:00:23. > :00:24.Hello and welcome to Dateline London.
:00:25. > :00:27.Iran and Saudi Arabia - why the rest of us should care
:00:28. > :00:32.In Britain, Cameron and Corbyn are the leaders of the Conservative
:00:33. > :00:35.Or given the divisions within both parties,
:00:36. > :00:40.My guests today are: Thomas Kielinger of Die Welt,
:00:41. > :00:42.Nesrine Malik, who is a Sudanese writer, Amir Taheri,
:00:43. > :00:53.who is an Iranian writer and Ian Birrell of The Mail on Sunday.
:00:54. > :00:56.Last week, Saudi Arabia revealed it had executed a number of what it
:00:57. > :00:58.called terrorists - mostly Sunni extremists sympathetic
:00:59. > :01:01.But they also executed a Shia cleric, Nimr al Nimr,
:01:02. > :01:04.and that execution prompted a significant worsening of relations
:01:05. > :01:06.between these two pivotal powers in the Middle East.
:01:07. > :01:09.How far are we now witnessing another stage in what is in part
:01:10. > :01:12.a sectarian conflict between Sunni and Shia which has killed many
:01:13. > :01:15.innocent people in Iraq, Syria and Yemen, plus Afghanistan,
:01:16. > :01:29.how bad our relationships now between those two powers?
:01:30. > :01:34.They are very bad but it's not really a sectarian war, it is a war
:01:35. > :01:39.of the sectarians. On both sides, you have small minorities who want
:01:40. > :01:45.to impose their agenda on the rest of the country. The best thing to do
:01:46. > :01:51.is to appeal to religion. You can't talk of democracy, because if you
:01:52. > :01:57.are Islamist 's can be a nationalist. Communism is dead. You
:01:58. > :02:01.are left with is land. Islam is not like an orphan, it has become an
:02:02. > :02:07.ideology. Anyone can see it and use it. They are using it in Syria and
:02:08. > :02:14.Iran. All over the place. Do you think
:02:15. > :02:17.that Iran, for example, feels very protective to sheer minorities
:02:18. > :02:22.elsewhere and has to be seen to stand up to them, which advances the
:02:23. > :02:28.cause of the sectarians? That is also true in southern
:02:29. > :02:38.cacophonous. It is a Christian country. It was part of a run until
:02:39. > :02:46.1802. It is a war of the sectarians. Iran and Syria are supporting Bashar
:02:47. > :02:59.al-Assad who is... Is not regarded as Muslim. Iran has been trying to
:03:00. > :03:03.pursue its. It is really political. Elliptical rather than religious.
:03:04. > :03:08.How do you think it is seen in Sudan and across the Arab world? This
:03:09. > :03:17.particular execution and then what has happened in terms of relations?
:03:18. > :03:23.Unexpectedly, to the untrained eye, there is a lot of upside against the
:03:24. > :03:27.execution of Nimr al Nimr, even by Sunni majority countries. It was
:03:28. > :03:35.quite graphic. However, Saudi is a big patron states. -- in the Sunni,
:03:36. > :03:38.North Africa region. A lot of the reaction in Sudan was cutting off
:03:39. > :03:43.ties with Iran because they feel like they need to ingratiate
:03:44. > :03:48.themselves with Saudi. That overlaps with the kind of political influence
:03:49. > :03:53.of Sunni in the region because it is tied with Saudi Arabia's financial
:03:54. > :04:01.influence as well. Even though these things seem to be religious and
:04:02. > :04:06.sectarian, they are actually grounded in cold, hard economics and
:04:07. > :04:10.political favours. Ingratiating oneself with Saudi
:04:11. > :04:15.Arabia, how like -- unlike our own country. Is that not one of the big
:04:16. > :04:18.stories of the past 40 years? British governments have been very
:04:19. > :04:20.frightened to criticise Saudi Arabia because there is too much money
:04:21. > :04:22.involved. .
:04:23. > :04:28.One of the worst thing is that Blair did was to abandon a court case and
:04:29. > :04:33.usurp the judicial process to protect a relationship with Saudi
:04:34. > :04:37.Arabia over a bribery case. It is all about politics. This is internal
:04:38. > :04:42.politics in Saudi Arabia, which has a very young population. 70% under
:04:43. > :04:48.30s, many unemployed. Imposing austerity. It is trying to use this
:04:49. > :04:52.politically for internal political reasons, to shore up the regime.
:04:53. > :04:57.There is also the external issue of Western relationships. We have seen
:04:58. > :05:02.suddenly, in the last two or three years, a recognition and acceptance
:05:03. > :05:06.that countries like America and Britain should not be supporting
:05:07. > :05:15.this authoritarian, theocratic regime which seems to be supporting
:05:16. > :05:19.a hardline type of Islam and is practising apartheid against women.
:05:20. > :05:23.It has become unacceptable and it's noticeable that the Saudi Arabian
:05:24. > :05:30.ambassador in Britain last year warned relationships. America is
:05:31. > :05:34.dependent on Saudi Arabia because of oil and is a weakening of relations.
:05:35. > :05:37.That is something which the Saudis are alarmed about. I think it's good
:05:38. > :05:44.because we shouldn't have such strong relationships. This is a sign
:05:45. > :05:48.of the changing geopolitics. I just want to press that a bit
:05:49. > :05:52.further. Do you think that is one of the reasons why British governments
:05:53. > :05:57.have been very tight on Security and trying to do their best against
:05:58. > :06:01.Islamist fundamentalism in this country but have not rarely gone for
:06:02. > :06:06.the root causes of this idea? They have not worked out the influence of
:06:07. > :06:10.certain clerics who are paid for by Saudi Arabia, and the century -- is
:06:11. > :06:14.true in Pakistan and other countries?
:06:15. > :06:19.Historically, the West has been very soft. We are now seeing the blowback
:06:20. > :06:24.around the world on that. There is this great cataclysmic change and
:06:25. > :06:29.struggle going on and Saudi intelligence is important to the
:06:30. > :06:31.West. For the politicians, it's a difficult situation because they are
:06:32. > :06:38.coming under right for political pressure to take a tougher line. But
:06:39. > :06:43.they needed and are using it. As an onlooker, looking at the
:06:44. > :06:46.conflicts between the two countries, wanted new generation must be
:06:47. > :06:50.feeling is that the whole issue involves around too critical
:06:51. > :06:55.predominance and what has happened to the younger generation is that
:06:56. > :06:59.70% are below 30 and is participating in any kind of
:07:00. > :07:03.progress. These powers that be are dedicating themselves to domestic
:07:04. > :07:11.improvement for the people at work no. All we hear about his sectarian
:07:12. > :07:16.violence. We are losing, or these countries are losing, their
:07:17. > :07:20.education because they don't seem to be participating in progress.
:07:21. > :07:28.Some of the big ideas of the 20th century, communism, didn't seem to
:07:29. > :07:32.work out. Look at capitalism, freedom and be Arab Spring. That
:07:33. > :07:37.didn't seem to work out. Here's another coherent idea, well funded,
:07:38. > :07:43.but young people can latch onto. It's mostly about identity. Within
:07:44. > :07:47.Saudi Arabia, where I lived for several years, it's not a country
:07:48. > :07:49.that you would expect to be as stable as it is. There isn't
:07:50. > :07:56.actually that much doubling resentment. -- due to the fact that
:07:57. > :08:00.people think there is this sort of unelected monarchy. It's not the
:08:01. > :08:08.case. The sheer issue in Saudi Arabia is linked to sectarianism but
:08:09. > :08:12.also historical, tribal allegiances and who has power in Saudi Arabia.
:08:13. > :08:19.In a way, it's a very moderate and primitive, old-fashioned way of
:08:20. > :08:22.rule. You have people from Riyadh, people who are the sons of a
:08:23. > :08:29.particular marriage within the Royal Family. It is incredibly cobbled
:08:30. > :08:37.catered to try to peel away and identify two or three strands that
:08:38. > :08:43.determine what the issue is but is dictating the Shi'ite uprising or
:08:44. > :08:46.the conflict with Iran. One thing that I think is important to
:08:47. > :08:51.remember, picked up from Ian was my point, is that the Saudi regime,
:08:52. > :08:55.even though it looks very powerful, is in probably the most precarious
:08:56. > :09:00.position it has been in a very long time. Oil prices are going down,
:09:01. > :09:05.they're trying to kill shale oil and they can't. Isis has -- unleashed a
:09:06. > :09:10.propaganda war against Saudi Arabia that is getting a lot of traction in
:09:11. > :09:13.the Arab world. In the Western world even.
:09:14. > :09:17.And people are beginning to cotton on to the fact that if you are
:09:18. > :09:20.trying to outsource to the Saudis, they haven't been doing a very good
:09:21. > :09:25.job. What do you see as Iran's gains in
:09:26. > :09:29.the next year or two? What would they like to see happen in terms of
:09:30. > :09:34.the war in Syria, the continuing conflict in Iraq and what is going
:09:35. > :09:41.on in Yemen? How do things seem from Tehran, at the moment, given the
:09:42. > :09:43.sophistication of Arabian politics? Iran is suffering from
:09:44. > :09:47.schizophrenia. It doesn't know what it wants to be. It happens in all
:09:48. > :09:50.countries that experience a revolution. It takes a long time
:09:51. > :09:56.before they decide to become a nation again. Iran as a nation has
:09:57. > :10:05.no problem with anybody. It is the only country in the Middle East with
:10:06. > :10:09.true borders, backs to the shower. But it wants to exported to
:10:10. > :10:16.revolution, create an empire in the name of its brand of Shi'ism. It is
:10:17. > :10:21.in a very precarious situation. The leadership is divided and the
:10:22. > :10:29.economy is in meltdown. The national currency has lost 60% of its value.
:10:30. > :10:32.Every day, 1000 jobs are lost. In February, there will be crucial
:10:33. > :10:38.elections to see whether those who want Iran to become a nation state
:10:39. > :10:42.again will remain or whether the revolutionaries will remain. The
:10:43. > :10:46.Saudis think that by upping the ante, they will help those who want
:10:47. > :10:54.Iran to become a country. But they have the opposite effect.
:10:55. > :11:03.This situation is going to become a numerator when we stop our sanctions
:11:04. > :11:08.after the nuclear deal. $150 billion of frozen assets, if
:11:09. > :11:12.they released, could fuel a revolution in -- in Iran or it could
:11:13. > :11:17.fuel and around that wants to become a nation state and change the agenda
:11:18. > :11:21.by telling the people, let's have economic developments, and we don't
:11:22. > :11:27.care if the Arabs want to become muslins or if the Israelis... These
:11:28. > :11:32.are not our problems. We don't care if Assad is there or not. We have no
:11:33. > :11:37.quarrel with the United States, as a nation.
:11:38. > :11:41.One of the big reasons why we should care about all of this, I just want
:11:42. > :11:46.to bring it closer to home and to Germany and events there. We have
:11:47. > :11:50.seen is extraordinary scenes in Cologne and Angela Merkel, this
:11:51. > :11:54.weekend, is talking a very different kind of tone about what might need
:11:55. > :11:58.to be done about some people who commit horrible offences in Germany,
:11:59. > :12:03.who happened to be asylum seekers. I just wondered how that is being seen
:12:04. > :12:09.right now in Germany, given what Angela Merkel has said about
:12:10. > :12:13.immigration, migrants and refugees. I don't confuse what she seems to be
:12:14. > :12:17.doing with what exactly has happened. This is a long process to
:12:18. > :12:20.change the law about how to deal with asylum seekers who have fallen
:12:21. > :12:24.foul of the law. That will not happen in a hurry.
:12:25. > :12:29.What is happening is the continued decline of Angela Merkel's appeal
:12:30. > :12:34.with her policies. They are not popular. She personally is popular
:12:35. > :12:38.but your policies are becoming reasonably unpopular. This incident
:12:39. > :12:42.is a sort of writing on the wall for some people who have been saying
:12:43. > :12:45.there is a mismatch between an individual -- and indigenous culture
:12:46. > :12:51.and arrivals from a different culture to come into the country.
:12:52. > :12:54.Are people outside these far right wing groups saying that?
:12:55. > :12:58.People who criticise Angela Merkel don't want to fall even further in
:12:59. > :13:03.favour of the country because there are -- they see it did as the
:13:04. > :13:07.alternative. We are stuck between wanting Angela Merkel to succeed and
:13:08. > :13:11.wanting pay did not to succeed. We do want to conclude from this event
:13:12. > :13:17.but all arrivals have to be tarred with the same brush. They're all
:13:18. > :13:22.threats to our economy and cohesion as a society. We won't Angela Merkel
:13:23. > :13:30.to succeed that we find it hard to believe that it can happen. She is
:13:31. > :13:35.really hostage to fortune. As to how the rest of the country will cope
:13:36. > :13:38.with inculcating this new wave of arrival.
:13:39. > :13:44.I know quite a few people, when the news broke, wondered if that could
:13:45. > :13:48.really be happening in Cologne. Is that possible? If it has been
:13:49. > :13:52.reported, I think it has happened. I don't think we should spend any time
:13:53. > :13:58.trying to... There were a couple of incidents of people saying they had
:13:59. > :14:04.been exaggerating, had an agenda. I think is an incident is reported it
:14:05. > :14:10.should be taken very seriously. It is this rosy view that people who
:14:11. > :14:13.are pro-refugees and pro-asylum seekers do a similar disservice to
:14:14. > :14:17.those who are against when they paint the whole issue in black and
:14:18. > :14:20.white terms. This is a morally good thing to do and you bring in these
:14:21. > :14:24.virtuous suffering victims and they will take to your country and
:14:25. > :14:28.increase the labour force and everything will be rosy. It's never
:14:29. > :14:32.going to be easy and I think one should be very forthright about that
:14:33. > :14:35.and say, if you let in millions of people from a different culture,
:14:36. > :14:41.from war-torn environments, it's going to be difficult. It will be
:14:42. > :14:45.bumpy until things slow down. Once they are integrated. There is no
:14:46. > :14:48.reason to throw the baby out with the bath water. These are people
:14:49. > :14:53.from countries where women are looked down upon, where men have
:14:54. > :14:57.certain patriarchal values. This is all a fact, however, that is no
:14:58. > :15:01.excuse not to continue... One other point, which is that they
:15:02. > :15:05.are young men and young men from all societies are more likely to be
:15:06. > :15:09.committing crimes than other people. I think that's absolutely right.
:15:10. > :15:13.Angela Merkel deserves great credit for the way she has handled this and
:15:14. > :15:16.the way Germany has accepted, in the way that other parts of Europe apart
:15:17. > :15:21.from Sweden and the Netherlands, have not. There will be problems
:15:22. > :15:26.taking in 1 million people from other cultures. One interesting
:15:27. > :15:30.thing is the fact that so many young men. Families who can't get in are
:15:31. > :15:33.sending young men over in the hope that they can bring over their
:15:34. > :15:37.families. If we had a more rational asylum system which allows people
:15:38. > :15:42.not to have to come over on boats and risk their lives and travel
:15:43. > :15:45.through hostility across Europe, if we had a system which actually
:15:46. > :15:51.accepted that Europe has a need and a duty to handle the refugee crisis
:15:52. > :15:54.and to try to do it in a humane manner, they could be processed
:15:55. > :15:58.better, you could sift through the genuine refugees from the non-and
:15:59. > :16:02.you could take family is not just young man. Partly this is a
:16:03. > :16:07.by-product of the European policies. How do you see it?
:16:08. > :16:12.This is very interesting because it is typical of the West to always
:16:13. > :16:16.blame the West, as our colleague is doing. If some women are attacked in
:16:17. > :16:24.Cologne, it is the fault of our policy on immigration. These are
:16:25. > :16:31.people who have acted in a criminal way and have to be punished. It is a
:16:32. > :16:38.very small number of them. Cologne is a city of 300,000 people. There
:16:39. > :16:45.were celebrations with ten -- tens of thousands of people. We should
:16:46. > :16:47.not blow it out of proportion. If European women wore the hijab,
:16:48. > :16:53.people are saying this wouldn't happen because the women's area and
:16:54. > :17:00.an eighth a special raid drives men crazy! These are some jobs and you
:17:01. > :17:07.have to try to put them in jail. And throw them out of the country?
:17:08. > :17:11.Of course, it is the law. It is not a clash of civilisations or the
:17:12. > :17:17.collapse of immigration policy. I think in a week we will forget about
:17:18. > :17:20.it. Policemen are not owning up to the
:17:21. > :17:24.fact that there were immigrants owning up to these crimes. It was
:17:25. > :17:33.incorrect to admit that the people perpetrating the crimes were
:17:34. > :17:38.actually part of the right wing. You don't talk in a politically
:17:39. > :17:40.incorrect way... We may talk in a politically
:17:41. > :17:43.incorrect way in next ten minutes. One Labour supporter -
:17:44. > :17:45.the novelist Robert Harris - described Labour leader
:17:46. > :17:46.Jeremy Corbyn's so-called revenge re-shuffle of his Shadow Cabinet
:17:47. > :17:49.this week as: "The very definition of futility: a shadow cabinet
:17:50. > :17:51."reshuffle" of people doing imaginary jobs in a future
:17:52. > :17:53.government that will never exist." It came as the Prime Minister David
:17:54. > :17:56.Cameron announced his Cabinet could campaign in whatever way
:17:57. > :17:59.they like on the European Union Is this the New Politics,
:18:00. > :18:02.or just two weak leaders doing the best they can when their
:18:03. > :18:17.followers are split down the middle Beginning with Labour first, there
:18:18. > :18:23.are a lot of huge issues that have come up in the last two weeks,
:18:24. > :18:27.likely British economy, China in economic meltdown, flooding in major
:18:28. > :18:32.cities. The political news about Labour has been devoted to be
:18:33. > :18:40.shuffling people that is, frankly, most of us have never heard of.
:18:41. > :18:42.Is fascinated to see any sort of Labour political activity,
:18:43. > :18:46.internally, and the way the media covers it. There are two separate
:18:47. > :18:50.issues of what is actually going on and how the media covers it. Jeremy
:18:51. > :18:55.Corbyn is doing what is going on. From my point of view, it feels that
:18:56. > :19:01.there is a certain that the section of things that Jeremy Corbyn does by
:19:02. > :19:06.the British media and by the establishment. What he doing? Is
:19:07. > :19:11.being useless again. If it were a more... A different Labour leader,
:19:12. > :19:16.people would have just kind of sad, this is a routine cabinet reshuffle.
:19:17. > :19:19.But there are narratives about politicians and if they fall into
:19:20. > :19:24.the narrative than... If they don't change the narrative, nobody in any
:19:25. > :19:27.newspaper is going to do it for them.
:19:28. > :19:31.Is difficult to crawl out of that hole once you have been thrown in
:19:32. > :19:35.it. There are two ways of looking at this. Every leader, as they try to
:19:36. > :19:40.establish their agenda and try to get their party in shape, they will
:19:41. > :19:45.banish some people to the backbenches, as Jeremy Corbyn was
:19:46. > :19:48.banished when he was a backbencher. They will try to punish those who
:19:49. > :19:59.don't toe the party line and move things around. If you look at it, it
:20:00. > :20:05.seems like a pretty regular reshuffle.
:20:06. > :20:09.You are underestimating the importance of all these events. It
:20:10. > :20:14.isn't just a regular reshuffle. Early Corbyn sits there in a party
:20:15. > :20:18.which is not united any longer. He have to manage a potential civil war
:20:19. > :20:24.situation. There is the parliamentary party and those who
:20:25. > :20:27.supported his election. He has not sorted out exactly what kind of
:20:28. > :20:32.party he wants to lead. But that is a very normal thing. The
:20:33. > :20:36.division isn't normal, it is very unusual, but the fact that he is
:20:37. > :20:39.trying to reshuffle so as to bring those two things together, his
:20:40. > :20:44.mandate and the support of his party, that is completely normal.
:20:45. > :20:47.What's not normal here is that he was going to get rid of the Shadow
:20:48. > :20:54.Foreign Secretary and failed to do so because he is too weak. Secondly,
:20:55. > :20:58.he also -- only has the support of about 20 MPs. Most of the party is
:20:59. > :21:02.against him and Stacey is a loser. He is also the biggest revel in the
:21:03. > :21:07.party himself, though has a very weak hand and is caught in this
:21:08. > :21:10.process. It's not a usual set of circumstances. Kinnock, player, none
:21:11. > :21:14.of them had the whole party basically against them. It's about
:21:15. > :21:19.this huge division between a new membership which backs a very
:21:20. > :21:25.radical, in my view, old-fashioned and unelectable leader against the
:21:26. > :21:29.MPs who think he is a loser. How much did you enjoyed this car as
:21:30. > :21:35.a spectator sport? We are engaged in an exercise in
:21:36. > :21:42.futility. The fact is that Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the Labour
:21:43. > :21:46.Party, nobody can overthrow him now. You never thought he would be the
:21:47. > :21:53.Labour Party leader. He is not prepared from government and doesn't
:21:54. > :21:58.have any policies to bring out. He is bourgeois and that Mikey
:21:59. > :22:10.you have to give him time. If the media continues bashing him, which
:22:11. > :22:13.is now the latest media sports in Britain, I think nothing will come
:22:14. > :22:19.out of it. Is not the media, it's his own MPs.
:22:20. > :22:27.It's easy to blame the media. He wanted to sack Hilary Benn. How
:22:28. > :22:36.do we know? His enemies are saying these things...
:22:37. > :22:40.What I'm saying is that, give him time, give him six months or a year
:22:41. > :22:45.to see whether he can work something out, build a team. If he doesn't,
:22:46. > :22:51.this is a democracy. Democratic means are there to remove them.
:22:52. > :22:54.I was talking to a Corbyn supporter last night who pointed out that
:22:55. > :22:59.every time he is bashed in the media, including your paper, as far
:23:00. > :23:02.as young people are concerned, he says, they are more energised and
:23:03. > :23:05.bingo must be something to his -- to this man because they don't like the
:23:06. > :23:10.media anyway. He is seen as someone who isn't
:23:11. > :23:14.electable because of his history, yet like any true populist, some of
:23:15. > :23:18.his policies are actually quite popular. I oppose renationalisation
:23:19. > :23:21.of the railways but the majority supported. Is he is right when he
:23:22. > :23:27.says that Hilary Benn was on the wrong side of things like a rock.
:23:28. > :23:30.Let's not forget that. Although I think he was on the right side for
:23:31. > :23:35.the wrong reasons, he was on the right side.
:23:36. > :23:39.You heard it first here! There is this interesting dichotomy.
:23:40. > :23:42.He is deeply unpopular and his economic policies are crazy. Yet on
:23:43. > :23:50.some of these popular issues he is quite popular. As
:23:51. > :23:52.you would favour home as a journalist because he is a good
:23:53. > :23:56.story. He is fascinating to watch. There is
:23:57. > :24:00.an issue with parties being out of sync with the population. This is an
:24:01. > :24:05.interesting experiment. If I was a Labour MP, I wouldn't be very happy
:24:06. > :24:10.but, thank fully, I'm not. It was presumably inevitable that he
:24:11. > :24:16.had to give a free vote. They're going to do it politely.
:24:17. > :24:21.I think the cabinet could have lived with Chris Grayling walking out. I
:24:22. > :24:25.think it is a sign of weakness. We have a presidential style politics
:24:26. > :24:29.and when it comes to it on certain issues, politicians are quite weak.
:24:30. > :24:33.I think there is a difference here. This is about Europe which is the
:24:34. > :24:37.Tory party was my great divide. 30 years, this has undermined
:24:38. > :24:41.ministers. Cameron said he didn't want to bang on about Europe but is
:24:42. > :24:45.in this predicament of his own making. There is a weakness in how
:24:46. > :24:50.it can control it. He knows a lot of the party or against him. I don't
:24:51. > :24:53.think there is any comparison between his leadership, which is
:24:54. > :24:59.generally quite good and he has the party on his side, and has remade a
:25:00. > :25:03.party in his image, but particularly with the new generation of MPs.
:25:04. > :25:08.But you have to get used to weak leaders from now on. This is the
:25:09. > :25:14.natural development of Western society and Western democracy.
:25:15. > :25:18.Western society and its individual members get more powerful and more
:25:19. > :25:28.vocal, obviously, party leaders and government leaders get weaker. This
:25:29. > :25:32.is no time for Churchill. You have to have ordinary people like Cameron
:25:33. > :25:40.and Corman and the others. They try to do a job.
:25:41. > :25:49.Do you think we won't weak leaders? You were landed with them. You can't
:25:50. > :25:52.escape them. It's because of the unpredictable
:25:53. > :25:56.developments the world over. The world has become a mess of things to
:25:57. > :26:03.manage. I don't quite believe that these leaders have necessarily got
:26:04. > :26:08.to be unhelpful and weak. The Tory split was repeated 40 years ago. It
:26:09. > :26:11.happened in the Labour Party. They were split on Europe and Wilson
:26:12. > :26:19.agreed on a referendum because Tony Benn urged him to have one. The
:26:20. > :26:20.party is still much more united. Labour's problems are
:26:21. > :26:21.constitutional. That's it for Dateline
:26:22. > :26:23.London for this week. We're back next week
:26:24. > :26:25.at the same time. You can, of course,
:26:26. > :26:56.comment on the programme We're looking at a cloudy day
:26:57. > :27:01.without outbreaks of rain pushing northwards. This morning we had some
:27:02. > :27:02.massive tablature contracts across the UK, from the