:00:25. > :00:29.This week: a sacking in Washington, a timely election leak in the UK,
:00:30. > :00:32.and Donald Trump's visits to the Middle East and the Vatican.
:00:33. > :00:34.Debating all of that are Stephanie Baker,
:00:35. > :00:36.from the international news agency Bloomberg News,
:00:37. > :00:40.Janet Daley, political columnist with Britain's Sunday Telegraph
:00:41. > :00:43.newspaper, Jonathan Sacredoti from i-24 News, an Israeli
:00:44. > :00:53.Mustapha Karkouti from the Dubai-based newspaper, Gulf News.
:00:54. > :00:55.Donald Trump sacked plenty of would-be business moguls
:00:56. > :00:57.on the reality TV series "The Apprentice", barking "you're
:00:58. > :01:02.James Comey received his dismissal as Director of the FBI in a note.
:01:03. > :01:04.Getting rid of TV contestants doesn't have many consequences;
:01:05. > :01:07.sacking the head of the country's key crime fighting agency when he's
:01:08. > :01:09.investigating those around you, well that's proving harder
:01:10. > :01:30.What was he thinking? He did not handle the swell. He is not good at
:01:31. > :01:35.firing people. The messaging was incredibly messy. He tried out,
:01:36. > :01:43.various Trump surrogates to argue that this was prompted by a memo
:01:44. > :01:47.from the Deputy Attorney General calling on his dismissal because of
:01:48. > :01:51.the handling of the Hillary Clinton e-mail investigation. No one was
:01:52. > :01:56.buying that because Trump had praised his handling of that
:01:57. > :02:04.repeatedly as had Jeff Sessions, the Attorney General. Then Trump
:02:05. > :02:09.contradicted his own staff, and that he had been planning on firing him
:02:10. > :02:14.anyway and he was thinking about the Russia investigation when he decided
:02:15. > :02:18.to do it and actually the trigger had been watching James Comey
:02:19. > :02:23.testify last Wednesday, where he said that the notion of his
:02:24. > :02:30.intervention in the election to tilted towards Trump made him out of
:02:31. > :02:37.the notches. That enraged Trump. The interesting and controversial thing
:02:38. > :02:41.is the involvement of Jeff Sessions. He excused himself from the Russia
:02:42. > :02:44.investigation because he was a key figure in the Trump campaign and his
:02:45. > :02:50.involvement in the firing of Comey has raised a lot of questions and
:02:51. > :02:55.criticism from Congress. He got flack for saying he had met the
:02:56. > :03:08.Russian ambassador but had not mentioned it. Exactly. Lastly, Trump
:03:09. > :03:14.dug his -- dug himself into a bigger codger Mercy with a veiled threat to
:03:15. > :03:19.James Comey that he might not leak because they might be tapes. That
:03:20. > :03:24.has set up a whole round of speculation about what kind of
:03:25. > :03:30.taping system he has, good the comparisons with Nixon get any more
:03:31. > :03:36.stark? You have top Democrats in Congress calling on him to release
:03:37. > :03:42.whatever tapes he may have. I think that this is getting very troubling
:03:43. > :03:54.and I think, his credibility is under question. He has appeared to
:03:55. > :03:58.calm down a little bit in Washington. It looked like the
:03:59. > :04:06.administration was getting into a rhythm of working. It is not just
:04:07. > :04:10.the inconsistencies and contradictions, inexperienced White
:04:11. > :04:14.House administrators do often screw up and contradict themselves, but it
:04:15. > :04:20.is the shamelessness of it, it is the preposterous arrogance of it. He
:04:21. > :04:24.contradicted his own earlier account of why he had sacked him and turned
:04:25. > :04:32.it on his head and he did not seem the slightest bit embarrassed. Word
:04:33. > :04:36.is this Rovira, narcissism, how can that possibly be credible in a
:04:37. > :04:41.President? I am old enough to remember Nixon and Watergate and
:04:42. > :04:44.there was at least a degree of shame and embarrassment and culpability
:04:45. > :04:51.and when those tapes were released, the Watergate tapes, and he was
:04:52. > :04:58.caught red handed having plotted the Watergate burglary and what was most
:04:59. > :05:05.shocking, to the American public was the language that he used. Everybody
:05:06. > :05:11.discovered that he spoke in the most obscene stream of four letter words
:05:12. > :05:16.to his aides, they talk like gangsters, now Trump talks like this
:05:17. > :05:19.in television interviews! There is something very peculiar that has
:05:20. > :05:25.happened to the American political consciousness, for this even to be
:05:26. > :05:29.not instantly impeachable. It gets to the whole issue of Nixon who went
:05:30. > :05:35.to great lengths to deny that there were any tapes and now we have Trump
:05:36. > :05:40.advertising that he has them. Perhaps making it up. I think what
:05:41. > :05:43.is interesting about this is that we are dealing with the President who
:05:44. > :05:48.plays by different rules, they are the rules of entertainment and
:05:49. > :05:52.television. He seems well versed in those in ways that other politicians
:05:53. > :05:55.are catching up then and while the media are on the whole condemning
:05:56. > :06:00.him for these sorts of behaviours and absurd things he is saying, it
:06:01. > :06:04.seems at odds of the way that the President of speaking. He is hiding
:06:05. > :06:08.the real issues. The issues that he does not want discussed, like the
:06:09. > :06:12.investigation into the alleged collusion with Russia is not what we
:06:13. > :06:27.have discussed before. I would also say that like him or not, we need to
:06:28. > :06:31.say there is very little concrete evidence that that has happened and
:06:32. > :06:33.President Obama was also caught in 2012 saying that he wanted a bit
:06:34. > :06:36.more time to get through his next election... These are not things
:06:37. > :06:38.that politicians have not done in the past. He is the master of
:06:39. > :06:40.distracting from them. The word collusion is a very strong word,
:06:41. > :06:43.which implies there was conscious conspiracy with a foreign power, and
:06:44. > :06:50.an friendly form her, that is tantamount to treason. The idea that
:06:51. > :06:55.you have to prove collusion makes the case really hard. You think the
:06:56. > :07:03.standard should be lower? Yes. I do not think collusion is the right
:07:04. > :07:11.word. I was in Washington, DC and I was talking to officials. The main
:07:12. > :07:17.worry is about democracy, what is happening, what is the impact, what
:07:18. > :07:25.with that leave of democracy itself? Their main worry, is that society
:07:26. > :07:30.itself, it cannot guarantee to stop that impact in a way. He is very
:07:31. > :07:38.dangerous. They are really scared and frightened by hand. This is
:07:39. > :07:41.really testing US institutions. I think he is democratically elected
:07:42. > :07:45.as President even if people around this table do not like him and he is
:07:46. > :07:52.following procedures, other people have been fired in the same role. He
:07:53. > :07:57.was accused of filling his expenses. He went for a process that has
:07:58. > :08:02.President and he is somebody, Comey is someone that the Democrats wanted
:08:03. > :08:08.to have fired. They have looked awkward because they have gone from
:08:09. > :08:11.say that this man was responsible through the election, one Democrat
:08:12. > :08:22.told me that James Comey is a bit of a Boy Scout. It is difficult for the
:08:23. > :08:27.Democrats to agree. They have said unfortunate things about him in the
:08:28. > :08:31.past. In a sense, you could read, their interpretation of this as
:08:32. > :08:34.having considerable integrity. Even though they have got a grudge
:08:35. > :08:37.against him and they have grounds for objecting to him, they do not
:08:38. > :08:42.like the way this has been done. That is a legitimate thing to say.
:08:43. > :08:48.The issue is the timing, why is he doing it now? If it was about
:08:49. > :08:52.Hillary Clinton, why was it not done the day after the inauguration?
:08:53. > :08:59.Comey was about as for more resources to pursue the Russian
:09:00. > :09:00.connection. Donald Trump is probably glad to be getting out of the
:09:01. > :09:02.country. After the week he's had,
:09:03. > :09:04.President Trump may be mightily He's heading to Saudi Arabia
:09:05. > :09:18.and then to Israel before This is something much bigger and
:09:19. > :09:21.has much bigger consequences. I wonder if people are viewing this as
:09:22. > :09:26.a serious attempt to move the process forward in terms of the
:09:27. > :09:32.Israeli and the Palestinians are whether it is just a bit of
:09:33. > :09:37.international diplomatic theatre. It is extremely serious. That is what I
:09:38. > :09:45.hear and also from the Americans themselves. At the same time, being
:09:46. > :09:53.in that shaky position, I don't know how much that will impact on his
:09:54. > :10:04.international activities and policy. He is very serious, he has been
:10:05. > :10:12.talking to the Palestinian President and his people are saying that he is
:10:13. > :10:21.very optimistic, apparently he did tell Abbas that he was serious about
:10:22. > :10:25.the question of pressing Binjamin Netanyahu to come forward and sort
:10:26. > :10:30.this out, because at the end of the day, there is an agreement, there is
:10:31. > :10:35.an agreement between the two sides on the agreement, but the Israelis
:10:36. > :10:40.are hesitating in moving there. Just on the question of the Israeli
:10:41. > :10:44.position, Binjamin Netanyahu has been the dominant player in Israeli
:10:45. > :10:47.politics for well over a decade but he is still only the head of a
:10:48. > :10:52.Coalition government partly because the electoral system in Israel, is
:10:53. > :10:58.he in a strong enough position to take some kind of initiative?
:10:59. > :11:01.Historically, it has been right wing Israeli ministers who have managed
:11:02. > :11:05.to make peace deals with Arab neighbours and I think there is
:11:06. > :11:08.plenty of optimism around and I think Donald Trump really puts
:11:09. > :11:13.forward a new window of opportunity for both sides. It seems that both
:11:14. > :11:16.leaders have visited him in DC and both have come out of that
:11:17. > :11:19.surprisingly saying that they got on very well with them, including Abbas
:11:20. > :11:37.who said that there seem to be some area for development and that
:11:38. > :11:39.is surprising because everyone assumes that Donald Trump would be
:11:40. > :11:42.firmly on the side of Israel. What Donald Trump has to do now is what
:11:43. > :11:45.we have been discussing before, turn this from being a show and being all
:11:46. > :11:48.about him, this is the man who prides himself on making deals, this
:11:49. > :11:50.is the ultimate deal and turn it into concrete action. He did the
:11:51. > :11:53.first step by making both sides like him, something that Barack Obama
:11:54. > :11:55.failed to do, he put a lot of pressure on Israel ask you for
:11:56. > :11:58.preconditions that the Palestinians had asked for, including onset of
:11:59. > :12:05.building. If anything, it in bold at the extremists on the Palestinian
:12:06. > :12:09.side. Trump has managed in 100 days to get both sides favourable towards
:12:10. > :12:18.him and perhaps to consider new negotiations. The issue has always
:12:19. > :12:23.been that talks had been hobbled by preconditions, either going to be
:12:24. > :12:27.preconditions, because we have been here before so many times?
:12:28. > :12:34.Preconditions are really used in order not to take action, it is a
:12:35. > :12:40.tactful thing and it is really ridiculous in a way, because the
:12:41. > :12:43.whole plan is quite clear, there was also about 20 years ago, both sides
:12:44. > :12:51.agreed and sat together and agreed on peace plans, there were other
:12:52. > :12:55.meetings following that. It is the right wing government in Israel
:12:56. > :13:01.which is really putting these obstacles, the settlement question
:13:02. > :13:04.is very serious. There is an argument... The Palestinian
:13:05. > :13:15.authority is paying the murders of people like the British student who
:13:16. > :13:20.was stabbed. Soldiers who engaged in warfare. People who stab Christian
:13:21. > :13:26.British students are not necessarily peacemakers. Those are not so little
:13:27. > :13:28.for the families who lost people in terrorist attacks. Not little for
:13:29. > :13:34.the Palestinians who lost people in military action. They are wrongly
:13:35. > :13:41.used to create obstacles in front of peace. If you remember the press
:13:42. > :13:46.conference that he gave, it was quite absurd in the sense that he
:13:47. > :13:48.was saying, you guys sorted out between yourself and what ever you
:13:49. > :13:55.agree on will be all right with me and I will sit here and do... Were
:13:56. > :13:58.ever. It just shows the most appalling ignorance of the
:13:59. > :14:05.difficulties and the complexities of the situation. I don't think he has
:14:06. > :14:12.a clue. He is not the point man, his son-in-law is. The reason that both
:14:13. > :14:15.sides but be feeling optimistic is because they think there is a vacuum
:14:16. > :14:19.in the White House and if they both played their cards cleverly enough
:14:20. > :14:26.they might be able to get... Isn't that what both sides really needed?
:14:27. > :14:30.Even though his method of saying it is absurd A, what he is actually
:14:31. > :14:34.saying is he will not impose things from outside, he wants to
:14:35. > :14:37.facilitate, he has a ridiculous way of saying things... What he said
:14:38. > :14:41.was, you figure out a deal that satisfies both of you, there is no
:14:42. > :14:45.deal that satisfies both of them, that is the whole point and someone
:14:46. > :14:50.has to arbitrate and if he is saying, I am not interested in
:14:51. > :14:55.arbitration... I think he is keen to arbitrate but he is saying he will
:14:56. > :14:58.not impose preconditions and vote for unilateral moves at the UN. I
:14:59. > :15:04.suspect that what we are dealing with is a President I work we do not
:15:05. > :15:11.understand how to read his service appearance. I am hoping. Maybe that
:15:12. > :15:14.is all there is! I was in Washington, the Americans are
:15:15. > :15:22.worried about the whole situation, because the entire region is in
:15:23. > :15:28.turmoil and it is flaring up. This might transpire to the Palestine and
:15:29. > :15:34.Israel situation. Imagine if that happened there, what is going to
:15:35. > :15:42.happen? He is going first to Saudi Arabia which is an interesting first
:15:43. > :15:46.white? The first trip of a US President is loaded with symbolism.
:15:47. > :15:50.Going to Saudi Arabia, he is expected to get a warm welcome,
:15:51. > :15:58.ironically, despite him pursuing this Muslim ban, Saudi Arabia
:15:59. > :16:06.escaped that ban. I think leaders in Saudi Arabia who are keen to reset
:16:07. > :16:10.relations, and were disheartened by the pursuit by Barack Obama of the
:16:11. > :16:14.Iran nuclear deal, we reported this week that actually the Saudi Arabia
:16:15. > :16:19.are prepared to invest in US infrastructure and that could be
:16:20. > :16:26.unveiled at the same time. You could sell it as a domestic thing.
:16:27. > :16:30.Exactly. Making America great again. The fact that he is warmly regarded
:16:31. > :16:36.in Saudi Arabia could change the balance of power. Iniesta goes here
:16:37. > :16:40.since. I do think largely speaking he is going on to the Vatican were
:16:41. > :16:47.ironically he might perceive the roughest reception. Old to be a fly
:16:48. > :16:51.on the wall! Pope Francis has criticised him, his immigration
:16:52. > :16:56.policies and then he goes on to the G-7 will be heard finance ministers
:16:57. > :17:00.expressing concern about the threat that his policies pose to
:17:01. > :17:05.multilateral trade and the possibility that his moves could
:17:06. > :17:15.harm global growth. In addition to the economic aspect, don't forget
:17:16. > :17:20.Iran is going to be the main... He is building a Coalition that can
:17:21. > :17:23.deal with Iran and Isis and for the first time those three are in
:17:24. > :17:28.relatively good terms with each other and with America, something
:17:29. > :17:30.which lie, not is gratuitous. It could be a moment that needs to be
:17:31. > :17:32.seized. It's less than a month now
:17:33. > :17:35.until Britain goes to the polls. The oppposition Labour Party
:17:36. > :17:37.had its manifesto leaked, whilst in a joint TV appearance,
:17:38. > :17:39.Prime Minister May and her husband lifted the - bin -
:17:40. > :17:41.lid on their marriage. Last time, the pundits
:17:42. > :17:44.predicted a hung parliament This time, the talk
:17:45. > :17:57.is of a landslide. Janet, you and I were sitting next
:17:58. > :18:01.to each other only two years ago, when you were proud to have been
:18:02. > :18:04.pretty much the only person who predicted that the Tories were going
:18:05. > :18:08.to win and that was not going to be a hung Parliament. Will you make a
:18:09. > :18:14.prediction as to? Absolutely. Everyone will make the same
:18:15. > :18:17.prediction, so I will not be unique. I have not met anyone who said they
:18:18. > :18:20.would vote for Ed Miliband and that is why I make that prediction and I
:18:21. > :18:25.have met here people who said they would vote for Jeremy Corbyn.
:18:26. > :18:30.Considering that it is a foregone conclusion, this election, it is
:18:31. > :18:35.surprisingly not boring. Partly because the Labour thing is such a
:18:36. > :18:39.Marx Brothers production, it has become so shambolic, so for pure
:18:40. > :18:42.entertainment value, it keeps you riveted. Everyone is also
:18:43. > :18:58.speculating about what happens after is, what happens to Labour
:18:59. > :19:01.and the Tories afterwards, what does Theresa May really believe in terms
:19:02. > :19:04.of political principles. If she actually a Tory or is she trying to
:19:05. > :19:07.occupy the centre-left left empty by Tony Blair. The big question, will
:19:08. > :19:10.Jeremy Corbyn stay on as leader? It looks now as if he is intending to
:19:11. > :19:12.and there is a lot of subterranean gossip about the leak of the
:19:13. > :19:16.manifesto, was that intended to undermine him or was it intended to
:19:17. > :19:19.rally the militant faithful to make sure he is allowed to stay on
:19:20. > :19:26.afterwards? What will happen to that space that used to be occupied by
:19:27. > :19:31.soft left opposition in this country? That is the most serious
:19:32. > :19:37.question. How are you describing the selection if you are touching it at
:19:38. > :19:42.all to your readers? It is very difficult, in a way, extremely
:19:43. > :19:53.difficult, because the way we see it happening, the election system here,
:19:54. > :19:57.based on constituency, in a way, is not presidential. Jeremy Corbyn may
:19:58. > :20:03.have a better chance if that was a presidential system, because of his
:20:04. > :20:08.populism policies and all of that, but we see it extremely difficult
:20:09. > :20:18.for Labour to increase their seats in Parliament. They may lose a lot
:20:19. > :20:26.more this time around. It is totally difficult to explain to our readers
:20:27. > :20:31.this situation in Britain. There is no leadership of quality on both
:20:32. > :20:34.sides, I must say, not only on Labour, the Conservative leadership
:20:35. > :20:40.is not that impressive. It is not high-quality. I think that is very
:20:41. > :20:45.unfair on Theresa May, she has played a blinder, she has managed to
:20:46. > :20:49.unite our party that has always been divided over Europe. Is that
:20:50. > :20:52.temporarily? Look how well she is doing, when plagued other leaders
:20:53. > :20:55.and then we look at Jeremy Corbyn who on the other hand have been
:20:56. > :20:59.trying desperately to appeal to voters at the far left and the
:21:00. > :21:03.middle ground, offering things like extra bank holidays and free
:21:04. > :21:13.tuition, it is a miracle he has not offered everyone a free puppy or a
:21:14. > :21:16.unicorn. Then he said he was not a pacifist, we knew that, he has had
:21:17. > :21:18.no problem with the IRA or organisations like how mass and
:21:19. > :21:20.Hezbollah who specialise in killing civilians. He would say that they
:21:21. > :21:25.were in situations they were forced into where they had no choice. He is
:21:26. > :21:29.certainly no pacifist. He is not saying now that he would necessarily
:21:30. > :21:36.accept those situations in current circumstances. He said he would
:21:37. > :21:39.invite Hezbollah for tea. When someone was not leader of the party,
:21:40. > :21:44.that is when we see their true colours. I'll be seen enough of
:21:45. > :21:47.Theresa May, what this leadership means? She's talks about strong and
:21:48. > :21:53.stable leadership but that is almost all we have got so far. Has she done
:21:54. > :21:58.very well for a Remainer? She is now coming out as Mrs Brexit, people are
:21:59. > :22:02.accusing her of wanting some sort of extreme Brexit, I would dispute this
:22:03. > :22:06.distinction between the two. It is such a false dichotomy and I think
:22:07. > :22:10.Theresa May is proving fairly consistent. She has been reliable
:22:11. > :22:28.and perhaps a little bit boring for her whole
:22:29. > :22:32.career, she is the first prime ministers who has not tried to play
:22:33. > :22:35.it cool and she is continuing with the vicars daughter act, I think it
:22:36. > :22:38.is not an act, that is the point. I think it is really heard. We have
:22:39. > :22:40.this manifesto lake and we might have expected more hostility to it
:22:41. > :22:42.than we actually got, has something changed in the political mood, when
:22:43. > :22:44.renationalise the railways and restricting energy competition is
:22:45. > :22:47.something that even the Prime Minister wants to do. I think most
:22:48. > :22:50.people wrote off that leak of the manifesto as of no consequence
:22:51. > :22:54.because he has no chance of winning. In a sense, the policies do not
:22:55. > :22:58.matter. That is part of the reason why I find this to be one of the
:22:59. > :23:02.most boring elections I have witnessed in this country. At the
:23:03. > :23:06.same time, one of the most important, I think, in decades,
:23:07. > :23:11.because of the impact on the country long term. With the terms of Brexit
:23:12. > :23:15.being negotiated. She has called the election just as Britain is
:23:16. > :23:19.teetering on the brink of an economic slowdown, we do not know
:23:20. > :23:25.how severe it could be, why the Eurozone is just taking off. In that
:23:26. > :23:28.sense that this is the shrewd politics, get it out of the way
:23:29. > :23:34.before things get messy. Absolutely and it is shrewd of her to have
:23:35. > :23:38.pushed ahead with it now. I do wonder... The reason why it is
:23:39. > :23:42.boring if it was just confirmed the status quo and it is a question of
:23:43. > :23:46.how big a majority she will get. I wonder if she will get as big a
:23:47. > :23:50.majority as people are expected because the expectations are that it
:23:51. > :23:56.is a slam dunk for the Tories are why even bother voting and there is
:23:57. > :24:01.a certain degree of weariness with elections that we have had 2015
:24:02. > :24:06.general election, 2016 referendum and that the turnout could be very
:24:07. > :24:09.difficult to predict. I would be inclined to agree under other
:24:10. > :24:15.circumstances but the referendum politicise the country in a peculiar
:24:16. > :24:19.sort of way. People are politically hyperactive and they are not bored
:24:20. > :24:22.with this, actually. They might be bored with this particular election
:24:23. > :24:26.debate but they are not bored with the idea of who might lead the
:24:27. > :24:29.Brexit negotiations. That is a matter that many people regard as a
:24:30. > :24:32.matter of life and death and the idea that there could be any remote
:24:33. > :24:39.chance that they could be let into the Brexit negotiations by Jeremy
:24:40. > :24:41.Corbyn, I think that will galvanise. This is an extremely exciting
:24:42. > :24:44.political moment for British people, for the first time in at least one
:24:45. > :24:47.generation they had been given a direct say in the future of the
:24:48. > :24:51.country, the constitutional direction it will take and they know
:24:52. > :24:54.that they will need a leader who's going to carry them through that. It
:24:55. > :25:00.is incredibly risky and that is why many people who did not like the EU
:25:01. > :25:06.voted remain. On that argument, they have that lead already, she was
:25:07. > :25:17.there and they could have on. She said she was planning that.
:25:18. > :25:23.I am worried a little bit, we should not ignore the younger generation. I
:25:24. > :25:30.have three children and they all think differently. And they are
:25:31. > :25:36.pro-Jeremy Corbyn. They actually go out and vote? They will, no doubt, I
:25:37. > :25:42.will myself. These are three kids, they represent, I think, a good part
:25:43. > :25:48.of the society itself. That is an interesting change in the way
:25:49. > :25:51.voters, the breakdown of the traditional alliances. Instead of
:25:52. > :25:55.having class as the defining characteristic of who votes for
:25:56. > :26:01.which party, it is now generations. I was at Cambridge the other week
:26:02. > :26:05.and I will not say which college and I was talking to a considerable
:26:06. > :26:09.number of students and almost to a man they were saying they voted to
:26:10. > :26:14.support Jeremy Corbyn in the leadership and they were ruing the
:26:15. > :26:21.day and they regretted it. We will all know the outcome in just under
:26:22. > :26:23.one month. Thank you all very much for being with us.
:26:24. > :26:25.That's it for Dateline London for this week -
:26:26. > :26:27.we're back next week at the same time.
:26:28. > :26:30.You can of course comment on the programme on Twitter @bbcshaunley.
:26:31. > :27:05.Hello there. It is not plain sailing weather wise. They have low pressure
:27:06. > :27:11.across the north-west of the UK and that is giving quite a bit of cloud
:27:12. > :27:12.train but for many, there is sunshine on offer. That