:00:27. > :00:35.Hello, welcome to Dateline London. Terror attacks in Istanbul, Jakarta
:00:36. > :00:41.and Burkina Faso. Denmark once refugees to hand over their money if
:00:42. > :00:46.they want a new life. And the United States remains the world's
:00:47. > :00:53.unchallenged superpower. I am joined by a Portuguese writer, Canadian
:00:54. > :00:59.journalist, Egyptian commentator and a journalist from the Independent.
:01:00. > :01:08.Another week, another terror atrocity, or two, or three, or four.
:01:09. > :01:13.Do we just have to get used to all of this? What was once called
:01:14. > :01:16.unacceptable level of violence. And is in that Islamic State and
:01:17. > :01:20.Al-Qaeda will never win the caliphate but they will kill many
:01:21. > :01:27.innocent people over the next few years? This is the story of our
:01:28. > :01:32.time, and in many cases it is Muslim people who are being killed. This is
:01:33. > :01:38.the new normal. What we need to do... Cameron did address this, we
:01:39. > :01:42.need to really focus military efforts and police efforts because
:01:43. > :01:54.armies and tanks are not the war of the 21st-century. We are facing
:01:55. > :02:00.these make raw terror attacks -- micro terror attacks. An attack
:02:01. > :02:06.far-away terrorises everyone. This is a huge problem and there is no
:02:07. > :02:14.simple solution. Since Terry is, in a sense, an active theatre, we can
:02:15. > :02:23.do this small thing but it terrifies everybody -- Cammack. This is the
:02:24. > :02:29.new dark age of Islam. I speak as a Muslim. We have entered a terrifying
:02:30. > :02:38.dark age, not just in terms of the violence, in terms of their
:02:39. > :02:42.unthinkingness of our supplies each is. Once upon a time they had
:02:43. > :02:45.intellectual capacities which seem to have gone. The best people have
:02:46. > :02:52.left the countries and moved to the west. The dark ages in many ways. I
:02:53. > :03:00.also want to highlight that it is very important for us to also talk
:03:01. > :03:04.about undirected, awful drone attacks on people in Afghanistan or
:03:05. > :03:09.Pakistan, the innocent people are killed, and we do not even count the
:03:10. > :03:16.numbers, let alone names. This is chaos, we are living in a chaotic
:03:17. > :03:18.age. That is an interesting point. I was talking to someone who was a
:03:19. > :03:23.former governor from Pakistan, and he said to me that drone attacks may
:03:24. > :03:29.take out one, two, three, ten people who are considered terrorists, but
:03:30. > :03:35.the antagonised people in a difficult area that they destroy
:03:36. > :03:40.more. At least give them the dignity of giving us numbers and saying, be
:03:41. > :03:43.honest, we are fighting this war, sometimes innocent people are
:03:44. > :03:49.getting hurt. Not even the address that? In my newspaper, we are lucky
:03:50. > :03:54.to have three lines saying, 84 people died wherever. I met a woman
:03:55. > :04:00.who was that a wedding party in a small place in Afghanistan and half
:04:01. > :04:05.the wedding party was killed. She now heats the West, unreasonably, I
:04:06. > :04:13.told her. But you can see that we need to be looking at this in a much
:04:14. > :04:21.more intelligent way. Both people have said, fight smarter. It will
:04:22. > :04:24.take a long time, this is a problem which is a long time in the making.
:04:25. > :04:27.The most distressing aspect is the hundreds if not thousands of
:04:28. > :04:35.Europeans who actually have left Britain, France, Belgium and so on
:04:36. > :04:41.to go and join Isis, which is a cult of barbarism and violence. This is
:04:42. > :04:45.not the international brigades of the Spanish civil war, this is
:04:46. > :04:55.pretty much an international cult. This is very distressing. Propaganda
:04:56. > :05:00.is the most potent tool that Daesh has in its hands. When they have the
:05:01. > :05:07.strategy of targeting Jakarta, anywhere in the world, they are much
:05:08. > :05:12.weaker in Syria, in Iraq, because there has been a response either
:05:13. > :05:17.from Western bombardments but also the Peshmerga Kurds in Iraq. And
:05:18. > :05:20.also the Iraqi army. They have been addressing and responding to the
:05:21. > :05:27.insurgency of the Daesh. They are somehow becoming weaker in the areas
:05:28. > :05:31.where they are really implanted. We have to do something, we have to
:05:32. > :05:36.play against this propaganda game. One of the things I noticed, after
:05:37. > :05:43.the attacks in Burkina Faso, some people who are believed to be
:05:44. > :05:47.connected to Al-Qaeda issued a Twitter call to arms to young people
:05:48. > :05:52.all over the world come and fight the war. There is a digital work
:05:53. > :05:55.going on which is difficult to stop, which made to everybody rend this
:05:56. > :06:02.table seem ludicrous, but to some people, as you rightly say, some
:06:03. > :06:14.people find this attractive. In a linguistic manner only. Let me tell
:06:15. > :06:18.you the story invalid points. You're in global war. Terrorism is not a
:06:19. > :06:21.phenomena which is limited to any area, like everything else. The
:06:22. > :06:27.digital condition of the world contributes to that. Nothing which
:06:28. > :06:37.happens in Burkina Faso, Egypt, Jakarta, Istanbul, is disconnected.
:06:38. > :06:45.It is all different names, Al-Qaeda, Boko Haram, Isis, or whatever. But
:06:46. > :06:54.they are all connected. I feel really concerned that the Turks
:06:55. > :07:00.played with a Frankenstein scenario, helping Isis... Because they hate
:07:01. > :07:05.President Assad? You think that the devil will not turn against you. An
:07:06. > :07:13.investigative journalism study conducted by the Guardian between 24
:07:14. > :07:17.and 25 found that people from Europe and elsewhere arrived by the
:07:18. > :07:23.bus-load, they showed their IDE, gave their names, and then they were
:07:24. > :07:29.allowed to go. They did not think that the return against them. The
:07:30. > :07:35.Kurds are different problem and it will remain a problem for Turkey and
:07:36. > :07:41.everyone else. The problem as we see it, globalised lakes is, when you
:07:42. > :07:44.see these people in their videos, you will see that they are styled
:07:45. > :07:55.like the computer games, fighting computer games. Kind of like mad
:07:56. > :08:05.Max. It is dystopian. The important thing to remember for many of us is
:08:06. > :08:12.that they kill ten times more Muslim 's everyday than the kill anybody
:08:13. > :08:18.else. The age of barbarism now is not Islam versus the West, or the
:08:19. > :08:22.several lies the versus the uncivilised, it is between the
:08:23. > :08:26.barbarisms of all backgrounds. The barbarians of all backgrounds. And
:08:27. > :08:33.those of us who are trying to maintain decency, democracy,
:08:34. > :08:43.dignity, equality, they hate me. Absolutely. I am the nightmare
:08:44. > :08:51.woman. This, this? My God, they hate me. Much more than they hate any
:08:52. > :08:58.Western women. They go for soft targets. What I'm concerned about,
:08:59. > :09:01.since we talk about globalisation of terror, is the attitude of the
:09:02. > :09:05.British government towards the Muslim Brotherhood. The report which
:09:06. > :09:14.was published in brief replay, the Muslim Brotherhood provide the
:09:15. > :09:23.intellectual umbrella for preparing the main fur radicalisation. Next
:09:24. > :09:29.week is five years since the big demonstrations in Tahrir Square. He
:09:30. > :09:34.thought it was a big watershed for your country. The only political
:09:35. > :09:41.force of that that was left in Egypt was Muslim Brotherhood. They will
:09:42. > :09:44.only ones who deceive the people, but within one year the people
:09:45. > :10:01.discovered them and went for their hosting. -- ousting. They would have
:10:02. > :10:06.been a massacre in Egypt. What has happened in Egypt now is testament
:10:07. > :10:13.to what could have happened at the time. Terror groups like the Daesh
:10:14. > :10:18.or political donations like the Muslim Brotherhood are fulfilling
:10:19. > :10:22.the role of the state. That is why they are accept it. That is why the
:10:23. > :10:30.populations in those cities accept them. In welfare, education? Win
:10:31. > :10:36.bringing law and order and so on. This is why they have been powerful.
:10:37. > :10:41.A strategy to undermine or weaken the Daesh or any of the terrorist
:10:42. > :10:45.organisations, they would have to start to fulfil their role in the
:10:46. > :10:51.Middle East in terms of providing welfare, education, jobs and so on.
:10:52. > :10:54.It is very difficult to be anything other than pessimistic about this
:10:55. > :11:00.problem because we do not have a vocabulary to address it. The 20th
:11:01. > :11:03.century was really about 20th century warfare. This kind of pocket
:11:04. > :11:08.terrorism, and as you say, drones are not the answer, special forces
:11:09. > :11:14.are not the answer. This is a cultural problem. When I covered the
:11:15. > :11:22.downfall of Gaddafi, I covered it in Libya. I asked people, what will
:11:23. > :11:26.really stabilise this country? One woman said, if you give me money I
:11:27. > :11:31.would build sports Centre is 40 metres across Libya, because they
:11:32. > :11:40.have nothing to do, they have no constructive outlet. They are being
:11:41. > :11:46.seduced into these nefarious groups. It is really a cultural problem that
:11:47. > :11:55.we are seeing that is bubbling up from the bottom. A powerlessness.
:11:56. > :12:02.The myth that they are being sold is that we Muslims have been sucked dry
:12:03. > :12:05.and are powerless. Why are these young people from the west to have
:12:06. > :12:10.everything, including women, whose lives are going to be hell, this
:12:11. > :12:14.reduction that we want to be powerful... And you're not going to
:12:15. > :12:20.be powerful like this, but that is what they are selling. Let us move
:12:21. > :12:25.on. What would we -- should we do with refugees? Should we demand that
:12:26. > :12:31.we hand over their valuables, as some Danish politicians want. Should
:12:32. > :12:36.they starve and freeze in Syria, as is happening now? Are we suffering
:12:37. > :12:41.from compassion fatigue when it comes to people from other countries
:12:42. > :12:44.trying to move around? That extends to the debate in American politics,
:12:45. > :12:50.the win which the European Union has acted? It is very interesting to me
:12:51. > :12:56.that the West gets so exercised by this global responsibility. If it is
:12:57. > :13:00.a globalised world that is not just a globalised world meaning,
:13:01. > :13:04.capitalism can move to where it once, exploit the way brand bring
:13:05. > :13:10.back the wealth, has to be global responsibility. For ten years, 12
:13:11. > :13:13.years, most refugees in the world have in the dafter by the poorest
:13:14. > :13:18.nations in the world. Of course there has been resentment, anger,
:13:19. > :13:26.what are these people doing here, we are poor. Millions of refugees live
:13:27. > :13:33.in Jordan, in the Lebanon, some in Egypt, Tanzania, Uganda. The West, I
:13:34. > :13:38.fear, seems to think that it has some sort of global right to
:13:39. > :13:47.complain excessively about this responsibility and to turned the
:13:48. > :13:52.story of refugees into a threat to themselves. How did this happen?
:13:53. > :13:57.Rationally you're right. The problem is that our previous discussion
:13:58. > :14:00.please enter this. The attacks in Paris make it very hard for
:14:01. > :14:05.politicians in France or anywhere to say, let us let in a quarter of a
:14:06. > :14:10.million or a half-million Syrian refugees. Or in Turkey, as we have
:14:11. > :14:16.seen this week. Exactly. The refugees... Terrace is... This
:14:17. > :14:22.predates anything that happened in Europe. But we're talking about
:14:23. > :14:26.today. You cannot talk about today. This has been going on forever. I
:14:27. > :14:35.was an exile from my country in Uganda. When we came, it was
:14:36. > :14:38.justice, we cannot take these people, it is the end of
:14:39. > :14:44.civilisation. Now that our community has become rich, they love us. They
:14:45. > :14:48.love them, not me. The events in Cologne which were absolutely
:14:49. > :14:52.despicable in New Year's Eve, have been tied in some cases to people
:14:53. > :14:57.who came to Western Europe for a better life, for safety, or whatever
:14:58. > :15:01.reasons. That's quite rightly makes people very alarmed and makes us
:15:02. > :15:05.wonder what we have done. Absolutely. And not to forget the
:15:06. > :15:11.most tenuous of austerity policies in Europe. Our governments have been
:15:12. > :15:17.telling us that there is no money, for schools, health care, housing,
:15:18. > :15:20.for anything. So, to have government saying, we will welcome half a
:15:21. > :15:26.million refugees from Syria or Turkey, this is very hard to take.
:15:27. > :15:33.Europe post to change tack. This is absolutely shameful what has been
:15:34. > :15:37.going on. European governments have been trying to pass the buck to
:15:38. > :15:41.another European government or country, it is not our
:15:42. > :15:45.responsibility, it should be the first country that receives
:15:46. > :15:50.refugees. This cannot go on. There has been much more rational and
:15:51. > :16:00.there policy. Some people believe that you should end showing in --
:16:01. > :16:09.the Schengen agreement. The UK should be ashamed of itself. There
:16:10. > :16:19.was a cartoon... I have to mention this, the cartoon in Charlie have to
:16:20. > :16:28.this week made me utterly ashamed to be European -- Charlie Hebdo. A
:16:29. > :16:32.young man lying dead on the beach, then showing him growing up
:16:33. > :16:39.molesting women. This kind of cartoon, what kind of Europe have we
:16:40. > :16:47.become? Years catching his breath. One of them is dealing with a global
:16:48. > :16:56.issue. These people, if they come with some money after they have sold
:16:57. > :17:01.there houses and possessions at a knocked down in price in order to
:17:02. > :17:05.escape death, they will use that money to build themselves up in the
:17:06. > :17:09.place to which they are going. Europe needs people to work. This is
:17:10. > :17:15.important, we have to take this into account. The fact that Europe faces
:17:16. > :17:18.hardship, other people face death, that has to be considered as a
:17:19. > :17:22.matter of balance. What astonishes me is that a think it is fair to
:17:23. > :17:26.call Europe and the West to account on this. But we're not talking about
:17:27. > :17:33.the Gulf states and the other rich Arab countries. They get a free pass
:17:34. > :17:38.in this. I find that astonishing. We have Qatar and the United Arab
:17:39. > :17:43.Emirates and Kuwait and Saudi, not the most appealing places, for sure,
:17:44. > :17:47.but how did they get a free pass and France and the Netherlands and
:17:48. > :17:52.Denmark do not? It is an interesting point. The refugees want to come to
:17:53. > :17:56.Europe where there is a welfare state, but there is also democracy.
:17:57. > :18:00.It because we are democracies, the people of Europe are also utterly
:18:01. > :18:04.resistant to have strangers from outside. Politicians need to
:18:05. > :18:09.explain, no one has performed the role of being a public educator in
:18:10. > :18:17.explaining the refugee problem, what our countries can benefit or not
:18:18. > :18:20.from less. Cologne happened and then it is very difficult. People are
:18:21. > :18:25.very angry. People are very, very angry. Populist parties from the
:18:26. > :18:30.right out on the rise in Europe. This means that a lot of the ball,
:18:31. > :18:33.millions of people, I very angry. We will not solve the problem by
:18:34. > :18:38.saying, what they care about and feared does not matter. I completely
:18:39. > :18:41.take your point about the Gulf states. But no body would want to go
:18:42. > :18:49.to Saudi Arabia, which is the evil Empire. The values in that part of
:18:50. > :18:54.the region are so debased... Not all of the values. But here, the road
:18:55. > :18:57.Europeans, including British people, going to these refugee camps in
:18:58. > :19:03.Europe and really helping. Some of them told me recently that one woman
:19:04. > :19:09.watched Child in the cold in Europe, in one of these refugee camps, the
:19:10. > :19:17.heart stopped beating. We cannot go on doing this and pretending that we
:19:18. > :19:20.are civilised continent. I think that the problem has to be looked
:19:21. > :19:27.into in an object of way. These people have to be accommodated, they
:19:28. > :19:34.can be screened, you can accept some who are eligible. After the
:19:35. > :19:38.situation has been settled, you can except pressure on Gulf countries,
:19:39. > :19:43.so that they could fund then here if they will not take them. This is
:19:44. > :19:48.another solution. I cannot put myself in the place of the people in
:19:49. > :19:52.crisis and look for a solution. They cannot think for themselves. They
:19:53. > :19:57.want to live, that is it, end of story.
:19:58. > :20:02.Let us move on. The Oscar season is upon us. Dominated as usual by
:20:03. > :20:07.Hollywood films. They show the complexity of American culture.
:20:08. > :20:11.There are a few British ones, films and Irish and so on. But do the
:20:12. > :20:16.Oscars remainders that when it comes culture there is one superpower, the
:20:17. > :20:22.United States, and one language, English? I disagree with that. I
:20:23. > :20:28.thought that you make! The Oscars are a celebration of American
:20:29. > :20:40.cinema. Foreign films can only enter in the foreign film category. That
:20:41. > :20:43.is very generous. For example at Cannes, all nationalities can
:20:44. > :20:46.compete. The trends that we have seen in recent years with American
:20:47. > :20:51.cinema is that there has been a decline in quality. Hollywood is
:20:52. > :20:58.producing more and more formulaic and repetitive films. 90% of what
:20:59. > :21:08.Hollywood producers is rubbish. There are excellent films that need
:21:09. > :21:13.to be praised. But the rest of the world produces excellent cinema.
:21:14. > :21:20.Amazing films not included in the foreign film category. One amazing
:21:21. > :21:31.film on the problem of diet, a beautiful film. Hollywood has the
:21:32. > :21:33.power. I think there are more British runs nominated this year
:21:34. > :21:46.than ever before! Some of the best films. American stories, Brooklyn,
:21:47. > :21:49.an astonishing film. It is a British and I -- British, Irish and Canadian
:21:50. > :21:59.co-production. It is a brilliant film. It is a foreign film. There
:22:00. > :22:11.are some British productions. My point is, this is the second
:22:12. > :22:15.Hollywood here. They go to America to make films, angrily did exactly
:22:16. > :22:23.the same. Richard Spies, brilliant screenplay, written by a British
:22:24. > :22:35.writer, they all go to America -- Bridge of Spies. If you are white,
:22:36. > :22:39.or highly skilled, like Ang Lee, you can go anywhere. American films are
:22:40. > :22:43.wonderful, Hollywood is wonderful, but let us not talk about a super
:22:44. > :22:50.cultural power. The world is much more interesting than that, thank
:22:51. > :22:56.God. I have done quite well, three out of four. Cinema is the domain of
:22:57. > :23:02.my son, politics is my dream. But while the balance of power in the
:23:03. > :23:08.world is changing, not in every way, America will remain a major
:23:09. > :23:17.superpower in cultural soft power, cinema, etc, even after its empire
:23:18. > :23:21.expires. Exactly. That is why was going to come back to you and say,
:23:22. > :23:28.supposing tomorrow everybody around the world is to boycott American
:23:29. > :23:33.goods and services, so no Apple, Google, they speak, Starbucks, make
:23:34. > :23:38.us laugh, Boeing aeroplanes. In any other country you could potentially
:23:39. > :23:43.get away with it, but not in the United States. Of course not. Never
:23:44. > :23:50.suggested a boycott. But as a cultural superpower, we have the
:23:51. > :23:58.president of the United States telling us that America is
:23:59. > :24:03.pre-eminent politically. This is a black Hiro... Are dark era in
:24:04. > :24:08.American political history. There are differing perspectives on the
:24:09. > :24:13.rise and supremacy of America moment. But the cultural supremacy,
:24:14. > :24:18.the president was talking somewhat differently and Donald Trump has a
:24:19. > :24:22.slightly different agenda. That is next week's show! Were people watch
:24:23. > :24:28.Bollywood films than ever watch Hollywood films. One of the stars
:24:29. > :24:39.has ten times more followers than even Tom Cruise. But he is not a
:24:40. > :24:42.global character... Some of them can go to America and they all go crazy
:24:43. > :24:51.for him. That is optimistic, with all due respect. The story was in
:24:52. > :25:00.the New York Times, actually. Then it must be true! Regardless of the
:25:01. > :25:06.fact that Pakistan got independence from the Indian sub continent
:25:07. > :25:12.because it is Muslim, Muslim Pakistanis, if not all of them, do
:25:13. > :25:18.well from watching Indian cinema. So the political disconnection does not
:25:19. > :25:21.mean cultural disconnection. To go back to your main point, there are
:25:22. > :25:25.some absolutely extraordinary films made which gets very little screen
:25:26. > :25:39.time in the United States or Britain, but Timbuktu is also a
:25:40. > :25:44.great film. Iranians make amazing films. Against all odds. That is
:25:45. > :25:49.part of the Hollywood system, with production companies controlling
:25:50. > :25:53.distribution. They have amazing marketing budgets. The producers of
:25:54. > :26:03.Timbuktu, for instance, they could only dream of having half or a
:26:04. > :26:11.quarter of the PR and marketing budget of The Revenant. If you look
:26:12. > :26:16.back in time and can peer budget to today, you can see a lot of good
:26:17. > :26:23.films produced outside of the United States today. Culture is soft power
:26:24. > :26:32.and you have enormous incentives to produce films. What you seeing this
:26:33. > :26:37.growth of international film studios in places like Iran and Canada that
:26:38. > :26:42.simply did not exist and get exposure. So the flip your original
:26:43. > :26:49.question around, this is actually quite an optimistic era for a global
:26:50. > :26:54.cinema. All of our top black actors went off to America, made their
:26:55. > :26:59.names... There is an amazing thing America does. I thought you were
:27:00. > :27:02.going to use the best counterargument by saying that
:27:03. > :27:09.America are still making Rocky movies! That is all from Dateline
:27:10. > :27:13.London for this week. You can comment on the programme on
:27:14. > :27:39.Twitter. Thank you for watching and goodbye.
:27:40. > :27:45.And very cold, frosty start to the weekend. One of the coldest we have
:27:46. > :27:48.seen for some time. Temperatures in parts of Scotland reached -10
:27:49. > :27:49.Celsius in some places last