:00:00. > :00:25.Welcome to the BBC Spotlight election debate.
:00:26. > :00:30.Tackling your questions are Anne Marie Morris,
:00:31. > :00:33.standing for the Conservatives in Newton Abbot.
:00:34. > :00:39.Labour's candidate in Exeter, Ben Bradshaw.
:00:40. > :00:41.Fighting Newquay and St Austell for the Liberal Democrats,
:00:42. > :00:48.Ukip's Steve Crowther, who is standing in North Devon.
:00:49. > :00:54.And the Totnes Green Party candidate Jacqi Hodgson.
:00:55. > :01:01.Welcome to all of you. So many questions. Very little time. We are
:01:02. > :01:03.going to go to their profession close to my heart. I come from a
:01:04. > :01:04.family of teachers. Our first question is from
:01:05. > :01:07.Clare Dingwall, who is a teacher. Budget cuts mean there
:01:08. > :01:09.will be ?26 million less going into Cornish secondary
:01:10. > :01:11.schools, with pupil numbers rising. How will you ensure that pupil
:01:12. > :01:21.numbers are protected in real terms? School funding a very hot topic.
:01:22. > :01:27.Let's ago first of all to Anne Marie Morris. Really it's about real
:01:28. > :01:35.terms. How are you going to make things fairer? You are quite right.
:01:36. > :01:40.That is at the heart of what the Conservatives want to do. I have
:01:41. > :01:50.been fighting hard for this fairness. The government have had to
:01:51. > :01:54.gos at getting the formula right. How can you guarantee at? Every
:01:55. > :02:03.member of the panel will make sure that happens. Devon MPs said be in
:02:04. > :02:08.no doubt there must be a proper settlement. It needs to be fair. We
:02:09. > :02:15.mean fair. There must not be any cuts. We will be fighting for
:02:16. > :02:17.Cornwall, fighting for Devon, fighting to ensure the rural
:02:18. > :02:22.community get their fair share. That is the root of the problem. Does not
:02:23. > :02:29.fit at the moment. South schools really do suffer. How are you going
:02:30. > :02:32.to bring that up? The government need to look at how the formula
:02:33. > :02:37.works. More money has been put into the school budget. The problem is
:02:38. > :02:41.the way it has been calculated is not right. The very smallest of
:02:42. > :02:46.rural schools clearly have the challenge of having fixed overheads.
:02:47. > :02:52.That makes it much more difficult to run economically and efficiently. So
:02:53. > :02:55.for them, the funding formula as nearly doubled what they are going
:02:56. > :03:00.to get. That makes no sense. The middle sized schools were losing
:03:01. > :03:03.out. We need to look at something which actually makes sure the
:03:04. > :03:08.schools are properly funded to meet the needs they have. And I think
:03:09. > :03:12.every pupil to have the same basic amount allocated to them. Yes, you
:03:13. > :03:17.need to make adjustments for deprivation. But there must be a
:03:18. > :03:23.basic amount every child gets. Does that make sense, Stephen Gilbert? It
:03:24. > :03:26.is fine words. Unfortunately we have seen from the Conservatives actions
:03:27. > :03:30.that will continue to damage goods across Cornwall. There isn't a
:03:31. > :03:33.single school in my constituency which will gain any money as a
:03:34. > :03:40.result of the Conservative plans for funding. The school I teach at in
:03:41. > :03:44.Saint Austell will lose ?700,000 a year under the Conservative plans.
:03:45. > :03:48.We have seen a lot of talk from the Conservatives, and in some cases
:03:49. > :03:51.Conservative MPs welcoming these changes, but no real action to
:03:52. > :03:56.deliver the education pupils need. We have to make sure that schools
:03:57. > :03:59.don't have the cuts the Conservatives will be imposing. We
:04:00. > :04:04.are clear no school should lose money as a result of the funding
:04:05. > :04:07.formula changes. We need to respect our teachers, respect the job they
:04:08. > :04:11.are doing, investing in our young people as school is one of the best
:04:12. > :04:16.things as a community and as a society we can do. As a teacher, I
:04:17. > :04:20.already see the strain that our schools are under and the damage
:04:21. > :04:24.that is having on pupils meeting their potential. And I make this
:04:25. > :04:28.absolutely clear. This issue will only get worse under the
:04:29. > :04:32.Conservatives. We have only seen talk over two years from the
:04:33. > :04:36.Conservatives. We need real action to save schools in Devon and
:04:37. > :04:44.Cornwall. This is something we were in coalition and both agreed to. We
:04:45. > :04:50.will leave you to fight it out. Ben Bradshaw, do the Labour plans stack
:04:51. > :04:56.up? Yes. To concentrate on the funding formula is a distraction.
:04:57. > :05:01.Our schools are already facing huge budget cuts. My schools are losing
:05:02. > :05:07.hundreds of thousands of pounds a year as are my primary schools. They
:05:08. > :05:10.are laying off teachers, classroom assistants and other staff. The
:05:11. > :05:13.funding formula proposed by the Conservatives would make things
:05:14. > :05:19.worse. We have to reverse these cuts. This is our children's future.
:05:20. > :05:23.We need to invest in skills and education if we are going to succeed
:05:24. > :05:28.as an economy going forward. Labour would reverse those cuts by a small
:05:29. > :05:29.increase in corporation tax. All of our manifesto commitment are fully
:05:30. > :05:43.costed. We have actually published a costings
:05:44. > :05:45.document. The Tories have not even tried to cost their manifesto
:05:46. > :05:48.commitments. Our commitment is to the future generation. Raise that
:05:49. > :05:50.money coming from? A small increase in corporation tax. There will be
:05:51. > :05:55.lowered corporation tax than any other country in Europe. We will be
:05:56. > :05:59.able to save our schools and public services in general. We have to find
:06:00. > :06:06.the money from somewhere. Increased tax borrowing under Labour. Does
:06:07. > :06:10.that make sense? It is clear as we have listened to the promises and
:06:11. > :06:14.plans of the different parties that the only way we will save education
:06:15. > :06:18.and the health service as well is to vote for any party other than the
:06:19. > :06:24.Tories. APPLAUSE.
:06:25. > :06:29.Steve Crowther, how are you going to solve the problem? There has been a
:06:30. > :06:32.lot of work on the new national funding formula but that work has
:06:33. > :06:37.unravelled. It keeps being pushed back. Even the new national funding
:06:38. > :06:43.formula admits in its construction that it is unfair. It is based on a
:06:44. > :06:47.lot of historical numbers. And therefore... It is bizarre we are in
:06:48. > :06:54.a situation where in Devon every pupil is ?290 below the national
:06:55. > :06:56.average. And subsequently under the new national formula, 62% of pupils
:06:57. > :07:02.in Devon are still going to be suffering. The formula doesn't work.
:07:03. > :07:07.We have to completely look at the formula again and make it a formula
:07:08. > :07:12.that is fair to every pupil in the country. We also have to bear in
:07:13. > :07:15.mind that there is already a ?2 billion on funded hole in the
:07:16. > :07:20.funding budget. The government does not even know how to fill it. A lot
:07:21. > :07:23.of the prevarication and the fiddling about with this so-called
:07:24. > :07:31.new formula that is supposed to be coming in in 2018-19, is filling an
:07:32. > :07:36.existing hole. That hole is right up there in terms of needing to be
:07:37. > :07:38.filled along with the crisis in national health and social care.
:07:39. > :07:45.Those are the massive priorities anybody will try to fill. You only
:07:46. > :07:48.have to listen to the teachers who to BBC radio Devon. They this --
:07:49. > :07:53.they -- they say they are losing teachers hand over fist. 20 teachers
:07:54. > :07:56.will be disappearing from one school alone because of this funding
:07:57. > :08:03.formula. Jacqi Hodgson, the Green Party said they wanted to release
:08:04. > :08:08.the education from its circles. How will you do that? Absolutely. That
:08:09. > :08:13.is really important. We are looking to defend the indefensible. What is
:08:14. > :08:15.happening to schools for quite a long time, the political
:08:16. > :08:20.interference in schools, is completely untenable. We are moving
:08:21. > :08:25.the deck chairs all the time. That costs money. This is about switching
:08:26. > :08:29.money from state schools. It is about giving it to the free schools
:08:30. > :08:33.and the academies. We are not on a level playing field. That money is
:08:34. > :08:38.being diverted away. We have had a double whammy. The local authorities
:08:39. > :08:44.with the cuts they faced, that is adding money to pupils as well. More
:08:45. > :08:48.people are losing their jobs. It is completely untenable. But for the
:08:49. > :08:55.children, they are constantly being tested. Constant SAT exams. It is
:08:56. > :08:58.undermining schools. There are better models we could look at where
:08:59. > :09:01.we left teachers get on with teaching and let the children get on
:09:02. > :09:06.with learning. One of the things we would do is actually start bringing
:09:07. > :09:11.children into school later. We have had provision -- not until seven.
:09:12. > :09:15.Children are being over tested, under examined and that costs money
:09:16. > :09:20.instead of letting people get on with teaching. Who is also missing
:09:21. > :09:25.out in the classroom? Children with special needs. The children who have
:09:26. > :09:27.had a lot of extra attention which has allowed them to be part of
:09:28. > :09:33.mainstream education, which is so important. That will be lost as
:09:34. > :09:41.well. This is very wrong. It is totally indefensible. Would
:09:42. > :09:46.you like to say something? Yes. The cuts are huge for all children in
:09:47. > :09:51.all schools. You have just mentioned disabled children. The cuts for
:09:52. > :09:54.disabled children in mainstream and specialist education are just
:09:55. > :09:56.untenable. Our children with learning disabilities and other
:09:57. > :10:01.physical disabilities deserve and have the right to the same education
:10:02. > :10:06.as all other children. So even cutting the budgets for typically
:10:07. > :10:12.developing children, none of you really have touched on the impact of
:10:13. > :10:19.disabled children and their education. My son's School is a
:10:20. > :10:24.mainstream school in Steve's constituency, losing ?400,000. And
:10:25. > :10:30.yet they still continue to find ways to include my severely learning
:10:31. > :10:34.disabled child. I want to know what the panel are going to do to make
:10:35. > :10:39.sure that all children with disabilities are going to be
:10:40. > :10:45.properly included in education. There have been a lot of very good
:10:46. > :10:49.points made. The funding formula is not yet set in stone. We have had a
:10:50. > :10:53.second consultation. We have made the point clearly that many of the
:10:54. > :10:56.panel members have made. I totally take your point with regard to
:10:57. > :11:02.children with disabilities. They do need a special focus. They have been
:11:03. > :11:05.lucky with excellent schools that do that. We can't prejudge where we are
:11:06. > :11:10.going based on the formulae as currently presented because we are
:11:11. > :11:15.committed to changing it, to making it fair. Those with disabilities
:11:16. > :11:21.absolutely need a fair part of this. We said we are going to put ?4
:11:22. > :11:25.billion into it. One of the other panellists mentioned this. We are in
:11:26. > :11:28.-- looking at ensuring that education is across the piece. When
:11:29. > :11:33.you are an older person coming into work, we look at how you can get
:11:34. > :11:36.back into work. Skills training. We need to look at education in its
:11:37. > :11:40.broadest form and look at how you can make provision, whether it is
:11:41. > :11:44.disabled, whether you are engineering oriented. That is the
:11:45. > :11:51.key. That meets the needs of the individual children. This just isn't
:11:52. > :11:56.good enough. This is a major issue at this general election, one of two
:11:57. > :12:00.major funding holds the Conservative manifesto is silent on. What will
:12:01. > :12:04.happen the social care? No clue. What is the funding formula for
:12:05. > :12:10.education? No clue. They are coming to us asking us for their votes.
:12:11. > :12:14.That is not good enough for a sandy's child. That is not good
:12:15. > :12:18.enough for any of our children. And if the audience do one thing on the
:12:19. > :12:22.back of this discussion tonight, go home, go onto the Internet and find
:12:23. > :12:24.out how much your local primary and secondary schools stand to lose
:12:25. > :12:35.APPLAUSE. APPLAUSE.
:12:36. > :12:38.Steve is talking about figures as they were
:12:39. > :12:43.presented not as the future. The point he makes, we need to ensure
:12:44. > :12:53.this is fair, is right. I think it is better to consult people, ask
:12:54. > :12:57.them what this new formula... Social education is now. Not when
:12:58. > :13:01.you decide to go and look at it and ask everybody what they want. My
:13:02. > :13:05.child is being educated now. He needs funding now. Not in three
:13:06. > :13:09.years' time when the Conservatives decided to get their finger out and
:13:10. > :13:18.do something about it, I'm afraid. APPLAUSE.
:13:19. > :13:24.And that is why this issue is being looked at. I don't want it looking
:13:25. > :13:30.at. I wanted to do it. I take your point. We could talk about this.
:13:31. > :13:35.Sorry for interrupting. I must return to player. As your question
:13:36. > :13:38.been entered? In some respects, yes. We need more immaculate -- action
:13:39. > :13:43.and less, we need to rearrange the formula. Another heat -- heated
:13:44. > :13:55.debate next. We are going onto Brexit. Michael Szabo. Thank you.
:13:56. > :14:01.When the Brexit negotiations occur, what key gains must be won back to
:14:02. > :14:08.prove to the British people that they will receive the Brexit that
:14:09. > :14:16.they voted for last year? Steve Crowther. Do you trust the
:14:17. > :14:19.government in charge to deliver? I'm a little concerned that Theresa May
:14:20. > :14:24.went under some heavy fire this week, cut and ran and got behind,
:14:25. > :14:29.went into cover. I'm a little worried about that. She has two.
:14:30. > :14:33.There are no two ways about it. There isn't really anybody much you
:14:34. > :14:36.doesn't think we are going to leave the European Union. Some people are
:14:37. > :14:39.tying to suggest we can do it without leaving the single market.
:14:40. > :14:44.That would be like doing a weird conjuring trick since the two things
:14:45. > :14:50.are indivisible. Clearly we have to leave. We have to leave with a deal,
:14:51. > :14:54.or an agreement not to have an agreement. But at the end of that
:14:55. > :14:58.day, we are going into negotiations, we have to negotiate very hard
:14:59. > :15:02.because we are going to be negotiated at very hard. We have to
:15:03. > :15:05.come out and take our place in the world with a positive outlook and a
:15:06. > :15:11.positive future, and a strong trading relationship. It has to be a
:15:12. > :15:15.good deal? The deal will be what the deal is. It is not a disaster for us
:15:16. > :15:19.to be just like other nations in the world, particularly big strong ones
:15:20. > :15:23.but at the fifth biggest economy in the world, to trade with the world.
:15:24. > :15:33.That is fine. Lots of other countries manage it. This idea that
:15:34. > :15:38.we will fall a cliff... Are we falling off a cliff? The important
:15:39. > :15:44.thing is fishing. I would like to ask any Brexiteers, what is the
:15:45. > :15:51.short to medium-term economic impact of Brexit? This into bin answers.
:15:52. > :15:56.Ben Bradshaw. -- there seemed to be no answers. It is difficult to
:15:57. > :16:03.answer the question. That assumes we know who voted Leave and Remain. For
:16:04. > :16:08.me the test is, we would be poorer? Will be still have the same good
:16:09. > :16:14.trade? -- will we be poorer? The government has to hold their feet to
:16:15. > :16:18.the fire. Who would buy a home without ever having seen it? That is
:16:19. > :16:25.essentially what Mrs May is asking us to do, give her a blank cheque. I
:16:26. > :16:29.don't think in a democracy we should be prepared to do that. It is very
:16:30. > :16:34.important that Parliament has the right to scrutinise any deal and to
:16:35. > :16:37.vote for it. If you believe in democracy, you have to allow the
:16:38. > :16:41.public the right to change their mind if they are presented with a
:16:42. > :16:45.really, really bad deal. The idea of no deal at all, which Mrs May has
:16:46. > :16:52.also floated, would be catastrophic for our economy. Exeter experienced
:16:53. > :16:56.70% of all of our goods go straight to the European Union. If we put
:16:57. > :16:58.tariffs on those exports and imports, it hits our business, hits
:16:59. > :17:08.jobs and increases prices to consumers. You believe there should
:17:09. > :17:12.be a second vote on the referendum? There should definitely be a second
:17:13. > :17:16.referendum to look at what the deal is. We need to understand what we
:17:17. > :17:22.are being offered. Also, there should be a get out clause, where if
:17:23. > :17:26.we feel what we are offered is not secure enough for this country, not
:17:27. > :17:31.just in terms of finances but in terms of human rights, trading and
:17:32. > :17:35.the environment, some critical things. We have to look at the
:17:36. > :17:39.detail as well. Sweeping statements, which is all we have had so far
:17:40. > :17:44.because of the lack of understanding or lack of real appreciation of what
:17:45. > :17:49.it means to be part of Europe since the 1970s, I think we need to grasp
:17:50. > :17:52.all of that very carefully. People like the farmers, there is a huge
:17:53. > :17:57.farming community in this area that we need to be aware of and protect.
:17:58. > :18:01.They will lose out on subsidies. Maybe we need to look at some of the
:18:02. > :18:04.things that are close to the hearts of the Green Party, giving better
:18:05. > :18:10.value to the producers, the farmers, the fishermen. Clear things we need
:18:11. > :18:15.to be clear about. We need to make sure we know what we're talking
:18:16. > :18:18.about when we leave. Fishing, farming, tourism. What is the most
:18:19. > :18:28.important thing? Should we be voting again? I would say Mr Bradshaw was
:18:29. > :18:35.talking about moving into a house we have never seen. Back in 1975, the
:18:36. > :18:39.whole nation voted to go into in -- an organisation which we were told
:18:40. > :18:44.was a trading organisation of 11 countries which were going to trade
:18:45. > :18:50.without any borders. What a wonderful thing. Nobody said
:18:51. > :18:52.anything about us losing our sovereignty and the other rights
:18:53. > :18:58.which have insidiously been taken away from us. These have slipped in
:18:59. > :19:03.through the back door various governance, Tory and Labour. We have
:19:04. > :19:10.been lied to and lied to again since 1975.
:19:11. > :19:14.There have been arguments about losing our sovereignty. There are
:19:15. > :19:17.only a certain percentage of laws made by the European Union. If the
:19:18. > :19:23.European Union wants to make laws regarding equality and gender,
:19:24. > :19:26.religion are all those other issues, I'm happy for them to legislate so
:19:27. > :19:32.it protects people and promote equality. Do I trust the government
:19:33. > :19:40.of the day to do that? In the same way that people who are ideological
:19:41. > :19:47.me... The European Commissioners are accountable to nobody. They haven't
:19:48. > :19:54.had their books audited for the past 20 years. There are some things that
:19:55. > :19:57.need to be reformed, absolutely. They can do whatever they want
:19:58. > :20:02.without accounting to anybody. It is appalling. I will return to the
:20:03. > :20:06.panel in a minute. A lot of people are incredibly worried about Brexit,
:20:07. > :20:13.EU migrants and the care people receive. We need a good deal, don't
:20:14. > :20:17.wiki macro I think you'll find in the Conservative manifesto it
:20:18. > :20:21.specifically says we will prioritise bringing in and enabling people from
:20:22. > :20:27.the EU to come to meet our needs. We recognise that. But Brexit as a
:20:28. > :20:32.whole and the benefit to this country will enable us if we are
:20:33. > :20:37.successful, to provide more funding and more skill within our on
:20:38. > :20:41.country. The reason we left the EU was because we could not build our
:20:42. > :20:45.economy. We had our hands tied behind our back. We could not enter
:20:46. > :20:50.into a trade deal with other countries. The 28 members that
:20:51. > :20:53.comprise the EU could never meet -- reach agreement. Even the EU
:20:54. > :20:58.admitted there was more opportunity outside the EU in other countries
:20:59. > :21:01.than vice versa. The scaremongering that has been going on, that
:21:02. > :21:06.suddenly things are going to go horribly wrong, actually, there are
:21:07. > :21:10.more jobs, there is more trade, more manufacturing. Do you remember the
:21:11. > :21:14.promise that we would be hitting doom and gloom and it would be
:21:15. > :21:21.awful? It did not happen. And it will not happen. As for the comment
:21:22. > :21:25.about the no deal, let's forget the scaremongering. The reality is that
:21:26. > :21:29.clearly we want a deal. And indeed the Germans and the French, the
:21:30. > :21:35.business community, are putting pressure on their governments. If
:21:36. > :21:39.there are tariffs introduced alongside -- along WTO lines, the
:21:40. > :21:46.people who will hurt most are the Europeans, not the Brits.
:21:47. > :21:49.Stephen Gilbert. Let's try to remember one of the other promises
:21:50. > :21:58.they came out during the referendum campaign. Remember the big red boss
:21:59. > :22:02.Mac? That one that promised money for the NHS? Where has that money
:22:03. > :22:08.gone? What about the money that Cornwall gets, the billions of
:22:09. > :22:15.pounds that Cornwall gets, added to by other European funds? The reality
:22:16. > :22:19.of this is that the country started the process last year. We now have
:22:20. > :22:24.to have the negotiations. We need to know what is going to happen to
:22:25. > :22:28.migrant labour for our tourism and agricultural industries. How are we
:22:29. > :22:32.going to continue to develop our infrastructure? What access will be
:22:33. > :22:36.get to the single market? I think it is right that people started this
:22:37. > :22:40.process with a referendum. Let's see what the deal is and let the people
:22:41. > :22:44.and the process, too. Now we're back to kick -- activated
:22:45. > :22:49.Article 50, surely we can't change our position? There is no point in
:22:50. > :22:57.going back to the electorate because we can't change it. Yes we can. How
:22:58. > :23:03.do we do that? The first vote was a vote in principle. Fair enough, it's
:23:04. > :23:08.democracy. The people voted to come out. But the Remainers and the
:23:09. > :23:13.Brexiteers waterboarding blind. I didn't know the price or the
:23:14. > :23:16.consequences. When the deal was finally made, whatever it is, the
:23:17. > :23:21.people should have another referendum when the know the facts.
:23:22. > :23:26.Then they can decide sensibly whether to come in or out. Why are
:23:27. > :23:32.the Brexiteer is so afraid of this second choice? Why didn't you know
:23:33. > :23:39.what you were voting for a? We were paying attention. I don't agree with
:23:40. > :23:44.that at all. I'm 75 now, and I have voted in every election I could.
:23:45. > :23:47.Never Conservative. But for the first time ever I am seriously
:23:48. > :23:53.considering it. One of the reasons is Brexit and the ability of the
:23:54. > :23:58.Conservatives to negotiate and get a good solid deal. I think the Lib
:23:59. > :24:02.Dems and Labour, both parties I have voted for in the past, are dancing
:24:03. > :24:10.on the point of a pin. I voted to go into the European Common Market. But
:24:11. > :24:14.I voted to leave this time. A valid decision. I accept that decision.
:24:15. > :24:23.Get the best deal we can. That is what we should be doing.
:24:24. > :24:28.16 to 18-year-olds didn't get a say in the referendum. Fair enough. How
:24:29. > :24:30.can we apply to university 's? How can the government safeguard
:24:31. > :24:38.University funding per student in the UK to go to university across
:24:39. > :24:40.Europe? And funding is -- funding for charities for young people in
:24:41. > :24:44.this country? How can you guarantee the funding is going to be left in a
:24:45. > :24:49.hole and young people's services aren't going to be The headlines:
:24:50. > :24:53.more detrimentally? It is not going to happen. There is a misconception
:24:54. > :24:57.you have to be a member of the EU to participate in these programmes.
:24:58. > :25:00.There are many countries who do participate in these projects
:25:01. > :25:05.despite not being part of the EU. It is a misnomer that we are going to
:25:06. > :25:09.be losing more of this. We are not. We will always be good Europeans. We
:25:10. > :25:15.will absolutely still have access to many schemes. Many countries who are
:25:16. > :25:19.not European Union members do have access. There is no reason for
:25:20. > :25:23.concern. We have a proud reputation in education and research. We have
:25:24. > :25:26.been driving many of the research projects. I think with the best will
:25:27. > :25:30.in the world, you need not fear that we will not listen. The young people
:25:31. > :25:36.absolutely must be the core of our future. Should 16 to 18-year-olds be
:25:37. > :25:42.given a say in this election and the next one? Definitely. Labour Party
:25:43. > :25:47.policy for a long time has been to give 16 to 18-year-olds the vote. We
:25:48. > :25:54.tried to get that in the referendum. Did your generation's future at
:25:55. > :25:57.stake. You had no voice. And yet the referendum was carried largely by
:25:58. > :26:02.the vote of older people who sadly will not be around as long as you
:26:03. > :26:06.are. We are rehearsing -- rehashing the old arguments. You can't turn
:26:07. > :26:11.the clock back. Talk of a second referendum is not realistic. What we
:26:12. > :26:15.must have is proper scrutiny in our democracy, in Parliament, of the
:26:16. > :26:19.deal. No blank cheque for Mrs May to do whatever she wants, however
:26:20. > :26:24.destructive, however bad for jobs and prosperity in the south-west, in
:26:25. > :26:28.places like Exeter, I won't allow my people to lose their jobs and
:26:29. > :26:36.prosperity based on the ideology of people like Anne-Marie Morris.
:26:37. > :26:44.It is just what we need, another vote, another election. David
:26:45. > :26:49.Stanbury. Why shouldn't those who own their
:26:50. > :26:53.own homes, which are on average worth a quarter of a million now,
:26:54. > :26:59.pay for their own domiciliary care? Those who could never afford to buy
:27:00. > :27:06.and rent instead, have to pay if they have total assets of more than
:27:07. > :27:10.?23,000. Social care has been a hot topic. Ben Bradshaw? Let's be clear
:27:11. > :27:15.about what the Conservative manifesto proposal is for the
:27:16. > :27:21.so-called dementia tax. It is for anybody with acids are a home worth
:27:22. > :27:25.?100,000 or more, if they are unfortunate to get dementia, they
:27:26. > :27:31.would have to pay the full costs of that over and above the ?100,000.
:27:32. > :27:34.That creates a lottery. If you munch burgers all your life and dropped
:27:35. > :27:40.dead of a heart attack, you don't lose your assets. Your children
:27:41. > :27:43.inherit them. We want a National Care Service like the principles of
:27:44. > :27:49.the NHS where we all pay in a bid through general taxation or a small
:27:50. > :27:53.levy on all of our Estates, posthumous leak after death, that is
:27:54. > :27:59.a fairer way of doing it. It is not a lottery. You are not penalising
:28:00. > :28:03.people unfortunate enough to get a long-term condition. We still don't
:28:04. > :28:06.know the Conservative policy. While Theresa May said they would
:28:07. > :28:10.introduce a cab, you can't have a system with no cup on payments, she
:28:11. > :28:17.then there would be no change. What is it. --? They want us to sign a
:28:18. > :28:22.blank cheque. What other manifesto commitments is worth the paper
:28:23. > :28:26.they're written on. It is unfair policy that is not supported by any
:28:27. > :28:30.experts. I think the Conservatives need to be clear about the
:28:31. > :28:34.proposals, so people worried about their futures and the children
:28:35. > :28:40.worried about their parents' futures are clear what they are voting for.
:28:41. > :28:45.With respect, Ben, I don't think you have interpreted the policy as it
:28:46. > :28:49.is. Where we are now, basically, because social care is means tested,
:28:50. > :28:56.everything you have commented in your home, can be used to meet the
:28:57. > :29:05.cost. What Teresa is suggesting is that there should be a cab. At the
:29:06. > :29:10.other end of the scale if you're renting, and you don't have much by
:29:11. > :29:15.way of assets, you will be left with the last 100,000 to spend. 23,000 is
:29:16. > :29:20.most derisory. It seems to me what she is offering is better, not
:29:21. > :29:28.worse. She is also saying he will not have to sell your home while you
:29:29. > :29:31.are having to -- care. At the moment that is not true. You could be
:29:32. > :29:36.thrown out of your house and it could be sold. That seems to me a
:29:37. > :29:46.good time. You absolutely would keep your home, May. Clearly there needs
:29:47. > :29:50.to be a contribution. But there needs to be a cab. The fact he will
:29:51. > :29:53.not have to sell your house, which you would have to do if the law
:29:54. > :29:58.remains the same, it seems to me is a good thing. This new pulling
:29:59. > :30:05.together of health and social care, more cost. It is going to go on
:30:06. > :30:12.something else. Do you really think that anything should be said -- set
:30:13. > :30:16.at this point? So far we have talked about school cuts and the
:30:17. > :30:20.Conservative plans for those. They are out for consultation. We have
:30:21. > :30:23.been asked to trust you about Brexit and give Theresa May a blank cheque
:30:24. > :30:30.without coming back to Parliament draw the people. Now you say, trust
:30:31. > :30:35.us. And you call this a wicked lottery. I want to be in a country
:30:36. > :30:39.where if you get ill, if you require social care in later years, if you
:30:40. > :30:44.are older and vulnerable, you are looked after by everybody else. That
:30:45. > :30:50.is how we judge our society. How we look after the most weak and
:30:51. > :30:54.vulnerable. Jacqi Hodgson, the Greens would like a confident,
:30:55. > :30:59.caring Britain? Absolutely. That would be based on a fully funded
:31:00. > :31:07.NHS. That includes social care. Where is the money? We wouldn't be
:31:08. > :31:15.funding trident. That brings in a lot of money. There is some disquiet
:31:16. > :31:19.about that. Let's think about how we can fund the NHS properly. We have a
:31:20. > :31:28.fear factor. Everything is based on fear. Fearful of losing a education.
:31:29. > :31:31.A headmaster said in two years he does know what is bound to happen to
:31:32. > :31:37.the school. People are worried about losing their hospitals. This social
:31:38. > :31:40.care has put the fear of everything into people who are carers, the
:31:41. > :31:43.people there a time to look after. People will not want to lean on
:31:44. > :31:47.their families because they will be trying to cut the costs. It is one
:31:48. > :31:53.mess on top of another. I think it is not reasonable. To take the
:31:54. > :31:56.attitude, people of God to pay, we are already paying through income
:31:57. > :32:01.tax and national insurance, through local rates. We are paying all sorts
:32:02. > :32:08.of different funding. To suggest if you wanted you have to pay more. It
:32:09. > :32:13.cuts through society. A devastating death tax, you have called it? The
:32:14. > :32:16.important thing we have to understand is we are facing a
:32:17. > :32:21.massive demographic crisis. Keeping the health service and social care
:32:22. > :32:25.separate is ludicrous. We have to integrate them because they are the
:32:26. > :32:29.same, quite clearly. Then we have to admit the size of the problem that
:32:30. > :32:34.we have got. That is to do with a rising population are an ageing
:32:35. > :32:39.population and a massive increase in people were going to suffer from
:32:40. > :32:43.dementia in the next 20 to 30 years. We have to confront this. The Ukip
:32:44. > :32:48.manifesto basically says we will get money from anywhere we can find it,
:32:49. > :32:56.and we will put it all there, basically. Because even that, and
:32:57. > :33:00.that is 34 million over the next five years, 34 billion, even that is
:33:01. > :33:04.barely going to help us to cope with the situation we're in. And when we
:33:05. > :33:10.talk about funding this problem, what we are talking about is you
:33:11. > :33:16.guys funding it. You young people funding it. This is a one-off deal,
:33:17. > :33:22.this thing with the houses. All the houses get sold but you are still
:33:23. > :33:26.paying. And how do you build up the wealth to do that again in your
:33:27. > :33:30.term? There is a massive crisis and we need to understand this is about
:33:31. > :33:33.supply and demand. It is about the promise of the health service and a
:33:34. > :33:38.demographic issue we have to confront. There is nothing more
:33:39. > :33:42.important. I work in a private company that
:33:43. > :33:49.offers services for the NHS. I can see that all the time the NHS is on
:33:50. > :33:55.its knees. Just by saying that, taxpayers will pay for everyone is
:33:56. > :33:59.alive. To be clear, let's use that word politicians like, there are
:34:00. > :34:02.just two parties who will form government. The Conservatives and
:34:03. > :34:09.Labour. Labour proved after 13 years in power that they can borrow
:34:10. > :34:15.better. Give a lot of free and don't ask for anything in return. And in
:34:16. > :34:20.the end, they had a letter saying, there is no more money. Then we had
:34:21. > :34:29.the Conservatives. They came, they stopped funds. So now I say between
:34:30. > :34:35.Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May there is no match. We need someone who
:34:36. > :34:39.says, guys I'm going to give you something but take something in
:34:40. > :34:45.return. As the government has said from year one, they always said, a
:34:46. > :34:55.country needs to leave -- live within its means. So I am
:34:56. > :35:01.conservative. I was Conservative before. I am now and will always be.
:35:02. > :35:06.I cannot see anybody else to leave the country better than Theresa May.
:35:07. > :35:13.Ben Bradshaw. Change this gentleman's mind? Good for you, sir.
:35:14. > :35:17.After 13 years of Labour government public satisfaction with the NHS was
:35:18. > :35:22.at record levels, waiting times were at record lows and staff morale at
:35:23. > :35:27.record highs. That has gone into reverse under the Conservatives. For
:35:28. > :35:30.11 of those years until the global financial crash, this country
:35:31. > :35:33.enjoyed the longest period of sustainable economic growth and
:35:34. > :35:41.rising living standards in our history.
:35:42. > :35:46.I would like to point out the size of the PFI debt we were saddled with
:35:47. > :35:51.at the end of that process. Which you are going to pay for. That is
:35:52. > :36:00.called a mortgage. Have you ever had one? We're running out of time. That
:36:01. > :36:03.is clearly an important topic. Listening to radio Devon and radio
:36:04. > :36:10.Cornwall it is a distressing one as well. Let's go to Tricia.
:36:11. > :36:18.Given that the South West has high property prices but relatively low
:36:19. > :36:22.wage levels, how are my two sons supposed to get a foot on the
:36:23. > :36:28.property ladder? They would not have a problem meeting the monthly
:36:29. > :36:31.repayments, but they have a problem getting banks or building societies
:36:32. > :36:37.to lend them the amounts of money they need around here to buy a house
:36:38. > :36:41.of their own. What is your solution, please? Jacqi Hodgson. You must
:36:42. > :36:50.speak to young people every day and, across this? Ideal and I am about
:36:51. > :36:56.planning. -- I do. We are driving our young people away from the
:36:57. > :37:02.south-west. I think it is wrong. The planning framework that came out in
:37:03. > :37:05.2010 is a developer's Charter. We need more houses but we don't need
:37:06. > :37:14.the type of houses that our high cost. The so-called affordable are
:37:15. > :37:17.about 80% of the housing prices. Young people will not get a foot on
:37:18. > :37:21.the ladder. The landlords are laughing all the way to the bank.
:37:22. > :37:26.They can buy these houses and rent them out at higher rents. We have to
:37:27. > :37:29.find ways to improve this so we actually improve the planning
:37:30. > :37:33.framework. The planning framework needs to be looked at. We have to
:37:34. > :37:39.make it more possible to have more creative planning. For example,
:37:40. > :37:43.developers can come in, greenfield sites, but in big amounts of money.
:37:44. > :37:50.After the costings have happened, they can add on 25% to the profit
:37:51. > :37:54.they walk away with at the end. Who pays the price? We don't get the
:37:55. > :37:58.social housing and we barely get the affordable housing. The joint local
:37:59. > :38:02.plan is recommending only 30% of that is affordable. We need far more
:38:03. > :38:08.than that. It was 60% in rural areas. I agree with every word of
:38:09. > :38:11.that. There are two the things we need to do. The first is allowed
:38:12. > :38:21.councils to build council houses again. -- allow. The Conservatives
:38:22. > :38:23.stop this happening by preventing local authorities from being able to
:38:24. > :38:29.borrow money to build council houses. It is an easy change. It is
:38:30. > :38:32.something Anne-Marie Green could commit the government to today if
:38:33. > :38:37.she wanted. I'm quite sure she won't. We need to build more council
:38:38. > :38:41.homes. The second thing we need to do is tackle the issue that the lady
:38:42. > :38:45.raised of affordability on a monthly basis. That is why the Liberal
:38:46. > :38:48.Democrats are talking about a rent to buy scheme, where we have a new
:38:49. > :38:52.type of housing, a new tenure, so you pay your rent each month and
:38:53. > :38:57.already 30 years of that period you increase your equity in a house.
:38:58. > :39:01.Similar to a mortgage, clearly, but not quite a mortgage. A new way of
:39:02. > :39:06.enabling younger people to buy homes. This is a real problem. In
:39:07. > :39:13.Cornwall, in my constituency, the gap is ten times the average house
:39:14. > :39:16.price to the average salary. There is a generation of young people who
:39:17. > :39:21.will never be able to get onto the housing ladder unless we take
:39:22. > :39:24.significant action. Anne-Marie Morris, this is a desperate
:39:25. > :39:28.situation for many people. What are you going to do? The White Paper
:39:29. > :39:33.came out before the election looking at this issue. Just like social
:39:34. > :39:37.care, actually. We have been brave enough to say there are problems,
:39:38. > :39:44.let's face up to them. Housing is a real issue. The issue for your
:39:45. > :39:51.youngsters is accepted and taken on board. Supply and demand, you need
:39:52. > :39:55.to increase the number of houses. We have a strategy to build more
:39:56. > :39:59.houses. We build more than Labour did, though I'm sure they would
:40:00. > :40:02.dispute that. That said, what we need to do is find ways of
:40:03. > :40:06.encouraging developers to build. Historically we have encouraged them
:40:07. > :40:18.when they are building to buy rather than rent. We are going to stop them
:40:19. > :40:22.taking land and developing it. There are a number of different schemes.
:40:23. > :40:26.We are building more social housing. And I mean social rather than
:40:27. > :40:29.affordable. The scheme behind that will enable youngsters to get their
:40:30. > :40:32.feet on the housing ladder. They will go in and rent first and over
:40:33. > :40:36.time they will be given the option to buy. It will be recycled.
:40:37. > :40:43.Whatever then gets bored, gets recycled. I don't honestly think the
:40:44. > :40:47.councils should become experts in house-building. Councils should
:40:48. > :40:58.organise and ensure the right things are done. Housing associations do a
:40:59. > :41:03.pretty bloody good job. Steve Crowther. We must hear from Steve
:41:04. > :41:08.Crowther. Do you agree with this? No. It's very clear that there are a
:41:09. > :41:13.number of fundamental things we have to do in this market. We have to
:41:14. > :41:15.take it out of the hands of large developers. Large developers have
:41:16. > :41:18.been the engine for the government's policy analyst billing for the last
:41:19. > :41:22.seven years, and it has completely failed. Basically they have
:41:23. > :41:30.sophisticated means of getting planning permission, banking large
:41:31. > :41:33.amount of planning land and deciding not to build. We have to make small
:41:34. > :41:39.developers build small developments. We also have to do something which
:41:40. > :41:42.doesn't cut out the value, take value out of the existing housing
:41:43. > :41:46.market. If we take value out of the existing housing market by flooding
:41:47. > :41:49.the market with new houses that compete with the existing housing
:41:50. > :41:54.market, who will pay for the social care? We can't just dropped
:41:55. > :41:58.everybody's Wealth by saying we are bound to make everybody's has
:41:59. > :42:04.cheaper. We need a new tranche of housing. We need to create a new
:42:05. > :42:12.tranche of cheaper but now very much better factory built housing that
:42:13. > :42:14.can be built through a national housing development Corporation and
:42:15. > :42:20.compulsorily purchased land on small plots where they are needed, and
:42:21. > :42:26.built using skills needed locally, providing jobs and houses locally.
:42:27. > :42:29.If you can do that on average, somebody in a ?26,000 salary would
:42:30. > :42:33.be able to buy their own two-bedroom home. That would create the answer
:42:34. > :42:35.to the problem because it is putting the bottom rung of the ladder back
:42:36. > :42:43.in, without actually destroying the ladder. Perfect solution, Ben
:42:44. > :42:48.Bradshaw? I agree with much of that. Anne-Marie Green talks about a white
:42:49. > :42:55.paper. That is another consultation. You have had seven years. This is
:42:56. > :42:59.the biggest issue facing my constituents in the south-west.
:43:00. > :43:04.Housing affordability. We have to free up local authorities to build
:43:05. > :43:08.more houses. We have to do more to control the private rental sector. A
:43:09. > :43:13.lot of people are forced into the private rental sector. Extortionate
:43:14. > :43:17.rents. Even in America they have rent controls. We have to tackle
:43:18. > :43:23.that. It is not fair and future generations. And indeed the parents
:43:24. > :43:32.having to put up with it. 60,000 people in the south-west are for a
:43:33. > :43:35.council house or affordable home. We don't have any more time at all. We
:43:36. > :43:41.could talk about many more things. Thank you to are panellists and our
:43:42. > :43:43.audience. Hopefully we have answered some of your questions. Like you for
:43:44. > :44:03.joining us. Thanks everybody. APPLAUSE.
:44:04. > :44:07.Hear the arguments from the politicians themselves.