:00:00. > :00:00.I will be back with a full bulletin at the top of the hour. Time for
:00:00. > :00:26.Dateline London. Hello and welcome to Dateline
:00:27. > :00:30.London. A peace agreement in Ukraine ` do we really believe it? And the
:00:31. > :00:34.worst is over for the British economy ` how far do we believe
:00:35. > :00:39.that, too? My guests are: Irena Taranyuk of BBC Global News. Mina al
:00:40. > :00:43.Oraibi of Asharq al Awsat. Dr Vincent Magombe of Africa Inform
:00:44. > :00:49.International. And Dmitry Linnik of Voice of Russia.
:00:50. > :00:52.A good day's work was how US Secretary of State John Kerry
:00:53. > :00:55.described the peace deal agreed by Ukraine, Russia, the EU and the
:00:56. > :00:58.United States. It calls for ` among other things ` an end to violence,
:00:59. > :01:01.racism and anti`semitism, an end to the occupation of buildings and
:01:02. > :01:06.property. An amnesty, and more autonomy for Ukraine's diverse
:01:07. > :01:09.regions. What do we think of the practicalities of the deal ` and
:01:10. > :01:14.also of the fact that all sides at least appear to want a peaceful
:01:15. > :01:18.resolution if that is possible? There was a big sigh of relief when
:01:19. > :01:26.this happened because people had been talking down? For the fostering
:01:27. > :01:34.of others seemed to be common down between Russia and the West in
:01:35. > :01:41.regards with what is happening. Russia had dropped top of
:01:42. > :01:49.federalisation. They promised to put pressure on Ukrainian separatists.
:01:50. > :01:58.The very fact that the deal was achieved was the huge positive
:01:59. > :02:01.development. We saw the following day that there were demands by the
:02:02. > :02:13.separatists that the Ukrainian government abandoned Parliament.
:02:14. > :02:22.Totally absorbed. `` absurd. How do you think it is seen from Moscow? It
:02:23. > :02:35.is better than nothing. Things have not gotten was. `` worse. But the
:02:36. > :02:43.readings are different. There is not a lot they can do to relieve
:02:44. > :02:51.pressure from those radical groups. They cannot possibly do anything
:02:52. > :02:56.with them. These groups would fall under the demand to remove the legal
:02:57. > :03:10.or unofficial formations from public places. Do you think is accepted in
:03:11. > :03:15.Russia... The majority of people, whichever language they choose to
:03:16. > :03:24.speak, people watch you claim to stay as a unified state? `` Ukraine.
:03:25. > :03:33.I do not think it is under discussion. In the East, people who
:03:34. > :03:46.have risen up against the government do want to be part of Russia. Their
:03:47. > :03:51.is the realisation of that. As always, a political agreement is
:03:52. > :04:02.good. But that is in the details. It is hard to know who is putting
:04:03. > :04:06.pressure on the separatists. Do these people have there own concerns
:04:07. > :04:17.with the government and few that they want more autonomy? We saw all
:04:18. > :04:27.being said about anti`Semitism. It is very hard for unknown side of two
:04:28. > :04:34.normal `` to know who can stop these events. I heard Michael is the
:04:35. > :04:43.talking yesterday, and I was trying to think which anti`Semites do you
:04:44. > :04:49.have in mind? It is a very distorted picture. It is distorted by the
:04:50. > :04:56.media. I think the government is winning the propaganda war. They are
:04:57. > :05:06.trying to portray people as fascists and anti`Semites. There was a little
:05:07. > :05:17.sent out for Jewish residents... `` a letter. The international media
:05:18. > :05:26.covered that. It was a very well produced fake. Jewish people
:05:27. > :05:37.received that and they were terrified. I must do clear that even
:05:38. > :05:44.although I am supposed to be an African expert, I know this earlier
:05:45. > :05:56.well. `` this area. I lived in Russia. I visited Kiev. I am sure my
:05:57. > :06:03.colleagues will agree with some of the things I say. I personally think
:06:04. > :06:08.that when you have all these international deals will the people
:06:09. > :06:17.who are most affected are not the one speaking, you are talking about
:06:18. > :06:23.strategic interest... It is not really the people of Ukraine who are
:06:24. > :06:35.speaking. That is where the problem will come. These are strategic
:06:36. > :06:44.interest. Do you think this deal will bring sufficient calm? The
:06:45. > :06:52.election takes place on meagre 25? `` May 25? What we are stealing from
:06:53. > :06:58.the Americans is not what they are doing the. But of very specific
:06:59. > :07:06.interest. People should speak up much more. What seems to happen with
:07:07. > :07:16.these types of things, I know this with African experience, is that all
:07:17. > :07:22.of the superpowers are thinking that they have the answers to our
:07:23. > :07:31.problems. But they don't. They do not ask us. That is what is
:07:32. > :07:48.happening and Ukraine. `` in Ukraine. There were some rumours and
:07:49. > :07:59.this that visited the only coverage... Crimea has gone. But
:08:00. > :08:06.with than the rest of the country, in the East, the need to have a very
:08:07. > :08:19.serious, strong system. Where power is devolved. That is a good point.
:08:20. > :08:27.There are two parts of Ukraine talking to each other. Realistic? I
:08:28. > :08:36.don't think so. The way things played out, in November the European
:08:37. > :08:45.Union got incensed over the refusal of the agreement. They said you
:08:46. > :08:55.repeat this. `` you will pay for this. After that, everybody pretty
:08:56. > :09:06.much improvise. We are happy and they did with the government being
:09:07. > :09:11.flown over... `` thrown over... There is a view of which you read
:09:12. > :09:21.and the place which is that President Putin is pushing as hard
:09:22. > :09:33.as possible. Is that the reading? Of some people. Back in November, the
:09:34. > :09:41.European Union, Ukraine and Russia were talking. I can't agree with
:09:42. > :09:51.that. The European Union had reason to be incensed. It is still an
:09:52. > :09:54.agreement. What you are seeing is denying the power of the people who
:09:55. > :10:06.came to protest against the government. I am talking about the
:10:07. > :10:12.position of the European Union. People wanted to return home, the
:10:13. > :10:20.prospect of European Union integration. People came out in
:10:21. > :10:27.force to protest against the decision of Ukraine to Tom away from
:10:28. > :10:47.you. `` turn away from Europe. It grew. The European Union was not
:10:48. > :10:52.behind the protest. While I understand things, the problem I
:10:53. > :11:10.have with the Russian approach has been issues of democracy. We are
:11:11. > :11:26.forgetting how people view Ukraine. Yanukovitch was a nasty dictator. If
:11:27. > :11:39.you told me today wobble there are strategic interests in Uganda, the
:11:40. > :11:50.issue is democracy. Crimea as an past. You clean still hopes to get
:11:51. > :11:54.it back. `` Ukraine. The situation is developing. Some observers think
:11:55. > :12:05.that by DS collating the unrest in the country, Russia has changed at
:12:06. > :12:13.school. `` changed its goal. The fact that people are taking Crimea
:12:14. > :12:18.as given, the Russian government is strong enough now to face up to the
:12:19. > :12:22.united states. I think the impact that this is going to have, the
:12:23. > :12:34.International politics in terms of what we can do, nobody wants to go
:12:35. > :12:46.into another war. You talk about democracy... What is going to
:12:47. > :12:54.happen... The example of Crimea, what will happen at affect many
:12:55. > :13:02.other people in Russia, people will rise up. You don't want to be part
:13:03. > :13:10.of Russia because we are not democratic. We will cross that
:13:11. > :13:14.bridge. Britain's economy is growing ` and
:13:15. > :13:17.wages appear to be keeping up with inflation for the first time in
:13:18. > :13:20.years. Is the worst really over? Is the Labour Party right to continue
:13:21. > :13:23.to attack the government on a "cost of living crisis?" And what does it
:13:24. > :13:32.mean for British politics? As the was over? `` Is the worst over?
:13:33. > :13:38.Whenever the Prime Minister speaks, it is only has tape of what is. I
:13:39. > :13:46.come from relief from ethnic minorities. You do not seem to see
:13:47. > :13:55.the change that he talks about. Many people in the city are doing well.
:13:56. > :14:04.Many jobs for them. But if you go to places in south east London like
:14:05. > :14:12.that, I don't think you see. The bottom of peeing girls is becoming
:14:13. > :14:19.much more. `` The burden of paying bills. I was reading an article last
:14:20. > :14:27.night talking about the American middle class. It said that usually
:14:28. > :14:35.you expect and recessions there is a narrowing of the rich and. `` rich
:14:36. > :14:43.and poor. The middle classes starting up. It is not just the look
:14:44. > :14:46.but also something else. As the Labour Party on to something when
:14:47. > :14:53.you talk about the cost of living increases? As the economy picking
:14:54. > :14:57.up? The greatest indicator is housing. If you think about the
:14:58. > :15:03.middle classes of those who are depending on the salaries, it is
:15:04. > :15:09.very difficult. Especially if you are a first time buyer. If you are
:15:10. > :15:13.living in a small apartment that you had bought as a married couple, it
:15:14. > :15:22.is very hard to live not only in London but the sentinels of city. ``
:15:23. > :15:25.centres. The laws is higher than forecast. How does that translate to
:15:26. > :15:32.people in their everyday lives? People are concerned about the
:15:33. > :15:42.rising of interest rates. That hurts the housing rate. It is the middle
:15:43. > :15:53.class and middle income families that are being greatly hot by that.
:15:54. > :16:03.`` hurt. How do you see it? The government can say that is good news
:16:04. > :16:12.for people and that is important? But logically, yes, in view of the
:16:13. > :16:18.election next year. It depends on which index you look at. The figures
:16:19. > :16:30.appear to be fairly different. I understand Osborne trying to
:16:31. > :16:33.manipulate that particular index. But things are different, house
:16:34. > :16:39.prices in London have risen considerably. It is creating a
:16:40. > :16:42.bubble, that is the perception. As the bubble does not burst until
:16:43. > :16:55.after the election, that could be a good thing. We not seeing that from
:16:56. > :17:01.polling figures. Revolution does not happen easily in countries like
:17:02. > :17:08.Britain, are from the riots of London, some things can happen, but
:17:09. > :17:10.I would revise my opinion to say no revolution because one thing with
:17:11. > :17:15.these countries and I have said on this programme before, there is the
:17:16. > :17:23.capacity to keep systems going, for example, people keep adding water
:17:24. > :17:27.and electricity and so on. However, if you go to the South of London,
:17:28. > :17:37.you will think people are struggling to pay their rent. Some people have
:17:38. > :17:40.argued against this, but we have seen food banks would you can get
:17:41. > :17:45.free food if you are particularly hard up, they say they are doing
:17:46. > :17:52.record business. Yes, certain outlets like that are very busy. As
:17:53. > :17:59.an African, I could say perhaps we wanted to have a revolution. But in
:18:00. > :18:05.certain countries it is more necessary than others. You have
:18:06. > :18:11.actually got to different analyses, both of which are broadly right, one
:18:12. > :18:18.is that things are getting better for the economy as a whole and the
:18:19. > :18:21.second one is that the Labour Party is suggesting that we are not any
:18:22. > :18:29.better off than four years ago. You can argue both sides. Yes, it is
:18:30. > :18:35.about perception. It depends upon which index you base your assessment
:18:36. > :18:39.on. You may tell your voters that their real wages have grown but if
:18:40. > :18:44.they do not feel it on a daily basis, as they think wages are
:18:45. > :18:49.having to catch up with the cost of living, something the Labour Party
:18:50. > :18:56.went on about during the new representation of the The Budget, it
:18:57. > :19:03.is difficult to see who is going to wind the next election. On the other
:19:04. > :19:08.hand, any useful tool that props up the government will be used. Another
:19:09. > :19:14.thing that has been talked about, when people were asked who they
:19:15. > :19:22.trust to handle the economy, the Conservatives were seen to be above
:19:23. > :19:33.the Labour Party. That was because the financial
:19:34. > :19:36.crisis was blind `` that was because the Labour Party was blamed for the
:19:37. > :19:49.financial crisis. The Tories are trying to show that they can be
:19:50. > :19:52.tough when it is required. There is no real difference in terms
:19:53. > :19:58.of approaches from the Labour Party and the Conservative Party, that is
:19:59. > :20:04.what I think. How much better while the Labour Party do than the
:20:05. > :20:08.Conservatives and vice versa? Many people believe politicians while
:20:09. > :20:11.some play take the power. I know from talking to people in both
:20:12. > :20:19.parties, nothing annoys politicians more than telling them they are
:20:20. > :20:22.exactly the same as each other. There is always that swing from left
:20:23. > :20:29.politics in terms of labour and the likes of Neil Kinnock and Tony Blair
:20:30. > :20:37.who was just as right wing but he was also a capital was and enter the
:20:38. > :20:44.free market as much as anyone else. I do not think that the Labour
:20:45. > :20:51.leadership today looks to the left. What Gavin was saying was that the
:20:52. > :20:59.polls show that in terms of numbers, more people trust the
:21:00. > :21:10.Conservatives than Labour, that is what he said. David Cameron now.
:21:11. > :21:13.The Prime Minister David Cameron, who ` like many British politicians
:21:14. > :21:16.has generally been wary of talking too much about God ` celebrated
:21:17. > :21:19.Easter by speaking about his faith and about celebrating the Christian
:21:20. > :21:22.roots of this country. What do we make of politicians talking about
:21:23. > :21:31.faith and religion? He has been the but of some jokes
:21:32. > :21:39.and some people have said that it is an interesting topic. For me, I
:21:40. > :21:44.think it is nothing but trouble. When you look to the UK, there is a
:21:45. > :21:50.sense that those who do have strong religious beliefs or actually like
:21:51. > :21:57.to be practising, and they feel it is something to shy away from and
:21:58. > :22:02.you cannot see it. The problem is that did you say this is a Christian
:22:03. > :22:05.country, however it is open to everyone else, or do you say that we
:22:06. > :22:09.welcome people with or without faith and there is a bandwidth for
:22:10. > :22:15.everyone and that is essentially get in the UK. Some would say it is a
:22:16. > :22:21.post`Christian country and some people have Christian roots but do
:22:22. > :22:25.not go to chuck, even at Easter. But if they feel that their culture is
:22:26. > :22:31.being targeted, that is when the bullet and true religion. Again,
:22:32. > :22:34.this is electoral posturing, this is trying to go more right to the
:22:35. > :22:41.Conservative supporters and, of course, UKIP is the main target year
:22:42. > :22:48.rather than what I believe Cameron's actual faith is. Do
:22:49. > :23:03.Russian politicians do God? They do sometimes. The perception in the UK
:23:04. > :23:08.from what I have seen... IPhone is not a religion, nor is Miley Cyrus,
:23:09. > :23:14.so you have got to have that in our core and I think there is more
:23:15. > :23:18.realisation that society regardless of whether a QR David Cameron or
:23:19. > :23:25.Tony Blair or whoever, that something remains missing and that
:23:26. > :23:30.there is something needed to cement this society to rear from its
:23:31. > :23:40.roots. The Archbishop of Canterbury would, of course, be seeing that but
:23:41. > :23:45.I think it is growing in weight or circles. President Putin and Russia
:23:46. > :23:51.and the majority of Russian leaders will spend tonight in charge because
:23:52. > :23:54.Easter service there takes all night and they will be making an
:23:55. > :24:03.appearance and that refers to Ukrainian leaders also. Easter and
:24:04. > :24:09.being seen to "do God" as a big thing in that area. It became an
:24:10. > :24:16.official religion and to be seen and church and parading your beliefs
:24:17. > :24:21.became politically involved for politicians in that area. That does
:24:22. > :24:31.not stop some of them doing unchristian things however! I will
:24:32. > :24:40.tell you by people from Uganda are very cynical about politicians who
:24:41. > :24:43.preach religion and that is because for example, the President of Uganda
:24:44. > :24:51.has sold religious people the exact opposite. I can speak about religion
:24:52. > :24:57.and ask from support from religious leaders, but no bishop or religious
:24:58. > :25:00.version should come out openly and criticise the government for
:25:01. > :25:05.corruption and things like that, so I am very cynical these days about
:25:06. > :25:10.that. Several bishops are now starting to break the code, however.
:25:11. > :25:19.We now have different means possible. Some of us believe we
:25:20. > :25:24.should use all means necessary such as war to liberate our country,
:25:25. > :25:32.bishops say things are really bad, we accept that, but perhaps we must
:25:33. > :25:37.get this and get there with a more peaceful resolution. That's it for
:25:38. > :25:40.Dateline London for this week. You can also comment on the programme on
:25:41. > :25:43.Twitter @gavinesler using the hashtag DatelineLondon. We are back
:25:44. > :26:11.next week at the same time, Goodbye. Goodbye.
:26:12. > :26:22.Always nice to start on a sunny note. We are going to have great
:26:23. > :26:30.weather for the rest of the day. Enjoy the bluebells that are in
:26:31. > :26:31.bloom in the woods. It is a very coolish please