:00:29. > :00:52.home with my parents. Not enough funding for the NHS.
:00:53. > :00:59.Here we are with a panel of leading London politicians and an
:01:00. > :01:04.enthusiastic audience, champing at the bit. Let's go to our first
:01:05. > :01:08.question, from Qasim Majid. Unfortunately, over the last few
:01:09. > :01:13.weeks and months, we have seen some disgusting attacks, in London and in
:01:14. > :01:16.Manchester, which is where I am originally from. This has left me
:01:17. > :01:19.and I'm sure many other individuals in the audience very scared about
:01:20. > :01:24.the prospect of further attacks. Therefore I would like to ask today
:01:25. > :01:29.what policies the parties will be introducing to prevent such attacks
:01:30. > :01:35.both in London and across the UK. Diane Abbott, we will start with you
:01:36. > :01:39.- what do you do? I think, as you said, the most important thing is to
:01:40. > :01:45.keep people safe. And one of the policies that in our manifesto is to
:01:46. > :01:51.recruit 10,000 more police officers. And we're doing that because
:01:52. > :01:56.actually, under Theresa May's watch, we have lost 20,000 police officers.
:01:57. > :02:00.Although you might say, what have police officers got to do with
:02:01. > :02:05.fighting terrorism, I think community policing can help in
:02:06. > :02:12.getting that information. How many of those 10,000 are for London? I'm
:02:13. > :02:15.not sure, that will be a matter... The amount people have in their
:02:16. > :02:21.police area will be a matter for the chief constable and for the PCC.
:02:22. > :02:26.Would London get half of them, say debutants a matter for the chief
:02:27. > :02:30.constables. I just want to go forward and talk about the
:02:31. > :02:35.Government's anti-terrorism strategies, and I wants to talk
:02:36. > :02:45.about Prevent. Can we stick on police numbers just for now, before
:02:46. > :02:48.we go back to Prevent? We are very clear that we're going to protect
:02:49. > :02:51.the police budget and actually, numbers in London have not gone
:02:52. > :03:00.down. We are putting more people into MI5, MI6, GCHQ. They have gone
:03:01. > :03:04.down since 2010? No. Jane Corbyn has voted against every single piece of
:03:05. > :03:08.anti-terror legislation, under this government and previous governance.
:03:09. > :03:14.Diane herself has previously suggested that we should abolish
:03:15. > :03:17.MI5. It gives us a very clear choice between Theresa May and Jeremy
:03:18. > :03:23.Corbyn. Go on, Diane. I'm not sure whether Gavin was in the department
:03:24. > :03:28.at the time, but much of that legislation which Jeremy and I voted
:03:29. > :03:32.against was also voted against by the Conservative Party. Theresa May
:03:33. > :03:39.voted against the 2005 adventure of Terrorism Act, she voted against ID
:03:40. > :03:43.cards and she voted against control orders without proper court
:03:44. > :03:47.supervision. The point is this - it is easy to list legislation which
:03:48. > :03:51.people voted on, but that legislation which myself and a lot
:03:52. > :03:55.of the Tory party voted against we felt was counter-productive,
:03:56. > :04:06.learning the lessons from Northern Ireland. We voted for... There was
:04:07. > :04:10.an attempt to have 90 day detention, 42 days without detention, we voted
:04:11. > :04:15.against that. But we voted for 28 days. Let's go back to the question
:04:16. > :04:21.from Qasim Majid - how do we stop what happened in Manchester
:04:22. > :04:24.happening again? You need very strong security services, they have
:04:25. > :04:28.been effective in the past, large numbers of potential attacks have
:04:29. > :04:33.been foiled and we need to give them our full support. It is worth
:04:34. > :04:39.remembering that the former head of MI6 and the head of MI5 warned
:04:40. > :04:43.before these outrages the risk if we left Europe of the break up of
:04:44. > :04:49.sharing intelligence with other European countries, because this is
:04:50. > :04:54.not just a British problem. So we have to have that degree of
:04:55. > :04:58.compression. You know full well that that kind of intelligence is always
:04:59. > :05:03.shared as a matter of course anyway, it is nothing to do with Brexit,
:05:04. > :05:08.adding rank sum into this is disgraceful. I brought it in because
:05:09. > :05:12.the two retiring heads, who were there when I was a member of the
:05:13. > :05:16.Cabinet, went out their way to make this warning, and we should be
:05:17. > :05:21.listening. This is outrageous. The question was, how can we stop people
:05:22. > :05:27.feeling scared? When you see what happened in do, and what happened in
:05:28. > :05:31.Westminster, all of us travelling on the tube every day, it is really
:05:32. > :05:34.hard not to feel scared. We need to reassure people that everything is
:05:35. > :05:36.being done. What I think is that the police need more resources, but it
:05:37. > :05:41.is really important where those resources go. Police have been
:05:42. > :05:44.warning about cutbacks, they say specifically that the best
:05:45. > :05:48.intelligence comes from communities, not from things like blanket
:05:49. > :05:54.surveillance, but from police firmly rooted in communities who can be
:05:55. > :05:59.called upon. And the Prevent strategy doesn't currently do that.
:06:00. > :06:03.Qasim Majid, you asked the question, do you find any of this convincing?
:06:04. > :06:09.I would just like to talk about police numbers. I am no expert on
:06:10. > :06:14.this, but the two commissioners came out in the wake of the Manchester
:06:15. > :06:19.attack and said that this was not due to a lack of resources. So I
:06:20. > :06:30.think it is incorrect to make a political message over the misery of
:06:31. > :06:37.our people. 2000 police officers in London -- 22,000, down from 33,020
:06:38. > :06:41.ten? We have had cutbacks, we used to have three officers and three PCO
:06:42. > :06:46.is in every council ward. Recently the mayor has doubled it, but we
:06:47. > :06:49.only had one. I am in local counsellor and I know the lack of
:06:50. > :06:57.contact which we had. The person was changing every six months. Police
:06:58. > :07:02.numbers in London have held up and up to 2020, the spending review
:07:03. > :07:06.protects police funding. Labour's position, Andy Burnham was arguing
:07:07. > :07:09.for a 10% reduction. So, it is very important that we retain police
:07:10. > :07:15.resources. You need more than that. We have budgeted for 20,000
:07:16. > :07:20.policemen. You might like to write these figures down, Diane, that will
:07:21. > :07:25.cost about 1.3 billion. It is not about that, we are talking about
:07:26. > :07:30.23,000 jihadists in Britain who have been under surveillance now or in
:07:31. > :07:33.the past. People are amazed that, for example, the attacker in
:07:34. > :07:38.Manchester can go out of the country and then come back in and have an
:07:39. > :07:44.attack. There is obviously a lack of will. We have got to have a proper
:07:45. > :07:49.Border Force, with 4000 more people. I don't know about 23,000, but there
:07:50. > :07:52.has been talk of 500 active investigations, 6000 people who
:07:53. > :07:56.should be on the list. What do you think about how to deal with those
:07:57. > :07:57.people? I want to know when we're going to stop selling arms to Saudi
:07:58. > :08:09.Arabia. And exporting... All around the
:08:10. > :08:14.world. I think that is our biggest issue. President Trump is curtsying
:08:15. > :08:21.to the Saudis and we are America's biggest allies, they're laughing at
:08:22. > :08:24.us. This gentleman here. What do you think should be done? Remember, we
:08:25. > :08:30.are talking about measures to stop terrorism which go beyond police
:08:31. > :08:37.numbers? Going beyond police numbers, this, was a Libyan. I am
:08:38. > :08:46.Libyan heritage as well, and I can tell you there are real problems to
:08:47. > :08:50.do with foreign policy. 2011, when there was a bombing campaign to get
:08:51. > :08:54.rid of Gaddafi, it was great in one sense, Gaddafi was removed. But it
:08:55. > :09:01.left a chaotic country, and thereafter, we had basically Isis
:09:02. > :09:03.growing up, jihadi groups, the country was left in tatters. And
:09:04. > :09:11.that was due to the Conservative Party. Does your party accept that
:09:12. > :09:17.some of the things that were done, the bobbing campaign in Libya, for
:09:18. > :09:22.example, might be to blame, in the background? I think these foreign
:09:23. > :09:25.policy questions those real difficulties, because we intervened
:09:26. > :09:30.because Gaddafi was about to murder thousands of innocent civilians. We
:09:31. > :09:34.see what the Assad regime is doing in Syria, and we stood by and
:09:35. > :09:38.allowed it to happen. There is a real challenge about what we do to
:09:39. > :09:41.reconstruct afterwards, and I would accept the point made by the
:09:42. > :09:47.gentleman. Jeremy Corbyn was making this point the other day... What he
:09:48. > :09:52.did not acknowledge, Afghanistan, if we had not intervened me is, we
:09:53. > :09:59.would have allowed a terrorist organisation free space. The way you
:10:00. > :10:07.don't make people safer is by Stinnett icing entire communities.
:10:08. > :10:11.That is not... -- stigmatising entire communities. On the question
:10:12. > :10:15.of some of our international interventions, like Iraq,
:10:16. > :10:19.Afghanistan, Libya and the terror we see on our streets, of course, the
:10:20. > :10:27.people responsible for the terrorism are murderers, violent jihadists.
:10:28. > :10:30.But there is no question that the war in Iraq, the intervention in
:10:31. > :10:37.Libya, left that region a more unstable place, and literally left
:10:38. > :10:43.failed states in which jihadis could organise. I'm not saying this, Eliza
:10:44. > :10:53.Manning, former head of MI5, said it. I did not vote for it, as you
:10:54. > :10:58.may know. The fact is, can you tell me, in Sweden, there was a terrible
:10:59. > :11:04.attack recently - what was it about Swedish foreign policy that brought
:11:05. > :11:07.that attacked on them? Vince Cable? There is a massive difference
:11:08. > :11:11.between looking for explanations and foreign policy might be part of
:11:12. > :11:18.that, and avoiding excuses and justification. And there is
:11:19. > :11:21.absolutely no justification or excuse for resorting to terrorism,
:11:22. > :11:27.whatever the underlying cause. That distinction must be made clear. So,
:11:28. > :11:31.you don't think about the wars in the background, it is just a
:11:32. > :11:36.policing matter? I voted against the Iraq war, and one reason I did so
:11:37. > :11:40.was that we were warned that it would stir up instability and to
:11:41. > :11:44.promote terrorism. People like Boris Johnson acknowledged that publicly.
:11:45. > :11:46.To what extent do you say, it was not just that person, it was
:11:47. > :11:57.something else going on behind them? There's no question that the flames,
:11:58. > :12:01.we need to be investigating and condemning the people who do the
:12:02. > :12:05.crimes, but the region is a mess and we have to take our responsibility
:12:06. > :12:12.for the mess we caused. Like Jeremy Corbyn, like Vince Cable, stop the
:12:13. > :12:18.war marches, it's something we put in leaflets in 2003, if you do this,
:12:19. > :12:22.you create instability in the region and room for jihadists, which has
:12:23. > :12:26.happened. When you talk about this, it is excusing them in a way, even
:12:27. > :12:33.though it is done nicely. These jihadists people in Isis, they threw
:12:34. > :12:37.guys like me, gay guys, office buildings. What has got to do with
:12:38. > :12:41.foreign policy way they treat women? Nothing. I want to move onto another
:12:42. > :12:44.subject. We will move on the way they treat women? Nothing. I want to
:12:45. > :12:47.move onto another subject. We will move onto housing if we can. I know
:12:48. > :12:51.what we've just been discussing. Charlie Crossfield? I am currently
:12:52. > :12:56.spending a large amount of my income on rent. I would review like to
:12:57. > :12:59.purchase a property in London and am saving for a deposit that buying
:13:00. > :13:04.always seemed out of reach. What would your government do to help
:13:05. > :13:11.people like me? What are you? A management consultant, 25. And you
:13:12. > :13:18.can't yourself ever buying a house? Eventually, yes. But I think the
:13:19. > :13:21.prices in London are so high at the moment it's hard to consider. We
:13:22. > :13:26.have the Minister of Housing here. He might never buy a house. I wake
:13:27. > :13:28.up every day thinking about what I can do to help people like you.
:13:29. > :13:34.LAUGHTER Why does that get a laugh? I don't
:13:35. > :13:37.know. This problem has been 30 or 40 years in the making. Governments of
:13:38. > :13:42.both colours haven't built enough homes, which is fundamentally made
:13:43. > :13:45.Housing less affordable. There is a long-term solution, to build the
:13:46. > :13:49.homes we desperately need, of all kinds. Our manifesto has a higher
:13:50. > :13:53.house-building target than the Labour Party. You've been in power
:13:54. > :13:56.for quite awhile and Boris Johnson was the Mayor of London. It's
:13:57. > :14:03.important to be honest. We inherited a house-building level of 130,000 a
:14:04. > :14:09.year and we have built up to 190,000. We have made progress, but
:14:10. > :14:13.I accept we need to do better. In London? They are up but they need to
:14:14. > :14:16.be higher. The long-term solution is build the homes we desperately need.
:14:17. > :14:21.In the short-term, we need to help people right now. Banning letting
:14:22. > :14:24.agents from charging upfront fees from tenants to help people like you
:14:25. > :14:27.in the rental sector. Shared ownership, schemes like that, the
:14:28. > :14:31.help to buy scheme in London that can help people get on the ladder.
:14:32. > :14:41.It is a huge task that we have to make up for this failure over or 40
:14:42. > :14:43.years. The Prime Minister is personally committed to ensuring
:14:44. > :14:45.people like you that are working hard, doing the right thing, should
:14:46. > :14:48.have the chance to own your home. I'm trying to read Charlie's
:14:49. > :14:52.expression. I don't know if you feel it will happen or not. I think
:14:53. > :14:56.banning things like letting these are important but it is a plaster...
:14:57. > :15:00.I see a lot of expensive homes being built but not affordable homes being
:15:01. > :15:05.built. Vince Cable, you know London well. One needs to happen to allow a
:15:06. > :15:09.20-something to buy a house? You need a massive increase in supply,
:15:10. > :15:12.that's a fundamental problem. In the past I think we have relied too
:15:13. > :15:16.heavily on the private sector to do this alone and they will only build
:15:17. > :15:22.if rents and house prices are going up. So you do need the public sector
:15:23. > :15:25.to be more engaged. We need councils to be building houses again for rent
:15:26. > :15:30.and sale, and to do that they need to have more freedom, we're in a
:15:31. > :15:34.ridiculous situation at the moment where councils can borrow money to
:15:35. > :15:38.invest in commercial property speculation in other parts of the
:15:39. > :15:43.country but not allowed to borrow to build houses. Completely insane. If
:15:44. > :15:46.you were in power, with great respect... That was your chance to
:15:47. > :15:50.do it. Indeed come and we should have done a great deal more, I
:15:51. > :15:53.accept that. There were other things happening, particularly in the
:15:54. > :15:59.rental sector. There were large amounts of development is going up
:16:00. > :16:01.along the river in London. They are unoccupied and will remain
:16:02. > :16:06.unoccupied, it's just investment property, not for the likes of you.
:16:07. > :16:12.We have to have some kind of control on that, by having penal council tax
:16:13. > :16:16.on properties that are not used and equally stopping letting agents from
:16:17. > :16:21.advertising overseas before they can advertise in the UK. Diane Abbott,
:16:22. > :16:26.how is it that we have a situation where a flat is built and someone in
:16:27. > :16:30.Singapore buys it, they have no intention of living in it at all,
:16:31. > :16:35.it's simply an investment, they are not even going to let it out. How
:16:36. > :16:39.does that happen? Well, it's because of deregulation in my view. Just to
:16:40. > :16:44.say, you've raised a very important point. You have to have a salary of
:16:45. > :16:49.59,000 to afford to rent anything in zones one and two. It's not just a
:16:50. > :16:53.problem for you but for employers. NHS London has the highest turnover
:16:54. > :16:56.of anywhere in the country because nurses, doctors, professional people
:16:57. > :17:01.on reasonable salaries cannot afford to live in London. What do you do?
:17:02. > :17:07.Three things. We do have to look at this question of people buying from
:17:08. > :17:11.overseas, buying off plan and leaving it empty. I live in Dalston.
:17:12. > :17:16.Once upon a time Dalston was a very regular place. I've got tower blocks
:17:17. > :17:21.now and that my time there are no lights on, because they've all been
:17:22. > :17:24.bought overseas. How do you stop that? Everyone says it's a problem.
:17:25. > :17:29.There's one in Vauxhall, the lights are out or through the winter. How
:17:30. > :17:37.do you stop it? As Vince says, we need to work in London with American
:17:38. > :17:41.London and look at what can be done. He is Labour. That's why we will
:17:42. > :17:46.work with him, vertically when we win on the 8th of June! CHEERING AND
:17:47. > :17:50.APPLAUSE But also we want to look at the
:17:51. > :17:56.levels of rent, because the levels of rent are astronomic and we're
:17:57. > :18:00.looking at some kind of rent control. The other thing is to build
:18:01. > :18:03.more houses. When the Tories talk about building houses they talk
:18:04. > :18:08.about affordable houses, I tell you a penny to pound those houses are
:18:09. > :18:12.not affordable to most of the people in this audience. APPLAUSE
:18:13. > :18:17.OK, I'm still, let's just focus on this. No one has yet to feature of
:18:18. > :18:20.the foreign investor who will not live here. Diane, tell us how you do
:18:21. > :18:24.it, how you stop Russian buying a flat in London and he's not going to
:18:25. > :18:30.live in it? First of all do have to work with developers to stop them.
:18:31. > :18:34.Some developers advertise these places overseas and have sold them
:18:35. > :18:40.all off plan. They need to offer them to people in London first. Sian
:18:41. > :18:45.Berry, what do you think? This idea of selling off plan to foreign
:18:46. > :18:48.investors, that's part of the economic somehow big developers work
:18:49. > :18:51.now at the moment. All developments in London are doing it. I tell you
:18:52. > :18:55.what, far too many developments that used to be council estates are doing
:18:56. > :18:58.this as well. Councils in London have knocked down 8000 council homes
:18:59. > :19:02.in recent years and not rebuilt them. We need to be doing more to
:19:03. > :19:05.relax the borrowing rules on councils and put more grants in
:19:06. > :19:09.place, so councils and housing associations have a different
:19:10. > :19:14.economic model, not putting lots and lots of private flats and all of
:19:15. > :19:20.their development but can focus on social rented flat and living dead.
:19:21. > :19:23.Free up space by living on the green belt, why not do it? There is plenty
:19:24. > :19:29.of space in central London at the moment. Lots of Brownfield land and
:19:30. > :19:33.in field land. Brownfield land has hospital. , took about went for a
:19:34. > :19:37.second? Actually, for the homes we would he have, if we built hundreds
:19:38. > :19:40.of thousands of new homes that people could afford, that would
:19:41. > :19:43.barely dent... There were plenty of space in central London at the
:19:44. > :19:45.moment. Lots of Brownfield land and infield land. Brownfield land has
:19:46. > :19:48.hospital. , took about went for a second? Actually, for the homes we
:19:49. > :19:50.would he have, if we built hundreds of thousands of new homes that
:19:51. > :19:52.people could afford, that would barely dent... Veretout .3 million
:19:53. > :19:55.private renters, I am one in London and until recently I struggle to pay
:19:56. > :19:58.my rent as well. The only thing that will help the existing people in
:19:59. > :20:01.London to pay their rent and save up for a deposit is that power to do
:20:02. > :20:04.rent controls. The Mayor of London needs that power. I'm not sure Sadiq
:20:05. > :20:07.Khan has tried hard to get it but it is absolutely vital. Levy go back to
:20:08. > :20:09.the audience. In the front row, you have been waiting patiently. Despite
:20:10. > :20:13.everything said by the five of you I don't believe I could buy a house in
:20:14. > :20:18.London and I don't think this could happen now, in the next five years
:20:19. > :20:24.or next ten years. How old are you? 23. And working hours? Customer
:20:25. > :20:28.advisor, I graduated last year and have all that debt as well. Taking
:20:29. > :20:32.the average 23-year-old customer adviser, who thinks that person, you
:20:33. > :20:40.will someone like you, will never be able to buy a house in London? Don't
:20:41. > :20:45.look round! It's not everybody. Some people think that you will. Anyone
:20:46. > :20:51.want to say why... At the back? The gentleman with a beard. Using yes or
:20:52. > :20:58.no? No, she won't be able to. OK, this gentleman in the far corner?
:20:59. > :21:03.You do? I think, obviously as politicians... We've listened to
:21:04. > :21:07.this debate. As a politician, what are you going to do to make sure
:21:08. > :21:10.young individuals are going to afford properties? You can sit there
:21:11. > :21:14.and talked and talked and talked, Labour has done the same thing,
:21:15. > :21:17.Liberal Democrats said the same thing as well. We have high rents
:21:18. > :21:21.and mortgages, what are you going to do about the properties? I just want
:21:22. > :21:25.to take a more comment on the audience before you answer. You have
:21:26. > :21:29.had your hand up most of the programme. This gentleman with the
:21:30. > :21:36.tie. Always impressed with a tie. Would you like to say? Just for
:21:37. > :21:41.information, your mayor, Boris Johnson, when he was in power,
:21:42. > :21:46.London's houses and terms of affordability, what do you know the
:21:47. > :21:51.percentage of houses being made that were affordable? 13%. It is
:21:52. > :21:58.completely a gimmick to hear Tories to say that. The affordable housing
:21:59. > :22:01.is an affordable, that's the charge. This term affordable housing is used
:22:02. > :22:06.to mean different things. It's used by housing professionals to mean
:22:07. > :22:13.housing professionals. If we're talking about that we have given
:22:14. > :22:15.Sadiq Khan ?3.5 billion, the largest amount of money Londoners about a
:22:16. > :22:21.bad for that kind of housing. But Charlie's question was a different
:22:22. > :22:25.one. How do we make housing in general for private rent for people
:22:26. > :22:28.to buy more affordable? The only answer to that, ultimately, is to
:22:29. > :22:34.build enough homes so that supply keeps up with armed. That is why,
:22:35. > :22:37.that is the crucial question. If you compare our manifesto, go away
:22:38. > :22:40.tonight and have a look, with Labour's manifesto, we offer a
:22:41. > :22:44.higher level of house-building and Jeremy Corbyn. Can you pick between
:22:45. > :22:49.these answers, Charlie, or is it very bleak? I find it quite
:22:50. > :22:55.difficult. Speaking on behalf of a few of my friends, having seen house
:22:56. > :23:01.prices rise so much above earnings growth rates, my friends are
:23:02. > :23:05.concerned about buying now for fear of aggression going into negative
:23:06. > :23:08.equity. Even though it can afford it are scared to go into the situation
:23:09. > :23:13.because of that. Thank you, Charlie. That's a good starter on housing. We
:23:14. > :23:19.may never get to the end of housing. We are going to talk about Brexit
:23:20. > :23:22.now. Troy Kennedy, your question on Brexit? 60% of Londoners voted to
:23:23. > :23:26.remain in the European Union, including myself. Many of us feel
:23:27. > :23:31.forgotten about. What would your party do to ensure that London's
:23:32. > :23:38.interests are being considered in the upcoming Brexit negotiations? So
:23:39. > :23:42.Britain is Brexit, London is Remain. Vince Cable, what needs to happen? I
:23:43. > :23:46.think we need to start by saying the hard extreme Ukip style of Brexit,
:23:47. > :23:50.which the government is committed to, taking us out of the single
:23:51. > :23:54.market, the customs union, is potentially enormously damaging and
:23:55. > :23:59.we must try to stop that. It's particularly damaging for London for
:24:00. > :24:01.a whole host of reasons. The financial services industry, which
:24:02. > :24:05.is fundamentally, provides the tax base of the city, is going to
:24:06. > :24:09.migrate out because they don't have single market passport rights. We
:24:10. > :24:12.have these wonderful universities and research centres that are going
:24:13. > :24:17.to lose their European money. We will lose access to the European
:24:18. > :24:20.investment bank, which funds all be public transport infrastructure. We
:24:21. > :24:26.have a quarter of all the top 250 companies in the world headquarters
:24:27. > :24:32.here, specifically because they see Britain as a gateway to Europe. And
:24:33. > :24:35.if we have a serious disruption of our trade, particularly the breaking
:24:36. > :24:39.up of the customs union, a lot of those companies are going to go. So
:24:40. > :24:45.the impact on London is massive. Isn't that the argument you lost
:24:46. > :24:47.last year? No, we haven't lost the argument. The referendum has
:24:48. > :24:53.happened, the vote is taken place. It's gone. There are different ways
:24:54. > :24:57.of leaving the EU, there is the extreme and hard way this government
:24:58. > :25:01.has chosen, we didn't have to leave the single market or the customs
:25:02. > :25:04.union, we don't have to break up all the collaborative relationships
:25:05. > :25:09.around research, which is what will happen if we have a bad deal or we
:25:10. > :25:15.have no deal, which Theresa May has committed to. We must try to avoid
:25:16. > :25:18.that. Peter Whittle, you want to be out tomorrow, basically? This thing
:25:19. > :25:26.about had Brexit and soft Brexit, now extreme Brexit and Ukip
:25:27. > :25:28.Brexit... There is just Brexit. When people voted last year, they knew
:25:29. > :25:30.what they were voting for. The assumption behind all of my
:25:31. > :25:34.colleagues here, all voted to Remain, I'm the only one that voted
:25:35. > :25:37.for Brexit, is basically people were too stupid when they were given the
:25:38. > :25:40.choice. The fact is I don't think people are stupid, they were told
:25:41. > :25:45.very clearly, it means leaving the single market. It means an end to
:25:46. > :25:50.free movement. That is the reason people mostly voted for it in the
:25:51. > :25:55.country. I'd met in London it was 60%, but 40% of Londoners voted to
:25:56. > :26:02.leave. All Vince is doing, because I project via 3.0. APPLAUSE
:26:03. > :26:09.-- Project Fear. The gentleman here wearing the glasses?
:26:10. > :26:17.I am sorry but there were numerous different people from different
:26:18. > :26:24.parties who were backing Brexit, who were coming out with different
:26:25. > :26:29.things. So you can't say that people knew exactly what Brexit was about.
:26:30. > :26:36.Because I know the Conservative minister actually said that if we
:26:37. > :26:40.left the European Union, that we would stay in the single market.
:26:41. > :26:47.There were so many different bits of information.
:26:48. > :26:59.Anyone here think that you voted out, but thinking we could stay in
:27:00. > :27:07.the single market? Nobody, OK! I think Brexit debate has typified the
:27:08. > :27:12.ineptitude of so many politicians. There is no hard Brexit, just Brexit
:27:13. > :27:19.- what does that mean? Red, white and blue bricks and, what does that
:27:20. > :27:25.mean? You can control your own laws, you can have everything you voted
:27:26. > :27:31.for. You have no strategy, none of you on this stage have any strategy.
:27:32. > :27:38.And that is what affect Londoners and that's why we are at risk. The
:27:39. > :27:44.lady here? You also told us we would be getting ?350 million a week for
:27:45. > :27:54.an NHS. That was the Tory campaign. That was the Tory campaign, Vote
:27:55. > :27:58.Leave, that was never right. Our figure, Ukip, was ?250 million,
:27:59. > :28:02.which was actually the correct amount which no-one disputes. They
:28:03. > :28:06.were wrong. You didn't go and lie down in front of their bus
:28:07. > :28:09.correcting the figure, did you? Nigel Farage was very clear at the
:28:10. > :28:17.time that this was an incorrect figure. The day after, yes. You were
:28:18. > :28:22.Remain, were you? Aren't you now embarrassed to be part of this
:28:23. > :28:28.pro-Branksome government? No, because I said before that I would
:28:29. > :28:33.respect the result. I think what is really important now is that we
:28:34. > :28:37.respect the result and we try and bring the country back together.
:28:38. > :28:41.That means addressing the things which led people to Vote Leave but
:28:42. > :28:46.addressing the reserves of people who voted Remain liked about the
:28:47. > :28:50.institution. Where I disagree with Vince, if you stay in the single
:28:51. > :28:55.market and the customs union, that isn't Brexit. You have still got
:28:56. > :29:00.free movement, and you can't do trade deals with any other
:29:01. > :29:04.countries. That's not Brexit. It is no good as a country if we spend the
:29:05. > :29:07.whole of next year arguing about the referendum that we had last year. We
:29:08. > :29:12.have got to bring the country together and we have got to get the
:29:13. > :29:16.right Brexit deal. What do you say to EU nationals living in London,
:29:17. > :29:21.you are the only party not saying it? We absolutely want them to stay.
:29:22. > :29:25.We have a juju to people who are living here and contributing to our
:29:26. > :29:29.great city and to look after British citizens in EU countries as well.
:29:30. > :29:34.These negotiations are going to start a few days after the election,
:29:35. > :29:37.and the question is, who do you want doing those negotiations, Theresa
:29:38. > :29:43.May or Jeremy Corbyn? That is the key question. Diane Abbott, you,
:29:44. > :29:46.Labour, have conceded that free movement will end, and your party
:29:47. > :29:51.seemed to say it through gritted teeth - why did you say that, it is
:29:52. > :29:55.not what you believe? Free movement is a function of being in the EU. If
:29:56. > :29:59.we are not in the EU, free movement ends. To go back to the question,
:30:00. > :30:04.there are over 1 million EU nationals living in London. And the
:30:05. > :30:13.Labour Party does not believe that we should use them as bargaining
:30:14. > :30:15.chips in the negotiations. We believe that we should straightaway
:30:16. > :30:20.say that we will secure their position. It is not just a human
:30:21. > :30:25.rights issue, those EU nationals are working in our hospitals, in social
:30:26. > :30:30.care... Anyone in this room in that position? Maybe not. They have
:30:31. > :30:33.British partners and British children, so that's the first thing
:30:34. > :30:38.we would do. You would guarantee their place as well but are we
:30:39. > :30:42.absolutely. I am ashamed that we have not got further in nearly a
:30:43. > :30:47.year, in terms of negotiations. The negotiations are going to be really,
:30:48. > :30:50.really intricate. And yet every time you say, what are we going to do
:30:51. > :30:54.about EU nationals, what are we going to do about science funding?
:30:55. > :31:00.You say that to somebody who is Leave and all they do is shout back
:31:01. > :31:04.slogans at you. We need to be talking much more about the details.
:31:05. > :31:09.I tell you who I want negotiating Brexit, I want Caroline Lucas doing
:31:10. > :31:12.it. She was an MEP for ten years, she hasn't got a massive chip on her
:31:13. > :31:17.shoulder, and she can go out there and get the best deal for us. But
:31:18. > :31:20.once we know what that deal is, I think we need a second referendum,
:31:21. > :31:25.not the same question, a ratification referendum. Who is
:31:26. > :31:32.Brexit here, put your hand up? OK, the gentleman in the jacket just at
:31:33. > :31:38.the end of the row. I think you're living in cuckoo land, if you think
:31:39. > :31:43.we're going to throw all EU citizens out when we do Brexit, where are you
:31:44. > :31:47.coming from, we are not great to throw them out, Diane! The
:31:48. > :31:51.Government could give them reassurance, and it refuses to do
:31:52. > :31:57.so. No, we aren't throwing anyone out of the country! This gentleman
:31:58. > :32:00.here, in the middle. I voted for Brexit and I kind of get that we
:32:01. > :32:06.don't have a complete mandate to leave the single market, with only
:32:07. > :32:10.2%. But the Greens and the Liberal Democrats talking about having a
:32:11. > :32:13.second referendum, you accept that we left the European Union but then
:32:14. > :32:18.you want to give us the chance to remain in the European Union. Surely
:32:19. > :32:24.it should just big deal or no deal, just no referendum, because you've
:32:25. > :32:28.accepted that we've left? It is a totally different question. The
:32:29. > :32:32.public have voted to leave, we haven't got any understanding yet
:32:33. > :32:38.about what the destination is. Let me make a simple point - Theresa May
:32:39. > :32:43.has said that she wants to crash out of the European Union if they can't
:32:44. > :32:49.get a good deal. Which they may not. She used that phrase. In which case
:32:50. > :32:55.we may have a chaotic situation in which there are no rules for
:32:56. > :32:58.business, and under those circumstances, the British public
:32:59. > :33:02.should have an opportunity to pass a judgment on what has been agreed.
:33:03. > :33:08.Question on a different subject, another huge subject, from Margaret
:33:09. > :33:13.Fordham up here. It is, yes. I am now in my 70s, I have paid my taxes
:33:14. > :33:19.and worked to be able to afford to buy my own home, which is worth over
:33:20. > :33:26.?100,000. I want to leave it to my family, to my son, who is sitting
:33:27. > :33:32.next to me. But if I go into care, they might need to sell this house
:33:33. > :33:37.to pay for the care. Is that fair? Is it fair, Gavin Barwell, that
:33:38. > :33:42.Margaret should have to lose the value in her home to pay for care?
:33:43. > :33:47.It is the current position, Margaret, if that happened to you
:33:48. > :33:51.right now, your house would be eroded down to just ?23,000. That is
:33:52. > :33:55.all you would be able to give to your son. Theresa May is proposing
:33:56. > :34:01.briefings, first of all to raise that to ?100,000. And secondly, we
:34:02. > :34:05.are saying there should be a cap on the total contribution. Of how much?
:34:06. > :34:09.We're going to consult on that. There is an election soon, you've
:34:10. > :34:13.got to tell us! I think it is important to have a consultation
:34:14. > :34:17.about that. Margaret was asking me a simple question, and I agree with
:34:18. > :34:21.her that she people should be able to leave a significant proportion of
:34:22. > :34:26.what you have worked hard for. You must know what that cap is, to be
:34:27. > :34:31.able to work these figures out, yet Theresa May was unwilling to say. My
:34:32. > :34:37.concern is that after caring for my mum, she could be in care for years
:34:38. > :34:40.and eventually, I would have to get a mortgage to live in my own home
:34:41. > :34:45.which we have spent years paying off. I live with my mum, my father
:34:46. > :34:48.died when I was 23, we were left in loads of debt because he had
:34:49. > :34:54.dementia himself, who clubbed together, we pay for the house, we
:34:55. > :34:58.keep the house going. I am not saying, oh, great, look at me. What
:34:59. > :35:01.I'm saying is, we have got a property which we spent years
:35:02. > :35:05.looking after, when my mum goes into care, undone end up having to get a
:35:06. > :35:10.mortgage. Important to say, you're not alone. Although you say that
:35:11. > :35:14.Margaret will be better off within a bit of ?100,000, it is not quite
:35:15. > :35:18.true, is it, because the value will be taken out when she uses social
:35:19. > :35:22.care in her own home, and that is the big change? That is really
:35:23. > :35:26.important, at the moment, a lot of people are being forced out of their
:35:27. > :35:28.own home. Some people are being forced to go into residential care,
:35:29. > :35:34.that is not a good outcome for people. Coming back to the point,
:35:35. > :35:38.people will not have to sell their home at the point someone needs to
:35:39. > :35:42.go into care. What you said in your question is exactly right, people
:35:43. > :35:45.who work hard should be able to pass on a significant proportion of what
:35:46. > :35:53.they have built up in their lives, to their children. We have been
:35:54. > :35:58.paying off that property for years. Weren't Conservatives and other
:35:59. > :36:01.parties encouraging us to be aspirational, to own our own homes,
:36:02. > :36:10.in order for them to take it back from us almost in its entirety? Let
:36:11. > :36:15.me bring... You cannot spin this, this was a humiliating U-turn you've
:36:16. > :36:20.done. And also it shows that the nasty party is still well and truly
:36:21. > :36:23.alive. It is appalling. The fact is, we have not taken social care for
:36:24. > :36:28.the elderly seriously enough. What we are talking about in my party is
:36:29. > :36:32.putting ?1.2 billion purely into social care, integrating it with the
:36:33. > :36:36.National Health Service, and putting that money into social care, which
:36:37. > :36:41.we will take from the hugely inflated foreign aid budget. So,
:36:42. > :36:52.you're taking the whole of the foreign aid budget... No, we're
:36:53. > :36:56.going to reduce it from 0.7 down to 0.2%, which is what America spends
:36:57. > :37:00.on it. We are going to put ?9 billion of that into the NHS and ?2
:37:01. > :37:04.billion into social care. Sian Berry? The Conservatives have made a
:37:05. > :37:07.right mess of this. I think it is completely wrong to try and take
:37:08. > :37:12.away your home to try and pay for your care. This is social security,
:37:13. > :37:18.one of those things which should be paid for out of things like national
:37:19. > :37:22.insurance. Currently, national insurance drops to a very low level,
:37:23. > :37:25.people should carry on paying for national insurance and it should go
:37:26. > :37:29.towards social care. When it comes to inheritance, we think the money
:37:30. > :37:33.from inheritance should be taxed according to the income of who
:37:34. > :37:36.receives it, not according to the estate which is giving its. I think
:37:37. > :37:40.that would be much more fair. Some people, their home is their only
:37:41. > :37:46.asset, their children are poor, if those children are not wealthy, they
:37:47. > :37:49.should not be taxed on it. Diane Abbott, your leader, Tony Blair, who
:37:50. > :37:53.of course you are a big fan of, once said, you should not have to sell
:37:54. > :37:57.your home to pay for your care, and I think he got the biggest round of
:37:58. > :38:00.applause he ever got at the party conference, is that your policy
:38:01. > :38:07.still? Yeah, I think that is exactly right. I know people from the
:38:08. > :38:11.inner-city who scrimped and saved to buy a house in Gavin's constituency.
:38:12. > :38:17.They did without a lot of things, and to tell them, when they have
:38:18. > :38:23.paid into their national insurance all their life, that they're going
:38:24. > :38:28.to pay this dementia tax?! This was the position under a Labour
:38:29. > :38:34.government. No, because what is new, with this dementia tax, Europe
:38:35. > :38:39.you're going to take people's homes after they have died. You have taken
:38:40. > :38:45.this a step further, and you're going to have this dementia tax for
:38:46. > :38:51.people who are just getting care in their homes. Of course it is unfair.
:38:52. > :38:55.Ryan, you will have to raise more tax, to do what you want to do, and
:38:56. > :39:00.I have to mention this, you're going to raise the tax on people earning
:39:01. > :39:04.?80,000 and above. Now, you know in London, somebody on ?80,000 might
:39:05. > :39:07.not even be able to afford to buy a house, that is how crazy the
:39:08. > :39:17.property market is. So how is it fair to ask them to pay more tax?
:39:18. > :39:25.The point about... We are only talking about putting income tax on
:39:26. > :39:27.the top 5%. The point about income tax, consistently applied, it is
:39:28. > :39:33.still fairer than randomly taking the houses of people who happen to
:39:34. > :39:42.have made that investment. What about inheritance tax? Vince Cable.
:39:43. > :39:45.What is so incompetent as well as cruel about what the Conservatives
:39:46. > :39:51.did, was, they were getting all of this talk about consultation. We
:39:52. > :39:54.have already had one, we spent three years in the coalition consulting,
:39:55. > :40:00.there is a 300 page document drawn up by Andrew Dilnot, we agreed a
:40:01. > :40:02.figure, 72,000. And there is absolutely no reason whatever why
:40:03. > :40:05.the Conservatives could not have stayed with that. There is a
:40:06. > :40:10.separate issue, which links to the issue of taxation, quite apart from
:40:11. > :40:16.how you fund long-term personal care, there is a current crisis in
:40:17. > :40:20.actually paying for home care services of local councils. They
:40:21. > :40:23.have lost vast amounts of money, elderly, frail people are having to
:40:24. > :40:28.go into hospital and they are staying in hospital. One reason we
:40:29. > :40:31.are arguing that we want ordinary taxpayers to pay a penny in the
:40:32. > :40:35.pound one income tax is party to support the Health Service, but
:40:36. > :40:38.partly to support social care budget, because you have to look at
:40:39. > :40:44.those briefings together. I think we have got in the audience, I don't
:40:45. > :40:49.know if you are retired yet... You're not. You are a director of
:40:50. > :40:54.health and social care? Yes. Actually involved with the royal
:40:55. > :41:02.commission on care. Just to get the argument right, it was 14,250 is the
:41:03. > :41:07.actual limit today, not 23,000. It was the Liberals and the
:41:08. > :41:13.Conservatives who proposed in the 2014 act that it should increase to
:41:14. > :41:21.17,000, if you remember. Do you see a solution? I think what the Prime
:41:22. > :41:25.Minister did, she said, instead of having 14,250, let's have it at
:41:26. > :41:33.100,000. She also turned around and said, OK, people receiving help in
:41:34. > :41:37.their own homes, perhaps the should have it come out of their resources
:41:38. > :41:43.as well. That's roughly speaking ?200 a week. You have got to spend a
:41:44. > :41:48.lot of 10,000 driver to get that. The question I ask is, when you're
:41:49. > :41:50.sitting in government, you've got responsibilities and you're looking
:41:51. > :41:57.at the budget for adult social care, what is your priority, is in this
:41:58. > :42:04.area, or are there other areas in adult social care which you are
:42:05. > :42:09.prototypes and -- which you upright or -- which you are prioritising? In
:42:10. > :42:15.regard to the dementia tax what I would like to say is, you've done 27
:42:16. > :42:23.U-turns since your last manifesto. How dare you expect me to implicitly
:42:24. > :42:30.trust you now? Anyone else? It is not easy, this, there is no obvious
:42:31. > :42:34.solution. Hello. I think it is unfair to completely go on the
:42:35. > :42:37.U-turn, because surely if you get bad feedback and make changes,
:42:38. > :42:42.surely that is a good thing, not a bad thing. The Conservatives are far
:42:43. > :42:49.from being the only party who have done that. Who asked the question on
:42:50. > :42:58.this? Yes, Margaret Fordham, you were worried about your home? Yes, I
:42:59. > :43:03.am, and I really fear that for years, we have had to work so hard
:43:04. > :43:09.to keep our home, and for this to happen, it's so disappointing and
:43:10. > :43:13.I'm so disappointed in the Conservatives, I really, really am.
:43:14. > :43:19.We are out of time. Thank you, politicians, thank you, brilliant
:43:20. > :43:22.audience as well. All I should say, really, is that polling takes place
:43:23. > :44:03.on the 8th of June. Thank you very much for watching. Good night.
:44:04. > :44:07.Hear the arguments from the politicians themselves.