33:08 > 0:33:14population growing by 500,000 a year. Wherever we are, immigration
0:33:14 > 0:33:20has not yet been discussed.What do you say in response? Nigel Farage
0:33:20 > 0:33:25says he knows what the main driver was behind the 17.4 million who
0:33:25 > 0:33:29voted for Brexit?I think immigration was a portion of it. In
0:33:29 > 0:33:34my constituency it came up. I think it is simplistic to say that was the
0:33:34 > 0:33:41only thing. But there were other issues. There is sovereignty. Nigel
0:33:41 > 0:33:46mentioned it might be a good idea to make our own laws. There was a sense
0:33:46 > 0:33:50that our political culture, our institutions were things that people
0:33:50 > 0:33:55valued and didn't want to be part of a United States of Europe, which is
0:33:55 > 0:34:07where people think the UK is heading.AreI know Nigel. I think
0:34:07 > 0:34:14he's a very persuasive guy. Good luck to him.Will Nigel Farage help
0:34:14 > 0:34:17the negotiations from the British point of view?Michel Barnier knows
0:34:17 > 0:34:20who the Government is and he's obviously keeping his door open to
0:34:20 > 0:34:24allow others to speak to him. You know, he will understand fully what
0:34:24 > 0:34:29the position is at the moment. He can see quite clearly we are not
0:34:29 > 0:34:33actually making very good progress at the moment. We have rather a
0:34:33 > 0:34:41last-minute deal botched together in December. It wasn't clear on the
0:34:41 > 0:34:44Ireland situation, not on EU nations or the amount of money that will be,
0:34:44 > 0:34:50it will be a last amount of money. The EU wouldn't have said they would
0:34:50 > 0:34:55move on - but there are things which are unresolved. That is true. Nigel
0:34:55 > 0:34:59Farage, you had questions which were tweeted to your e-mail to give to
0:34:59 > 0:35:04Michel Barnier. They were not all from leave supporters were they?No,
0:35:04 > 0:35:08a broad cross section of people asking questions. The first one I
0:35:08 > 0:35:11asked was one of the questions sent in. Did he understand the reasons
0:35:11 > 0:35:15for leaving? The most interesting part was phase two. I think in phase
0:35:15 > 0:35:21one we have given too much money, too much jurisdiction to the ECJ,
0:35:21 > 0:35:25but let's look ahead to 2018. What is really interesting is that
0:35:25 > 0:35:30Barnier... Oh, yes, of course we are very happy to have a trade deal on
0:35:30 > 0:35:34goods, you know on the basis of Japan or on the basis of Canada.
0:35:34 > 0:35:40Well, of course they sell us 80 billion Euro-s worth of chocolate,
0:35:40 > 0:35:47cars and wine every year, more than we sell them. When I mentioned
0:35:47 > 0:35:51services and financial services, as being part of this package, I saw
0:35:51 > 0:35:55his whole body language change. He stiffened up and said, no, that
0:35:55 > 0:36:01simply can't be. Now, if we are going to enter a period of
0:36:01 > 0:36:06negotiations where given the amount we've conceded in phase one, if he
0:36:06 > 0:36:10is not prepared to make some concessions on that, then I think
0:36:10 > 0:36:14the big change in the Brexit debate which will come in 2018 is you will
0:36:14 > 0:36:18start to see very big voices in business say, let's not waste years
0:36:18 > 0:36:24and years on this. Let's actually move to WTO rules and do so quickly.
0:36:24 > 0:36:27Was no deal part of your discussion with Michel Barnier?Yes,
0:36:27 > 0:36:31absolutely.What did he say? How much did that dominate your
0:36:31 > 0:36:36conversation?Well, you know, he said it would have bad consequences
0:36:36 > 0:36:41for both of us. I said in the short-term that is absolutely right,
0:36:41 > 0:36:44but actually it would hurt Europe far more than it would hurt us. Not
0:36:44 > 0:36:51only do they sell us more goods than we sell them. The truth is our
0:36:51 > 0:36:54financial services we are the investment bankers for the whole of
0:36:54 > 0:36:59the rest of Europe. I would rather somebody who spent 20 years in
0:36:59 > 0:37:02business before getting involved in politics, I would rather for the
0:37:02 > 0:37:05short-term we reach the sensible compromise deal. The British
0:37:05 > 0:37:09Government has given a hell of a lot already. It is now time for Barnier
0:37:09 > 0:37:17to give something. He wasn't in that mood this morning.Finally, on Ukip,
0:37:17 > 0:37:21a Ukip councillor has called on Henry Bolton to resign because of
0:37:21 > 0:37:28things in his private life. What say you?I say a man who passed out as
0:37:28 > 0:37:32top cadet in Sandhurst, won a bravery reward in the police, did
0:37:32 > 0:37:37outstanding things in Afghanistan. Got an OBE for services to
0:37:37 > 0:37:40international security, none would have been talked about or written
0:37:40 > 0:37:44about. He has a fling with a 25-year-old and it is front-page of
0:37:44 > 0:37:48some of the Sunday newspapers. While short-term it may be uncomfortable
0:37:48 > 0:37:53for him, the truth is people know now his name.Thank you for that,
0:37:53 > 0:37:58Nigel Farage, after his meeting with Michel Barnier. For more reporting,
0:37:58 > 0:38:07check out the BBC News website. The Prime Minister has
0:38:07 > 0:38:09The Prime Minister had to defend the Government's handling
0:38:09 > 0:38:10the Government's handling
0:38:10 > 0:38:12of the NHS yesterday, after the unprecedented call
0:38:12 > 0:38:14in England for a month's worth of non-urgent operations
0:38:14 > 0:38:16and appointments to be postponed.
0:38:16 > 0:38:18As stories of patients enduring long waits in ambulances
0:38:18 > 0:38:21and on trolleys in A&E mount, is it time to look at
0:38:21 > 0:38:23a radically different way of running our health service?
0:38:23 > 0:38:24Here's Kate Andrews from the Institute
0:38:24 > 0:38:26of Economic Affairs, with her soapbox.
0:38:26 > 0:38:32All nonurgent operations and outpatient appointments
0:38:32 > 0:38:35in England are put on hold because of mounting
0:38:35 > 0:38:38pressure on the NHS.
0:38:38 > 0:38:41I want to apologise for the fact we have had regrettably to postpone
0:38:41 > 0:38:44the number of operations.
0:38:44 > 0:38:46I know it's frustrating, I know it's disappointing
0:38:46 > 0:38:49for people and I apologise.
0:38:49 > 0:38:53The philosophy of the National Health Service is that good
0:38:53 > 0:38:56healthcare should be accessible to all regardless of wealth,
0:38:56 > 0:38:58but it's not available this month.
0:38:58 > 0:39:0050,000 appointments have been cut from the schedule and -
0:39:00 > 0:39:03more accurately put - 50,000 patients, many
0:39:03 > 0:39:06of whom are waiting in pain, are being forced to wait even longer
0:39:06 > 0:39:08for their hip replacements and knee surgeries.
0:39:08 > 0:39:11All because the NHS is ill-equipped to deal with winter flu.
0:39:11 > 0:39:21If this isn't the definition of system failure, what is?
0:39:22 > 0:39:27We all know deep down that hard truths are being buried
0:39:27 > 0:39:30to protect the sacred cow, but if doctors are now speaking out
0:39:30 > 0:39:32about the Third World conditions in the NHS,
0:39:32 > 0:39:34isn't it time that politicians and commentators follow suit?
0:39:34 > 0:39:38The NHS ranks in the bottom third of international comparisons
0:39:38 > 0:39:41for health system performance.
0:39:41 > 0:39:44It rates far below the social health insurance systems of Europe
0:39:44 > 0:39:46and other systems further abroad, which outperform the UK on crucial
0:39:46 > 0:39:48aspects of health care, like A&E waiting times
0:39:48 > 0:39:53and cancer treatments.
0:39:53 > 0:39:56If the UK were to consider a different approach to health care,
0:39:56 > 0:39:59there would be no need to compromise on the core philosophy that care
0:39:59 > 0:40:00should be available for all.
0:40:00 > 0:40:03Contrary to popular belief, most of the developed world offers
0:40:03 > 0:40:06universal access to health care.
0:40:06 > 0:40:09From Switzerland to Hong Kong, these systems provide coverage
0:40:09 > 0:40:13for everyone and they aren't toppled over by flu outbreaks.
0:40:13 > 0:40:16No one outside the UK envies the NHS.
0:40:16 > 0:40:21Many people, including the Health Secretary this week,
0:40:21 > 0:40:23cite the Commonwealth Fund study, a rare report that ranks
0:40:23 > 0:40:27the NHS best overall, to suggest that they do.
0:40:27 > 0:40:30But when you break it down and look at the health outcome
0:40:30 > 0:40:33section of the study, the NHS plummets from the top
0:40:33 > 0:40:35of the chart to tenth out of 11.
0:40:35 > 0:40:39The Guardian summed the study up perfectly when the 2014
0:40:39 > 0:40:41version was released, noting that the only serious black
0:40:41 > 0:40:45mark against the NHS was a poor record on keeping people alive.
0:40:45 > 0:40:47You can keep the three letters if you wish but it's time
0:40:47 > 0:40:50for a radical change to create a better patient-centric system.
0:40:50 > 0:40:57And Kate Andrews joins us now.
0:40:57 > 0:41:02You set out some of the problems. What should the solution be?It is a
0:41:02 > 0:41:05combination. Funding should be talked about but that is a secondary
0:41:05 > 0:41:11issue for me. It was tweeted in an article over the weekend from 2000.
0:41:11 > 0:41:14It was highlighting all the same problems with the NHS. It was
0:41:14 > 0:41:19reported in the Telegraph that we didn't have enough beds, that the
0:41:19 > 0:41:24winter crisis was coming. We had to get people from overseas to take up
0:41:24 > 0:41:27vacancies in the NHS. We are dealing this 18 years later. This highlights
0:41:27 > 0:41:31that on the left everybody says we need more money. Well, that might be
0:41:31 > 0:41:37part of the solution.Not just on the left.A lot of people do. A lot
0:41:37 > 0:41:40of people are saying this Government has underfunded the NHS. I reject
0:41:40 > 0:41:44that. If you look at Australia and Israel, they are actually putting
0:41:44 > 0:41:48less money into their health care systems and getting better patient
0:41:48 > 0:41:53outcomes. On the right, often you have a lot of people say we have too
0:41:53 > 0:41:57many immigrants in this country using up resources. Like 2000, like
0:41:57 > 0:42:01now, you are more likely to be treated by an immigrant rather than
0:42:01 > 0:42:05to have them holding up the queue. For me, it is about looking to
0:42:05 > 0:42:09Europe, looking at other systems getting this right. Not the US, but
0:42:09 > 0:42:15others which are fit for 2018.So a social insurance scheme, where
0:42:15 > 0:42:19people pay in at different levels as they do in Germany and then you get
0:42:19 > 0:42:22the health service at different levels?I think that would be a
0:42:22 > 0:42:26great system to look at. It is not just that people are paying out of
0:42:26 > 0:42:30their own pockets, the Government ensures everyone has access or they
0:42:30 > 0:42:36will top you up or give you credit to make sure you can afford it.This
0:42:36 > 0:42:40is changing the core fundamental principal at the heart of the health
0:42:40 > 0:42:46service, that it is point at the point of -- that it is free at the
0:42:46 > 0:42:52point of delivery. Are you able to reconsider that?Absolutely not. The
0:42:52 > 0:42:56NHS will celebrate its 70th birthday this year. There is full support
0:42:56 > 0:43:00among the public for the NHS. If you ask in a poll what would they like
0:43:00 > 0:43:03to see their money spent on, they put NHS first. They understand that
0:43:03 > 0:43:08any of us can be hit by a very serious illness and when the NHS is
0:43:08 > 0:43:11given proper resources it has standards second to none in the
0:43:11 > 0:43:16world.How much are you prepared to put into it?We said very, very
0:43:16 > 0:43:21clearly in our manifesto for the election this year that we would put
0:43:21 > 0:43:24in an additional £37 billion over the next five years in. We need that
0:43:24 > 0:43:29level of funding. We need to ensure we can deliver. If I may make the
0:43:29 > 0:43:34point about 2000, we did an enormous amount between 1997-2010 to bring
0:43:34 > 0:43:38down waiting lists, to fund the NHS better than it has been in the last
0:43:38 > 0:43:41seven years that the squeeze on funding has gone back in the other
0:43:41 > 0:43:46direction.Let's talk about the fact that it is politically still
0:43:46 > 0:43:50unpalatable to talk about getting rid or getting rid of that principal
0:43:50 > 0:43:58of it being free at the point of delivery.The UK came up with the
0:43:58 > 0:44:02principal of universal access, free at the point of use. No-one is
0:44:02 > 0:44:05abandoning that. Every other country in the world looked at that, apart
0:44:05 > 0:44:08from the United States. It is a great principal, be but they
0:44:08 > 0:44:12implement it in a terrible way. That is why the NHS is not replicated
0:44:12 > 0:44:16anywhere else in the world. They have different principals. We are
0:44:16 > 0:44:19not talking about abandoning it. I appreciate that point. My question
0:44:19 > 0:44:25to you would be, if you didn't want to put more money into the NHS,
0:44:25 > 0:44:30where is -- if you did want to put more money into the NHS where is it
0:44:30 > 0:44:35coming from? What will we cut? What will we prioritise to put more money
0:44:35 > 0:44:39into the NHS?We funded everything we said we would in our manifesto.
0:44:39 > 0:44:44We are talking about making sure... That manifesto borrowed a lot of
0:44:44 > 0:44:50money.Gaping holes.We have fundleded funded all the promises we
0:44:50 > 0:44:55have made. Cutting corporation cut have put holes in this Government's
0:44:55 > 0:44:59budget. The fact of the matter is people want the NHS funded. We said
0:44:59 > 0:45:05we would not get rid of that 50% tax rate for the top taxpayers. We said
0:45:05 > 0:45:08we will not impose further tax burdens on the rest of the
0:45:08 > 0:45:12population. We are very clear we can fund it from changes that we would
0:45:12 > 0:45:17make in the top taxation and corporation.And there is a crisis
0:45:17 > 0:45:23in the NHS that goes beyond previous crisis. Nai makes the point that
0:45:23 > 0:45:27satisfaction in the NHS was high when Labour led office and into a
0:45:27 > 0:45:32few years into the coalition. Now, on your watch you are presiding over
0:45:32 > 0:45:36a crisis in which nonurgent operations have been cancelled for a
0:45:36 > 0:45:42month. Theresa May says the NHS is better prepared because they have
0:45:42 > 0:45:45cancelled the operations ahead of time. There hasn't been such a
0:45:45 > 0:45:49crisis and that is on a Conservative Government's watch.
0:45:54 > 0:45:58I completely disagree. You made an assertion about this being an
0:45:58 > 0:46:00unprecedented crisis and I'm rejecting that because ever since
0:46:00 > 0:46:05I've been in politics and before that, the NHS has always been centre
0:46:05 > 0:46:09of the political debate and people have said there is a big problem,
0:46:09 > 0:46:13and ongoing problems with funding. That's a much more mature way of
0:46:13 > 0:46:18looking at it than simply saying this is the worst crisis we have
0:46:18 > 0:46:25ever had.I'm not saying it. NHS' England Professor said it was the
0:46:25 > 0:46:33worst he'd seen since the 1990s. Professor Susan Mason has on patient
0:46:33 > 0:46:39safety is being compromised. Then we have anecdotal evidence that goes
0:46:39 > 0:46:43beyond previous winters, talking about people waiting in corridors,
0:46:43 > 0:46:49on trolleys, not even being able to be taken out of ambulances. Theresa
0:46:49 > 0:46:52May would not have apologised if she didn't think it was a crisis.We
0:46:52 > 0:46:56have a problem because we have lots of demand and smaller resources,
0:46:56 > 0:47:00there's a pressure on resources, we know that, we are running a deficit
0:47:00 > 0:47:05as we have done for 17 years. We have got to try to balance the books
0:47:05 > 0:47:13and stabilise the economy. I think the Labour route would be
0:47:13 > 0:47:16disastrous. That's not going to help the NHS. Similarly what Kate was
0:47:16 > 0:47:20saying about insurance and other models, that's interesting, that is
0:47:20 > 0:47:24part of the debate. I was in a government with people like Nick
0:47:24 > 0:47:28Clegg and others who had written books about this. They wrote the
0:47:28 > 0:47:32orange book 12 years ago suggesting we need to look at bits of
0:47:32 > 0:47:37insurance. I'm totally committed as Nia is to an NHS free at the point
0:47:37 > 0:47:41of delivery but also open-minded enough to look at other countries.
0:47:41 > 0:47:48So you would look at the ideas of social insurance?The idea we have a
0:47:48 > 0:47:55long -- monopoly is an arrogant idea.It has been suggested people
0:47:55 > 0:48:01over 40 should pay more tax to fund the NHS, is that something you would
0:48:01 > 0:48:07consider?No, I don't see why people over 40...Perhaps only people over
0:48:07 > 0:48:1240 who could afford it.There are lots of people over 40 who are not
0:48:12 > 0:48:18earning lots of money. It's not as if there is a scale. There are rich
0:48:18 > 0:48:2435-year-olds.So you reject that suggestion. You talk to politicians
0:48:24 > 0:48:36about this regularly off the camera, is there more...I'm thrilled to
0:48:36 > 0:48:42hear Kwasi Kwarteng say he would look at other ideas because many are
0:48:42 > 0:48:46burying their heads in the sand is saying the NHS is the envy of the
0:48:46 > 0:48:55world. So I appreciate it so much.I think the problem is, I'm in between
0:48:55 > 0:49:00both of you. It is easy to run down the NHS, it is a huge success but
0:49:00 > 0:49:06what I am open to, you know, I write and edit books, and I'm interested
0:49:06 > 0:49:10in debate, that is important.We will have to leave it there, but
0:49:10 > 0:49:19thank you. 2008 team will be a hectic year when it comes to
0:49:19 > 0:49:23elections, with Vladimir Putin running to yet another term as
0:49:23 > 0:49:26Russian president, UK local elections, and the US mid-term is
0:49:26 > 0:49:42providing a litmus test for Donald Trump's presidency.
0:49:43 > 0:49:49Ali has taken a look for us.Experts reckon it is likely to end up in
0:49:49 > 0:49:52another coalition government. A couple of weeks after that on the
0:49:52 > 0:49:5718th of March all eyes will be on Russia. Vladimir Putin wants another
0:49:57 > 0:50:00term as president and let's be honest he is so popular it will
0:50:00 > 0:50:08probably be handed to him a bit like this cute puppy. In fact he has been
0:50:08 > 0:50:13in power so long that if he wins he will be the longest serving leader
0:50:13 > 0:50:19since Stalin. The selection leader has been formally banned from
0:50:19 > 0:50:24standing because of embezzlement, but if something closer to your home
0:50:24 > 0:50:31is your cup of tea. On May the 3rd 151 councils with about 4400 seats
0:50:31 > 0:50:36are up for grabs including every council seat in London, where Labour
0:50:36 > 0:50:42have big plans, as well as five mayoral elections in the capital.
0:50:42 > 0:50:47November the 6th could be a day of fire and fury in the US as President
0:50:47 > 0:50:52Trump faces his first nationwide test when all 435 seats in the House
0:50:52 > 0:50:56of Representatives and 33 of the 100 seats in the Senate will be
0:50:56 > 0:51:01contested. Plenty of critics point to the victory of Democrats Doug
0:51:01 > 0:51:08Jones over the Republican Roy Moore as a sign of things to come. But he
0:51:08 > 0:51:13had, shall we say, some unique flaws so as ever it is difficult to
0:51:13 > 0:51:18predict the outcome of this US poll. Before that weren't enough, hungry's
0:51:18 > 0:51:24victor Orban will seek a third term in April, while voters go to the
0:51:24 > 0:51:30poll in Iraq in May and some time in the spring in Egypt.I'm exhausted
0:51:30 > 0:51:36already, and we have Tim Marshall with us in the studio so let's talk
0:51:36 > 0:51:40about the Italian election on the 4th of March. The country is in the
0:51:40 > 0:51:47midst of domestic problems and has been for some time.Several decades!
0:51:47 > 0:51:53Post-war, some might say. What are we expecting?I think the drift to
0:51:53 > 0:52:02the extremes will continue right across Europe. Mr Orban will get in
0:52:02 > 0:52:05in Hungary. In Italy you usually think it doesn't matter who wins the
0:52:05 > 0:52:13election because next year there is usually a one. This time I think it
0:52:13 > 0:52:18is not an extremist movement but not a centrist movement. I think the
0:52:18 > 0:52:22problem is Italy is not holding together. The Northern league part
0:52:22 > 0:52:25of it has already said it might campaign on getting out of the
0:52:25 > 0:52:32European Union so I'm going to watch Italy to see how deep are the
0:52:32 > 0:52:38fissures pulling Italy apart. Who will win that election, I can tell
0:52:38 > 0:52:43you who will win lots of elections but not that one.So do you see
0:52:43 > 0:52:55Italy as the prism through which we should see Europe as well?Yes, but
0:52:55 > 0:52:59the far right will continue to grow. I constantly argue against this
0:52:59 > 0:53:05narrative that in EU elections they keep putting back the far right, I
0:53:05 > 0:53:13think it's the other way round. Marine Le Pen increased her vote,
0:53:13 > 0:53:18the Dutch, and Germany AFG came in with dozens. That will be replicated
0:53:18 > 0:53:28this year again, the far right has not peaked.And briefly on Germany,
0:53:28 > 0:53:32Angela Merkel is still struggling to form a government, isn't that
0:53:32 > 0:53:37critically important?Yes, again they still haven't got a coalition
0:53:37 > 0:53:42government. She's deep in negotiations now with social
0:53:42 > 0:53:46Democrats. If they can't get the coalition together probably this
0:53:46 > 0:53:51week, firstly she is probably finished, and secondly they will
0:53:51 > 0:54:00have new elections. Without the Mutti as they call her, Germany will
0:54:00 > 0:54:05start to drift. Again, the EU, we still see the splintering. If they
0:54:05 > 0:54:10can get the coalition together, you will see Mrs Merkel give in on some
0:54:10 > 0:54:14of the immigration policies, and the open door policy is finished in
0:54:14 > 0:54:18Germany, which is also part of the drift to the right. She will have to
0:54:18 > 0:54:22compromise with the right and close down immigration.What about local
0:54:22 > 0:54:27elections here?I have absolutely no idea, it's a foreign country to
0:54:27 > 0:54:37meet!What can we expect from them? What should we expect? It
0:54:37 > 0:54:41meet!What can we expect from them? What should we expect? It.In London
0:54:41 > 0:54:46all the boroughs will be up for contest so it will be a very mixed
0:54:46 > 0:54:51picture. I think the Government perhaps could do well but mid-term
0:54:51 > 0:54:53elections notoriously are difficult for governments, we know that.And
0:54:53 > 0:54:57you would have to improve at local election level if you're going to be
0:54:57 > 0:55:02seen as the opposition preparing for the next government.I think people
0:55:02 > 0:55:05are deeply unhappy with many things this Conservative government are
0:55:05 > 0:55:10doing, and in particular delivery of local services. They can see social
0:55:10 > 0:55:15care budgets being slashed, school budgets, health service, and simple
0:55:15 > 0:55:18things like collecting rubbish. They can see the effects of austerity
0:55:18 > 0:55:21over seven years now and I think that will have a significant impact
0:55:21 > 0:55:27on the way people vote in the local elections this spring.You are the
0:55:27 > 0:55:31foreign affairs analyst, not the local elections analyst. Let's have
0:55:31 > 0:55:35a look at Donald Trump in enough trouble of his own making to some
0:55:35 > 0:55:39extent but the midterms are considered a litmus test. Will they
0:55:39 > 0:55:47be or are we still looking at the core support for Donald Trump
0:55:47 > 0:55:55remaining?The latter, that's a guess. In the Russian election,
0:55:55 > 0:56:00Vladimir Putin will win. I suspect the Republicans will hang on to both
0:56:00 > 0:56:04houses. That's extremely important because if the Democrats don't win
0:56:04 > 0:56:08back the Senate, and that's going to be close, if they don't have control
0:56:08 > 0:56:12of it they cannot move ahead with impeachment. I've always argued I
0:56:12 > 0:56:16don't think he's going to be impeached, I've never seen any solid
0:56:16 > 0:56:20evidence against him. I've said this before to you that we still look at
0:56:20 > 0:56:29him through the prism of our distaste, and that's not a good
0:56:29 > 0:56:33template. Unemployment down, tax reforms May kick in and may have
0:56:33 > 0:56:42more money. The Senate and the house are different beasts to Trump. I
0:56:42 > 0:56:47accept they flipped Alabama...Was that not a big signal?It was but
0:56:47 > 0:56:51look at the candidate the Democrat was up against, the chap on the
0:56:51 > 0:56:56horse and they rode him out of town. Alabama is not up this year but if
0:56:56 > 0:57:00it was it would be reversed back to the Republicans. The Republicans are
0:57:00 > 0:57:04only defending eight seats in the autumn, the Democrats are defending
0:57:04 > 0:57:0924th. I think they will hang on and I think Mr Trump, if you look at it
0:57:09 > 0:57:13from inside America, he's not doing anywhere near as badly as we think
0:57:13 > 0:57:22he is.All right, let's go to Norman Smith in Downing Street. Can you
0:57:22 > 0:57:28give us any update?Three facts! Fact one is me know Patrick
0:57:28 > 0:57:33McLoughlin has now left government, not a huge shock given the Tory
0:57:33 > 0:57:38election woes and the fact he's been on the Government front bench since
0:57:38 > 0:57:42Mrs Thatcher. Fact two Brandon Lewis is the new party chairman, the
0:57:42 > 0:57:46Immigration Minister steps into the party chairman role. And I suppose
0:57:46 > 0:57:51the hope will be he will grab the party machine by the lapels and give
0:57:51 > 0:57:55it a good shake up because it was clearly found wanting at the general
0:57:55 > 0:58:00election campaign and we are expecting a lot of new people to be
0:58:00 > 0:58:04brought into party headquarters to try and match Jeremy Corbyn when it
0:58:04 > 0:58:11comes to recruiting new members. Fact he is the Northern Ireland
0:58:11 > 0:58:17Secretary is standing down on health grounds and he has spoken about
0:58:17 > 0:58:26having to have surgery for a lesion on his right lung, there will be the
0:58:26 > 0:58:28recuperation period and he thinks you will need to run with the energy
0:58:28 > 0:58:34and time to take on this sensitive post.And briefly, we are expecting
0:58:34 > 0:58:39more tomorrow, aren't we?We are going to get a much bigger shake-up
0:58:39 > 0:58:43of the middle ranks tomorrow and that's when we are expecting new,
0:58:43 > 0:58:48younger female MPs from ethnic minorities to be brought on board.
0:58:48 > 0:58:53Norman, thank you. I hope you are not standing there the whole day but
0:58:53 > 0:59:02you probably will be. Thanks to all of our guests. The one o'clock news
0:59:03 > 0:59:06Ideas for living well in the new year - no fad diets...