:00:05. > :00:15.Party politics aside, how should we change the Welsh health service?
:00:15. > :00:22.
:00:22. > :00:26.This is Dragon's Eye. Good evening. People across the UK
:00:26. > :00:27.are being encouraged to sign up to the Organ Donor Register as part of
:00:27. > :00:31.National Transplant Week, but the debate over the Welsh Government's
:00:31. > :00:33.plans to introduce an opt-out system continue to be controversial.
:00:33. > :00:36.Dragon's Eye has received copies of documents under the Freedom of
:00:36. > :00:39.Information Act that show that the UK Government raised concerns over
:00:39. > :00:45.whether it was desirable, feasible or necessary to run two different
:00:45. > :00:48.systems. The Welsh Government also promised to continue paying for the
:00:48. > :00:58.UK organ donation system while it found the money for the new opt-out
:00:58. > :01:06.
:01:06. > :01:10.system from its own budget. Here's Brian Meechan. Ultimately everyone
:01:10. > :01:15.wants to the same outcome - increasing the number of donors to
:01:15. > :01:19.save lives. But how to do that is a source of passionate disagreement.
:01:19. > :01:27.The transplant figures for Wales have increased in the last five
:01:27. > :01:32.years. The number of donors has risen to 45 in 2007-08 to 67 in
:01:32. > :01:38.2011-12. There's been a rise in the number of people on the register,
:01:38. > :01:42.by 5% over the same period. The co- ordinators of the organ donation
:01:42. > :01:51.system say it is because they've changed the way it operates. Since
:01:51. > :01:57.2008 when the team increased to 12 and they were placed as residents
:01:57. > :02:01.within hospitals, we have almost reached the 50% increase target set
:02:01. > :02:07.down by the task force. Some critics of the presumed consent
:02:07. > :02:11.proposals suggest kite damage the successes seen so far. People may
:02:11. > :02:16.feel uneasy whether we call it presumed consent or deemed con
:02:16. > :02:21.sthaent there is somehow some sort of line being -- consent, that
:02:21. > :02:24.there is somehow some sort of line being crossed that their organs or
:02:24. > :02:29.bodies are no longer their property. Unfortunately that might leave
:02:30. > :02:39.people to take the decision to opt out. Mike Stevens a transplant
:02:40. > :02:44.
:02:44. > :02:48.What we are talking about is an opt-out system with safeguards, the
:02:48. > :02:54.of the opt-out if you like. There is an opportunity to opt out but
:02:54. > :02:58.there'll be a discussion with the family of every potential donor to
:02:58. > :03:03.ascertain whether this really was their zifrplt as is the case now,
:03:03. > :03:08.at the moment if your name is on the Organ Donor Register legally
:03:08. > :03:12.your organs can be used for transplantation. That doesn't mean
:03:12. > :03:18.that there's a mandate that they have to be removed. That's still
:03:19. > :03:25.going to be the case if we change to this new proposal. Spain was
:03:25. > :03:29.widely quoted as the example when presumed consent was proposed in
:03:29. > :03:34.Wales. But the Spanish co- ordinators say presumed consent had
:03:34. > :03:38.no impact when it was introduced and is no longer used in practise.
:03:38. > :03:45.They argue that having specialist medical staff in hospitals and more
:03:45. > :03:50.intensive care beds is what organs are deemed to be suitable
:03:50. > :03:53.for transplantation purposes, then they must die in a critical care
:03:53. > :03:58.environment. I think that research demonstrates that in countries
:03:58. > :04:05.abroad where there's been a welcome improvement in levels of organ
:04:05. > :04:09.donation that money has been pumped into seeing to it that there is
:04:09. > :04:12.plenty of critical care space available. The Royal College of
:04:12. > :04:17.Surgeons has raised concerns about operating one system in Wales and
:04:17. > :04:21.another in England. It could lead to legal as well as practical
:04:21. > :04:29.problems for medics, since surgeons are responsible for ensuring that
:04:29. > :04:33.Scotland and England have a slightly different law and they
:04:33. > :04:38.make things work without too many difficulties. I believe we will be
:04:38. > :04:42.able to do the same. I believe this will be successful, as long as we
:04:42. > :04:45.approach it in the right way. Scandal engulfed Alder Hey Hospital
:04:45. > :04:50.in Liverpool when it emerged that organs had been removed from
:04:50. > :04:58.children without consent. It led to the Human Tissue Act and the Human
:04:58. > :05:03.Tissue Authority. The Human Tissue Act is very clear that consent
:05:04. > :05:07.should be a positive act. That is simply -- to simply have an option
:05:07. > :05:11.of opting out and being deemed to have given consent is concerning. I
:05:11. > :05:15.understand why they are doing it but I think it is concerning.
:05:15. > :05:19.asked the Welsh government for details of discussions with UK
:05:19. > :05:29.ministers on this issue. It continuously refused to release
:05:29. > :05:30.
:05:30. > :05:36.Dragon's Eye received documents that showed deep concerns on the
:05:36. > :05:40.part of Ministers in London about presumed consent operating only in
:05:40. > :05:44.Wales. They said they weren't convinced a separate system was
:05:44. > :05:49.feasible, desirable or necessary. think the problem of having two
:05:49. > :05:52.systems, the problem of having people who move between
:05:52. > :05:55.jurisdiction and the uncertainty of the clinicians and the surgeons,
:05:56. > :06:00.clearly says that there is an issue here that has to be addressed. It
:06:00. > :06:04.goes back to the starting point - what's the purpose of this is they
:06:04. > :06:07.are achieving increased organ donation through education and
:06:07. > :06:11.communication? The Welsh Government also told Ministers in London that
:06:11. > :06:15.the new register would be funded from the Welsh budget and it would
:06:15. > :06:21.be continuing to pay into the UK system too. Supporters say it is
:06:21. > :06:25.worth getting behind the presumed consent model. What we'll see is an
:06:25. > :06:30.increase in donors and transplants. I think the rest of the UK will be
:06:30. > :06:36.looking at us with envy and are likely to change their system. I
:06:36. > :06:39.think we'll be the leaders in the UK and around the world as well.
:06:39. > :06:46.When matters of life and death are involved it is no surprise they
:06:46. > :06:50.motions run high. As everyone aims for the ultimate goal of increasing
:06:50. > :06:52.the number of donors. As it's National Transplant Week,
:06:52. > :06:56.we asked the Health Minister, Lesley Griffiths, for an interview
:06:56. > :06:59.on the Government's plans for organ donation. She said no, but she did
:06:59. > :07:02.give us a statement. It says that the freedom of information request
:07:02. > :07:06.related to issues relevant to a previous attempt to bring in an
:07:06. > :07:08.opt-out system in the last Assembly. And that the Welsh Government is
:07:08. > :07:14."maintaining dialogue" with the UK Government to address their
:07:14. > :07:22.concerns. It also denies that the Welsh Government will be funding
:07:22. > :07:24.two systems of organ donation. Joining me now is Professor John
:07:24. > :07:33.Saunders, chair of the Royal College of Physicians' Ethics
:07:33. > :07:39.Committee, and the chair of Kidney Wales Foundation, Roy Thomas. You
:07:39. > :07:42.are a keen supporter of the new proposals. What do you make of the
:07:43. > :07:45.argument that says we are getting where we want to be anyway.
:07:45. > :07:49.Donation rates are going up, the number of people signing the
:07:49. > :07:54.register is going up. It looks as if the Government is going to hit
:07:54. > :07:57.the target that it set itself by 2013. It is working, don't Tam we
:07:57. > :08:04.are with? First of all the Government in the UK won't reach
:08:04. > :08:07.its target in 2013. No, I'm talking about in a Wales. In Wales we will.
:08:07. > :08:10.We've been debating this for six or seven years. The people of Wales
:08:10. > :08:13.understand the issues. We understand we have a good
:08:13. > :08:16.transplant unit, a world-class transplant unit in Cardiff, and
:08:16. > :08:20.they understand the issues. They have through campaigns over the
:08:21. > :08:25.last three or four campaigns increased the Organ Donor Register.
:08:25. > :08:29.But that system is outdated. It hasn't achieved what it should
:08:29. > :08:33.achieve and we need a new system. Professor, do you agree with that,
:08:34. > :08:37.is the current system outdated? it is not. It doesn't work as well
:08:37. > :08:41.as it should, but the rising number of people on the Organ Donor
:08:41. > :08:45.Register is in Wales, that's terrific news. The percentage is
:08:45. > :08:49.going up. Wales has always been ahead of the rest of the UK in this
:08:49. > :08:53.respect. With respect to England, there is enormous variation in
:08:53. > :08:58.English regions. None of emare quite up to Wales but one or two
:08:58. > :09:02.are close to it. What are your concerns about an opt-out system?
:09:02. > :09:07.It is cheerful the impact of people's choices of how many people
:09:07. > :09:11.will opt out because they don't like the idea of organs being taken.
:09:11. > :09:15.I don't think there's a primary ethical objection. So are you
:09:15. > :09:21.concerned that perhaps the progressed that in Wales will be
:09:21. > :09:27.jeopardised by an opt-out system? That's the angzifplt There is no
:09:27. > :09:31.evidence of that. You talked in your clip about Spain. We've been
:09:31. > :09:36.highly successful. They have more intensive care beds. We hopeful
:09:36. > :09:41.will do that. It has increased donation in place like Belgium,
:09:41. > :09:45.where they introduced this in 1986. The fears of people on the opt-out
:09:45. > :09:52.register. They are there and I can understand that. John has a good
:09:52. > :09:56.point on that. I'm clear this Wales, the BBC poll in March showed a 62%
:09:56. > :10:01.support. We've only got 33% on the Organ Donor Register. It is
:10:01. > :10:05.fantastic to see more people on that. I do say it is outdated.
:10:06. > :10:10.about some of the concerns around safeguards and that sort of thing?
:10:10. > :10:13.I know the Royal College of surgeons has been expressing
:10:13. > :10:17.concerns, because legally it's the obligation of the surgeon
:10:17. > :10:21.performing the transplant to ensure that proper core sent has been
:10:21. > :10:25.given. What about mental capacity issues? You do have concerns about
:10:25. > :10:30.how that will be dealt with, in terms of people with learning
:10:30. > :10:35.disabilities, perhaps people with dementia, the mentally ill?
:10:35. > :10:40.sensitivities that we have in the NHS, and Alder Hey was mentioned.
:10:40. > :10:45.Alder Hey was historic. It was a very sad episode in NHS Stu, but
:10:45. > :10:50.the human tissue Act dealt with that. It should be consigned to the
:10:50. > :10:56.history books, now doctors are aware of consent. They do look at
:10:56. > :11:01.the immediate family for guidance. Naz your clip, the organ donor co-
:11:01. > :11:05.ordinators are experts all of this. What about that, that ultimately
:11:05. > :11:10.because the families will still be consulted and their weres will be
:11:10. > :11:14.taken into account you have the ultimate safeguard? I rather
:11:14. > :11:19.support Roy's views on this. It doesn't worry me, I think it has
:11:19. > :11:22.been taken care of. Roy is right to emphasise that some of these issues
:11:22. > :11:25.over consent belong to pleasant experiences in the past. Gentlemen,
:11:25. > :11:28.thank you. Unless you've been away all week,
:11:28. > :11:31.you'll know there's been a blazing row over changes to the health
:11:31. > :11:33.service. More specifically, a report into the changes. Or more
:11:33. > :11:37.specifically still, e-mails between the author of the report and senior
:11:37. > :11:41.Government officials. In all the political mudslinging, it's easy
:11:41. > :11:45.enough to forget the real issue - the far-reaching changes to the NHS
:11:45. > :11:55.in Wales. We know it's difficult, we're told it's necessary, but is
:11:55. > :11:57.
:11:57. > :12:01.it achievable? Arwyn Jones reports. Since taking the job just over a
:12:01. > :12:06.year ago the Health Minister has said on several occasions she will
:12:06. > :12:10.have to face some flak over influence restructure hospitals in
:12:10. > :12:15.Wales. This week she saw exactly what that flak can look like.
:12:15. > :12:19.do accept that you do not have a grip on your department? We can
:12:20. > :12:24.have no trust in the Welsh Government now. The people of Wales,
:12:24. > :12:31.Llanelli and Mid and West Wales will feel they've been sold a pig
:12:31. > :12:37.in a poke. Let's see what led to such a tumultuous week in Wales
:12:37. > :12:42.politics. The report was to articulate the reasons why health
:12:42. > :12:45.boards need to change services. And to help health boards in engaging
:12:45. > :12:50.with their communities about the future of hospital services in
:12:50. > :12:55.Wales. The report published in the spring said mortality rates for
:12:55. > :12:59.general surgery, trauma and oorth pedics, general medicine and stroke
:12:59. > :13:02.services are higher in Wales than in England. It said there is
:13:02. > :13:07.evidence that centralising emergency surgery brings mortality
:13:07. > :13:10.rates up to the English average, and mortality for heart attacks,
:13:10. > :13:15.stroke and major trauma are improved when services are
:13:15. > :13:19.centralised. It also said that outcomes improved significantly if
:13:19. > :13:23.patients receive the right care and treatments within the first golden
:13:23. > :13:27.hour of falling ill or getting injured. So what's caused this
:13:28. > :13:32.debate? Well this, week BBC Wales highlighted e-mail correspondence
:13:32. > :13:36.between the author of the report, Professor Marcus Longley, and
:13:36. > :13:40.senior Welsh Government officials. In one e-mail exchange, Professor
:13:40. > :13:44.Longley asks the medical director of the NHS in Wales, Dr Chris Jones,
:13:44. > :13:48.for more killer facts. And expresses concerns that the
:13:48. > :13:53.evidence as presented does not seem to be as incisive as we might have
:13:53. > :13:57.hoped. Who, asked the opposition, is we? In another, he asks for more
:13:58. > :14:02.evidence to Sian up the document and its impact in supporting the
:14:02. > :14:06.case for change Return Dr Jones advises the Professor That the
:14:06. > :14:10.document needs to be more positive if possible, and set out a more
:14:11. > :14:14.persuasive vision of how things could be better. So a showdown was
:14:14. > :14:18.set for First Minister's Questions on Tuesday, with accusations and
:14:18. > :14:25.counter accusations. First out, the First Minister. It is cowardice to
:14:25. > :14:30.attack the reputation of an academic, to try to suggest he is
:14:30. > :14:36.independent, to ruin his reputation in the academic world, without
:14:36. > :14:40.there being any comeback The correspondence, the Government says,
:14:40. > :14:43.was no more than sharing information.. There has been
:14:43. > :14:47.nothing in this process which has lacked in transparency. I have
:14:47. > :14:51.neither lived nor connived with anyone. But that wasn't enough to
:14:51. > :14:54.silence the opposition, who decided to come out in force. Will you
:14:54. > :14:58.apologise for mislead this Assembly and the people of Wales about the
:14:58. > :15:03.fact that it was not an independent report in if you didn't know, you
:15:03. > :15:06.do accept thaw do not have a grip on your department? And that it is
:15:06. > :15:10.time for you to resign? This is another case of the Labour Party
:15:10. > :15:14.sex up a document to try to prove their case. People across Wales are
:15:14. > :15:22.really frightened about the future of their local hospitals. They can
:15:22. > :15:25.have no trust in the Welsh Next week, she will go before the
:15:25. > :15:28.health committee on the eve of a vote of no confidence in her. It is
:15:28. > :15:33.clearly an issue which will dominate the political landscape in
:15:33. > :15:36.Wales for the foreseeable future. If we can leave aside the political
:15:37. > :15:41.cut-and-thrust, at its heart this debate is about the future of the
:15:41. > :15:46.NHS, the next direction for our hospitals and so on. Professor
:15:46. > :15:50.Marcus Longley's report was supposed to feed into that. The
:15:50. > :15:55.health minister has said that the status quo, no change, is no longer
:15:55. > :15:59.an option. But changing away from the status quo, not just for this
:15:59. > :16:03.government, but for others, too, has proven more easily said than
:16:03. > :16:08.done. Because this is what you get when you talk about restructuring
:16:08. > :16:12.health services. Locals out in force to oppose plans. This man
:16:12. > :16:18.used to be a top official at the UK Government's Department of Health,
:16:18. > :16:22.and he says it is clear why the NHS has trouble convincing locals.
:16:22. > :16:26.the same locality, the NHS bureaucracy offer the same
:16:26. > :16:30.unpopular choice, get rebuffed and come back five years later with it
:16:30. > :16:33.again, get rebuffed and come back five years later again. The people
:16:33. > :16:38.pushing it might have only just got the job, might be newly elected,
:16:38. > :16:42.but the people rejecting it have seen it four times. They did not
:16:42. > :16:49.like at the last three times and do not like it this time. But it is
:16:49. > :16:53.not just from the public. It tends to fracture because the retail
:16:53. > :16:57.constituency members understand they cannot travel with this. So
:16:57. > :17:01.although it is the official party line, the locals understand this is
:17:01. > :17:06.not a pathway to re-election, so they peel off. So you get cross-
:17:06. > :17:11.party tension and Intra party tension. So the consensus breaks
:17:11. > :17:14.down. That might not be the only problem. Today, the Auditor-General
:17:14. > :17:19.for Wales said although current health services are not affordable,
:17:19. > :17:23.it might not have enough funds to pay for major reforms either.
:17:23. > :17:29.are waiting for the Government proposals as to how they are going
:17:29. > :17:33.to react to the ideas the boards are going to bring forward over the
:17:33. > :17:38.next year, in terms of changing the pattern of services. Those have to
:17:38. > :17:42.stay within the budgets available in Wales. That is the challenge.
:17:42. > :17:48.Because if you move from current provision to future provision, you
:17:48. > :17:51.need to spend money. And as I said, money is very tight. What exactly
:17:51. > :17:58.the new plans are will be revealed over the next few weeks and months.
:17:58. > :18:03.One thing is for sure - in politics, health always gets the pulse racing.
:18:03. > :18:06.Let's discuss some of that. With me, the chair of the Assembly's health
:18:06. > :18:10.committee, Mark Drakeford, Plaid Cymru's health spokesperson Elin
:18:11. > :18:15.Jones, and the former Conservative AM of Jonathan Morgan, also a
:18:15. > :18:19.former chair of the health committee. Well come. Do any of you
:18:19. > :18:26.think that the status quo is the way forward for the Welsh Health
:18:26. > :18:30.Service? Well, the health service is continually evolving. It changes
:18:30. > :18:34.all the time. I have been the Assembly Member for Ceredigion for
:18:34. > :18:38.13 years. It has changed during my time and will continue to change,
:18:38. > :18:43.especially with new technology that offers new opportunities of
:18:43. > :18:47.delivering a service. But they are fundamental services in a district
:18:47. > :18:52.general hospital that need to be there to save lives and provide the
:18:52. > :18:57.ability of babies to be born in that community, and for services to
:18:57. > :19:01.care for the elderly. So is it your position that services at district
:19:01. > :19:05.general hospitals should never be up for discussion, that what is
:19:05. > :19:09.there must remain for ever and a day? That is not what I said. I
:19:09. > :19:13.accept that change will happen, technology will change and afford
:19:13. > :19:20.new opportunities, but there are basic services that a community
:19:20. > :19:24.will require within a distance, within a timely intervention...
:19:24. > :19:28.you consider those untouchable? From my perspective, in
:19:28. > :19:34.representing Ceredigion and the hospital we saw in some of those
:19:34. > :19:39.pictures, that access to emergency surgery that can save lives, access
:19:39. > :19:45.to emergency Caesarean that can deliver babies safely and save the
:19:45. > :19:48.lives of mothers, those are pretty fundamental. If those are removed
:19:48. > :19:55.from a community where there is then no ability to have those
:19:55. > :19:59.services within reach of life saving opportunities, that is not
:19:59. > :20:04.acceptable to those communities and no politician could sell that.
:20:04. > :20:09.are pulling a face. We have to be realistic about where we are in
:20:09. > :20:13.delivering health services in Wales. Since devolution in 1999, we have
:20:14. > :20:17.been told by independent experts, clinicians, by people working in
:20:17. > :20:20.the Wales Audit Office and others, not just by politicians or
:20:20. > :20:25.Government ministers, that the NHS and the way we deliver services,
:20:25. > :20:30.how we deliver them, the localities, what services we deliver, has to
:20:30. > :20:34.change. Because if you keep thinking that the NHS of the 1950s
:20:34. > :20:38.is something you can deliver today, we are kidding ourselves. The
:20:38. > :20:41.health service has become much more expensive to deliver. There are
:20:41. > :20:44.examples throughout the world where services are delivered more closely
:20:44. > :20:49.to people and become far more effective and efficient. We know
:20:49. > :20:53.that closer collaboration between health and social services is
:20:53. > :20:56.needed to make sure we spend money more wisely. I think some of the
:20:56. > :20:59.health service provision we have had in Wales, although that has
:20:59. > :21:03.been very good, there have been poor examples. Some community
:21:04. > :21:08.hospitals, frankly, should have closed years ago. We spent months,
:21:08. > :21:12.if not years, talking about when neurosurgery ought to be located in
:21:12. > :21:16.South Wales. The problem in Wales is that very often we are good at
:21:16. > :21:20.analysing the problem, at sick -- accepting that what we have will
:21:20. > :21:23.not work, and taking forever and a day to provide a solution. We are
:21:23. > :21:27.now hitting the buffers because we are running out of money and the
:21:27. > :21:30.local health boards, which have tried to do a very difficult job in
:21:30. > :21:35.difficult circumstances, are now facing the biggest challenge of
:21:35. > :21:37.their lives. Mark Drakeford, how do you go about trying to build
:21:37. > :21:41.political consensus for what is obviously very difficult change,
:21:41. > :21:47.given that everyone seems to have a different concept of what change
:21:47. > :21:52.means for the NHS? Change is very difficult in the NHS. Not just in
:21:52. > :21:56.Wales, but anywhere that change is trying to be brought about. Let me
:21:56. > :22:01.give three reasons for optimism about what can be achieved. First,
:22:01. > :22:03.inside the Assembly Chamber, not universally, but I think across a
:22:04. > :22:07.considerable majority of members, there is a shared understanding of
:22:07. > :22:11.what the problem is. You have heard some of it already this evening.
:22:11. > :22:16.Lots of what they have said, I would agree with in understanding
:22:16. > :22:19.what the problem is. That is a good starting-point. Second, we have
:22:19. > :22:27.managed to bring about change in places. We have actually succeeded
:22:27. > :22:30.in it. I was recently in a fantastic new hospital. Three old
:22:30. > :22:33.community hospitals had to be closed to make that happen and it
:22:33. > :22:37.was done with the agreement of the local population. We can make this
:22:37. > :22:40.happen. Third, and maybe slightly strangely, that again in the way
:22:40. > :22:44.that Jonathan Stead, the pressures from funding are such that the
:22:44. > :22:50.choice about change is no longer, shall we think about it, when will
:22:50. > :22:53.we do it? It is an urgent thing on our doorstep. Is that what makes
:22:53. > :22:57.people suspicious when it comes to establishing the agreement of the
:22:57. > :23:02.local population? People think, this is actually about saving money,
:23:02. > :23:05.not giving me better services. And as Elin Jones was saying, even if
:23:05. > :23:09.they had to travel that little bit further when they are about to give
:23:09. > :23:14.birth to their baby, or an emergency, that could compromise
:23:14. > :23:17.their chances of a successful outcome. They are a couple of
:23:17. > :23:22.issues. People become suspicious when politicians and health boards
:23:22. > :23:25.talk about changing local services. Automatically, they think they will
:23:25. > :23:32.end up with something worse than what they have. The problem with
:23:32. > :23:36.where we Arnaud, and I know it is being retrospective, but we had
:23:36. > :23:41.year on year significant increases in health expenditure between 1999
:23:41. > :23:46.and 2005-2006. At no point in that period was there an attempt to
:23:46. > :23:49.radically reform the delivery of health services. The Government
:23:49. > :23:53.spent time restructuring health boards and Trusts. It was
:23:53. > :23:57.bureaucratic. It was not about service delivery, but about
:23:57. > :24:02.shifting the chairs in the local health board structures. That is a
:24:02. > :24:07.challenge. A we have to do much to take the public with us. Local
:24:07. > :24:10.health boards should consult with the public. If push has come to
:24:10. > :24:14.shove, and you have expressed there are grounds for optimism, do you
:24:14. > :24:17.believe that in the course of this Assembly political consensus can be
:24:18. > :24:22.established, voters can be brought along with the proposals the
:24:22. > :24:26.Government is about to make? certainly think that in the process
:24:26. > :24:29.of change you have to think of the patients as assets. The reason we
:24:29. > :24:33.sometimes have difficulties is because people feel passionately
:24:33. > :24:37.about the NHS and their services. If you regard people as the enemy,
:24:37. > :24:43.you will never bring about change. You have to harness enthusiasm for
:24:43. > :24:46.the NHS and turn it into an asset. Thank you for joining us.
:24:46. > :24:49.Cardiff council employees are planning to use the Olympics in
:24:49. > :24:53.Cardiff as a platform to protest against plans to appoint a team of
:24:53. > :24:56.senior managers. With the eyes of the world on the capital city as
:24:56. > :25:03.the Games kick-off, the GMB union says it will target Olympic
:25:03. > :25:06.football events which are being played at the Millennium Stadium.
:25:06. > :25:10.The Rings are up, we have seen the Olympic torch in the capital, and
:25:10. > :25:13.in less than two weeks, thousands will be in the Millennium Stadium
:25:13. > :25:17.to watch Great Britain take on New Zealand in the women's football.
:25:17. > :25:21.And as the eyes of the world focus on Cardiff, they could see some in
:25:21. > :25:28.the crowd wearing T-shirts protesting against plans for the
:25:28. > :25:32.council to employee up to 24 senior managers on salaries of up to
:25:32. > :25:37.�120,000. The plans have been drawn up by the council has no chief
:25:37. > :25:41.executive, and the proposal is to appoint a team of senior managers
:25:41. > :25:47.to support the council's cabinet. The aim is to put the Cabinet at
:25:47. > :25:53.the heart of decision-making. The plans will cost �1.7 million a year
:25:53. > :25:57.in wages. And that is spending that the trade unions' call obscene.
:25:57. > :26:03.have �55 million to save them the next three years. We understand
:26:03. > :26:06.that we are in economic meltdown. This is obscene and immoral.
:26:06. > :26:12.Earlier this month, Cardiff Council announce that lowest paid workers
:26:12. > :26:15.will receive a wage increase of around 1500 pounds per year if, as
:26:15. > :26:19.the authority claims to be the first in Wales to introduce a
:26:19. > :26:22.living wage. On the same day, staff at the council were informed of
:26:22. > :26:26.plans to change the management structure. One former Cabinet
:26:26. > :26:32.member is sceptical of the reasoning for the appointments.
:26:32. > :26:41.as they say in the paper there goes the full Cabinet, if they want to
:26:41. > :26:45.make a truly member-led administration, they are talking
:26:45. > :26:49.about not responding birdie at a supplementary meeting two questions.
:26:49. > :26:53.Why would a Cabinet member be afraid to answer my supplementary
:26:53. > :26:59.question verbally if they had the ability? Unions say many staff had
:26:59. > :27:02.seen wages reduced by up to �8,000 following job evaluation. They are
:27:02. > :27:07.actively discussing ways to vent their opposition to the proposals.
:27:07. > :27:11.At the end of the day, some of our members have said that they have
:27:11. > :27:15.already bought tickets for the Olympic venues. And they may well
:27:15. > :27:19.be wearing T-shirts to say how ludicrous it what is currently
:27:19. > :27:23.being proposed by this establishment. The council says
:27:23. > :27:27.that they are investing now in order to save money on consultant
:27:27. > :27:31.fees in future. Cabinet members are meeting this evening and are
:27:31. > :27:35.expected to rubber-stamp the senior management model and approve a 30
:27:35. > :27:39.day consultation process. In the meantime, council employees in
:27:39. > :27:44.unison and the GMB unions could be making an Olympian effort to oppose
:27:44. > :27:48.the plans. Betsan Powys is here. Let's return
:27:48. > :27:51.to the health row. It has been a difficult week for the health
:27:51. > :27:55.minister and she faces another difficult week. Yes, super
:27:55. > :27:59.Wednesday. In the morning, the Health Committee, where she will
:27:59. > :28:03.appear with Marcus Longley and Dr Chris Jones. That is where the
:28:03. > :28:08.opposition want answers. If they do not get them, they will be a motion
:28:08. > :28:12.of no confidence in the afternoon. She was regarded as one of the
:28:12. > :28:16.weakest links in the Cabinet. After all this, if she survives, she is
:28:16. > :28:21.bound to be the safest number of the Cabinet. How could Carwyn Jones
:28:21. > :28:26.get rid of her? We have come to the end of the road on Dragon's Eye I.
:28:26. > :28:33.At this point, it has been customary to do this. Vicky for
:28:33. > :28:39.watching, have a good summer, good night. Take care and good night.