:00:08. > :00:18.Does Scotland's SNP whirlwind blow away any hopes Wales has from
:00:18. > :00:25.
:00:25. > :00:32.getting more money from the UK Good evening. West -- when the SNP
:00:32. > :00:35.secured a majority of the seats in May's collection, it sent
:00:35. > :00:40.shockwaves across the UK. The election process had been set-up
:00:40. > :00:44.with the idea that no one party would win half the seats that holy
:00:44. > :00:48.writ. How did the nationalists secure the victory and what will it
:00:48. > :00:52.mean for the devolved government in Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast?
:00:52. > :01:02.What the result in Scotland make it more difficult for Wales to receive
:01:02. > :01:08.
:01:08. > :01:14.funding from Westminster? Brian A majority SNP government, it was
:01:14. > :01:23.never supposed to happen. Scottish Parliament would kill the
:01:23. > :01:26.SNP. I am delighted to confirm that I will be seeking re-election by
:01:26. > :01:32.the Scottish Parliament as the First Minister of Scotland.
:01:32. > :01:36.SNP's victory in 2007, which saw them have one more at best -- MSP
:01:36. > :01:40.elected than Labour shocked many. They ruled as a minority
:01:40. > :01:44.administration for four years until May this year. What would happen
:01:44. > :01:50.then was a political earthquake as the SNP reached a majority in the
:01:50. > :01:54.parliament. It was an outstanding result. It was not expected by most
:01:54. > :01:59.of the academics observing the election. I do not think it was
:01:59. > :02:03.expected by the SNP either. The electoral system was designed to
:02:03. > :02:07.prevent any party getting an overall majority so it was
:02:07. > :02:12.surprising. It has changed the dynamics of Scottish politics and
:02:12. > :02:16.of Scotland's relationship with the UK government. Alex Salmond went
:02:16. > :02:21.into the election hugely behind Labour in the polls put Labour's
:02:21. > :02:26.lead crumbled. It was put down to poor leadership and a bad campaign.
:02:26. > :02:31.The parlour - a party's parliamentary leader was cornered
:02:31. > :02:37.in a fast-food outlet by protesters in what was a low point for Labour.
:02:37. > :02:44.All three of the Unionist Party, Labour, Conservatives and Lib Dems
:02:44. > :02:49.performed badly. It was a terrible result. We did not see it coming.
:02:49. > :02:53.They are in the midst of an internal event about why we did not
:02:53. > :02:58.do so well. We have looked to the Welsh Tories to see how we can
:02:58. > :03:02.learn lessons. For us, we were dealing with the consequences from
:03:02. > :03:05.the coalition at Westminster but now we are moving forward. Alex
:03:05. > :03:09.Salmond and its nationalist MPs take the reins of the Scottish
:03:09. > :03:13.Parliament just as it is about to get greater control over taxation
:03:13. > :03:17.to make it more accountable. The Scottish bill gives ministers in
:03:18. > :03:22.Edinburgh and extra �12 billion worth of financial powers. For the
:03:22. > :03:26.Unionist parties, Labour, the Conservatives and the Liberal
:03:26. > :03:29.Democrats, it means a transfer of responsibilities from Westminster
:03:29. > :03:35.to Holyrood but for the Scottish government, it does not go far
:03:35. > :03:40.enough. The SNP wants to establish a degree of hostility with the
:03:40. > :03:44.partnership that is the United Kingdom, so their default position
:03:44. > :03:47.but that is never enough. Scottish government immediately
:03:47. > :03:52.called for UK ministers to move further and faster, including
:03:52. > :03:57.around them to borrow and take corporation tax. The nationalists
:03:57. > :04:01.will always take whatever they can get because that has been the
:04:01. > :04:05.strategy. It is gradualism. More powers, more powers, more powers
:04:05. > :04:10.but it is never enough. It is how the opposition parties combat that.
:04:10. > :04:14.Even if they do not get to independence, I think in five
:04:14. > :04:19.years' time, Alex Salmond will be able to say, I have achieved
:04:19. > :04:22.significant extra powers for Scotland. Scotland does very well
:04:22. > :04:29.out of the Barnett formula which is how money is allocated across the
:04:29. > :04:34.UK. A report found Wales was short- changed by �300 million from the
:04:34. > :04:39.system. That is only one side of the equation. You have to look at
:04:39. > :04:48.the input side, not only be out but which comes from the UK Treasury to
:04:48. > :04:54.Scotland. Scotland put some more, more than its share, post -- most -
:04:54. > :04:58.- per head of population. All credit to the Welsh government, I
:04:58. > :05:04.hope they are successful and prosecuting their own arguments,
:05:04. > :05:07.providing it is no detriment to the Scottish position. We have a
:05:07. > :05:11.administrations of different political colours in the four
:05:11. > :05:16.capitals, the nationalists in power in Edinburgh, Labour going it alone
:05:16. > :05:22.in Cardiff, the Liberal Democrats and Conservatives in London and a
:05:22. > :05:26.mix of all the parties in Belfast. What does that mean for relations
:05:26. > :05:30.between the administrations in the future? So Gotland maintains it
:05:30. > :05:40.will work closely with the Welsh government where there is common
:05:40. > :05:41.
:05:41. > :05:45.ground -- Scotland. High we will continue to press the Treasury and
:05:45. > :05:50.I think there is a common agenda that we can share. One thing is
:05:50. > :05:54.certain, the SNP will use its majority to ask voters in a
:05:54. > :06:00.referendum whether they want independence, somewhere near the
:06:00. > :06:03.end of the five-year parliamentary session. I think one thing you
:06:03. > :06:09.should learn is never underestimate Alex Salmond. No one thought he
:06:09. > :06:12.would have an outright majority, so to say he has no chance of winning
:06:12. > :06:15.any independence referendum, would be to write him off. All the
:06:15. > :06:20.opinion polls show people like devolution. They want more power
:06:20. > :06:24.for the Scottish Parliament but they do not want independence. The
:06:24. > :06:29.SNP have five years in government to work the system to put in place
:06:29. > :06:35.what they call the conditions for a Yes vote to have a yes vote.
:06:35. > :06:38.four years ago, Alex Salmond put his -- took his place next to the
:06:38. > :06:42.Queen as the newly elected First Minister of Scotland at the opening
:06:43. > :06:47.of the Scottish Parliament. When he will take his seat tomorrow, he
:06:47. > :06:52.will do so as the leader of a majority government. A lot has
:06:52. > :06:58.changed since 2007. Four so, what does the SNP's
:06:58. > :07:04.success for the Welsh government's hopes for fiscal reform? I spoke to
:07:04. > :07:11.the Finance Minister Jane Hutt. Plaid Cymru says Wales was in the
:07:11. > :07:14.slow lane now, is that true? came through the selection with a
:07:14. > :07:18.very strong mandate for our programme of government. Standing
:07:18. > :07:23.up for Wales was the message and that means sorting out the fairer
:07:23. > :07:28.funding deal that we need from the UK government. That is why the
:07:28. > :07:31.First Minister has led on this. He made a statement in the last week
:07:31. > :07:36.or so and that was well received across the chamber. We have a
:07:36. > :07:40.debate on Tuesday which clearly defines the way forward, a very
:07:40. > :07:45.strong message. Let's hear also from the UK government, what they
:07:45. > :07:51.will offer us. Some criticised Carwyn Jones in terms of what he
:07:51. > :07:55.told the UK government he wanted, things like stamp duty devolved and
:07:55. > :08:00.that being rather timid. Why doesn't the UK government want
:08:00. > :08:05.corporation tax devolve? What we all know is we need the fair
:08:05. > :08:10.funding deal. We need to implement that floor, to stop the convergence
:08:10. > :08:16.and Winnie the reform of Barnet. Everyone in the assembly recognises
:08:16. > :08:21.that. Unless we deal with that underfunding, that 300 million that
:08:21. > :08:27.was identified and analysed, that has to be the first step. That was
:08:27. > :08:31.said very clearly in the report. The First Minister said, we need to
:08:31. > :08:34.be on a level playing field with the rest of the UK and that is what
:08:35. > :08:40.we discussed when the finance ministers and the first ministers
:08:40. > :08:43.came together. We need a level playing field. The reform of the
:08:43. > :08:47.Barnett formula which is currently the way the devolved nations get
:08:47. > :08:52.their funding worked out, the money from the UK Treasury, that remains
:08:52. > :08:56.the priority of the Welsh government? The priority is to
:08:56. > :09:03.implement the funding for the Holtham floor which prevents
:09:03. > :09:08.convergence. That is part of the reform of Barnet. Just let me
:09:09. > :09:14.clarify, what you are going for now is the Barnet floor which prevents
:09:14. > :09:18.too much of a gap emerging between what Wales gets in funding compared
:09:18. > :09:23.to regions in England? It is that that you're going for, rather than
:09:23. > :09:31.complete reform of Barnet in terms of a needs based for Miller?
:09:32. > :09:37.needs based for Miller clearly follows on the -- formula. It is
:09:37. > :09:41.very important that we recognise that Gerry Holtham, recognised
:09:41. > :09:47.internationally, he recognised there is a way of halting the
:09:47. > :09:56.underfunding of Wales. It is a very simple thing the UK government
:09:56. > :10:01.could do to commence further funding. Scotland is opposed to the
:10:01. > :10:05.reform of the Barnett Formula wholesale and I wonder where the
:10:05. > :10:11.think the recent success of the SNP makes it more difficult for the
:10:11. > :10:14.Welsh government to get its voice heard? We have very common cause
:10:14. > :10:19.across the devolved administrations. We worked together, the first
:10:19. > :10:23.ministers, the finance ministers, there are many areas where have
:10:23. > :10:28.common cause. Let's just look at the common cause that we have. We
:10:29. > :10:34.have to ensure that we are suspected -- respected, in terms of
:10:34. > :10:39.our responsibilities... I have to press you on this. Scotland does
:10:39. > :10:42.not want to see reform of the Barnett formula. You have just said
:10:43. > :10:47.that is your priority are awash government, given the political
:10:47. > :10:51.context, the rip roaring success of the SNP in recent elections, the
:10:51. > :10:55.fact that there will be an independence referendum, the UK
:10:56. > :11:00.government will not want to aggravate Scottish voters, surely?
:11:00. > :11:05.I think if the people of Wales knew what they were doing on May 5th.
:11:05. > :11:10.They voted for Welsh Labour to stand up for them. Fairer funding
:11:10. > :11:15.was at the forefront. And in fact, what is important is we have got
:11:15. > :11:25.consensus across all the political parties... A full give me but that
:11:25. > :11:27.
:11:27. > :11:31.is not what I am asking you. have to start the process of. That
:11:31. > :11:36.is what we take to the UK government. The First Minister is
:11:36. > :11:41.meeting the Chancellor on Wednesday. But does what happened in Scotland
:11:41. > :11:45.make it more difficult for you to get the message across? The point
:11:45. > :11:50.about our relationship with Scotland and what Scotland is
:11:50. > :11:55.calling for an secure in, they have got the Scotland Act, we are going
:11:55. > :12:00.through what the UK government has described as a Carmen like process.
:12:00. > :12:04.We have already had the Holtham Commission. There are areas where
:12:04. > :12:09.we stand up for Wales and that is the message that comes through. Not
:12:09. > :12:13.just from the Welsh government, it comes from every political party,
:12:13. > :12:18.Plaid Cymru, the Welsh Conservatives and Welsh Liberal
:12:18. > :12:22.Democrats are well behind the Welsh government. What are your hopes for
:12:22. > :12:28.a Calman style Commission, Calman being the commission taken in
:12:28. > :12:32.Scotland looking at how or fiscal devolution could be addressed? What
:12:32. > :12:37.are your hopes, very briefly? Clearly, the Financial Statement
:12:37. > :12:42.for reform was not just about the Holtham floor and by no reform, it
:12:42. > :12:46.was about securing borrowing powers and ensuring that we have the right
:12:46. > :12:52.to raise capital, to ensure that we can invest in our schools,
:12:52. > :12:57.hospitals, roads and the infrastructure of Wales. Thank you.
:12:57. > :13:00.I'm joined now by Alex Salmond's biographer, David Torrance, Richard
:13:00. > :13:06.Wyn Jones, director of the Wells Government's Centre at Cardiff
:13:06. > :13:10.University, and the former Welsh Secretary Rod Richards. Thank you
:13:10. > :13:15.for joining us. Two developments in Scotland make it harder for the
:13:15. > :13:22.Welsh government is successfully make its case on replacing Barnett
:13:22. > :13:28.with a Leeds-based for Miller? course they do. I am flabbergasted
:13:28. > :13:32.Jane could not give a straight answer. Rhodri Morgan could not get
:13:32. > :13:41.it reviewed because there was a Scottish Prime Minister and a
:13:41. > :13:45.Scottish Chancellor. She was quitting the Holtham report. Reform
:13:45. > :13:48.might mean Wales going up and Scotland coming down a lot in a
:13:49. > :13:52.period in which we are running up to a Scottish referendum on
:13:52. > :13:56.independence. Of course, it is not realistic politics that the UK
:13:56. > :14:01.government is going to do a full- scale reform of Barnet in the run-
:14:01. > :14:11.up to a Scottish referendum. I cannot imagine that Ed Miliband
:14:11. > :14:12.
:14:12. > :14:17.We heard from Bruce Crawford suggesting that Scotland maibgdz a
:14:17. > :14:20.net contribution so it has nothing to apologise for even if it is
:14:20. > :14:25.overfunded, in some views bit Barnett formula. How strong is that
:14:25. > :14:29.argument, do you think? He didn't actually say what figures he was
:14:29. > :14:33.using there. One thing is certain, that the wash Government needs to
:14:34. > :14:39.be alert or even wake up to the fact that once you move to a needs-
:14:39. > :14:44.based formula for Barnet, then the Treasury will put onto the table
:14:44. > :14:53.other needs-based financing of Wales, notably the Welfare State.
:14:53. > :14:59.Wales is a net beneficiary of some �9 billion here. That �9 billion
:14:59. > :15:04.dwarfs the00 million this a needs- based formula would bring. There
:15:04. > :15:08.are great dangers here in going into negotiation was the Treasury.
:15:08. > :15:13.Let's bring David Torrance in. To what extent is there a common
:15:13. > :15:18.agenda between Scotland and Wales now? It's largely window dressing.
:15:18. > :15:21.I was at the First Minister's residence a few weeks ago, when he
:15:21. > :15:25.was with Carwyn Jones and Peter Robinson. They do a happy cross-
:15:25. > :15:29.party show of unity. The only thing that really unifies them is an
:15:29. > :15:34.attack on the Treasury, if you like, and urging the UK Chancellor to go
:15:34. > :15:38.for Plan B on the economy. On everything else there's clearly
:15:38. > :15:44.tension, on corporation tax. Northern Ireland who wants to bring
:15:44. > :15:49.their arrangements into line with the Republic of Ireland, doesn't
:15:49. > :15:51.want Scotland to get it. The SNP have had a long standing
:15:51. > :15:56.Parliamentary association at Westminster with Plaid Cymru. They
:15:56. > :16:02.don't agree on all that much. terms of attitudes, political add
:16:02. > :16:05.tueds in Wales, the idea, the argument that we have heard on
:16:05. > :16:10.different issues, well if Scotland's got it, Wales should
:16:10. > :16:14.have it too. To what extent does that view need reworking now if
:16:14. > :16:18.what's good for Scotland won't necessarily be good for Wales?
:16:18. > :16:24.You're right. That has been the tendency in Welsh politics in
:16:24. > :16:29.recent years. If you read baeb's election manifesto it's fairly
:16:29. > :16:32.clear that they wanted a quiet period after the referendum. They
:16:32. > :16:35.want -- didn't want anything to make Welsh Labour MPs nervous.
:16:35. > :16:39.Because of this amazing result in Scotland, all of these kinds of
:16:39. > :16:43.questions are now on the table. You feel the Welsh Government are
:16:43. > :16:47.trying to respond to all of these initiatives, without any clear
:16:47. > :16:51.sense of where they're trying to go, what their end point, what the
:16:51. > :16:55.desired end game is here. Surely none of these issues should be on
:16:55. > :17:00.the table as far as the Welsh Government is concerned at all.
:17:00. > :17:05.Bearing in mind the yes campaign for the referendum, which was
:17:05. > :17:09.supposedly a tideying up exercise. Now we're taking about borrowing
:17:09. > :17:15.powers, talking about devolving planning powers or energy powers,
:17:15. > :17:20.all the rest of it. None of it does the Welsh Government have any
:17:20. > :17:24.mandate whatsoever, bearing in mind the solemn undertakings they gave
:17:25. > :17:28.in the referendum. It's not simply that the Scottish result has
:17:28. > :17:33.changed the equation, but also recall that the present UK
:17:33. > :17:39.Government has, as part of its coalition agreement, a plan to
:17:39. > :17:43.establish a Calman-like commission in Wales. That was announced before
:17:43. > :17:48.the referendum. It was clear for the yes campaign... You know what,
:17:48. > :17:52.I'm going to bring in David for a final word. I'm not going to ask
:17:52. > :17:56.you to referee that one. Is it inevitable now that the plan
:17:56. > :18:00.outlined by Alex Salmond will keep constitutional issues nearly at the
:18:00. > :18:04.top of the political agenda for the devolves nations around the UK,
:18:04. > :18:07.does it automatically spill over? Undoubtedly. The constitutional
:18:07. > :18:12.question has dominated Scottish politics for the last 40 years.
:18:12. > :18:15.It's going to carry on dominating. Of course the plan for independent,
:18:15. > :18:20.-- independence, though the definition of that is open to
:18:20. > :18:24.question, has ramifications for the United Kingdom. So what does the
:18:24. > :18:27.SNP actually mean by independent? They're talking about
:18:27. > :18:32.reconstituting the United Kingdom, not about splitting Scotland away
:18:32. > :18:37.from it. If there's a two question referendum, it's difficult to see
:18:37. > :18:41.how Alex Salmond will lose. He will, at least, get substantially more
:18:41. > :18:46.powers. On that point, if Scotland were to get full fiscal economy,
:18:46. > :18:51.would that make the case for the replacement of the Barnett formula
:18:51. > :18:57.with something ease tkwror argue, if Scotland is out of the equation?
:18:57. > :19:00.Undoubtedly. The Welsh Government's best bet is trying to pull Wales
:19:00. > :19:05.from Scotland in terms of how territorial funding works around
:19:05. > :19:09.the UK. Clearly there isn't going to be a full scale review of Barnet.
:19:09. > :19:17.Everybody knows that in their hearts. Therefore decoupling is the
:19:17. > :19:21.only way forward. Do you agree? Absolutely. I got the implegs that
:19:21. > :19:27.Jane Heartly is somewhat out of her debt in not recognising what
:19:27. > :19:30.Richard says that you have to decouple Wales. Thank you very much
:19:31. > :19:34.for joining us. There have been cross-wires again between London
:19:34. > :19:38.and Cardiff Bay, this time over whether or not the Welsh Government
:19:38. > :19:43.has decided to adopt enterprise zones. Yesterday the Welsh
:19:43. > :19:48.secretary told MPs that the First Minister had adopted the policy. In
:19:48. > :19:51.fact, Carwyn Jones had only told AMs he was examining the issue. A
:19:51. > :19:56.minor misunderstanding perhaps. But taken against the back drop of
:19:56. > :20:01.accusations of slaps in the face and untruths, is it more evidence
:20:01. > :20:05.of a deteriorating relationship. I asked Vaughan Gething and Guto Bebb
:20:05. > :20:09.what they made of it. It is a concern. I think the issue in terms
:20:09. > :20:13.of enterprise zones was highlighted because of a question I asked in
:20:13. > :20:18.Parliament. Frankly, I appreciate fully that in order to get economic
:20:18. > :20:22.developments going in a Welsh context, we need to make sure that
:20:22. > :20:27.Westminster and Cardiff work in tandem. The fact there is a
:20:27. > :20:32.misunderstanding of this nature is concerning. In terms of the respect
:20:32. > :20:35.agenda, I see no evidence that not in place. It is disappointing that
:20:35. > :20:41.two ministers, from what I gather, have decided not to give evidence
:20:41. > :20:44.to a Welsh Select Committee inquiry into inward investment. It is to be
:20:45. > :20:50.regretted. Nobody would claim that economic development is an issue
:20:50. > :20:54.which is fully devolves. Let me put that to Vaughan Gething. Is there a
:20:54. > :20:58.problem in Cardiff Bay in terms of how the relationship is working
:20:58. > :21:04.with London? I don't think. So these things happen. But the
:21:04. > :21:08.reality is that the Assembly is its own body. It has its own priorities.
:21:08. > :21:12.You have two different governments with different values. There's a
:21:12. > :21:16.Labour Government in Cardiff Bay. You wouldn't expect us to get on
:21:16. > :21:20.and agree with everything that the UK right-wing doe ligs is doing.
:21:20. > :21:27.Enterprise zones are an example where we don't want to follow
:21:27. > :21:33.English policy. We're looking at it to see what best meets the people
:21:33. > :21:36.of Wales. We'll continue to act in a way to support our manifesto.
:21:36. > :21:41.What about some of the language used in recent weeks, a slap in the
:21:42. > :21:44.face to the people of Wales, for example. That's extremely strong
:21:44. > :21:47.language from the First Minister about the behaviour of the
:21:47. > :21:51.Government in London. Yes, I don't make any apologies for that. When
:21:51. > :21:55.you look at that particular issue, you have the same party in Wales
:21:55. > :21:58.saying it's the Assembly's fault. Whilst they know perfectly well it
:21:58. > :22:04.is the UK's Government responsibility. This is windfarms.
:22:04. > :22:11.Yes. The UK recently confirmed they wouldn't devolve responsibility for
:22:11. > :22:17.that. The latest statement made clear to ignore it in the
:22:17. > :22:20.Assembly's policy. Where you have disagreement declare it. That's
:22:20. > :22:25.what you expect of honest politician. You have to be up front
:22:26. > :22:32.about what awe gree on and don't agree on. Is this healthy discourse
:22:32. > :22:36.or is it a deeper problem? appears to me that the Labour
:22:36. > :22:42.Government in Cardiff is intent on not having any discuss --
:22:42. > :22:49.discussion whatsoever. Leighton Andrews will be giving a
:22:49. > :22:53.speech. You have to compare that was members in Plaid Cymru who can
:22:53. > :22:56.give evidence. I think they understood that cross-border
:22:56. > :23:00.cooperation is beneficial to the people of Wales. Thank you both
:23:00. > :23:05.very much for talking to us. A report into the circumstances
:23:05. > :23:09.which led to two Liberal Democrat AMs being disqualified from the
:23:09. > :23:12.Assembly is in the final stages. It will be circulated to AMs before
:23:12. > :23:16.they vote on whether Aled Roberts and John Dixon can take their seats
:23:16. > :23:19.after a long period in limbo. Whatever the fate of the two, it
:23:19. > :23:27.seems others too face searching questions about their role in this
:23:27. > :23:30.saga. The case of the two Liberal
:23:30. > :23:36.Democrat Assmebly Members. Six weeks on, and the file is still
:23:36. > :23:39.open. Aled Roberts and John Dixon were disqualified less than a
:23:39. > :23:44.fortnight after being elected as regional Assmebly Members. They
:23:44. > :23:48.should have resigned from positions in public bodies before signing
:23:48. > :23:54.their nomination papers as candidates, but failed to do so.
:23:54. > :23:57.The party too has taken some responsibility. We've clearly made
:23:57. > :24:03.mistakes which we shouldn't have made. We should have been more up
:24:03. > :24:07.front in telling our candidates what is required of them. What was
:24:08. > :24:11.described firblly as a technicality ended up sparking a police
:24:11. > :24:15.investigation. Last week the Crown Prosecution Service announced that
:24:15. > :24:21.neither man would be prosecuted. One investigation closed then, but
:24:21. > :24:24.another one is still ongoing. Once it was clear there would be no
:24:24. > :24:30.criminal prosecution, the Assembly standards commissioner resumed his
:24:30. > :24:38.review of the evidence. That's due to report any day in time for an
:24:38. > :24:43.Assembly vote by the middle of next week. Views on this have ebbed and
:24:43. > :24:49.flowed over the past weeks. Now all parties say they will wait to see
:24:49. > :24:54.the report's contents before making their mind on how to vote.
:24:54. > :24:58.going to be putting my feelings, emotions and sympathies aside and
:24:58. > :25:02.will look closely at the report on Monday. I will make sure my
:25:02. > :25:06.colleagues do as well, so that the decision made on Wednesday is not
:25:06. > :25:10.based on personal views, it's a dispassionate view based on the
:25:10. > :25:15.evidence we've got. Is it right to bring them back? If they are
:25:15. > :25:19.brought back, would there be consequences of the Assembly. The
:25:19. > :25:25.fourth Assembly has to remain. not just the two Lib Dems who have
:25:25. > :25:30.had to face up to their mistakes. Add elRoberts' case for readmission
:25:30. > :25:34.to the reAssembly may have been strengthened that some key
:25:34. > :25:39.documents giving guidance to candidates were outs of date.
:25:39. > :25:46.They've apologised and said they've reviewed their processes. For a
:25:46. > :25:50.body charged with setting the starred and for -- standards for
:25:50. > :25:54.elections and for the democratic process, it's embarrassing at the
:25:54. > :25:59.very least. Clearly once this is settled one way or another, I think
:25:59. > :26:03.the Electoral Commission will have to adre those matters and they will
:26:03. > :26:09.have to look at their own procedures and how they advise
:26:09. > :26:13.candidates to ensure that this doesn't happen again. If Aled
:26:13. > :26:17.Roberts and John Dixon aren't re- admitting two other candidates will
:26:17. > :26:22.take the seats. Whatever happens, everyone involved will be relieved
:26:22. > :26:26.when the decision is made and the file finally closed.
:26:26. > :26:30.I'm joined now by the Western Mail Senedd correspondent Matt Withers.
:26:31. > :26:34.Welcome. What's the significance of this statement from the Electoral
:26:34. > :26:37.Commission? It's particularly significant in the case of Aled
:26:37. > :26:42.Roberts. They gave him the wrong information. He sought out the
:26:42. > :26:45.information to find out he was in a legally safe position. Clearly, he
:26:45. > :26:49.was given the wrong information. What the Electoral Commission was
:26:49. > :26:53.saying last week was yes, the wrong information was given, but it's the
:26:53. > :26:57.responsibility of the chand date to check the rules. He did. He checked
:26:57. > :27:01.with them. It's the equivalent of the local authority putting up the
:27:01. > :27:07.wrong speed limit and then clocking somebody and saying it was their
:27:08. > :27:13.fault for not looking. Is the job to ensure they are compliant, which
:27:14. > :27:17.they didn't do? I'm not sure where else specifically in the case of
:27:17. > :27:20.Aled Roberts he could have gone over and above the Electoral
:27:20. > :27:24.Commission. Most people would believe that is the ultimate
:27:24. > :27:33.authority in this air ya. Wow expect the correct information.
:27:33. > :27:39.terms of what happens now, AMs are awaiting a report. How do you think
:27:39. > :27:44.that will affect how people decide to vote later in the week? I think
:27:44. > :27:48.it largely does, specifically in the case of the Labour AMs, they're
:27:48. > :27:53.going to decide this because of the size. If you speak to them off the
:27:53. > :27:59.record they're increasingly saying they will make a decision based on
:27:59. > :28:03.the Garrard Elias report. I get the feeling they're hoping for a report
:28:03. > :28:08.which states that these two men did wrong and that they can use that to
:28:08. > :28:15.go in and vote against returns to the Assembly. I don't expect it to
:28:15. > :28:19.be that unambiguous. We will see them split along party lines as to
:28:20. > :28:23.how they personally feel. Given what you've said about the details
:28:23. > :28:29.of Aled Roberts' case, is it conceivable that one of the men
:28:29. > :28:34.could be reinstated and the other not? It's not out of the question.
:28:34. > :28:43.There's more sympathy for the Aled Roberts. A lot of people say John
:28:43. > :28:47.Dixon, essentially he didn't check the paper work correctly. 9 there's
:28:47. > :28:53.less sympathy for him as somebody who has made an error as opposed to
:28:53. > :28:58.Aled Roberts who has been guided towards an error. How will it go
:28:58. > :29:02.next week? If I were a betting man, these two men shouldn't start
:29:02. > :29:06.booking their trains to Cardiff Bay quite yet. You think that is
:29:07. > :29:10.because, minds have been made up, irrespective of what people are
:29:10. > :29:14.saying about the report? It's different when the Conservatives
:29:14. > :29:18.and Plaid Cymru, who are divided on this, I get the impression there