:00:20. > :00:22.Across east Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, cultural events
:00:23. > :00:25.are taking place that are putting this region well and truly
:00:26. > :00:28.on the map, and the political map of the region could be
:00:29. > :00:30.about to change too, with the vote on June the 8th.
:00:31. > :00:33.There's a buzz about this place, Hull, in particular,
:00:34. > :00:36.International artists are making the city their home,
:00:37. > :00:38.and new work celebrating the community, the history
:00:39. > :00:41.and the future of Hull have all been in the national spotlight.
:00:42. > :00:46.As we prepare to go to the polls again in the general election,
:00:47. > :00:48.the decisions made by voters here and across east Yorkshire
:00:49. > :00:50.and Lincolnshire will help to shape the political landscape
:00:51. > :01:03.of the region and country for the next five years.
:01:04. > :01:05.Good evening, and welcome to a special Look North
:01:06. > :01:09.general election debate from St Mary's College in Hull.
:01:10. > :01:12.Tonight we're joined by an audience of voters from across east
:01:13. > :01:15.Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, who will be putting their
:01:16. > :01:22.They are Victoria Atkins for the Conservatives,
:01:23. > :01:25.standing in Louth and Horncastle, Claire Thomas for the Liberal
:01:26. > :01:28.Democrats, standing in Hull for Hull West and Hessle,
:01:29. > :01:32.Diana Johnson for Labour, also standing in this city
:01:33. > :01:35.for the Hull North constituency, and Mike Hookem standing
:01:36. > :01:53.Now, you can follow the debate as we go along.
:01:54. > :01:56.If you want to comment on any of the remarks that you've heard
:01:57. > :01:58.made by either our guests or by our audience, then
:01:59. > :02:03.just go to social media, either Facebook or Twitter.
:02:04. > :02:17.We look forward to reading all of your comments as we go along.
:02:18. > :02:20.So let's have our first question from a GP in Hull.
:02:21. > :02:27.I want to ask you, how will you seek funding for the NHS
:02:28. > :02:33.so we have a future health care system that lasts?
:02:34. > :02:37.The National Health Service is absolutely critical
:02:38. > :02:41.to our country, to each of us as individuals, and I thank you,
:02:42. > :02:47.One of the things we've got to do is to make sure
:02:48. > :02:49.that we have a sustainable plan for the NHS going forward,
:02:50. > :02:53.and that is why, in 2015, the Conservatives asked
:02:54. > :02:58.the professionals in the NHS for the money they wanted
:02:59. > :03:04.We are giving the NHS that money and we are committing a further
:03:05. > :03:07.?8 billion over the next five-year Parliament.
:03:08. > :03:11.Now, what we need to do is to make sure that that money is spent
:03:12. > :03:14.as effectively as possible, and I know that there are issues,
:03:15. > :03:16.for example, GP waiting times, certainly in my part of
:03:17. > :03:21.We've got to make sure that we can recruit more doctors, more nurses
:03:22. > :03:24.and that they are working with the best technologies
:03:25. > :03:28.we have available so that conditions such as cancer,
:03:29. > :03:31.survival rates of cancer continue to improve,
:03:32. > :03:34.as they have done over the last few years.
:03:35. > :03:36.Are you going to fund this by increasing income taxes
:03:37. > :03:39.or National Insurance because the guaranteed not to do
:03:40. > :03:44.What is absolutely key to finding the NHS and all of the public
:03:45. > :03:47.services that we care about is a strong economy
:03:48. > :03:49.because the foundations of strong economy, more people in work,
:03:50. > :03:58.as there are at the moment, we have the highest employment
:03:59. > :04:00.rate for many years now, more people paying taxes, fair rates
:04:01. > :04:03.of tax, that is what helps fund the NHS and all the things
:04:04. > :04:12.We have to support the economy to make sure it's
:04:13. > :04:17.The Conservatives are a low tax party by nature,
:04:18. > :04:20.and it's one of the reasons I am a Conservative, but it's the economy
:04:21. > :04:27.What Victoria's just said obviously doesn't allow
:04:28. > :04:30.for the fact where the money's going to come from.
:04:31. > :04:33.The Lib Dems have been very clear that we would put a penny on income
:04:34. > :04:38.tax and ring fence that money to pay for investment in the
:04:39. > :04:43.And I think that anybody that tries to say, we are going to invest
:04:44. > :04:46.in the NHS, we are going to invest in social care, but can't say
:04:47. > :04:49.where the money is coming from is just fooling us because this
:04:50. > :04:54.The NHS needs that extra funding, and we have to be clear that that
:04:55. > :04:57.funding doesn't come out of nowhere, so it's right that we should put
:04:58. > :05:02.It's fair for everybody to pay a penny extra on our income tax
:05:03. > :05:05.in order to fund the NHS, that funding that's
:05:06. > :05:08.But your leader has said that the Conservatives
:05:09. > :05:12.are going to win, and he said that there will be no coalition
:05:13. > :05:14.with any other party, so why would anybody vote
:05:15. > :05:19.Because we are going to be the ones that are out there fighting
:05:20. > :05:23.for the NHS and fighting for this extra penny in income tax.
:05:24. > :05:26.At the moment, we've got a situation where the Conservatives
:05:27. > :05:30.are doing what they like, and they know they are not
:05:31. > :05:33.going to invest in the NHS and in social care, we know
:05:34. > :05:36.that they are not going to put up taxes in order to do that.
:05:37. > :05:39.We don't know where the money's going to come from.
:05:40. > :05:41.Their manifesto doesn't say where the money's going to come
:05:42. > :05:44.from this investment but, to be fair, Labour are not providing
:05:45. > :05:47.that opposition to stand up for our NHS either and,
:05:48. > :05:52.actually, there is no solution being given by anybody
:05:53. > :05:56.We are saying, actually, that penny on income tax to pay for it,
:05:57. > :06:00.we are being honest about the fact that there isn't enough money,
:06:01. > :06:02.and this is where we would bring the money from.
:06:03. > :06:06.To answer the question directly, the Labour Party has said
:06:07. > :06:09.that we want to increase the rate of tax for people who earn
:06:10. > :06:15.over ?80,000 per year to 45p in the pound,
:06:16. > :06:18.and for those earning over ?125,000, we want to put it up
:06:19. > :06:24.We also want to see corporation tax go up so big companies are paying
:06:25. > :06:28.a fair share into paying for services like the NHS.
:06:29. > :06:31.So I think we've got a very clear way of saying how
:06:32. > :06:38.It certainly seems to me there are issues about staffing in the NHS.
:06:39. > :06:41.We are here in Hull, we have the Hull York Medical School.
:06:42. > :06:45.I certainly want to see more GP and doctor training places
:06:46. > :06:47.being given to Hull York Medical School.
:06:48. > :06:50.And also, one of the other things which I think is a disgrace
:06:51. > :06:53.that the Conservatives have done in government is to take away
:06:54. > :06:56.the nurse bursaries to stop encouraging people to go
:06:57. > :07:04.Let's take a quick question from the gentleman there in the blue
:07:05. > :07:08.You had your chance in 2010 when you were in coalition
:07:09. > :07:10.with the government, and you never stuck
:07:11. > :07:17.to your promises then, so why would we believe you now?
:07:18. > :07:20.Gentleman in the checked shirt behind.
:07:21. > :07:22.I think one of the interesting things said there is that,
:07:23. > :07:25.particularly the targets from the Labour Party,
:07:26. > :07:28.talking about big businesses paying for increasing tax in parts
:07:29. > :07:31.of their manifesto, do you actually have a defined
:07:32. > :07:33.statistic for what you define as a big business?
:07:34. > :07:36.Because I think it very interesting to say that you're going to increase
:07:37. > :07:40.corporation tax in order to fund things like this, but there are also
:07:41. > :07:42.lots of small and medium businesses who this would particularly
:07:43. > :07:47.negatively affect, and I think that could be very dangerous.
:07:48. > :07:49.I'll come back to Diana Johnson in a moment.
:07:50. > :07:54.Firstly, as a party, we are fully committed to the NHS
:07:55. > :08:02.And we would fund the NHS through taking money back
:08:03. > :08:05.from the foreign aid budget, which is at ?14 billion
:08:06. > :08:13.We would take ?9 billion back out and we would put that into the NHS.
:08:14. > :08:16.We need more doctors, we need more nurses.
:08:17. > :08:18.We have grade A students that are not allowed to go
:08:19. > :08:26.There's a cap at the moment at ?7500.
:08:27. > :08:29.That's got to be raised to somewhere like ?10,000.
:08:30. > :08:32.We need more front-line staff and we need to put the money in,
:08:33. > :08:34.and that money's got to come from the foreign aid budget.
:08:35. > :08:37.It's got to be charity begins at home.
:08:38. > :08:41.We've got to put that money into the NHS.
:08:42. > :08:43.We might come back to that later in the programme.
:08:44. > :08:48.Diana Johnson, why should a headteacher or a senior policeman
:08:49. > :08:56.We have an income tax system that means, if you earn more,
:08:57. > :08:59.you pay a bit more, and I think a progressive party,
:09:00. > :09:01.like the Labour Party, believes that, if you're earning
:09:02. > :09:09.When you think the average wage in Hull is about ?20,000,
:09:10. > :09:11.it's fair that those people pay a bit more.
:09:12. > :09:14.Can I just respond to the issue about the corporation tax?
:09:15. > :09:16.Because I think that gentleman's absolutely right.
:09:17. > :09:19.We need to make sure that we support and encourage small businesses,
:09:20. > :09:22.and we don't want to see them having the same high rate of corporation
:09:23. > :09:26.tax is big businesses JD Sports or Amazon or whoever.
:09:27. > :09:29.So I think there would have to be some accommodation to make sure
:09:30. > :09:35.And can I say one other thing about the foreign aid budget?
:09:36. > :09:38.Because I think we need to be clear that we spend nine times
:09:39. > :09:41.as much on the NHS as we do on the foreign aid budget.
:09:42. > :09:50.So if you're actually looking at the figures,
:09:51. > :09:52.it's not going to put that much into the NHS.
:09:53. > :09:55.I'd rather see it going to the NHS than go to China, North Korea
:09:56. > :10:03.Mike Hookem, it was only last year that your leader was saying he wants
:10:04. > :10:07.to privatise the NHS, he'd like to see a privatised NHS!
:10:08. > :10:14.Before you come here, if you do a bit of research,
:10:15. > :10:17.that was actually a hustingss back in 2009 when he said
:10:18. > :10:23.I've got family members that work in the NHS.
:10:24. > :10:31.We have to start looking at what we are paying for.
:10:32. > :10:52.One of the questions which comes up time and time again in e-mails
:10:53. > :10:54.to me just recently is, what is the actual
:10:55. > :11:08.Because every one of the parties you've got sat here today have
:11:09. > :11:11.all campaigned vigorously to stay within the European Union.
:11:12. > :11:14.David Cameron spent ?9.3 million of our money to send
:11:15. > :11:21.But you've got what you set out to do, haven't you?
:11:22. > :11:24.Ukip is there to make sure that the Brexit that we get
:11:25. > :11:27.is the Brexit that we voted for, and all of these parties that you've
:11:28. > :11:33.Theresa May has already started backsliding on social
:11:34. > :11:37.care, on the fisheries, and she will betray you,
:11:38. > :11:39.as Ted Heath betrayed the fishing industries in 73.
:11:40. > :11:44.Gentleman in the blue shirt at the back.
:11:45. > :11:46.Just out of interest, as someone who works,
:11:47. > :11:50.Isn't that's what's supposed to pay for the National Health Service
:11:51. > :11:52.as well as the employee's contribution to the
:11:53. > :11:56.We all contribute an awful lot to a health service
:11:57. > :11:58.that all of us love, regardless of colour,
:11:59. > :12:06.This debate has been going on year after year after year,
:12:07. > :12:13.Every party is trying their hardest to actually sort out a solution
:12:14. > :12:18.Shouldn't we have a cross-party approach to this?
:12:19. > :12:21.And actually work out how to look after the National Health Service
:12:22. > :12:27.Two more quick quotes, and then we'll move on to the next question.
:12:28. > :12:30.Lady at the back in the beige cardigan, I think it is.
:12:31. > :12:33.You've all said that you're going to pour money into the NHS.
:12:34. > :12:36.How do you actually propose to get the GPs and the health care workers
:12:37. > :12:40.to come to this part of the country to do the job?
:12:41. > :12:46.Because we are so short of those sort of people to come to this area.
:12:47. > :12:51.In Lincolnshire, particularly in the rural areas of Lincolnshire,
:12:52. > :12:56.we do have difficulties recruiting GPs and professionals to this
:12:57. > :12:59.I do everything I can to sell Lincolnshire.
:13:00. > :13:03.If you're a medical professional, please come to Lincolnshire
:13:04. > :13:07.But one of the things that Lincolnshire County Council has done
:13:08. > :13:12.is to introduce a ?20,000 golden hello to new GPs
:13:13. > :13:19.And those sorts of initiatives, as well as speaking up for the local
:13:20. > :13:22.area, that I hope will attract more professionals into the county
:13:23. > :13:29.Final comment from this gentleman in the front in the smart suits.
:13:30. > :13:33.Peter, you have four wonderful candidates there, I'm sure.
:13:34. > :13:37.You are all vying for people's votes this evening as well.
:13:38. > :13:39.There are probably people in this audience that don't really
:13:40. > :13:43.know which way to vote on the 8th of June.
:13:44. > :13:45.You were asked question, how you would fund it.
:13:46. > :13:54.You said you would put income tax up by 1p in the pound.
:13:55. > :13:57.But your leader has said it would be significantly more.
:13:58. > :14:00.You, Diana, and the Labour government, if you were
:14:01. > :14:04.in government, would increase tax significantly.
:14:05. > :14:08.I've been self-employed for 34 years.
:14:09. > :14:12.?80,000 is a lot of money compared to ?20,000 for a person
:14:13. > :14:15.who's self-employed, taking all the risks.
:14:16. > :14:19.So what is the point that you're making?
:14:20. > :14:23.?80,000 is not a lot of money for somebody who works 60-80 hours
:14:24. > :14:26.a week and takes all the problems home with them.
:14:27. > :14:29.If you are to increase taxation to that level,
:14:30. > :14:43.Just briefly, ?80,000, people pay 45p, after ?123,000, people pay 50p.
:14:44. > :14:46.Diana Johnson, last word with you on this one.
:14:47. > :14:48.Well, look, no-one wants to stifle employment.
:14:49. > :14:50.Of course we want people to be in jobs.
:14:51. > :14:53.You know, I come from a family that had a self-employed business,
:14:54. > :14:56.so I know how hard people work when they are self-employed.
:14:57. > :15:00.But I do think, as a society, we have to make a choice about how
:15:01. > :15:02.we fund good public services, and actually I think
:15:03. > :15:05.it's the fairest way to say that, if you're earning a high income,
:15:06. > :15:08.then you should pay a little bit more to ensure that we can
:15:09. > :15:14.Let's move on, because we have got a lot of questions, and we will get
:15:15. > :15:19.Just to say, if you are watching, if you want to comment on anything
:15:20. > :15:21.you've heard from the panellists or anything you have
:15:22. > :15:23.heard from the audience, go on to social media,
:15:24. > :15:33.Facebook or Twitter, and this is the hashtag, #ge17eyl.
:15:34. > :15:35.East Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, easier way to remember it.
:15:36. > :15:39.Now, our next question is from Wojciech Pisarski,
:15:40. > :15:41.a retired social care manager from Skegness.
:15:42. > :15:48.Could you tell us what you propose to do about the crisis in social
:15:49. > :15:52.care and the impact it's having on the NHS, keeping people
:15:53. > :15:56.in hospital, stopping their discharges because there is no
:15:57. > :16:04.care for them outside of the hospital?
:16:05. > :16:09.So, I completely agree with you that social care is really important.
:16:10. > :16:12.I think sometimes when we talk about social care, we presume it's
:16:13. > :16:14.all about the older generation, and actually there's
:16:15. > :16:18.lots of people that are needing social care at home.
:16:19. > :16:22.The Lib Dems have said clearly that the penny on income tax we have
:16:23. > :16:24.talked about just now, that would be invested
:16:25. > :16:27.in the NHS and social care, and that we need to bring those two
:16:28. > :16:29.together, because at the moment they don't work
:16:30. > :16:34.We need to bring the NHS and social care together.
:16:35. > :16:37.If you need help with your health and with York are, it shouldn't
:16:38. > :16:40.matter that you go one place for one thing and someone else
:16:41. > :16:46.You need one system that enables you to get the help that
:16:47. > :16:49.you need, where you need it and when you need it.
:16:50. > :16:51.Why have you not put a cap on the cost?
:16:52. > :16:55.We have said there will be a cap on the cost.
:16:56. > :17:00.That dementia tax, I think, is, you know...
:17:01. > :17:08.So, there has been an independent report that advised the Government
:17:09. > :17:11.about what should happen with adult social care,
:17:12. > :17:13.and the Lib Dems have signed up to the independent report,
:17:14. > :17:16.which has a cap of something like 72,000.
:17:17. > :17:22.Well, I think that with social care you have to look very carefully
:17:23. > :17:25.at what happened over the last, well, the last seven years really.
:17:26. > :17:29.4.6 billion has been taken away from councils
:17:30. > :17:33.That's the real problem in all of this, and even
:17:34. > :17:37.the proposals that the Tories have come up with in the last few weeks
:17:38. > :17:39.are not going to tackle the complete underfunding of social
:17:40. > :17:48.We know there's 1.2 million older people who have unmet care needs,
:17:49. > :17:51.and we know the thresholds have gone up for people to be
:17:52. > :17:57.What we need to do, I agree with Claire,
:17:58. > :18:00.is a more integrated approach with the NHS and local councils,
:18:01. > :18:04.And my party has said we would put ?8 billion in over
:18:05. > :18:09.That alongside the 37 billion that we've set to the NHS.
:18:10. > :18:16.We need to make sure that the people who need social
:18:17. > :18:19.care are able to get it, and that's why we have a very clear
:18:20. > :18:24.Yeah, and you talk about paying for it with corporation tax,
:18:25. > :18:27.which the gentleman over there mentioned.
:18:28. > :18:32.Other countries, you know, France, the United States,
:18:33. > :18:38.So why do your party want to put it up?
:18:39. > :18:42.Well, as I said in the contribution I made earlier, we are talking
:18:43. > :18:45.as well about income tax, and if you look at income tax around
:18:46. > :18:48.Europe, we are actually quite low in terms of what we ask individuals
:18:49. > :18:52.to pay, so I think the increases that we've talked about their
:18:53. > :18:56.bring us more into line with European averages.
:18:57. > :19:00.The problem with social care is it's all disjointed.
:19:01. > :19:03.It should be brought in with the NHS.
:19:04. > :19:07.There's thousands of bed days that we've lost per month of people that
:19:08. > :19:16.There's got to be legislation brought in to get people that
:19:17. > :19:19.are laying in the hospital beds that need social care, so legislation
:19:20. > :19:24.It's got to be a long-term funded project,
:19:25. > :19:28.We've got to bring it back together again.
:19:29. > :19:30.At the moment, it's just not working.
:19:31. > :19:32.Victoria Atkins, was this a complete bungle in
:19:33. > :19:40.We didn't get the messaging right, but I think the policy
:19:41. > :19:46.Some people might say it's the first time in history that
:19:47. > :19:50.a manifesto pledge was broken before an election.
:19:51. > :20:00.The important thing is that we are the only party that's
:20:01. > :20:03.come up with a sustainable long-term plan to deal with social care.
:20:04. > :20:07.We have tried to tackle this problem...
:20:08. > :20:09.The sticking plasters that we have at the moment...
:20:10. > :20:11.We've invested a further ?2 billion in social care,
:20:12. > :20:18.We have given councils the ability to charge you a little bit extra
:20:19. > :20:25.That's fine but it's not sustainable and it's not long-term,
:20:26. > :20:28.which is why the Prime Minister has tried to face up to what is one
:20:29. > :20:30.of the greatest challenges facing our nation.
:20:31. > :20:34.That's great, but of course it has implications for social care.
:20:35. > :20:37.So what we are proposing is that we quadruple the amount
:20:38. > :20:48.I may just explain, just to get the messaging right,
:20:49. > :20:51.Peter, you had a giggle at my expense earlier on...
:20:52. > :20:54.The ?23,500 is the policy at the moment.
:20:55. > :20:58.We are quadrupling that to ?100,000, and we are saying
:20:59. > :21:01.to people, you do not have to worry about your bills on a weekly
:21:02. > :21:05.or monthly basis, because this will be deferred until after
:21:06. > :21:09.you and your husband or wife passed away.
:21:10. > :21:11.But you're asking people to vote without telling them
:21:12. > :21:13.what the cap is going to be, though, aren't you?
:21:14. > :21:16.This has to be part of a consultation.
:21:17. > :21:20.This has to be part of the consultation.
:21:21. > :21:24.A wide-ranging public consultation that well, you know, charities
:21:25. > :21:33.I'm going to study there, because a lot of people want to talk.
:21:34. > :21:35.Let me just first of all ask Wojciech if he is
:21:36. > :21:40.I would like to come back to something that Victoria said,
:21:41. > :21:43.in answer to the previous question, about that she believes
:21:44. > :21:51.If you have a low-tax economy, you have poor or no services.
:21:52. > :21:54.You can't reconcile the one and the other.
:21:55. > :21:56.And we are told that we are all living longer -
:21:57. > :22:01.People aren't living longer - there are more people around
:22:02. > :22:04.because there were more people born 60, 70, 80 years ago.
:22:05. > :22:08.But it's a fallacy to say that everyone's are living longer.
:22:09. > :22:12.But I think that's pretty much accepted by the medical...
:22:13. > :22:17.You've got people from Norway, Sweden, France, Germany,
:22:18. > :22:19.who don't have to talk about having a problem
:22:20. > :22:22.about people living longer - they get out and care for them.
:22:23. > :22:26.And this country will not care for them because we don't
:22:27. > :22:34.I mean, we should celebrate the fact that people are living longer.
:22:35. > :22:40.This is one of the great things, the advances of medical science
:22:41. > :22:43.and the National Health Service, but it does create a problem.
:22:44. > :22:48.And one of the big things that, you know, I hope
:22:49. > :22:51.we are going to come to this, Peter, as Bill Clinton's adviser
:22:52. > :22:55.We need to have a strong economy to pay for all of these
:22:56. > :22:58.things like the NHS, like social care, that we all want
:22:59. > :23:05.All we are hearing from a number of the parties is,
:23:06. > :23:09.Labour tried taxing the death out of this country in the 1970s.
:23:10. > :23:13.Since we've reduced corporation tax in the last few years,
:23:14. > :23:17.the tax take has gone up in corporation tax.
:23:18. > :23:19.We need to encourage wealth creation, entrepreneurship,
:23:20. > :23:23.small and medium-sized enterprises, and I know Diana said they wouldn't
:23:24. > :23:26.get stung with the same increase in corporation tax,
:23:27. > :23:31.We need to encourage wealth creation, so we can put this money
:23:32. > :23:35.into social care and into the NHS, and have a sensible debate,
:23:36. > :23:38.as one of the other members of the audience said earlier.
:23:39. > :23:41.Stop throwing, sort of, rotten tomatoes at each other.
:23:42. > :23:45.And say, we all believe in the NHS, let's run it better.
:23:46. > :23:53.When we talk about social care, everyone seems to be
:23:54. > :23:57.I want to mention about younger people, particularly those
:23:58. > :23:59.with disabilities in our area, who are being failed
:24:00. > :24:02.by the Government and the Government cuts.
:24:03. > :24:05.Are the panel aware that there is a 12-month waiting list just
:24:06. > :24:10.to get a basic educational health care plan for young people?
:24:11. > :24:14.A four-page document and 12 months' wait for parents to try to have
:24:15. > :24:18.access to help their children in school with social care.
:24:19. > :24:27.The subject of social care is a very emotive one
:24:28. > :24:33.A lot of people talk about it, and it was on our People's Manifesto
:24:34. > :24:36.as one of the subjects that you feel very passionately about.
:24:37. > :24:39.If you want to comment on that, if you go onto Facebook or Twitter,
:24:40. > :24:45.We look forward to getting your comments on what we have heard
:24:46. > :24:48.from the panellists tonight on BBC One and also
:24:49. > :24:52.Now, our next question is from Arjun Gandhi,
:24:53. > :24:55.who is a student in Hull, and a first-time voter.
:24:56. > :25:04.I've been a lifelong Conservative myself,
:25:05. > :25:06.but I have rather been disappointed by the rhetoric coming
:25:07. > :25:09.from the Conservative establishment in wake of the Manchester attack.
:25:10. > :25:11.So, is there any candidate here who can promise the British
:25:12. > :25:14.people that immigration numbers will come down, and at the same time
:25:15. > :25:17.we will be having more stringent background checks for asylum seekers
:25:18. > :25:19.and people coming into our country from high-risk nations?
:25:20. > :25:21.Let's go quickly to the panel on this one.
:25:22. > :25:25.Well, I think because of the decision last year
:25:26. > :25:27.around leaving the EU, we know that we will,
:25:28. > :25:29.for the first time, have the opportunity to think again
:25:30. > :25:33.about our immigration policy in this country.
:25:34. > :25:37.Clearly we are part of the single market at the moment,
:25:38. > :25:39.so there is the free movement of labour, but when we leave,
:25:40. > :25:42.that will allow us, as a country, to decide what immigration policy
:25:43. > :25:47.Now, the Conservatives have said that they wanted to get the figures
:25:48. > :25:49.down to the tens of thousands, and that hasn't happened.
:25:50. > :25:55.I'm not a supporter of any free market.
:25:56. > :25:58.I think there should be regulation in all markets,
:25:59. > :26:00.and I think there should be regulation in the immigration
:26:01. > :26:04.So I think this is an opportunity for us.
:26:05. > :26:07.There's lots of talk about the Australian points system,
:26:08. > :26:10.that people seem to think would be an appropriate method for us
:26:11. > :26:12.to have in this country, but that's the debate
:26:13. > :26:16.we are going to be having over the next two years,
:26:17. > :26:19.as we decide as a country what we want to do with immigration,
:26:20. > :26:22.what our needs are, and especially in an area like East Yorkshire
:26:23. > :26:24.and North Lincolnshire, where we know that there are needs
:26:25. > :26:27.sometimes for seasonal workers to come to the area,
:26:28. > :26:33.and I think that's going to be a very interesting debate over
:26:34. > :26:37.Can you just clarify, will the freedom of movement
:26:38. > :26:41.The previous Government have said that...
:26:42. > :26:43.No, I'm not talking about the previous Government,
:26:44. > :26:48.Because it's in your manifesto, isn't it?
:26:49. > :26:51.Well, basically, the debate is going to be about what the deal
:26:52. > :26:55.Now, the Tories have said they will come out of the single
:26:56. > :27:01.As the Labour Party, we want to get the best deal we can,
:27:02. > :27:03.but I certainly acknowledge, and the party acknowledges,
:27:04. > :27:06.that immigration was one of the key issues in the referendum last year,
:27:07. > :27:10.We have to make sure that is part of the debate.
:27:11. > :27:13.But it says it will end in your manifesto, doesn't it?
:27:14. > :27:15.Well, if we come out of the single market,
:27:16. > :27:17.yeah, free movement of labour ends, yes.
:27:18. > :27:25.We pack mass migration into this country, where a city the size
:27:26. > :27:29.Within three years, a city the size of Birmingham
:27:30. > :27:38.We have to go into an Australian-style policy,
:27:39. > :27:41.and we have to know who comes in and who goes out.
:27:42. > :27:44.You know, a lot of these people that come in and commit these atrocities
:27:45. > :27:46.have travelled to Syria, to Iraq, to Afghanistan,
:27:47. > :27:48.for training, and then slipped back in.
:27:49. > :27:51.I was probably the first politician who spent five weeks in Calais
:27:52. > :27:54.in the Jungle last year, and looked at the problem there,
:27:55. > :27:58.lived amongst these people, looked at what they were doing,
:27:59. > :28:01.and how easy it was at that point to get in.
:28:02. > :28:04.British truck drivers asked me to go over there
:28:05. > :28:06.because they were in fear of their life of what
:28:07. > :28:08.was going on there, and when they were climbing
:28:09. > :28:10.on the back of these vehicles and getting in.
:28:11. > :28:13.I travelled to Brussels and I went through King George
:28:14. > :28:20.I travelled out there on the ferry and I travelled back on the ferry.
:28:21. > :28:23.And I was told by border control, morale is low, funding is low,
:28:24. > :28:26.there is no infrastructure there, and they are really
:28:27. > :28:30.This is an open door for these people, who are just coming in,
:28:31. > :28:35.We've got to stop that and we've got to know who is coming in.
:28:36. > :28:40.You need a certain amount of immigration, but you need people
:28:41. > :28:42.that have got the skills that we need.
:28:43. > :28:48.We've got enough of those people here now to do those jobs.
:28:49. > :28:51.We have to know who is coming in, and it's a big problem,
:28:52. > :28:54.and I believe Ukip is the only party that is committed to stopping this.
:28:55. > :29:00.Well, immigration, the message from the referendum last year
:29:01. > :29:02.was that people want to take control of immigration.
:29:03. > :29:06.She was Home Secretary for six years and she knows just how difficult
:29:07. > :29:11.Some people seem to give the impression there
:29:12. > :29:14.is a silver bullet to solving the issues of immigration.
:29:15. > :29:20.As Home Secretary, she failed miserably.
:29:21. > :29:24.But that's the point, Mike, it's that you...
:29:25. > :29:26.Please don't make promises about immigration, that it's
:29:27. > :29:33.What we want to do is to lower it to the tens of thousands.
:29:34. > :29:36.That hasn't been possible with membership of the European Union.
:29:37. > :29:38.When we come out of the European Union, we are leaving
:29:39. > :29:41.the single market and so on, and so we can take
:29:42. > :29:47.I'll just add this as a slight nuance.
:29:48. > :29:50.I represent one of the most rural constituencies in the country,
:29:51. > :29:52.in Lincolnshire, the county that feeds the country,
:29:53. > :29:59.You know, we have to be a little bit careful that we don't place
:30:00. > :30:02.the farming industry in the position where vegetables
:30:03. > :30:04.are lying unpicked in fields, because we follow Ukip's abrupt
:30:05. > :30:11.policy of just putting an end to it...
:30:12. > :30:14.It was picked before we went into the European Union.
:30:15. > :30:17.It will be picked again, because we will bring a visa system in.
:30:18. > :30:21.Where they come in for the season, pick the vegetables and then leave.
:30:22. > :30:23.We might come back to this in just a moment.
:30:24. > :30:29.It's not as clear-cut as others would perhaps have you believe.
:30:30. > :30:32.Claire Thomas, and then I'll come back to you,
:30:33. > :30:35.I just want to challenge the assumption of the question,
:30:36. > :30:38.and I'm sure you didn't mean this, but the assumption that
:30:39. > :30:39.immigration is the reason that terrorism happens,
:30:40. > :30:41.I just don't think that is the right assumption.
:30:42. > :30:44.Arjun, would you like to clarify that for us?
:30:45. > :30:46.I do quite think that immigration does play quite a role
:30:47. > :30:49.in the terrorist attacks that are happening in this country.
:30:50. > :30:51.It is obviously not the only reason a terrorist attack happens,
:30:52. > :30:54.but we have to be more stringent with the background checks,
:30:55. > :30:56.with people coming into our country from high-risk nations.
:30:57. > :31:00.The Prime Minister in her role as the Home Secretary has absolutely
:31:01. > :31:03.failed in bringing the immigration numbers down, so how do I end up
:31:04. > :31:07.Forgive me, if I may correct you on one thing,
:31:08. > :31:09.of course I don't want to comment on a live investigation,
:31:10. > :31:11.but we know, sadly, the murderer of last week,
:31:12. > :31:15.I'm not going to name him because I don't want to give him
:31:16. > :31:16.the glory, but we know he was British-born,
:31:17. > :31:20.which is why we have to treat the issue of terrorism carefully.
:31:21. > :31:23.But he travelled to Syria for training.
:31:24. > :31:26.We have to deal with that carefully and I just think, at the moment,
:31:27. > :31:29.it's very sensitive, but I will just make that point.
:31:30. > :31:35.As Home Secretary, she introduced ranges of measures.
:31:36. > :31:39.We closed hundreds of sham colleges that were set up simply to bring
:31:40. > :31:49.We have tackled sham marriages as well, and we have...
:31:50. > :31:52.She, as Home Secretary, kept trying different
:31:53. > :31:54.methods to keep immigration down, but we...
:31:55. > :31:57.The point of immigration, when people come to this country
:31:58. > :32:01.to work, it is because we are a very attractive country in
:32:02. > :32:06.And so that is why immigration has gone up and down over the years,
:32:07. > :32:09.but the key to it would be making sure that we can form our
:32:10. > :32:13.migration policy as we wish when we leave Europe.
:32:14. > :32:14.Victoria, thank you very much indeed.
:32:15. > :32:21.Our next question is sort of connected and follows on.
:32:22. > :32:27.How will you decide who stays and who goes after Brexit?
:32:28. > :32:30.It's not fair for EU migrants in Hull and East Yorkshire,
:32:31. > :32:34.who come here to work and contribute to society, to be sent
:32:35. > :32:45.Those that have come here under the EU laws are here legally,
:32:46. > :32:48.You know, those that come in the future,
:32:49. > :32:51.when the negotiations are settled, when Theresa May comes back
:32:52. > :32:54.with that piece of paper saying a deal in our time,
:32:55. > :32:58.you know, then we will know who is coming and he was going.
:32:59. > :33:01.At the moment, they are here legally, so we cannot throw them
:33:02. > :33:03.out and we would not want to throw them out.
:33:04. > :33:07.They are here legally, so it's all dependent on what deal
:33:08. > :33:17.The Prime Minister has made clear that negotiating the position of EU
:33:18. > :33:21.nationals in the UK and of British nationals in the rest of the EU
:33:22. > :33:27.is an absolute priority, when the Brexit negotiations
:33:28. > :33:30.After the general election, the Brexit negotiations
:33:31. > :33:35.That is why it is so critical that we have a Prime Minister
:33:36. > :33:39.who will be absolutely up to speed, and will be able to conduct those
:33:40. > :33:42.But the question was, how will you decide
:33:43. > :33:48.That will be in the hands of all of the EU leaders,
:33:49. > :33:55.I think, in fairness, there's quite a...
:33:56. > :33:57.There is a lot of goodwill on both sides on this issue,
:33:58. > :34:01.but we have made it clear that this must settled as a priority,
:34:02. > :34:04.as and when the negotiations start in just over two weeks' time.
:34:05. > :34:12.I don't know why the Government hasn't already said
:34:13. > :34:21.Something like 10% of our GPs are immigrants, so, you know,
:34:22. > :34:24.we've just talked about the NHS and the importance of having
:34:25. > :34:30.Actually, if we try to get rid of immigration, we put a lot
:34:31. > :34:35.We have just talked about the importance of that.
:34:36. > :34:38.Let's go to Diana and then we will take some comments.
:34:39. > :34:40.So, the Labour Party has been very clear that EU
:34:41. > :34:43.nationals who are currently here are welcome to stay.
:34:44. > :34:47.We think that's actually a good start to any negotiations that
:34:48. > :34:51.commence after the general election, because we are acting in good faith
:34:52. > :34:57.when we work with or negotiate with the other 27 countries,
:34:58. > :35:00.because we obviously have British nationals living in those countries,
:35:01. > :35:02.and we want to see a good deal for them.
:35:03. > :35:06.I couldn't actually see any mention of immigration in your manifesto.
:35:07. > :35:10.Well, the discussion around immigration is in the manifesto,
:35:11. > :35:14.and it's around, for instance, the undercutting of local workers.
:35:15. > :35:18.We want to make sure that there is proper enforcement
:35:19. > :35:21.action for bad employers who employ people from EU countries and don't
:35:22. > :35:28.We have made that very clear we want to stop that.
:35:29. > :35:31.We want to stop bringing over gangs of people from particular countries.
:35:32. > :35:33.We think that's wrong, where they are using
:35:34. > :35:37.Sorry, but it was the Labour Party that said...
:35:38. > :35:40.Peter Mandelson, one of your people, who actually said, we didn't
:35:41. > :35:43.go looking for them - we sent search parties out for them.
:35:44. > :35:50.The gentleman in the blue shirt there.
:35:51. > :35:52.Yeah, just a quick question on immigration.
:35:53. > :35:57.If all I have read is correct, I believe that, is it
:35:58. > :36:00.still 50% of all immigration to the United Kingdom is not coming
:36:01. > :36:03.from the European Union anyway, so I suppose, to answer the guy down
:36:04. > :36:06.on the front row there, the other 50% of immigrants
:36:07. > :36:10.who are coming in will get affected by the EU conversation anyway.
:36:11. > :36:12.And also, with regard to the National Health Service,
:36:13. > :36:16.it would be quite nice to have an intelligent answer
:36:17. > :36:19.to the strain on education and the National Health Service.
:36:20. > :36:22.What strain is being caused by the immigration at the moment,
:36:23. > :36:24.hence we need more immigrant doctors and teachers?
:36:25. > :36:31.I keep hearing some of the parties commenting that, you know,
:36:32. > :36:34.The present Government should show their hand before
:36:35. > :36:44.Why would you do, like one of the parties has already done,
:36:45. > :36:47.by their leader, who has already said, if we don't get a good
:36:48. > :36:49.deal, we'll come back and have a referendum?
:36:50. > :36:53.You're not going to get a good deal from Europe if we go in with that,
:36:54. > :36:59.Food is essential for our national security, and Victoria's the only
:37:00. > :37:08.We do need foreign labour within our agricultural sector.
:37:09. > :37:11.I think for us all to have affordable food, we need to be able
:37:12. > :37:23.But are you reassured by what you've heard?
:37:24. > :37:27.Victoria made the point that the European Union...
:37:28. > :37:30.We'll be having discussions with the European Union in 11
:37:31. > :37:33.That's perfectly fine, but, as we've heard from Europe,
:37:34. > :37:36.they are not going to decide on anything to do with
:37:37. > :37:38.migrants until well after the deal is sorted out.
:37:39. > :37:43.Final comment from the gentleman there.
:37:44. > :37:46.Regarding this question again, one in four doctors are migrants,
:37:47. > :37:51.Since we left Brexit, 40% of European doctors have already
:37:52. > :37:58.So all your policies about trying to have a points system and so on,
:37:59. > :38:01.there may be some merit in it, but the reality is you going to lose
:38:02. > :38:04.a lot more skilled workforce in the next two years,
:38:05. > :38:08.And Mike, you seem to be speaking for Conservatives already by saying
:38:09. > :38:10.when Theresa May comes back and signed the deal.
:38:11. > :38:15.You may as well move your chair over there!
:38:16. > :38:19.A lot of our policies they have pinched anyway.
:38:20. > :38:21.We either talk about migrants or immigrants,
:38:22. > :38:29.Immigrants come from Pakistan India, and I can tell you the immigrants
:38:30. > :38:32.from Pakistan India have to jump through more hoops to get into this
:38:33. > :38:36.country that are migrants from Eastern Europe.
:38:37. > :38:42.We want to make a level playing field for everybody around the world
:38:43. > :38:44.to come to this country with the skills that we want.
:38:45. > :38:48.Doctors, nurses come to this country with the skills that we need.
:38:49. > :38:50.A level playing field, that's what we are asking for.
:38:51. > :38:53.Of course, there are some parts of country where you're not actually
:38:54. > :38:55.putting up a candidate because you know the Conservatives
:38:56. > :39:00.We're not putting up a candidate because we are targeting seats.
:39:01. > :39:10.Until I realised you don't support me.
:39:11. > :39:19.This is Bob Callison, who is from Cleethorpes.
:39:20. > :39:21.He owns a construction company and runs a small hotel.
:39:22. > :39:27.How do you propose to get the best deal for Britain
:39:28. > :39:43.By having Theresa May as our Prime Minister.
:39:44. > :39:48.All joking apart, the negotiations start 11 days after the general
:39:49. > :39:54.election, and I'm not going to be personal about Jeremy Corbyn, he's
:39:55. > :39:58.devoted his life to public surface, but the fact that Diana
:39:59. > :40:03.and many of her colleagues stepped down, did the honourable thing,
:40:04. > :40:07.in my view, and resigned from the shadow ministerial team
:40:08. > :40:11.last summer because they felt Jeremy Corbyn wasn't up to the job
:40:12. > :40:16.of leading the Labour Party I think leaves very great concerns
:40:17. > :40:21.about whether or not he's capable of being a good Prime Minister.
:40:22. > :40:24.Let's go through the panel really quickly on this one and then we've
:40:25. > :40:36.I think the idea that Theresa May is going to get us the best deal
:40:37. > :40:39.is just laughable given that she's ready just change the mind about
:40:40. > :40:43.She's negotiated on a European level as Home Secretary.
:40:44. > :40:50.Everybody said, oh, no, you'll never manage to get it negotiated,
:40:51. > :40:52.you'll never get 28 member states to agree.
:40:53. > :40:56.She did, and it's one of the key tributes in keeping us safe.
:40:57. > :41:00.I think the idea that Theresa May is going to be this strong
:41:01. > :41:02.and stable character, she is actually weak and wobbly
:41:03. > :41:06.So I want to make sure that when the deal is being negotiated
:41:07. > :41:09.around Brexit, this part of the country is not left out
:41:10. > :41:12.because often, I have to say, over the last seven years,
:41:13. > :41:14.the Liberal Democrats and the Tories have forgotten
:41:15. > :41:20.So I want to make sure that whoever is representing the constituencies
:41:21. > :41:22.in this area stands up for the industries round here
:41:23. > :41:26.and Siemens and the investment they've made and renewables,
:41:27. > :41:33.because that's really big important industry for us.
:41:34. > :41:48.It is no deal better than a bad deal? No deal would be dreadful. As
:41:49. > :41:53.a party, we believe if we repealed the communities act, they would be
:41:54. > :41:57.out straightaway. We are negotiating and the Armitt dictating to us our
:41:58. > :42:02.terms. I sit on committees in Brussels and they do not want us to
:42:03. > :42:06.leave. 12% of the funding comes from this country, that is a huge hole
:42:07. > :42:16.they have got to fill. They do not want us to leave. Article 50 is
:42:17. > :42:22.nothing more than a delaying tactic. Repeal the 72 communities act and
:42:23. > :42:28.come out straightaway. Theresa May took nine months to revoke Article
:42:29. > :42:37.50. I did say quickly. Fabulous audience and panel. Thank you very
:42:38. > :42:45.much indeed. Thanks to the audience. The debate continues until election
:42:46. > :42:50.day. If you want to go on to Twitter or Facebook and send your messages,
:42:51. > :43:02.tweets and texts with your comments, we would love to hear from you.
:43:03. > :43:15.Thank you very much indeed for watching. See you soon. Good night.
:43:16. > :43:26.Very disappointing to hear Ukip and conservatives will only commit small
:43:27. > :43:32.amount. What we do need is qualified people. We will never turn our backs
:43:33. > :43:36.on doctors and nurses. What we have to do is control it. There needs to
:43:37. > :43:42.be a policy to bring people in who will do specific jobs in this
:43:43. > :43:46.country that we need. But not for people just coming willy-nilly. That
:43:47. > :43:50.was the point that the panellists were trying to come across with but
:43:51. > :43:55.was not clear. I was disappointed with some of the answers. Some were
:43:56. > :43:57.vague. Good questions were asked but on a lot of issues, it was very
:43:58. > :44:03.wishy-washy. Hear the arguments
:44:04. > :44:06.from the politicians themselves.