:00:23. > :00:25.Hello and welcome to Dateline London in a week where Donald Trump went
:00:26. > :00:28.to Mexico, the British Government met to clarify what's next on Brexit
:00:29. > :00:33.and more harrowing pictures of thousands of desperate
:00:34. > :00:41.With me is Steve Richards from The Independent, Analisa Piras -
:00:42. > :00:45.an Italian writer and film maker, the Sudanese writer Nisreen Malik,
:00:46. > :00:58.So, Donald Trump has been visiting Mexico, a surprise to some,
:00:59. > :00:59.considering some of his more outspoken comments
:01:00. > :01:09.So, how did it all go down? McGregor, you have just come back.
:01:10. > :01:13.Give us a sense of the drum machine in America now. I think there is no
:01:14. > :01:17.Trump machine. It is a very seat of the plan of campaign that he is
:01:18. > :01:21.running. Extremely unorthodox, without much organisational support
:01:22. > :01:27.from the Republican Party or the Republican National committee. Sort
:01:28. > :01:31.of doing it on his own, to a degree from Trump Tour and improvising. I
:01:32. > :01:35.think this makes a good trip was a last-minute improvisation and he
:01:36. > :01:38.followed it up with a serious immigration speech, where he
:01:39. > :01:43.reiterated his earlier proposals to build a gigantic wall separating the
:01:44. > :01:47.two countries. I do not think there is a Trump machine. I think the
:01:48. > :01:50.campaign is sputtering about but he is still within striking distance of
:01:51. > :01:56.Hillary Clinton and the debates are still ahead of us. I think it is
:01:57. > :01:59.still up for grabs but Hillary is doing better at the moment. Given
:02:00. > :02:02.what he has said about Mexico up until this point, are you surprised
:02:03. > :02:07.that he went and what he said when he got there? Well, I cannot
:02:08. > :02:11.understand his strategy was big for him explain it. I was surprised that
:02:12. > :02:15.he went. He got a tonne of attention, he likes attention. But
:02:16. > :02:18.what was odd was that he sounded very conciliatory towards Mexico and
:02:19. > :02:22.Mexicans when he was there and then he flew across the border and made a
:02:23. > :02:26.very harsh speech in which he was promising to keep Mexicans out. So
:02:27. > :02:30.there is not a real coherent strategy that you can see.
:02:31. > :02:34.Everything he does is surprising and unorthodox, and the idea of building
:02:35. > :02:38.a wall is still his signature proposal and he is still behind at
:02:39. > :02:43.100%. You have also just come back from the United States. What do you
:02:44. > :02:45.make of it? One thing that was really interesting that I noticed
:02:46. > :02:49.when I was there is that we, I think, across the pond, have this
:02:50. > :02:52.view that Donald Trump has a support because he says controversial things
:02:53. > :02:56.and says the things that people don't feel like they can say. But I
:02:57. > :03:02.think it is something a little more subtle than that, which is I think
:03:03. > :03:06.they just feel like he talks like they talk. Like, you're sitting
:03:07. > :03:11.around a table. And there is a deep suspicion and, sorcerer, intolerance
:03:12. > :03:16.of the polished, calculated politicians speak. -- and
:03:17. > :03:20.intolerance. I heard a very large group of people just to say that he
:03:21. > :03:24.just sounds like my dad, or just sounds like, you know, my grumpy
:03:25. > :03:29.uncle from down the road. Do you want bad for president? I don't
:03:30. > :03:34.think people think in that linear way, and that is not patronising. It
:03:35. > :03:37.is similar to a lot of people voted for breakfast. They know what they
:03:38. > :03:41.like but they do not necessarily thinking what that will result in,
:03:42. > :03:46.in terms of foreign policy or a domestic economic anything. We are
:03:47. > :03:50.Trump has been very effective in a way that cannot be dismissed if not
:03:51. > :03:54.in the sort of working-class people have concerns or a white people have
:03:55. > :03:59.concerns that Trump is reflecting, it is in the direct, straight in the
:04:00. > :04:02.veins way he has been communicating. Which is something I think other
:04:03. > :04:09.politicians should pause and think about. Steve, he went to Mexico,
:04:10. > :04:13.said one thing and came back and said another and also claimed that
:04:14. > :04:19.they are going to pay to build the wall. Well, he says a lot of things
:04:20. > :04:21.that are contradictory. And that was a very revealing sequence, then
:04:22. > :04:24.something quite diplomatic in Mexico and then going for them again when
:04:25. > :04:28.he got safely back into the United States. But none of this matters,
:04:29. > :04:34.because of what we have already been discussing. There is a new art form
:04:35. > :04:39.in politics, which is people who are actually as detached from ordinary
:04:40. > :04:43.voters as any other politician has discovered a way of making them feel
:04:44. > :04:49.they are connected to them. We have them in this country, Nigel Farage,
:04:50. > :04:53.Boris Johnson, they are actually kind of freakishly unusual lives
:04:54. > :04:56.that the lease but when voters hear them, they think they can relate to
:04:57. > :05:01.those people. And that is the Trump magic. It is not what he says, but
:05:02. > :05:04.how he says. Even though he is a multimillionaire celebrity, and has
:05:05. > :05:08.been for decades, voters feel that in some way he connects with them
:05:09. > :05:14.and speaks with them, from voters. Whether it is enough, who knows? I
:05:15. > :05:17.would not be surprised, and I am not surprised by anything in politics at
:05:18. > :05:23.the moment. But it is a relatively new art form, this. People who are
:05:24. > :05:27.actually part of an elite appearing as if they are not. Are we seeing
:05:28. > :05:33.this in Europe, Annalisa? Yes, I must say that is not exactly new as
:05:34. > :05:39.an artform because I must claim that Italy invented it 20 years ago when
:05:40. > :05:48.we give the world Silvio Berlusconi. That somehow played exactly this
:05:49. > :05:50.kind of lines that do not really matter in the content, but the
:05:51. > :05:54.matter in the way people receive them. In other words, it is not what
:05:55. > :06:01.he says, it is what people here. What people here, this is an
:06:02. > :06:04.authentic man coming is not a professional politician, it is a guy
:06:05. > :06:07.like me. He has been successful in his life, he has become a
:06:08. > :06:12.billionaire, he will make me rich too. This is exactly what Berlusconi
:06:13. > :06:18.brought to Italy, and I am afraid that the one thing that I see
:06:19. > :06:25.happening again today is that people underestimate the power of this kind
:06:26. > :06:28.of politics. The only antidote, at least in Italy, has been
:06:29. > :06:31.information. Trying to make him accountable for what he says,
:06:32. > :06:36.because when he starts not delivering what he promises, after a
:06:37. > :06:41.while people understand. But then there must be an accountability
:06:42. > :06:45.machine in place. And in America and other countries, we do not see that
:06:46. > :06:48.happening. It could be too late by that point as well, could it not? I
:06:49. > :06:52.just want to ask you all the big question. The latest polls are
:06:53. > :06:58.showing that both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are neck and neck.
:06:59. > :07:03.Do you think Trump and when? I think he could, because things are
:07:04. > :07:07.happening around democratic world. That would be very odd, but it is
:07:08. > :07:11.possible. In the current, fought off, volcanic climate in which we
:07:12. > :07:15.are living. I think it remains unlikely, partly because he cannot
:07:16. > :07:19.even work on the assumption he is going to get some of the Republican
:07:20. > :07:24.vote that normally would go to the Republican candidate. So, I work on
:07:25. > :07:28.the assumption Hillary Clinton will win, but she is part of that
:07:29. > :07:32.earlier... You're right about Italy, but the United States has usually
:07:33. > :07:37.gone, especially if it is a Democrat, someone or every word is
:07:38. > :07:41.controlled and it looks contrived, and that no longer applies. She has
:07:42. > :07:46.had to loosen up a bit. She is going to have to loosen up a bit more, I
:07:47. > :07:50.think, in this new world we are in. But I assume he is going to lose,
:07:51. > :07:59.but everything is possible at the moment. I think you made when. And
:08:00. > :08:04.how feel about that? Well, it is going to be a disaster for America
:08:05. > :08:08.and a disaster for the world, so I think we need to fasten your seat
:08:09. > :08:15.belts because, if Trump wins, we are going to have a very turbulent world
:08:16. > :08:18.to live in. And those who have just recently returned and have perhaps a
:08:19. > :08:22.sense of flavour. I think it is highly unlikely that he will win.
:08:23. > :08:28.The polls were you see Hillary and Donald Trump neck and neck are those
:08:29. > :08:30.that are among the undecideds, and so I think that also there is a
:08:31. > :08:35.certain tendency amongst posters to try to make a story out of the
:08:36. > :08:43.polls. Nobody wants to show you a 90%, 10% poll, that is not the
:08:44. > :08:46.story. And we know what happens, sometimes they are completely wrong.
:08:47. > :08:49.Yes and I think there has been an industry of Paul stranded in the
:08:50. > :08:52.neck and neck, but you look at the sample size and the fact that the
:08:53. > :08:54.undecideds and I think the polls are not necessarily accurate. It is
:08:55. > :09:00.highly unlikely that he will win. However, if it does not when it does
:09:01. > :09:03.not mean that Trump, the conglomerate of problems and ideas
:09:04. > :09:06.that created Trump has gone away. And I think it would be a mistake to
:09:07. > :09:08.think this was some sort of aberration, nightmare before the
:09:09. > :09:13.election and then everything is back to normal with her back in the
:09:14. > :09:19.driving seat. It is going to have quite serious, toxic repercussions.
:09:20. > :09:23.I think the polls, state by state, shall Hillary with a substantial
:09:24. > :09:26.lead. But there is no question and whatsoever that Trump Goodwin and he
:09:27. > :09:30.answered simply as the debates. It is going to be one-on-one. If she
:09:31. > :09:35.makes one misstep and comes across the runway in front of a huge
:09:36. > :09:38.audience, something that could be replayed endlessly, she could lose
:09:39. > :09:44.the whole thing right there and then. So, it could put it on that?
:09:45. > :09:47.Oh, absolutely. All Trump needs of the bus and he could whether to
:09:48. > :09:48.believe she is significantly ahead at the moment. There will be plenty
:09:49. > :09:50.more in the next few weeks. It's been a busy week
:09:51. > :09:53.as politicians in the UK return The Labour Party is still
:09:54. > :09:57.in the throes of a leader election and the British cabinet met
:09:58. > :09:59.to consolidate thoughts on Brexit with the Prime Minster Thereas May
:10:00. > :10:14.restating the Brexit means Brexit. Steve, what are your thoughts? That
:10:15. > :10:18.certainly doesn't clarify anything, that statement she keeps on using
:10:19. > :10:25.dash breaks it means breakfast, it means nothing at all. We are, I
:10:26. > :10:28.think, in the sense that it looks as if they are going to play the
:10:29. > :10:32.British Cabinet... The British Cabinet are going to play pretty
:10:33. > :10:35.horrible negotiation. They are going to aim the utopia, where they are
:10:36. > :10:37.going to say we must have constraints on freedom of movement,
:10:38. > :10:41.that is absolutely, I think it has been described as a red line. But we
:10:42. > :10:45.have the Chancellor of the Exchequer still making clear that the British
:10:46. > :10:51.economy wants access to the single market. Others are saying that to
:10:52. > :10:55.happen anyway, because trade is of mutual interest. But it will not
:10:56. > :11:00.because the rest of the European Union will not allow free access to
:11:01. > :11:04.the single market, and suddenly you can have a completely different
:11:05. > :11:08.arrangement when it comes to free movement of labour. So what we know
:11:09. > :11:13.is they are going to aim, the British government, hi. What we do
:11:14. > :11:16.not know is how the rest of the European Union will respond. And
:11:17. > :11:21.when we do, I think the British government will be in for one of its
:11:22. > :11:30.many, many shocks to come. Anna Lisa smiling and shaking your head! Yes,
:11:31. > :11:36.I mean, Britain needs to start understanding a little bit better
:11:37. > :11:39.the situation and have more realistic expectations. Without
:11:40. > :11:44.exaggerating, at the moment what Britain seems to expect as the same
:11:45. > :11:50.thing that a husband would tell to his wife. Look, I want to stay
:11:51. > :11:55.married but I want to be single. Right? Or do we have a deal? No,
:11:56. > :11:58.actually, we do not have a deal! That is what the European Union is
:11:59. > :12:05.then. If you want to stay on the single market, you will have to have
:12:06. > :12:08.freedom of movement. The two are not, you cannot separate them. At
:12:09. > :12:13.the moment, it seems that the British voters voted for breakfast,
:12:14. > :12:19.they were given a promise of something that is not on the table.
:12:20. > :12:23.And that is not going to change? There is not a chance that this is
:12:24. > :12:30.going to change. So, someone will start explaining to people that that
:12:31. > :12:34.deal is not on the table. How long there is a lack of clarity and this
:12:35. > :12:39.kind of hypocrisy going on, we do not know. I mean, it is an
:12:40. > :12:43.hypocrisy, it is a game that is not true, what is happening at the
:12:44. > :12:46.moment. Greg, I wanted to bring you endure. People outside of the UK
:12:47. > :12:50.looking at this, particularly Europeans, now that we want our cake
:12:51. > :12:54.and we want to eat it at the same time. How do you think it is viewed
:12:55. > :12:58.wider than that? Every place I went, every person I interacted with in
:12:59. > :13:01.the US, I was just there for quite a while, when they ask me about
:13:02. > :13:05.Britain the first thing on the mind was what in the world is going on
:13:06. > :13:09.there? It is not just the breakfast of which shocked them, it was the
:13:10. > :13:13.subsequent meltdown of the camera government and the Jeremy Corbyn
:13:14. > :13:17.position. -- it was not just bricks at which shocked them. People are
:13:18. > :13:21.baffled as to what the British want, because they do not understand the
:13:22. > :13:25.economic argument behind it and they are saying economic is paramount, so
:13:26. > :13:31.there is a lot of confusion in the world as to what this means. People
:13:32. > :13:36.really do not get it, I think. And certainly we are two months into it
:13:37. > :13:43.now, and there seems to be no clarity. It is baffling to the
:13:44. > :13:47.world. Is it damaging as well? Not so much as people are curious. The
:13:48. > :13:50.damage was done in the first 24 hours to the pound and we are seeing
:13:51. > :13:57.commercial real estate are doing poorly and firms not hiring. There
:13:58. > :13:59.is a lot of damage being done, but Britain's position in the world, I
:14:00. > :14:02.think, people are just flat out confused. They want to see some
:14:03. > :14:05.change, something positive coming out of it. I think there is some
:14:06. > :14:09.confusion. There is also not an insignificant amount of derision.
:14:10. > :14:13.People are slightly laughing at the UK as well, because the scale of the
:14:14. > :14:19.blunder is actually very clear to see. There has not been a
:14:20. > :14:22.commanding, authoritative figure that has shepherded the whole
:14:23. > :14:28.regular campaign. And I think that even though internally we, the
:14:29. > :14:33.British, might like to think that this has all been a wonderfully
:14:34. > :14:36.pristine exercise in democracy, it's kind of looks like a bit of a
:14:37. > :14:39.shambles on the outside. It has not been helped by the fact that we now
:14:40. > :14:42.have these war rooms, these war cabinets, about what breakfast is,
:14:43. > :14:46.how we are going to do it, what is on the table. And then you have
:14:47. > :14:51.debates about whether we should have a second referendum, and then you
:14:52. > :14:54.have demonstrations planned to have a cigarette -- second referendum,
:14:55. > :15:00.and you think it does not look like anybody knows what they are doing. A
:15:01. > :15:05.final word, Stephen, do you think it will happen? I think she... Someone
:15:06. > :15:11.used the phrase linear about somebody else. Was it about Hillary,
:15:12. > :15:15.I cannot remember? She is quite a linear politician. She is not
:15:16. > :15:19.devious. So she feels it is our responsibility to deliver that
:15:20. > :15:22.referendum result, even though she was a subdued remain supportive. So
:15:23. > :15:26.I think she will. I think she will trigger, and have to, because of her
:15:27. > :15:32.party anyway. So she will trickle Article 50 and we will be off. All I
:15:33. > :15:35.would say is that there are lots of other factors floating around which
:15:36. > :15:40.means it is not impossible that, in the end, we stay in. The majority of
:15:41. > :15:45.the House of Commons is to remain, the huge majority of the House of
:15:46. > :15:47.Lords, the First Minister of Scotland Nicola Sturgeon is
:15:48. > :15:50.threatening to hold a second referendum. There are all other
:15:51. > :15:56.factors floating around. But I have got no doubt that she, Theresa May,
:15:57. > :15:59.regarded as a duty to deliver the outfought. OK, let's move on to
:16:00. > :16:00.final topic today. It's a year since that picture
:16:01. > :16:03.of the body of three-year-old Syrian refugee Alan Kurdi washed up
:16:04. > :16:06.on a Turkish beach shocked the world His father says nothing has
:16:07. > :16:09.changed since then. This week, over 10,000 refugees
:16:10. > :16:22.left Libya in boats. So, what is happening and what is
:16:23. > :16:29.maybe not been done to prevent it? Italy bearing the brunt. Indeed.
:16:30. > :16:33.Italy is bearing the brunt, the situation is deteriorating by the
:16:34. > :16:36.day in Italy, because Italy has been left pretty much alone, and there
:16:37. > :16:42.has been a substantial contribution from the European Union to help with
:16:43. > :16:47.the hotspot, the centres for refugees, as it is not a task that a
:16:48. > :16:55.country can be left to deal with alone. 13,000 refugees only this,
:16:56. > :16:59.from Libya. The situation in Libya is deteriorating, with the Civil War
:17:00. > :17:07.getting worse with the fight between hundreds of different militias. Isis
:17:08. > :17:12.is keeping towards the south. The countries are in complete meltdown,
:17:13. > :17:16.we're starting to see climate change refugees, people that are leaving
:17:17. > :17:20.deserted places that are getting worse and worse because of climate
:17:21. > :17:25.change. So, the situation is absolutely tragic. It is horrendous.
:17:26. > :17:29.It is a tragedy that has no precedent in human history. And yet,
:17:30. > :17:33.we are witnessing a sort of conspiracy of silence. We have not
:17:34. > :17:37.been talking about it in Europe now for months. Like, if the problem had
:17:38. > :17:44.gone away. The problem has not gone away and there is only one solution,
:17:45. > :17:50.an international coalition to put in place means for a holistic kind of,
:17:51. > :17:56.consistent package that would help those countries cope with the crisis
:17:57. > :18:03.and the countries on the front line, Italy, Greece, to get more support
:18:04. > :18:07.from other countries. Politically, on one side, popular and on the
:18:08. > :18:11.other side with politicians not that popular. We just have to look at the
:18:12. > :18:14.example of Angela Merkel. To be honest, the evidence suggests it is
:18:15. > :18:18.not popular and that is why there has been this terrible silence. It
:18:19. > :18:23.was very interesting when Angela Merkel made her admirable early
:18:24. > :18:26.attempts to allow Syrian regime into Germany. Lots of leaders from other
:18:27. > :18:31.countries in Northern European countries initially were going to
:18:32. > :18:34.support her, some of the social Democrats, and then read all of the
:18:35. > :18:37.poll think that this was not popular, in spite of the emotional
:18:38. > :18:42.response to that terrible photo that you mentioned. And people are not
:18:43. > :18:46.doing anything about it. It is actually, when people said in the
:18:47. > :18:50.referendum campaign in the UK that this crisis helped the outside, I
:18:51. > :18:55.could not see this again. This is the biggest argument for a European
:18:56. > :18:58.army, union, because it needs international coordination. You
:18:59. > :19:04.cannot just leave one country to take it on. -- for a European Union.
:19:05. > :19:07.Angela Merkel could not do it on your own leader, the most powerful
:19:08. > :19:12.figure in Europe. So I think it is an advert for a strong, robust
:19:13. > :19:15.European Union coordinating a response. But we are long way from
:19:16. > :19:23.that, because of the political obstacles. It is almost like nobody
:19:24. > :19:28.wanted to. I disagree with both. With Anneliese it is utopian, or
:19:29. > :19:33.perhaps too idealistic, to expect a coordinated global response at a
:19:34. > :19:37.time when you see a major US presidential candidate talking about
:19:38. > :19:42.building was, you see... I disagree with you, Steve, I think the broker
:19:43. > :19:45.told was influenced greatly by the immigration crisis. I think that was
:19:46. > :19:53.probably the key thing in the last 12 months that convinced British
:19:54. > :19:56.voters to go that way. I do not see... The Syrian thing is
:19:57. > :20:02.different. The two were concluded, but immigration and asylum seeking
:20:03. > :20:04.are different. To read. There is an attitude of protectionism,
:20:05. > :20:08.xenophobia and we wanted to project what is ours that is rising in a lot
:20:09. > :20:12.of countries, so I do not see a coordinated response coming forward
:20:13. > :20:16.out of this mess. I agree with your analysis, that this is unprecedented
:20:17. > :20:20.in terms of numbers on school. Well, they will have to be. Because the
:20:21. > :20:24.United Nations said there will be 80 million people moving from the
:20:25. > :20:32.poorest areas of the world towards the West. What are you going to do?
:20:33. > :20:36.We are talking about 2.2 million people per year. Are we going to
:20:37. > :20:40.shut our eyes and let them down in the sea? I mean, on the 19th of
:20:41. > :20:44.September, there is going to be, I think, it is the first United
:20:45. > :20:48.Nations migration summit, and president Obama has called the Day
:20:49. > :20:52.after for a global leaders summit, to discuss this. I mean, this is
:20:53. > :20:57.probably the biggest challenge that humanity has ever faced. Really
:20:58. > :21:02.going to just look at our borders and shut them down? I think he is,
:21:03. > :21:06.is the answer, probably. That is what is going to happen. I think if
:21:07. > :21:12.you look at me most coordinated reaction on the part of the EU over
:21:13. > :21:15.the past while over the migration issue has been in the wrong
:21:16. > :21:19.direction. Instead of people coming together to try to coordinate the
:21:20. > :21:25.flaws of immigration coming into the EU, the EU has put together a
:21:26. > :21:30.package of about 150 million euros to give to African countries to make
:21:31. > :21:34.sure that the police internal flaws of emigration, before they get to
:21:35. > :21:39.countries like Libya that allow them to then cross the ocean. And so
:21:40. > :21:42.there has been a very effective scramble to manage the immigration
:21:43. > :21:47.issue, but it has been to outsource it to as many people as possible in
:21:48. > :21:53.North and East Africa. What you have them, that is kind of the jugular of
:21:54. > :21:59.the immigration crisis. If you look at where immigrants go through, and
:22:00. > :22:04.that is from places like Eritrea, Somalia, chart, Libya, even Nigeria,
:22:05. > :22:07.and to a large extent Syria, Michael Dugher East Africa and North Africa
:22:08. > :22:14.and then go to Libya and Brazilian kind of go up Turkey. And there are
:22:15. > :22:18.literally open-air prison camps in these countries, that are financed
:22:19. > :22:21.by the European Union, to ensure that these migrants do not make
:22:22. > :22:27.their way to Europe. How they are treated in terms of human rights,
:22:28. > :22:31.how they are treated in terms of health care is not their concern.
:22:32. > :22:34.And in terms of numbers, do we know? In terms of numbers, in terms of
:22:35. > :22:41.people just being nabbed randomly, between 1000 and 10,000 at a core at
:22:42. > :22:50.being arrested. There is a large open camp refugee prison in Kenya
:22:51. > :22:56.that we are looking at maybe 250,000 people. And then you have camps
:22:57. > :23:03.Libya, which is up to a quarter of a million. In Lebanon, in Jordan. And
:23:04. > :23:06.so these are... Yes, but his student represent them as they are mean
:23:07. > :23:12.nasty attempt by the European Union... It is not a nasty attempt,
:23:13. > :23:16.it is what it is. Steve is it better to stop somebody in a beach or in
:23:17. > :23:21.the middle of the sea? The Russian allies are -- are helping to
:23:22. > :23:26.rationalise the migrant flow in Africa rather than in when they're
:23:27. > :23:30.coming to Europe. People die in the sea. I am not think they are doing
:23:31. > :23:34.it in an aggressive, malicious fashion, but it is an indication of
:23:35. > :23:37.when Europeans to get together, they get together on these premises,
:23:38. > :23:41.rather than on the premise of helping those that have already
:23:42. > :23:45.arrived. That is not entirely true. For instance, in Jordan the European
:23:46. > :23:51.Union has helped the government to create jobs for Assyrians who were
:23:52. > :23:54.escaping from Syria, and to stay there in Jordan, where they can go
:23:55. > :24:00.back when the war is over. There is that as well, but... You yourself
:24:01. > :24:05.mentioned that there is, of course there is, and of course there is
:24:06. > :24:10.different initiatives. It is not a completely uniform picture
:24:11. > :24:14.throughout. But in terms of the vast majority of numbers, of people that
:24:15. > :24:18.have arrived in the EU, people who are languishing in open-air camps,
:24:19. > :24:22.people who have been stopped, borders have come down, agreements
:24:23. > :24:26.have been done with Turkey to sure that people from Turkey did not flow
:24:27. > :24:31.into the European Union. That is also the great majority of policy. I
:24:32. > :24:37.want to bring Greg back in. Annalisa mentioned Obama's migrants later in
:24:38. > :24:39.the month, are you optimistic that will achieve something and should
:24:40. > :24:44.this initiative baby have come sooner? No, I am not optimistic.
:24:45. > :24:47.Unfortunately, I see these summit meetings as well-intentioned but
:24:48. > :24:55.very repetitive and accomplished very little. I think Obama's
:24:56. > :24:58.intentions are good, but the US should have taken a lead role
:24:59. > :25:05.perhaps 18 months ago, or 24 months ago. I think we are seeing a massive
:25:06. > :25:08.failure of political will across the West, and unfortunately I think the
:25:09. > :25:11.politics are going another direction. We're going to the
:25:12. > :25:15.elections in Germany and France that will be shaped by this to a degree.
:25:16. > :25:21.I do not see anything positive coming from this, and Obama is on
:25:22. > :25:26.his way out. He is a lame duck at this point. We have a few seconds
:25:27. > :25:29.left. Are you optimistic about this? I am, because we are reaching a
:25:30. > :25:34.point in which we cannot really keep looking away. So, it is true that
:25:35. > :25:38.short-term politics dictate the fact that people are trying to be
:25:39. > :25:41.indifferent to this, but at the same time there is a growing awareness
:25:42. > :25:46.worldwide that unless we get all together and try to tackle this, our
:25:47. > :25:51.entire generation will be responsible for something that looks
:25:52. > :25:54.like a genocide. Thank you very much to all of my guests today. It has
:25:55. > :25:58.been good talking to you. Very good session. That is it for us this
:25:59. > :26:01.week. We will be back next week at the same time. You
:26:02. > :26:05.You can of course comment You on the programme on Twitter -