16/06/2011

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:00:10. > :00:19.A new leader for Al-Qaeda vows to continue the war on America and its

:00:19. > :00:29.time lieutenant to Osama Bin Laden, is officially taking over the

:00:29. > :00:33.

:00:33. > :00:35.Welcome to GMT. I'm Naga Munchetty. Also in the programme:

:00:35. > :00:43.Fighting the financial crisis in Greece - the outcome could

:00:43. > :00:49.determine the future of the European single currency.

:00:49. > :00:55.TRANSLATION: It is everyone's duty to do everything needed to

:00:55. > :01:03.safeguard the stability of the euro. The weird and wonderful world of

:01:03. > :01:06.animation - a new London exhibit looks back at 150 years of the art.

:01:06. > :01:16.It's 12:30pm here in London, 2:30pm in Athens and a time of change for

:01:16. > :01:19.Al-Qaeda. Ayman Al-Zawahiri, a long time associate of Osama Bin Laden

:01:19. > :01:23.and sometimes described as "the real brains of Al-Qaeda", has taken

:01:23. > :01:25.over the reigns of the organisation. The announcement was posted on an

:01:25. > :01:28.Islamist website accompanied by a promise to continue what Al-Qaeda

:01:28. > :01:38.calls "the holy war" against the United States, Israel and their

:01:38. > :01:39.

:01:39. > :01:44.allies. Peter Biles reports. It had been widely anticipated that

:01:44. > :01:49.Ayman Al-Zawahiri would replace Osama Bin Laden as the head of boss

:01:49. > :01:53.-- of Al-Qaeda. He had long been Bin Laden's right hand man and the

:01:53. > :01:57.person thought to be the brains behind the 9/11 attacks in the

:01:57. > :02:01.United States nearly a decade ago. The only surprise about the

:02:01. > :02:09.succession is perhaps how long it has taken since the killing of Bin

:02:09. > :02:16.Laden in early May. Since 96, they were very close to each other. I

:02:16. > :02:20.believe it is a natural move and expected from Al-Qaeda. They needed

:02:20. > :02:26.time to establish Al-Zawahiri as the leader and sort out differences

:02:26. > :02:31.within the group. This is what we expected Al-Qaeda to do.

:02:31. > :02:35.Ayman Al-Zawahiri was born in 1951 to a wealthy family in Cairo. He

:02:35. > :02:40.studied medicine and in 1978, received a master's degree in

:02:40. > :02:45.surgery. A year later, he set up the Egyptian Jihad, which was

:02:45. > :02:51.subsequently involved in the assassination of Anwar Sadat. He

:02:51. > :02:56.made his way to Afghanistan in 1980, when he met Osama Bin Laden.

:02:56. > :03:00.Under new leadership, Al-Qaeda has warned it will continue its fight.

:03:00. > :03:05.The organisation has been on the defensive since the Arab uprising

:03:06. > :03:09.of recent months. But Ayman Al- Zawahiri remains as hostile to the

:03:09. > :03:15.West as his predecessor, Osama Bin Laden.

:03:15. > :03:17.Let's get some more on this new Al- Qaeda leader. We're joined by our

:03:17. > :03:22.security correspondent, Frank Gardner.

:03:22. > :03:27.What makes him different, what does he bring to Al-Qaeda? In many ways,

:03:27. > :03:31.no big change. He has been more or less operationally in charge of Al-

:03:31. > :03:35.Qaeda for the last eight years. We have seen him in the videos most of

:03:35. > :03:40.the time, his most recent one was only a week ago, in which he was

:03:40. > :03:44.setting himself up as the leader. Bin Laden has really been in hiding,

:03:44. > :03:49.far less in evidence. His background is that of Egyptian

:03:49. > :03:55.Islamic Jihad. He has got very good connections with Egyptian Islamists,

:03:55. > :04:01.many of whom have been released since the Arab uprising. It is the

:04:01. > :04:05.challenge is that a lot of people will focus on, that he faces. It is

:04:05. > :04:12.a very disparate organisation under a lot of pressure. They have lost

:04:12. > :04:17.Osama Bin Laden, Kashmiri, Abdul Muhammad, three major leaders from

:04:17. > :04:21.the Al-Qaeda et diaspora in the last few weeks. It may be that this

:04:21. > :04:26.man may not even last this long, because the intelligence is now

:04:26. > :04:30.getting so good at tracking people down. There will be enormous

:04:30. > :04:34.pressure on the Pentagon and CIA to find him. At the same time, Al-

:04:34. > :04:39.Qaeda is under pressure to demonstrate its power. One of the

:04:39. > :04:43.problems this man faces is trying to exert some kind of authority

:04:43. > :04:47.over the various branches. You have them in Yemen, doing their own

:04:48. > :04:51.thing. You have them in North Africa, involved in kidnapping and

:04:51. > :04:55.hostage demands was that you have Al-Qaeda and affiliates in other

:04:55. > :04:58.parts. What will be the relationship in Afghanistan? If

:04:58. > :05:02.there is going to be a peace deal between the Afghan government and

:05:02. > :05:12.Taliban, will that involve getting rid of Al-Qaeda and not allowing

:05:12. > :05:18.them to come aboard? He has a lot Top as a character, Osama Bin Laden

:05:18. > :05:22.had carried to, does he bring this? I don't think you could accuse of -

:05:22. > :05:26.- Al-Zawahiri of having a lot of character, he is very dry and

:05:26. > :05:34.dictatorial. I have not met him, this is what people have said. He

:05:34. > :05:39.is not somebody who has that X Factor, that magic touch... I know

:05:39. > :05:45.he is anathema to most people but those who admired Osama Bin Laden

:05:45. > :05:49.said he had, weirdly, a personal gentleness. He invited the media to

:05:49. > :05:55.interview him 15 years ago, lots of people did. BBC were invited but we

:05:55. > :05:59.left it a bit late. Lots of other networks interviewed him with

:05:59. > :06:03.impunity. His message, although it was of great violence and hostility

:06:03. > :06:09.and confrontation and destruction, nevertheless, on a personal basis,

:06:09. > :06:16.people found him quite engage in -- engaging. They have not said that

:06:16. > :06:20.about Al-Zawahiri. He spent time in London, a man Al-Zawahiri. He was

:06:20. > :06:30.involved in the SAT assassination - - Ayman Al-Zawahiri. His mind set

:06:30. > :06:33.

:06:33. > :06:39.He has all the fire and zealotry of a young revolutionary and

:06:39. > :06:43.reactionary, but he is not that popular, with some of the Gulf

:06:43. > :06:49.operatives, who may find it tricky paying allegiance to an Egyptian,

:06:49. > :06:52.where they found it eg to -- easy to pay allegiance to a Saudi, in

:06:52. > :06:56.Bin Laden. While one militant leader is

:06:56. > :06:59.promoted, another has been jailed. The Indonesian radical Muslim

:06:59. > :07:03.cleric, Abu Bakar Bashir, has been given a 15-year sentence for

:07:03. > :07:06.helping to organise an Islamic militant group. A court in the

:07:06. > :07:08.capital, Jakarta, found him guilty of providing thousands of dollars

:07:08. > :07:13.to a militant training camp, uncovered last year in Aceh

:07:13. > :07:21.province. Our correspondent, Karishma Vaswani, reports from

:07:21. > :07:26.Jakarta. The verdict in the Abu Bakar Bashir

:07:26. > :07:30.trial has been delivered. Police came out in full force today, as

:07:30. > :07:35.you can see. They are getting ready to leave the court house, where the

:07:35. > :07:39.verdict was delivered. In the lead- up to the announcement, there were

:07:39. > :07:43.a number of concerns about security in Jakarta. There were text

:07:43. > :07:47.messages and Twitter messages circulating, saying there would be

:07:47. > :07:52.violent repercussions if Abu Bakar Bashir received a harsh or severe

:07:52. > :07:57.sentence. He got 15 years in jail, prosecutors had demanded a life

:07:57. > :08:02.sentence. His lawyers have said they will contest this verdict how

:08:02. > :08:06.much are an effect this decision will have on Indonesia's ability to

:08:06. > :08:10.fight terror is still debatable. People we have spoken to have said

:08:10. > :08:14.Mr Bashir will continue to be active, even if he is behind bars.

:08:14. > :08:17.He is believed to be the spiritual influence behind radical Islamic

:08:17. > :08:24.groups in the country, and it is likely he will continue to preach

:08:24. > :08:29.his message, turning Indonesia into an Islamic state even while he is

:08:29. > :08:31.in prison. Let's take a look at some of the

:08:31. > :08:33.other stories making headlines around the world today.

:08:33. > :08:37.The Greek prime minister, George Papandreou, is preparing to

:08:37. > :08:39.announce a new cabinet and seek a vote of confidence to allow him to

:08:39. > :08:42.continue in office. Mr Papandreou needs support for his austerity

:08:42. > :08:45.programme to stop the country defaulting on its debts, but he's

:08:45. > :08:48.facing a revolt among some of his own PASOK party, and police had

:08:48. > :08:55.running battles with protesters in Athens. From there, Malcolm Brabant

:08:55. > :09:00.reports. There's little doubt that people

:09:00. > :09:03.power contributed to the sudden collapse of George Papandreou's

:09:03. > :09:08.administration. It wasn't the rioters who were involved in some

:09:08. > :09:11.of the worst violence seen in Greece in over a year, but the

:09:11. > :09:15.indignant movement, which represented such a cross section of

:09:15. > :09:19.the country's society. Its daily peaceful protests touched the

:09:19. > :09:23.consciousness of socialists Members of Parliament, who could not

:09:23. > :09:28.stomach the members -- the prospect of passing you swingeing austerity

:09:28. > :09:33.measures. A few of them gathered outside Parliament, as Mr

:09:33. > :09:37.Papandreou prepared to select a new cabinet. TRANSLATION: The issue

:09:37. > :09:42.isn't if one or another ends up minister, the issue is that we

:09:42. > :09:46.finally see a substantial way to deal with these problems.

:09:46. > :09:50.TRANSLATION: I would like elections, there is no other solution. Pantry

:09:50. > :09:56.you cannot do what he wants, he does not have the right to do as he

:09:56. > :10:00.wishes -- Papandreou cannot do what he wants. It has alarmed partners

:10:00. > :10:05.in the eurozone and President Sarkozy was one of the first

:10:05. > :10:10.leaders to call for stability. TRANSLATION: What we need most

:10:10. > :10:16.today is unity. We need to move on from these national quarrels and

:10:16. > :10:20.get back to the sense of our common destiny. I call on everyone to show

:10:20. > :10:24.the spirit of responsibility, and sense of compromise on which Europe

:10:24. > :10:29.has been built. The international financial markets

:10:29. > :10:33.were contemplating a second bobbly day in succession, with some

:10:33. > :10:37.analysts warning of the danger of the Greek disease infecting other

:10:37. > :10:43.imperilled European economies. One of Greece's most respected

:10:43. > :10:49.broadsheet newspapers, lambasted as a political farce Mr Papandreou's

:10:49. > :10:59.failed attempt to form a government of unity. A leading comp --

:10:59. > :11:04.

:11:04. > :11:08.To add to Mr Papandreou's embarrassment, a leading

:11:08. > :11:12.backbencher has resigned from the party. This will not affect his

:11:12. > :11:17.majority in parliament because the Socialists will hang on to the seat,

:11:17. > :11:22.but it indicates that Mr Papac Deri will have a difficult task trying

:11:22. > :11:25.to win a vote of confidence on Sunday -- Mr Papandreou will have a

:11:25. > :11:27.difficult task. Joining us via webcam from the

:11:27. > :11:32.Greek capital is Constantine Michalos, the Chairman of the

:11:32. > :11:37.Athens Chamber of Commerce. Thank you for joining me. We were

:11:37. > :11:42.hearing from our reporter the Prime Minister's position is tenuous, to

:11:42. > :11:48.say the least. A vote of confidence on Sunday isn't guaranteed. What do

:11:48. > :11:53.you think? Absolutely. To add to the report but we have just heard,

:11:53. > :11:59.there has been another three resignations in the last hour and a

:11:59. > :12:03.half from the governing party MPs. They have called for the

:12:03. > :12:09.parliamentary group of the governing party to meet later today,

:12:09. > :12:14.4:00pm Greek time. I think, at the end of the day, there will be a

:12:14. > :12:20.ballot, which will be set, so a new leader will be elected. It is

:12:20. > :12:24.extremely difficult, that there will be a vote of confidence with

:12:24. > :12:29.the present Prime Minister on Sunday. I have to agree with your

:12:29. > :12:31.reporter, it was criminal management, what happened yesterday.

:12:31. > :12:37.Because this comes at a very difficult time for the Greek

:12:37. > :12:41.economy, the Great Society. What is required is responsibility and

:12:41. > :12:46.seriousness. Unfortunately, for the last two-and-a-half months, we have

:12:46. > :12:50.been missing both. While this turmoil continues, do you envisage

:12:50. > :12:55.any agreement between the political parties, even if a new leadership

:12:55. > :13:00.is established? We have always advocated that consensus is the key

:13:00. > :13:10.word, in order to combat this situation that the Greek economy

:13:10. > :13:18.finds itself in. Yesterday, we saw an extremely erroneous management

:13:18. > :13:24.by the Prime Minister, and I think that what must happen in the next

:13:24. > :13:29.few days is that the serious political persons from both of the

:13:29. > :13:34.two large parties increased must find a way to move towards

:13:34. > :13:39.consensus, to have a coalition government, so that early next week,

:13:39. > :13:44.there will be a representation in Brussels, so that they can

:13:44. > :13:51.rearrange, or reallocate the austerity programme that has been

:13:51. > :13:55.dictated by the IMF and the European partners. We are seeing

:13:56. > :14:01.pictures of protests on Wednesday, do you think the protesters will be

:14:01. > :14:06.appeased by some political stability? I think everyone wants

:14:06. > :14:09.political stability. The people that are out on the streets, the

:14:09. > :14:16.so-called indignant movement, that has been demonstrating for the last

:14:17. > :14:22.20 days. Also, the market forces in Greece. As I said, for the last

:14:22. > :14:27.two-and-a-half months, we haven't seen any reforms. There hasn't been

:14:27. > :14:33.any sort of governmental effort, in order to solve the problems. The

:14:33. > :14:37.only thing we are hearing of his measures, measures, measures, as

:14:37. > :14:43.far as taxation is concerned. If you don't enhance growth measures

:14:43. > :14:48.into your economy, it is impossible to expect any economy, however

:14:48. > :14:52.strong it may be, to produce the necessary results. We need to have

:14:52. > :14:56.a different mixture of economic policy. It is something the Leader

:14:56. > :15:02.of the Opposition has indicated, both to the Prime Minister and the

:15:02. > :15:07.Greek people. I think we have defined a solution, combining the

:15:07. > :15:12.necessary reforms that are dictated by are EU partners, but at the same

:15:13. > :15:16.time, enhancing the necessary growth measures, so we will exit

:15:16. > :15:26.this tunnel of crisis that we are living through during the last two

:15:26. > :15:26.

:15:26. > :15:30.In other news, hackers have attacked Malaysian government

:15:30. > :15:35.websites, disrupting more than 40 sites. The attacks follow

:15:35. > :15:38.allegations that Malaysia is trying to curb internet freedom. The anti-

:15:38. > :15:43.censorship group anonymise had threatened to attack the Website

:15:43. > :15:46.after the Internet watchdog blocked 10 last week in an attempt to

:15:46. > :15:49.combat piracy. Fights between Australia and New

:15:49. > :15:54.Zealand have again been grounded because of volcanic ash from chilly.

:15:54. > :15:58.Tens of thousands of passengers have been delayed since the Puyehue

:15:58. > :16:04.began erupting almost two weeks ago. Qantas says that some flights to

:16:04. > :16:09.New Zealand could resume on Friday. Still to come on GMT: Diplomatic

:16:09. > :16:14.manoeuvres. Is there a peaceful outcome for Libya where Colonel

:16:14. > :16:19.Gaddafi stays but power changes hands?

:16:19. > :16:23.First, time for the business news. We have been talking about Greece.

:16:23. > :16:27.You are definitely talking about Greece. His defaults are

:16:27. > :16:33.inevitable? Many will say so. It's gone from messy to dangerously

:16:33. > :16:38.disastrous. You have eurozone leaders, to this hour, still unable

:16:38. > :16:42.to agree on how to rescue Greece. In Greece itself, you are talking

:16:42. > :16:48.with a country with a junk status credit rating, the worst in the

:16:48. > :16:52.world. It is paying interest on its debt at 18.5%. That is crippling.

:16:53. > :16:56.The banking stocks are down to a 15 year low, that has sent markets

:16:56. > :17:02.down. Investors are thinking of just one thing, that Greece will

:17:02. > :17:07.default. The problem is that it's no longer a Greek problem, it's no

:17:07. > :17:11.longer a European problem. It's a global problem. Listen to this.

:17:11. > :17:15.Greek debt is the new subprime. If Greece goes down, there's a good

:17:15. > :17:20.chance that other European countries hit the rocks, Portugal

:17:20. > :17:25.and peripheral countries. You have a huge amount of effectively dodgy

:17:25. > :17:30.government debt. The market wrongly used to think that was safe, just

:17:30. > :17:34.as was the case with subprime debt from America. If one country starts

:17:34. > :17:37.to default, the entire financial system will be hit badly. That is a

:17:37. > :17:41.scary warning. The worry is contagion and the impact on banks

:17:41. > :17:46.around Europe, bags around the world and the impact on us as

:17:47. > :17:51.consumers. We are going to have a busy few days. The debate has

:17:51. > :17:57.always been if you are iPhone or BlackBerry. The name we don't

:17:57. > :18:02.always throw around his awry m, the company behind BlackBerry? Before

:18:02. > :18:06.the iPhone, before Google Android, there was BlackBerry. It is still

:18:06. > :18:09.probably be go to devise for businesses. But the share price

:18:09. > :18:14.does not reflect that. It's fallen 40% since the beginning of this

:18:15. > :18:17.year. Why? They launched a new tablet device and it got mixed

:18:17. > :18:21.reviews. It's the devices they haven't launched yet that is

:18:21. > :18:26.causing the problems. They promised a family of smart phones, but they

:18:26. > :18:32.keep getting delayed. That's not good when you're trying to complete

:18:32. > :18:35.-- compete against Apple and Android. There is one good news

:18:35. > :18:43.story out of this. The good news is the developing markets, they have

:18:43. > :18:47.been doing very well there. The other interesting thing, I've been

:18:47. > :18:56.in the Middle East, and the youth set-up BlackBerry Messenger to set

:18:56. > :19:04.up dates. 80 Kloss -- 8 o'clock dinner, tonight... Our way back on

:19:04. > :19:08.air? A quick flash of the markets. BRITs is the worry. Have if you

:19:08. > :19:15.would like to get in touch with us, tell us your thoughts on anything

:19:15. > :19:25.you have heard or seen, had to our You can watch the highlights from

:19:25. > :19:30.

:19:30. > :19:35.You are watching GMT. The headlines this hour: The war goes on. Defiant

:19:35. > :19:40.rhetoric from Al-Qaeda as Ayman Al- Zawahiri takes over following the

:19:40. > :19:43.killing of Osama Bin Laden. Protests against austerity measures

:19:43. > :19:52.continue in Greece as the Prime Minister prepares to reshuffle his

:19:52. > :19:54.cabinet to deal with the debt A Russian envoy says he can

:19:54. > :19:58.envisage a future for Libya where Colonel Gaddafi remains in the

:19:58. > :20:05.country but power moves to the opposition. The Russian President's

:20:05. > :20:09.Special Representative for Africa made the comment in an exclusive

:20:09. > :20:14.interview with the BBC Middle East editor in Tripoli. This is ahead of

:20:14. > :20:19.his meeting with senior members of the Libyan government. If there is

:20:19. > :20:23.a kind of national reconciliation in Libya, if Gaddafi is involved in

:20:24. > :20:28.that process, all options are open for the time being. You're saying

:20:28. > :20:32.he could stay in the country, but you want him to leave power?

:20:32. > :20:37.only Russia, I think. I think all of the international community

:20:37. > :20:43.understands pretty well that Colonel Gaddafi lost his

:20:43. > :20:48.credibility after he started bombing civilians. We understand

:20:48. > :20:55.very clearly that, if he is a responsible person, and we hope he

:20:55. > :20:58.is a responsible person, he should undertake urgent measures to start

:20:58. > :21:04.the process of national reconciliation. People in the

:21:04. > :21:08.regime, including his son, have talked about elections and reforms,

:21:08. > :21:11.but with Colonel Gaddafi staying in the country. Major says he must go

:21:11. > :21:20.and then other things must be talked about. What does Russia

:21:20. > :21:26.want? -- NATO. I've been to Benghazi. I met with the National

:21:26. > :21:31.Council, up almost all of the leaders. In Cairo, I met with

:21:32. > :21:35.Gaddafi's cousin, who also represents part of the Libyan elite.

:21:35. > :21:41.I think the general consensus in the Libyan elite is that Gaddafi

:21:41. > :21:44.should go. With all my respect to the position of NATO, with all my

:21:44. > :21:49.respect to the position of the world leaders that represent the

:21:49. > :21:54.great -- G8 and talked about Libya a lot, the key factor is what

:21:54. > :21:59.Libyans think about the future of Libya. My feeling is that they

:21:59. > :22:01.think about it without Gaddafi as a political leader.

:22:01. > :22:06.Time for something completely different. Fans of cartoons from

:22:06. > :22:11.Astro Boy to Betty Boop are in for a treat if they are in London over

:22:11. > :22:14.the next few months. The Barbican Art Gallery has trawled the

:22:14. > :22:18.archives of 150 years of animation for a new exhibition it is

:22:18. > :22:23.launching this week. Called Watch Me Move, it features animated

:22:23. > :22:29.classics including Mickey Mouse, Tom and Jerry and the Flintstones.

:22:29. > :22:34.As well as more experimental and sometimes unusual works by

:22:34. > :22:44.independent artists. We can take a look at one of them now. It is

:22:44. > :23:01.

:23:01. > :23:05.Joining me now is the Watch Me Move creator, Greg Hilty. We are already

:23:05. > :23:09.talking because it is so exciting, so different. What was the

:23:09. > :23:12.inspiration? The Barbican has done a lot of exhibitions about broad

:23:12. > :23:17.visual culture, but we thought animation really needed to be seen.

:23:17. > :23:24.It so pervasive, it's everywhere. It is on websites, Baba phones,

:23:24. > :23:29.it's an incredibly expressive and artistic tool. How easy is it to

:23:29. > :23:35.collect the correct footage? easy at all. We have been working

:23:35. > :23:39.for three years on this project, it's got about 180 works. We have

:23:39. > :23:45.had specialists choosing and I have had my own team of experts in terms

:23:45. > :23:55.of my family. It really is for everybody. There is work from

:23:55. > :23:55.

:23:55. > :24:02.Japanese animation, drawer, I have to credit my daughter with bringing

:24:02. > :24:09.in Tron. Mainly it is an exhibition of films, but we got some fantastic

:24:09. > :24:13.objects. There are toys, models from 1929 feature film animations.

:24:13. > :24:21.I know it is not all light-hearted. There's another clip that I want

:24:21. > :24:28.our viewers to see, called A Is For Autism. Sometimes, my shell-likes

:24:28. > :24:32.distort the teacher's instructions, or my eyes Blur to stop me seeing

:24:32. > :24:35.the blackboard. Sometimes I won't hear a few words at the start, and

:24:35. > :24:40.the next lot of and words merge into each other. I couldn't make

:24:40. > :24:44.head or tail of it. So, not all fun and games. Then our messages that

:24:44. > :24:48.animation can get across. How important is animation's role in

:24:48. > :24:54.that? I think it's crucial. One thing you see in that clip is that

:24:54. > :24:59.animation, as a medium, provides a series of tools. It's not like

:24:59. > :25:03.there is a clear progression from simple animation to CGI. Artists,

:25:03. > :25:06.animators can delve into the repertoire and bring out what they

:25:06. > :25:11.want for their own expressive purposes. It's interesting the way

:25:11. > :25:15.that animation has come a long over the years. It's been 150 years, we

:25:15. > :25:20.have quite an old clip available for our viewers to save lots of

:25:20. > :25:24.talk to me about this. This is buying Windsor McKay, one of the

:25:24. > :25:28.early pioneers of animation. It's where the title comes from, you saw

:25:28. > :25:33.it at the beginning, Watch Me Move. The early stage of the exhibition

:25:33. > :25:37.is one of the most spectacular, is one of the reasons why it should be

:25:37. > :25:45.in a gallery rather than just on film or television. We have works

:25:45. > :25:49.presented by Edward, it used to be a scientific and entertainment tool.

:25:49. > :25:54.He took pictures of things that could not be visualised before. He

:25:54. > :25:56.also presented them in a kind of projection show, travelling around

:25:56. > :26:00.the country. Animation has always had a sense of engaging with the

:26:00. > :26:04.real world, but also being entertaining and compelling. Even

:26:04. > :26:08.as we watched this, I know it is old compared to what we see now, it

:26:08. > :26:12.does seem timeless. It doesn't seem that animation has to be flashy and

:26:12. > :26:16.impressive all the time to grasp our attention? One of the reasons,

:26:16. > :26:20.it's sometimes seen as a childish thing. People dismiss it, they have

:26:20. > :26:24.been a bit dismissive in terms of high art or high visual culture. I

:26:24. > :26:28.think that's a mistake. I think if people come to the show they will

:26:28. > :26:32.see it is a mistake. Supposedly childish things still have a

:26:32. > :26:39.profound meaning. I'll put you on the spot, give me your favourite

:26:39. > :26:43.one that we should watch? esoteric, I would go for the Tale

:26:43. > :26:47.of Tales, a beautiful, dents, Russian film, made in the 1970s. It