:00:27. > :00:33.Hello and welcome to Dateline London. Does infighting mean the
:00:34. > :00:37.Labour Party is finished as a potential British government for
:00:38. > :00:40.many years to come? Donald Trump does not really suggest gun-owners
:00:41. > :00:57.should shoot Hillary Clinton. Good to see all my guests. The
:00:58. > :01:02.British Labour Party is split on so many different ways it is difficult
:01:03. > :01:08.to know where to begin. There are many different members who want
:01:09. > :01:11.different things. Is it safe to assume that Labour will not be
:01:12. > :01:18.challenging to four minutes government in the United Kingdom? I
:01:19. > :01:23.am afraid that Labour have counted themselves out for the time being.
:01:24. > :01:29.It is in a terrible state like in the 1980s. It took them for
:01:30. > :01:34.elections to get into power. If they can do it in only two that would be
:01:35. > :01:40.miraculous. They have accidentally elected a leader in by a series of
:01:41. > :01:51.accidents who is unelectable and has the worst personal ratings of any
:01:52. > :01:59.opposition leader ever. He is the lowest of them all. There is no
:02:00. > :02:02.chance that he could be elected as Prime Minister but he has a Donald
:02:03. > :02:06.Trump like fan base of people convinced that only all of the
:02:07. > :02:14.Labour Party got behind could make it. But it is not so. It is a case
:02:15. > :02:17.of ideology, though and not that sure there is that much difference,
:02:18. > :02:24.but the realists against the fantasists. Perhaps other than on
:02:25. > :02:28.Trident, you would struggle to put your finger on a big ideological
:02:29. > :02:32.difference between the two sides. Owns Smith has quite radical
:02:33. > :02:38.policies which would be maxed by stuff the party. -- Owen Smith. It
:02:39. > :02:43.is about the mystique of Jeremy Corbyn that many people in the
:02:44. > :02:50.Labour Party do not understand. The new arrivals have stars in their
:02:51. > :02:54.eyes about him. What is happening in the French left with Francois Hull
:02:55. > :03:08.being the most unpopular? The same problem. In France there are no
:03:09. > :03:13.Trots going into the Labour Party. The economy is doing badly and
:03:14. > :03:20.President Hollande is seen as a weak president. Nicolas Sarkozy has taken
:03:21. > :03:27.on the mantle of the crusade he is launching. The Socialist Party is
:03:28. > :03:34.cut-off and their only hope is the centre-left is the minister of the
:03:35. > :03:45.economy. Unlike Britain where at least there is something is today,
:03:46. > :03:51.where you could see progress in moderate Labour and central lists,
:03:52. > :03:56.in France it is stuck. One thing that is different is that no one
:03:57. > :04:00.toxin the French left about a social movement. President Hollande wants
:04:01. > :04:11.to hang onto power and the people that support her more power. That is
:04:12. > :04:16.all that they want. It is the extreme left wing and the Communist
:04:17. > :04:21.Party. There are no entrance into the two main parties by the extreme
:04:22. > :04:26.left in France. You have an electoral system that binds people
:04:27. > :04:32.together and are is even worse. Labours should be to parties and the
:04:33. > :04:38.Conservative Party should be two parties, the Ken Clarke progressive
:04:39. > :04:45.and the anti-European nutcases, they should be to parties and so should
:04:46. > :04:48.Labour. Which I before to split the Labour Party and our first past the
:04:49. > :04:59.post system destroys any new entrant. That is what is fascinating
:05:00. > :05:07.about the Labour Party is it -- Labour Party it is an example of
:05:08. > :05:14.democracy working against voting for new members. You think of the UK and
:05:15. > :05:19.the ideal of the mother of Parliament and the mother of
:05:20. > :05:27.democracy, and then you see the courts blocking people from voting.
:05:28. > :05:34.A group of disaffected members, not the NEC, went to the court and the
:05:35. > :05:41.court said this is a private club, sort yourself out. But the fact that
:05:42. > :05:47.there is a move to block people from voting. I am not saying it is wrong
:05:48. > :05:53.or right, is just how people are tried to work out the technicalities
:05:54. > :05:58.of eight. If you have hundreds and thousands of Trotsky and ensure
:05:59. > :06:05.this, which is pretty niche, to stop them from voting it shows that what
:06:06. > :06:08.is happening is not only a crisis of ideology in the Labour Party but a
:06:09. > :06:17.crisis of the technicalities of the Labour machine and the political
:06:18. > :06:20.system in general. I asked why is it that the Right can sort out their
:06:21. > :06:25.difficulties and get rid of our Prime Minister quickly and the left
:06:26. > :06:30.cannot. You said that the left is an open process while the right wants
:06:31. > :06:37.to get results. You could send that to the Oxford book of quotation, I
:06:38. > :06:44.like that. It is true. The left, in this country anyway, it's all about
:06:45. > :06:56.the process. How can people turn up and give a speech and suddenly have
:06:57. > :07:03.carbonates invented as a word. Trotsky we have heard. Blairites and
:07:04. > :07:16.brown nights. Owen Smith looks like President
:07:17. > :07:22.Hollande, like a better looking younger brother. I hope that he will
:07:23. > :07:30.be more successful than President Hollande. Knowing we were going to
:07:31. > :07:41.talk about this, a US general said after we went into Afghanistan that
:07:42. > :07:45.we should declare victory and get out. I think it is time for the left
:07:46. > :07:51.to declare its factories and reformulate itself, because there
:07:52. > :07:59.have been considerable progress of victories in my lifetime on social
:08:00. > :08:04.issues. We should declare victory. I do not know how the Labour Party
:08:05. > :08:09.holds together. Those who forget their history are condemned to
:08:10. > :08:14.repeat it, but those who remember it too well I condemned to repeat it as
:08:15. > :08:19.well. I do not see how this party holds together as a unit. The only
:08:20. > :08:26.thing that keeps it together is the electoral system. They would split
:08:27. > :08:31.tomorrow if they were not bound together. That has done the
:08:32. > :08:33.Conservative Party Hamas well. The Labour Party should change the
:08:34. > :08:41.electoral system when they were in power. We are seeing the longing for
:08:42. > :08:47.new parties to come up, whoever it is. There is a need to be
:08:48. > :08:53.represented. In this country there was Ukip, for instance. 4 million
:08:54. > :08:58.people voted for Ukip and they court once it because of our unfair
:08:59. > :09:04.system. There should be a far left party that should be able to get
:09:05. > :09:11.people into Parliament. I think it is about ideology and the difference
:09:12. > :09:15.in style. It is less the particularities that there is
:09:16. > :09:22.something about left-wing dogma, particularly in the UK, that has the
:09:23. > :09:30.virtue and then things develop like with Jeremy Corbyn. I think it is
:09:31. > :09:34.about a legacy of left-wing thinking which has inherent morality, while
:09:35. > :09:42.right-wing thinking doesn't. It is more practical. But that is seeing
:09:43. > :09:46.things not doing things. It is about presenting yourself in a certain
:09:47. > :09:52.way. That some people are not political parties and they just want
:09:53. > :09:57.to see the country run properly. This is where I not entirely sure
:09:58. > :10:02.that Jeremy Corbyn... He is unelectable in a general election
:10:03. > :10:07.but I do not think his fans are only from the Labour Party. There is
:10:08. > :10:14.something about him that might translate... It might translate in
:10:15. > :10:19.the sense that people think that he looks like you might believe in
:10:20. > :10:23.something. There is a lot of resentment and part of the
:10:24. > :10:29.population, not only because of the political system but also the fact
:10:30. > :10:36.of the financial crisis and that it is continuing, people cannot get
:10:37. > :10:40.jobs according to the qualifications, and that attracts a
:10:41. > :10:46.lot of anger and bosses are giving themselves a 10% pay increase. That
:10:47. > :10:54.is why I think Jeremy Corbyn represent something. It is not to
:10:55. > :10:59.when, but it is a protest vote. There is no sign that Jeremy Corbyn
:11:00. > :11:05.has brought anybody into the Labour side who ever voted anything other
:11:06. > :11:09.than left in this country. He has to get somebody who has voted
:11:10. > :11:16.Conservative in the past two support him and there is no chance. We can
:11:17. > :11:20.move on. There were signs of some relief in the siege of Aleppo this
:11:21. > :11:25.week that the Syrian war continues. It can be difficult to follow who is
:11:26. > :11:29.making progress. Does this all in Turkish relations with Moscow
:11:30. > :11:35.represent a major shift in what effect will this have on the refugee
:11:36. > :11:39.crisis? Whatever you think is going on in Syria, there is so much going
:11:40. > :11:45.on around Syria that is causing people to die. Aleppo is the epitome
:11:46. > :11:50.of that. It is a city that has paralysed by four or five players.
:11:51. > :11:58.There is the Assad resume, the rebels, Turkey, Iran in the
:11:59. > :12:04.background. Aleppo has become this tragic flash point of how the Syrian
:12:05. > :12:13.crisis is a proxy for other agenda is, but also how President aside has
:12:14. > :12:20.managed to Lethbridge international agendas. -- President Assad. Turkey
:12:21. > :12:27.and Syria had a meeting and they are coming closer together, the BBC
:12:28. > :12:34.called it an alliance of misfits. They world say things that look like
:12:35. > :12:37.they are cooperating, but really is it owing to happen? The largest
:12:38. > :12:44.concession that came out of it was that Russia was going to allow a
:12:45. > :12:47.three-hour window for aid convoys to come into Aleppo, which the Turkish
:12:48. > :12:52.to not think is long enough and they do not think that they are going to
:12:53. > :12:59.do it anyway. The other bit of propaganda was that there are going
:13:00. > :13:05.to be harder on Isis. They can agree on that. But they are relevant when
:13:06. > :13:12.it comes to Aleppo. -- they are not relevant. They shake hands and it is
:13:13. > :13:16.on TV and it looks like Russia and Turkey coming together, that they
:13:17. > :13:21.are not tackling what is good to make the situation easier in Aleppo.
:13:22. > :13:25.I was wondering whether that was game played to say to the Americans
:13:26. > :13:31.that we do not get on very well with them at the moment, please handed
:13:32. > :13:39.over to us. There is an element of that. We seem to be in an era where
:13:40. > :13:46.there is no ideology. It is just strong man. There is a strong man in
:13:47. > :13:51.Vladimir Putin and another in the Turkish Prime Minister. They have
:13:52. > :13:56.been at all since the tight shot down the Russian jet last year. This
:13:57. > :14:09.is a perfect moment for the Turkish Prime Minister to go to the lakeside
:14:10. > :14:15.near St Petersburg and to remind people, which is a good photo Op for
:14:16. > :14:19.Putin who is always taking every advantage, to remind the west that
:14:20. > :14:23.Nato may not be a perfect alliance. I think there is more but that the
:14:24. > :14:28.mirrors to do with Syria. The constant thing about the tax and
:14:29. > :14:36.Syria is the effect of fighting against Isis is the Kurds. President
:14:37. > :14:42.Erdogan will not have them playing a leading role if you can avoid it
:14:43. > :14:47.because that will strengthen the situation. There is a lot going on
:14:48. > :14:51.here. Vice President Biden is supposed to be going to Turkey to
:14:52. > :14:57.play a different role there. While all of this goes on, this big power
:14:58. > :15:01.game, more people are dying. We have watched the horror this week of
:15:02. > :15:09.chemical attacks. I am never sure why it is worse to be killed by
:15:10. > :15:14.chemicals than a barrel bomb fool of appalling weapons, but it is
:15:15. > :15:19.internationally recognised and that is not seem to make much difference.
:15:20. > :15:23.We sit here in Britain looking at it with horror and people are saying,
:15:24. > :15:28.do something, but all that has been proposed is that we drop more bombs
:15:29. > :15:34.on them. That does not seem very helpful. There is no shortage of
:15:35. > :15:38.bombs being dropped. That is not an answer. We do have some special
:15:39. > :15:41.forces on the ground, although we do not know what they're doing or how
:15:42. > :15:48.many there are fairer doing any good, but we've is very clear how we
:15:49. > :15:53.in could intervene to any good purpose. The deal were tacky about
:15:54. > :16:00.what to do with refugees, whether that can survive? It is the only
:16:01. > :16:04.deal on offer. It suggests deal and we shouldn't have done it, but it is
:16:05. > :16:09.the only deal at a time that Europe is in crisis. It cannot take any
:16:10. > :16:17.more refugees without creating a populist backlash, and at a time
:16:18. > :16:23.where there is Brexit. Aleppo is making it worse because there will
:16:24. > :16:28.be more refugees. The refugee question should be a UN question and
:16:29. > :16:37.America and Shirley and Britain should take more refugees. For
:16:38. > :16:47.Europe, whatever happens if President erred again. There are two
:16:48. > :16:53.reasons why the economy is doing badly in Turkey. The Euro and taking
:16:54. > :16:59.more refugees. Donald Trump is guilty of what might be called
:17:00. > :17:03.Jeremy Clarkson syndrome. When Donald Trump says something because
:17:04. > :17:08.as I read it claims it is a joke or he has been misinterpreted by
:17:09. > :17:11.hostile media. Is it a total misrepresentation to suggest this
:17:12. > :17:17.week that he encouraged gun orders to shoot Hillary Clinton? That is
:17:18. > :17:20.what a lot of people thought. I know a lot of those people, including the
:17:21. > :17:31.guy behind individual whose jaw dropped. My interpretation of its,
:17:32. > :17:34.having watched it over and over, is that he was referring to court by
:17:35. > :17:39.Thomas Jefferson about the tree of liberty needing to be watered from
:17:40. > :17:45.time to time with the blood of pigeons and tyrants. It is summoned
:17:46. > :17:51.to the militia movement to be on guard if there is a democratic
:17:52. > :17:57.Senate and president as to what kinds of judges and gun rights. Many
:17:58. > :18:04.of his commercial is not been paid for by the Republican party but by
:18:05. > :18:09.the national rifle is to. They are quite effective. The polls are bad
:18:10. > :18:17.for him but they have been affected. That is what he meant I think. We
:18:18. > :18:26.can get the Minutemen to get rid of that somehow. Without thinking, I do
:18:27. > :18:30.not think years summoning. It is not like these dark web websites that
:18:31. > :18:38.the militia guys go to, but it is the sort of thing that Timothy
:18:39. > :18:43.McVeigh... I was in Oklahoma City when the bomb went off. This has
:18:44. > :18:50.never gone away from the underbelly of America. People looked at the
:18:51. > :18:56.patterns of gun ownership they would see that most American families do
:18:57. > :19:02.not own a gun. Most of the weaponry is owned by a third or 40% of the
:19:03. > :19:09.population and their own a lot. They believe that Sunday the government
:19:10. > :19:14.will become a terrorist. I think you give Donald Trump too much credit. I
:19:15. > :19:22.don't think it says things that clear or defined. He reminds me of a
:19:23. > :19:28.quote by the Joker in the Batman Returns, he said like a dog chasing
:19:29. > :19:34.a car I do not know what to do if I catch it. But what will he do with
:19:35. > :19:39.it? I don't think when he says these things that he has that kind of
:19:40. > :19:45.coherent thought of who he is reaching out to. I think it has
:19:46. > :19:51.become clear, because his gaffes are becoming more frequent. I thought it
:19:52. > :19:56.was impossible that he would be able to alienate his supporters, but it
:19:57. > :19:59.is really beginning to happen. A few things in succession would prove
:20:00. > :20:11.that he doesn't know why saying these things because he is going to
:20:12. > :20:20.hurt himself. The attack on the parents, which you do not do. The
:20:21. > :20:28.third most recent thing is the Clinton incitement and then saying
:20:29. > :20:36.Obama founded Isis. Hello Clinton treated this week that Obama did not
:20:37. > :20:43.find Isis. -- sent a message this week saying that Obama did not find
:20:44. > :20:48.Isis. That is what the debaters. I do not think that child knows what
:20:49. > :20:58.he is talking about. I think it does in a way, but he is a psycho path
:20:59. > :21:04.and a narcissist. He is also a bully and a tyrant in the making. The rest
:21:05. > :21:09.of the world looks on and wonders how he could get close, that he
:21:10. > :21:17.could get near to the nuclear button. How could it be that America
:21:18. > :21:24.that thinks of itself as the Seine and constitutional place, think of
:21:25. > :21:36.its self-image as a spreader of liberty, it has bridges this
:21:37. > :21:43.monster. It is terrifying. He reminds me of Marie Le Pen. She is
:21:44. > :21:54.the leader of the national front, the daughter of the founder. The
:21:55. > :22:03.more incredible lies that her father told, he managed to get 25% of the
:22:04. > :22:11.vote and get the social soaked. It is dangerous. As we saw with Brexit,
:22:12. > :22:15.the poll always. Ready Le Pen is doing well by distancing herself
:22:16. > :22:21.from the politics of her father while still building on some of that
:22:22. > :22:27.support. She is done it well is that because of that. She got rid of the
:22:28. > :22:37.anti-Semitic attack to concentrate on the Muslim attack. She is more
:22:38. > :22:40.subtle. If you are good to be successful on the right you need to
:22:41. > :22:48.blow the dog whistle and not trumpet. Trump and the pen just say
:22:49. > :22:57.it out right. Anyone who is anti-Semitic knows that MIDI Le
:22:58. > :23:11.Pen... Is the Republican Party in worse shape than the Labour Party is
:23:12. > :23:17.in Britain? No. Being president is not being an elected dictator. There
:23:18. > :23:23.is the possibility and the likelihood is that the Republicans
:23:24. > :23:25.will remain control of the House of Representatives, regardless how
:23:26. > :23:31.badly Trump does they may lose the Senate. The Republican party, like
:23:32. > :23:37.the Conservative Party, they will come back from Donald Trump. If
:23:38. > :23:47.Donald Trump losers, by a landslide as the Poles estimate, he will
:23:48. > :23:51.probably lose in the electoral college by a landslide. The
:23:52. > :23:55.Republican Party will bounce back and continue to practice but they
:23:56. > :24:01.have been practising for 25 years, a practical approach to politics.
:24:02. > :24:05.Block everything a Democratic president does, bring him closer
:24:06. > :24:09.ruin the presidency. As they have come close to doing with Barack
:24:10. > :24:12.Obama, they have made it impossible for him to be as effective as he
:24:13. > :24:20.could've been. The same thing with Bill Clinton. I do not think that a
:24:21. > :24:28.Trump defeat that I see today is likely will kill the Republican
:24:29. > :24:33.Party. It is actually possible that I will never see a Labour government
:24:34. > :24:39.in my lifetime. It is true, unfortunately. But it is not Donald
:24:40. > :24:43.Trump's defeat that will kill the Republican Party, it is the fact
:24:44. > :24:50.that he exists and is running that is killing the party. They are
:24:51. > :24:55.responsible for him. Donald Trump is the Republican Party's owned
:24:56. > :25:05.creature from the dark lagoon. The fact he exists as the most
:25:06. > :25:12.dangerous. The American electorate created Donald Trump. He will get
:25:13. > :25:21.40% of the votes. If there was no Donald Trump, those votes would go.
:25:22. > :25:23.They exist. If they were finding a voice and organise politics, then
:25:24. > :25:29.what I was talking about earlier about the militia movement, Lee, who
:25:30. > :25:34.were born in America, would they really fearful because it would have
:25:35. > :25:40.greater wind in its sale. I would rather they words reveal politics
:25:41. > :25:44.than the dark web. That is all from Dateline London for this week. We
:25:45. > :25:51.are back next week at the same time. Goodbye.