:00:28. > :00:36.to protect the countryside. Now it is time for Dateline London. Is
:00:36. > :00:46.there just a week to save the euro? Was this a good time for British
:00:46. > :00:55.
:00:55. > :00:59.public sector workers to go on strike? The leaders of the eurozone
:00:59. > :01:07.have been drinking in the last chance saloon for some time. It is
:01:07. > :01:12.a tricky moment for Nicolas Sarkozy and Angela Merkel. Yes and it is
:01:12. > :01:18.very much perceived in France as a roadshow between the two of them.
:01:18. > :01:24.But don't think we should be surprised that the Saab the two
:01:24. > :01:28.countries leading to guarantee the future of the European projects.
:01:28. > :01:33.They are the founding fathers of the whole thing. They come from
:01:33. > :01:38.different intellectual and philosophical standpoints in terms
:01:38. > :01:43.of state intervention. A lot of difficulties on the road to what
:01:43. > :01:48.appears to be fiscal union. They certainly have their differences
:01:48. > :01:58.and they are not agreeing on everything. But they come from the
:01:58. > :01:59.
:01:59. > :02:07.same perspective, presenting themselves as the saviour of the
:02:07. > :02:13.project. The meeting with David Cameron yesterday was downgraded to
:02:13. > :02:18.a working lunch and not much was discussed. David Cameron was
:02:18. > :02:23.sidelined and did not come across as a robust figure. Not like
:02:23. > :02:27.Margaret Thatcher was. She was capable of getting concessions to
:02:27. > :02:35.make sure that British interests were preserved. Cameron is not
:02:35. > :02:40.quite there. One thing which it appears the British government
:02:40. > :02:48.would like to talk for his first in the European Union, but not in the
:02:48. > :02:56.euro. I think they are in real trouble. I do not use its air taxi
:02:56. > :03:02.is easily, but I must say that the euro is dead. One of the founding
:03:02. > :03:12.fathers yesterday said it was defective from the very beginning.
:03:12. > :03:13.
:03:13. > :03:23.Thanks for telling us now. You're trying to combine so many different
:03:23. > :03:24.
:03:24. > :03:29.countries, like trying to have one currency in Africa. So it is
:03:29. > :03:39.completely irredeemable. I do not see how you will solve the problem
:03:39. > :03:39.
:03:39. > :03:49.of Greece or Portugal by trying to fix the euro. This is terminal. It
:03:49. > :03:51.
:03:51. > :04:01.is a complete failure. As an African... a man said to a long
:04:01. > :04:02.
:04:02. > :04:08.time ago that the economies of Europe and the West would collapse.
:04:08. > :04:17.We just need to get democracy. of the growth rates of African
:04:17. > :04:26.countries have been incredible. them just Crashgate and set up a
:04:26. > :04:34.new type. You can see the temptation of just wanting to crush
:04:34. > :04:42.it. The Deutschmark would be rising sky-high so they could not export
:04:42. > :04:48.any more. They can undercut Germany and other countries. But getting
:04:48. > :04:58.from where we are to them means crushing the entire world economy
:04:58. > :05:08.and virtually any band that holds any euros. It is unthinkable.
:05:08. > :05:11.
:05:11. > :05:21.we fail to understand sometimes is that Japan... some of the countries
:05:21. > :05:22.
:05:22. > :05:29.will be weaker and will have a very had time. You sound of the sanguine
:05:29. > :05:36.about the future of 400 million people. This is a situation of the
:05:36. > :05:40.unthinkable verses the unimaginable if the euro collapses. I made the
:05:40. > :05:45.European Union and don't know the way it works. I have seen it at
:05:45. > :05:51.work in other areas from diplomacy to political union. At the last
:05:51. > :05:56.minute they find a deal. This is something entirely different. It is
:05:56. > :06:03.not possible to conceive of what would happen to the world economy
:06:03. > :06:08.if this thing falls apart in the next 90 days to 120 days. There are
:06:08. > :06:14.players in the bond market who are trying to make that happen. It is
:06:14. > :06:23.both a cliche and an apt metaphor. On Friday at this summer and they
:06:23. > :06:29.have to present a proper plan as to how they will create... I have been
:06:29. > :06:36.writing this story for three months and I do not know how. There are
:06:36. > :06:42.two key players in the bond market. They like to hold sovereign debt
:06:42. > :06:48.because it is relatively safe. And then there are hedge funds, whose
:06:48. > :06:57.sole reason for existing is to churn the market. That has been
:06:57. > :07:06.working. And personally enriched themselves. In recent weeks people
:07:06. > :07:11.have been thinking that the euro will collapse. The big
:07:11. > :07:18.institutional players have parked their money elsewhere. They would
:07:18. > :07:26.like to go back to the euro because it does, in theory, make sense.
:07:26. > :07:31.Angela Merkel has not yet really spelled out to Harrad people... in
:07:31. > :07:37.Britain, we think the Germans will pay for rip, but they do not to
:07:37. > :07:43.think they should. Angela Merkel has not spelled out why they should.
:07:43. > :07:48.It is because they have been huge beneficiaries. If they had not been
:07:48. > :07:54.the euro, the Deutschmark would be sky high and they would not be able
:07:54. > :07:59.to exploit. Everywhere else is artificially low because of being
:07:59. > :08:03.tied to Greece and Portugal. She has failed to spell it out to her
:08:03. > :08:08.reign people that all they would be doing is putting in some of the
:08:08. > :08:13.money they have made out of it. is important to highlight that we
:08:13. > :08:23.have not heard any specifics on the plan to save the euro so far. In
:08:23. > :08:26.
:08:26. > :08:31.the Telegraph today we heard a plan... he said it in 1992. He has
:08:31. > :08:38.been a couldn't care less Statesman for a long time now. It is
:08:38. > :08:48.convenient to find a sympathetic ear with the Anglo-Saxon press at
:08:48. > :08:50.
:08:50. > :08:58.this time. The council within the capitalist economy of Europe.
:08:58. > :09:08.People forget one thing which many African academics have been talking
:09:08. > :09:09.
:09:09. > :09:16.about from the 1970s and 80s. One of the biggest pitfalls. This issue
:09:16. > :09:24.of the IMF, the World Bank. In Africa, they have themselves
:09:24. > :09:33.accepted that their prescriptions imposed on Africa were part of the
:09:33. > :09:42.problem. They are completely wrong now. When I see a man calling
:09:42. > :09:48.himself a doctor from the IMF for the World Bank coming to Africa...
:09:48. > :09:52.the Europeans have taken the IMF medicine in a big way. Now we know
:09:52. > :09:59.that that is the calamity. Nietzsche will austerity is mutual
:09:59. > :10:09.destruction. Then needs to be a reflection on how capitalist
:10:09. > :10:11.
:10:11. > :10:20.economies work. In the Anglo-Saxon world on both sides of the Atlantic
:10:20. > :10:23.everybody is beating up on Germany. But they do have a model. They have
:10:23. > :10:30.a social market economy that actually managed to absorb East
:10:30. > :10:34.Germany. An economy that fires on all cylinders. They should be
:10:35. > :10:43.saying, we actually know how to make capitalism work through the
:10:43. > :10:49.social market model. Perhaps they may want to try that. They are the
:10:49. > :10:54.making everybody has cut back on their public sector. That brings us
:10:54. > :11:01.beautifully to the subject that many of Britain's public sector
:11:01. > :11:05.workers went on strike this week. Was that at a sensible move? Will
:11:05. > :11:12.we see more our industrial unrest because of the dire financial
:11:12. > :11:17.circumstances ahead? I think it was sensible. I think they will find it
:11:17. > :11:24.difficult to do that much more. It was a pretty impressive display.
:11:24. > :11:31.When you see the way their pensions have been taken away and there were
:11:31. > :11:35.lies which have been told about the pensions situation. It is not on an
:11:35. > :11:40.unsustainable trajectory. It has peaked and the cost is coming down,
:11:40. > :11:47.not going up. They will be working much longer and paying more. For
:11:47. > :11:53.most of them, there is not a pension pot. When there are told to
:11:53. > :12:00.pay an extra 3%, it does not go into a pot. They will have a cut in
:12:00. > :12:06.their pay of 16%, much more than most people are going to suffer.
:12:06. > :12:16.Adam not think you can expect trade-union us to say: We do not
:12:16. > :12:21.
:12:21. > :12:29.like it but we will put up with it. I think he did end the arguments.
:12:29. > :12:35.And we have ten years of a austerity ahead of us, people say.
:12:35. > :12:39.The point that I raised is simply: Does this kind of gesture strike
:12:39. > :12:46.make a blind bit of difference? Other than making those who went on
:12:46. > :12:56.strike feel good? The Prime Minister called it a damp squib. It
:12:56. > :12:57.
:12:57. > :13:01.is that right? No, it is not. Many operations were postponed. And I
:13:01. > :13:07.don't know why he was so hot and bothered about it at Prime
:13:07. > :13:13.Minister's Question Time. He is usually very funny and witty, David
:13:13. > :13:22.Cameron, but at this week's Prime Minister's Questions he was not.
:13:22. > :13:25.And that means he was rattled. I think the austerity is so obviously
:13:25. > :13:29.self-defeating and ties back and a bad way with what is going on in
:13:29. > :13:35.the eurozone. I would like to think that rather than say it will be
:13:35. > :13:39.like this for six years or ten years, that some time in next 18
:13:39. > :13:46.months some politicians somewhere will finally get the courage to
:13:46. > :13:50.say: It simply does not work. Preferably someone working inside
:13:51. > :13:58.the Coalition and bring down the Coalition so we can have a proper
:13:58. > :14:03.election and bring in new policies which are not based on austerity.
:14:03. > :14:08.Is it a strike if it is just one day? I think it is impressive to
:14:08. > :14:13.see that many people taking to the streets. The real question is
:14:13. > :14:20.whether it will have an effect on the government. Probably not. It
:14:20. > :14:23.was perhaps a display of anger with no real consequences. Because we
:14:23. > :14:28.are talking about a generation which has been brought up on short-
:14:28. > :14:33.term contracts, individual contracts. There is no collective
:14:34. > :14:39.bargaining. In so many workplaces trade unions are not even
:14:39. > :14:49.recognised. It is difficult to get something out of government or even
:14:49. > :14:54.
:14:54. > :14:59.disrupt the country in an effective This division between what the
:14:59. > :15:05.public sector it gets and what the private sector gets, allegedly, the
:15:05. > :15:15.reeks and benefit of beach, do you think that is a sensible way to
:15:15. > :15:17.
:15:17. > :15:22.have a debate about the country? -- the risks and benefits of each.
:15:22. > :15:32.that strike important for society? That is one thing I admire about
:15:32. > :15:33.
:15:33. > :15:41.Britain. There is this wonderful freedom of people agreeing to go
:15:41. > :15:46.out there. We have talked about budget cuts and the Government
:15:46. > :15:51.shooting down people on this programme. We are demonstrating for
:15:51. > :16:01.our entire lives in terms of democracy and our rights to freedom.
:16:01. > :16:29.
:16:29. > :16:34.Some people... Leaving that aside. People are free to demonstrate and
:16:34. > :16:41.free to disagree. That is why you need to see that this is not only
:16:41. > :16:47.about tensions. That is minute. Look at the students' school fees.
:16:47. > :16:51.Look at lack of employment. We're going back to the 70s and 80s. This
:16:51. > :17:00.is nothing. They're talking about the stroke having been the biggest
:17:00. > :17:04.in a long period of time. -- the strike. The unions were not all
:17:04. > :17:12.that strong in the 70s in terms of numbers. But they are so much
:17:12. > :17:17.weaker now. They do not control important industries any more.
:17:17. > :17:25.talking about people, not unions. People want to come out and express
:17:25. > :17:28.themselves. There will be more and more anger. They were also talking
:17:28. > :17:35.about the distribution of the pay. It has been so unfair in this
:17:35. > :17:44.country. In the cuts that were made last week, for instance, the top
:17:44. > :17:49.ten % had a 3% cut and the bottom 30% had a 16% cut. Time and time
:17:49. > :17:53.again the richest have got away with paying least and the middle to
:17:53. > :18:01.bottom have been squeezed the hardest. After a bit people will
:18:01. > :18:08.really understand. When I raised the question about private and
:18:08. > :18:13.public sector, is because, if we follow the rhetoric of the
:18:13. > :18:19.coalition, we are all together, to divide people like this... It has
:18:19. > :18:25.been relaid. To say 65% of people in the private sector have no
:18:25. > :18:34.pension and also what are you complaining about? Most people have
:18:34. > :18:40.not got a penny of a pension. But the real division is that you
:18:40. > :18:46.cannot divide the public and private. The private sector depends
:18:46. > :18:50.totally on the public sector, and vice-versa. Whether it is for the
:18:50. > :18:59.roads they drive off for the security, the education of their
:18:59. > :19:04.staff, all of these are provided by the state. Their businesses depend
:19:04. > :19:08.on it. Look at Africa where failed states cannot conduct business
:19:08. > :19:15.because there is no security or infrastructure. You need a state to
:19:15. > :19:21.conduct of business. In terms of solutions you do not look at simple
:19:21. > :19:27.things. You look at the whole ideological trends and so on. In
:19:27. > :19:33.Africa we talk about democracy is - - democracy and the lack of it.
:19:33. > :19:42.They try to privatise and nothing words. Here, we're going back to
:19:42. > :19:47.the days of Margaret Thatcher. Total privatisation of this and
:19:47. > :19:53.that... That is part of the problem. People who are vulnerable are
:19:53. > :20:01.finding themselves with no support. Let's get back to the point about
:20:01. > :20:08.endstage capitalism. 35 years ago the idea was that somehow the
:20:08. > :20:12.public sector was crowding out the private sector. That is not true.
:20:12. > :20:17.We would have mass unemployment if we relied on the private sector to
:20:17. > :20:22.employ people. They have been shipping jobs away from Europe and
:20:22. > :20:25.America into a low wage economies. The public sector is a necessary
:20:25. > :20:31.part of the overall employment picture. Hence the consumption
:20:31. > :20:35.patterns. Let's move on. The Iranian government said it was
:20:35. > :20:45.students who invaded the British embassy in Tehran. The result has
:20:45. > :20:48.
:20:48. > :20:55.been the removal of all Iranian diplomats from the UK. It is
:20:56. > :21:01.difficult times. Does this mean any change in the relationship?
:21:01. > :21:10.understand what is happening in Iran, everybody should go to the
:21:10. > :21:19.BBC.Not here to advertise but we love it. There is a wonderful
:21:19. > :21:29.article on the BBC website. The writer puts things in a historical
:21:29. > :21:30.
:21:30. > :21:36.context and goes back to the 19th century when you had the Rosso
:21:36. > :21:46.Iranian war. The British always played a part to make sure the
:21:46. > :21:48.
:21:48. > :21:52.Iranians lost. And then later a British general came to help impose
:21:53. > :22:02.the rain. Then later there was a coup when the British ask the
:22:03. > :22:03.
:22:03. > :22:08.Americans. The British were losing their oil concessions. This is so
:22:08. > :22:13.interesting because it means the Iranians have always been aggrieved
:22:13. > :22:20.about the British. Anything British they see as with great suspicion.
:22:21. > :22:29.It is also a love-hate relationship. There is suspicion. Every British
:22:29. > :22:34.diplomat his face by and that sort of stuff. -- is a spy. Crisis
:22:34. > :22:38.between Iran and Britain are periodic. They go on and on with
:22:38. > :22:46.the two countries not being able to reconcile their differences. It
:22:46. > :22:54.shows a second -- it shows the weak foundations that the relationship
:22:54. > :23:04.is built on. This latest attack is essentially an attack on British
:23:04. > :23:06.
:23:06. > :23:12.soil. We heard the interview with the former ambassador to Tehran, he
:23:12. > :23:17.described in portrait of Queen -- of the Queen being destroyed.
:23:17. > :23:24.is a really tricky time. Britain and America and the West seems to
:23:24. > :23:31.be have to be extraordinarily cautious. Iran is a rocky state
:23:31. > :23:35.with a lot of internal conflict. It is afraid by what it is seen in the
:23:35. > :23:39.countries around it. We must do nothing that helps them say, let's
:23:39. > :23:48.have a foreign war. Let's identify our enemies as being Israel,
:23:48. > :23:55.America and Britain. I think we have got to behave with incredible
:23:55. > :24:05.caution, dignity, sanctions, yes, but not giving them opportunity to
:24:05. > :24:10.say, we have got to pull together against the foreign enemy. I am
:24:10. > :24:14.very happy to be a journalist and not a diplomat. The regime enjoys
:24:15. > :24:18.playing games with the West. Whenever they are under internal
:24:18. > :24:22.pressure they have a number of levers they can pall. Sorry to
:24:22. > :24:25.interrupt but it was said to me by a British diplomat that Saddam
:24:25. > :24:29.Hussein's problem was that he would come to the brink and would not
:24:29. > :24:33.change until the got to the brink but he did not quite know where the
:24:33. > :24:39.Prince was. The British worry about Iran is that the same thing could
:24:39. > :24:49.happen. -- where the drink was. There is virtually no Western press
:24:49. > :24:55.
:24:55. > :24:58.there. Iranians still come to West. They have Western interests. We
:24:58. > :25:04.have graduate students going over the wall of the British embassy.
:25:04. > :25:07.Who controls them? With which factions? We do not know. We know
:25:07. > :25:12.that in this immediate situation you have got the west on the one
:25:12. > :25:17.hand trying to isolate, isolate, isolate, maybe even get oil
:25:17. > :25:26.sanctions. Then you have got China. China gets a lot of its energy from
:25:26. > :25:30.Iran. Today's China Daily says it seems the US and European countries
:25:30. > :25:37.are driven by impulse instead of rationality in their relationship
:25:37. > :25:47.with Iran. All parties need to calm down. That is from the coming power
:25:47. > :25:51.
:25:51. > :25:56.of the century. That is not a bad message. The problem with this,
:25:56. > :26:02.what needs to happen is if Britain wants to change things in Iran or