0:00:21 > 0:00:23Hello and a very warm welcome to Dateline London.
0:00:23 > 0:00:25I'm Carrie Gracie.
0:00:25 > 0:00:28This week we look at the continuing carnage in Syria, and discuss
0:00:28 > 0:00:31the latest twists in the Brexit debate.
0:00:31 > 0:00:33My guests this week: The conservative political
0:00:33 > 0:00:35commentator Alex Deane, Marc Roche of Le Point,
0:00:35 > 0:00:39the American writer and broadcaster Jeffrey Kofman,
0:00:39 > 0:00:44and the columnist for the Gulf based newspaper The National,
0:00:44 > 0:00:53and Arab Weekly Rashmee Roshann Lall.
0:00:53 > 0:00:55Barrel bombs, air strikes and shelling by Syrian government
0:00:55 > 0:00:58forces have killed nearly 500 people this week, many of them children.
0:00:58 > 0:01:01Eastern Ghouta the beseiged area on the edge of the Syrian capital
0:01:01 > 0:01:05Damascus, has been described as "Hell on Earth".
0:01:06 > 0:01:07The UN has
0:01:07 > 0:01:09called for a cease fire.
0:01:09 > 0:01:12Rashmee, you've been following this nightmare, do you see an end
0:01:12 > 0:01:19to the suffering of people in Syria?
0:01:19 > 0:01:24I think the response to that question should certainly not to be
0:01:24 > 0:01:30along the United Nations children's fund issued. Its institutional heart
0:01:30 > 0:01:36was so heavy that it could not describe the suffering of the people
0:01:36 > 0:01:40of eastern Ghouta, and it simply issued a bank statements, saying the
0:01:40 > 0:01:44truth is beyond language, there is nothing further to say. -- a blank
0:01:44 > 0:01:52statement. I would say, one has two recognise words can have the quality
0:01:52 > 0:01:58of deeds. Let's look at the facts, let's use words to do that. The
0:01:58 > 0:02:02facts on the ground art, Syrian's President Bashar al-Assad, as long
0:02:02 > 0:02:07as he checks in with Moscow, he can pretty much do what ever he wants in
0:02:07 > 0:02:11the country. As long as he has robust foreign support. There has
0:02:11 > 0:02:16been a stand-off with the UN with much of the world trying desperately
0:02:16 > 0:02:21to get this very small concession which is a humanitarian halt to the
0:02:21 > 0:02:28siege and staff strike strategies that Assad is using. They can't do
0:02:28 > 0:02:33it because the Russians are stopping it. The facts on the ground are that
0:02:33 > 0:02:38the Syrian regime is there, it's not going away, and one finds it's very
0:02:38 > 0:02:43hard to understand the rational basis of what some trumped
0:02:43 > 0:02:49administration officials describe as a return of the Syrian state, not
0:02:49 > 0:02:54return of the Syrian regime, kind of approach. They are not going
0:02:54 > 0:03:00anywhere, it can end if we recognise the facts on the ground.You are a
0:03:00 > 0:03:03North American, Jeffrey, what's your view on the Trump administration
0:03:03 > 0:03:09recognising facts on the ground?We saw a year ago in April when the
0:03:09 > 0:03:13sarin gas was used, that was the red line in the sand, and to Trump's
0:03:13 > 0:03:19credit he actually responded. The air strikes destroyed 20% of the
0:03:19 > 0:03:23Syrian air force. He has calculated that is a red line, Assad, I can do
0:03:23 > 0:03:29chlorine, these huge bombs, all sorts of carnage. But if I don't do
0:03:29 > 0:03:33chemical warfare per se, I can get away with it. That is what has
0:03:33 > 0:03:37happened. This will not be solved with American leadership. America is
0:03:37 > 0:03:40in the midst of a nervous breakdown, it is to internal looking right now
0:03:40 > 0:03:45to care about this. I despair because I don't see how this will
0:03:45 > 0:03:50work. Russia is playing chess, the rest of the world is playing
0:03:50 > 0:03:56checkers. Of course we can hope and in some way there must be a
0:03:56 > 0:04:01solution, I struggled to see where it is.France, long experienced in
0:04:01 > 0:04:05the Middle East, the French pushing hard for that UN Security Council
0:04:05 > 0:04:09resolution. Is there a game of chess that can be turned into checkers or
0:04:09 > 0:04:15vice versa?The problem is that in the Security Council, Russia who has
0:04:15 > 0:04:21a veto and is a prominent member, who knows very well the UN because
0:04:21 > 0:04:27of the court, is making the situation impossible. The only hope
0:04:27 > 0:04:34with America out of the game is France. And Britain. They have one
0:04:34 > 0:04:39moment they can use against the Assad regime. It's Russia. It's
0:04:39 > 0:04:46hardening the sanctions, and if you think that there are lots of Putin's
0:04:46 > 0:04:52friends who have property in Britain, property in France and on
0:04:52 > 0:04:55the Cote d'Azur, him and each suitable club, the owner is close,
0:04:55 > 0:05:02they could seize all this. -- the Chelsea football club. But Britain
0:05:02 > 0:05:06and France love Russian money so they would be any help. I am at
0:05:06 > 0:05:12least on a moral issue, France and Britain, they are showing the way.
0:05:12 > 0:05:16It's no accident all of us have mentioned Russia and the involvement
0:05:16 > 0:05:25in the Assad regime. Long gone are the days when President Obama mocked
0:05:25 > 0:05:32Mitt Romney for calling Russia the threat of the future. Here I think
0:05:32 > 0:05:37criticism of Russia is very well founded. As well as Russia's formal
0:05:37 > 0:05:41forces on the ground in Syria, which are significant, we see the
0:05:41 > 0:05:50operation of companies like Wagner PMC, Private military companies,
0:05:50 > 0:05:55mercenaries, on the ground embedded in Assad's forces, fighting the
0:05:55 > 0:05:59Kurdish anti-Assad forces. Why this matters so much, fighting against
0:05:59 > 0:06:03the Americans directly, we are seeing Russians albeit not in
0:06:03 > 0:06:07Russian uniform but it seems with the blessing of the Kremlin in
0:06:07 > 0:06:12operation of the 2500 of them, fighting alongside Assad's forces
0:06:12 > 0:06:16directly against Americans. It's an incredibly dangerous situation, so
0:06:16 > 0:06:19it's not just about what happens in Syria to solve it, also the
0:06:19 > 0:06:27potential risk of Americans and Russians facing directly. Earlier
0:06:27 > 0:06:29this month we saw a confrontation between Russian and American forces
0:06:29 > 0:06:32in which the western side claims 100 Russians died, the Kremlin omits
0:06:32 > 0:06:37several dozen did. We get dragged into a conflict in a way we saw for
0:06:37 > 0:06:43much of the 20th century, bad news. I think we must understand that for
0:06:43 > 0:06:49Russia there is a lot at stake here. This is Syria, strategically so
0:06:49 > 0:06:54important. The only Russian Mediterranean -based is there, they
0:06:54 > 0:06:58want to keep their foothold geopolitically in this area. The US
0:06:58 > 0:07:01is focused elsewhere.Presumably for the Russians it stands to reason
0:07:01 > 0:07:06that they want to give their Syrian allies time to finish off the rebels
0:07:06 > 0:07:14on the edge of Damascus.There are a lots of arguments that say we should
0:07:14 > 0:07:19prevent the collapse of the Syrian state. Libya is not a shining
0:07:19 > 0:07:25template, nobody wants to go there. This is not about rewarding bad
0:07:25 > 0:07:29behaviour or giving carte blanche to callous leaders, it is about if we
0:07:29 > 0:07:35care about the suffering of the Syrian people, we want it to stop.
0:07:35 > 0:07:39The trouble is, Mark's point was the French and British responsibility
0:07:39 > 0:07:44applies. We were for and against Assad, now we are not sure. Our
0:07:44 > 0:07:46foreign policy seems to be that he should go but on balance we would
0:07:46 > 0:07:53rather the state did not collapse. A contradiction.The sanctions, they
0:07:53 > 0:08:00cannot put up with more sanctions. The economy is doing badly.Surely
0:08:00 > 0:08:06the her point is we need to let the Syrian people out of this misery and
0:08:06 > 0:08:11do I understand correctly, you are basically saying at some point, the
0:08:11 > 0:08:13Syrian government should be assisting in finishing this in as
0:08:13 > 0:08:22civil a way as possible?Basically what we are understanding is there
0:08:22 > 0:08:26maybe a arrangement with Mr Assad, we may talk about that at some
0:08:26 > 0:08:32point, he has it. Maybe because the Russians have him by the short and
0:08:32 > 0:08:37Curly is, let the situation gets to there. If people can help, help. If
0:08:37 > 0:08:42not, get the message and Get Out. You bring up Libya and I covered
0:08:42 > 0:08:48Libya for ABC News. The failed state solution is one we all fear now. And
0:08:48 > 0:08:53rack very much is like that as well. What I worry about that is it's
0:08:53 > 0:08:56easier to let things bump along and let the people of Syria suffer
0:08:56 > 0:09:01horrendously manages to find a long-term solution. Particularly in
0:09:01 > 0:09:07today's world where you can talk about this concept of empathy, we as
0:09:07 > 0:09:11consumers of media in the west are so beaten down by the imagery, as I
0:09:11 > 0:09:15was preparing for this and reviewing some of the footage last night it's
0:09:15 > 0:09:20really hard to watch. If you go to the BBC website, it's much easier to
0:09:20 > 0:09:26go to some list article on bus speed than to look at these children
0:09:26 > 0:09:33suffering.Assad is a war criminal. He should not be allowed to do what
0:09:33 > 0:09:38he is doing.Who is taking the leadership to say that? We are
0:09:38 > 0:09:46sitting in London, where is the outrage from Westminster, where is
0:09:46 > 0:09:53Boris Johnson on this?Fatigue.More to the point, who can.?The
0:09:53 > 0:10:00Russians.-- who can enforce that? Can I bring up the Koran?
0:10:03 > 0:10:12-- can I bring up Iran? That is another question.That is in a way
0:10:12 > 0:10:15balanced because Israel and Iran balance each other, they are not
0:10:15 > 0:10:20really the main proponent, it's Russia. Without the Russian air
0:10:20 > 0:10:25force, Assad is dead. It is Russia we should target, Iran in a way has
0:10:25 > 0:10:30his brother, their side to the story.What do you think about the
0:10:30 > 0:10:38question of Boris Johnson. Much distracted about events with Brexit.
0:10:38 > 0:10:42I think there is a significant role for our country and this discussion,
0:10:42 > 0:10:47a moral responsibility given our history and heritage in that region.
0:10:47 > 0:10:52I do think we should not overstep our bounds. If we are going to act
0:10:52 > 0:10:57in this environment, if you break it, you own it. If we intervene
0:10:57 > 0:11:02significantly and if Assad were to go as a result, two big ifs, who
0:11:02 > 0:11:06goes in his place? What is our responsibility for popping up that
0:11:06 > 0:11:09regime? The pragmatic answer is that this terrible person running his
0:11:09 > 0:11:13country is better rather than propping up a new regime for which
0:11:13 > 0:11:17we back of the responsibility that cannot go well.War criminals
0:11:17 > 0:11:26sometimes have to be tolerated?Gas. And leaders sometimes had to stay in
0:11:26 > 0:11:35office.He is a war criminal, not a bad leader.What about the UN? We
0:11:35 > 0:11:39had the French ambassador talking about this being a key credibility
0:11:39 > 0:11:42moments, not just the graveyard for many Syrians but it also should not
0:11:42 > 0:11:48just be the graveyard for the UN Security Council.Is it is now 11
0:11:48 > 0:11:53times Russia has blocked the resolutions on this? There is a
0:11:53 > 0:11:56paralysis here, the Russian agenda and the rest of the world's agenda
0:11:56 > 0:12:02are in conflict. The structure of the UN is now paralysed and the
0:12:02 > 0:12:09credibility very much at stake. Basically every major international
0:12:09 > 0:12:14issue like this has failed to be resolved because of the kinds of
0:12:14 > 0:12:17power imbalances. In the end we form these so-called coalitions of the
0:12:17 > 0:12:22willing and if something will happen here, that's where it would be.The
0:12:22 > 0:12:26UN is doing a terrific job, a very good job with the 5 million
0:12:26 > 0:12:32refugees.It's good for other things.We must move on but a yes,
0:12:32 > 0:12:37no answer. If there were listeners or viewers to this programme in
0:12:37 > 0:12:41Eastern Ghouta today, yes or no, is there any hope for them in the near
0:12:41 > 0:12:48future to an end of the air strikes and the siege they are living under?
0:12:48 > 0:12:55No. There is always hope.I refuse to say there isn't.I don't see it
0:12:55 > 0:13:03but I want to believe it.
0:13:03 > 0:13:09One of the biggest questions is Brexit.
0:13:09 > 0:13:10Ambitious managed divergence.
0:13:10 > 0:13:12That is the expression the British Prime Minister Theresa May
0:13:12 > 0:13:15and her senior ministers came up with at a summit this week
0:13:15 > 0:13:17to describe their vision of Britain's future relationship
0:13:17 > 0:13:25with the European Union.
0:13:25 > 0:13:28The president of the European Council called it pure illusion.
0:13:28 > 0:13:30On Monday the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn will set
0:13:30 > 0:13:31out his alternative.
0:13:31 > 0:13:37Alex, where does ambitious managed divergence stand today?
0:13:37 > 0:13:40Our Prime Minister with the office comes a very nice country manor
0:13:40 > 0:13:45house, and she went with ten of her senior ministers, her Brexit War
0:13:45 > 0:13:50Cabinet, to discuss what happens next. There was some agreement
0:13:50 > 0:13:54amongst those people, not least in mutual recognition of goods amongst
0:13:54 > 0:13:59us and the EU. That matters because the Conservative Party has not been
0:13:59 > 0:14:02entirely united on questions about future relationships with the EU.
0:14:02 > 0:14:06You are right, the next step is what happens domestically in the UK
0:14:06 > 0:14:12between the government and the opposition. Jeremy Corbyn's position
0:14:12 > 0:14:15on this, perversely, given that he's not in government will be quite
0:14:15 > 0:14:20decisive for the mid-stage we are now looking at. He must decide, I'm
0:14:20 > 0:14:25amazed he has pulled off this trick of not really showing his hand, is
0:14:25 > 0:14:30he going to come out in favour of us remaining in the customs union or a
0:14:30 > 0:14:34customs union, and if so, will he take the Labour Party with him to
0:14:34 > 0:14:41vote against the government?And the answer?I think he won't. Putting
0:14:41 > 0:14:46your colours to the mast like that undermines him with many Labour
0:14:46 > 0:14:51voters who voted to leave the European Union, and makes a start
0:14:51 > 0:14:53position between him and the government with the government
0:14:53 > 0:14:57saying we are trying to implement the largest baby ever had in our
0:14:57 > 0:15:01country and you are seeking to stymie it. Putting aside principles,
0:15:01 > 0:15:05the practical political question is, could he defeat the government? That
0:15:05 > 0:15:09I don't know. If you stood up for the customs union, some Conservative
0:15:09 > 0:15:14MPs would vote with him.We will come back to that. I want to go back
0:15:14 > 0:15:20to that checkers moments, the kind of, some called it a fudge, others
0:15:20 > 0:15:23called it ambitious, the Prime Minister playing a blinder. As
0:15:23 > 0:15:27someone not in the entrails of Brexit everyday, do you feel you
0:15:27 > 0:15:30watch that episode and you now understood where the government
0:15:30 > 0:15:35stands on Brexit?I am a political junkie so I do understand it but for
0:15:35 > 0:15:39much of the world, if you compile the definitive Brexit dictionary
0:15:39 > 0:15:44after all this is over much after March 2019, there will be these key
0:15:44 > 0:15:50phrases, manage divergences, the vassal state, cake and eat it
0:15:50 > 0:15:57philosophy. The three baskets approach. All of it goes on and on.
0:15:57 > 0:16:03Basically, as one can understand it, clearly, the EU keeps expressing
0:16:03 > 0:16:07great surprise and the world DeMent at the British position. It's always
0:16:07 > 0:16:15been clear.Its posture.The British want everything. They have said it
0:16:15 > 0:16:22over and over. Which part of that event not understand? Whether it is
0:16:22 > 0:16:25unattainable or not.We have already heard the president of the European
0:16:25 > 0:16:30Council is a pure illusion, is there a route by which the UK can win all
0:16:30 > 0:16:36gain no pain?No, because you cannot cherry pick the single market or the
0:16:36 > 0:16:42custom union, you are in or you are out. The checkers compromise is
0:16:42 > 0:16:47purely for internal, because as far as the 27 are concerned, they will
0:16:47 > 0:16:57refuse it.It's a fudge?Yes, a domestic fudge. You have on one side
0:16:57 > 0:17:03a very divided UK Government, who is coming now with this cherry picking
0:17:03 > 0:17:08off, what they want. On the other side, which you forget, the 27 are
0:17:08 > 0:17:12all united. They all know what they to do, Britain is isolated, Britain
0:17:12 > 0:17:22has absolutely no cards.Let's just checked...I just want a reality
0:17:22 > 0:17:25check. This is now more than a year and a half into this discussion, we
0:17:25 > 0:17:30are approaching a year before the divorce, whatever you want to call
0:17:30 > 0:17:38it, that's the polite word.An open marriage!We are still talking about
0:17:38 > 0:17:42general terms and concepts. We have moved from Brexit meaning Brexit to
0:17:42 > 0:17:47these new terms that you rhyme off, yet we are not getting into
0:17:47 > 0:17:54specifics. It just shows that Theresa May as you say has this
0:17:54 > 0:17:57impossible balancing act within her party. The country does not know
0:17:57 > 0:18:00where it's going. We should be concerned about the lack of
0:18:00 > 0:18:07leadership.There was an agreement in phase one. Good. There will be an
0:18:07 > 0:18:13agreement on phase two, which will be bad for Britain. It is moving on.
0:18:13 > 0:18:20The trade now is the most important thing. Again, Britain is isolated in
0:18:20 > 0:18:23trade, the illusions of grandeur that they can get there on their
0:18:23 > 0:18:30own, it's a medium-sized country facing 27.This is a negotiation in
0:18:30 > 0:18:34which people are taking postures. The peculiar thing, I am not saying
0:18:34 > 0:18:38you were doing this, but the peculiar thing in our country, we
0:18:38 > 0:18:41look at what the government does and pick it apart, then we look at what
0:18:41 > 0:18:46the EU says, equally posturing on their side, and say here is the
0:18:46 > 0:18:50Gospel handed down to us by these leaders of the EU. Actually a lot of
0:18:50 > 0:18:55what's being said publicly is hot air in preparation for real hard
0:18:55 > 0:18:58negotiation, bad news for viewers who want to get this over and done
0:18:58 > 0:19:04with. It would be concluded until Q1 next year.I wanted to point out the
0:19:04 > 0:19:09EU, the United position is likely to splinter and has already.Why? It
0:19:09 > 0:19:16hasn't. 27...Because the first post Brexit budget of 2021 is starting to
0:19:16 > 0:19:20be discussed. We will see it in May, there are significant differences
0:19:20 > 0:19:24are merging and more will emerge over trying to plug that big hole,
0:19:24 > 0:19:3010 billion euros.That is something the UK can take advantage of?
0:19:30 > 0:19:37Indeed, one hopes they can. In the security Corporation field. The
0:19:37 > 0:19:41Europeans must spend more on security.
0:19:41 > 0:19:44-- security cooperation. No one knows what it will look like,
0:19:44 > 0:19:49perhaps not even Alex.The important thing is not the security, we all
0:19:49 > 0:19:56agreed. The Brits need Europe. The Canada thing, this delusion that the
0:19:56 > 0:20:04UK will get Canada plus plus, plus. The Canada deal took seven years.
0:20:04 > 0:20:10Alex is saying that's a posture.You know very well it does not include
0:20:10 > 0:20:17service, financial service.The Canadian deal is not useless. More
0:20:17 > 0:20:21over, the average trade deal takes two or less and you must bear in
0:20:21 > 0:20:24mind the importance attached to a trade deal between us and the EU if
0:20:24 > 0:20:28there is to be one given we are each other's largest trading partners.
0:20:28 > 0:20:32This is not like forming a deal with another standard donation, it's not
0:20:32 > 0:20:37like forming a deal with another third nation, the day we leave we
0:20:37 > 0:20:40will be Europe's largest trading partner with who we operate a
0:20:40 > 0:20:47massive trading surplus. That point about splintering as fair, some
0:20:47 > 0:20:49countries will want things more than others and the closer you get to the
0:20:49 > 0:20:56finish line, the more...This is a particularly interesting week.
0:20:56 > 0:21:03Monday, we have Jeremy Corbyn speaking. Where Alex began, it's
0:21:03 > 0:21:07critical we watch what happens Monday. Corbyn who has been defined
0:21:07 > 0:21:11as an ideologue has the potential to pitted to being a pragmatist on
0:21:11 > 0:21:14Monday, and potentially we talk about chess and checkers, he could
0:21:14 > 0:21:21play a really interesting chess game. If he could force the
0:21:21 > 0:21:24government's hand there is a scenario that is not outrageous that
0:21:24 > 0:21:29says he could force an election sometime this year.Walk us through
0:21:29 > 0:21:34these steps, by peeling off rebels? By peeling off government rebels, by
0:21:34 > 0:21:40saying Labour is now pro-customs union, or for a soft Brexit. That
0:21:40 > 0:21:44would potentially bring it more to where the Lib Dems fit in.Do you
0:21:44 > 0:21:50think Corbyn will do that?I put my crystal ball away, I have been so
0:21:50 > 0:21:55wrong at this desk so many times. I think we should watch and see. Then
0:21:55 > 0:21:58you have Theresa May scheduled to speak Friday to give her position,
0:21:58 > 0:22:07task has already said she is delusional. This is a critical week.
0:22:07 > 0:22:10What kind of partner pre-emptively slacks off the thing being said by
0:22:10 > 0:22:14the person they are supposed to be negotiating with?You want to cherry
0:22:14 > 0:22:19pick again.U2 have been round that argument. I want to hear what you
0:22:19 > 0:22:25have to say about that dilemma.I hope he comes down to stay in the
0:22:25 > 0:22:31customs union and that this government, useless government, very
0:22:31 > 0:22:35useless government, as far as negotiation is concerned. They will
0:22:35 > 0:22:41fall because at the end of the day the EU is faced with a government
0:22:41 > 0:22:46which is not knowing what it wants, it is divided, you need a strong...
0:22:46 > 0:22:51That is your hope for you think that will happen?I think that Corbyn
0:22:51 > 0:22:58will go for the customs union.I think the Labour leader will go for
0:22:58 > 0:23:04a customs union. I think it's all about jobs and the Shadow Foreign
0:23:04 > 0:23:10Secretary saying, it's the right thing to think.Not only does it put
0:23:10 > 0:23:16the debate in a new existential one for the challenge to the government
0:23:16 > 0:23:20in the house in a real way, then Tory rebels must think, what do I do
0:23:20 > 0:23:24now, do I vote with the Labour Party in favour of a customs union, but I
0:23:24 > 0:23:28could bring down the government? They must decide whether they are a
0:23:28 > 0:23:33Remainer before they are a Tory.I think many will decide they are a
0:23:33 > 0:23:37Tory before they are a Remainer. If Corbyn does that, the other domestic
0:23:37 > 0:23:42thing to think about is he crushes the Liberal Democrats, which is a
0:23:42 > 0:23:44long-term Labour Party aim and with which I don't entirely lack
0:23:44 > 0:23:52sympathy.He crushes them because? They have been the pro-European
0:23:52 > 0:23:56party but if Labour is pro-European and laugh and has the potential of
0:23:56 > 0:24:00getting into government, they hoover up lots of those Lib Dem votes. The
0:24:00 > 0:24:04Lib Dems have been fishing for a long time in the politics of the
0:24:04 > 0:24:09left-wing, so if Labour is both and pro-EU...They must watch what
0:24:09 > 0:24:14happens on Monday. They do not have an opportunity, they are not in the
0:24:14 > 0:24:21equation. I think that Corbyn can really change the course of this
0:24:21 > 0:24:29debate. The question is whether he has the stomach to do it.You ask
0:24:29 > 0:24:32what is the Lib Dem possibilities, I
0:24:32 > 0:24:38think constructive dispersal. LAUGHTERI am coming up with more
0:24:38 > 0:24:44terms!More vocab.It does not matter what happens to the Lib Dems.
0:24:44 > 0:24:49It matters that Europe is going forward. There is the budget but
0:24:49 > 0:24:56also this Emmanuel Macron idea and phenomenon. For me, British policy,
0:24:56 > 0:25:01there is no leader, there is no Macron, while Europe has this Macron
0:25:01 > 0:25:07who wants to create several state Europe.If you are right and things
0:25:07 > 0:25:12are so unlikely to work out in a dialogue with the EU, which may be
0:25:12 > 0:25:15the case, then all the more do we need to look to our relationships
0:25:15 > 0:25:19with the rest of the world and build trade deals with them. Like it or
0:25:19 > 0:25:25not, we are leaving the EU. We must accept that reality.With no
0:25:25 > 0:25:32strings?!We must close, I'm sorry to all of you. Thank you for coming
0:25:32 > 0:25:35in.
0:25:35 > 0:25:37That's all we have time for this week -
0:25:37 > 0:25:40do join us again next week same time same place.But for now,
0:25:40 > 0:25:42thank you for watching and goodbye