:00:27. > :00:33.residential areas. Now on BBC News it's time for Dateline London.
:00:33. > :00:42.Welcome to a special edition do that it took an area of the world
:00:42. > :00:52.which we cover up to really. Africa. We will discuss everything from
:00:52. > :00:58.
:00:58. > :01:07.wars, at government and corruption to the impact of the Arab Spring.
:01:07. > :01:12.My guests are gay up from Zimbabwe, Uganda, a Sudanese writer working
:01:13. > :01:22.in London and a reporter for that day e-mail. I want to ask each of
:01:23. > :01:24.
:01:24. > :01:34.our -- and our guests to you offer up something good. There is no-one
:01:34. > :01:34.
:01:34. > :01:43.good thing. I will take you a few. One is that date line is covering
:01:43. > :01:49.London. But, to be serious - Africa is the most beautiful Continent. A
:01:49. > :01:56.say this unashamedly. You cannot compare. Many British are coming to
:01:56. > :02:06.my country to seek a realist etcetera. It is a beautiful thing.
:02:06. > :02:11.Secondly, the Arab world does not have all the oil and be resources.
:02:11. > :02:19.Africa is a rich company that is not yet exploiter. Thirdly, the
:02:19. > :02:29.people. African people are very good people. We forget one thing.
:02:29. > :02:29.
:02:29. > :02:38.You need to get to my village in eastern Uganda and see the people -
:02:38. > :02:48.the elderly women. Their hospitality is astonishing. They
:02:48. > :02:57.keep everything - the last crumbs of bread. We have had you talking
:02:58. > :03:04.about the bad news in Zimbabwe for years. Talas about the good news.
:03:04. > :03:09.got a phone call from a young child in Harare who is a spoken-word
:03:09. > :03:17.performer. That has become very popular. For the first time I heard
:03:17. > :03:25.a piece in my native language. It's just reminded me how creative and
:03:25. > :03:34.spiritual Zimbabweans can be. This was a 12-year-old kid. It was
:03:34. > :03:38.Shakespeare, from two Gentlemen of Verona, in London. A mention shakes
:03:38. > :03:45.being in my native language. ID checks being in school in and apart
:03:45. > :03:52.by a country. So, the reversal was also a beautiful. Despite all the
:03:52. > :03:59.problems Zimbabwe has based, there is a lot being created by kids in
:03:59. > :04:04.the bedrooms on computers, writing songs and poetry. There remain
:04:04. > :04:09.happy, create it and resilient. That's it makes me quite happy.
:04:09. > :04:19.will get on to some of the problems in Sudan and a moment. Taylor has
:04:19. > :04:19.
:04:19. > :04:25.some good things. The South Sudanese Shakespeare's play was but
:04:25. > :04:32.found in a type of Arabic which is a pigeon Arabic version. -- was
:04:32. > :04:42.performed. I was very proud of that. I will pan out t the economy.
:04:42. > :04:46.
:04:46. > :04:54.Private equity investments in Africa - they are experience in a
:04:54. > :05:00.huge amount of interest, especially from Middle Eastern investors. That
:05:00. > :05:08.is back to pre-recession days of 5.5 %. People at the investing in
:05:08. > :05:16.infrastructure in West Africa and Nigeria with huge returns. Land is
:05:16. > :05:23.also of interest to private equity investors. China has huge interest.
:05:23. > :05:32.Economic week the is a' economic story it of great interest. I know
:05:32. > :05:39.that music is one of your hobbies. Africa had great other artists in
:05:39. > :05:46.the conga in the 60s. Also, eight and from Nigeria is about to have a
:05:46. > :05:50.number one hit at the moment. An American private investment has
:05:50. > :06:00.launched a fund last week which concentrates, not on Africa,
:06:00. > :06:01.
:06:01. > :06:06.because we know it is growing so fast - but in Ethiopia. That is
:06:06. > :06:12.totemic of the speed of change at American investment has to focus
:06:12. > :06:21.just on Ethiopia, the country which was seen as the ultimate African
:06:21. > :06:26.basket case. But in fact it is growing so fast. One more thing - a
:06:26. > :06:32.fantastic report last week which is allied to these speed of economic
:06:32. > :06:39.change and progress. The rate of deaths in children under five in
:06:39. > :06:49.Africa is plummeting in some countries. 9.9 % in Senegal and an
:06:49. > :06:59.average of 5% across the Continent in just tip years. Let's move on to
:06:59. > :07:02.
:07:02. > :07:10.some of there is good news. -- some of the not-so-good news. In Darfur
:07:10. > :07:17.and Sudan there is fighting. Natural resources are at stake. Can
:07:17. > :07:22.anything be done to bring peace TEC an its neighbours. There macaws and
:07:22. > :07:27.much optimism when the Salsa seeded. It was overwhelmingly peaceful and
:07:27. > :07:32.everyone thought it was a transcendental moment. You never
:07:32. > :07:39.see a peaceful separation. But since, there has been conflict over
:07:39. > :07:48.oil revenue and audit this abuse. This is because the original
:07:48. > :07:54.agreement is fundamentally flawed. The secession Wallace born in
:07:54. > :07:59.original sin, said his beat. Now what we see are the Ghosts of the
:07:59. > :08:05.flaws coming back to what the countries. There are certain border
:08:05. > :08:11.disputes that were not addressed and the mechanism was not easy to
:08:11. > :08:16.follow through. The government of South Sudan has been problematic,
:08:16. > :08:26.and it will impossible stomp in trying to negotiate with the
:08:26. > :08:29.
:08:29. > :08:36.government of Sudan it has had problems, especially with Heglig.
:08:36. > :08:42.It was seized by South Sudan. I was there when it happened and it
:08:42. > :08:49.generated a huge amount of make it and is so students sentiment. It
:08:49. > :08:59.was war between the two countries for two or three weeks. -- negative
:08:59. > :09:05.South Sudan sentiment. It destroyed a lot of the facilities. So a lot
:09:05. > :09:12.of bad blood has been generated. The problem is now, how do we move?
:09:12. > :09:18.That is the problem. How do you address conflict in Africa?
:09:18. > :09:22.Ultimately it has to be an internal solution because you cannot impose
:09:22. > :09:29.subbing from outside. The first thing to do is recognise that there
:09:29. > :09:35.is a problem. Monet was a beacon of stability for 20 years and in the
:09:35. > :09:40.last few months a tragedy has unfolded way you had an almost
:09:40. > :09:50.accidental cook an now you have remiss of militant groups involving
:09:50. > :09:55.kidnapping and Sharia law being imposed on the Tuareg. Mali Foster
:09:55. > :10:00.first, acknowledged there is a problem and then do everything to
:10:00. > :10:07.calm the situation. There have been talking of people in the south as
:10:07. > :10:11.insect, which is a chilling echo of past tragedies in Africa. The
:10:11. > :10:15.outside world can try to cool things down, stop the war to begin
:10:15. > :10:21.with and tell people to negotiate settlements. That's one of the
:10:21. > :10:28.things we wanted to do in this programme - say to people not wait
:10:28. > :10:38.until Macy pictures of children bombed and starving. To something
:10:38. > :10:42.
:10:42. > :10:46.out. Where we see in Sudan something that could break up. I
:10:46. > :10:56.think win the Sudanese explosion happens it may even overshadow the
:10:56. > :10:59.
:11:00. > :11:05.Congo. I come from Uganda and we are preparing. The international
:11:05. > :11:11.community, the UN are not addressing this issue and the right
:11:11. > :11:21.way. What I know from my own sources - and I have been trying to
:11:21. > :11:29.
:11:29. > :11:33.tell people - there has been a question of what will happen after
:11:33. > :11:43.independence. This story of American special forces chasing
:11:43. > :11:48.
:11:48. > :11:53.just economy is just a diversion everything. Joseph Conti. We will
:11:53. > :11:59.have to work with our Partners and fight this war. You raise the point
:11:59. > :12:05.about the great riches of Africa. Is that part of because? It was the
:12:05. > :12:09.case in the Congo. There is is very true. We know that the Americans
:12:09. > :12:17.are trying to shoot from the Middle East and it is problematic for oil
:12:17. > :12:25.etc. They have come to Africa. There is oil in South Sudan. We
:12:25. > :12:30.know very well from there is to be of strategic geopolitical
:12:30. > :12:36.concessions of the West that the military are the constant. The
:12:36. > :12:43.Americans are starting to deploy specifically t make America be able
:12:43. > :12:50.to oversee these resources. problem is that I think resources
:12:50. > :12:54.that are required by many countries are becoming more scarce. What
:12:54. > :13:00.solutions can you really bring when people decide, for example the
:13:00. > :13:06.Sudanese example - there were accused Asian as to who actually
:13:06. > :13:14.bomb the oil pipeline. That was producing 95% of the income of
:13:14. > :13:19.South Sudan. I think that the nations which rely on resources
:13:19. > :13:24.like coiled need to stop selling guns to African countries and the
:13:24. > :13:30.UN needs to play a greater role. They are you only neutral body
:13:30. > :13:36.which can go in without being accused of having any agenda.
:13:36. > :13:42.see this developing? A vital piece now is to talk to the government in
:13:42. > :13:47.Sudan in the north. It is so isolated at the moment. The
:13:47. > :13:51.government in this up as being given the virtue of the victim.
:13:51. > :13:57.South Sudanese have been victimised for too long. They now have their
:13:57. > :14:01.own country. But it is a new country and there are being a
:14:01. > :14:06.little irresponsible in the dealings with the North. This is
:14:06. > :14:13.not to absolve the government of Sudan, but they have no leverage
:14:13. > :14:19.now. Because they have no friends. Exactly. Their enemies have
:14:19. > :14:25.completely alienated them. The system of ostracise session of
:14:25. > :14:31.governments has backfired entirely. When it comes to Darfur and the ICC
:14:32. > :14:39.indictment or you get out is censure. And condemnation. You need
:14:39. > :14:44.to get these people talking. carrot as well as a stick. Yes.
:14:45. > :14:48.Every time I go back the government in the north is further isolate it
:14:48. > :14:58.from the international community and unable to engage because there
:14:58. > :15:06.
:15:06. > :15:13.There are at two sources. The oil and the areas in this it. -- in
:15:13. > :15:19.dispute. What we need from the international community is the same
:15:19. > :15:26.steps that we are taking with it Syria. But that hive of
:15:26. > :15:30.intervention is not happening in Sudan. The kind of tension that
:15:30. > :15:36.people give to conflicts in Africa is a very one-sided. They will only
:15:36. > :15:43.pay attention if it is ethnic cleansing or genocide. If it does
:15:43. > :15:48.not look quite fact, nobody is interested. It is likely racist.
:15:48. > :15:56.There cannot be complicated conflicts in Africa. They have to
:15:56. > :16:04.be ethnicities killing each other. Time to pick up on these themes.
:16:04. > :16:09.The Arabs run began in Africa. Egypt, Tunisia, Libya. Governments
:16:09. > :16:14.that have failed to give democracy and prosperity to countries that
:16:14. > :16:21.could be quite wealthy. What could be done to discourage corruption
:16:21. > :16:26.and encourage democracy? It will be a long time before you see that
:16:26. > :16:31.happening in Africa. A lot of readers are struggling to create
:16:31. > :16:38.modern democracies. There are also trying to hold on to traditional
:16:38. > :16:48.bullies. The belief in witchcraft, for example. It is still
:16:48. > :16:48.
:16:48. > :16:55.problematic in many areas of Africa. In Eastern son of way a woman said
:16:55. > :17:04.she had discovered in diesel fuel in the rocks. -- Zimbabwe. Readers
:17:04. > :17:10.travel to see this traditional Warman. -- woman. People still
:17:10. > :17:20.believe in these cultural traditions. They do not match up
:17:20. > :17:26.
:17:26. > :17:33.with democracy. There is a profit who has been given a lot of press
:17:33. > :17:43.in Malawi because he predicted the death of the President. It does not
:17:43. > :17:43.
:17:43. > :17:49.work. We have to let go of some of these things. Do you share that?
:17:49. > :17:56.would discard the idea that Africa is not ready for change. That
:17:56. > :18:05.people do not know they can change. The largest success story around
:18:05. > :18:15.this time is that the people have woken up. I love to give my example
:18:15. > :18:18.
:18:18. > :18:22.where I come from. We have had a war as a new gunner. -- Uganda.
:18:22. > :18:32.People are struggling and demonstrating and protesting day by
:18:32. > :18:36.
:18:36. > :18:44.day. One of the little moments that demonstrates this is how women are
:18:44. > :18:54.part of this movement. One of the things that trended around the
:18:54. > :19:03.world is when a woman leader was protesting and a policeman came up
:19:03. > :19:10.and arrested her. He dehumanisation is much worse than the shootings
:19:10. > :19:20.that have been happening. There is something new that is happening
:19:20. > :19:30.across Africa. Whether these Arab Spring countries will succeed, I am
:19:30. > :19:31.
:19:31. > :19:38.not interested. But it has given an opportunity for people in Africa.
:19:38. > :19:48.They can wake up and demand their freedom. I have room with a lot of
:19:48. > :19:51.
:19:52. > :19:57.that. We also saw that in Senegal. You saw musicians and these groups.
:19:57. > :20:07.They made sure that it President could not stay on and a bypass the
:20:07. > :20:13.democratic process. There will be quite a fast change in Africa. The
:20:13. > :20:21.West likes to say, look at those horrible, corrupt Africans. Every
:20:21. > :20:26.time a leader falls, where are they put in their money? The same
:20:26. > :20:36.happens in France and America. The West is so Kohl of will in the
:20:36. > :20:42.corruption of these leaders. -- Cole full well. It also feels the
:20:42. > :20:46.idea of dependency. Governments failing to meet their
:20:46. > :20:53.responsibilities in terms of providing education. Those things
:20:53. > :20:58.have been done by foreign agencies. A lot of money has been put into
:20:58. > :21:05.making hospitals. These governments feel that they do not have the
:21:05. > :21:15.responsibility. Even worse is the happiness of Western countries to
:21:15. > :21:16.
:21:16. > :21:26.hand money to some of the worst people in the world. The West are
:21:26. > :21:27.
:21:27. > :21:33.financing and arming dictators. They are the ones. If America and
:21:33. > :21:38.Britons were not supporting dictators, these mass uprisings
:21:38. > :21:44.could work. There is some distinction could be made between
:21:44. > :21:54.certain African countries and Arab countries. Sudan in particular.
:21:54. > :21:57.
:21:57. > :22:04.People have been saying that it is next. It has not happened. The
:22:04. > :22:12.reason is, I spoke to a diplomat about this, is because Sudan sees
:22:12. > :22:17.stability as a virtue. We have had a lot of popular uprisings. There
:22:17. > :22:27.has not been an out-and-out war between the north and south. There
:22:27. > :22:29.
:22:29. > :22:36.is debility. -- stability. I see the virtues of stability. People
:22:36. > :22:44.are tired of instability. They are afraid that once the foundations of
:22:44. > :22:53.government have been laid that they will be up written. There also has
:22:53. > :23:02.been a slow, hesitant march of democracy. Some of them are real
:23:02. > :23:11.democracies. When you get now to -- a democratic process, that is a
:23:11. > :23:18.step forward. The next generation of leaders will be most likely
:23:18. > :23:27.educated outside of their countries. They are bringing back a sense of
:23:27. > :23:31.wanting that democracy. We have got a couple of minutes left. A
:23:31. > :23:40.diplomat said that the worst thing that happens with journalism is
:23:40. > :23:48.that they present it as hopeless. What can we as journalists and
:23:48. > :23:55.reporters do to change that perception? I would not want to go
:23:55. > :24:03.in that direction. There are all these good things I have talked
:24:03. > :24:13.about. But I can tell you, I have stayed out of my country half of my
:24:13. > :24:18.
:24:18. > :24:25.life. I was 18 when I left. I am anxious to see change come. I have
:24:25. > :24:35.transformed myself from a laissez faire journalist into a revolution
:24:35. > :24:37.
:24:38. > :24:44.area. I think we should find those human stories that ten to look at
:24:44. > :24:50.the larger picture. We tend to focus on the larger politics, but
:24:50. > :24:56.less on how it affects the people. We need to look at the human
:24:56. > :25:03.stories. What would sell to a British audience? There is growing
:25:03. > :25:09.interest. But you have one Correspondent covering an entire
:25:09. > :25:18.Continent. It is hard to do that. There is too much reliance on the
:25:18. > :25:28.aid agencies for you get tedious impressions that the hall -- Hall,
:25:28. > :25:31.