:00:00. > :00:33.Hello and welcome to Dateline London, the biggest decision of our
:00:34. > :00:37.lifetimes, Brexit, are we any clearer what it might mean? Is the
:00:38. > :00:41.Prime Minister any clearer? And Syria, any hope left? And Donald
:00:42. > :00:45.Trump promises in the next debate to get tougher with Hillary Clinton. If
:00:46. > :00:49.that's an admission he lost the first encounter, does it even
:00:50. > :00:52.matter? By guests are Alex Keene, a conservative commentator. Suzanne
:00:53. > :00:57.Grant, Brussels correspondent of the Irish times. There is Lee, a
:00:58. > :01:07.Sudanese writer and Greg Katz of the associated press. Brexit burst and
:01:08. > :01:11.100 days after the UK left the EU Kante may come up with a plan to
:01:12. > :01:14.persuade her own ministers, the Conservative Party, which begins its
:01:15. > :01:17.annual conference this weekend, the people of Britain and ultimately her
:01:18. > :01:21.negotiating partners within the EU. It is very slow, is it reasonably
:01:22. > :01:26.slow or should she have gone a bit faster somehow? It's funny, our last
:01:27. > :01:30.Prime Minister promised he would remain in office but break Article
:01:31. > :01:34.50 immediately and his acts were the other way around. I can understand
:01:35. > :01:37.in those circumstances when you are thrust into office, indeed even
:01:38. > :01:40.faster than she might have expected because we were supposed to have a
:01:41. > :01:44.leadership contest, we're only going to have a new Prime Minister two
:01:45. > :01:49.weeks ago on the original timetable, to take your time and evaluate the
:01:50. > :01:52.environment in a mature and considered weight and that
:01:53. > :01:56.characterises Theresa May all around, she is a considered and
:01:57. > :02:00.thoughtful person. I think that is probably to the good. If we are
:02:01. > :02:04.going to go through this process, even on the most neutral of use is
:02:05. > :02:10.traumatic, it is good to have someone who takes their time. --
:02:11. > :02:15.views. I would say this, I wanted us to leave the EU and I'm glad we
:02:16. > :02:18.voted the way we did, I, looking at the environment, think that Article
:02:19. > :02:22.50 isn't fit for purpose, it was never meant to be used and no one
:02:23. > :02:28.had a sense of who would negotiate on the other side, the side that won
:02:29. > :02:31.us not to leave the EU, and how they would corralled the interests and
:02:32. > :02:35.agreements of the 27 member states plus the European institutions. A
:02:36. > :02:39.bit of a delay on our side would look very mild to the attempts on
:02:40. > :02:42.the other side when the process gets going to co-ordinate their position.
:02:43. > :02:47.You don't speak for the other side but you report for it, so how is it
:02:48. > :02:51.seen in Brussels? I don't really agree but the danger for Theresa May
:02:52. > :03:01.is that she has allowed a vacuum to build up, we've had no clarity and
:03:02. > :03:04.specifics from Theresa May about the Brexit she wants. On the European
:03:05. > :03:07.side they have been gathering their troops if you like, the three main
:03:08. > :03:09.institutions, the commission, Parliament and council have
:03:10. > :03:12.appointed negotiation teams. This is familiar turf for brussels, the
:03:13. > :03:17.issues with trade and the complexes the EU law, they are getting ready.
:03:18. > :03:21.The message is coming from London, from Liam Fox and David Davies, that
:03:22. > :03:25.we are going to have a hard Brexit. May be Theresa May this weekend will
:03:26. > :03:30.give more clarity but at the moment there needs to be a message coming
:03:31. > :03:34.from senior figures in the government, they want to move as far
:03:35. > :03:40.away, a clean Brexit if you like, and sacrifice the economic
:03:41. > :03:44.connections of the single market, the customs union etc for control
:03:45. > :03:48.over immigration. Unless we see is busy pics from Theresa May this
:03:49. > :03:53.seems the way it is going from the perspective of London. If you look
:03:54. > :03:57.at the problem that was meant to be solved Brexit by David Cameron, the
:03:58. > :04:02.problem of management within the Conservative Party, that hasn't has
:04:03. > :04:06.it? Although people are looking at the Prime Minister thinking you have
:04:07. > :04:09.to take your time a bit and this is complicated, the divisions are still
:04:10. > :04:13.as apparent as they always were. Yes, and they aren't going to get
:04:14. > :04:17.resolved at the conference in Birmingham this week, they will
:04:18. > :04:21.continue on I believe and I don't agree that the signals are clear
:04:22. > :04:25.they want a hard Brexit. I think one of the ironies is I suspect what the
:04:26. > :04:29.Prime Minister wants is what David Cameron wanted when he started the
:04:30. > :04:34.renegotiations, they want control over immigration and stay in the
:04:35. > :04:38.single market and keep passports and not the jeopardise City of London
:04:39. > :04:42.status. In a way we are in a similar situation to 12 months ago, we could
:04:43. > :04:46.be in a similar situation 12 months from now. Now you hear muttering of
:04:47. > :04:50.we can't really start negotiations until after the German elections,
:04:51. > :04:55.which push everything back. It just pushes things back and back and
:04:56. > :04:59.back. I agree that I'm not entirely sure that they do know what they
:05:00. > :05:04.want. I think there's lots of pandering to people who voted Brexit
:05:05. > :05:08.to say we're working on it and we're working on it in the way you want us
:05:09. > :05:13.to and we are working on it is something... Pretty Patel, a Tory
:05:14. > :05:20.member on question Time the other day set a good slogan for the Brexit
:05:21. > :05:24.plans, we're working on it. It is a difficult situation for Theresa May
:05:25. > :05:27.because I do agree that it is something that had not been planned
:05:28. > :05:33.for, or had been arranged or considered for Brexit, and so she is
:05:34. > :05:37.inheriting a plan that needs to be done from scratch, but at the same
:05:38. > :05:40.time she needs to give not necessarily specifics, nobody is
:05:41. > :05:45.asking for an itemised list of what's going to happen, but to give
:05:46. > :05:50.some comfort that after, how long is it now? Three or four months. Three
:05:51. > :05:53.or four months, all these people that have been corralled, these
:05:54. > :05:57.Brexit ministers and lawyers that have been appointed, they have come
:05:58. > :06:01.up with something and we don't have an indication of that. The
:06:02. > :06:04.difference between the last government under Cameron and this
:06:05. > :06:08.one under Theresa May is stark, the fault with the last regime was
:06:09. > :06:11.having no preparation of the eventuality in a binary vote of the
:06:12. > :06:14.side they didn't support winning and that's one of the biggest criticisms
:06:15. > :06:21.you can level at the Conservative Party in recent times. They didn't
:06:22. > :06:23.have a contingency plan. Theresa May, the reason she is upsetting
:06:24. > :06:27.some journalists, not present company obviously, it may not be
:06:28. > :06:32.that having no plan is you not being told a running commentary about a
:06:33. > :06:35.plan and if you are in a negotiation it is probably unwise to give
:06:36. > :06:40.advance notice of any other point you want to take, or even the
:06:41. > :06:44.direction of travel you want to go. But it is unwise not to give them
:06:45. > :06:49.any indication, which makes them calculate the worse case scenario.
:06:50. > :06:52.Verstappen reality and the issue is Britain isn't going to get
:06:53. > :06:58.everything it wants that the stark reality. The European Union is much
:06:59. > :07:03.wrong. We are talking about 450 million people against six 2 million
:07:04. > :07:07., 27 countries against one country, Britain is a strong economic power
:07:08. > :07:11.but Europe has the stronger hand here. Yes there are the German
:07:12. > :07:15.exporters and French exporters but that is one tiny part of this.
:07:16. > :07:20.Donald Tusk, the head of the council said at Bratislava a couple of
:07:21. > :07:24.months ago, said I'm here to protect my 27 countries, Britain has voted
:07:25. > :07:28.to leave, that's it, they're gone, why would the EU move to an extent
:07:29. > :07:34.they are going to try to protect their interests, when you bring
:07:35. > :07:37.things in like passport in and bringing in issues like access to
:07:38. > :07:40.research money on the common agricultural policy, aviation,
:07:41. > :07:46.there's a myriad of issues that need to worked out. If Britain isn't
:07:47. > :07:51.ready then the EU will be in a stronger position and get a better
:07:52. > :07:57.deal. I've never heard a suggestion Article 50 isn't fit for purpose.
:07:58. > :08:02.Really? They never in visit it happening. What I'm asking is it
:08:03. > :08:08.going to work? I have read it quickly, you put it in motion, you
:08:09. > :08:13.can't stop, that's why everyone is afraid of it. Britain leaving the
:08:14. > :08:17.EU, that's the way it functions, the way it won't work is Britain having
:08:18. > :08:21.a meaningful trade relationship in the two years set aside. It is
:08:22. > :08:27.inadequate for the purpose it was stated. Article 50 is only a couple
:08:28. > :08:31.of sentences, it is tiny, it says with unanimous agreement you can
:08:32. > :08:39.extend that. It won't be within the 18 month period. Exactly. This is a
:08:40. > :08:44.small point, what is Liam Fox's job? He is the trade Secretary but he
:08:45. > :08:48.can't do any trade deals, can he? About the can with Australia and the
:08:49. > :08:55.US. He can seek international trade deals with those outside the EU. The
:08:56. > :08:59.European Union preserves a legal right to monitor negotiation but you
:09:00. > :09:02.can have bilateral agreements. The UK government, this might not help
:09:03. > :09:08.in the discussion we've just had with Sarah, the EU is likely to
:09:09. > :09:12.say... What are you going to do about it? Let's move on, we make no
:09:13. > :09:17.apology for returning to the subject of Syria this week not because we
:09:18. > :09:20.have any magical new solutions but because the getting this
:09:21. > :09:24.humanitarian catastrophe in a once thriving country seems wrong. If the
:09:25. > :09:28.Assad regime is part of the problem, must it be part of the solution? As
:09:29. > :09:35.Western policy to marginalise, ignore and not negotiate being wrong
:09:36. > :09:40.-- has. It has been and people need to acknowledge that. What we
:09:41. > :09:44.suffered from in Syria is an Iraqi war hangover. Unfortunately history
:09:45. > :09:52.will judge both of these decisions harshly in that in a fear and
:09:53. > :09:55.reluctance to look like people are intervening and the Western
:09:56. > :09:59.interventions in the region has been operatic in the past it has enabled
:10:00. > :10:03.Assad and has strengthened his hand and there's a triumvirate of
:10:04. > :10:11.absolutely reprehensible culprits between Hezbollah, Assad and Russia
:10:12. > :10:16.with the West standing, looking on, that has devastated and until very
:10:17. > :10:23.recently one of the most thriving, -- relieved vibrant countries in the
:10:24. > :10:27.Arab world. -- culturally vibrant. I have no problems with returning to
:10:28. > :10:31.Aleppo because I am concerned people are looking at Aleppo the way they
:10:32. > :10:35.look at starving children in East Africa, it is what it is, happens
:10:36. > :10:40.once in a while and we can't do anything about it. A man-made
:10:41. > :10:46.catastrophe? About this, people will sit and opine and say these are the
:10:47. > :10:51.political... We can do something about it. There is a way to
:10:52. > :10:56.highlight in political circles in the West and the absolute paralysis
:10:57. > :11:02.that has been the state of play when it comes to Putin and Assad. I
:11:03. > :11:08.wonder, just in real politic terms whether you've got a choice between
:11:09. > :11:12.a relative stability in some areas with Assad still in power or some of
:11:13. > :11:16.the groups somehow overthrowing Assad, which has been Western
:11:17. > :11:20.policy, and they end up fighting each other. In other words there's
:11:21. > :11:25.always been a flaw within Obama policy and its irreconcilable. We've
:11:26. > :11:29.been talking about this for four or five years and the US has never had
:11:30. > :11:36.a coherent, affective policy and the diplomacy has failed, the flyovers
:11:37. > :11:39.have failed, the limited involvement has failed and the obviously the
:11:40. > :11:43.agreement worked out between Secretary Kerry and Secretary Lavrov
:11:44. > :11:50.and it was a disaster ten or 14 days ago. I a way forward in the waning
:11:51. > :11:56.days of the Obama presidency -- I don't see. His ability to influence
:11:57. > :12:00.events has waned. It is significant to bring in the Russia element, it's
:12:01. > :12:04.a year since they got involved in the war and it has had quite an
:12:05. > :12:07.impact, it succeeded in shoring up the Assad regime which was losing
:12:08. > :12:13.ground at that stage. It's interesting the timing, related
:12:14. > :12:17.relations between Washington and Russia are so bad after the
:12:18. > :12:22.ceasefire that failed. There are questions about John Kerry's
:12:23. > :12:30.personal credibility, he put a lock into this and personally negotiated
:12:31. > :12:34.and now it is in ruins. We've got no... Even in Britain at the Labour
:12:35. > :12:39.Party Conference it barely got a mention, will we see Theresa May
:12:40. > :12:43.even raise Syria this weekend? It's not on the domestic political agenda
:12:44. > :12:48.in Britain and the US and in the meantime Russia is dictating terms a
:12:49. > :12:51.lot. You don't raise political issues you don't have the solution
:12:52. > :12:56.for I guess. That's got implications. This has been
:12:57. > :13:00.successful if you like for Moscow, with very little investment in terms
:13:01. > :13:05.of losses, although we're not entirely sure on that, and in terms
:13:06. > :13:09.of cost, it has succeeded in putting itself back at the centre of world
:13:10. > :13:13.diplomacy on this issue. If you take away a moral compass, Putin has
:13:14. > :13:18.played a blinder, great success with very little at risk to start with an
:13:19. > :13:24.little lost. But two points from me, the footage we see Aleppo, much of
:13:25. > :13:28.which is taken by drones, taking nature of reporting from danger
:13:29. > :13:32.zones fundamentally, it is almost a lunar landscape or a World War Two
:13:33. > :13:37.Dresden landscape and it is astonishing that a 250,000 people
:13:38. > :13:42.are living in that environment. You do wonder where. Moral impulse is
:13:43. > :13:47.absolute. But the second thing I was going to say is the spokesman for
:13:48. > :13:51.the Assad regime on BBC last week was saying we've never attacked our
:13:52. > :13:55.own citizens, we never do that, totalled the Lyell of obvious truth.
:13:56. > :13:59.The difference between that and the Sadam Hussein regime when their
:14:00. > :14:04.spokesman got out and live was the Hussein regime didn't get away with
:14:05. > :14:09.it and the Assad regime is. I want to make one point, I do think that
:14:10. > :14:15.there is huge moral pressure now piling up. I'm kind of more of a
:14:16. > :14:19.cynic and I don't think that usually results in anything, but the footage
:14:20. > :14:24.that is coming from Aleppo, the possibility now because Assad and
:14:25. > :14:27.the Russians are panicking, the possibility to send in ground
:14:28. > :14:32.troops, potentially 6000 ground troops into Aleppo in the near-term
:14:33. > :14:36.as the Obama presidency goes into its wane, that is going to be I
:14:37. > :14:40.think the dividing line between whether somebody actually says, you
:14:41. > :14:44.know what, it's going to be open combat in Aleppo on the ground, it's
:14:45. > :14:49.going to be something tantamount to cleansing.
:14:50. > :14:55.Is the West being hypocritical? The biggest manifestation in Europe has
:14:56. > :15:02.been the migration crashes, so we want don't want to see the refugees
:15:03. > :15:07.coming in, and we see the same problem in Aleppo. I was down as a
:15:08. > :15:11.reporter and the proximity to Aleppo, 40 miles over the border
:15:12. > :15:15.from Turkey and adjacent to Europe, adjacent to Turkey, and it's got
:15:16. > :15:19.huge ramifications in terms of the refugee crisis, that still hasn't
:15:20. > :15:22.gone away. And it will be interesting to see it that wave in
:15:23. > :15:27.the debate about whether there should be more intervention on the
:15:28. > :15:30.Aleppo issue. Let's move on. The Clinton, trumped debate engage the
:15:31. > :15:38.interest of millions of Americans around the world. He really is a
:15:39. > :15:43.misogynist who insults people around their race, and why is the selection
:15:44. > :15:47.even close? Do we miss the point about Donald Trump outside the
:15:48. > :15:51.United States? Do we just not get why tens of millions of people will
:15:52. > :15:55.vote for him? Yes, we do miss the point, and you in general don't
:15:56. > :16:00.understand you are starting with an electorate which has maybe 42%
:16:01. > :16:03.favouring one side and 42% the other. People are equally is that
:16:04. > :16:07.between the Republican point of view and the Democrat point of view so it
:16:08. > :16:12.starts fairly even. So this election is about six to 8% of the people in
:16:13. > :16:18.the middle, and Trump is taking a very unorthodox, radical,
:16:19. > :16:22.improvised... He is not listening to advisers, he is doing things his own
:16:23. > :16:26.way, and he is just sort of tossing the dice. It didn't work for him
:16:27. > :16:29.this week but it might work for him next week. I think in general Europe
:16:30. > :16:34.doesn't understand just how divided America is, and how election is all
:16:35. > :16:38.about this small group of swing voters that they are trying to
:16:39. > :16:41.appeal to. Europeans and European journalists are patronised Ronald
:16:42. > :16:46.Reagan and various others. But this isn't Ronald Reagan, is it? No, but
:16:47. > :16:50.the fact he is even further away from the political to consensus may
:16:51. > :16:54.be part of his appeal. Part of the answer to your question may be the
:16:55. > :16:57.waiters framed. If you are only going to list the supposed faults of
:16:58. > :17:01.one of the candidates you will emerge with a particular view of the
:17:02. > :17:04.debate. If we decide to list the sort of cartoon scenes of Hillary
:17:05. > :17:08.Clinton on the other side, standing by her man while covering up
:17:09. > :17:11.systematic abuse of women, the enormous e-mail cover-up and abuse
:17:12. > :17:15.of her position as Secretary of State, Benghazi and so forth, you
:17:16. > :17:19.might come to a mob balanced view which is that they are both terrible
:17:20. > :17:22.candidates. I think it is really interesting what Alex did that,
:17:23. > :17:26.because one of the reasons why Donald Trump is in a position he is
:17:27. > :17:30.today where everyone is thinking how has it happened is because of this
:17:31. > :17:35.false equivalence. It is the sort of desire to not come across as
:17:36. > :17:38.patronising or a liberal snob, and say they are both terrible. The New
:17:39. > :17:40.York Times did a deep dive investigation into Hillary's
:17:41. > :17:44.e-mails, completely unwarranted, because they wanted to look like
:17:45. > :17:47.they were kind of giving both candidates the same level of
:17:48. > :17:50.scrutiny. And this false equivalence, the interesting story
:17:51. > :17:54.is not the normalisation of Donald Trump, it is the demonisation of
:17:55. > :17:59.Hillary. Donald Trump is a creep, and Hillary is a sort of slightly...
:18:00. > :18:05.Not slightly, let's even concede that she is moderately corrupt or
:18:06. > :18:09.inept or problematic. If you compare that to all the other sitting
:18:10. > :18:12.presidents, that have had e-mail scandals, that have had corruption,
:18:13. > :18:16.bribery scandals, that have had trade deal scandals, it is not
:18:17. > :18:19.comparable. So I think this false equivalence is one of the reason
:18:20. > :18:23.that Donald Trump is where he is today. And sorry, before I conclude,
:18:24. > :18:26.to answer your question, does it matter that he does all the things?
:18:27. > :18:30.It doesn't because people are being tribal in they're voting for Trump
:18:31. > :18:38.and the most interesting thing is that they don't care about his lies.
:18:39. > :18:41.Because there is the sense that there is a compact between Donald
:18:42. > :18:46.Trump and his supporters, and that I am lying to them but I am not lying
:18:47. > :18:50.to you. But that is the basis. He has got to get more to win. He was
:18:51. > :18:54.very close a week ago to getting into a commanding position in the
:18:55. > :18:57.polls. He has to move beyond the people he has this compact with an
:18:58. > :19:02.attractive people and he is not doing it. I were to come back to
:19:03. > :19:05.what you said at me, I wasn't trying to draw what you have turned a false
:19:06. > :19:08.equivalence between these two candidates, I was seeking to
:19:09. > :19:11.correct, with respect, Gavin's one eyed introduction, with all the sins
:19:12. > :19:15.of Donald Trump, why is even close? If you my view he is a worse
:19:16. > :19:19.candidate than Hillary, she is part of the Democratic machine that would
:19:20. > :19:22.abuse office in the same way as her husband did. Donald Trump, on the
:19:23. > :19:27.other hand, just comes across as a bit of an idiot. Has there been in
:19:28. > :19:30.the 17 years of the show a larger understatement than that? I do think
:19:31. > :19:33.the next of weeks and could be entering difficult territory,
:19:34. > :19:38.because it has been a very difficult week for Donald Trump as the debate
:19:39. > :19:41.did not go his way, he had a scandal about Miss universe, the Washington
:19:42. > :19:45.Post has been doing a lot of digging about his charity, and we have seen
:19:46. > :19:48.in his speeches since Monday he has come back at the Clinton global
:19:49. > :19:51.initiative, at the Clinton foundation. Has made millions of
:19:52. > :19:55.dollars. I think this could be an issue, your seed Donald Trump coming
:19:56. > :19:57.back at this uncomfortable link between big business and politics
:19:58. > :20:02.that the Clintons have symbolised a lot of people. And the Clintons made
:20:03. > :20:09.over $100 million in fees on this, so there is an issue that which I
:20:10. > :20:13.think will overshadow that. But we may see... Interestingly, this was a
:20:14. > :20:17.huge issue for the Bernie Sanders supporters. Those Democrats who
:20:18. > :20:21.didn't support Hillary, this is their big team, anti- globalisation,
:20:22. > :20:25.anti- big business, so how are they going to respond to that? And maybe
:20:26. > :20:28.we will see a lot of them go to libertarians, the third candidate. I
:20:29. > :20:32.think the Clinton camp is worried about that. One of the things that
:20:33. > :20:36.is coming up, and he touched on it there, is the question of false
:20:37. > :20:41.equivalence. How is, in terms of reporting, this is unique, this
:20:42. > :20:45.election, is it not? That people who are... Journalists who try to be
:20:46. > :20:49.fair, talent and reasonably objective as they might possibly be
:20:50. > :20:54.are now in some cases saying that this candidate effectively is a
:20:55. > :21:00.liar, pointing to Donald Trump. This is a sea change in American
:21:01. > :21:03.journalism. Yes, and the New York Times executive editor have taken
:21:04. > :21:09.the position that they are going to brand Trump Alaia, which is quite
:21:10. > :21:15.unprecedented. The Washington Post gives him four Pinocchio, which is
:21:16. > :21:20.their way of saying the same thing. People are blaming the press as if
:21:21. > :21:23.it is our fault that he has come so far, and I personally don't buy
:21:24. > :21:27.that. I think when a candidate is nominated we report what he says and
:21:28. > :21:31.what she says, and we challenge it and investigate it and look into it
:21:32. > :21:35.and report what is right and what is wrong, and look into their past. But
:21:36. > :21:39.I don't think it is our job to say this person is unfit or that person
:21:40. > :21:43.is unfit. I mean, it is not our tradition. But you did have major,
:21:44. > :21:50.major newspapers that have always gone Republican endorsing... In
:21:51. > :21:55.Texas, for example. Bo Dallas and Houston paper broke hundreds of
:21:56. > :22:01.years of tradition to denounce Trump and endorse Clinton. I think it has
:22:02. > :22:05.zero effect. It is interesting you raise that point, it is a very good
:22:06. > :22:08.point and it has challenged the limitations of reporting in America
:22:09. > :22:13.and people have broken cover. It is not reporters' position or job to
:22:14. > :22:17.save the candidate is fit or unfit, but recently, actually, the pearl
:22:18. > :22:24.clutching has ceased and now people are saying the birth thing was a
:22:25. > :22:32.lie. That is when the New York thing was. The so-called birther thing was
:22:33. > :22:39.started by the Hillary Dominic Clinton camp. Still alive. You are
:22:40. > :22:43.all saying it is not the media to determine if people are unfit or not
:22:44. > :22:47.but you are doing a pretty good job. If you listen to what I'm saying, I
:22:48. > :22:52.am absolutely not saying he is unfit and I am saying he has a very strong
:22:53. > :22:56.appeal and a that the election to get close again. He took a radical
:22:57. > :22:59.approach to the debate and I don't think you would argue that it
:23:00. > :23:02.worked. He didn't listen to a single adviser, he did not prepare, he
:23:03. > :23:05.Dittert off-the-cuff, sometimes that works great, this time it really
:23:06. > :23:08.didn't. Sure, I was making a different point. One of the
:23:09. > :23:11.interesting things about Trump's candidature for history is how
:23:12. > :23:17.Republican he is. Anti- free trade, not social conservative. I don't
:23:18. > :23:21.find him an attractive candidate, he is a populist, protectionist, anti-
:23:22. > :23:27.free trade, pull up the drawbridge... That was even better
:23:28. > :23:31.than my list. I am able to think on the other hand that, no offence to
:23:32. > :23:35.anyone here but the sort of sneering that has been done to him helped his
:23:36. > :23:39.cause. Let me tell you, as someone who campaigned for Brexit, being
:23:40. > :23:44.sneered at his very helpful. The very famous phrase about Frank D
:23:45. > :23:47.Roosevelt, who was said to have a second intellect and a first class
:23:48. > :23:51.increment, temperament is part of the issue here. You may say that
:23:52. > :23:54.neither of them has a temperament which is particularly appealing but
:23:55. > :23:58.this will be someone who has got the guy with the nuclear football behind
:23:59. > :24:02.him, and temperament could be a very big issue. Is that the guy you want
:24:03. > :24:05.to have with their finger on the button? Sure, I think that is a
:24:06. > :24:09.point that applies to both of these candidate. This is a deeply
:24:10. > :24:12.election, and that is an false equivalent. I would agree with that
:24:13. > :24:18.in terms of foreign policy, let's step back from that. Trump's
:24:19. > :24:23.comments on Putin, this is a very delicate time for relations between
:24:24. > :24:29.Washington and Moscow, and Trump saying he admires Putin at this
:24:30. > :24:33.moment, I think that is very serious issue, and I think somebody needs to
:24:34. > :24:36.probe him on that, getting back to the media here. Like millions of
:24:37. > :24:41.American voters will want to think that America can be closer to Russia
:24:42. > :24:45.that it is now. They would like America to be closer to Russia? To
:24:46. > :24:49.have a better relationship with Russia than it does now, yes. This
:24:50. > :24:54.is why the debate was so disappointing. Trump's position on
:24:55. > :24:59.Nato is very radical, very interesting and I would love to hear
:25:00. > :25:02.an articular defence for it. He is talking about throwing out the
:25:03. > :25:06.defence plan which has held since 1945 but there was no debate about
:25:07. > :25:11.anything, it was about Miss universe and it was a really odd debate. I
:25:12. > :25:15.would like to hear a serious foreign policy justification. The point made
:25:16. > :25:19.earlier about the swing voters, if we put aside our views of either of
:25:20. > :25:23.the candidates, what they are both fighting for is the swing voters.
:25:24. > :25:27.And watch some doing is playing to his own gallery. And the difference
:25:28. > :25:31.in their positions Trump needs to make a case, a strong case, that he
:25:32. > :25:35.is not this erratic person, and if he doesn't I think people will
:25:36. > :25:41.default to Hillary as a safe pair of hands. Or the third candidates, this
:25:42. > :25:45.is a fear as well, that if you don't vote the Hillary this could have
:25:46. > :25:49.ramifications. That's it for Dateline London this week. You can
:25:50. > :25:54.comment on Twitter and with our guests. We will be back next week at
:25:55. > :26:00.the same time. Please make a date with Dateline London.