0:00:22 > 0:00:30Hello and a warm welcome to Dateline London.
0:00:30 > 0:00:31The conversation has already begun.
0:00:31 > 0:00:32I'm Jane Hill.
0:00:32 > 0:00:34This week we ask - was anything achieved at
0:00:34 > 0:00:38the World Economic Forum in Davos?
0:00:38 > 0:00:40What do the British Chancellor's comments there tell us about Brexit?
0:00:40 > 0:00:43And the situation on the Syria-Turkey border -
0:00:43 > 0:00:47what is the US going to do about its muddle in the Middle East?
0:00:47 > 0:00:54My guests this week -
0:00:54 > 0:00:56Eunice Goes, the Portuguese writer and journalist.
0:00:56 > 0:00:58Henry Chu, Europe bureau chief of Variety.
0:00:58 > 0:01:00the British political commentator and author, Steve Richards.
0:01:00 > 0:01:02And the French-Algerian journalist, Nabila Ramdani.
0:01:02 > 0:01:06Welcome to you all.
0:01:06 > 0:01:09We start in the Swiss resort of Davos, where Donald Trump
0:01:09 > 0:01:11was the first US president to attend the World Economic
0:01:11 > 0:01:14Forum for 18 years.
0:01:14 > 0:01:16His presence attracted an enormous amount of attention,
0:01:16 > 0:01:18just as he likes it.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21But was there just a shade less protectionism in his speech
0:01:21 > 0:01:26than had been anticipated?
0:01:26 > 0:01:28You'd have thought the gathering was all about Trump.
0:01:28 > 0:01:31Of course, the world's political and business elite was there too.
0:01:31 > 0:01:33Emmanuel Macron of France called for greater co-operation -
0:01:33 > 0:01:37so did Germany's Angela Merkel. But was she overshadowed by him?
0:01:37 > 0:01:40And as for Brexit, while Theresa May was keen
0:01:40 > 0:01:44to discuss the issue of internet reform, her Chancellor
0:01:44 > 0:01:46was ruffling feathers, not least in his own party,
0:01:46 > 0:01:48when he suggested that actually after March 2019, divergence
0:01:48 > 0:01:58between Britain and the EU would be pretty modest.
0:01:59 > 0:02:04We will come onto Brexit in a while. Let's begin with the bigger picture,
0:02:04 > 0:02:11everything we heard at Davos. Henry, let's start with you. We will start
0:02:11 > 0:02:16with the president, the first visit for nearly 20 years. Was it more
0:02:16 > 0:02:21conciliatory than the audience anticipated?I think people were
0:02:21 > 0:02:26anticipating a nativist speech, the kind of rhetoric we are used to from
0:02:26 > 0:02:30Trump. It was more temperate. Said America first, but not America
0:02:30 > 0:02:36alone. The first president to visit for many years. He had never been
0:02:36 > 0:02:41invited before as a businessman until now, as president. You always
0:02:41 > 0:02:45have to be careful about rhetoric and policy with Trump. He is hard to
0:02:45 > 0:02:49nail down. He says one thing one day, and his administration does
0:02:49 > 0:02:54another the next day. He said at Davos, we are not protectionist in
0:02:54 > 0:02:59the scary way the press are portraying, and yet at the same time
0:02:59 > 0:03:04tariffs have been slapped on solar panels, washing machines, allies
0:03:04 > 0:03:10from South Korea. It is hard to marry his rhetoric with the actions
0:03:10 > 0:03:17sometimes.Did you pick up on a sigh of relief from other countries? What
0:03:17 > 0:03:22was your take on how he was received?I think he was -- it was
0:03:22 > 0:03:26clearly made an effort to sound conciliatory. He made an effort to
0:03:26 > 0:03:30address that particular audience businessmen, plutocrats etc. But he
0:03:30 > 0:03:36couldn't help but make a few slights against the media and that didn't go
0:03:36 > 0:03:43down well. I think people were, as Henry said, perhaps expecting a more
0:03:43 > 0:03:49nativist speech. That didn't come through. He is the president of the
0:03:49 > 0:03:54United States and maybe there is a bit of the expectation and --
0:03:54 > 0:03:59expectation that he is becoming house-trained, getting into the
0:03:59 > 0:04:04wording and the style of becoming president of the United States. But
0:04:04 > 0:04:07as Henry also says, there is what he says and what the administration
0:04:07 > 0:04:12does.In terms of his attack on the media, he is still aware of his base
0:04:12 > 0:04:17back at home. Being at Davos, with a crowd plutocrats, oligarchs, people
0:04:17 > 0:04:22with vast amounts of wealth, different from his core voters, he
0:04:22 > 0:04:25has to also make some sort of show that he still keeps those folders in
0:04:25 > 0:04:30mind. Attacking the media is very popular with that base, as well as,
0:04:30 > 0:04:33I think he said, we should not forget those who have been left
0:04:33 > 0:04:40behind and forgotten. He had to make some concessions in his speech.It
0:04:40 > 0:04:43was a well constructed speech. I don't know if he wrote it or
0:04:43 > 0:04:48somebody else did. It was still full of contradictions. He put a huge
0:04:48 > 0:04:52focus on the fact that he despised regulations and was getting rid of
0:04:52 > 0:04:58loads of them. But he is a regulator. Immigration and his plans
0:04:58 > 0:05:03for that will involve bureaucracy coming out of the United States'
0:05:03 > 0:05:08years. He praised tax cuts and condemned government. And yet he has
0:05:08 > 0:05:11pledged to be one of the biggest spenders apparently on
0:05:11 > 0:05:15infrastructure and capital spending of any president. Like a lot of
0:05:15 > 0:05:20outsiders, he is not alone in this. His actual ideas, even in a
0:05:20 > 0:05:26relatively coherent speech, are wholly contradictory and confused.
0:05:26 > 0:05:33Is there not a valid point though into the broader point when he says
0:05:33 > 0:05:35a thriving, prosperous American economy is good for the global
0:05:35 > 0:05:43economy? He is effectively saying everybody benefits.I must say Davos
0:05:43 > 0:05:45is always conciliatory. There is something about the beautiful
0:05:45 > 0:05:48surroundings and the sense of varnished privilege that makes
0:05:48 > 0:05:53everybody relaxed and happy. Donald Trump in particular sounded as if he
0:05:53 > 0:05:58wanted to get on with everybody, to be nice and civilised towards
0:05:58 > 0:06:01everybody, and he was exceptionally fawning towards Britain, continually
0:06:01 > 0:06:04saying what a great country he thinks it is. I think he feels a
0:06:04 > 0:06:08visit to the UK is very important to his legacy and he wants to be loved
0:06:08 > 0:06:13here. But the truth is that many millions of Britons view him as a
0:06:13 > 0:06:18pariah and will let him know this when he eventually visits. I think
0:06:18 > 0:06:22the only group that Trump expressed his usual venal prejudice towards at
0:06:22 > 0:06:28Davos was the Palestinians. At the time he was sitting next to his
0:06:28 > 0:06:31ideological ally and close friend, Benyamin Netanyahu, and the
0:06:31 > 0:06:35effectively said he wanted to stop millions of dollars of aid to
0:06:35 > 0:06:41Palestinians because the Palestinian Authority showed disrespect towards
0:06:41 > 0:06:46Mike Pence, his vice president, during his recent visit to Israel.
0:06:46 > 0:06:50So essentially Donald Trump accuses the Palestinians of not being polite
0:06:50 > 0:06:55enough, as they land is stolen, as they are routinely murdered in their
0:06:55 > 0:07:02thousands, imprisoned in their hundreds, and undergo in all manners
0:07:02 > 0:07:06of human rights abuses. There was no mention of the incredibly
0:07:06 > 0:07:10provocative decision to move the US Embassy to Djourou so, while
0:07:10 > 0:07:13completely ignoring the Palestinian right to east Jerusalem as the
0:07:13 > 0:07:23capital. -- embassy to Jerusalem. I found it unsettling the way Trump
0:07:23 > 0:07:26threatened to wash his hands of the entire peace process are making out
0:07:26 > 0:07:31he had enough of the boorish Palestinians, while suggesting they
0:07:31 > 0:07:35should accept their fate and be polite towards the billions of
0:07:35 > 0:07:39dollars poured into Israel to ruin their lives.And we will certainly
0:07:39 > 0:07:43talk about that on another day. Davos is the World Economic Forum.
0:07:43 > 0:07:49That is what it is. That is what it is therefore away from Trump, is
0:07:49 > 0:07:52this a glorious talking shop? Is this just an opportunity for people
0:07:52 > 0:08:01to get together and network? Does it achieve anything?I think it is the
0:08:01 > 0:08:03place where politicians present their visions. It is worthy
0:08:03 > 0:08:08plutocrats of the world feel about themselves. For three days they will
0:08:08 > 0:08:11discuss inequality, refugees, all the problems of the world that very
0:08:11 > 0:08:16often they have contributed to create, but they are there
0:08:16 > 0:08:19discussing potential solutions. For the politicians it is the perfect
0:08:19 > 0:08:25platform to talk about their visions. That was clearly the case
0:08:25 > 0:08:27of Emmanuel Macron, the French president, who used the opportunity
0:08:27 > 0:08:33to say that France is back and it is a France that will lead in Europe.
0:08:33 > 0:08:37Very different for Theresa May, the British Prime Minister. She seems
0:08:37 > 0:08:43really out of place in Davos. It is a place of posturing. She is not the
0:08:43 > 0:08:49Prime Minister who likes to posture. She feels very uncomfortable. She
0:08:49 > 0:08:53looks very uncomfortable. She is also not a visionary. That has been
0:08:53 > 0:08:56one of her greatest handicaps as a Prime Minister. And she doesn't seem
0:08:56 > 0:09:00to like the attention, which is something very strange for a
0:09:00 > 0:09:03politician who reached the heights of political power. Normally
0:09:03 > 0:09:09politicians are very vain. And sometimes in a very good manner.You
0:09:09 > 0:09:15could say it is quite striking that she is like that.Absolutely.It is
0:09:15 > 0:09:18fascinating because what her Chancellor said in Davos caused all
0:09:18 > 0:09:22kinds of ructions back here, the use of the word modest. It is
0:09:22 > 0:09:31remarkable.Yeah, and Theresa May, that is very perceptive. In Britain
0:09:31 > 0:09:34and the United States we tend to elect actors as Prime Ministers.
0:09:34 > 0:09:38They love the performance of politics and the art of politics.
0:09:38 > 0:09:44They spend a lot of time reflecting on their own role on the stage. She
0:09:44 > 0:09:48is a publicly awkward, shy figure, who clearly doesn't like that side
0:09:48 > 0:09:51of politics, and it's unusual in Britain to have that kind of Prime
0:09:51 > 0:09:56Minister. On Philip Hammond, in fairness to Hammond, body said does
0:09:56 > 0:10:02not necessarily contradict the government's position. It is still
0:10:02 > 0:10:05so vague on Brexit. Virtually anything can be said and could fit
0:10:05 > 0:10:11in. So what he said, he subsequently defended by saying, but we are
0:10:11 > 0:10:16hoping to have as close to a free-trade agreement as possible
0:10:16 > 0:10:22with the rest of the European Union. But what isn't clear is how that
0:10:22 > 0:10:26becomes possible. So he can pop up and say, don't worry, things can be
0:10:26 > 0:10:34pretty much the same. That is true. That is the government aim. But they
0:10:34 > 0:10:40still are at the have their cake and eat it phase of their objectives.
0:10:40 > 0:10:43Equally you could have another hardline Brexit minister say, we
0:10:43 > 0:10:49must have the right from March of next year to start trading with
0:10:49 > 0:10:53other countries as a separate country outside the single market,
0:10:53 > 0:10:57outside the Customs Union. That implies a very big break with the
0:10:57 > 0:11:01rest of the European Union. So we are more or less a year away from
0:11:01 > 0:11:07this happening. And actually, you could have two wildly different
0:11:07 > 0:11:09interpretations from different senior Cabinet ministers of what
0:11:09 > 0:11:16will happen. They can both claim it is close to government policy
0:11:16 > 0:11:21because government policy is so imprecise.This circle is right back
0:11:21 > 0:11:24to Theresa May. If you had a strong enough Prime Minister was able to
0:11:24 > 0:11:28exert discipline and have a unified vision for a cabinet, it doesn't
0:11:28 > 0:11:31mean you have no dissent, but it means you can manage it in a way she
0:11:31 > 0:11:34hasn't, we wouldn't be in this position and we would be further
0:11:34 > 0:11:40along in terms of negotiations than we are. The fact that anyone can say
0:11:40 > 0:11:44anything and it somehow seems consonant with government policy
0:11:44 > 0:11:48means you don't have a policy at all. If you are a policy of
0:11:48 > 0:11:51everywhere, you are a policy of nowhere, just like she said of
0:11:51 > 0:11:56citizenship.How much longer until a decision has to be made? It has to,
0:11:56 > 0:12:00grow down one way or the other, ultimately, doesn't it?It looks
0:12:00 > 0:12:08like Theresa May is hoping to get to March 2019, she will be going
0:12:08 > 0:12:12through the transition period that might take three years, without any
0:12:12 > 0:12:15clear vision of what Brexit actually means. This is what I think she
0:12:15 > 0:12:21hopes her.I think psychologically Brexiteers will insist something
0:12:21 > 0:12:25very big happens in March 2000 and 19. The indications are that very
0:12:25 > 0:12:29little will happen in fact Britain will continue to muddle through a
0:12:29 > 0:12:32transition period while there is no certainty in the meantime. There is
0:12:32 > 0:12:38no concrete policies. This to me shows what a vague concept Brexit
0:12:38 > 0:12:42always was. There has never been an impression of Britain ending its
0:12:42 > 0:12:48dealings with the European Union.I think people who voted to leave knew
0:12:48 > 0:12:53what they were voting for a good use a politically it is not?I think the
0:12:53 > 0:13:00in and out referendum, for many, was possible. Britain is redefining its
0:13:00 > 0:13:03relationship with the EU, which is very different from leaving the EU
0:13:03 > 0:13:09completely.In fairness to Theresa May, even if she was replaced, and
0:13:09 > 0:13:13there is talk about that, it is beginning to happen again among
0:13:13 > 0:13:21Conservative MPs, it is very hard to see, even if a Titan who, enjoyed
0:13:21 > 0:13:26the theatre of politics, and had a clear form of -- idea of what Brexit
0:13:26 > 0:13:31-- what form Brexit should take, could get a deal through this
0:13:31 > 0:13:35particular House of Commons, now it might be in the end that she gets
0:13:35 > 0:13:40quite a bad deal. And it still gets through the House of Commons because
0:13:40 > 0:13:47of various factors. But if the deal is defeated in the House of Commons
0:13:47 > 0:13:53then the United Kingdom is in an extraordinarily -- extraordinary
0:13:53 > 0:13:57constitutional crisis. A hung parliament is not impossible. I
0:13:57 > 0:14:00think if she were to be replaced that would throw the negotiations
0:14:00 > 0:14:06into complete disarray. There would be a Tory leadership contest.There
0:14:06 > 0:14:09are presumably lots of people making that point in the party? You talk to
0:14:09 > 0:14:15people in the party in Westminster all the time. Are people saying that
0:14:15 > 0:14:20would be more disruptive than what is happening now?There would be
0:14:20 > 0:14:25some Staring saying this is going so badly wrong that we have to act. But
0:14:25 > 0:14:29most I speak to still say it would disrupt the negotiations. The
0:14:29 > 0:14:34Brexiteers, some of them say, that might jeopardise Brexit, which is
0:14:34 > 0:14:39what they have been waiting for since they were six-month old. --
0:14:39 > 0:14:48six months old. If we do this, that could happen etc. It is not that
0:14:48 > 0:14:52unusual with British Prime Ministers. Quite a few have been
0:14:52 > 0:14:55kept in place for many years for fear of the alternative being worse.
0:14:55 > 0:15:00That keeps in place for now. Politics is Sophie Bradley in the
0:15:00 > 0:15:05United Kingdom as in many other countries, that could change very
0:15:05 > 0:15:09quickly. -- politics is so febrile. It means at the moment she keeps the
0:15:09 > 0:15:17job.She has no full majority of her party in the House of Commons
0:15:17 > 0:15:22because she chose to cause an election -- call an election which
0:15:22 > 0:15:25effectively lost, and now we are in the situation we're in. It goes back
0:15:25 > 0:15:30to her again, doesn't it?There is no doubt the election is the context
0:15:30 > 0:15:35of everything. It is very unusual for a leader to lose a majority for
0:15:35 > 0:15:39our party and stay on. She stayed on. It explains the sort of enhanced
0:15:39 > 0:15:43authority of Jeremy Corbyn. The election of last year changed
0:15:43 > 0:15:48everything in the UK. And of course it is the context of the precarious
0:15:48 > 0:15:54Brexit talks. She had a big majority. -- if she had a big
0:15:54 > 0:15:58majority she could basically tell her party what form Brexit should
0:15:58 > 0:16:02take. And she lost it.It does seem like a particularly precarious
0:16:02 > 0:16:05period at the moment. Thank you for now.
0:16:05 > 0:16:08For the last week, Turkey has been sending tanks into north
0:16:08 > 0:16:15western Syria to fight the Kurdish YPG militia.
0:16:15 > 0:16:19Though Turkey is sheltering three million refugees from the seven year
0:16:19 > 0:16:21long civil war in Syria, it is alarmed by the YPG,
0:16:21 > 0:16:24which it regards as terrorists linked to the banned PKK,
0:16:24 > 0:16:28carving out land along the long border between the two countries.
0:16:28 > 0:16:32Turkey is the US's Nato ally.
0:16:32 > 0:16:35The Kurds have been a support to the US in the drive to eliminate
0:16:35 > 0:16:37so-called Islamic State.
0:16:37 > 0:16:44The US, therefore, appears to be on two sides in one war.
0:16:44 > 0:16:46What happens now?
0:16:46 > 0:16:48President Erdogan on Friday actually declared he might
0:16:48 > 0:16:53expand this offensive?
0:16:53 > 0:16:59First off, the US role in this, is it in a model? What does it do to
0:16:59 > 0:17:04resolve it?I think we can spend plenty of time working out how
0:17:04 > 0:17:08Donald Trump gets out of a model. The truth is everything about him
0:17:08 > 0:17:18seems to be based on confusion. He is arguably the most inconsistent,
0:17:18 > 0:17:22confused and thoroughly unprincipled US President in history. That is
0:17:22 > 0:17:27saying something. Muddling along is a phrase that suits him perfectly.
0:17:27 > 0:17:31His policies are based on pettiness and mood swings. The reality is that
0:17:31 > 0:17:39the Kurds are the decidedly unusual ally to Trump's ally. -- America.
0:17:39 > 0:17:46They want to get rid of borders. And they are anti-Islamist, which has
0:17:46 > 0:17:51become a byword for anti-Islam. Anybody who is any -- anti-Islam is
0:17:51 > 0:17:57OK by Donald Trump. That is why he ended a up supporting Britain first,
0:17:57 > 0:18:00although he has apparently apologised. Turkey is a Nato ally.
0:18:00 > 0:18:06And America will be duty-bound to support them, even though the Turks
0:18:06 > 0:18:15generally view the Kurds as terrorist. You mentioned the PKK. It
0:18:15 > 0:18:18has been calling for an independent Kurdish state within Turkey for
0:18:18 > 0:18:23decades. But it is also lending military support to the Kurds
0:18:23 > 0:18:29currently fighting in Syria, but also in Iraq. It is a listed
0:18:29 > 0:18:33terrorist organisation, not just by Turkey, but also by several states
0:18:33 > 0:18:39and organisations, including Nato, the US and the European Union. The
0:18:39 > 0:18:43fudge is that Kurdish militia groups come in a number of different
0:18:43 > 0:18:48varieties. America will continue backing what they view as the good
0:18:48 > 0:19:01Kurds to try to wipe out groups like ices. -- Isis. We have to remember
0:19:01 > 0:19:10that America have been paddling up to fight a common enemy. More
0:19:10 > 0:19:14recently in Libya, they supported the rebels, many of whom were
0:19:14 > 0:19:17affiliated with Al-Qaeda. We also must bear in mind that a lot of that
0:19:17 > 0:19:24logistical support that will be provided in theatres of war will be
0:19:24 > 0:19:29covered. Donald Trump's America will be offering logistical support
0:19:29 > 0:19:33without anybody, let alone the Turks knowing about it. He will keep
0:19:33 > 0:19:41instructing his commanders to do what they have to do.It is not just
0:19:41 > 0:19:45the US though, is it? All Western nations, if they had to pick one
0:19:45 > 0:19:48primary aim in that region, everybody wants to eliminate
0:19:48 > 0:19:53so-called Islamic State. That is something an awful lot of countries
0:19:53 > 0:19:59agree on.Absolutely. Knowing your enemy is the famous saying about the
0:19:59 > 0:20:02art of war. It shows how difficult it is to identify your enemies
0:20:02 > 0:20:10nowadays. We have got into such a complicated, you know, the world is
0:20:10 > 0:20:13so complicated, especially in the Middle East, where it is hard to
0:20:13 > 0:20:19identify where the alliances like, and we have increasingly mass,
0:20:19 > 0:20:24groups substituting for traditional armies.I want to talk about Rex
0:20:24 > 0:20:30Tillerson's speech.We need to think about what triggered this reaction
0:20:30 > 0:20:34from Turkey. It is essentially the United States going back on promises
0:20:34 > 0:20:40made a few years ago of our support of the Kurdish militia is only going
0:20:40 > 0:20:46so far. In recent weeks we have the US announcing they are going to
0:20:46 > 0:20:51build a 30,000 strong border separating Turkey from Syria. And
0:20:51 > 0:20:58that is essentially seen as a massive threat by Turkey. If we add
0:20:58 > 0:21:02to that the US' recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel,
0:21:02 > 0:21:09this is something that profoundly irritated Turkey. Turkey was quite
0:21:09 > 0:21:13instrumental in taking sure there would be a vote against the United
0:21:13 > 0:21:17States at the United Nations. There is quite a lot of dissonance between
0:21:17 > 0:21:23Turkey and the United States. Turkey is becoming very strategic and its
0:21:23 > 0:21:26relations with Russia as well. And of course they are, and you would
0:21:26 > 0:21:30think the Trump administration would understand that, the way they see
0:21:30 > 0:21:35it, they are securing their border. You would think the administration
0:21:35 > 0:21:40in America would understand the importance of a border.Not by --
0:21:40 > 0:21:43not that I ever feel like absolving the Trump administration of
0:21:43 > 0:21:48anything, but it was under Obama that we first started to support the
0:21:48 > 0:21:55Kurds as our proxies in that fight. The US choosing questionable allies
0:21:55 > 0:21:58to the cost -- to prosecute the war against Isis has been true from the
0:21:58 > 0:22:03beginning. We have also partnered with Islamic radicals in the region.
0:22:03 > 0:22:12The good ones, we some I decided. This dates back before the Trump
0:22:12 > 0:22:16ministration, no Trump finds himself in the middle of this morass.Rex
0:22:16 > 0:22:20Tillerson has been talking about it again this week. Did you detect any
0:22:20 > 0:22:27shift in US policy? Did it become clearer?I didn't detect a shift in
0:22:27 > 0:22:29US policy overall. The Obama administration was looking at this
0:22:29 > 0:22:34as a longer term project. It was a shift from Donald Trump's own vision
0:22:34 > 0:22:39of no more foreign entitlements, being much more isolationist. Roger
0:22:39 > 0:22:44Rex Tillerson say was that we are going to be in there for the long
0:22:44 > 0:22:52haul, diplomatically and militarily, to help build Syria. This is what
0:22:52 > 0:22:55Donald Trump said he wanted to get us out of. Whether they have devoted
0:22:55 > 0:23:00resources to that is another story. Do you have a strategy? I'm not sure
0:23:00 > 0:23:06they do. This is all part and parcel of wider American, not just Trump,
0:23:06 > 0:23:11wider American confusion in that region and getting ourselves into a
0:23:11 > 0:23:18quite admire that we haven't figured out how to extract ourselves from.
0:23:18 > 0:23:21If there aren't the resources to back up what Rex Tillerson said,
0:23:21 > 0:23:34they're hoping to bolster regional actors?I think... What we know is
0:23:34 > 0:23:39that these allegiances can and do change over time. Just look at how
0:23:39 > 0:23:44Gaddafi was a close ally of the West before they turned on him. If I were
0:23:44 > 0:23:48the Kurds, I would be very guarded, that the US may turn on them as
0:23:48 > 0:23:53well. Once they feel their job has been done. Historically, powerful
0:23:53 > 0:23:58nations have always used other groups as cannon fodder. There is
0:23:58 > 0:24:06nothing new there, frankly.And with President Erdogan on Friday saying
0:24:06 > 0:24:10this could intensify, the tanks will keep rolling across the border, this
0:24:10 > 0:24:15continues with the world watching on?I think it's going to be quite
0:24:15 > 0:24:20dangerous if he continues pushing. Unfortunately, in the wider context
0:24:20 > 0:24:25of US Turkey relations, they haven't been worse in a long time. Besides
0:24:25 > 0:24:28this conflict, there is a sense in Turkey of a conspiracy on the part
0:24:28 > 0:24:32of some in the US of trying to overthrow the Erdogan government
0:24:32 > 0:24:36because there is a cleric who resides in the US who was probably
0:24:36 > 0:24:41behind the coup that was put down a couple of years ago. I think this
0:24:41 > 0:24:43whole situation is now adding point where nobody really kind of knows
0:24:43 > 0:24:48how to get out it.It'll be interesting to see how the member
0:24:48 > 0:24:54states of will react.With a defence Turkey? The results of the European
0:24:54 > 0:25:03dimension. That is also fraying. The cooperation between Turkey and the
0:25:03 > 0:25:09European Union is fraying. Will London and Paris, to help or at
0:25:09 > 0:25:14least support Erdogan? That is something we will watch in the
0:25:14 > 0:25:17coming weeks.Thank you very much to all of you.
0:25:17 > 0:25:20That's all we have time for on Dateline London this week.
0:25:20 > 0:25:23We'll be back with more passionate debate next week at the same time.
0:25:23 > 0:25:25Thanks for being with us today. Goodbye.