:01:02. > :01:12.Lower growth, higher borrowing a longer period of austerity. What
:01:12. > :01:14.
:01:14. > :01:21.happened to the light at the end of the tunnel? This is Dragon's Eye.
:01:22. > :01:25.Fie. Good evening. The Chancellor George Osborne has some depressing
:01:25. > :01:28.news when he made his Autumn Statement on Tuesday, he said the
:01:28. > :01:32.economy will recover more slowly than he anticipate and the
:01:32. > :01:36.Government will have to borrow more and take longer to cut the deficit.
:01:36. > :01:39.The news that public sector pay rises will be capped at 1% will
:01:39. > :01:43.have done nothing to repair relations with the unions, he made
:01:43. > :01:46.that announcement the day before yesterday's strike and they will
:01:46. > :01:51.have been far from happy with the announcement the Government is
:01:51. > :01:56.looking to move away from UK-wide pay negotiations for teachers,
:01:56. > :02:06.nurses and other public sector worker to regional deals. The First
:02:06. > :02:06.
:02:07. > :02:11.Minister has reacted angrily to the plans P -- plans. This is a
:02:11. > :02:18.significant step towards creating a more balances economy in regions of
:02:18. > :02:23.our country, that does not squeeze out the private sector. What they
:02:23. > :02:26.will do is say what is the cost of living in a particular place, we
:02:26. > :02:30.will pay you less than someone living somewhere else, that can't
:02:30. > :02:34.be right. It wasn't one of the main headlines from the Chancellor's
:02:34. > :02:38.speech, but the mere mention of moving away from UK-wide pay
:02:38. > :02:43.negotiations for key public sector workers, prompts strong reactions.
:02:43. > :02:48.Opponent says for Welsh worker, it is only mean a worse deal. --
:02:48. > :02:52.workers. I have spoken the trade union officials following the
:02:52. > :02:56.Autumn Statement, to gauge their public opinion. If they weren't
:02:56. > :02:58.angry enough about the pensions they will be livid about this. This
:02:59. > :03:05.will be a major campaign t consequences will be significant if
:03:05. > :03:08.we see this sort of policy, because it will entrench that regional and
:03:08. > :03:14.individual wealth divide which exists. We have nationally
:03:14. > :03:20.negotiated pay deals, which look at the clinical and the performance
:03:20. > :03:27.levels of our staff within the public sector, I am talking about
:03:27. > :03:32.the NHS predominantly. I do not accept we should have regional pay
:03:32. > :03:34.for jobs. But does the current UK structure for nurses, teacher and
:03:34. > :03:40.other public sector staff stifle the growth of the private sector?
:03:40. > :03:44.That has been argued by a liberal think-tank. There is an argument
:03:45. > :03:49.that actually it is at the moment having high pay in the public
:03:49. > :03:56.sector is putting the private sector at a disadvantage in
:03:56. > :04:00.competing for skilled workers. So I think there is a win-win both for
:04:00. > :04:03.the public services in terms of getting more for your money, but
:04:04. > :04:07.also for the private sector as well. It is not about cutting the public
:04:07. > :04:10.sector wage bill, say the Welsh Conservatives. I think this is
:04:10. > :04:14.about looking at the different regions of the UK, seeing how they
:04:14. > :04:19.can deal with this situation better, it is also about making sure that
:04:19. > :04:23.we grow the private sector, I think all partys in Wales accept that the
:04:23. > :04:26.private sector has been too small and we want to make sure that over
:04:26. > :04:30.time that we address that balance and get more people working in the
:04:30. > :04:33.private sector, a better balance with the public sector. It was a UK
:04:33. > :04:39.Labour Government which last looked at introducing regional pay. This
:04:39. > :04:45.is not new. I mean this was something that Gordon Brown
:04:45. > :04:51.suggested going back to 2006. In fact, the Ministry of Justice and
:04:51. > :04:56.the courts service have been doing this since 2007, so there is, this
:04:56. > :05:00.is being announced and some people are portraying it as being a very
:05:00. > :05:05.major change. It is an acceleration of something that is already
:05:05. > :05:08.happening. But the First Minister has said he is dead against it.
:05:08. > :05:11.Well, ultimately, we may have to look at taking over pay and
:05:11. > :05:16.conditions here in Wales. It is not as easy as it sounds. There are
:05:16. > :05:20.real issues in terms of how that is done. But if we are forced into
:05:20. > :05:24.that situation, better that than to have people's pay cut by UK
:05:24. > :05:29.Government in London. It is not the first time it has been talked about
:05:29. > :05:32.and the opposition to it remains resolute. But in view of the wider
:05:32. > :05:40.economic picture, UK ministers maybe more determined this time in
:05:40. > :05:44.pushing for the break up of the UK public sector pay map. Well, I
:05:44. > :05:49.spoke to the Welsh secretary and asked her whether she accepted that
:05:49. > :05:53.regional pay would inevitably mean Welsh public sector workers being
:05:53. > :05:56.paid less than colleagues in the south-east of England for doing the
:05:56. > :06:00.same job? Think what you are doing is jumping the gun. What the
:06:00. > :06:05.Chancellor has asked is the independent -- independent Pay
:06:05. > :06:10.Review Bodys to look and see how pay can be responsive to local
:06:10. > :06:15.conditions. I think that work will report in July 2012. Yes, that is
:06:15. > :06:20.eight months away, so that is not a very long time away, is it. I
:06:20. > :06:24.wonder whether in terms of its potential impact on Wales, that is
:06:24. > :06:28.something that concerns you, because it is possible, surely,
:06:28. > :06:34.that if the body does recommend some form of regional pay, that
:06:34. > :06:38.public sector workers in your constituency may even say see their
:06:38. > :06:42.pay rates go up, whereas plaque workers in Wales would say it go
:06:42. > :06:45.down when you compare the average pay rates for the two areas.
:06:45. > :06:48.think we need to see they are independent Pay Review Bodys that
:06:48. > :06:52.will be looking at that. I think we will need to see what their
:06:52. > :06:55.recommendations are, we need to see how local pay rates can be made
:06:56. > :07:00.more responsive. So that the private sector can come into areas
:07:00. > :07:04.which are dominated perhaps by the public sector. So it may be helpful
:07:04. > :07:07.in bringing in private sector jobs in allowing them to compete in a
:07:07. > :07:11.market where the public sector is dominating the market. I wonder
:07:11. > :07:15.what your reaction is to the First Minister's kphebs on this. He said
:07:15. > :07:19.if regional pay is introduced he would look to ask for pay and
:07:19. > :07:22.conditions in the public sector to be devolved. Well in the autumn
:07:22. > :07:26.financial statement you will see there is also a paragraph in there
:07:27. > :07:30.about looking at the departments, and looking whether they, there is
:07:30. > :07:34.an element of regional pay that can be looked at as fars departments
:07:35. > :07:38.are concerned. It does say in there that secretarys of state will be
:07:38. > :07:41.responsible for deciding whether to implement those if they were
:07:41. > :07:45.recommendations that came forward, so there are interesting things on
:07:45. > :07:48.this patience but let us face it, we are in a time when we have been
:07:48. > :07:52.living above our means for a long time and everybody knows that. We
:07:52. > :07:56.are having to face up to one of the largest debts that any Government
:07:56. > :08:03.has inherited. We are having to pay down that debt, and we are having
:08:03. > :08:07.to deal with other external factors. On that point... The eurozone, the
:08:07. > :08:11.price of oil... On that point public sector workers feel they are
:08:11. > :08:16.unfairly having to bear the burden of trying to get the grips can some
:08:16. > :08:21.of the problems. The Chancellor said one the pay freeze ends,
:08:21. > :08:26.public sector pay rises will be capped at 1%. He has revealed he
:08:26. > :08:28.has bodies looking into the prospect of regional pay all this
:08:28. > :08:31.while the Government is in industrial dispute. Are they
:08:31. > :08:35.bearing an unfair share of the burden? We are not the only
:08:35. > :08:39.Government that has looked at local pay. The last Labour Government
:08:39. > :08:43.looked at local pay as well, so this is not something that is new.
:08:43. > :08:46.Look at the wider context of the public sector. So let us put that
:08:46. > :08:51.first of all in perspective. Secondly, as I say, we have been
:08:51. > :08:54.living above our means. Are public sector workers bearing an unfair
:08:54. > :08:57.share of the burden here? public sector at the moment, and
:08:58. > :09:01.even Labour politicians have said in Wales, the public sector is far
:09:01. > :09:06.too large in Wales. We need to look at ways of encouraging in the
:09:06. > :09:09.private sector, the private sector will be encourage kaurgeed in if it
:09:09. > :09:13.feels it can compete with public sector pay rates and come into
:09:13. > :09:17.areas where they are not in a high profile in Wales, but let me also
:09:17. > :09:20.go on to the pension, because we have looked tat forecast of the
:09:20. > :09:23.pensions and we brought in John Hutton, a former Labour minister to
:09:24. > :09:27.do the work on this. Our pensions need to be affordable, and the work
:09:27. > :09:31.we are putting in on pensions and the negotiations which are ongoing
:09:31. > :09:36.with the unions, is this Government's attempt to make sure
:09:36. > :09:41.that well valued, high valued civil servants, high valued public sector
:09:41. > :09:44.workers, have the opportunity to have a sustainable future as far as
:09:44. > :09:48.their pensions are concern, if pensions no longer become
:09:48. > :09:55.affordable, that is not a situation we can allow to continue. OK. Thank
:09:55. > :10:00.you for joining us. Let us hear Labour's take on that. The shadow
:10:00. > :10:05.chance lore Ed Balls is visiting Wales today. Bethan Powys caught up
:10:05. > :10:10.with him and asked him what he made of the idea of regional pay. There
:10:10. > :10:14.has always been flexibility in pay in the health service, there is
:10:14. > :10:17.London weightings but I think national Pay Review Bodys have
:10:17. > :10:22.serveded a important purpose, they have allowed flexibility, they have
:10:22. > :10:25.also kept control on cost and they have been fair. I think to be
:10:25. > :10:29.honest the Chancellor George Osborne was looking for ways to
:10:29. > :10:34.divert attention away from an economy not growing, broerg going
:10:34. > :10:38.up. Unemployment rising, I think he should be very careful indeed
:10:38. > :10:42.before he goes down this road. I think he will be throwing out the
:10:42. > :10:46.baby with the bath water. The last Labour Government mooted the same
:10:46. > :10:52.idea. What is the difference nowst There has always been flexibility
:10:52. > :10:58.in pay locally and regionally, you need that for different skills,
:10:58. > :11:02.there is agenda for change in the NHS. But they wanted to do it as
:11:02. > :11:07.the Chancellor wants to do it no When I was Secretary of State for
:11:07. > :11:11.schooling we talked about more what we could do, but you can do that,
:11:11. > :11:14.within a national frame works, within pay review body what George
:11:14. > :11:18.Osborne is talking about doing is scrapping the Pay Review Bodys,
:11:18. > :11:22.handing it over to different regions. My fear is you will end up
:11:22. > :11:26.with competition between regions, with inflation in pay, it would
:11:26. > :11:30.cost more and you would lose flexibility. So to have some
:11:30. > :11:37.variation, yes, but to go wholesale down this road, he needs to be
:11:37. > :11:40.really really careful. I think it could be risky. So no to that. In
:11:40. > :11:45.the report there was little comfort for George Osborne, you might argue,
:11:45. > :11:48.you would certainly argue, wouldn't it be fair to say there is not that
:11:48. > :11:51.much comfort fou you either, yes there are difficulties, yes there
:11:51. > :11:56.is difficulty with growth but that is not because of anything this
:11:56. > :12:00.Government is doing. It is not because they are cutting too fast
:12:00. > :12:03.and deep. George Osborne said it was the euro crisis causing the
:12:03. > :12:08.huge problems. The OBR said they were going to increase the estimate
:12:08. > :12:12.for growth in the euro area this year, as they downgraded the
:12:12. > :12:17.forecast for the UK. That is what unemployment has gone up, because
:12:17. > :12:22.confidence is down, domestic demand is down. We are not creating job,
:12:22. > :12:26.unemployment is up. They said, the OBR high inflation, that rise in
:12:26. > :12:30.VAT this year was very damaging too. I think when I look at the this
:12:30. > :12:34.report what they are saying is, if we are not careful we will have
:12:34. > :12:37.slower growth and higher borrowing for years to come, from the
:12:37. > :12:41.Chancellor who promised he would get borrowing down. They haven't
:12:41. > :12:44.come down the other side and said yes Government, we believe you
:12:44. > :12:48.cutting too fast, you are cutting too deep. It is not working, they
:12:49. > :12:55.haven't come to that conclusion which is no comfort for you either
:12:55. > :13:01.is it? The independent OBR have accomplished a report. In which
:13:01. > :13:05.they say growth down, unemployment up. Borrowing up, everyone of the
:13:05. > :13:09.things that George Osborne promised has not come truement. We can
:13:09. > :13:14.debate the detail, of the report. There are some economists who think
:13:14. > :13:18.they are pessimistic, we can argue about the alnay -- anal
:13:18. > :13:22.circumstances no economist agrees with everybody else. On the
:13:22. > :13:25.fundamentals did they revise up growth. No it is down. Did they say
:13:25. > :13:31.the growth plan is going to help the economy? No, it is not going to
:13:31. > :13:34.make a difference. What will it mean for Wales,? Disproportionally
:13:34. > :13:38.hit hard by public sector jobs going and unemployment rising as
:13:38. > :13:42.well. I think this is a pretty risky prospect for us To finish
:13:42. > :13:45.there was no business in the assembly yet yesterday because of
:13:45. > :13:48.the strike. Labour ministers stood on the picket line. They didn't
:13:48. > :13:54.come in to work. They weren't in the assembly. Was that the right
:13:54. > :13:58.thing to do? Devolution means people make difference choices.
:13:58. > :14:03.no? Wefrpblgts had Prime Minister's Questions where David Cameron stood,
:14:03. > :14:08.rattle and defensive as he attacked low paid public sector workers and
:14:08. > :14:15.called them irresponsible. He didn't strike a chord with anybody.
:14:15. > :14:21.May take that as a no? Well, I went to work. Ed Balls speaking to
:14:21. > :14:24.Wales is to get an extra �216 million in capital spending over
:14:24. > :14:28.the next three years as a result of announcements made by the
:14:28. > :14:31.Chancellor, George Osborne, in his Autumn Statement. Labour says it'll
:14:31. > :14:34.consult the Liberal Democrats on how that money should be spent as
:14:34. > :14:38.part of the deal between the parties to get the budget through.
:14:38. > :14:48.That deal also saw an agreement to spend an extra �20 million on some
:14:48. > :14:55.
:14:55. > :15:01.of Wales' poorest pupils next year. �14.5 billion, that's the Welsh
:15:01. > :15:04.Government's budget for next year. With only 30 of the 60 seats,
:15:04. > :15:08.Labour knew it had to get the support of another party to get its
:15:08. > :15:10.Budget through. The Opposition parties were trying to work out
:15:10. > :15:14.what concessions they could ring from the Welsh Government.
:15:14. > :15:17.Labour and the Liberal Democrats were thought to be close on their
:15:17. > :15:20.negotiation points, while Plaid appeared to be demanding more than
:15:20. > :15:24.ministers were willing to give. The Welsh Liberal Democrats agreed
:15:24. > :15:28.a deal that would see them support the Labour Budget in return for an
:15:28. > :15:31.extra �20 million going to the schools that he had kates the
:15:31. > :15:39.country's poorest children. They call it the pupil premium, one
:15:39. > :15:44.of the party's key policy areas. Observers say it is a big move from
:15:44. > :15:48.Labour. It is a big concession in that they have been rubbishing it
:15:49. > :15:55.in the chamber for months. Clearly, Plaid have latched on to the fact
:15:55. > :16:00.that this is Labour implementing a so-called con-dem policy and that
:16:00. > :16:06.makes it awkward. It is not as big as they would have to do if they
:16:06. > :16:09.brought Plaid Cymru in. Labour can be reasonably pleased with the deal.
:16:09. > :16:16.Opponents dismissed the deal. It is not a good deal for Wales,
:16:16. > :16:19.this is a one year addition to the free school meal entitled pupils.
:16:19. > :16:22.It doesn't address the economic issues or the skills issues in
:16:22. > :16:27.Wales. Labour have got to sit down and
:16:27. > :16:34.invent a new policy, invent a new structure to go and administer, it
:16:34. > :16:42.bunch of extra work for civil civil servants, half of to of that �20
:16:42. > :16:51.million will end up being gobbled One-third of all money spent on
:16:51. > :16:55.education gets gobbled up by red tape.. The deal does only cover
:16:55. > :16:58.this Budget, but the funding will continue over the next three years.
:16:58. > :17:03.Labour's backbenchers remained quiet, but observers say it has
:17:03. > :17:06.given the Lib Dems a victory in education policy. The minister
:17:06. > :17:10.responsible is behind the deal, despite previously ruling out any
:17:10. > :17:14.such pupil premium. On the record, he said what
:17:14. > :17:18.minister wouldn't want more money in their departments, budget, I
:17:18. > :17:21.don't know if privately he finds this difficult implementing the
:17:21. > :17:24.Liberal Democrat policy, but he himself is a former Liberal
:17:24. > :17:28.Democrat and you never forget your first love.
:17:28. > :17:35.Opponents believe it could help the Liberal Democrats in next year's
:17:36. > :17:39.council elections. Williams has always want to
:17:39. > :17:44.detoxify the Welsh Liberal Democrat brand. It is not a different party,
:17:44. > :17:49.it is the same party, but she is able to say and point to doing a
:17:49. > :17:52.deal with Labour in certain areas of Wales in the next election in
:17:52. > :17:59.May, and she will say, "Look, we did this deal with Labour, we are
:17:59. > :18:01.not as bad as you think." We have been a Welsh party. What this is
:18:01. > :18:05.about is the Welsh Liberal Democrats delivering on their
:18:05. > :18:08.manifesto priorities. At a UK level we have worked with the
:18:08. > :18:11.Conservatives to deliver the priorities and extra money for
:18:11. > :18:14.pensions. In Wales, we are working with Labour because they are in
:18:14. > :18:18.Government and we're delivering the same benefits for pupils here too.
:18:18. > :18:22.The UK Government announced plans this week for extra spending to
:18:22. > :18:26.help boost economic growth. Wales will get over �200 million as part
:18:26. > :18:29.of that. Labour and the Liberal Democrats already agreed as part of
:18:29. > :18:31.the budget deal that they will negotiate between the two of them
:18:31. > :18:35.to see the best way that money can be spent.
:18:35. > :18:40.. I hope the Welsh Liberal Democrats will look at this in the
:18:40. > :18:45.cold light of day and think about whether we really want to prop up a
:18:45. > :18:49.budget of a Government that we have all said, all the opposition
:18:49. > :18:53.parties said fundamentally fails Wales in education, in health and
:18:53. > :18:57.probably at the moment most importantly of all, in getting that
:18:57. > :19:03.economy that we so desperately need to get get going.
:19:03. > :19:07.All four parties will continue to raise questions over what each has
:19:07. > :19:10.gained and lost in this agreement, but the budget will be passed next
:19:10. > :19:16.week. Brian Meechan reporting.
:19:16. > :19:20.This is what the Finance Minister, Jane Hutt, had to say earlier.
:19:20. > :19:26.Education Minister told AMs that he was opposed to the Liberal
:19:26. > :19:32.Democrats pupil prem um idea. -- premium idea. What has changed?
:19:32. > :19:37.is important that this grant will be targeting our poorest pupils and
:19:37. > :19:40.that we have tailored it and this is in discussion with the Welsh
:19:40. > :19:44.Liberal Democrats to ensure it does provide the all important
:19:44. > :19:52.investment in pupils who perhaps are disadvantaged, it is going tobt
:19:52. > :19:57.pupils who get -- to be the pupils who get free school meals. Leighton
:19:57. > :20:02.Andrews is very keen in taking forward his school effectiveness
:20:02. > :20:05.grant which does link a target, the issue between disadvantaged and
:20:05. > :20:10.educational attainment. There is no issue here as a Government. This is
:20:10. > :20:14.very much engrained with our policy. Whatever you choose to call it, you
:20:14. > :20:17.promised �20 million to help the poorest pupils in the next budget
:20:17. > :20:24.year, but the commitment is only for that year, as I understand it.
:20:24. > :20:28.Do you intend to roll it out beyond 2012/13? We have put in sums for
:20:28. > :20:33.the second and third year because we hope very much this pupil
:20:33. > :20:36.deprivation grant will do what we intend it to do which is target the
:20:36. > :20:40.poorest pupils and make a difference to their educational
:20:40. > :20:42.educational opportunities and it is the responsible thing to do and as
:20:42. > :20:45.Finance Minister to have an indicative allocation in the
:20:45. > :20:49.following two years. Yes, because it would be a waste of
:20:49. > :20:53.money just to do it for a year, wouldn't it, given that the idea of
:20:53. > :20:59.the grant is that it follows the poorest pupils through the system
:20:59. > :21:06.so it gives them the buck up as they need as it were? It is a
:21:06. > :21:12.responsible way for taking forward the budget. Clearly we had little
:21:12. > :21:16.room for man manoeuvre. 99% of the budget is what we agreed in
:21:16. > :21:22.February. We had little room for manoeuvre in order to try and
:21:22. > :21:28.ensure we could meet issues and concerns that were raised during
:21:28. > :21:33.the draft budget process. It is critical that we spend this money
:21:33. > :21:37.effectively and in line with our policies and indeed, the schools,
:21:37. > :21:40.of course, are up to this and are pleased to welcome the funding.
:21:40. > :21:45.Tell me about the commitment to ongoing negotiations with the
:21:45. > :21:50.Liberal Democrats over the extra money that will be coming to Wales
:21:50. > :21:54.after the Chancellor's Autumn Statement this week? Not only the
:21:54. > :21:58.pupil deprivation grant, but the money that we had from the council
:21:58. > :22:05.tax freeze which we're using for economic stimulus, that was part of
:22:05. > :22:09.our discussions with other parties and that was important, but also...
:22:10. > :22:12.Yes. The �250 million as a result of the
:22:12. > :22:16.chancellor's sometime, yes -- statement, that is part of the
:22:16. > :22:19.agreement and we will discuss with them as to how we should allocate
:22:19. > :22:23.the funding. Can I say one interesting point about this?
:22:23. > :22:27.Across the chamber there is widespread support for the Wales
:22:27. > :22:32.infrastructure investment plan that I've announced. We all know we need
:22:32. > :22:37.an economic stimulus and that's that's to help not just the recover
:22:37. > :22:41.reap of the economy, transport links are crucial, but to make sure
:22:41. > :22:44.our public estate is fit like our schools. In the statement thaw
:22:44. > :22:48.issued signalling -- that you issued signalling the agreement
:22:48. > :22:51.that you had come from the Liberal Democrats. I am wondering whether
:22:51. > :22:55.that is paving the way to coalition with the Liberal Democrats more
:22:55. > :23:01.formally in the future? What is very clear in terms of this
:23:01. > :23:05.agreement, this agreement for the budget for next year for 2012/13,
:23:05. > :23:07.we are we are clear about that, the First Minister and the leader of
:23:07. > :23:12.the Welsh Liberal Democrats and I think that's a very important point.
:23:12. > :23:16.It is a lot of money. What the Chancellor announced for Wales that
:23:16. > :23:20.�216 million is over the next three years and your statement does say
:23:20. > :23:23.any further result frght chancellor's Autumn Statement will
:23:23. > :23:27.be the result of discussion in order to reach agreement on how it
:23:27. > :23:31.can be used. That suggest as longer commitment to continued
:23:31. > :23:36.negotiations with the Lib Dems? Well, that statement is very clear
:23:36. > :23:40.because we have got that �216 million coming to us and we need to
:23:40. > :23:45.make decision about that very quickly in times of plan -- in
:23:45. > :23:47.terms of of planning and in terms that we get it out there and in
:23:47. > :23:57.terms of capital investment. That's the agreement we made and that's
:23:57. > :23:59.
:23:59. > :24:03.the sum of money we're talking Kirsty Williams joins us. For some
:24:03. > :24:07.voters they may see a contradiction in the Welsh Liberal Democrats
:24:07. > :24:10.supporting Labour in the assembly who are critics of the decision
:24:10. > :24:14.making of the UK Government of which your Liberal Democrat
:24:14. > :24:18.colleagues in England are a vital part. Do you see any contradiction
:24:18. > :24:23.there? No. No, I don't. My job, the job of my Liberal Democrat
:24:23. > :24:27.colleagues at the assembly is to make decision on behalf of the
:24:27. > :24:31.people of Wales and to try and implement where we can our
:24:31. > :24:37.manifesto promises and to ensure that the Welsh Assembly Government
:24:37. > :24:45.does the right things for Wales now now and for the future. Let's be
:24:45. > :24:50.clear where why the pupil premium is important. One in five children
:24:50. > :24:54.on free school meals will get five GCSEs. Which thefg in these
:24:54. > :24:56.children now, we can turn that around and make sure they get the
:24:56. > :25:00.the qualification and the skills they need so our economy is
:25:00. > :25:02.stronger in the future and it it would have been irresponsible for
:25:02. > :25:06.Welsh Liberal Democrats to pass that opportunity by to give those
:25:06. > :25:10.kids a better chance. In terms of the �20 million that
:25:10. > :25:13.you have got guaranteed for the forthcoming budget, that's there.
:25:13. > :25:17.Is it your understanding there is a commitment in future years to
:25:17. > :25:21.continue that funding because I'm sure you would agree, it is not
:25:21. > :25:25.much good as a one off, is it? The impact wouldn't be as good as
:25:26. > :25:29.it could be if it is a one off. That's why we have persuaded the
:25:29. > :25:33.Government to include in their allocations for the following two
:25:33. > :25:36.years a commitment to carry on that pupil premium. I welcome that very
:25:36. > :25:42.much. The Opposition parties say you have
:25:42. > :25:45.struck a cheap deal here? Well, there is something depressingly
:25:45. > :25:48.predictable about the reaction of the Opposition parties. When Plaid
:25:48. > :25:52.in opposition voted through a Labour budget in 2006, they did so
:25:52. > :25:55.on the basis of �10 million. �10 million when budgets were rising
:25:55. > :25:59.and there was lots of money around. As for the Conservatives, well we
:25:59. > :26:03.know they want to take money out of the education budget, and make
:26:03. > :26:06.things harder for headteachers, teachers and pupils and the
:26:06. > :26:09.question to the Tories is, I have been able to achieve my headline
:26:09. > :26:15.manifesto commitment with five assembly members, the Tories
:26:15. > :26:19.haven't been able to achieve anything for for Wales with 15.
:26:19. > :26:23.There is a commitment in the statement of your agreement of
:26:23. > :26:26.support that Labour will negotiate with you about what to do with the
:26:26. > :26:31.extra money coming to Wales as a result of what the Chancellor had
:26:31. > :26:34.to say in the Autumn Statement. Is all this paving the way to a
:26:34. > :26:38.potential coalition deal in the future, do you think? No, no, no,
:26:38. > :26:46.it doesn't. I'm glad that the Chancellor's statement does mean
:26:46. > :26:49.that there will be money coming down to Wales to spend on capital
:26:49. > :26:53.projects and we will again work with the Labour Party to ensure
:26:53. > :26:59.that money is spent on schemes that will have an effect on our economy
:26:59. > :27:01.now, keeping people in jobs, creating jobs, but will help build
:27:01. > :27:05.the infrastructure for Wales to compete in the future.
:27:05. > :27:07.Clearly, there are areas you can find common ground with the
:27:07. > :27:10.Government. This agreement is evidence of that. Are you saying
:27:10. > :27:15.that you would not be interested in coalition with Labour should that
:27:15. > :27:18.be on the table for discussion? That hasn't been on the table for
:27:18. > :27:20.discussion. What has been on the table for the discussion is what
:27:20. > :27:25.can we do with the resources that have come down from London that
:27:25. > :27:28.will really make an impact in Wales. Are you ruling it out? It hasn't
:27:28. > :27:32.been a subject for discussion. I don't think that it is something
:27:32. > :27:35.that the Labour Party are interested in. If they were, would
:27:35. > :27:41.you consider it? That's what I'm trying to ask you.
:27:41. > :27:45.I don't think it is worth answering because it isn't a subject for
:27:45. > :27:48.discussion at the moment. What can we do, the Labour Party said said
:27:48. > :27:51.when they didn't win a majority, they would need to be less tribal
:27:51. > :27:55.and they would have to work with other people. I said the Welsh
:27:55. > :27:59.Liberal Democrats would be welling to work -- willing to work with
:27:59. > :28:04.other people if it delivered the right policies for Wales. That is
:28:04. > :28:12.vital to give us the infrastructure we need for Wales to compete in the
:28:12. > :28:19.Our political editor Betsan Powys has hotfooted it back from
:28:19. > :28:22.interviewing Ed Balls for us. Here she is. Let's talk about health
:28:22. > :28:27.boards because it seems that the Health Minister could have a
:28:27. > :28:31.problem brewing here. Fill us in. It is significant. Last week on
:28:31. > :28:35.Radio Wales a Health Minister says, "I am not going to bail out local
:28:36. > :28:39.health boards if they can't break even by the end of the financial
:28:39. > :28:42.year." We look at what they are projecting will be the case by the
:28:42. > :28:46.end of the financial year and six out of the seven are saying, "We
:28:47. > :28:50.will be in the red." By anything from �3 million to �14 million.
:28:50. > :28:54.What is going to happen? We will watch over the next few months as
:28:54. > :28:59.somebody has to blink, either the Health Minister as her predecessor
:28:59. > :29:02.has done, finds the money from somewhere or what? Local health
:29:02. > :29:06.boards have to start cutting fast and furiously to break even by the
:29:06. > :29:10.end of the year. It is a difficult one, isn't she?
:29:10. > :29:14.She left no room for doubt in her public statements? No, she said
:29:14. > :29:17.heads will roll. She will lose whole boards if necessary. She
:29:17. > :29:21.means those running health boards. If you do that, the debt is still
:29:21. > :29:27.there. The deficit is still there, you can roll it through into next
:29:27. > :29:30.year, where does that leave you next year? With even less money.
:29:30. > :29:35.The question is where these boards are going to cut now so late in the