0:00:38 > 0:00:42Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.
0:00:42 > 0:00:46David Davis is in Brussels where an agreement between Britain
0:00:46 > 0:00:48and the EU over the transition period after Brexit looks
0:00:48 > 0:00:49close to being struck.
0:00:49 > 0:00:53We'll bring you all the latest.
0:00:53 > 0:00:56The EU has offered "unqualified solidarity" with the UK
0:00:56 > 0:00:58as the investigation into the poisoning of
0:00:58 > 0:01:03ex-Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter goes on.
0:01:03 > 0:01:06Is the Government serving up cuts to free school meal
0:01:06 > 0:01:07entitlement for some children, or is Labour
0:01:07 > 0:01:08over-egging the pudding?
0:01:08 > 0:01:11We'll try to find out.
0:01:11 > 0:01:14Should shock collars for dogs in England like Bella
0:01:14 > 0:01:16and Abbie be banned?
0:01:16 > 0:01:24We'll be debating this charged political issue.
0:01:24 > 0:01:29I think if I didn't have it two years ago I wouldn't be here right
0:01:29 > 0:01:33now. You can't put a price on it.
0:01:33 > 0:01:35And MPs debate whether people with cystic fibrosis should
0:01:35 > 0:01:41receive a life-changing, but very expensive, drug on the NHS.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56All that in the next hour and with us for the whole
0:01:56 > 0:01:58of the programme today, it's the shadow foreign office
0:01:58 > 0:02:00minister Helen Goodman and the Conservative MP Neil O'Brien.
0:02:00 > 0:02:02Welcome to the show both of you.
0:02:02 > 0:02:04First today - a deal between Britain and the EU
0:02:04 > 0:02:06on the transition deal, that's the period of two
0:02:06 > 0:02:08years after Brexit - looks to have been reached.
0:02:08 > 0:02:11David Davis is in Brussels where he's been meeting
0:02:11 > 0:02:13with the EU's negotiator Michel Barnier, we'll hear that
0:02:13 > 0:02:16in a moment, it's potentially a big moment in the Brexit process.
0:02:16 > 0:02:18It means there's an agreed set of rules to smoothe the way
0:02:18 > 0:02:24from our current relationship to our new relationship with the EU.
0:02:24 > 0:02:26The EU wants this period, which the British government calls
0:02:26 > 0:02:29the implementation period, to last until the end of December
0:02:29 > 0:02:322020, so we're all looking forward to finding out where each side
0:02:32 > 0:02:33has given way.
0:02:33 > 0:02:41Here's Michel Barnier.
0:02:42 > 0:02:46TRANSLATION:And what we are presenting to you today with David
0:02:46 > 0:02:53is a legal texts, a joint legal text, which constitutes in my mind a
0:02:53 > 0:02:59decisive step because we were able this morning to agree that after all
0:02:59 > 0:03:04those days and nights of hard work on a large part of what will make up
0:03:04 > 0:03:08an international agreement for the ordered withdrawal of the United
0:03:08 > 0:03:13Kingdom.
0:03:13 > 0:03:18And we're also joined by Bernard Jenkin, the Conservative MP. I want
0:03:18 > 0:03:22to ask my two guests hear what do you say to the announcement by
0:03:22 > 0:03:26Michel Barnier that there has been a legal text agreed on the withdrawal
0:03:26 > 0:03:30agreement and there sounds like some sort of agreement has been made on
0:03:30 > 0:03:34the transition?It is ready great news because it is another milestone
0:03:34 > 0:03:38on the way to delivering Brexit in a smooth, orderly way, which is a big
0:03:38 > 0:03:43prize because it means we'll get back control of our laws, borders
0:03:43 > 0:03:49and money so this is a big
0:03:54 > 0:03:55and money so this is a big step forward it is what most of this
0:03:55 > 0:03:58country now want.People voted for Brexit, we need to get on with it
0:03:58 > 0:04:01and do it in a sensible and orderly way and this is another milestone.
0:04:01 > 0:04:06Bernard Jenkin, as we understand it the agreement has been done but
0:04:06 > 0:04:10everything stays the same during the transition period, that two-year
0:04:10 > 0:04:16period, but we will not have a seat at the table. In other words, we
0:04:16 > 0:04:21will be a rule take and not a rule giver. I happy with that?It'll be
0:04:21 > 0:04:26in the small print which we haven't had a look at yet. Michel Barnier
0:04:26 > 0:04:31has presented the pages of text on a massive slide behind him saying that
0:04:31 > 0:04:35all the bits coloured in yellow are the bits where the drafting is
0:04:35 > 0:04:39subject to alteration so we don't have a finished text and there are
0:04:39 > 0:04:43some bits that are in green which seem to be on my television
0:04:43 > 0:04:48indecipherable from the bits in yellow.But can you accept the fact
0:04:48 > 0:04:51that Britain won't have a seat at the table when decisions are being
0:04:51 > 0:04:56made during the transition period? There is going to have to be some
0:04:56 > 0:05:01pretty significant safeguards that no country would submit itself is
0:05:01 > 0:05:04completely to a foreign jurisdiction, which is what the EU
0:05:04 > 0:05:08becomes after we have left, and just accept new laws and court rulings.
0:05:08 > 0:05:12There will have to be some mediation arrangement, even if by our own
0:05:12 > 0:05:15parliament because when you are no longer represented on the court,
0:05:15 > 0:05:21when you are not sitting at the table to make the new laws, how can
0:05:21 > 0:05:24we possibly make ourselves a prisoner of this arrangement? That
0:05:24 > 0:05:29would not be acceptable. There are other issues, like we are going to
0:05:29 > 0:05:36be bound by the doctrine of sincere integration, but we want to
0:05:36 > 0:05:44negotiate our own trade deals.Do you see this as success? A moment at
0:05:44 > 0:05:48which the government can claim that it has got agreement on this
0:05:48 > 0:05:52implementation period?I hope so because we were calling for a
0:05:52 > 0:05:56transitional agreement with access to the single market and the customs
0:05:56 > 0:05:59union a year ago and the government made some demands which couldn't be
0:05:59 > 0:06:04met and now they've had to accept that wasn't negotiable, and we
0:06:04 > 0:06:07really do need this smooth transition because the amount of
0:06:07 > 0:06:11uncertainty and chaos which has been caused for industry and business has
0:06:11 > 0:06:15ready been terrible. We don't want to see a repeat of this pattern
0:06:15 > 0:06:18where the government requests things it cannot achieve. We need a better
0:06:18 > 0:06:27approach.Right, I'm going to talk to if political correspondent for TV
0:06:27 > 0:06:31island but first of all will you be happy to support a deal when it
0:06:31 > 0:06:36comes to parliament later this year if the issue of Ireland and Northern
0:06:36 > 0:06:40Ireland hasn't been completely resolved or if there is some
0:06:40 > 0:06:44infrastructure at the border?We think getting the Northern Ireland
0:06:44 > 0:06:50border sorted on the basis of a soft border is absolutely essential to a
0:06:50 > 0:06:54satisfactory deal.We've just heard from Michel Barnier on the border
0:06:54 > 0:06:59issue that both sides, the UK and the EU, are committed to all part of
0:06:59 > 0:07:03what was agreed in December. Briefly, to summarise, what was
0:07:03 > 0:07:08agreed in that draft text was either there was going to be a full free
0:07:08 > 0:07:13trade agreement that would take in the issue of the board or that's
0:07:13 > 0:07:16technology would provide the solution, which is what the
0:07:16 > 0:07:20government has been suggesting, but has been rejected so far by certain
0:07:20 > 0:07:25parties on EU side, or the third backstop issue which is that
0:07:25 > 0:07:29Northern Ireland would remain aligned to the EU, which is the
0:07:29 > 0:07:34least favoured option for most sides, certainly in the UK. Gavin
0:07:34 > 0:07:39Reilly, do you think this is a problem that the issue of the border
0:07:39 > 0:07:42hasn't yet been resolved, even though this implementation period
0:07:42 > 0:07:46has been agreed?It is a point of anxiety that the Irish government is
0:07:46 > 0:07:52still waiting to find a very workable solution about how exactly
0:07:52 > 0:07:56such technological solutions might work. The Irish government has been
0:07:56 > 0:08:01transparent and upfront and says its best possible solution is a very
0:08:01 > 0:08:04all-encompassing free-trade agreement between EU and the UK
0:08:04 > 0:08:09which would render the border? Is at it because they would be part of the
0:08:09 > 0:08:17same trading block. If that isn't going to be any prospect of the UK
0:08:17 > 0:08:19coming forward with technological solutions, at least island considers
0:08:19 > 0:08:28it feasible. The real question for the Irish government is whether the
0:08:28 > 0:08:31UK government is prepared to honour the backstop agreement you
0:08:31 > 0:08:36mentioned, where Northern Ireland would remain part of the European
0:08:36 > 0:08:40single trading area, even if it means it become segmented from the
0:08:40 > 0:08:44rest of the UK. The Irish government says it doesn't want to do it and
0:08:44 > 0:08:49the Taoiseach has been at pains to article at this point because it is
0:08:49 > 0:08:54perceived this is some sort of an agenda to create a united Ireland by
0:08:54 > 0:08:57stealth, to fragment the UK and have Northern Ireland broken away from
0:08:57 > 0:09:02the rest of mainland Britain. The Irish government says it isn't its
0:09:02 > 0:09:05intention at all but it wants to see some commitment that it is prepared
0:09:05 > 0:09:11to put its money where its mouth is, the UK government. And that is
0:09:11 > 0:09:15something the UK is prepared to honour. It is interesting in the
0:09:15 > 0:09:19agreement Michel Barnier posted at text is highlighted yellow which
0:09:19 > 0:09:23means that although the final legal technicalities are not agreed, they
0:09:23 > 0:09:27are agreed in principle. Two weeks ago Theresa May suggested that
0:09:27 > 0:09:35agreement was something no British Prime Minister could stand over.
0:09:35 > 0:09:39Bernard Jenkins, we've heard from Michel Barnier on the UK island
0:09:39 > 0:09:43border, we have agreed the backstop solution must form part of the legal
0:09:43 > 0:09:48text of the withdrawal agreement. It will apply unless and until another
0:09:48 > 0:09:51solution is found. Is that acceptable to you the UK government
0:09:51 > 0:09:55has signed up to the idea that unless another solution is found
0:09:55 > 0:10:00Northern Ireland will remain aligned to EU rules?I'd want to look at the
0:10:00 > 0:10:05small print.Well, this is what Barnier has said.They've just
0:10:05 > 0:10:11published a very long document annual quoting a very small part of
0:10:11 > 0:10:16it. Until I've read it...I'm asking for your reaction to what is pretty
0:10:16 > 0:10:20clear they've agreed the backstop solution. Are you happy with that?
0:10:20 > 0:10:25There will be no infrastructure at the border on nest that you put it
0:10:25 > 0:10:30there. If the EU is stupid enough and wants to breach the terms of the
0:10:30 > 0:10:34Northern Ireland peace agreement, the Belfast Agreement, wants to put
0:10:34 > 0:10:37up obstacles and be obstructive, then they are going to go ahead and
0:10:37 > 0:10:42do that but actually I think they will not.What do you say to that?
0:10:42 > 0:10:48There is a political will lacking on the side of the EU?It is no good
0:10:48 > 0:10:51saying just because someone else is in the driving seat it doesn't
0:10:51 > 0:10:57matter if we drive over the cliff edge. What we really need is a clear
0:10:57 > 0:11:02way to ensure that there is a soft border, and, so far, the government
0:11:02 > 0:11:06hasn't produced it.Is there a lack of will on the side of the EU? If
0:11:06 > 0:11:11they wanted to find a solution, one would be found.I think it is a
0:11:11 > 0:11:15tricky, technical thing to do because of the red lines which
0:11:15 > 0:11:21Theresa May has put forward, which I think make it very difficult.Why
0:11:21 > 0:11:26should the EU break its rules for the UK, in terms of the Irish
0:11:26 > 0:11:30border, and other UK to come out of the customs union and the single
0:11:30 > 0:11:35market and yet keep a completely open and frictionless border? As
0:11:35 > 0:11:41they say, they will never agree to us cherry picking when it comes to
0:11:41 > 0:11:45the rules and integrity of the single market and customs union?The
0:11:45 > 0:11:49reason we are agreeing on this is because both sides want it, neither
0:11:49 > 0:11:53side wants a hard border... On the other hand we can't see a hard
0:11:53 > 0:11:58border between one bit of the UK and another bid. It won't be an easy
0:11:58 > 0:12:03issue to solve, and it'll be one of the last issues to solve but with
0:12:03 > 0:12:07goodwill on all sides, it is soluble. I feel sympathetic to
0:12:07 > 0:12:12Bernard. To me, the text you read out, which we have had no time to
0:12:12 > 0:12:17respond to...He has had time to respond to it, he hasn't seen the
0:12:17 > 0:12:21full document.One last point on this, it is saying something that is
0:12:21 > 0:12:26obvious, it's always the case then needs to be a real that deals with
0:12:26 > 0:12:30the problem of the border between Northern Ireland and the republic.
0:12:30 > 0:12:35Obviously, that needs to be solved. Are you happy with the fact the
0:12:35 > 0:12:40agreement today during transition is going to give EU citizens who come
0:12:40 > 0:12:44during the two-year period exactly the same rights as their
0:12:44 > 0:12:48predecessors who were here before March 2019?If what you say is
0:12:48 > 0:12:53correct, no, I am not happy because we are going to leave the EU in
0:12:53 > 0:12:56March 2019 and I suspect you'll find in the small print that isn't what
0:12:56 > 0:13:01the agreement says.What differences would you like to see?We need to be
0:13:01 > 0:13:05able to verify and register people coming into the country.We can do
0:13:05 > 0:13:10that now.To check they are EU citizens.We can do that now in the
0:13:10 > 0:13:15single market. We don't do it but we could do it.The government could do
0:13:15 > 0:13:20it. Under EU law that could be described as discrimination that we
0:13:20 > 0:13:24are registering some EU citizens and not others so let's be accurate
0:13:24 > 0:13:29about this. Also the enforcement mechanisms. We can't have the United
0:13:29 > 0:13:34Kingdom Parliament around Loch, stock and barrel by the European
0:13:34 > 0:13:40Court of Justice as it is now when we are no longer represented on the
0:13:40 > 0:13:42European Court of Justice. Why are we passing an act of Parliament that
0:13:42 > 0:13:50abolishes the European Communities Act? It is going to be technically
0:13:50 > 0:13:54difficult exactly replicate this. I think there will be technical legal
0:13:54 > 0:13:58details that will end up with us having a subtly different
0:13:58 > 0:14:02jurisdiction, where we perhaps have regard to what is happening in the
0:14:02 > 0:14:08EU and we oblige our courts to do this, to have regard, but we cannot
0:14:08 > 0:14:15actually be bound as we are now. We are leaving! It doesn't respect the
0:14:15 > 0:14:18referendum result!Let's imagine that is the case and that is what we
0:14:18 > 0:14:22understand from the agreement today. What are you going to do about it?I
0:14:22 > 0:14:26think it'll be difficult to get the agreement through the House of
0:14:26 > 0:14:32Commons because how can you... Most constituencies in the House of
0:14:32 > 0:14:37Commons voted leave, they voted to be free of the European Court of
0:14:37 > 0:14:41Justice and the lawmaking capacity of the EU, that is what the
0:14:41 > 0:14:45referendum was about...And you are not in agreement with that?To end
0:14:45 > 0:14:50up at the same case but without sitting at the table, without being
0:14:50 > 0:14:53a member, this becomes a constitutional outrage and I am
0:14:53 > 0:14:57quite certain the government won't agree to it.Will it be the same on
0:14:57 > 0:15:02fishing? Would you feel the same about fishing quotas?Fish is a big
0:15:02 > 0:15:07problem because how can we allow the EU to set fishing quotas for British
0:15:07 > 0:15:11boats, particularly as big changes are coming through, when we have no
0:15:11 > 0:15:14chance of taking part in the initiation?What is the government
0:15:14 > 0:15:18going to do if there are people like Jacob Rees Mogg and Bernard Jenkins
0:15:18 > 0:15:24who can't sign up to this transition deal?
0:15:24 > 0:15:28The on fish, it looks from the rumours on twitter like we are
0:15:28 > 0:15:33actually getting a good deal today on fish. I looked at what Jacob
0:15:33 > 0:15:37Rees-Mogg said and it seemed like something everyone would agree to.
0:15:37 > 0:15:39Obviously we won't be able to implement new trade deals until
0:15:39 > 0:15:44we've left the EU, that's a matter of logic. But if we can negotiate
0:15:44 > 0:15:48them and get to the point of signing them during the transition I think
0:15:48 > 0:15:52everyone will be happy with that. David Davis has said that the UK
0:15:52 > 0:16:00will be able to step up, put and sign new trade deals across the
0:16:00 > 0:16:05globe that will come into force once the implementation period is over. I
0:16:05 > 0:16:08think we can hear him say it.
0:16:08 > 0:16:13The United Kingdom will be able to step out, sign and ratify new trade
0:16:13 > 0:16:17deals with old friends and new allies around the globe for the
0:16:17 > 0:16:24first time in more than 40 years. These will come into force when the
0:16:24 > 0:16:28implementation period is over. Providing new opportunities for
0:16:28 > 0:16:33businesses across the UK and seizing one of Brexit's greatest
0:16:33 > 0:16:39opportunities.Your reaction to that?I'm delighted. There is one
0:16:39 > 0:16:43important caveat. We must be able to conduct those negotiations in
0:16:43 > 0:16:47private. We shouldn't be obliged to have the EU sitting at the table.
0:16:47 > 0:16:53They have said they would like to be part of what's going on.We can't be
0:16:53 > 0:16:56conducting negotiations with the EU alongside every negotiation we are
0:16:56 > 0:17:01conducting in the World Trade Organisation.It is a diplomatic
0:17:01 > 0:17:06triumph. A lot of people in Brussels didn't want to agree that...But if
0:17:06 > 0:17:11they are overseeing it then actually we don't have our own control, we
0:17:11 > 0:17:15haven't taken back control over this important part of our foreign
0:17:15 > 0:17:20policy.We have because we'll be able to set our own trade deals.
0:17:20 > 0:17:24That is something a lot of people in Brussels didn't want to agree to and
0:17:24 > 0:17:29now we've achieved it. That's a big result.Thank you very much for
0:17:29 > 0:17:36coming in. Gavin Reilly, I haven't quite dispensed with you before
0:17:36 > 0:17:41you're allowed to go. In terms of the Irish government, is there now a
0:17:41 > 0:17:48more positive outlook from the Irish government in terms of engaging with
0:17:48 > 0:17:53the UK over finding a solution that could involve technology?There will
0:17:53 > 0:17:58probably be a lot of good faith about it. The fact they bid Davis
0:17:58 > 0:18:03has been willing to stake his claim and that the UK appears to be in
0:18:03 > 0:18:08principle willing to implement the backstop, that will help. There will
0:18:08 > 0:18:13be some frustration on the Irish side about how long that has taken.
0:18:13 > 0:18:17What we got out of the UK last December was an agreement that if no
0:18:17 > 0:18:21other solution could be found then Northern Ireland would enough
0:18:21 > 0:18:26European rules in order to avoid a border in the first place. It seems
0:18:26 > 0:18:29after Theresa May seemed to backtrack from that, that David
0:18:29 > 0:18:33Davis has been prepared to commit to bat again. All we've got is a
0:18:33 > 0:18:37reassertion of a principle to which the UK signed up three months ago
0:18:37 > 0:18:44anyway. There probably be some anxiety about how long it's taken
0:18:44 > 0:18:47given that Brexit is now only a year and a week away. There might be some
0:18:47 > 0:18:51more earnest intention on the Irish government's part to talk about
0:18:51 > 0:18:55technological solutions, in part because time is of the essence. If
0:18:55 > 0:18:58we are going to have to start looking at some kind of
0:18:58 > 0:19:02infrastructure even if it is only technological, surveillance and the
0:19:02 > 0:19:05like, it is something Ireland will no doubt be willing to pursue. It
0:19:05 > 0:19:09was something that at the start of the negotiations they had ruled out
0:19:09 > 0:19:13in theory. Now it seems they are open to it. The question is when the
0:19:13 > 0:19:21UK will come up with the solutions. The implementation period will end
0:19:21 > 0:19:26in December 2020 which is what David Davis had asked for.
0:19:26 > 0:19:28And for more reporting and analysis of Brexit,
0:19:28 > 0:19:32check out the BBC News website:
0:19:32 > 0:19:38Lynn Davidson is here and Sam Coates for reaction. Something to cheer
0:19:38 > 0:19:44about?I think it depends what side you are on. If you're a Scottish
0:19:44 > 0:19:48Conservative MP at the moment you may not be necessarily very happy
0:19:48 > 0:19:53with what's been said about fishing. John Lambert said he would be
0:19:53 > 0:19:57willing to break down a final Brexit deal if there were not guarantees
0:19:57 > 0:20:03over fishing quotas and vessels. What we are not entirely clear about
0:20:03 > 0:20:10is the timing on that.How much has the government had to compromise on
0:20:10 > 0:20:13getting this transition agreement and this legal text of the
0:20:13 > 0:20:18Withdrawal Agreement that was broadly signed up to in December?
0:20:18 > 0:20:24Quite a lot. You call it a transition, Theresa May calls it an
0:20:24 > 0:20:27implementation. Frankly it's a standstill. Our relationship with
0:20:27 > 0:20:32the EU will stay the same without us having a seat in the decision-making
0:20:32 > 0:20:44bodies. Just to get that 21 month extension we've had to abandon plans
0:20:44 > 0:20:47to stop EU citizens who come here during the transition period from
0:20:47 > 0:20:51staying, we've had to abandon the desire to bring back control of
0:20:51 > 0:20:54fishing, we even wanted the transition to go on longer. Brussels
0:20:54 > 0:21:01said no. On those things we've had to eventually climbed down to insure
0:21:01 > 0:21:05a relationship stays the same. Briefly, how much trouble are the
0:21:05 > 0:21:10likes of Bernard Jenkin saying he wouldn't be happy to sign up to a
0:21:10 > 0:21:14deal that gave exactly the same rights to EU citizens who arrive
0:21:14 > 0:21:17during that transition period and colleagues like Jacob Rees-Mogg are
0:21:17 > 0:21:25going to cause the Prime Minister?I think they are deciding right now as
0:21:25 > 0:21:29it's all rolling out. Someone might Bernard Jenkin is being loyal to
0:21:29 > 0:21:33Theresa May and has been quite outspoken about backing her. This
0:21:33 > 0:21:39puts them in an awkward position. Quotas are being decided and we
0:21:39 > 0:21:42aren't even in the rim.It will be the vassal state Jacob Rees-Mogg
0:21:42 > 0:21:45talked about.
0:21:45 > 0:21:50Adam Fleming is there. We talked about lots of colour coding going
0:21:50 > 0:21:58on. There it is! If it has clear as mud?It's quite difficult to read.
0:21:58 > 0:22:02Try reading that with the green highlighter on it. My first
0:22:02 > 0:22:06impressions are both sides are obviously over the moon because
0:22:06 > 0:22:08they've been negotiating all through the weekend and all through the
0:22:08 > 0:22:13night to get as much of this document as green as possible, which
0:22:13 > 0:22:19is obviously a big achievement. Two weeks ago this was the EU's text,
0:22:19 > 0:22:22the UK hadn't really contributed or given their say. Now they've managed
0:22:22 > 0:22:28to wrap up lots of it in quite a short period of time and they've
0:22:28 > 0:22:32managed to close some key chapters. Most of the citizens' rights stuff
0:22:32 > 0:22:36is agreed, most of the financial settlement staff is agreed, most of
0:22:36 > 0:22:41the transition period is agreed. They are pretty happy about that.
0:22:41 > 0:22:46There's still some big caveats. It looks like the 25% that hasn't been
0:22:46 > 0:22:50agreed is governance. How do you enforce disputes and make sure the
0:22:50 > 0:22:54agreement is adhered to by both sides after Brexit day and what does
0:22:54 > 0:23:02the European Court of Justice have to do with it? The other bit,
0:23:02 > 0:23:04Northern Ireland and Ireland which isn't agreed. Those two things are
0:23:04 > 0:23:06quite big things to still agree. They've been kicked down the road.
0:23:06 > 0:23:10I'm surprised there's been no decision about the European Court of
0:23:10 > 0:23:15Justice and whether it would still arbitrate over any disputes or new
0:23:15 > 0:23:18laws that are brought in during that two-year implementation period by
0:23:18 > 0:23:24the EU.So, what they've done is they've have agreed a governance
0:23:24 > 0:23:28mechanism for the citizens' rights part of this. That was agreed in
0:23:28 > 0:23:31December, the whole thing of the UK courts will make voluntary
0:23:31 > 0:23:37references to the
0:23:37 > 0:23:42references to the EC -- the ECJ. Now the British idea of a joint
0:23:42 > 0:23:46committee to handle disputes that arise during the fermentation or
0:23:46 > 0:23:50transition period has been agreed to and we'll have to go through the
0:23:50 > 0:23:54document and see the details. It's what comes after that which is still
0:23:54 > 0:23:59to be agreed and is there a role for the European Court of Justice. That
0:23:59 > 0:24:02seems like quite a big sticking point, still.What about signing up
0:24:02 > 0:24:07to free trade deals? David Davis said the UK will be allowed to do
0:24:07 > 0:24:13that but Bernard Jenkin said yes that's great but not if we have two
0:24:13 > 0:24:18deferred to the EU during that two-year implementation period while
0:24:18 > 0:24:21we are setting up these free trade deals. Do you know what the decision
0:24:21 > 0:24:30is there?I'm trying to find that in the document... Hang on! Article
0:24:30 > 0:24:36124, paragraph four... It still has the language saying they've got to
0:24:36 > 0:24:42be authorised by the European Union. The UK will have the power to
0:24:42 > 0:24:46negotiate and sign and ratify free trade deals, but they cannot be
0:24:46 > 0:24:49implemented unless they've got permission from the EU. That has
0:24:49 > 0:24:54pretty much stayed the same. It's always been a bit bizarre because
0:24:54 > 0:24:57all along Michel Barnier has said it's OK for the UK to go out into
0:24:57 > 0:25:01the world and talk to third countries and talk about trade
0:25:01 > 0:25:07deals, it's just getting it written down that the Brits want it.When
0:25:07 > 0:25:11the giddiness has died down in Brussels, what happens next?Michel
0:25:11 > 0:25:15Barnier is going to take this document to the meeting of EU
0:25:15 > 0:25:19affairs ministers for the 27 to get it signed off by ministerial level
0:25:19 > 0:25:22tomorrow. Then he'll go to the Wednesday meeting of the European
0:25:22 > 0:25:27Commission with Jean-Claude Juncker whether commissioners will sign it
0:25:27 > 0:25:30off. Then he'll take it to the European Council, the meeting of
0:25:30 > 0:25:35leaders on Friday where they will sign it off and they will also sign
0:25:35 > 0:25:38of their guidelines for phase two which is the 6-page document setting
0:25:38 > 0:25:42out their blueprint for how the talks about the future relationship
0:25:42 > 0:25:47are going to work. That will be another symbolic moment. We know
0:25:47 > 0:25:51roughly what they will say. Then it will be a case of how quickly can
0:25:51 > 0:25:55they get down to talking about that future relationship. Will be
0:25:55 > 0:25:58straight after the meeting of the European Council and the meeting of
0:25:58 > 0:26:02the leaders, or will there be another bureaucratic process where
0:26:02 > 0:26:05Michel Barnier takes those guidelines awake and clarifies them
0:26:05 > 0:26:12into an even detailed document? Or can he get down to it straightaway?
0:26:12 > 0:26:17Worth remembering what the EU says is the best case scenario for the
0:26:17 > 0:26:21outcome from those negotiations. It is a political agreement about the
0:26:21 > 0:26:24shape of the future relationship. The EU saying it will not be the
0:26:24 > 0:26:29fully fledged free trade deal that the British government talks about,
0:26:29 > 0:26:33so that's what the next few months is going to be about, how detailed
0:26:33 > 0:26:37is that political declaration and how much does look like a free trade
0:26:37 > 0:26:41agreement.Thank you, Adam.
0:26:41 > 0:26:43Vladimir Putin has been elected Russian President for another six
0:26:43 > 0:26:46years in a victory that was assured after the country's most popular
0:26:46 > 0:26:50opposition politician was excluded from standing.
0:26:50 > 0:26:52There were reports of ballot rigging, and turnout was up,
0:26:52 > 0:26:54something Putin's campaign claimed was due to the confrontation
0:26:54 > 0:26:56with Britain over the poisoning of Sergei Skripal.
0:26:56 > 0:26:59International experts are arriving in the UK today to assess the type
0:26:59 > 0:27:03of nerve agent used to poison the former double agent
0:27:03 > 0:27:04and his daughter in Salisbury.
0:27:04 > 0:27:10Tom Burridge is there.
0:27:10 > 0:27:16Can you bring us up to speed with what's going on in Salisbury?In
0:27:16 > 0:27:22terms of police activity over the weekend, a pretty minimal amount of
0:27:22 > 0:27:26visible activity. One focus of the investigation is Sergei Skripal's
0:27:26 > 0:27:32car. Parked in the city centre of the afternoon that they fell
0:27:32 > 0:27:37critically ill. The police want to hear from anyone in Salisbury on
0:27:37 > 0:27:40Sunday the 4th of March who might have seen the car earlier in the
0:27:40 > 0:27:45morning. The other main development is officials from the Organisation
0:27:45 > 0:27:48for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, a delegation of ten
0:27:48 > 0:27:52individuals are in Wiltshire now. They'll be here for a week or so is
0:27:52 > 0:27:57spending most of their time at the MoD's scientific research facility.
0:27:57 > 0:28:06The idea is that samples of the nerve agent used to attack so Gail
0:28:06 > 0:28:11and Yulia Skripal will be sent to as many as 20 laboratories and 16
0:28:11 > 0:28:16countries. These are independent laboratories signed off by the OPCW
0:28:16 > 0:28:23for testing. The idea is in about three weeks' time at least the OPCW
0:28:23 > 0:28:26will make its own conclusions about the nerve agent used in the attack.
0:28:26 > 0:28:32Thank you.
0:28:33 > 0:28:37Helen Goodman, what is Labour's line in terms of its confrontation with
0:28:37 > 0:28:42the government over this issue?We supported everything that the
0:28:42 > 0:28:46government has done in the wake of Salisbury and we agree with the
0:28:46 > 0:28:49Prime Minister's assessment that the overwhelming probability is that
0:28:49 > 0:28:53it's either deliberate on the part of the Russians or they lost
0:28:53 > 0:28:58control. On either bases they are wholly culpable. What the Leader of
0:28:58 > 0:29:03the Opposition was asking was for the involvement of the Organisation
0:29:03 > 0:29:05for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons. We've got that now and it's
0:29:05 > 0:29:13extremely helpful. We also pressed the
0:29:13 > 0:29:16the government on Magnitsky and they've done a U-turn as well.On
0:29:16 > 0:29:21Magnitsky, what do you say about the governments and the party 's
0:29:21 > 0:29:23opposition to something that would strengthen what the row could be
0:29:23 > 0:29:29used against Russian oligarchs or money laundering in Britain?It's
0:29:29 > 0:29:36not a U-turn. We are in favour of a Magnitsky style act...It is a
0:29:36 > 0:29:39U-turn, you voted against it a fortnight ago stopped with that was
0:29:39 > 0:29:44because of technical problems. This is too important to play party
0:29:44 > 0:29:49politics. We all agree on a Magnitsky act. We all agree on
0:29:49 > 0:29:53people who have been involved in corruption in Russia. We cannot let
0:29:53 > 0:29:58the people who run Russia try and divide us and make us play party
0:29:58 > 0:30:03politics against each other. One of the things I've been most disgusted
0:30:03 > 0:30:10by is the way the Russians have mocked us over this issue.
0:30:10 > 0:30:16This is a situation where a brave police officer and a man are nearly
0:30:16 > 0:30:19dead because of a brush and state-sponsored assassination
0:30:19 > 0:30:23attempt on our streets and we must not let them do what they always do,
0:30:23 > 0:30:28when they shot down the passenger jet over Ukraine, they blamed
0:30:28 > 0:30:33Ukraine and they said the dues to did. We've got to be canny about it
0:30:33 > 0:30:37and not let the Kremlin divide us. Do you think you've had support from
0:30:37 > 0:30:42the Labour Party cuisine and I was initially disappointed by Jeremy
0:30:42 > 0:30:48Corbyn's responds.It was a lot of backbenchers who are disappointed in
0:30:48 > 0:30:53his response but let's move on from that now. We are getting together a
0:30:53 > 0:30:57strong coalition about partners. The Prime Minister is leading the
0:30:57 > 0:31:03country strongly on this. We've got people in from the Organisation for
0:31:03 > 0:31:06the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons and the live the Russians are trying
0:31:06 > 0:31:09to tell, firstly they are saying they didn't make it at all, then
0:31:09 > 0:31:13they are saying we made it but we got rid of it. Then they are saying
0:31:13 > 0:31:19maybe some got out of the country. They are always using their
0:31:19 > 0:31:23propaganda television stations to muddy the water, to wrap you up in
0:31:23 > 0:31:27process.Do you think it should be stopped in this country?I don't
0:31:27 > 0:31:32think any serious MP should be going on it. Alex Salmond shouldn't be
0:31:32 > 0:31:39going on it.Should Ofcom stop broadcasting it?We have the rule of
0:31:39 > 0:31:45law here and Ofcom will make a decision on the basis of the fact. I
0:31:45 > 0:31:49don't think it was right for Jeremy Corbyn to go on that or to promote
0:31:49 > 0:31:53it as a serious news outlet and I hope the Labour MPs will not go on
0:31:53 > 0:31:57there anymore.Let's hear what the shadow chancellor did say in terms
0:31:57 > 0:32:03of Labour's response to what the government had proposed in Theresa
0:32:03 > 0:32:06May's Commons statement.I agree with the Prime Minister completely.
0:32:06 > 0:32:10What she said is that Russia is culpable either by direct
0:32:10 > 0:32:15commission, Putin has ordered this, or they've lost control of their
0:32:15 > 0:32:20supply.To be clear, she has backed away from the pieces they've lost
0:32:20 > 0:32:26control. She is holding him personally responsible. You not
0:32:26 > 0:32:30agreeing with that?I do agree with that. She has repeated that
0:32:30 > 0:32:33statement three times. He is responsible whichever way you look
0:32:33 > 0:32:39at it. All the evidence points to him.John McDonnell was very clear
0:32:39 > 0:32:42is today, Helen Goodman but Jeremy Corbyn said that he still believes
0:32:42 > 0:32:45the Prime Minister's initial line there are two civilities for who
0:32:45 > 0:32:51carried out the attack, so which one is the official line? Did Putin do
0:32:51 > 0:32:55it or do we need to pursue both lines of inquiry that it could have
0:32:55 > 0:33:01been someone else?Vladimir Putin is responsible because the nerve agent
0:33:01 > 0:33:10was made in Russia. And, therefore, whatever the root, Vladimir Putin
0:33:10 > 0:33:13must be the person held responsible. I think it is more important we now
0:33:13 > 0:33:20think about what we need to do, and I think the government is very weak
0:33:20 > 0:33:24on the money-laundering because we've got billions coming into
0:33:24 > 0:33:29London. The National Crime Agency estimates £90 billion of money is
0:33:29 > 0:33:33laundered through London every year. We have been putting down amendments
0:33:33 > 0:33:39to this bill.And we've talked about the Magnitsky. We will come onto the
0:33:39 > 0:33:41money-laundering in a moment. Let's talk about Jeremy Corbyn and John
0:33:41 > 0:33:49McDonnell. Where does the party stand?The Labour Party... It is an
0:33:49 > 0:33:53uneasy compromise. John McDonnell said yesterday the phrase the Prime
0:33:53 > 0:33:58Minister is right to blame Russia. That is quite uncomfortable when set
0:33:58 > 0:34:03against what Jeremy Corbyn did last week. I think John McDonnell has his
0:34:03 > 0:34:07eye on the internal Labour politics which have been very messy. I think
0:34:07 > 0:34:13he is trying to put behind the row brewing at the back end of last week
0:34:13 > 0:34:18and smooth over some of the difficulties. Whilst they are not
0:34:18 > 0:34:21saying President Putin was responsible, they are saying he is
0:34:21 > 0:34:25to blame, which seems to be a line Labour can more or less unite
0:34:25 > 0:34:29around.Except there has been a divide. Last week there were a
0:34:29 > 0:34:33number of Labour MPs that felt Jeremy Corbyn was equivocating. In
0:34:33 > 0:34:37his article, he said we shouldn't resign ourselves to McCarthy like
0:34:37 > 0:34:42intolerance of dissent. What did that mean to you?I was as
0:34:42 > 0:34:47flabbergasted at as many Labour backbenchers. You only had to see
0:34:47 > 0:34:52Yvette Cooper's reaction when she shot up immediately after Jeremy
0:34:52 > 0:34:57Corbyn to make her position clear and later John Woodcock's early day
0:34:57 > 0:35:03motion. Some might say that John McDonnell now is almost isolated
0:35:03 > 0:35:07Jeremy Corbyn in his position but any journalist who stood in the
0:35:07 > 0:35:11huddle last Wednesday after PMQs when Jeremy Corbyn spokesman's
0:35:11 > 0:35:17brought up the weapons of mass destruction dossier would be no
0:35:17 > 0:35:23doubt.Was that irresponsible of the director of communication to set had
0:35:23 > 0:35:26been failures in intelligence in the past and we should be cautious over
0:35:26 > 0:35:33this?Mary Griffiths pointed out to the BBC, the shadow defence
0:35:33 > 0:35:37spokesman, that these situations are rather different, and I think she's
0:35:37 > 0:35:41right, they are.So the spokesman should have spoken out of turn?He
0:35:41 > 0:35:46has to say what he thinks is best in the moment when he says it but I
0:35:46 > 0:35:51think once we have reflected, it is clear this is quite different from
0:35:51 > 0:35:55the Iraq situation.Do you think we have to hear the Labour leader say
0:35:55 > 0:35:59that in the same way we've heard John McDonnell, who is very clear
0:35:59 > 0:36:02that Putin is responsible whichever way you look at it, and all the
0:36:02 > 0:36:08evidence points to him?I think that it is really important that we all
0:36:08 > 0:36:12support the action the government has taken which Jeremy has done,
0:36:12 > 0:36:20that we condemn the attack which Jeremy has done...He said this
0:36:20 > 0:36:25serves neither justice nor our national security. Is he right?The
0:36:25 > 0:36:29role of the oppositionist was questions and he asks questions. He
0:36:29 > 0:36:33is not denying the Russians are responsible. He is saying the
0:36:33 > 0:36:38Russians are responsible.He hasn't said Putin is responsible. Should he
0:36:38 > 0:36:42quiz low I haven't got the text in front of me and you have but what he
0:36:42 > 0:36:48has said is we have two possibilities.Either they did it
0:36:48 > 0:36:52pop deliberately or they've lost control and on either bases the
0:36:52 > 0:36:55Russians are responsible.But actually it is clear in terms of
0:36:55 > 0:37:00what John McDonald is saying, that Putin did it. I mean, there are no
0:37:00 > 0:37:04two ways, he is saying. He isn't saying let's have a look at the
0:37:04 > 0:37:10evidence. Who is right? The Labour leader or shadow chancellor?We are
0:37:10 > 0:37:14having a look at the evidence now and your correspondent has pointed
0:37:14 > 0:37:18out that it is being sent round to 20 different laboratories around the
0:37:18 > 0:37:22world.Should we wait for that evidence?I think it would be
0:37:22 > 0:37:27helpful to wait for what comes out of that evidence. My own view is
0:37:27 > 0:37:31that Putin is responsible and I've made that clear.Should we be
0:37:31 > 0:37:35waiting? Did Theresa May rush to judgment? If we have people going in
0:37:35 > 0:37:41to decide exactly what the nerve agent was and how it was used,
0:37:41 > 0:37:44should we have waited before pointing the finger of blame firmly
0:37:44 > 0:37:50at Putin?I agree with Helen. The Prime Minister was right to give the
0:37:50 > 0:37:53Russians one last opportunity to explain how this nerve agent which
0:37:53 > 0:37:57only they make had come to be on the streets of Wiltshire. They haven't
0:37:57 > 0:38:02been able to do that. They've mocked us. Putin in a triumphalist way has
0:38:02 > 0:38:06gloated about this. And it is absolutely clear he did this. From
0:38:06 > 0:38:11the conversation, the winner of this discussion is that a mere Putin
0:38:11 > 0:38:16because we've spent a long time talking about party politics.Our
0:38:16 > 0:38:20party politics not important?Not enough time thinking about what we
0:38:20 > 0:38:26will to about the problem. This is a Richey MEDLINE, hacking into the
0:38:26 > 0:38:30defence Defence Ministry, they've attacked the Bundestag in Germany,
0:38:30 > 0:38:35they've destabilise the Baltics and now we must come together and take
0:38:35 > 0:38:37firm action to stop this state-sponsored murder on our
0:38:37 > 0:38:39streets.Thank you both for coming in.
0:38:39 > 0:38:42If you live in England you can still, at the moment,
0:38:42 > 0:38:44use a shock collar to train your dog or your cat.
0:38:44 > 0:38:47But not for much longer, it seems, after Environment Secretary Michael
0:38:47 > 0:38:49Gove launched a consultation with a view to banning
0:38:49 > 0:38:53what he called "punitive devices."
0:38:53 > 0:38:56Well, they're due to be banned in Scotland and were
0:38:56 > 0:38:58banned in Wales in 2010.
0:38:58 > 0:39:04Here's how the BBC covered it at the time.
0:39:04 > 0:39:05This is Lady.
0:39:05 > 0:39:08She's being trained as a guard dog, but there's a problem -
0:39:08 > 0:39:11she likes chasing sheep.
0:39:11 > 0:39:15She's been fitted with a so-called "shock collar".
0:39:15 > 0:39:18When her trainer presses a button on a remotely-controlled handset,
0:39:18 > 0:39:23it emits a pulse of electricity...
0:39:23 > 0:39:25LADY BARKS.
0:39:25 > 0:39:30..And Lady leaves the sheep alone.
0:39:30 > 0:39:32We're joined now by Nathalie Ingham a canine behaviourist
0:39:32 > 0:39:33from Battersea Dogs and Cats Home.
0:39:33 > 0:39:35She's brought along Bella a staffordshire terrier
0:39:35 > 0:39:41and Abbie a chihuahua.
0:39:41 > 0:39:43Journalist Quentin Letts also joins me in the studio and Deidre Brock
0:39:43 > 0:39:49from the Scottish National Party is in Edinburgh.
0:39:49 > 0:39:54First of all tell us what these shock collars two.Shock collars
0:39:54 > 0:39:59administer an electric shock to the animals so normally they are worn
0:39:59 > 0:40:04around the collar. They should in theory give off a sound to
0:40:04 > 0:40:07pre-warned the animal that a shocker is coming but not all of them do.
0:40:07 > 0:40:13And the idea is that people utilise them in thinking they are going to
0:40:13 > 0:40:17stop an unwanted behaviour but the realities are very different.What
0:40:17 > 0:40:20methods do you recommend the training?We recommend people use
0:40:20 > 0:40:26positive reward -based method so it is important owners of dogs create a
0:40:26 > 0:40:31solid bond with their dogs so learn how to play with their dogs, so they
0:40:31 > 0:40:36have a connection with the animals. By doing that, animals will want to
0:40:36 > 0:40:39seek that attention from the owner and will be able to respond them
0:40:39 > 0:40:43more. So they'd look to the owner in a situation rather than making their
0:40:43 > 0:40:49own choices all the time. So definitely using play, food as
0:40:49 > 0:40:53rewards, anything that will strengthen the bond and reward good
0:40:53 > 0:40:57behaviour is.While they're sitting quietly and not disturbed by you,
0:40:57 > 0:41:02are you a fan of them?I'm not a fan of those ones you press the button
0:41:02 > 0:41:07and the dog gets shocked. We have badly behaved terriers.Is that a
0:41:07 > 0:41:11failure of the owners training?I'm not sure it is because one of them
0:41:11 > 0:41:16as a rescue dog and it goes around the perimeter of our garden, and it
0:41:16 > 0:41:21means when the dog goes near the wire, it gets a sound and if it goes
0:41:21 > 0:41:24a bit further, it doesn't get a shock but a vibrating. And these
0:41:24 > 0:41:29devices which are terrific, and are very good for animal welfare...So
0:41:29 > 0:41:34you wouldn't want to see them banned?Michael Gove wants to put
0:41:34 > 0:41:40these out of business because he is a politician, he's playing games,
0:41:40 > 0:41:42triangulating or whatever these ghastly politicians do, trying to
0:41:42 > 0:41:47show the Tories are very good on animal welfare. I'm not going to
0:41:47 > 0:41:52cost judgment on that but what is going to do is make life worse for
0:41:52 > 0:41:56cats and dogs that use these containment devices which stops them
0:41:56 > 0:42:00going out on roads and getting run over.So, it'll make it worse for
0:42:00 > 0:42:05dogs and cats.I'd have to disagree with that. In fact the vibrating
0:42:05 > 0:42:08collars are still permissible in Scotland but I'm proud of the fact
0:42:08 > 0:42:13the Scottish government have banned these collars. What we'd like to see
0:42:13 > 0:42:18is this go further and the actual sale is banned throughout the UK,
0:42:18 > 0:42:22that is something under the quirks of the devolution settlement that
0:42:22 > 0:42:26the UK government has the power to do at the moment so we are calling
0:42:26 > 0:42:31on the UK government, and not us alone. This is a cross-party
0:42:31 > 0:42:35situation. The ban of these collars is cross-party and we've done a lot
0:42:35 > 0:42:39of work with colleagues in different parties on this issue.Do you think
0:42:39 > 0:42:44they are cruel?I had a Brave colleague who volunteered to be
0:42:44 > 0:42:49zapped by one of these collars on his hand and it was only at 30% of
0:42:49 > 0:42:55its strength but he was shocked at how painful it was, and this was
0:42:55 > 0:42:59very recently at an event I hosted with other MPs and the parliament
0:42:59 > 0:43:07which featured dogs trust UK, kennel club and others, raising the profile
0:43:07 > 0:43:11of this particular issue, and he was accusingly later telling me that
0:43:11 > 0:43:17some half an hour later his hand was still numb afterwards.That's cruel,
0:43:17 > 0:43:23isn't it?We've tried these things to. You know those things you get
0:43:23 > 0:43:27that joke shops when you shake someone's hand and they put a
0:43:27 > 0:43:32vibrating thing on? That is what it feels like. The dog gets it once or
0:43:32 > 0:43:41twice in its life and it learns. Once or twice in their life they
0:43:41 > 0:43:45might get a vibration, then that means they can roam free, have a
0:43:45 > 0:43:50terrific life and not get run over and not chase horses all walkers.Is
0:43:50 > 0:43:56it better than King run over?My concern is there doesn't seem to be
0:43:56 > 0:44:01any upper limit on the voltage of electric shock collars. Most many
0:44:01 > 0:44:05factors are a member of an association which means their
0:44:05 > 0:44:08products meet latest technical requirements but some of these
0:44:08 > 0:44:14collars can shock up to 6,000 volts. They are painful. Just suggesting
0:44:14 > 0:44:17they might only be used once or twice and that will solve the issue
0:44:17 > 0:44:23is I think... I am glad his dogs are so well-behaved...No, they're not,
0:44:23 > 0:44:33that's the thing! People say why don't you put a fence up? Peep
0:44:34 > 0:44:36don't you put a fence up? Peep -- they'd dig under these fences.
0:44:36 > 0:44:40Michael Gove of all people who believes in small government, why do
0:44:40 > 0:44:44they want to wreck life for dogs and cats? They will make life so much
0:44:44 > 0:44:47worse for them and ruined the freedom these animals have. I find
0:44:47 > 0:44:54it baffling. I can't understand why anyone would want to cause an animal
0:44:54 > 0:44:56pain or distress, particularly in the UK a group of nations renowned
0:44:56 > 0:45:03the world over for its love of animals.To still be containing...
0:45:03 > 0:45:07Our last dog did not have one of these and she was run over and spent
0:45:07 > 0:45:12two years... She was in such pain we had to put her down. That is what I
0:45:12 > 0:45:18am trying to stop. And I get so furious about this. It is a classic
0:45:18 > 0:45:22example of politicians making life worse for people.Maybe Michael Gove
0:45:22 > 0:45:27doesn't think he is going to make life worse for people. What will you
0:45:27 > 0:45:32do if you ban is it?We will have to obey the law but I'd trip to think
0:45:32 > 0:45:37what will happen to our dogs. Will we give them away or risk them
0:45:37 > 0:45:46getting run over. I will put one of their dead bodies on his desk.Most
0:45:46 > 0:45:49organisations think positive reinforcement training is far more
0:45:49 > 0:45:55effective than the collars. Doesn't seem to be any particular
0:45:55 > 0:46:01restriction on the of these items. Anyone who wishes to, you can go
0:46:01 > 0:46:05online and see a huge range of these collars on offer, you can purchase
0:46:05 > 0:46:10them online or you can purchase them from countries that haven't banned
0:46:10 > 0:46:15their sale or use.I don't think you're talking about containment
0:46:15 > 0:46:20fences. These are the things that will be caught by this rotten and
0:46:20 > 0:46:28life ruining and life... Law.I would argue animal welfare policies
0:46:28 > 0:46:34have come on so much, why would you want to endorse any sort of...We
0:46:34 > 0:46:40will have to leave it there.
0:46:40 > 0:46:44Ultimately I think there are better ways of training dogs and cats. When
0:46:44 > 0:46:50you look at the behaviour, you need to look at motivation behind those.
0:46:50 > 0:46:53Shock collars can be sold to anybody. Anybody could put one on
0:46:53 > 0:47:00tiny little bell here. Research shows the shocks administered were
0:47:00 > 0:47:04inconsistent with the manufacturing guidelines, so it can cause a lot of
0:47:04 > 0:47:12distress.We have
0:47:12 > 0:47:15distress.We have noted the difference between shock collars and
0:47:15 > 0:47:23containment fences. We're going to say goodbye now. Thank you.
0:47:23 > 0:47:26This afternoon, MPs will debate a petition calling for people
0:47:26 > 0:47:28with cystic fibrosis to be given a life-changing, but
0:47:28 > 0:47:29very expensive, drug.
0:47:29 > 0:47:32Elizabeth Glinka has been to meet a young woman who's had access
0:47:32 > 0:47:34to the treatment as part of a medical trial and believes
0:47:34 > 0:47:36strongly it should be available on the NHS.
0:47:36 > 0:47:39Cystic fibrosis is an inherited genetic disorder, which you get
0:47:39 > 0:47:43from your mum and your dad being carriers, and then
0:47:43 > 0:47:48you have a one in four chance of getting cystic fibrosis.
0:47:48 > 0:47:50Two years ago, 21-year-old Chantelle Millward was
0:47:50 > 0:47:52running out of options.
0:47:52 > 0:47:54Her condition, which affects breathing and digestion,
0:47:54 > 0:47:59had become so severe a lung transplant was the only treatment.
0:47:59 > 0:48:01I didn't really have a life.
0:48:01 > 0:48:06I was in and out of hospital every 4-6 weeks.
0:48:06 > 0:48:08When you get referred for a lung transplant,
0:48:08 > 0:48:14your life expectancy is two years or less.
0:48:14 > 0:48:15So, that's literally the last option.
0:48:15 > 0:48:17So, it's either a lung transplant or die.
0:48:17 > 0:48:19But it was then Chantelle was offered a place
0:48:19 > 0:48:25on the Orkambi drugs trial.
0:48:25 > 0:48:27It's a treatment which slows the decline of lung function
0:48:27 > 0:48:28in around a third of patients.
0:48:28 > 0:48:31But at £100,000 a year, in 2016 the drugs advisory body Nice
0:48:31 > 0:48:33concluded it wasn't cost effective for the NHS.
0:48:33 > 0:48:35Since then, patients and their families have
0:48:35 > 0:48:39been campaigning for a change in guidelines.
0:48:39 > 0:48:41So, what difference has Orkambi made to your life?
0:48:41 > 0:48:44I feel like I can plan for my future, whereas two years ago
0:48:44 > 0:48:49I couldn't even plan the day let alone my future.
0:48:49 > 0:48:51Chantelle's daily routine involves taking more than 50
0:48:51 > 0:48:52drugs and supplements, but that's actually better
0:48:52 > 0:48:56than it used to be.
0:48:56 > 0:49:02So, where's the drug that's made such a difference, then?
0:49:02 > 0:49:04I keep this one in the box, because it's the treasured one.
0:49:04 > 0:49:06So, I have a morning and evening dose...
0:49:06 > 0:49:09But while Chantelle's quality of life has improved on Orkambi,
0:49:09 > 0:49:13she's acutely aware that's not the case for everyone.
0:49:13 > 0:49:17The past two years, I've lost four very, very close friends.
0:49:17 > 0:49:19I've lost a lot over the years, but these four
0:49:19 > 0:49:20were very, very close.
0:49:20 > 0:49:23We speak every day.
0:49:23 > 0:49:26One I recently lost just before Christmas,
0:49:26 > 0:49:30on the same ward, and, yeah...
0:49:30 > 0:49:32It's very, very hard.
0:49:32 > 0:49:34How old was your friend who died?
0:49:34 > 0:49:35She was 20.
0:49:35 > 0:49:40Didn't even reach her 21st birthday.
0:49:40 > 0:49:42Vertex, the drugs company, can withdraw it at any point,
0:49:42 > 0:49:47and that's the bit that worries me the most, because if that happened
0:49:47 > 0:49:50and that drug gets taken from me, I'm going to be back in the same
0:49:50 > 0:49:54position as I was two years ago, which I really don't want to be in.
0:49:54 > 0:49:57And so if people were to say to you this drug is too expensive,
0:49:57 > 0:49:59we can't afford it, what would you say?
0:49:59 > 0:50:03Over a year, in the long run it would actually
0:50:03 > 0:50:06save them a lot of money, because I already know it's reduced
0:50:06 > 0:50:10my admissions, which obviously is reducing the costs.
0:50:10 > 0:50:12Three antibiotics have stopped because I don't need them anymore,
0:50:12 > 0:50:15and with my IV, antibiotics and things, I don't have to go
0:50:15 > 0:50:19in as often as I did.
0:50:19 > 0:50:20And you're at work, as well.
0:50:20 > 0:50:21Exactly!
0:50:21 > 0:50:29It's brought me together as a person.
0:50:30 > 0:50:34It's built me up, and I just think if I didn't have this drug two years
0:50:34 > 0:50:37ago I would not be in this place right now, so...
0:50:37 > 0:50:39You can't put a price on it.
0:50:39 > 0:50:41The life expectancy for people with cystic fibrosis has increased
0:50:41 > 0:50:44to 47 in recent decades, but the condition is still
0:50:44 > 0:50:46life-threatening, even in the young.
0:50:46 > 0:50:54For sufferers, the price of a drug like Orkambi is one worth paying.
0:50:54 > 0:50:57So, as I said, this is being debated at Westminster later today,
0:50:57 > 0:51:02the drug Orkambi hasn't been approved for routine use in the UK.
0:51:02 > 0:51:04The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence, known as NICE,
0:51:04 > 0:51:08which advises the NHS in England and Wales on which drugs to buy
0:51:08 > 0:51:11and use, said NICE issued guidance in July 2016 which did not recommend
0:51:11 > 0:51:18Orkambi to treat cystic fibrosis.
0:51:32 > 0:51:35We were talking about the deal on the Brexit transition that's been
0:51:35 > 0:51:41reached between the EU and Britain. Let's have a listen to David Davis
0:51:41 > 0:51:45speaking at that press Conference.
0:51:45 > 0:51:50In Munich and at Mansion House, the Prime Minister set out a powerful
0:51:50 > 0:51:54deal, one which will ensure with economic and security cooperation
0:51:54 > 0:51:59reflects our unique starting point and shared history. My job and that
0:51:59 > 0:52:05of my team is to deliver on that vision, and in doing so we must
0:52:05 > 0:52:10seize the moment and carry forward the moment of the past few weeks.
0:52:10 > 0:52:14The deal was struck today on top of that agreed in December which should
0:52:14 > 0:52:20give us confidence that a good deal for the UK and EU is closer than
0:52:20 > 0:52:24ever before.Do you agree with that analysis, that a good deal for
0:52:24 > 0:52:29Britain is closer than ever before? I don't know about that. I'm a bit
0:52:29 > 0:52:33sceptical about these new trade deals he's parading, because what I
0:52:33 > 0:52:37hear from the other side of the fence from the other countries is
0:52:37 > 0:52:40that the British government just wants to roll over the existing EU
0:52:40 > 0:52:45trade deals because it takes so long to negotiate any improvement. If you
0:52:45 > 0:52:51look at China, for example, the Germans are selling twice as much,
0:52:51 > 0:52:56no, five times as much to China as we are and they are still in the
0:52:56 > 0:53:01customs union and single market. Obviously David Davis is relieved
0:53:01 > 0:53:05that this stage is over but I'm not convinced it's that great.What
0:53:05 > 0:53:09evidence is there that the free trade deals that can be done with
0:53:09 > 0:53:11third countries by Britain will compensate for any loss of trade
0:53:11 > 0:53:17done with the EU?You're assuming there will be a loss of trade with
0:53:17 > 0:53:21the EU...You don't think there will be any?I think the purpose of what
0:53:21 > 0:53:25the government is trying to do is to minimise friction...Theresa May
0:53:25 > 0:53:30said in her most recent speech that there would be some loss, we won't
0:53:30 > 0:53:36get the same benefits. Let's take her word...We've made another major
0:53:36 > 0:53:40step towards delivering Brexit which means we'll get out of the situation
0:53:40 > 0:53:44we are in now where we are paying £16 billion a year into the EU,
0:53:44 > 0:53:48where we are not able to control the free movement of people between the
0:53:48 > 0:53:54EU and the UK and we are not in control of our own laws. These three
0:53:54 > 0:53:56match the profound changes in this country that Brexit will deliver,
0:53:56 > 0:54:01this is another step towards delivering that. We will also be
0:54:01 > 0:54:04able to do our trade deals with third countries and that is another
0:54:04 > 0:54:10benefit. People always want to pick at every micro-detail but...Someone
0:54:10 > 0:54:15might debate about whether it is micro-detail...Towards getting a
0:54:15 > 0:54:20better situation for this country.
0:54:20 > 0:54:22If you follow politics on social media, you might be confused
0:54:22 > 0:54:24about what is happening with free school meals.
0:54:24 > 0:54:25Have a look at this.
0:54:25 > 0:54:28PIANO MUSIC THROUGHOUT.
0:55:12 > 0:55:16James Cleverly for the Conservative Party disputing claims made by the
0:55:16 > 0:55:19opposition.
0:55:19 > 0:55:21Yes, the Labour Party seems certain that the Conservatives are pressing
0:55:21 > 0:55:24ahead with a plan that could stop more than a million children
0:55:24 > 0:55:25receiving a free school meal.
0:55:25 > 0:55:27The Conservatives say that's "scaremongering and misinformation",
0:55:27 > 0:55:29and actually the reverse is true - an extra 50,000
0:55:29 > 0:55:31children could benefit.
0:55:31 > 0:55:33Well, to hopefully shed a bit of light on what's happening
0:55:33 > 0:55:36here I'm joined by the BBC's head of statistics, Robert Cuffe.
0:55:36 > 0:55:40No pressure to clear up this. Our 1 million children going to lose the
0:55:40 > 0:55:45right way school meal?It depends on how you ask the question. No one is
0:55:45 > 0:55:48really arguing with the arithmetic but each party is choosing a
0:55:48 > 0:55:54different comparison. If you go back to before Universal Credit was
0:55:54 > 0:55:58started, back then free school meals were means tested. When Universal
0:55:58 > 0:56:01Credit was rolled out the government promised as an interim measure only
0:56:01 > 0:56:04to give free school meals to everyone receiving Universal Credit
0:56:04 > 0:56:10and have now decided it wasn't going to be forever and they are going to
0:56:10 > 0:56:14stop means testing again. It is true to say that the current means
0:56:14 > 0:56:18testing is more generous than the old version was. That's how you get
0:56:18 > 0:56:22the extra 50,000 kids receiving free school meals. But of course means
0:56:22 > 0:56:26tested meals are less generous than meals for everybody so it is also
0:56:26 > 0:56:28technically true to say that had they gone on providing this for
0:56:28 > 0:56:33ever, which they never said they would do, their 1 million Jordan
0:56:33 > 0:56:38would be receiving this.Is this about a hypothetical situation being
0:56:38 > 0:56:43created in the future? Are any children receiving free school meals
0:56:43 > 0:56:49now going to lose it?Nobody is going to go into a school ready to
0:56:49 > 0:56:55grab a tray from underneath a child. The government made clear that
0:56:55 > 0:56:58anyone receiving it under current provisions will continue to receive
0:56:58 > 0:57:02it. But children in the future will not be getting them and they might
0:57:02 > 0:57:05have been entitled, at the government decided to continue this
0:57:05 > 0:57:09benefit.Are you happy you've been responsible for at least confusing
0:57:09 > 0:57:13the issue in terms of statistics? The way has been described as good.
0:57:13 > 0:57:171 million children who would have had it under the current regime
0:57:17 > 0:57:21won't get it. Actually all wrong because people sometimes go on to
0:57:21 > 0:57:27Universal Credit and off it and on it again. You can be an UC now,
0:57:27 > 0:57:30getting free school meals, go off it, make a new claim and then not
0:57:30 > 0:57:35get it. Perhaps that is an extremely complicated approach.Do you accept
0:57:35 > 0:57:39they aren't having their meals taken away?I thought the government has
0:57:39 > 0:57:46said 100,000 children were losing... Not true at all.And I thought it
0:57:46 > 0:57:51was the government saying only 100,000 were losing and the
0:57:51 > 0:57:54Children's Society were saying 1 million...Should you have put out
0:57:54 > 0:57:59that sort of information if you weren't sure?This is why post-truth
0:57:59 > 0:58:03politics. We've just heard from the BBC's independent fact checker that
0:58:03 > 0:58:07not one single child getting free school meals will lose it and 50,000
0:58:07 > 0:58:11more schoolchildren will be eligible.Tell us why that is truly.
0:58:11 > 0:58:15We've made the system more generous. The Labour Party Palm Springs and to
0:58:15 > 0:58:21social media hoping to get things to people before the fact checkers
0:58:21 > 0:58:27catch up -- the Labour Party pumps things into social media. We've
0:58:27 > 0:58:31inherited a situation where...We haven't got time, I must let Helen
0:58:31 > 0:58:39responds.Some children will lose... It's simply not true. Not one child
0:58:39 > 0:58:46will lose...It's been cut to £7,400 which is below...Higher than the
0:58:46 > 0:58:51threshold.Who knew statistics could be so fiercely argued over! LAUGHTER
0:58:51 > 0:58:53That's all for today.
0:58:53 > 0:58:56Thanks to our guests.
0:58:56 > 0:58:59Bye bye.