:00:23. > :00:23.Hello and welcome to Dateline London.
:00:24. > :00:25.Which British political party is in most trouble -
:00:26. > :00:28.the Conservatives, whose leader will not stay, or Labour whose
:00:29. > :00:33.And Britain's vote to leave the European Union -
:00:34. > :00:35.but how, when, and with what consequences?
:00:36. > :00:38.My guests today are: Marc Roche of Le Point and Le Soir,
:00:39. > :00:41.Stephanie Bolzen of Die Welt, Polly Toynbee of the Guardian
:00:42. > :00:46.and Iain Martin former editor of the Scotsman now with CapX.
:00:47. > :00:48.Both the Conservative and Labour parties face leadership elections
:00:49. > :00:54.With both parties also deeply divided - which is in a worse state?
:00:55. > :00:57.Labour where Jeremy Corbyn is unwilling to quit as leader -
:00:58. > :00:58.or the Conservatives where David Cameron
:00:59. > :01:19.Let's start with the Conservatives. I don't think anyone saw this
:01:20. > :01:25.coming. Incredible, seismic, historic. I
:01:26. > :01:28.think this will sound slightly outlandish. I think the
:01:29. > :01:33.Conservatives, bizarrely, despite every thing that has happened with
:01:34. > :01:36.Michael Gove knifing Boris Johnson, the Conservatives are in rather a
:01:37. > :01:40.good place. You can see what is happening, which is very going to
:01:41. > :01:45.have a ferocious leadership battle and then they're going to coalesce
:01:46. > :01:49.around the winner. At the moment that looks like trees are made,
:01:50. > :01:54.possibly Andrea Leadsom or Stephen Crabb, and the Tories will do what
:01:55. > :01:57.they've done so often in their history. They are reimagining their
:01:58. > :02:01.future and reinventing themselves. They will have a new leader and that
:02:02. > :02:12.leader will go off and try to do the deal with the EU. The Labour Party
:02:13. > :02:16.is facing something quite different. It is facing an existential crisis.
:02:17. > :02:21.It is almost certainly dead already, past tense. In Scotland. It has Ukip
:02:22. > :02:27.on its tail in the North of England. And Wales. And Wales. And it
:02:28. > :02:34.struggles in the South and a strong in London. So what is the point of
:02:35. > :02:38.the Labour Party. I think people this weekend, Labour people who I
:02:39. > :02:42.know, I really thinking they will have to do something very, very
:02:43. > :02:45.radical, beyond just changing the leader. They need to build a new
:02:46. > :02:50.movement and encourage moderate Labour voters to join us something.
:02:51. > :02:53.I wonder if there are people within Labour who say they admired the
:02:54. > :03:02.Conservatives because they get on with it and knife people. I'm not
:03:03. > :03:08.making that up. They are really good at knifing people and conspiracies.
:03:09. > :03:12.They have a profound self interest, those who finance them, those who
:03:13. > :03:17.support them. They know exactly who they are and what they are for.
:03:18. > :03:27.They are for power and money. They don't seem to cohere around a
:03:28. > :03:30.single idea, do they? Labour thinks it is for the people
:03:31. > :03:34.you don't have the power and the money, therefore the people left out
:03:35. > :03:40.of power and money unless Labour is in power. If you dig about what they
:03:41. > :03:43.did last time it was a huge filter the public sector, tremendous
:03:44. > :03:48.improvement in the NHS, schools, nurseries for the first time. In a
:03:49. > :03:52.minimum wage, there is a long list of Labour's achievements and that is
:03:53. > :03:55.what Labour is. Social solidarity. Do you worry
:03:56. > :03:59.about the other thing people say? Do you worry they want some people in
:04:00. > :04:01.the Labour Party wants to make a point, they don't want to be in
:04:02. > :04:06.Government? The Tories interestingly went
:04:07. > :04:11.through a stage like this when they appointed Iain Duncan Smith and
:04:12. > :04:15.William Hague as a catastrophic leader, because they were so bitten
:04:16. > :04:20.by this virus. This anti-law of virus. What will be interesting to
:04:21. > :04:24.see whether this virus remains of whether they really do. To Theresa
:04:25. > :04:29.May was nominally on the remains side but the fire still burns in the
:04:30. > :04:34.belly of an awful lot of the Tory party that just says we want out,
:04:35. > :04:38.out, out, and every sort of way. What kind of art, we don't know.
:04:39. > :04:43.They never had a plan but it is for brochures.
:04:44. > :04:46.Do think the party now needs somebody who campaigned for
:04:47. > :04:52.brochures the four Brexit? Possibly Andrea Leadsom?
:04:53. > :04:55.It is a little harsh to say there are only interested in power and
:04:56. > :04:59.money. They are interested in the nation, so there is something in the
:05:00. > :05:06.traditional... I don't think thereof the same but there is a long and not
:05:07. > :05:09.necessarily noble, but long tradition of the Tories believing
:05:10. > :05:16.that the country does need a Government and that out of this
:05:17. > :05:21.chaos a Government will emerge. The Tories are a lot less sentimental
:05:22. > :05:25.about these things. If you look at all of the tear-stained attempts to
:05:26. > :05:29.resign from the Shadow Cabinet last week, this is getting rid of the
:05:30. > :05:35.worst Labour leader in the history of politics. It is an absolute
:05:36. > :05:39.no-brainer that the guy should go. The SWP has taken over the Labour
:05:40. > :05:42.Party. This is a national emergency and there are grown-up people,
:05:43. > :05:47.members of the Shadow Cabinet crying or finding it difficult to resign at
:05:48. > :05:52.this point... That is quite unfair. You had the
:05:53. > :05:54.most spectacular multiple resignations of virtually everybody
:05:55. > :05:58.that has ever happened in any party and can say they were have
:05:59. > :06:01.reluctantly. They did it with glee. And they were weeping for the state
:06:02. > :06:05.of the party. He is still there. If he doesn't
:06:06. > :06:09.step down over the weekend somebody will come forward, probably and
:06:10. > :06:14.illegal, and will challenge. That. The readership process which is
:06:15. > :06:18.necessary. I am wondering how you're watching
:06:19. > :06:23.this great events? Fantastic. As a journalist or a
:06:24. > :06:27.citizen? Thursday just before 12 o'clock I
:06:28. > :06:31.was watching the press conference by Boris Johnson with six minutes to 12
:06:32. > :06:36.and he said the sentence, I'm not going to be the one who is going to
:06:37. > :06:39.stand up for this leadership election. Everything that was
:06:40. > :06:45.happening between Thursday morning and Friday lunchtime there was a
:06:46. > :06:48.very funny cartoon in the Telegraph saying to university students
:06:49. > :06:51.talking to each other, and one saying, I am studying politics.
:06:52. > :06:57.Because covers Thursday morning until Friday lunchtime. It is just
:06:58. > :07:06.so brilliant in a way. Because it is so dramatic. It is Shakespearian.
:07:07. > :07:09.When you come from Germany, where politics is dull, it is very
:07:10. > :07:14.entertaining. We liked German politics but that is
:07:15. > :07:20.a whole other discussion. It is a French farce. Treason,
:07:21. > :07:24.Shakespearian tragedy, I think it is unfortunately not the time to have
:07:25. > :07:30.that because Europe is facing a real crisis. I feel personally I hope to
:07:31. > :07:37.Theresa may makes it because she will bring... Shears remain but
:07:38. > :07:44.Eurosceptic. She is very highly thought of in France, the way she
:07:45. > :07:49.saw the Calais problem. She is a moderate, and I think she will bring
:07:50. > :07:56.stability and finally push on this button of article 50. Which the
:07:57. > :08:00.British seem petrified to push. You have two. The people are
:08:01. > :08:06.decided, let's go on with it and let's leave the Europe.
:08:07. > :08:08.I do think in the course of the conversation we plunge Drayton to
:08:09. > :08:11.the particular agonies of the political parties to say nothing of
:08:12. > :08:18.Ukip itself splitting and abiding. Total chaos.
:08:19. > :08:20.They're the only one who united. They are one member and he agrees
:08:21. > :08:28.with himself. All of that but it is quite fitting
:08:29. > :08:30.that at this cataclysmic moment, the most shocking thing that has
:08:31. > :08:34.happened in this country since the Second World War it is quite fitting
:08:35. > :08:37.that all of politics should be thrown up into the air. Disquiet
:08:38. > :08:49.right that every party should be seized by Nexus then shall crisis.
:08:50. > :08:55.-- seized by an existential crisis. I feel unwelcome in your country
:08:56. > :08:59.because of the attacks on foreigners, Poles, Muslims who are
:09:00. > :09:03.your own citizens. It is disgusting. And that is not coming in a vacuum.
:09:04. > :09:08.It is the leave campaign and Thai immigration which has created this
:09:09. > :09:13.problem. Let's move on to that. The vote to
:09:14. > :09:18.leave the EU was clear that when can this happen? How difficult will the
:09:19. > :09:22.process be? Could Scotland actually bring it to a halt? Let's discuss
:09:23. > :09:26.that and pick up on that point. How sour do think the political
:09:27. > :09:29.atmosphere is, because we have had... Police are saying they are
:09:30. > :09:34.getting more reports of basically racist attacks on people because
:09:35. > :09:37.they are foreigners. Do you buy into that?
:09:38. > :09:42.To an extent. The same applies to the financial markets. People need
:09:43. > :09:47.to be calm and responsible. There are risks and the attacks you
:09:48. > :09:53.describe are completely apparent. I think quite a lot of people who
:09:54. > :09:58.voted leave our as appalled by it as remain boaters are and a lot of
:09:59. > :10:01.people who voted leave, like myself, distance ourselves at the time from
:10:02. > :10:07.the notorious for Irish poster. The breaking point poster.
:10:08. > :10:15.-- the notorious Nigel Farage poster. Leave is not one unified
:10:16. > :10:19.bloc and I think the point is, the difficulty lies at the extreme.
:10:20. > :10:23.Between the remain boaters who cannot accept that they lost and
:10:24. > :10:27.think it will be picked which it is not. Brexit in one form or another
:10:28. > :10:32.will happen. That is very clear. And those on the other side, the leave
:10:33. > :10:36.means leave side, led by Ukip, who will look for betrayal and treachery
:10:37. > :10:40.everywhere. In between that is the great mass of the country, many
:10:41. > :10:45.people from both political parties, large parts of the media, public
:10:46. > :10:49.servants, who recognise that Britain is going to leave the question
:10:50. > :10:57.becomes, how do we read in an orderly and civilised fashion?
:10:58. > :11:01.Why is there no plan? You had the whole campaign to have a plan to
:11:02. > :11:06.leave will stop them is no plan? You don't know what to do, you don't
:11:07. > :11:10.even want to push the article 50 to start negotiations. And more than
:11:11. > :11:18.anything you put Europe in a mess. The good news with Europe is that we
:11:19. > :11:23.can go on with other things, go on with political union, we are free
:11:24. > :11:30.now from the British. I tell you who put Europe in this
:11:31. > :11:34.mess. It has been up current since the disaster of the single currency
:11:35. > :11:40.which has been a social catastrophe in southern Europe. An economic
:11:41. > :11:45.failure. It has been apparent since then and then further through the
:11:46. > :11:49.migrant crisis and the pressures on borders that the European Union
:11:50. > :11:53.needed at some point in the last five years, post-Eurozone crisis, to
:11:54. > :11:58.change into something fundamentally different. And it did not.
:11:59. > :12:03.Nobody said that Europe is biopic. No body has said it does not need
:12:04. > :12:10.reform. Everybody gets infuriated. This is true across Europe. But I
:12:11. > :12:14.don't think that there was an honest campaign. People were lied to and it
:12:15. > :12:18.is very good... If Boris Johnson and Michael Gove both crash and burn
:12:19. > :12:23.they deserve it. They live, they relied on the promises they made,
:12:24. > :12:28.they lied in disgraceful doubling in and Thai immigration is stuff that
:12:29. > :12:33.was going on. They did it themselves. The piece that Michael
:12:34. > :12:38.Gove wrote in the Daily Mail was a shocker and I think unfortunately
:12:39. > :12:43.the pollsters are telling us that without doubt, immigration,
:12:44. > :12:48.antiforeigner sentiment was what motivated.
:12:49. > :12:53.This is the London media bubble. Wait a minute. This is what the
:12:54. > :12:57.polls does tell us. It could not win the economy and the switch to
:12:58. > :13:03.migration that was the key point. You say that as though the boaters
:13:04. > :13:09.are stupid. The reality is the polls happen pointing to this for years.
:13:10. > :13:11.But no one asked the British voters about this experiment one
:13:12. > :13:18.immigration. That Britain was comfortable with immigration,
:13:19. > :13:22.Britain has throughout its history integrated and adapted to historical
:13:23. > :13:34.change but there is something very different between that and 350,000
:13:35. > :13:38.people a year. I am afraid the sour mood we're
:13:39. > :13:43.talking about here is the same now on the continent. The reaction you
:13:44. > :13:49.are seeing now are very very harsh. Just yesterday the Slovakian took
:13:50. > :13:53.over the presidency and the kind of comments received from this part of
:13:54. > :13:56.Europe by the Hungarian Government, the Ontarians I going to probably in
:13:57. > :14:01.the autumn a referendum on immigration. -- Hungarians. There
:14:02. > :14:09.was a referendum in the Netherlands on something Europe related. The
:14:10. > :14:15.main reason we saw why people voted for leave was control. This feeling
:14:16. > :14:20.is the same on the continent. And that is why it is about the euro,
:14:21. > :14:24.and the joint currency and about immigration. That is why it is not
:14:25. > :14:27.just the turmoil that the UK is in but Europe is in the same terror
:14:28. > :14:33.more now. Can I pursue this point? Pauly said,
:14:34. > :14:39.and this is common now, people are calling politicians liars and saying
:14:40. > :14:41.they actually lied. Was this referendum, then, giving that we've
:14:42. > :14:46.got thousands of people marching this weekend to say we want to stay
:14:47. > :14:48.in the EU and some of them are saying we were so badly misinformed
:14:49. > :14:52.and there is something wrong with the vote, do you take that view or
:14:53. > :14:56.do you take The View that actually people voted on back of control and
:14:57. > :15:01.it is an overwhelming majority in favour so this is a perfectly
:15:02. > :15:05.reasonable democratic exercise? Some people are saying it was not a
:15:06. > :15:10.reasonable democratic exercise. It was democratic.
:15:11. > :15:17.A lot of which the thinking going on. -- wishful thinking. In Europe a
:15:18. > :15:23.lot of headlines are saying there is going to be in exit from the Brexit.
:15:24. > :15:28.Let's be clear about what the remain campaign did.
:15:29. > :15:31.I am a pro-European but anti-EU Budget if I wanted to stay in the EU
:15:32. > :15:35.over the appalled by how they are run the campaign amid no positive
:15:36. > :15:40.case for the European Union. You talk about lies, look at the
:15:41. > :15:46.complete garbage from the Chancellor of the Exchequer couple of years ago
:15:47. > :15:51.promising instant tax rises. Where are they, they're not going to
:15:52. > :15:54.happen. -- a couple of weeks ago. He said he is going to have to
:15:55. > :16:00.abandon his... I think it is an appalling tactic to say that by 2020
:16:01. > :16:05.we had to be in surplus. It was unthinkable. Real top posterity. Now
:16:06. > :16:10.he himself has had to abandon that because there is no chance even with
:16:11. > :16:15.his extreme austerities, of doing it. This shows that what the remain
:16:16. > :16:20.people said, and it was called Project fear, is probably true.
:16:21. > :16:24.Everyone is expecting us, the Government of the Bank of England is
:16:25. > :16:29.expecting us to go into a period of recession. We hope it is not as bad
:16:30. > :16:33.as feared. Maybe we will weather it. It is very frightening. Lots of
:16:34. > :16:36.people jobs will go. What is really frightening is that
:16:37. > :16:42.there will not be any progress in the negotiation between Britain and
:16:43. > :16:49.the EU until the French and the German election. That leaves us
:16:50. > :16:54.until November. Another year. A complete vacuum for everyone. And
:16:55. > :16:58.this is... If you say it often enough that it
:16:59. > :17:02.is frightening and terrifying and there will be a disaster, economic
:17:03. > :17:05.history tells you that it can be self-fulfilling. Those of us who
:17:06. > :17:09.weren't favourably been recognised that there are risks. The risks in
:17:10. > :17:12.terms of the global economy even without Brexit but if you look on
:17:13. > :17:17.the positive side, behind-the-scenes at what is happening, look at the
:17:18. > :17:21.lobbying. Germans are being incredibly sensible about this. Look
:17:22. > :17:25.at the lobbying from the German car industry. Look at the way in which
:17:26. > :17:29.the city which was warning it was going to go to Paris, which is not
:17:30. > :17:35.going to happen. Look at how the city has reacted to the result. I
:17:36. > :17:39.was bigotry CEO the other day who told me, and a friend had told me
:17:40. > :17:45.that this was the end of the city and now says, well, actually there
:17:46. > :17:55.are opportunities in London as well. -- I was speaking to a CEO.
:17:56. > :18:02.Halle as a desperate employment need for skill. I have been talking to
:18:03. > :18:06.employers, sometimes who are exporters. You'd think that is good
:18:07. > :18:10.but actually they are saying no, we have to import a lot of materials
:18:11. > :18:15.and we have to push our price is 10% because of the fall in the sterling
:18:16. > :18:20.has been so sharp. It is the Brexit who will suffer,
:18:21. > :18:27.not London people, not the city. This will take two or three years.
:18:28. > :18:32.It is going to require reasonable negotiations. There is a reasonable
:18:33. > :18:36.deal to be done, compromises will have two be made by the next by
:18:37. > :18:42.Minister. But I think we are only ten days into this. And already we
:18:43. > :18:45.have seen that the prediction of a massive financial crisis or crash
:18:46. > :18:50.was overblown. I am not sure about that.
:18:51. > :18:56.The question in the end is, is there going to be something, a solution
:18:57. > :19:01.being found for different stages for the UK? Which might be something
:19:02. > :19:05.that Norway has. You have already had leaks from the German treasury
:19:06. > :19:09.that they have some plans. What you could do. Because the German
:19:10. > :19:12.Government is... There seems to be a distinct lack of
:19:13. > :19:18.them here. They have had their plans. 27 to
:19:19. > :19:23.decide what is going to happen. The German Government wants Britain to
:19:24. > :19:27.stay. You can also ask the question, maybe we have to find something
:19:28. > :19:31.different. Different tiers and systems of membership. And keep
:19:32. > :19:35.Britain on board. Is there any possibility of having
:19:36. > :19:44.our cake and eating it? We can both be in the single market...
:19:45. > :19:48.The French will not want... The politics in this country as
:19:49. > :19:53.such, with Ukip sitting there ready to pounce on Tory and Labour voters,
:19:54. > :19:58.if there is any betrayal at all of us pulling up the drawbridge and
:19:59. > :20:00.controlling your own immigration, is that a possibility?
:20:01. > :20:05.It is not surprisingly it on the 24th of June at all came out and
:20:06. > :20:11.they said no, you won't get anything. In is in and out is out.
:20:12. > :20:14.On the same day, the first ideas were...
:20:15. > :20:20.It is perfectly possible that you end up with something like Britain
:20:21. > :20:23.as a member of the EEA but with some concessions on migration and
:20:24. > :20:30.actually it is not true that free movement is a condition of EEA.
:20:31. > :20:43.You can Budget in all sorts of ways. There are quotas on migration.
:20:44. > :20:47.-- UK and fudge it. It is possible to have a concession
:20:48. > :20:50.in free movement which there are quotas and possibly go back to the
:20:51. > :20:56.free market situation. But only of the British people
:20:57. > :21:02.continue paying into the big Budget. You see no wiggle room. Do you see
:21:03. > :21:06.any wiggle room with Scotland, where the First Minister saying, we might
:21:07. > :21:09.take a different tack because we voted to stay?
:21:10. > :21:14.We would welcome Scotland with open arms. And Northern Ireland joining
:21:15. > :21:18.with the Irish public, open arms. Scotland is Europe and wants to be
:21:19. > :21:21.part of Europe. If they are independent they will be joining and
:21:22. > :21:26.they will be a head of the queue. Not at the bottom. Why do you keep
:21:27. > :21:30.saying, wants to be part of Europe? This illustrates the problem
:21:31. > :21:34.perfectly. Many of us who voted to leave the European Union are proud
:21:35. > :21:39.Europeans who believe in European civilisation. The European Union
:21:40. > :21:44.is... 50 years of peace.
:21:45. > :21:49.We gave prosperity. That was Nato. It is France and Germany making
:21:50. > :21:55.peace together. Now you're talking about compromise
:21:56. > :22:00.and trite and eyes risk. What for? What was this madness for if we end
:22:01. > :22:04.up with some sort of watch where we're not in there. I got really
:22:05. > :22:08.strongly yesterday when we had powerful memorials about the Battle
:22:09. > :22:13.of the Somme, amazing. Young men dressed up as the soldiers who died,
:22:14. > :22:17.all over the country. It was incredibly moving, designed by an
:22:18. > :22:24.artist. And we all felt very deeply. Everybody across Europe lost people.
:22:25. > :22:27.We lost 20,001 day and everybody was saying, never again. Deeply felt as
:22:28. > :22:32.it is in France and Germany and everywhere. And suddenly here we are
:22:33. > :22:38.with the one thing that has delivered peace. We're international
:22:39. > :22:43.isms all over Europe, trade Europe, trade barriers, trade wars possibly.
:22:44. > :22:46.The EU was there to stop that. You think that moderately those
:22:47. > :22:51.don't feel what you feel when they see those pictures? Of course they
:22:52. > :22:56.do. Absolutely not. I will tell you who has got it wrong. Your model
:22:57. > :23:00.built by growth federalists has failed. It has failed. Created a
:23:01. > :23:06.single currency... It is a success. The row is still
:23:07. > :23:09.there. The still one of the richest parts of the world. Everyone wants
:23:10. > :23:17.to be in Europe. It is a success. We are the great
:23:18. > :23:20.upholders of democracy. You look at European democracy and think, what
:23:21. > :23:26.an achievement. And the more people we race within it the more solid it
:23:27. > :23:29.becomes. We are the beacon of the world for civilisation and Britain
:23:30. > :23:33.doesn't want to be part of it. Let us pick up that point about
:23:34. > :23:37.democracy because you could say, if you came from planet Mars and
:23:38. > :23:41.Spectator columnist that in the past couple of weeks, we've had a Prime
:23:42. > :23:44.Minister who said he will stay and isn't, a chance of who said he's
:23:45. > :23:49.going to introduce an austerity Budget and won't, you've
:23:50. > :23:55.characterised Michael Gove and the leave campaign as liars. We've got a
:23:56. > :23:58.political class which people for the last days which people of not been
:23:59. > :24:01.happy with. I've using anything in the past few weeks than they should
:24:02. > :24:08.think, this is great. Yes. In Europe. France, Germany,
:24:09. > :24:17.those countries will create the cause and ideas. To put...
:24:18. > :24:22.Britain is in Europe. You're talking about the European Union. It is
:24:23. > :24:25.culturally impossible. Of course we will trade and cooperate. Our
:24:26. > :24:28.neighbours and friends. There is a deal to become that can satisfy both
:24:29. > :24:33.sides of people are calm and reasonable. The European Union
:24:34. > :24:36.project has had it. I am surprised about your idealism
:24:37. > :24:41.because I'm not so sure everybody now on the continent is talking
:24:42. > :24:45.about not pushing integration forward. They are not going to push
:24:46. > :24:49.integration forward. We can't know that the British have
:24:50. > :24:55.gone because they have gone. We can go forward with great success.
:24:56. > :25:02.As you just said we have an election in Germany next year and France
:25:03. > :25:05.other is a limbo everywhere. There is a very significant body of
:25:06. > :25:12.opinion in France that does not want the Europe that you want.
:25:13. > :25:15.The polls show that if there was a question, the French would vote to
:25:16. > :25:18.stay. How far as the shaken of German
:25:19. > :25:29.politics now? Angela Merkel seems this coming voice. German politics
:25:30. > :25:35.are making advances. Yes, of course. And Angela Merkel is
:25:36. > :25:40.the centre of it. Everyone is blaming her now because she has been
:25:41. > :25:46.treating the Greeks very badly. Many people think. In the Euro crisis.
:25:47. > :25:50.And also she has opened the floodgates for the refugees. So a
:25:51. > :25:54.lot of people say she is to be blamed, that Brexit happened at all.
:25:55. > :26:03.Isn't that the point? Isn't that the point that the European Union is a
:26:04. > :26:07.moving target. And so, people of that it is all very risky to go to
:26:08. > :26:10.leave but it was also risky to stay in because we do not know what the
:26:11. > :26:13.European Union will look like, particularly given the dissension in
:26:14. > :26:18.the East? Of course. You can see the forces at
:26:19. > :26:26.work here. Exactly the same on the continent. And you will see many
:26:27. > :26:30.clubs to be built. Belgium, France, Germany and on the other side the
:26:31. > :26:33.Eastern European states. There was a deeper and deeper gap between these
:26:34. > :26:37.two and the continent is actually split as well so the UK's third
:26:38. > :26:42.between remain only. The continent is split between east and west.
:26:43. > :26:45.Don't let us forget that we brought those countries and to bring them in
:26:46. > :26:48.within the remit of democracy and the Conservatives were strongly for
:26:49. > :26:56.bringing them in because we did not want them to fall back under the
:26:57. > :27:03.Russian influence. We are creators and protectors of democracy. That
:27:04. > :27:04.Britain is decided... OK. We will leave it there.
:27:05. > :27:08.That's it for Dateline London - you can comment on the programme
:27:09. > :27:11.on Twitter @gavinesler - and also engage with today's guests.
:27:12. > :27:13.We're back next week at the same time.
:27:14. > :27:15.Make a date with Dateline London.