:00:30. > :00:31.Hello and welcome to Dateline London.
:00:32. > :00:33.Civil war in the Conservative party as the European referendum campaign
:00:34. > :00:36.Plus the loss of an Egyptian airliner,
:00:37. > :00:38.and the safety of all air passengers.
:00:39. > :00:43.Mina al Oraibi who is an Iraqi writer.
:00:44. > :00:45.Jeffrey Kofman who is a North American journalist,
:00:46. > :00:55.About the only thing everyone on either side of the European
:00:56. > :00:58.referendum campaign can agree on is that this is the biggest
:00:59. > :01:00.decision for British voters in at least a generation
:01:01. > :01:03.But what began in large part as an attempt by David Cameron
:01:04. > :01:05.to manage honest divisions within the Conservative Party
:01:06. > :01:08.on the issue has now become - perhaps predictably -
:01:09. > :01:11.How far is the abuse muddying the important arguments
:01:12. > :01:25.I said it was a civil war but it is a bit of an uncivil war. I don't
:01:26. > :01:30.accept your premise that it began with the Tory party. I think from
:01:31. > :01:34.time to time it is only right to obtain the consent for the
:01:35. > :01:38.government in the manner that they are governed. Given that we have not
:01:39. > :01:44.had a vote on our membership of the EU which has changed hugely since
:01:45. > :01:48.1975, I think it is right to have a referendum. Obviously, I think those
:01:49. > :01:52.who want to leave believe that but I think it is also the case for those
:01:53. > :01:57.who wish to remain. Secondly, there is a strong market went on the left
:01:58. > :02:00.for the European Union. That is why one of the applications for the
:02:01. > :02:04.designation of the official Leave campaign was from the trade unionist
:02:05. > :02:09.and Socialist coalition. There is not meant on the left that the EU is
:02:10. > :02:17.a corporate stitch up done in the interest of big business and big
:02:18. > :02:22.bank will stop that is the argument Jeremy Corbyn made when he became
:02:23. > :02:26.leader of the Labour Party. It is not just in in-house Tory
:02:27. > :02:30.discussion, yes, it has strongly divided the Conservative Party, but
:02:31. > :02:35.I think again, another reason to disagree with the premise, there is
:02:36. > :02:39.a lot of ugliness beyond the rhetoric that is happening between
:02:40. > :02:43.Boris and Michael Gove and George Osborne. I think one of the worst
:02:44. > :02:48.things that happened so far was one of the classic open Mike Gatz from a
:02:49. > :02:54.Labour member Pat Glass, who was a colleague of yours at the BBC, she
:02:55. > :03:00.did not realise the microphone was on and she said I knocked on a door,
:03:01. > :03:09.first as my net was concerned about immigration, what a horrible racist.
:03:10. > :03:12.That is the off-camera view of a Remain campaigner. There are a lot
:03:13. > :03:17.of good principled people on the Remain side and people campaigning
:03:18. > :03:21.to leave the EU but my instinct is that is a strong position on the
:03:22. > :03:23.side of some of those who wish to remain. They think anyone who
:03:24. > :03:28.disagrees with them is not just wrong, they are a racist. Pat
:03:29. > :03:33.Glass's apology was not really because she was sorry for what she
:03:34. > :03:38.said, she is not sorry for thinking what she thought, she is sorry for
:03:39. > :03:43.getting caught. It reminds me of the gas by Gordon Brown at the election
:03:44. > :03:49.in 2010 when he made a similar gaffe on microphone, with a woman who was
:03:50. > :03:56.concerned about immigration. Gillian Duffy. We have just had David
:03:57. > :04:01.Cameron hosting an international conference and was heard saying
:04:02. > :04:07.Nigerians and Afghanistan is terribly corrupt. The Prime Minister
:04:08. > :04:12.was being accurate, they are fantastically corrupt countries.
:04:13. > :04:19.They are, but both current president of Nigeria and Afghanistan are
:04:20. > :04:22.working hard to tackle that. But we go off message, I apologise for
:04:23. > :04:27.that! I will go back on message and say what Pat Glass was responding to
:04:28. > :04:30.is the fact the voter was complaining that there are these
:04:31. > :04:34.Polish migrants and they think they are on the dole. It is a concern
:04:35. > :04:40.about immigration but it is assuming that people are only coming here to
:04:41. > :04:45.sponge off the government. That is not racist. It is illegitimate
:04:46. > :04:49.concern but we have to see the context. We have gone immediately
:04:50. > :04:54.into the meat of one of the arguments about this debate. My
:04:55. > :05:00.point was that maybe it is time to have a referendum on Europe and so
:05:01. > :05:04.on, maybe it is time to look at why we are governed. I wonder if David
:05:05. > :05:08.Cameron thinks that today when he sees what is happening in the party
:05:09. > :05:18.and the way people are calling each other out. The irony is he promised
:05:19. > :05:23.this referendum, to keep the party together for the election, he won a
:05:24. > :05:27.majority, and now the thing he thought he was avoiding is now
:05:28. > :05:32.actually occurring before him, and he is presiding over this schism
:05:33. > :05:37.within the party that threatens its very future. I think there are a
:05:38. > :05:41.couple of things you can observe. The challenge with these kind of
:05:42. > :05:46.votes is it is all about speculation. It is all about this
:05:47. > :05:52.might happen, the fear will happen. You will lose this if it happens.
:05:53. > :05:56.There are not anyways to have so-called facts in these
:05:57. > :06:02.discussions. It comes who can scare most and it becomes about passion.
:06:03. > :06:06.Therefore, these are not rational, grounded discussions. I think there
:06:07. > :06:09.is a positive case in this referendum. People are discussing
:06:10. > :06:14.sovereignty. People say patronisingly they do not discuss
:06:15. > :06:17.this and that down the dog and duck, but now they are discussing how we
:06:18. > :06:21.are governed, whether we can have trade deals or not, the short answer
:06:22. > :06:29.is no trade deal except through the EU. These things are being discussed
:06:30. > :06:32.and I think that is a good thing. They are being discussed but we have
:06:33. > :06:35.had the prospect of world War three before us, Hitler raised, house
:06:36. > :06:40.prices going down by 18% or whatever it is, we have 5.2 million
:06:41. > :06:44.immigrants who will come in from new accession countries come if I were
:06:45. > :06:48.missed meg looking in a crystal ball I could come up with stuff which is
:06:49. > :06:54.less reliable. We do not know any of this stuff, do we? In that sense,
:06:55. > :07:00.Cameron has become a hostage to fortune. He may regret calling the
:07:01. > :07:03.referendum but he cannot avoid it now, he is in it. What more
:07:04. > :07:05.arguments are there to be made except going one better and
:07:06. > :07:10.increasing the fear factor and so forth. The debate becomes less
:07:11. > :07:14.rational and more emotional. I agree with Alex that at the bottom of it
:07:15. > :07:19.all, we are doing well to discuss what it involves. To come back to
:07:20. > :07:23.the first point, Gavin, it is not just speculation that there will be
:07:24. > :07:28.a huge wave of more immigrants coming to this country, because as
:07:29. > :07:31.we know Britain is hugely popular in the world and Europe in particular.
:07:32. > :07:35.There is no other European country which can claim to be at the mercy
:07:36. > :07:40.of ever more immigrants coming to our shores like Britain. She has
:07:41. > :07:44.enormous soft power. She is a magnet for all and sundry who want to come
:07:45. > :07:48.here. I don't know why because the cost of living is so enormous! And
:07:49. > :07:53.yet they want to come here so there is a rational case to be made, can
:07:54. > :07:57.we contain the flow of this immigration or not? Can we become
:07:58. > :08:00.hostage to ever more arrivals and find ourselves incapable of coping
:08:01. > :08:16.with social services, schools and what have you? That is a
:08:17. > :08:18.rational argument. And the NHS. These are terribly rational debates,
:08:19. > :08:21.but sometimes the debate has been framed in a way which does not make
:08:22. > :08:23.the politicians look very good. I think it is very unfair on Michael
:08:24. > :08:26.Gove. We are getting close to calling him a racist for saying more
:08:27. > :08:30.immigration places more of a burden on the NHS. That is a fact. We are
:08:31. > :08:36.seeing more visits to A and treatments as a whole. But also,
:08:37. > :08:44.many immigrants work in the NHS, not just for the EU. And neither I nor
:08:45. > :08:47.Michael Gove dispute that. He didn't make that point, he didn't say the
:08:48. > :08:50.NHS also relies on people coming from abroad to help us. He said
:08:51. > :08:54.there could be a problem because of people coming to the NHS. He did not
:08:55. > :09:00.frame it in both sides of the art amid which is fine, it is politics,
:09:01. > :09:05.but it does not necessarily help divisions in the Conservative Party.
:09:06. > :09:08.We are in a somewhat polemic discussion, are we not? One of the
:09:09. > :09:14.things that comes out is you watch Cameron trying to control a party.
:09:15. > :09:17.In the 20th century, we saw parties come together under a leader,
:09:18. > :09:22.particular in Britain and also Canada where I am from. When you had
:09:23. > :09:26.a majority, you could with your whip enforced discipline. I think what
:09:27. > :09:30.you're seeing now, and not just in Britain is this idea that the
:09:31. > :09:35.political party of the 20th century is having a lot of trouble staying
:09:36. > :09:42.unified, that with social media, with transparency and the immediacy
:09:43. > :09:45.of communication, it is much more to impose that you behave or you are in
:09:46. > :09:50.trouble. This kind of fracture that we are seeing, we see it in Labour
:09:51. > :09:55.with the divisions over Corbyn's leadership. I think we are stuck
:09:56. > :10:00.looking at these parties as if they are in the 20th century. I have
:10:01. > :10:05.raised this with a senior figure in Labour, is the Labour Party held
:10:06. > :10:09.together by one big idea of social democracy and socialism, if so what
:10:10. > :10:13.is it, or is it held together by the fact that if parties split in
:10:14. > :10:18.Britain you are heavily penalised because of our voting system and it
:10:19. > :10:22.is probably a bit of both? I don't think all Labourites share that
:10:23. > :10:29.view. I think there are a lot of little centrists who vote Labour and
:10:30. > :10:34.a lot of moderates who vote Conservative. I think these parties
:10:35. > :10:38.are having trouble maintaining that. You see this in the US. We are
:10:39. > :10:44.watching Donald Trump, we see the fracture in the Republican party and
:10:45. > :10:49.with Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders fighting it out until the
:10:50. > :10:53.end. When David Cameron thought of this referendum and brought it up, I
:10:54. > :10:56.agree with the point you raised, Alex, it is important to have a
:10:57. > :11:00.serious and honest discussion about it, but it was a short-term strategy
:11:01. > :11:04.thinking about this is how I will get through the election, and then
:11:05. > :11:08.passed the election, dealing with the referendum. The idea that
:11:09. > :11:15.collective responsibility has gone out of the window, for the British
:11:16. > :11:20.political system, has huge consequences. There is this fact of
:11:21. > :11:25.life that parties are very difficult to keep together. Parties are, but
:11:26. > :11:28.collective responsibility in a cabinet system is hugely important.
:11:29. > :11:32.Even when we had the coalition they had to stick with it. Even when Nick
:11:33. > :11:37.Clegg completely was agreed, they had to toe the line. But they should
:11:38. > :11:42.not have had a referendum, should you? Cabinet acknowledge they had to
:11:43. > :11:47.leave it for a free vote. There is no way they could have avoided it
:11:48. > :11:50.because the issue itself was so central and seminar and strategic to
:11:51. > :11:55.the country as a whole and his party. What I fear, Gavin, is not
:11:56. > :11:59.just the war in the Conservative Party, I fear about the perception
:12:00. > :12:03.of the stability of British politics as a whole. If you look at it from
:12:04. > :12:09.my point of view in Germany, we worry that if Britain can be a
:12:10. > :12:11.predictable culture in the next few years, because on top of the
:12:12. > :12:15.referendum, we have Cameron's decision not to stand for election
:12:16. > :12:21.in 2020. Once the referendum is over there will be holy war about
:12:22. > :12:25.accession to come. I was in Scotland recently and people were talking
:12:26. > :12:29.about how growth in the Scottish economy has been damaged, they say,
:12:30. > :12:33.because there was a referendum. Because people held back on
:12:34. > :12:38.investment. I talked to an Economist this week. He said never mind the
:12:39. > :12:40.result, we will see lower growth because of a referendum, because
:12:41. > :12:46.people are holding back on investment. You deal with a lot of
:12:47. > :12:48.businesses. Is that true? I forget who said economists are put on earth
:12:49. > :13:08.to make astrologers look respectable... In the 1985
:13:09. > :13:10.Quebec referendum is, when I was a boy in Canada, all of the five major
:13:11. > :13:13.banks were in Montreal. They moved to Toronto. The economy of Quebec
:13:14. > :13:16.never recovered from the sovereignty movement. I think Britain has a
:13:17. > :13:24.bright future within or outside of the EU. I think this is a short-term
:13:25. > :13:27.concern. The issue for me is what happens in the long-term
:13:28. > :13:36.economically. That is where the uncertainty lies. For me, the
:13:37. > :13:43.certainty lives if we stay in. With France and Germany, the GDP can
:13:44. > :13:47.never catch up with the debt. If France or Italy hit the rock they
:13:48. > :13:53.are aiming for, everyone will have to bail them out. Surely the
:13:54. > :13:59.financial crisis showed that G20 and wider countries had to step in. In a
:14:00. > :14:04.globalised system, if the UK was outside of France and Germany
:14:05. > :14:07.stumbled, we would all be affected. We would not have the same
:14:08. > :14:11.responsibility. Frustration for me as this is where we see the real
:14:12. > :14:15.discrimination in the EU between member states. We almost France and
:14:16. > :14:21.Italy would be treated differently to how Greece is treated. 50% youth
:14:22. > :14:25.unemployment, hospitals closed. That is real austerity. Are you
:14:26. > :14:30.suggesting that if the UK pulls up the drawbridge and with this
:14:31. > :14:35.referendum in France, that the UK would not be obliged to help? They
:14:36. > :14:41.need to for self-interest. Beyond the rhetoric of it, I think pulling
:14:42. > :14:47.up the drawbridge is an absurd suggestion. Britain is a global
:14:48. > :14:50.trading nation. Precisely. It needs France and Italy. But we would not
:14:51. > :14:54.have the same obligation that we would have as a member of the EU
:14:55. > :15:00.towards member states. In exactly the same way that earlier this year,
:15:01. > :15:05.and economists, who knows how reliable, a pretty specific figure
:15:06. > :15:10.of 1.8 billion as the UK figure to help on board Turkey as an accession
:15:11. > :15:14.state. I think it is almost certain that if France and Italy, with their
:15:15. > :15:18.enormous debt problems if they go off the rails, they would have to do
:15:19. > :15:21.something incredibly drastic not to at this point. That is their
:15:22. > :15:25.direction of travel. We are much more likely to end up bailing them
:15:26. > :15:32.out. Do we get affected if we're not in the EU? Yes. This is more about
:15:33. > :15:38.the Department of fear again. It is about what might happen based on
:15:39. > :15:42.your opinion. It is a legitimate possibility... The French and
:15:43. > :15:46.Italians are in debt... But there are a lot of leaps of faith here
:15:47. > :15:50.that by pulling out things will be different etc and this will happen
:15:51. > :15:55.imminently. The problem is so much of this boat is about speculation.
:15:56. > :15:59.Do you think if we left the EU we would be more likely to be allowed
:16:00. > :16:04.the French and Italians? I do not think we would be less likely. To
:16:05. > :16:10.bring this back to where we started, do any of you see there will be a
:16:11. > :16:13.major realignment in British politics after this vote? Or do
:16:14. > :16:18.think the parties will kiss and make up because they have to? There will
:16:19. > :16:26.be a period of uncertainty between now and the next five years. If that
:16:27. > :16:31.impinges of investment, who knows. Nigel Farage is saying it will help
:16:32. > :16:37.Ukip, that is his prediction. But at a short-term thinking. We don't care
:16:38. > :16:44.which party will benefit like Ukip. We need a more serious setup of
:16:45. > :16:49.political stability. Think the ability to form our own trade
:16:50. > :16:54.agreements and look to old friends and allies outside the EU will
:16:55. > :16:57.redefine the nature of politics. Ironically, that might help the
:16:58. > :17:03.Brexit case that there will be a more predictable way will stop but
:17:04. > :17:07.the time that we get new trade deals, what will happen to our
:17:08. > :17:11.economy and secondly, if the referendum is something like 52 to
:17:12. > :17:16.48 either way, it will not end the discussion. It is kind of like what
:17:17. > :17:21.will happen -- what happened in Scotland. It will not be a
:17:22. > :17:26.definitive answer. People will say what about a second referendum and
:17:27. > :17:31.that increases the uncertainty. Is the question about who will vote,
:17:32. > :17:35.who goes to the polls? I get the sense that those who want to leave
:17:36. > :17:39.much more fired up about it than those who wish to stay, because for
:17:40. > :17:45.those who wish to stay, the EU is not that great better the devil you
:17:46. > :17:50.know? One thing polls disagree on is those who are determined to Vote
:17:51. > :17:54.Leave are more likely to vote and they are more likely to talk about
:17:55. > :17:58.it with their friends, more likely to turn out, even if it is
:17:59. > :18:03.inconvenient for them, if they cannot find their ballot card, if
:18:04. > :18:06.they cannot get to the polling station without it being
:18:07. > :18:09.inconvenient and so forth. That perfect turn out to an extent. The
:18:10. > :18:13.biggest thing which will affect turnout is whether or not people
:18:14. > :18:18.think it is a done deal or whether people think it is close. The
:18:19. > :18:24.trouble of Mina was implying, if we have a very close result on a very
:18:25. > :18:27.low turnout, then whichever side wins will say that is the result,
:18:28. > :18:36.and whichever side loses will say is that the jet at? And also what
:18:37. > :18:40.happens to our economy? -- is that legitimate. Many countries trade
:18:41. > :18:44.without a trade agreement at all. We have no trade agreement with China.
:18:45. > :18:48.President Obama says we will be at the back of the queue, there is no
:18:49. > :18:56.trade deal with the US at the moment. It was ridiculous. There is
:18:57. > :18:59.no -- it was an empty threat. I think we have exhausted this topic!
:19:00. > :19:01.The glamour of air travel disappeared long ago,
:19:02. > :19:04.aided in great measure by al Qaeda, the 911 hijackings and attempts
:19:05. > :19:07.to use cosmetics and even shoes to hide explosives in the air.
:19:08. > :19:09.Now the disappearance of the Egyptian airliner
:19:10. > :19:11.bound from Paris to Cairo - whatever the precise cause -
:19:12. > :19:15.What more can be done to make airlines safe?
:19:16. > :19:23.In Egypt, they're all kinds of conspiracy theories, what do you
:19:24. > :19:26.make it first of all? It is impossible to speculate about what
:19:27. > :19:32.happened, but the impact will be huge either way. Whether this is a
:19:33. > :19:36.mechanical failure, what it will mean for EgyptAir, what it means for
:19:37. > :19:42.Airbus, what it means for our trust in air travel is one thing,
:19:43. > :19:47.especially as we have had a series of mechanical failures. If it is a
:19:48. > :19:51.terrorist attack then everything from security at Charles de Gaulle,
:19:52. > :19:58.and all so different airports and what it means. Some people say
:19:59. > :20:00.you've let those who work in the airport and increasingly people are
:20:01. > :20:05.saying for Muslim workers in airports. We feed into that fear,
:20:06. > :20:08.that guilt by association. You are guilty until proven innocent,
:20:09. > :20:15.however, there is a real terrorist threat and we cannot deny that. We
:20:16. > :20:18.had the Russian Metro Jet plane which was shot down last year, and
:20:19. > :20:23.the impact it had an Sharm el-Sheikh, it is a real blow, in
:20:24. > :20:27.addition to the human tragedy we are seeing. In terms of terrorism, and
:20:28. > :20:32.the uptick we have had in attacks and being able to terrorise people,
:20:33. > :20:37.everything from we still take off our shoes, what this will mean to
:20:38. > :20:41.air travel. If there is any proof that a device was put on board, what
:20:42. > :20:45.this will mean for sweeping aeroplanes. It is impossible to do
:20:46. > :20:50.it with a plane taking off every minute at Heathrow. The psychology
:20:51. > :20:54.of people travelling generally and also airport procedures. It is all
:20:55. > :21:01.too soon to speculate. We had an incident in the UK this week with
:21:02. > :21:04.the Manchester United game being cancelled because of a bum a device
:21:05. > :21:08.which turned out to be false. 70,000 people had to be evacuated. Yes, it
:21:09. > :21:13.is amazing how security services are getting better and better at dealing
:21:14. > :21:17.with these situations, but also our sense of risk and the way we deal
:21:18. > :21:22.with risk is not as good as it used to be. Look at a country like Iraq.
:21:23. > :21:26.We had 200 people died this week from terror attacks. That is the
:21:27. > :21:30.real failure. We see countries like Iraq, Libya and Syria which are
:21:31. > :21:37.failing their citizens in protecting them. But we have a very difficult
:21:38. > :21:41.time in factoring in risk. I spoke to an expert who said 2016 has been
:21:42. > :21:46.a really safe year so far, even when you include what ever has happened
:21:47. > :21:51.here. Statistics is one thing but how you feel is different. If you
:21:52. > :21:55.quote statistics, considering the number of people who travel and the
:21:56. > :22:00.number of airlines which take off and land every day, this is a
:22:01. > :22:03.minimal event which does not register on the statistical scale,
:22:04. > :22:11.but it is the psychology of it, I agree. On the other hand, given time
:22:12. > :22:14.for this incident to pass into the past, people will then again use
:22:15. > :22:19.their instinct and say we need to travel, we want to get to foreign
:22:20. > :22:22.destinations, we want to have our holidays. It will mostly affect
:22:23. > :22:31.countries which are already suffering. Like Egypt. It is one of
:22:32. > :22:35.the most important sources of income for Egypt. It even if you look at
:22:36. > :22:38.the more Western Europe in nations, something could happen again,
:22:39. > :22:43.mechanical failure could strike fear in the hearts of people or there
:22:44. > :22:47.might be a terrorist attack on planes destined for Spain. Who
:22:48. > :22:52.knows? Unfortunately, we have to live with the fear factor, it is the
:22:53. > :22:57.way of the world. One thing you have to factor into the complexity of
:22:58. > :23:01.this, when things happen to developing countries, they react
:23:02. > :23:07.differently to developed countries. I was a correspondent in 1999 when
:23:08. > :23:14.an aircraft crashed en route to Cairo. That investigation, the
:23:15. > :23:18.Egyptians said to the National Transportation Safety Board, we do
:23:19. > :23:23.not have the resources, it is in international waters, can you
:23:24. > :23:32.conduct the investigation? They determined it was the flight officer
:23:33. > :23:38.who downed the plane. The Egyptians said we are going to do our own
:23:39. > :23:42.investigation. In the end, there were two conclusions. The Americans
:23:43. > :23:45.said it was a wilful downing by this first flight officer, and the
:23:46. > :23:50.Egyptians said it was a mechanical error. It became an issue of
:23:51. > :23:59.national pride, that clouded the ability to come to a logical
:24:00. > :24:01.conclusion. I think the Americans believed, the evidence of the
:24:02. > :24:04.flight's movement in its last period suggested it was not a mechanical
:24:05. > :24:13.failure, there was a deliberate downing, much like the Germanwings
:24:14. > :24:18.flight. The point being that it does cloud the discourse and particularly
:24:19. > :24:23.as Mina said, the damage to the fragile economy of Egypt, as it
:24:24. > :24:27.tries to recover from the instability of the Arab Spring and
:24:28. > :24:35.all these terrorism acts, really is enormous. I think part of where this
:24:36. > :24:40.really hurts Egypt is when you have 90 million people and so much
:24:41. > :24:44.unemployment, and this seed of terrorism flowering throughout, the
:24:45. > :24:49.unemployment caused by these incident leaves more young
:24:50. > :24:54.disaffected people vulnerable. And it becomes a vicious circle. We have
:24:55. > :24:59.a couple of minutes left. One must never lose sight of the human
:25:00. > :25:04.tragedy which affects individuals. Sometimes in our efforts to find out
:25:05. > :25:07.what it means, we skirt past that, and we mustn't. Once we sympathise
:25:08. > :25:12.with those involved profoundly, we must think about what it means more
:25:13. > :25:17.widely for us, whether it is a terrorist attack or not. What it
:25:18. > :25:22.means for us living our lives. And that extent, it does not matter
:25:23. > :25:27.whether it is an accident or terrorism. We must remember that
:25:28. > :25:31.aviation is a safe form of transport and it has enjoyed a pretty safe
:25:32. > :25:38.period. We fly more than ever and it is increasingly safe. We must not
:25:39. > :25:43.allow whether it is an accident or an act of terror, we must not let
:25:44. > :25:49.either put us off the increasing and improving way of life we have that
:25:50. > :25:54.has given birth to higher quality of life, longer life expectancy, a
:25:55. > :25:58.better quality standard of living. These things come about because of
:25:59. > :26:01.transport and improved technology. We must not let our way of life be
:26:02. > :26:03.shaken. Thank you. That's it from Dateline
:26:04. > :26:05.London for this week. You can comment on the programme
:26:06. > :26:07.on Twitter @gavinesler. We're back next week
:26:08. > :26:09.at the same time. Please make a date
:26:10. > :26:11.with Dateline.