:00:22. > :00:24.Hello and welcome to Dateline London.
:00:25. > :00:30.This week we discuss the still fragile nature
:00:31. > :00:33.of Britain's new government, and we try to assess
:00:34. > :00:37.where we are with the campaign against the jihadist group Isis.
:00:38. > :00:44.With me this week; Michael Goldfarb, host of the podcast FRDH,
:00:45. > :00:50.First Rough Draft of History; Steve Richards, the political
:00:51. > :00:55.commentator and broadcaster, Suzanne Lynch of the Irish Times,
:00:56. > :01:12.and the writer about Arab affairs, Abdel Bari Atwan.
:01:13. > :01:19.Welcome to all of you. Good to have you with us again today.
:01:20. > :01:21.The British Government has survived its first tests
:01:22. > :01:23.in the House of Commons - winning the vote
:01:24. > :01:27.on the Queen's speech - but compromises are everywhere.
:01:28. > :01:30.Brexit talks are ongoing, and we have word today from a former
:01:31. > :01:32.insider that the Prime Minister's red lines are making negotiations
:01:33. > :01:35.very difficult; and Northern Ireland is still waiting to return to power
:01:36. > :01:38.sharing, there's been yet another extension to the deadline
:01:39. > :01:54.Steve, how do you assess where we are this way? We have many vivid
:01:55. > :01:58.examples of this government's fragility, it's unavoidable
:01:59. > :02:02.fragility. When we got the concession about people in Northern
:02:03. > :02:08.Ireland being able to now come over here, to the rest of the UK to have
:02:09. > :02:11.abortions costing quite a money, that was because otherwise the
:02:12. > :02:17.government would have been defeated. This is going to happen on a regular
:02:18. > :02:21.basis. It did when we last had in effect a minority government between
:02:22. > :02:24.74-79, they were defeated all the time and if they were undefeated
:02:25. > :02:29.they were making manoeuvres all the time. Apart from anything else, it's
:02:30. > :02:35.exhausting for the Prime Minister and the government. If you add on
:02:36. > :02:38.top of that Brexit, and the beginnings of a sort of opening
:02:39. > :02:47.within the government, about what has really been going on, now they
:02:48. > :02:51.are in the cabinet position themselves very differently, this
:02:52. > :02:55.all feels very fragile. The point is they weren't public therefore, it
:02:56. > :03:00.was a very tight ship. Theresa May has lost her two key advisers. When
:03:01. > :03:06.we hear today that apparently David Davis, the man in charge of Brexit,
:03:07. > :03:09.is struggling with those red lines, the tough lines Theresa May wants to
:03:10. > :03:14.keep two, does that resonate with the people you talk to? Yes, and
:03:15. > :03:19.this is the most interesting of all the developments I think, an two
:03:20. > :03:25.fronts. Before she called that silly election, they were all in the
:03:26. > :03:28.Cabinet I think as scared of her as the cabinets of Margaret Thatcher
:03:29. > :03:33.were scared of her at her peak in the mid to late 1980s. They didn't
:03:34. > :03:40.even speak critically behind the scenes. Now she is so weakened, we
:03:41. > :03:46.are getting... Clearly David Davis knew this would happen. David Davis,
:03:47. > :03:50.senior media adviser saying he was unhappy, and clearly not consulted,
:03:51. > :03:55.about, for example, in her Tory Party Conference speech last October
:03:56. > :04:00.with Britain was going to pull out of the European Court. This is
:04:01. > :04:05.apparently something David Davis has found very, very difficult, to begin
:04:06. > :04:11.a negotiation with all these red lines kind of defining Britain's
:04:12. > :04:14.position, to a point of extreme rigidity. That's interesting in
:04:15. > :04:18.itself, but the fact that we know about it is also interesting.
:04:19. > :04:21.Because Cabinet ministers feel free now to indicate where they are
:04:22. > :04:27.concerned about her, in a way they hadn't been before. How do the rest
:04:28. > :04:35.of you see it, and indeed talk about it? On the issue of the DUP, it's
:04:36. > :04:39.extraordinary what has happened here. Arlene Foster, the head of the
:04:40. > :04:42.DUP has been described as the second most powerful people in British
:04:43. > :04:45.politics, her party is propping up the British government. A few months
:04:46. > :04:50.ago she was in serious trouble. There were assembly elections in
:04:51. > :04:54.Northern Ireland, the DUP did very, very badly and a resurgence of Sinn
:04:55. > :04:59.Fein confidence. There were talks about her having to resign over the
:05:00. > :05:03.renewable heating policy. It is amazing how things change. And the
:05:04. > :05:07.fragility was there in Northern Ireland. We have these talks that
:05:08. > :05:10.are separate, about the internal power-sharing agreement in Northern
:05:11. > :05:14.Ireland. They are ongoing, they have been delayed and delayed again into
:05:15. > :05:18.next week. We have been here before. There may be a deal but I think Sinn
:05:19. > :05:23.Fein, who are newly confident because of their own electoral
:05:24. > :05:26.successes, are going to be very closely watching the DUP. They are
:05:27. > :05:31.not comfortable with the idea, even though they will receive a lot of
:05:32. > :05:36.this 1 billion, not very comfortable with the DUP being so close to a
:05:37. > :05:41.Conservative government. Steve was talking about Margaret Thatcher
:05:42. > :05:46.before. In the 80s they said there is no alternative, now you have
:05:47. > :05:49.incredibly weak Theresa May and it is still Tina, there is no
:05:50. > :05:53.alternative. Isn't that what is keeping her in office in the first
:05:54. > :05:57.place? Yes. If there was a formidable figure waiting in the
:05:58. > :06:02.wings, if they're worth the equivalent, as there was in 1990
:06:03. > :06:05.when Margaret Thatcher finally fell and Michael Heseltine, John Major
:06:06. > :06:11.and Douglas Hurd... I don't think she would be here now. The fact is
:06:12. > :06:15.there isn't. Those who want to be leader aren't sure they would win at
:06:16. > :06:18.this point, so they are not clamouring for a leadership contest
:06:19. > :06:23.they might lose. That keeps her in place. This is the worst thing which
:06:24. > :06:28.could happen to this country, in this critical time you need not
:06:29. > :06:36.fragile government, you need a strong government, otherwise we will
:06:37. > :06:41.be black mailed from outside and inside, because Brexit, because of
:06:42. > :06:45.terrorism, because of the economy, because of the changing on
:06:46. > :06:49.atmosphere all over the world, political. Theresa May cannot
:06:50. > :06:56.actually guide this country to a deal, a good deal, or even a bad
:06:57. > :07:01.deal, vis-a-vis Brexit and that negotiation with the European Union.
:07:02. > :07:05.Also, if suddenly it is free abortion for the Irish girls to come
:07:06. > :07:09.to this country and the second, what kind of blackmail will happen? So
:07:10. > :07:15.you need a very strong government. I believe they should find an
:07:16. > :07:19.alternative. The Conservative Party should find an alternative as soon
:07:20. > :07:22.as possible, and actually before September, otherwise the country
:07:23. > :07:27.will collapse. Before party conference? Yes, terrorism, three
:07:28. > :07:35.attacks in less than three months. It is very dangerous. OK, the
:07:36. > :07:38.Conservatives say we managed to maintain security, we kept this
:07:39. > :07:43.country safe. Everybody wanted to make use of the experience of
:07:44. > :07:48.Britain and terrorism, European, Middle Eastern... And she was Home
:07:49. > :07:53.Secretary for years. Exactly. We have to be very precise here. This
:07:54. > :07:59.country needs a strong government, not vulnerable, not fragile, not
:08:00. > :08:04.weak. That is the name of the game. Just on that, you're talking about
:08:05. > :08:06.the lack of opponents at the moment. Some people, particularly those in
:08:07. > :08:09.the city, the likes of Philip Hammond, he would be seen as a
:08:10. > :08:14.possible alternative. And Boris Johnson as well but you are saying
:08:15. > :08:18.nobody is moving at the moment, there's no sense of that. We do have
:08:19. > :08:21.a situation now where as you are saying, we have a very interesting
:08:22. > :08:27.perspective where we now have different versions of what people
:08:28. > :08:30.want Brexit within the Cabinet. This is highly dangerous in negotiation,
:08:31. > :08:34.when your opposite number can see it being played out. Philip Hammond
:08:35. > :08:37.went to Germany this week and said something very different to his
:08:38. > :08:43.colleagues back home, and David Davis. The irony is that the moment
:08:44. > :08:47.the Brexit route for Britain is the Theresa May blueprint. She has set
:08:48. > :08:51.out a strong, hard Brexit, out of the single market and customs union
:08:52. > :08:55.and no jurisdiction under the ECG. -- ECJ. People are getting
:08:56. > :09:00.uncomfortable with that in government. Will there be a point
:09:01. > :09:03.where that changes? Negotiations are now on. Whether these tie into
:09:04. > :09:09.things domestically before the autumn may dictate if we see someone
:09:10. > :09:16.moving against or not. You see, the problem with that theory... A strong
:09:17. > :09:20.government would be a good thing to have at the moment but a change of
:09:21. > :09:25.leader does not change the broader situation. That Prime Minister would
:09:26. > :09:30.still be at the head of a minority government, dependent on the DUP, in
:09:31. > :09:34.exactly the same way. Whoever he or she happened to be wouldn't dare
:09:35. > :09:38.risk calling another election unless there are about 50 points ahead in
:09:39. > :09:42.the polls, given that they just lost one or nearly lost one when they
:09:43. > :09:47.began it 25 points ahead in some polls. So the prospect of this House
:09:48. > :09:51.of Commons with a minority government continuing for some time
:09:52. > :09:56.is quite strong, I think. So even if they change the Prime Minister...
:09:57. > :10:01.It's a mute point because we are in the situation we are in. I would say
:10:02. > :10:07.the whole idea of Brexit, even if she had got her majority of 50, as
:10:08. > :10:11.she more or less expected to get... Because the whole process, it's two
:10:12. > :10:15.things. Its government, it would be nice to have at least a government
:10:16. > :10:21.that was in a minority government and beholden to a party in Northern
:10:22. > :10:25.Ireland, because playing the Orange card is a sidetrack, for any
:10:26. > :10:35.government. But, you know, Brexit is... Brexit! There will be a whole
:10:36. > :10:42.university course... Brexit is Brexit. It was always going to be a
:10:43. > :10:46.government destroyer, because the reality of negotiating this
:10:47. > :10:50.separation... Steve are no better than us because he lives in
:10:51. > :10:54.Westminster, but I thought in addition to the 20 point lead, which
:10:55. > :10:58.was a temptation to go to the country, she wanted to roll over the
:10:59. > :11:02.mandate. They understood they couldn't get the deal done before
:11:03. > :11:06.the next election in 2020, so if they kicked that can down the road,
:11:07. > :11:10.which is classic European Union thinking by the way, take it a
:11:11. > :11:14.little further... Another 18 months of 24 months and we can come up with
:11:15. > :11:18.a solution or a fudge. I think that's where they would have been at
:11:19. > :11:22.in any case. I agree with that. That's one of the many twists in all
:11:23. > :11:29.of this, that they are running out of time. This is meant to be done by
:11:30. > :11:34.March 2019. To keep within the two year time limit, which one of the
:11:35. > :11:37.architects of it John Bruton, me they deliberately set at two years
:11:38. > :11:44.to make it impossible for anyone to leave. We've already several months
:11:45. > :11:47.and and nothing has happened. I'm alarmed, you say yes, the government
:11:48. > :11:54.will continue. For how long is it going to continue? It could be
:11:55. > :11:59.years. There will be illness, there will be death, there will be
:12:00. > :12:03.by-elections... Suppose ten people decided to rebel against the
:12:04. > :12:08.government, what would happen? I cannot see this government lasting,
:12:09. > :12:13.actually. Labour had a rebellion this week. We haven't even mentioned
:12:14. > :12:17.the opposition, which is part of the dynamic of governance in this
:12:18. > :12:22.country. Labour are not in power. The Conservatives are in power.
:12:23. > :12:28.Theresa May is heading a government, the Cabinet. A divided Cabinet. Is
:12:29. > :12:31.this the best formula to control? Where does that take us question
:12:32. > :12:36.does it take us to another general election? Try and find a strong
:12:37. > :12:42.government? I think she gambled and she failed, and she should step down
:12:43. > :12:49.and leave the stage for other people who can form a strong government and
:12:50. > :12:56.go for the Brexit negotiation, look at the services in this country,
:12:57. > :13:00.challenge Labour, impose or say we are Britain, we are a major player
:13:01. > :13:04.in the international community. To have a government very vulnerable
:13:05. > :13:07.like this, and you have a Prime Minister who gambled and failed and
:13:08. > :13:12.still at the head of the government, I believe this is absolutely
:13:13. > :13:15.unacceptable. Even Labour have its own contradictions about Brexit.
:13:16. > :13:19.This is the irony, as Jeremy Corbyn becomes more and more popular among
:13:20. > :13:23.young people, when they find out what he actually thinks what he
:13:24. > :13:28.thinks about Brexit, which is very anti-EU. That will have problems for
:13:29. > :13:32.Labour. I think Brexit is the thing, the main issue facing Britain at the
:13:33. > :13:37.moment for the next few years. Neither party has a coherent message
:13:38. > :13:42.on it. Both are confused, both are conflicted. This is what is going to
:13:43. > :13:45.probably of the next government and when the government will be formed.
:13:46. > :13:49.Steve, a quick thought from you. You have touched on it to some degree.
:13:50. > :13:52.Your sense, what people say to you about the internal workings in
:13:53. > :13:58.Downing Street now? You say there is no one obvious to take over. What is
:13:59. > :14:07.your sense of Theresa May, how much do we know? It feels much weaker,
:14:08. > :14:12.not just politically, that's obvious, but in terms of its
:14:13. > :14:18.resources and sense of power. Number ten is physically a weaker entity
:14:19. > :14:22.than the Treasury, which is this mighty department down the road. So
:14:23. > :14:27.exercises power through authority, and the authority of those advisers
:14:28. > :14:31.working with the Prime Minister fostered she had to get rid of her
:14:32. > :14:35.two advisers, who terrified ministers and all the rest of it.
:14:36. > :14:39.They are gone. The head of policy, was there before, is gone, she has
:14:40. > :14:44.just replaced him with someone else. There are new people moving in. Her
:14:45. > :14:49.authority's greatly diminished, and those in the Cabinet who work as I
:14:50. > :14:56.said earlier, in awe and fear of her, she was so popular, they are
:14:57. > :14:59.now beginning to feel assertive and muscular, and that's why we know
:15:00. > :15:03.what David Davis thinks this morning. That's why we know what
:15:04. > :15:08.Philip Hammond thinks. So it is a completely changed dynamic in this
:15:09. > :15:12.government. You are right to suggest she won't recover that authority.
:15:13. > :15:16.Once you've lost a kind of mandate in the way she did in that early
:15:17. > :15:20.election, you don't recover from that. But I don't think there will
:15:21. > :15:23.be an early election, because the Conservatives can't afford to hold
:15:24. > :15:28.one because they might lose it. I might suggest people watching are
:15:29. > :15:33.breathing a sigh of relief! It depends on your view, obviously.
:15:34. > :15:35.Let's turn our attention is outwards and talk a little bit about the
:15:36. > :15:36.Middle East. Coalition forces have almost
:15:37. > :15:38.recaptured the city of Mosul in Iraq, and in Syria the defacto
:15:39. > :15:43.Isis capital Raqqa is surrounded, but still the jihadists fight
:15:44. > :15:47.on and the civilian toll is huge - some half a million
:15:48. > :15:54.people have been killed, and millions more left
:15:55. > :16:05.homeless and displaced. Your assessment of Isis, its
:16:06. > :16:10.strength or otherwise, who is in charge, your take on where we are?
:16:11. > :16:14.We have been talking about Mosul falling for a long time and still
:16:15. > :16:17.hasn't happened. We must talk more about the middle east on this
:16:18. > :16:25.programme and other programmes. Middle east is coming to us. Not
:16:26. > :16:29.only are we going to the Middle East, terrorism is coming to us.
:16:30. > :16:32.Look at the other side of the Mediterranean was that there is
:16:33. > :16:38.Libya, and absolutely failed state and a source of trouble. Look at
:16:39. > :16:42.Egypt, it is bankrupt. There are 90-95,000,000 people there. Look at
:16:43. > :16:46.Syria, about 500,000 were killed. Look at Iraq, look at other parts,
:16:47. > :16:52.even the Gulf region, Saudi Arabia and Qatada are struggling and
:16:53. > :16:55.fighting. Middle East is very important, we have failed state, not
:16:56. > :17:02.just Isis an Islamic State that a lot of problems. The question now,
:17:03. > :17:05.OK, I can send some sort of euphoria. Isis is going to be
:17:06. > :17:10.defeated, they are about to lose Mosul, they are about to lose Raqqa.
:17:11. > :17:13.But there are two very important questions. What will happen to Isis
:17:14. > :17:19.after that? The second question, what will happen to the coalition
:17:20. > :17:23.which is fighting Isis? Is it going to be intact? Is it going to be
:17:24. > :17:26.strong as it used to be? Because they were united simply because of
:17:27. > :17:31.Isis. Answering the first question, I believe there are two choices for
:17:32. > :17:37.Isis. The first one, to resolve itself, which is impossible. The
:17:38. > :17:43.second one, to go underground and turned a plan B, terrorism, and they
:17:44. > :17:47.are shrinking in territories. The third option is to go to other
:17:48. > :17:55.branches, like Pakistan and Afghanistan, like Olivia and Syria,
:17:56. > :17:59.like Libya... We don't know. Yemen. If they go to these branches and
:18:00. > :18:07.they have the infrastructure there, instead of having Isis in at Iraq
:18:08. > :18:11.and Syria, you will have Isis 19 branches all over the world. Going
:18:12. > :18:16.underground, they will be more dangerous. Why? Because they will
:18:17. > :18:22.be, they will get rid of the burden of running a state, a caliphate.
:18:23. > :18:27.Now, they used to have 9 million under their rule. If they get rid of
:18:28. > :18:30.that, you know, if this country struggling with health care,
:18:31. > :18:36.struggling with education, struggling with services, so imagine
:18:37. > :18:43.a country, Isis example he lacks the experience. Those men are the men of
:18:44. > :18:47.Saddam Hussein, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is just a front. Those people can
:18:48. > :18:51.disappear underground and can be very, very dangerous. So we
:18:52. > :18:59.shouldn't actually celebrate the death of Isis. We should prepare
:19:00. > :19:01.ourselves for the next age. It is interesting, because if you think
:19:02. > :19:12.about the history of all of this... Isis descended from Zarqawi's
:19:13. > :19:15.networks, which descended from a pledge of allegiance to Osama bin
:19:16. > :19:21.Laden. We can go back decades on this thing has metastasised through
:19:22. > :19:26.the Muslim world. I agree entirely. I think that menu of choices you
:19:27. > :19:30.listed being open to Isis, I've think they will take all of them. I
:19:31. > :19:34.think as they are squeezed out of Mosul... You have to understand,
:19:35. > :19:38.they are surrounded in the old city of Mosul. You cannot really get a
:19:39. > :19:46.car down the street in many parts of these quarters. They still have tens
:19:47. > :19:52.of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of civilians under their
:19:53. > :19:55.control in this warren. The Allied forces are trying to be as careful
:19:56. > :20:00.as they can be, but there is still huge civilian casualties. They will
:20:01. > :20:05.go away. The bigger question, and this is one that goes back three
:20:06. > :20:11.years to when Isis first arrived in Iraq, was you could find any day of
:20:12. > :20:13.the week in the newspaper talking about security services being
:20:14. > :20:19.concerned about kids going to Syria, kids going to Iraq to make jihad and
:20:20. > :20:23.then coming. We know some of the attacks in France and Brussels were
:20:24. > :20:28.perpetrated by people who had been in Syria and had come home. I wonder
:20:29. > :20:32.to what degree the security services in Britain know of people who have
:20:33. > :20:38.travelled to Syria and Iraq, have worked or gone online and read Isis'
:20:39. > :20:43.main form of communication and are thinking of stuff... This is a real
:20:44. > :20:46.problem... It applies in lots of European countries. They survive on
:20:47. > :20:52.publicity. Every time someone comes out and either kills 50 people in a
:20:53. > :20:59.gay nightclub in Orlando and says, I pledge allegiance to Isis. Or runs
:21:00. > :21:03.15 people over on London Bridge on this, I pledge allegiance, this is a
:21:04. > :21:06.great success for them and allows them to sustain themselves in all
:21:07. > :21:12.these other countries where they are running away too. One positive, if
:21:13. > :21:15.you like, as the shrink in territory happens, their finances are being
:21:16. > :21:18.affected here. They're taking control of these oilfields and
:21:19. > :21:21.having the money to finance this. That would be interesting, how that
:21:22. > :21:25.plays out. As you pointed out, it could be that they take a different
:21:26. > :21:31.strategy or underground attacks. That is a huge positive, that it is
:21:32. > :21:33.going to affect them and perhaps their recruitment. A lot of the
:21:34. > :21:37.people that went over where getting paid a lot of money. How are they
:21:38. > :21:44.funding it and can they continue to do it? They lost 80% of their
:21:45. > :21:48.income, because now they don't control the oil fields, the gas
:21:49. > :21:54.fields and if they do control it, they can't export it, they cannot
:21:55. > :21:59.sell it. These are important things. But when you convert them in Mosul
:22:00. > :22:06.and Raqqa it means they don't need this amount of money. They used to
:22:07. > :22:08.receive about $3 million, equal to export of oil and gas. Now they
:22:09. > :22:12.don't need, they will go underground. I would like to remind
:22:13. > :22:19.you that the people, the cost of the 11th of September, $250,000 only. It
:22:20. > :22:26.didn't cost that much. So they don't need a lot of money, as they used
:22:27. > :22:30.it. The problem, the problem... We should look at the incubators who
:22:31. > :22:35.actually give their oxygen to those people in Iraq and Syria and all
:22:36. > :22:42.parts of the Middle East. If we want to reduce the danger to the minimum
:22:43. > :22:47.we should deprive them from incubators. We should deprive them
:22:48. > :22:51.from the grassroots, from frustrated young people. Unemployment is
:22:52. > :22:56.extremely huge, instability is the name of the game in the Middle East.
:22:57. > :23:00.You have a new generation completely frustrated. No jobs, no future, no
:23:01. > :23:03.hope at all, so we have to look at it if we want to solve this problem.
:23:04. > :23:10.Haven't people been warning about that for some years? Exactly. Your
:23:11. > :23:13.argument is Western governments have needed this question up we know
:23:14. > :23:17.about that and have said it several times but nobody paid attention to
:23:18. > :23:22.it. We have to look at the roots of the problem and try to find a
:23:23. > :23:29.solution which actually can treat it from the roots, not actually trying,
:23:30. > :23:36.OK, let us go and look at security measures. Security measures... Saudi
:23:37. > :23:41.Arabia and the GCC isolate Qatada and say it's all their fault. This
:23:42. > :23:50.is ridiculous. It is not the fault of Qatar. There are 7000 Saudis
:23:51. > :23:57.fighting in the ranks of Isis. From Chechnya, from Pakistan, from
:23:58. > :24:07.Tunisia. From Tunisia about 5000 are fighting under the Isis flag. Why?
:24:08. > :24:10.You were right in your introductory comments to say we have to give a
:24:11. > :24:15.lot more thought to this, because the Middle East is coming to us and
:24:16. > :24:19.you gave the example, absolutely rightly of course, the refugee
:24:20. > :24:24.crisis, if anything will deepen. When I wrote the book the rise of
:24:25. > :24:28.the outsiders, it was amazing to see the degree to which that was
:24:29. > :24:31.defining the politics of many European countries, from the
:24:32. > :24:35.vulnerability of Angela Merkel for a time, to the way social Democrats in
:24:36. > :24:41.northern Europe... All responding to that process. You mention the fact
:24:42. > :24:44.that the Isis leadership are basically Saddam Hussein's old
:24:45. > :24:48.Republican guard. So that Western intervention has triggered all of
:24:49. > :24:55.this. What should the West do, in terms of dealing with this? I can't
:24:56. > :24:59.see... What's not happening is American leadership, that will be
:25:00. > :25:03.interesting. How the Trump administration, is talking about
:25:04. > :25:06.more troops in Afghanistan, maybe we will hear more about that in the
:25:07. > :25:14.next few months. They are quite happy to keep it at arms distance,
:25:15. > :25:22.they are there behind... Steve, you are absolutely right. We should
:25:23. > :25:27.change all our plans, our way of thinking when we look at the Middle
:25:28. > :25:36.East. Isis defeated, OK, now American president... Who does the
:25:37. > :25:39.war against Iran? Let us finish from this terrorism and then move to
:25:40. > :25:45.that. This is the problem. We have to stop wars in the Middle East, but
:25:46. > :25:49.by all means and concentrate on people, how to make their life much
:25:50. > :25:53.better, in order to keep them away from us. LAUGHTER
:25:54. > :25:56.This is a problem. We have to leave it there, even though as you say,
:25:57. > :26:00.you're quite right, we must be talking about it more. We will
:26:01. > :26:02.return to I'm sure. Thank you to all of you.
:26:03. > :26:04.That's all we have time for this week.
:26:05. > :26:33.Please do join me again next week, same time, same place but for now
:26:34. > :26:39.We started off quite cloudy in actual fact, as you can see