0:00:30 > 0:00:33Hello and a very warm welcome to Dateline London, I'm Jane Hill.
0:00:33 > 0:00:36This week we look at the situation in Iran after protests in many
0:00:36 > 0:00:38cities and we ask is President Trump damaged
0:00:38 > 0:00:43by his former Chief Strategist's allegations of treason?
0:00:43 > 0:00:45My guests this week:
0:00:45 > 0:00:50Bronwen Maddox from the think tank The Institute for Government,
0:00:50 > 0:00:56previously with The Times and the Economist.
0:00:56 > 0:01:06The Irish writer and broadcaster Brian O'Connell.
0:01:08 > 0:01:10The American writer and broadcaster Michael Goldfarb who also brings
0:01:10 > 0:01:13us the podcast FRDH.
0:01:13 > 0:01:15And Iranian journalist and editor of Kayhan-London Nazenin Ansari.
0:01:15 > 0:01:16Welcome to you all.
0:01:16 > 0:01:19The United States has been rebuked by some other members
0:01:19 > 0:01:21of the United Nations' Security Council for calling
0:01:21 > 0:01:22an emergency meeting to discuss the recent anti-government
0:01:23 > 0:01:24protests in Iran.
0:01:24 > 0:01:26China and Russia say the unrest isn't a threat
0:01:26 > 0:01:28to international security, and Russia accused the US
0:01:28 > 0:01:29of abusing its position.
0:01:29 > 0:01:30Demonstrations and counter demonstrations filled
0:01:30 > 0:01:32the streets for many days, in numerous cities.
0:01:32 > 0:01:42More than 20 people have died and hundreds have been arrested,
0:01:47 > 0:01:53From your assessment, to what extent is this something we have seen
0:01:53 > 0:01:58before, in Iran, what you shall take?This protest, first of all, is
0:01:58 > 0:02:04based in the grassroots, more widespread because there are certain
0:02:04 > 0:02:08strands of grievances and suffering that is all coalescing into one
0:02:08 > 0:02:15trap. The feeling that the government and the system cannot
0:02:15 > 0:02:19answer the aspirations and the hopes and the needs of the people. We have
0:02:19 > 0:02:23seen this protest, this was nothing new, as far as the protest itself
0:02:23 > 0:02:35was concerned, we have seen this since 2013. Rohane was elected with
0:02:35 > 0:02:37the intention of improving the standing in the world of Iran and
0:02:37 > 0:02:42the economic situation, but then they continued, structural problems
0:02:42 > 0:02:46remain, the banking system, a lot of banks went bankrupt, the pension
0:02:46 > 0:02:51system broke, in the meantime, teachers were not paid, labourers
0:02:51 > 0:02:57were not paid, factory workers were fired from their jobs, because
0:02:57 > 0:03:02factories have closed. From an economic and financial perspective,
0:03:02 > 0:03:09yes, it is hurting the ordinary account holder and pensioner. 55% of
0:03:09 > 0:03:15the population of Iran is working age, above 25.Very young
0:03:15 > 0:03:19population. Yes, very young population, what has happened is the
0:03:19 > 0:03:25government has not been able to really not make things better.That
0:03:25 > 0:03:30is why they took off as they did, specifically, two events happened,
0:03:30 > 0:03:37prior to this, in the past month. Number one, the budget was published
0:03:37 > 0:03:42by Mr Rouhani and this time for the sake of accountability, and
0:03:42 > 0:03:46transparency, he publicised the amount of money allocated to
0:03:46 > 0:03:55religious institutions from the budget. These institutions and
0:03:55 > 0:04:00foundations already receive ridges arms from the people, already they
0:04:00 > 0:04:04do not pay taxes, yet their allocation increased in this budget.
0:04:04 > 0:04:09At a time when standards of living was falling.Yes, and then at the
0:04:09 > 0:04:15same time, increase the budget of I/O GEC, because I urge you see is
0:04:15 > 0:04:26becoming... -- IOGC. These forces are becoming more involved in Syria,
0:04:26 > 0:04:32with Hezbollah, paying them daily, billions going out per month, from
0:04:32 > 0:04:39uranium budget, to finance the war in Syria, in Lebanon, Hezbollah's
0:04:39 > 0:04:46allocation. Another event that happened in the past month, two as
0:04:46 > 0:04:53quites in Iran, over 700 in total quakes in Iran in the past month.
0:04:53 > 0:05:04That is a lot. Iran sits on a fault line, the nuclear policy has not
0:05:04 > 0:05:07been questioned in the street but they are asking, my God, why hasn't
0:05:07 > 0:05:15there been any safety reports issued, why can't we know where
0:05:15 > 0:05:20these nuclear reactors are, all of these have been given hand to hand
0:05:20 > 0:05:27for each other, which has international implications.Is it
0:05:27 > 0:05:31that the implications that should be discussed at the UN Security
0:05:31 > 0:05:37Council?This is a mistake by the US, things that they have that it be
0:05:37 > 0:05:41brought to the UN, principally the nuclear programme, which is a matter
0:05:41 > 0:05:45of international security, and the Security Council reluctant to look
0:05:45 > 0:05:49at it but they have taken steps over the years, and that is absolutely
0:05:49 > 0:05:54proper use of it. The US would be much better advised to sit and let
0:05:54 > 0:06:00this play out because it risks antagonising people who might...
0:06:00 > 0:06:03People who do not want to be associated with the US but want to
0:06:03 > 0:06:09see these changes. What you are looking at, as has been powerfully
0:06:09 > 0:06:14described, people rising up and saying, just on economic grounds,
0:06:14 > 0:06:17standards of living, what it is like to live in Iran, we are fed up with
0:06:17 > 0:06:21the way the regime is handling this. All kinds of things that the US does
0:06:21 > 0:06:26have an interest in, money going out to Hezbollah, and so on, you have
0:06:26 > 0:06:31people arguing from the most powerful positions possible, they
0:06:31 > 0:06:37resent the money going out of the country, people questioning it. The
0:06:37 > 0:06:41US should sit back and let this gather steam, which it probably.
0:06:41 > 0:06:46What we will talk about that.What is interesting, the US, just
0:06:46 > 0:06:50briefly, I know we will talk about it later, the US has no idea. This
0:06:50 > 0:06:55is before the Trump administration, the US has had very bad
0:06:55 > 0:07:01understandings, going back to 1979, when the revolution first happened
0:07:01 > 0:07:05and American diplomats were taken hostage. Of what the internal
0:07:05 > 0:07:10political dynamics are in Iran. This is not the first time this has
0:07:10 > 0:07:18happened, and almost every ten years. Nazaneen will tell me, 1999,
0:07:18 > 0:07:23major student uprising, at Tehran University, that were violently
0:07:23 > 0:07:27suppressed by some of the fathers of the people who were in the snout, in
0:07:27 > 0:07:35the militia then. And then 2009, after the election was nullified and
0:07:35 > 0:07:40a more liberal man had been elected who is still under house arrest, and
0:07:40 > 0:07:45what I see is a pattern, every time the regime realises it has two
0:07:45 > 0:07:50liberal lies a bit, the problems with liberalising a bit, in Iran,
0:07:50 > 0:07:55any authoritarian state, you get people's hopes up and then you
0:07:55 > 0:07:59cannot deliver. Some of what we are seeing now is what was going on in
0:07:59 > 0:08:041999 and 2009, people thought, we have signed the JC POA, the Iran
0:08:04 > 0:08:09nuclear deal, so we will get some benefit now. Because assets overseas
0:08:09 > 0:08:16are unfrozen. -- JCPOA. Easier trade to carry on... And it is not coming
0:08:16 > 0:08:19through, and after two years they are fed up and they come into the
0:08:19 > 0:08:25street. And, Bronwyn is right, America should not be involved
0:08:25 > 0:08:28because when America... All these American administrations have
0:08:28 > 0:08:35forgotten what they ever knew, if they ever knew it, Iran is a --
0:08:35 > 0:08:38Iranians are profoundly patriotic, not nationalistic, but patriotically
0:08:38 > 0:08:41they want to sort out their own problems, they do not want
0:08:41 > 0:08:47intervention, the less said from the outside, the better.Do you see it
0:08:47 > 0:08:53as an internal problem, a lot of it economic but more besides?Looking
0:08:53 > 0:09:00at it from afar, it does seem that it is not like the 2009 incidents
0:09:00 > 0:09:05that centred around what was perceived as an unfair election
0:09:05 > 0:09:10process, and it is far more widespread and economically base.
0:09:10 > 0:09:14And the US cannot win no matter what it does, back in 2009, I seem to
0:09:14 > 0:09:22remember, Barack Obama try to be nuanced in what he said, he was
0:09:22 > 0:09:26criticised for not saying enough when it happened, and then to match
0:09:26 > 0:09:32a week or two later, the crackdown came. They cannot win. One thing,
0:09:32 > 0:09:39probably, that the United States could do, is, and I think this would
0:09:39 > 0:09:42be very useful, if Donald Trump decided to do it, although I won't
0:09:42 > 0:09:49be holding my breath, would be to lift the ban on travel from Iran,
0:09:49 > 0:09:55his band that he initiated over several Muslim majority countries,
0:09:55 > 0:09:59that would help, it would back up what he says in his tweets, talking
0:09:59 > 0:10:02about freedom loving people and helping people get their own
0:10:02 > 0:10:07freedom. I don't think it is going to happen but either way, it is not
0:10:07 > 0:10:10going to get on the Security Council agenda and the US cannot win on this
0:10:10 > 0:10:13one.
0:10:14 > 0:10:20There is a few differences between 1999, 2009 and now, 1999 it was only
0:10:20 > 0:10:23students and it was freedom of expression, you can actually chart,
0:10:23 > 0:10:31you know, a rise of the movement itself, from 1999 to now. In 2009,
0:10:31 > 0:10:37it was a single issue, and it was within the government, this time, it
0:10:37 > 0:10:42is not so anymore, it is very widespread. But, one thing that we
0:10:42 > 0:10:50understand, that they are asking, the activists, everyone, they are
0:10:50 > 0:10:55asking for open lines of communication. Because the first
0:10:55 > 0:10:59thing that the regime did was close down social media, Telegram,
0:10:59 > 0:11:05Snapchat... Controlling the Internet... Because that is how they
0:11:05 > 0:11:10communicate. That is one thing they did. The next thing, they started
0:11:10 > 0:11:15beating them up, and they started saying they were cracking down, then
0:11:15 > 0:11:19they started their own demonstrations. Bringing their own
0:11:19 > 0:11:22people out. Like entering into a football stadium with one team
0:11:22 > 0:11:27playing. At the moment, what the United States can do, and has
0:11:27 > 0:11:32expressed that it will do is open these lines of communication,
0:11:32 > 0:11:38provide access to Internet.And the demonstrations we have seen thus
0:11:38 > 0:11:44far, despite the number of arrests, is your best guess that this will
0:11:44 > 0:11:50have any impact at all on the country's approach to Syria? You
0:11:50 > 0:11:54mentioned Hezbollah, does it change anything?It will not pull Iran back
0:11:54 > 0:11:59from involvement in those conflicts, where it is very invested, not just
0:11:59 > 0:12:03in the scraps of the moment but in trying to build zone of influence
0:12:03 > 0:12:09right across the region, what has been called a Shia crescent. This is
0:12:09 > 0:12:14a dangerous game for the US to play because it risks inflaming the sunny
0:12:14 > 0:12:19sheer Saudi versus Iran conflict that has been called a new Cold War,
0:12:19 > 0:12:29it is not very cold at all. -- Sunni-Shia. I think it cannot help
0:12:29 > 0:12:36but begin to have some effect on the regime.It will not change, the
0:12:36 > 0:12:40resolve of the Islamic Republic is to defeat United States, to defeat
0:12:40 > 0:12:47Israel. They do not even want to acknowledge that Israel has a right
0:12:47 > 0:12:53to exist. Will it change from these red lines? Obviously not. Do the
0:12:53 > 0:12:58people realise it, that this is the way it is going to be. It is not for
0:12:58 > 0:13:01the international commute -- is it not also for the international
0:13:01 > 0:13:05community to acknowledge that this will be the same, do not expect any
0:13:05 > 0:13:08change from the Islamic Republic, specifically not in the
0:13:08 > 0:13:12international sphere. That is why it is an international issue.
0:13:12 > 0:13:15Interesting, we will see where it goes, whether there is further
0:13:15 > 0:13:26protests. Let's talk specifically about the United States as well.
0:13:26 > 0:13:28There's been a swirl of claim and counter-claim around
0:13:28 > 0:13:31the White House this week, with a new book by the US journalist
0:13:31 > 0:13:33Michael Wolff suggesting numerous staffers around President Trump
0:13:33 > 0:13:36believe he never wanted the top job, and isn't up to it.
0:13:36 > 0:13:42His former chief strategist Steve Bannon is reported as telling
0:13:42 > 0:13:44Wolff that meetings between Trump's son and Russian
0:13:44 > 0:13:47diplomats was treason.
0:13:47 > 0:13:51Donald Trump did try to get this book banned, he tried to get the
0:13:51 > 0:14:01publication delayed... Does that tell us anything? Storm in a teacup?
0:14:01 > 0:14:04You expect these books six weeks after the end of the administration,
0:14:04 > 0:14:08however it ends, whether it is the impeachment... He serves the full
0:14:08 > 0:14:12eight years, doesn't matter, this is the tell all we have all been
0:14:12 > 0:14:16waiting for... Except we did not have the weight! Much of the book,
0:14:16 > 0:14:20from the extract I have read, has been reported elsewhere, it is just
0:14:20 > 0:14:23that names have been put to anonymous sources, and it is
0:14:23 > 0:14:28organised in a titillating and very amusing way. I think what the book
0:14:28 > 0:14:34does show is that the war for Trump's here is never-ending, one of
0:14:34 > 0:14:37these bosses whose decision is the last person who spoke with him.
0:14:37 > 0:14:46Whatever he said, that is my decision. -- Trump's ear. His
0:14:46 > 0:14:48children, Steve Bannon, the Barbican party trying to get easier,
0:14:48 > 0:14:54initially Steve Bannon had his ear and then he lost it. -- the
0:14:54 > 0:14:59Republican party tried to get his ear. Steve Bannon has allowed this
0:14:59 > 0:15:02to go forward, to say that the son of the president, Donald Trump Jr.,
0:15:02 > 0:15:08is gone to be cracked like an egg on national television by Robert
0:15:08 > 0:15:11Mueller, the special prosecutor looking into the matter... That is
0:15:11 > 0:15:16burning your bridges with a flame-thrower! But what is
0:15:16 > 0:15:22interesting to me is the way the Republicans have dealt with this so
0:15:22 > 0:15:28far. Their initial response was to demand the Justice Department look
0:15:28 > 0:15:33into the Clinton foundation. They are backing their man. One of the
0:15:33 > 0:15:35interesting quote, it comes from Mitch McConnell, you can correct me
0:15:35 > 0:15:40if I am wrong, Donald Trump will sign anything I put in front of him.
0:15:40 > 0:15:44That is crucial, they have the most important thing they wanted, and its
0:15:44 > 0:15:50ordinary tax reform Bill, which cuts corporate taxes which will not
0:15:50 > 0:15:53necessarily mean higher wages for people, it will mean bigger
0:15:53 > 0:15:57dividends for shareholders, cutting taxes on the most wealthy in
0:15:57 > 0:16:01American society with tiny amounts coming to the kind of people who
0:16:01 > 0:16:05backed Donald Trump all the way. The Republicans think, we have one here,
0:16:05 > 0:16:10we have pulled him into our camp, Steve Bannon thought he would pull
0:16:10 > 0:16:13him into the nationalist camp... I will get in trouble for this, the
0:16:13 > 0:16:16white supremacist camp, blood and soil nationalism, the new way
0:16:16 > 0:16:21forward for America, making America great again... I think the
0:16:21 > 0:16:25Republicans feel they have won him over and they have a sense of
0:16:25 > 0:16:28control but the other thing the book tells us is that this guy really
0:16:28 > 0:16:34cannot be controlled because he has no impulse control himself. And I
0:16:34 > 0:16:39think that is probably the most important thing of the book, it does
0:16:39 > 0:16:42reveal how this guy's mind, such as it is(!)
0:16:42 > 0:16:44reveal how this guy's mind, such as it is(!), works, we should all be
0:16:44 > 0:16:50paying attention to that.In this era of fake news, he says he coined
0:16:50 > 0:16:56the phrase, Michael Wolff himself is a colourful character. I was
0:16:56 > 0:17:03interviewing a trump supporter and he said, you have to second source
0:17:03 > 0:17:05most of these things, at the BBC, these sources do not have two
0:17:05 > 0:17:08sources, these quotes, and so you cannot rely on it. What is the
0:17:08 > 0:17:12average reader meant to take away from this, can they trusted?I think
0:17:12 > 0:17:15they can trust the overall picture, because it stands together as a
0:17:15 > 0:17:20picture, a narrative, of how the White House is working, and as
0:17:20 > 0:17:25Michael says, a portrait of this extraordinary president. Whether you
0:17:25 > 0:17:29can trust any individual seed, is a question. Real questions about
0:17:29 > 0:17:33Michael Wolff's technique generally, which is to write it as if he were
0:17:33 > 0:17:38there even when he was not, so to take things he has done from
0:17:38 > 0:17:43interviewing people, second or third hand, writing it as if he was there.
0:17:43 > 0:17:47That has been a question right the way through. First base, he has had
0:17:47 > 0:17:51some of the key people, people like Steve Bannon, standing up and not
0:17:51 > 0:17:57withdrawing them. The only significant kind of protest we have
0:17:57 > 0:18:01had is Tony Blair saying, I did not say that about the British spying on
0:18:01 > 0:18:07Trump. No one else has rushed out to say I'm disowning that quote. We
0:18:07 > 0:18:10have not had that quote. The picture hangs together. What hangs there is
0:18:10 > 0:18:16a portrait of Donald Trump, as Michael is saying, a man so paranoid
0:18:16 > 0:18:20he will eat only McDonald's because he doesn't want to be poisoned(!)
0:18:20 > 0:18:24very odd mistrust between him and his family members, distance between
0:18:24 > 0:18:28him and his wife, advises both clamouring to be close to him, to
0:18:28 > 0:18:32impress their views on his mind and being contemptuous of him. That
0:18:32 > 0:18:37hangs there but there is also stings in there which have some life, one,
0:18:37 > 0:18:40the allegations of money-laundering against members of the trump
0:18:40 > 0:18:46coterie. That has legs. The other one, allegations about his mental
0:18:46 > 0:18:49health, questions about whether he is suffering from dementia, the
0:18:49 > 0:18:53repetitions he goes in for. And this instability of decision-making,
0:18:53 > 0:18:59those have some legs.To his core base, again, they will say, this is
0:18:59 > 0:19:04the establishment out to attack somebody they do not like.
0:19:04 > 0:19:08Apparently this book is selling very well in his base as well but it is
0:19:08 > 0:19:15not going to change their minds. It confirms, as you have said, more or
0:19:15 > 0:19:22less what we already know, that the White House is dysfunctional... That
0:19:22 > 0:19:30all the comments about Trump's mental health have been said by,
0:19:30 > 0:19:36whether on or off the record am a by Rex Tillerson, by Rupert Murdoch, by
0:19:36 > 0:19:44HR McMaster... A couple of others as well. These people have all said
0:19:44 > 0:19:48this already, we know this. It is confirmation of something that
0:19:48 > 0:19:53should be quite worrying, yes, but I don't think there is anything new in
0:19:53 > 0:19:59it but it will sell a lot of books. When you come to talk about
0:19:59 > 0:20:03Amendment 25 and the removal of a president or you are talking about
0:20:03 > 0:20:06impeachment, you are into a completely different thing, it takes
0:20:06 > 0:20:11a long time, it is primarily a political process, involving a vote
0:20:11 > 0:20:19of Congress. We are not there at the moment. But it is interesting to
0:20:19 > 0:20:23have the confirmation of something that we have been discussing on this
0:20:23 > 0:20:28programme for quite a long time. Does it have any long-term impact?
0:20:28 > 0:20:33He has got things through that he promised, tax cuts mentioned, that
0:20:33 > 0:20:37was a promise, Paris climate accord, supporters will say, he is
0:20:37 > 0:20:43delivering on what he promised on the campaign trail.The tax bill you
0:20:43 > 0:20:45referred to, that counts as achieving something, despite having
0:20:45 > 0:20:50a White House that the president cannot focus on details, at least
0:20:50 > 0:20:57this bill was passed, biggest tax success for an administration. You
0:20:57 > 0:21:05have had the fightback against Isis in Syria and Iraq, the US has
0:21:05 > 0:21:10increased influence in Iraq, Iraq right now, with Iran, it is not with
0:21:10 > 0:21:15them at all points. So, there are positives that have happened, but
0:21:15 > 0:21:20the potential for other positives to happen I think has decreased, in the
0:21:20 > 0:21:27sense that, let's take Iran, again, if Donald Trump had a better stature
0:21:27 > 0:21:31among the international community, among the electorate, whatever he
0:21:31 > 0:21:34would say would be basically, at this time, when he asks for support,
0:21:34 > 0:21:41people would come, Barack Obama, take Trump out and put Barack Obama
0:21:41 > 0:21:44there are, with his positive approach, if Barack Obama had
0:21:44 > 0:21:50announced support for this policy of supporting the protest is, everybody
0:21:50 > 0:21:58would except it.Instead,...We have this family dynamic going on, in the
0:21:58 > 0:22:02Middle East, it works, and all colleague of mine told me, they will
0:22:02 > 0:22:07love Trump in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf because they have been telling
0:22:07 > 0:22:12American presidents for years, have your children around you. A
0:22:12 > 0:22:16dangerous situation, Jared Kushner, he inherited a position in his
0:22:16 > 0:22:21father's real estate business, he married Donald Trump's daughter, and
0:22:21 > 0:22:27he goes off to react, and he spends days with Mohammad Bin Salman, the
0:22:27 > 0:22:33Crown prince, and out of it comes this new axis against Iran, so when
0:22:33 > 0:22:38Donald Trump says, when Nikki Haley, UN Ambassador, says, we think we
0:22:38 > 0:22:42should have the UN Security Council meeting, it is all part of this new
0:22:42 > 0:22:45axis of pressure on the regime, except they do not have anything to
0:22:45 > 0:22:49back it up with. The reigning machine is stronger. That is a
0:22:49 > 0:22:54danger to the way the world works. Russia angina have vested interests
0:22:54 > 0:22:58in maintaining that regime.If anything, when you say Iran is
0:22:58 > 0:23:03stronger at the moment, it is not, in the sense that financially,
0:23:03 > 0:23:09because it is at the stage it is at now, it cannot maintain its... It's
0:23:09 > 0:23:19power...Economically, maybe not, but militarily...They have been
0:23:19 > 0:23:22sending Afghan militia, look at the amount of money that has been spent,
0:23:22 > 0:23:30it is upwards of 10 billion. Now, this is not a point of strength for
0:23:30 > 0:23:35Iran, and they know it as well, that is why there is dissatisfaction...
0:23:35 > 0:23:39Do you think this pressure brought by trump through his son-in-law and
0:23:39 > 0:23:44through the Saudis, is that strong foreign policy?I'm not saying that
0:23:44 > 0:23:51for Saudi, no, I'm talking about Iran, do different things.It is a
0:23:51 > 0:23:53shallow -based policy, the significance of this book is whether
0:23:53 > 0:23:57it tilts the mood... I take the points that have been made, that the
0:23:57 > 0:24:01base is sticking with him, but the Republicans now think they have what
0:24:01 > 0:24:06they want out of him, which is the big tax deal, and do they now have
0:24:06 > 0:24:10reason to distance themselves from him? Midterms are coming later this
0:24:10 > 0:24:15year, which Congress is going to watch very closely, as to what that
0:24:15 > 0:24:19says about whether Donald Trump's base is sticking with him. We still
0:24:19 > 0:24:22have the big crisis of North Korea hanging there, question about
0:24:22 > 0:24:28whether Donald Trump is flirting on Twitter, talking about the nuclear
0:24:28 > 0:24:33button, there is no constitutional check on Donald Trump pressing that
0:24:33 > 0:24:36button.He could still get up tomorrow and tweet whatever he
0:24:36 > 0:24:47wants. The markets are on a role... This book may give the generals and
0:24:47 > 0:24:51others licensed to pull back a bit, and possibly not carry out the
0:24:51 > 0:25:02orders of the president.The economy is doing well.The economy does well
0:25:02 > 0:25:07for some people and does not do well for others, there was not as many
0:25:07 > 0:25:12jobs created as forecast. I'm not sure about that. The bigger
0:25:12 > 0:25:17question, Donald Trump is Donald Trump, how he got there is... People
0:25:17 > 0:25:20who watch this programme should really focus on that, the Republican
0:25:20 > 0:25:26Party is no longer a political party as we come to think of them in
0:25:26 > 0:25:30democratic societies, it is a faction. When it wins, it governs as
0:25:30 > 0:25:34if there is no opposition, when in opposition, it ruins everything
0:25:34 > 0:25:38possible so that it gets re-elected. It does not acknowledge there is a
0:25:38 > 0:25:43separate thing. I think... We are all right, it is a transactional
0:25:43 > 0:25:48racing chip, they got the main thing they wanted, the tax cuts. If they
0:25:48 > 0:25:52see other benefits in supporting trump, then they will. Come June,
0:25:52 > 0:25:58when they look at the public opinion polling on individual house races,
0:25:58 > 0:26:05in 2018, they may reconsider their judgments, and basically, all senior
0:26:05 > 0:26:08politicians, they do not like to be the Millie eight it and they have
0:26:08 > 0:26:12long memories, all of them, and Donald Trump has humiliated Paul
0:26:12 > 0:26:16Ryan, and from time to time, Mitch McConnell, they swallow their pride,
0:26:16 > 0:26:20got their tax bill, there will come a time, I am certain, when they want
0:26:20 > 0:26:25to extract their price for that. Thank you very much for drawing that
0:26:25 > 0:26:28to a close, thank you, thank you very much indeed for being with us.
0:26:28 > 0:26:34Plenty more to discuss next week, same time, same place, thank you for
0:26:34 > 0:26:38watching Dateline London.