:00:26. > :00:29.I will be back with a news bulletin Welcome to Dateline London. Strange
:00:30. > :00:34.use about rate from both sides of the Atlantic. Greece asks for more
:00:34. > :00:39.time again, and if you edited a newspaper which you published
:00:39. > :00:42.photographs of naked Prince Harry? My guests are Mina Al-Oraibi of
:00:42. > :00:44.Asharq Alawsat, Maria Margaronis of The Nation, Anthony Faiola of the
:00:44. > :00:48.Washington Post and Ned Temko of the Observer.
:00:48. > :00:52.Good to see you. Supporters of WikiLeaks founder
:00:52. > :00:55.Julian Assange, who is wanted in Sweden connected with the rate
:00:55. > :00:57.investigation claimed there is a conspiracy to send him to the
:00:57. > :01:01.United States, but they may not have helped their cause when the MP
:01:01. > :01:11.George Galloway described what happened nearly as bad sexual lead
:01:11. > :01:15.
:01:15. > :01:17.the -- bad sexual etiquette. In the United States Todd Akin who is the
:01:17. > :01:20.Republican candidate for the US Senate in Missouri said women who
:01:20. > :01:26.were the victims of what he called legitimate rate could not get
:01:26. > :01:33.pregnant. Were you shocked by some of these comments? Both comments.
:01:33. > :01:37.It has happened in one week, and two representatives of the people.
:01:37. > :01:42.George Galloway is an MP in the UK, and both of them came out with
:01:42. > :01:49.these opinions, or only clarifying that they misspoke or were
:01:49. > :01:54.misunderstood because there was uproar. The reality is that women
:01:54. > :02:01.are used for political gains, and the fact that Galloway was using
:02:01. > :02:04.the issue of rate to defend Julian Assange because he believes in his
:02:04. > :02:09.views regarding the US and other issues, nothing to do with women,
:02:09. > :02:17.it is the victims who are the women who are being ignored. It was the
:02:17. > :02:22.same thing with Todd Akin. He is running a Senate race, and victims
:02:22. > :02:29.of rate are being misunderstood. open ups -- it opens up the culture
:02:29. > :02:38.context, because going back to the 60s, going back to the marriage and
:02:38. > :02:45.homosexuality has become a really hot issue. Yes, Todd Akin handed
:02:45. > :02:55.the Democrats' new ammunition with the view that the republics were
:02:55. > :03:02.
:03:02. > :03:05.The Republicans are banking on the fact that there are some women out
:03:05. > :03:08.there who are religiously minded enough to back them in the United
:03:08. > :03:11.States, and there is no question that there are some of them out
:03:11. > :03:16.there, but at the same time we have to wonder whether or not
:03:16. > :03:19.independent voters that they have to cultivate are going to buy into
:03:19. > :03:29.the democratic argument that you have a bunch of guys out there with
:03:29. > :03:31.
:03:31. > :03:37.medieval thinking about women's bodies. Because Mitt Romney was so-
:03:37. > :03:40.called pro choice and is now so- called pro-life and is seen as a
:03:40. > :03:45.flip-flop to some Conservatives has become an issue in the party itself.
:03:45. > :03:53.Absolutely. It is one reason that you seek him there because they
:03:53. > :03:57.want to lend the idea of fiscal conservatism. We also see Ryan's
:03:57. > :04:07.position on abortion, he would support a constitutional amendment
:04:07. > :04:07.
:04:07. > :04:17.against abortion with exception to victims of rate. -- rate For stop
:04:17. > :04:19.
:04:19. > :04:25.There is a real difference between Todd Akin and Ryan. It is important
:04:25. > :04:32.to emphasise that Rhine shares his views on rate which are used on
:04:32. > :04:40.abortion. They are very different from George Galloway, who is an art.
:04:40. > :04:47.-- a nut. He is a respected member of parliament! But when you see him
:04:47. > :04:57.on big brother and a cat suit, you cannot take him seriously! It was
:04:57. > :05:00.
:05:00. > :05:03.the most bizarre thing I have seen, when he was talking about insertion.
:05:03. > :05:08.There are views that are extremely destructive to women, and pushing
:05:08. > :05:12.his agenda more and more. At the last presidential election, gay
:05:12. > :05:16.marriage was the issue that was used to rally the troops, and it
:05:16. > :05:23.seems to be abortionist in. marriage is also an issue in this
:05:24. > :05:29.election. Are you surprised by these comments and how they have
:05:29. > :05:34.been represented? I am surprised in that they are a wake-up call, a
:05:34. > :05:40.reminder that what we thought was steady and significant progress in
:05:40. > :05:47.the way we define women's issues, rate, sexual assault, over a period
:05:47. > :05:57.of decades now, is not something we take for granted. -- rate. These
:05:57. > :06:07.are medieval comments, the notion that toddy can raise this bizarre
:06:07. > :06:08.
:06:08. > :06:18.notion of legitimate rate, but also this consent that woman's body shut
:06:18. > :06:22.
:06:22. > :06:27.down and you cannot get pregnant if You are right to raise the
:06:27. > :06:31.political issue of this kind of social issue, and one of the
:06:31. > :06:35.interesting things is that it is a risk for the Republicans because
:06:35. > :06:40.national opinion poles show that on some of the social issues there
:06:40. > :06:50.really is a kind of culture war. When you ask people, are you in
:06:50. > :06:51.
:06:51. > :06:55.favour of a blanket ban on abortion, a sizable majority of Americans say
:06:55. > :06:59.basically no, they are not on the side of Todd Akin or Paul Ryan.
:06:59. > :07:07.What do you make on the political issue on this side of the Atlantic,
:07:07. > :07:16.the Julian Assange case? He faces a real threat of extradition to the
:07:16. > :07:20.United States, and we have seen over the past decade American
:07:20. > :07:24.behaviour in Iraq that contributes to the idea that he is just one
:07:24. > :07:30.dirty trick away from ending up in the equivalent of Guantanamo Bay.
:07:30. > :07:40.That argument has to be taken seed Esler. I think so. It is quite
:07:40. > :07:42.
:07:42. > :07:47.clear -- taken seriously. As we were saying earlier, he is a public
:07:47. > :07:52.figure, and biscuits all the attention. If the US could shut
:07:52. > :07:58.down WikiLeaks, they could, and they have not tried to hide that.
:07:58. > :08:06.The fact that Bradley Manning is still somewhere and no one knows
:08:06. > :08:09.what is happening to him should be addressed. I think if he was going
:08:09. > :08:12.to get extradited it would probably happen from the UK more than it
:08:12. > :08:16.would happen from Sweden. It is interesting that he feels he would
:08:16. > :08:26.be safer, even though he is in the wicked -- Ecuadorian embassy, but
:08:26. > :08:30.before that he fled Sweden. One us and -- 1 Julian Assange reporter
:08:30. > :08:35.says that Sweden would do the same, which is effectively what they are
:08:36. > :08:39.arguing. We are clear on where we stand with regards to expedition,
:08:39. > :08:42.and this case has nothing to do with WikiLeaks, so I think the
:08:42. > :08:47.Swedish legal system has shown that it is quite strong and that it
:08:47. > :08:54.would be about this case. However, once he went back and faced court,
:08:54. > :08:58.what would happen afterwards if he was put in prison? How is this
:08:58. > :09:01.playing in the United States? It is pretty obvious that the
:09:01. > :09:05.administration might be quite quiet at the moment. But they would like
:09:05. > :09:09.to be Julian Assange on trial, wouldn't they? At the moment we do
:09:09. > :09:16.not know what the US intentions are. There are allegations that there
:09:16. > :09:20.was a sealed indictments somewhere that has not been released. It
:09:20. > :09:27.would be much easier for Julian Assange to be extradited from the
:09:27. > :09:33.UK than Sweden. There are exceptions in Swedish law, made for
:09:33. > :09:41.asylum seekers that are seeking to evade political persecution that do
:09:41. > :09:51.not exist in the same context in the UK. Julian Assange may not have
:09:51. > :09:51.
:09:51. > :10:01.helped himself necessarily. This is the same government that has been
:10:01. > :10:02.
:10:02. > :10:06.persecuting the media since they came into power. To that extent, I
:10:06. > :10:11.think it is hard to see him as too much of a sympathetic figure.
:10:11. > :10:21.any of this damage WikiLeaks? When you have one of the figures
:10:21. > :10:21.
:10:21. > :10:27.involved in it, facing an investigation like this. Does it
:10:27. > :10:33.damage WikiLeaks? I do not think so. It may be better off without Julian
:10:33. > :10:37.Assange. It has been doing his work quietly without Julian Assange's
:10:37. > :10:41.presents causing more publicity. I do also have some sympathy with him
:10:41. > :10:48.on the extradition issue. It may be politically more difficult for
:10:48. > :10:53.Britain to extradite him and Sweden. The sense of Britain having to be
:10:53. > :11:00.the poodle of the US makes it more difficult to do that. It would be
:11:00. > :11:09.excruciatingly difficult for either country to extradite him. I think
:11:09. > :11:19.one of the problems is that we forget that he has gone through not
:11:19. > :11:25.
:11:25. > :11:30.one but several processes of Appeal in this country. He chose to come
:11:30. > :11:37.to the United Kingdom, and that is what extradition has four. There
:11:37. > :11:42.are two very separate issues. -- that is what it tradition is for.
:11:42. > :11:47.There is also legislation that makes it impossible for either
:11:47. > :11:52.Sweden or Britain to extradite him if it is on an offence that carries
:11:52. > :11:57.the death penalty. It is not a black and white issue. Let us move
:11:57. > :12:01.on. Greece wants more time to get his finances in order, because many
:12:01. > :12:05.economists believe the country cannot do what is demanded of it in
:12:05. > :12:15.the timescale imposed. Germany has resolute that Greece has to do as
:12:15. > :12:19.
:12:19. > :12:27.First of all, it must be miserable, even in this wonderful summer
:12:27. > :12:32.increase. It has been a rough summer. There has been a lot less
:12:32. > :12:37.internal tourism. Things get worse and worse and worse. The prospect
:12:37. > :12:41.of further cuts, further pension cuts, further pay cuts is
:12:42. > :12:47.devastating to people. I do not know anybody any more increase who
:12:47. > :12:51.is not in some kind of difficulty. He their run a very slippery slope
:12:51. > :12:54.downwards. I do not think anything is going to happen next very
:12:54. > :13:02.quickly, because I think this meeting was a lot of window
:13:02. > :13:05.dressing. He had to go and say he was negotiating agreement because
:13:05. > :13:12.that was a platform on which he was elected. He will have to push
:13:12. > :13:16.through these cuts and Parliament. 11 billion euros of cuts, with
:13:16. > :13:21.opposition and a lot of unrest on the streets probably. Angela Merkel
:13:21. > :13:25.has to walk the tightrope between trying to serve -- save the
:13:25. > :13:30.eurozone. Her coalition partners are flatly opposed to giving any
:13:30. > :13:35.more help to Greece. This has become a political test in Germany
:13:35. > :13:39.and Greece has to stand for Germany's role in the Eurozone.
:13:39. > :13:44.This is not about grace any more, it is about Spain and Italy and
:13:44. > :13:51.tried to come up with some way to save the leaky ship. This meeting
:13:51. > :13:58.was about this morning, it was about creating that and this
:13:58. > :14:03.postponement has consequences for the Greeks. I have talked to lots
:14:03. > :14:08.of people and a very Economist has a different view, but there is one
:14:08. > :14:12.view that this is an essentially a political problem. Economic
:14:13. > :14:17.solution is obvious, because Greece cannot do this, so crease were
:14:17. > :14:22.going to default but stayed within the euro. Angela Merkel can say to
:14:22. > :14:28.stuff, but we have to face the inevitable and the Greeks will end
:14:28. > :14:32.up staying within the euro, and given softer terms. Does that seem
:14:32. > :14:37.like a possible way forward, which would mean we would not have to
:14:37. > :14:40.talk about the separate three months? It seems that one possible
:14:40. > :14:45.way forward and sadly not the best one, but one of the more likely
:14:45. > :14:50.once. One of the interesting things about her conversations on this
:14:50. > :14:54.programme about it is the realities have not changed. We're just in a
:14:54. > :15:04.new game of chicken. The factors once the euro got into trouble, at
:15:04. > :15:05.
:15:05. > :15:08.some stage in order to reassure the market, Germany and the European
:15:08. > :15:13.Central Bank could have said at any stage, we're going to take a huge
:15:13. > :15:18.amount of money. The eurozone is a eurozone and we will guarantee the
:15:18. > :15:24.debt. It is politics that made it impossible for them to do that, but
:15:24. > :15:28.one of the problems is, by delaying it, and you're right we will just
:15:28. > :15:33.go to another crisis, it gets more expensive and does not change the
:15:33. > :15:38.fact that is only one way it of this. That is, unless Greece and
:15:38. > :15:44.possibly Italy, Spain and Portugal leave the eurozone, at some stage,
:15:44. > :15:48.credibly with the markets, the European Central Bank and the
:15:48. > :15:55.Germans have to say, we stand behind the single currency. If they
:15:55. > :16:00.do, it works, if they don't, it doesn't. That's was something that
:16:00. > :16:06.came out of the meeting, Angela Merkel saying, we want Croesus in
:16:06. > :16:14.the eurozone. OK, you keep talking the talk, and walk the walk. After
:16:14. > :16:24.the elections in Greece, there was some time later out that the
:16:24. > :16:28.
:16:28. > :16:31.problems of the economy did not go away. Looked at from the United
:16:31. > :16:39.States, Barack Obama will probably have to wait until the middle of
:16:39. > :16:42.November or even longer. Add the US looks at the problems of Europe and
:16:42. > :16:47.is somewhat mystified by the bureaucracy involved in trying to
:16:47. > :16:52.solve this problem. The fact we're here time and time again. The truth
:16:52. > :16:56.is, I think there is a lot of under estimation in the USA of just how
:16:56. > :17:02.truthful Angela Merkel is being when she says she would like used
:17:02. > :17:07.to say in the eurozone. The euro at its core is as much a political
:17:07. > :17:10.scene as it is an economic union. It is about bringing together these
:17:10. > :17:13.countries that have a history of conflict, uniting them and bringing
:17:14. > :17:19.them forward. The Germans in particular have an interest in
:17:19. > :17:23.making sure that holds together. Of course there is always a cost of
:17:23. > :17:30.you have to weigh those costs, that is what Germany is doing, but you
:17:30. > :17:33.cannot underestimate their desire to United 1. The one thing that has
:17:33. > :17:38.been consistent in the last three years is what Angela Merkel has
:17:38. > :17:44.said. She has not shifted on anything. Given our readers around
:17:44. > :17:47.the world change of use, it is refreshing.
:17:47. > :17:50.Prince Harry was photographed naked in an American hotel suite and the
:17:50. > :17:54.pictures are on the internet for anyone who cares to look. So is it
:17:54. > :17:57.a bit daft for some newspapers NOT to publish them? Is it a privacy
:17:57. > :17:59.issue and they should not be published? And a third possibility
:17:59. > :18:03.- who cares? Some people just do not care about this. Other people
:18:03. > :18:10.are very amused. The newspapers have been engaged in a debate about
:18:10. > :18:15.publishing are not publishing. And the Observer? I am not in that role
:18:15. > :18:21.at the Observer. But I did edit a British newspaper, the Jewish
:18:21. > :18:25.Chronicle for years. I would have published them, perhaps with a
:18:25. > :18:31.circumcision, but there are two separate issues here. One a
:18:31. > :18:39.personal level, I take option three, who cares? I think it raises a
:18:39. > :18:44.press issue. Even before were Lord Justice love us and started looking
:18:44. > :18:49.into the British press, there was an oddly supine sense that British
:18:49. > :18:59.newspapers have to behave themselves. We have the Press
:18:59. > :19:00.
:19:00. > :19:06.Complaints Commission and self regulation. I think that is
:19:06. > :19:11.disturbing. So on the principle, although we do not think there is
:19:11. > :19:21.any public interest in this a tall, I am quite happy that the Sun
:19:21. > :19:24.
:19:24. > :19:27.newspaper did what they did. But it really... Another tabloid published
:19:27. > :19:32.our lookalike, almost the same thing, but said they would not
:19:32. > :19:42.publish the pictures. I think it is about the reason you you do not
:19:42. > :19:42.
:19:42. > :19:46.publish. When bad reason for not publishing is because you're scared
:19:46. > :19:53.of what Leveson or the Press Complaints Commission or a
:19:53. > :20:01.Buckingham Palace thing. I I think the issue we're talking about today
:20:01. > :20:07.is hypocrisy. This meeting between Merkel and Samaras. It is not what
:20:07. > :20:15.they said it was about. The tabloids are saying it is about
:20:15. > :20:20.press freedom, but we all know it is not. But it is all about what we
:20:20. > :20:24.pay the Royal Family for. This has amused us. Whether you publish them
:20:24. > :20:30.in the newspapers are not is a red herring, because there will lighten
:20:30. > :20:34.the internet anyway, so what is it about and that is different? Cat
:20:35. > :20:39.litter the next day. There are different legal things, but in this
:20:39. > :20:45.case, Buckingham Palace just said, police are not publish these. Some
:20:45. > :20:49.people said it was a privacy issue because it took place privately.
:20:49. > :20:53.Harry did not choose to be born into the family he was born into,
:20:53. > :21:01.but when you are supported by the taxpayer to the tune of several
:21:01. > :21:08.million a year, maybe you have to think about it. Maybe what happens
:21:08. > :21:12.in Las Vegas doesn't stay in Las Vegas any more. It is like the
:21:12. > :21:17.newspapers meet playgirl magazine. I think looking at this from an
:21:17. > :21:21.American point of view, I cannot see how this is not a public figure
:21:21. > :21:28.in a story that needs to be covered. The question is what you do with
:21:28. > :21:33.the photograph? Publishing the photo, you could argue they were
:21:33. > :21:38.doing it for money, but at the same time, what happens next time, when
:21:38. > :21:43.there is another story? Would you draw the line at publishing are not
:21:43. > :21:47.publishing? In this post Leveson world and the UK, the media is
:21:47. > :21:54.still trying to at work out where the signs are. Perhaps you need to
:21:54. > :21:58.be more careful enjoying them to close. I suppose the thing is that
:21:58. > :22:01.even though people argue that this is a private place, it happened as
:22:01. > :22:09.a party with a lot of people have mobile phones and you take your
:22:09. > :22:13.clothes off and you're a member of the Royal Family with strangers.
:22:13. > :22:17.There are so many different angles to the story. I am against
:22:17. > :22:27.publishing the full to us and the press. Yes, it is fun and internet
:22:27. > :22:30.
:22:30. > :22:33.and those who want to see it will go and see it. People have been
:22:33. > :22:37.discussing the role of the Royal Family, especially because he has
:22:37. > :22:41.been representing the Queen this year. That puts a lot of strain on
:22:41. > :22:48.Harry to grow up, which everybody in the 20s has to face up to. There
:22:48. > :22:51.is an interest in that kind of story, but I do think the issue of
:22:51. > :22:55.privacy is one we will always go back and question and how much do
:22:55. > :23:01.you publish? I still think there is no need real need to publish it,
:23:01. > :23:06.and it is not because you were toeing the line and worried about
:23:06. > :23:11.annoying the palace, but I just think it is in bad taste.
:23:11. > :23:15.Do you think the Royal family themselves actually come out of
:23:15. > :23:20.this not badly at all. Everybody family has people we get into
:23:20. > :23:28.scrapes. You expect it from Harry and that is the role he plays. The
:23:28. > :23:33.Queen is head of state and he isn't. And he is number three in line.
:23:33. > :23:37.We're running out of time are we could spin the sound for ever, but
:23:37. > :23:41.if you remember when Prince Charles had his famous private phone call
:23:41. > :23:50.with Camilla Parker Bowles, that was a more serious thing, because
:23:50. > :24:00.Prince Charles was the heir to the throne. This one will just pass, I
:24:00. > :24:02.
:24:02. > :24:09.think, unless there are dozens of photos. There may be more her. The
:24:09. > :24:19.Washington Post did what? We put a front-page story on it, but not the
:24:19. > :24:19.
:24:19. > :24:27.photograph. We did the same. From a certain angle. It was front-page
:24:28. > :24:31.news. That is the role of the Sun newspaper, they do it
:24:31. > :24:35.straightforwardly. That's it for Dateline London for this week.