:00:13. > :00:19.Welcome to HARDtalk from Phoenix, Arizona. I'm in an open-air prison
:00:20. > :00:23.known as tent city, it is home to more than 1000 inmates, the section
:00:24. > :00:30.I mean right now is mostly illegal immigrants. This place is the
:00:31. > :00:37.brainchild of my guess is today, the self-styled toughest sheriff in
:00:38. > :00:39.America, drew up I/O. He has stoked a national controversy with his
:00:40. > :00:47.all-out campaign against illegal immigrants -- Joe Arpaio. The United
:00:48. > :00:51.States to Mexico, 100 miles to the south. The question is if his
:00:52. > :01:12.campaign riding roughshod over the US Constitution?
:01:13. > :01:18.Sheriff Joe Arpaio welcome to HARDtalk. In the last few years you
:01:19. > :01:25.have focused your time and resources on the issue of illegal immigration.
:01:26. > :01:28.Why? First of all the talk about resources. I had special grants from
:01:29. > :01:37.the state legislature that helped out. When people talk about I waste
:01:38. > :01:44.my budget going after just illegal aliens, the reason I started
:01:45. > :01:48.focusing on this problem was to new state laws were passed, but no one
:01:49. > :01:53.talks about. They talk about the present controversial calls a 1070
:01:54. > :01:58.law that we had two other laws passed, human smuggling and employer
:01:59. > :02:03.sanctions. So I decided to enforce those laws that happen to be
:02:04. > :02:10.felonies. The laws on talking about. So I started enforcing the human
:02:11. > :02:14.smuggling, arrested over 2000 people coming into our county, Maricopa
:02:15. > :02:22.County, Arizona, and we arrested the smuggler, what they call coyotes,
:02:23. > :02:25.and the co-conspirators. And when you say co-conspirators you regard
:02:26. > :02:31.the people who are being smuggled as co-conspirators? Exactly. We are the
:02:32. > :02:37.only agency doing that. County attorney has prosecuted those cases.
:02:38. > :02:40.94% conviction rate. Why do you think no other authority regards
:02:41. > :02:44.them as co-conspirators and you do and you lock them up? Why do you
:02:45. > :02:50.think the difference is that? That's a good point. Maybe they don't care
:02:51. > :02:54.about enforcing their illegal immigration laws. Maybe they're
:02:55. > :02:58.Chiefs of police have to report to me is all city councils. But a
:02:59. > :03:03.report to anybody but the 4 million people who live in this county. On
:03:04. > :03:07.the elected sure. When you talk about other sheriffs, why they don't
:03:08. > :03:12.do it and we have 15 surest total in Arizona. I don't speak for them. I
:03:13. > :03:16.speak for me and that is what we have been doing. And speaking for
:03:17. > :03:20.yourself, try to tell me how your attitude matches up to the words of
:03:21. > :03:25.a state senator Russell Pearce who has been in the forefront of the
:03:26. > :03:29.political effort to take on the illegal immigrants. He said not so
:03:30. > :03:33.long ago" it is time to circle the wagons against illegal immigrants
:03:34. > :03:39.who are responsible for a crime wave in our state and are stealing our
:03:40. > :03:45.jobs." You bring the same mindset? Russell is a formal law enforcement
:03:46. > :03:49.officer, in fact, there was my chief deputy for a year when I first took
:03:50. > :03:54.office. So he has a lot of experience in law enforcement. Now
:03:55. > :03:59.he is a state senator, politician. But he has been behind many of these
:04:00. > :04:04.laws. That's right. Relating to illegal immigration. They have been
:04:05. > :04:09.involved and upheld by other courts. But leaving aside the legality, and
:04:10. > :04:12.we will get to law 1070 in a minute, but in terms of the mindset to use
:04:13. > :04:17.the illegal immigrants as responsible for a crime wave and for
:04:18. > :04:22.stealing jobs? Well first of all, it doesn't matter, it is a violation of
:04:23. > :04:27.the law. Identical opportunity law enforcing guy, I like everybody up,
:04:28. > :04:32.whether it is cookers or deadbeats or animal cruelty, murders, you name
:04:33. > :04:39.it. It happens to be in the law that time enforcing. So it's... But you
:04:40. > :04:43.have to prioritise. Any lawman has two because you only have limited
:04:44. > :04:47.resources. I just wonder why you have chosen to prioritise
:04:48. > :04:51.immigration issue when looking at the statistics, and am quoting here
:04:52. > :04:54.from the independent immigration policy Institute, they say, I'm
:04:55. > :04:57.quoting them" crime rates are falling in Arizona and research
:04:58. > :05:03.shows immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than the native born."
:05:04. > :05:07.I believe the crime rates are now trying to take credit, nobody gives
:05:08. > :05:12.me credit anyway, the crime has gone down in this county, just about the
:05:13. > :05:16.time I started enforcing the illegal immigration laws, including crime
:05:17. > :05:22.suppression operations. Where we go into certain areas and maybe a rest,
:05:23. > :05:26.what, I'm trying to think of the figures, let's say the average of
:05:27. > :05:31.100 people in a 15 hour were crime... These are your sleeps where
:05:32. > :05:35.you go into, let's be honest about it, Latina communities. I've gone
:05:36. > :05:40.into white communities, different types. I know you have but by and
:05:41. > :05:44.large according to lots of local people I have spoken to, you go into
:05:45. > :05:48.Hispanic and Latina neighbourhood, you sweep through, Deepika people,
:05:49. > :05:51.sometimes on very trivial misdemeanours, and then you check
:05:52. > :05:55.out the immigration status. Well that's not true, we have hit some
:05:56. > :05:59.areas that happen to be Hispanic that there is a high crime rate
:06:00. > :06:04.there still be go into areas where there is a high crime rate, not just
:06:05. > :06:07.into neighbourhoods. We don't go on street corners arresting people
:06:08. > :06:11.because they look like they are from another country. We don't do that.
:06:12. > :06:16.We arrest all types of violators of the law in a crime suppression, from
:06:17. > :06:20.peddlers to warrants that can go on and on. We will get back to that
:06:21. > :06:25.because it gets to the heart of the debate right now about the law 1070
:06:26. > :06:30.in Arizona but before we do, a fundamental point - is not the case
:06:31. > :06:35.that immigration law defining it and implementing it and keeping
:06:36. > :06:38.America's Borders safe, is a Federal government responsibility, not that
:06:39. > :06:44.of the state or of local lawmen such as yourself? I was a Federal
:06:45. > :06:49.official. For almost 28 years, I was the regional director of Mexico-
:06:50. > :06:53.South America, Texas, Arizona for the US drug enforcement, I know
:06:54. > :06:57.whether Mexican border is, I know where the problems are in tech
:06:58. > :07:01.Mexico and other countries... So it isn't a responsibility as Sheriff of
:07:02. > :07:05.Maricopa County. It is my responsibility, I have state laws I
:07:06. > :07:08.am enforcing, I mentioned the two laws we are enforcing, we have an
:07:09. > :07:14.intact before an inherent authority to enforce those laws and we do
:07:15. > :07:18.enforce the bank robberies, ATF, FBI, for law enforcement does,
:07:19. > :07:22.enforce federal laws in this country. But as you know much better
:07:23. > :07:26.than me when the Federal courts, the district court look at the Arizona
:07:27. > :07:32.and so-called SP 1070, the bill which would be new powers for
:07:33. > :07:37.policing and checking immigration status of people, the district court
:07:38. > :07:42.decided that this was fundamentally a Federal issue and that it blocked
:07:43. > :07:46.some of the powers that were designed to go to the police here in
:07:47. > :07:52.Arizona. That is the district Court, it is the PO, I assume, it will go
:07:53. > :07:56.to the Supreme Court, there has been other rulings that Google law
:07:57. > :08:00.enforcement can enforce the federal immigration laws so this is one
:08:01. > :08:04.judge's opinion, it hasn't affected my operations, I'm still to bring
:08:05. > :08:10.the same thing, I've been doing it for 30 years, nothing has changed
:08:11. > :08:14.with me. You of course as Sheriff responsible for the security, the
:08:15. > :08:18.well-being of the community. You are a community figure. As a worry that
:08:19. > :08:21.so many figures in your own community and thinking about local
:08:22. > :08:27.offices of the National Council of Civil Liberties, the Hispanic legal
:08:28. > :08:31.and human rights movement, they are all absolutely adamant that the way
:08:32. > :08:37.you interpret the law right now and even more so the new law 1070, are a
:08:38. > :08:43.fundamental violation of rights and would drive to quote them "A wedge
:08:44. > :08:50.between racial communities." First of all, if you say so many people in
:08:51. > :08:54.the community, my poles are usually 80% said you were talking about a
:08:55. > :08:59.small group of people. Your poles recently haven't been anywhere near
:09:00. > :09:03.80%, the most recent one I saw your favourability rate was down to the
:09:04. > :09:07.high 30s or low 40s. That was two years ago by a pollster, if you read
:09:08. > :09:11.the polls it was 56%, you are talking about an old poll, let's
:09:12. > :09:15.talk about current polls that have bit over 80%. Sir you were going
:09:16. > :09:21.back to garbage that was printed two years ago, some pollster that
:09:22. > :09:25.doesn't like me, but it doesn't matter, I know what my poles are, I
:09:26. > :09:30.know what my support is. I know all the money I have raised for the next
:09:31. > :09:34.election, millions of dollars, evidently someone likes what I'm
:09:35. > :09:38.doing is the Sheriff. Sure, but it's a slightly different point from
:09:39. > :09:43.actually considering the law, and on that issue it's interesting to me
:09:44. > :09:48.that you have a picture of you shaking hands with the President,
:09:49. > :09:52.President Obama. And it does seem to me the danger here is a few and your
:09:53. > :09:57.supporters, although for a live like that to Piercy in Arizona, being on
:09:58. > :10:01.a collision course with a president who has made it quite plain that he
:10:02. > :10:06.does not believe Arizona should push ahead. You mentioned Obama and I
:10:07. > :10:10.will respond to that, you see President Bush, I only met with
:10:11. > :10:13.Obama as a courtesy to the Secret Service went the President comes
:10:14. > :10:19.into town with the Sheriff like to meet with him. Of course you would.
:10:20. > :10:22.Yes, he is my president and I would respect the office and maybe we
:10:23. > :10:26.disagree on certain issues but it doesn't at all. What you do disagree
:10:27. > :10:29.don't you because he also talked about this building a wedge, it the
:10:30. > :10:33.Arizona law would drive a wedge between communities. I don't know
:10:34. > :10:37.about that. I've had great support from the Hispanic community. I was
:10:38. > :10:42.their hero at one time and I rest of the military reserve is on a highway
:10:43. > :10:46.for putting guns in nine people on the street. They looked like they
:10:47. > :10:50.were from Mexico. I rest of the military guy, I took a lot of heat
:10:51. > :10:54.and it is you don't go around pointing guns are people because of
:10:55. > :10:59.what they look like. Now I am the enemy. You are now, and I want to
:11:00. > :11:02.put this quote to you because it is powerful and I wonder how you react,
:11:03. > :11:05.Thomas Saines was the president of the Mexican-American legal defence
:11:06. > :11:11.fund says" the way that you are treating the immigration issue now
:11:12. > :11:14.is very similar, comparable, to what southern sheriffs were doing in the
:11:15. > :11:21.United States in the early 1960s, refusing to bow to Federal antics"
:11:22. > :11:28.those about desegregation. You see any comparison? You know, if I'm so
:11:29. > :11:35.bad, as Sheriff, being in office, 17 years, what with the US government
:11:36. > :11:39.Homeland Security train 100 of my deputies and gives authorities to
:11:40. > :11:43.enforce illegal immigration laws? Why did they do that? 100 deputies
:11:44. > :11:48.have been trained, five weeks of training, why would they do that if
:11:49. > :11:54.this Sheriff is so bad? Another set of figures, it's interesting to
:11:55. > :11:57.tease out what you make of them. An analysis by American civil rights
:11:58. > :12:02.lawyers locally said 70% of those that were arrested in one of the
:12:03. > :12:05.phased switch that you conducted in the area had Spanish surnames and
:12:06. > :12:12.they point out that Maricopa county generally has 31% Latino population,
:12:13. > :12:15.this was their way of saying whatever the sheriffs as there is
:12:16. > :12:21.racial profiling going on right now in Maricopa County. How did he know
:12:22. > :12:27.how many people we stop? How do they know how many people we arrested? We
:12:28. > :12:31.didn't take 70%. Sometimes we do the crime suppression operation and the
:12:32. > :12:37.criminals or the law, we arrest, they happen to be Hispanic. Just
:12:38. > :12:40.happen to be? Ayr, we don't racial profile, we stop everyone.
:12:41. > :12:46.Everybody. It doesn't matter who they are. When we stop the person
:12:47. > :12:50.and it happens to be Hispanic, and also here illegally, we are not
:12:51. > :12:53.going to overlook that. Would it worry you if the perception was
:12:54. > :12:58.amongst Hispanic people in your community, that it actually wasn't
:12:59. > :13:01.the case? You know, I think I have a lot of support from the Hispanic
:13:02. > :13:08.community, legal people here, not the illegal,. It's not just Hispanic
:13:09. > :13:12.groups, human rights groups who aren't happy, they are even police
:13:13. > :13:15.chiefs who I imagine you regard as colleagues of yours who say that
:13:16. > :13:19.your methods simply are wrong. I'm thinking of the chief of police of
:13:20. > :13:24.miso, George Gascoigne, he says effective policing needs the
:13:25. > :13:29.cooperation of minority communities and he says we, unlike Sheriff Joe,
:13:30. > :13:36.focus on people who are committing predatory crimes. Really? Is he in
:13:37. > :13:42.San Francisco now? Do you know that? He was in miso when he said that. I
:13:43. > :13:46.will tell you that, he is going around locking people, hanging
:13:47. > :13:51.around street corners, around buses, poor people? He says he only goes
:13:52. > :13:54.after violent criminals. He says there was a fundamental issue and
:13:55. > :13:58.you have to establish trust between communities in America and you have
:13:59. > :14:04.failed to do that. Really? I have a lot of trust with the community, big
:14:05. > :14:10.time. I have a hotline. A hotline. 8000 calls I got in a hotline to
:14:11. > :14:14.report illegal immigrants violation. We are using for the information
:14:15. > :14:19.comes from? Illegal aliens. That's how we get our information. Where do
:14:20. > :14:24.you think you get information on dope peddlers? Drug trafficking? The
:14:25. > :14:27.use of drugs? I get a lot of information, this is a copout by
:14:28. > :14:32.police chiefs they are worried that the police will be missed trust with
:14:33. > :14:36.the Hispanic community, it went given any information, it takes a
:14:37. > :14:43.lot of resources, yet they can go after hawkers and task force with no
:14:44. > :14:47.seatbelt and win 53% of the people in my jails are booked by all police
:14:48. > :14:53.agencies are small crimes, so don't tell me that the only concentrate on
:14:54. > :14:57.big-time crimes and files, the copout is this- they have to report
:14:58. > :15:01.to politicians, they have to report to city councils, city managers, and
:15:02. > :15:05.they do like to enforce the illegal immigration laws because some people
:15:06. > :15:09.want amnesty in this area in this country.
:15:10. > :15:16.I think, if I may, one of the reasons that Gascon was not happy
:15:17. > :15:24.with you is that you took one of your well-known posses into his
:15:25. > :15:28.neighbourhood. He described it as a deeply dangerous situation. IMC
:15:29. > :15:33.elected sheriff, I can go anywhere I want in this whole county. He was
:15:34. > :15:39.not doing the job on illegal immigration, so I did. And I have
:15:40. > :15:42.the authority as the elected chief law enforcement officer to do that.
:15:43. > :15:47.Maybe he should have been doing the job instead of going out with all
:15:48. > :15:54.these activists, raising money against me. As a highly respected
:15:55. > :16:05.lawman, you have been decorated across the United off states... The
:16:06. > :16:12.world. Why are you facing an investigation from the bureau? When
:16:13. > :16:16.you are high profile, you do get people looking into you. Is quite
:16:17. > :16:26.extraordinary in your case, you seem to have upset so many people. A
:16:27. > :16:37.whole host of local of issue officials accuse you of abusing your
:16:38. > :16:40.power to investigate them. Not just what we talked about, you're
:16:41. > :16:46.policing methods with minority groups, but also a systematic abuse
:16:47. > :16:52.of your powers locally. That is not true. We co-operate with the grand
:16:53. > :16:57.jury. I have been the first Federal official for 30 years, I know how
:16:58. > :17:02.the government operates. They can have the investigations, I am not
:17:03. > :17:05.concerned about it. Shouldn't you be concerned about it? Shouldn't the
:17:06. > :17:10.people of the city be concerned about it? I will mention again my
:17:11. > :17:15.polls, every day I am in the headlines. It doesn't bother the
:17:16. > :17:22.people, they've read through all this garbage. It is a question of
:17:23. > :17:28.what the mindset says about your attitude to law enforcement. I can
:17:29. > :17:34.see the board which is about the conditions in your city, going into
:17:35. > :17:41.the pink underwear that you force your prisoners to wear. Many of them
:17:42. > :17:47.are in temperatures higher than 100 Fahrenheit. The question is, is it
:17:48. > :17:54.your intent to dehumanise, humiliate the prisoners you are responsible
:17:55. > :18:01.for? I am an old-fashioned guy, a senior citizen. When I grew up, when
:18:02. > :18:07.he did something wrong, you took away a privilege. We even used the
:18:08. > :18:20.word punishment. Sorry to interrupt, I know it is rude. Many people in
:18:21. > :18:29.your tent city are awaiting trial. Everyone in that city are awaiting
:18:30. > :18:35.trial. We celebrated our anniversary. Our men and women
:18:36. > :18:42.fought for our country in Iraq, in Afghanistan. Any -- everybody in
:18:43. > :18:47.those tents have been convicted. These conditions, including the pink
:18:48. > :18:54.underwear, you have been proud to say that you only feed your
:18:55. > :19:00.prisoners to meals a day, it is a id costing more to feed your dog is
:19:01. > :19:06.Banna does your prisoners. We have dogs in the jail, yes. Some of the
:19:07. > :19:13.prisoners under these conditions have yet to be convicted. These
:19:14. > :19:17.conditions apply whether they are in the tents or not. I am just asking
:19:18. > :19:23.you whether you think that is acceptable. Of course it is. They
:19:24. > :19:27.get their 2500 calories. It is just not pepperoni pizza or steak where
:19:28. > :19:40.they have television, smoking, coffee. I took all that away, took
:19:41. > :19:48.it away. I was sued when I took away the coffee, but I won that case. So
:19:49. > :19:51.where is the problem? The Hispanic community is the fastest-growing in
:19:52. > :19:57.the United States. They are the biggest minority community, their
:19:58. > :20:02.numbers are on the rise with a high birth rate, higher than pretty much
:20:03. > :20:07.any other minority community in this country. If the Republican Party is
:20:08. > :20:11.to form a coalition in future, they need Hispanic and Latina votes. Are
:20:12. > :20:18.you helping the party reach out to that community? I don't do that, I
:20:19. > :20:24.just lock them up. It has nothing to do with politics. I think the
:20:25. > :20:31.Republican Party would like to be assured we lock up anybody, Italian
:20:32. > :20:35.or whatever. It doesn't bother me if anybody says I am locking up
:20:36. > :20:41.Hispanics, I am locking everybody up. You are very proud of your
:20:42. > :20:45.roots, your family is Italian. They were immigrants themselves to the
:20:46. > :20:52.United States. I know you will tell me they were illegal immigrants,
:20:53. > :20:57.it's a fair point. In the end, your history is part of the rich American
:20:58. > :21:01.immigrant experience. On a personal level, does it strike you as strange
:21:02. > :21:06.that you have pitched up a job that is so much of what you do seems to
:21:07. > :21:11.be a about stopping immigrants making a life in America? No, this
:21:12. > :21:16.has been going on for three years when the laws were passed. Before
:21:17. > :21:24.this job, I had other priorities. It is my job. To enforce the laws. I
:21:25. > :21:31.deal with the President and Attorney General. I got along very well
:21:32. > :21:37.working with the Mexican government. You would not get along with the
:21:38. > :21:43.current Mexican President. Stick his nose out of our business. I know the
:21:44. > :21:47.secrets of Mexico, I lived in Mexico for four years. He ought to worry
:21:48. > :21:52.about his own problems, not the United States. Look at his
:21:53. > :21:57.immigration laws, his presence, his corruption. He ought to be looking
:21:58. > :22:01.at himself, not the United States. Coming back to something we
:22:02. > :22:06.discussed earlier, if there has to be a collusion between the Federal
:22:07. > :22:11.government and forces here in Arizona who want to pursue a
:22:12. > :22:16.different agenda on immigration policy, are you ready for that? I am
:22:17. > :22:21.ready for anything. You want to wipe the laws of the book? That is OK
:22:22. > :22:25.with me. If the laws are there, I am going to enforce it. If not, I
:22:26. > :22:30.won't. If the Feds intervened to tell you you can't do what you have
:22:31. > :22:39.been doing? If that could be proven, and the law says... Justifies what
:22:40. > :22:44.they say, of course I won't do it. I have survived 17 years, I hate the
:22:45. > :22:51.word survived, but I have been getting shots for 70 years. People
:22:52. > :22:55.wonder why you do it, you don't get much money, you don't want to be the
:22:56. > :23:00.governor. When I leave, you'll forget my name. Why do I do this?
:23:01. > :23:05.What objective? Because I'm getting little publicity? I don't need that.
:23:06. > :23:14.What is my reason? I ask myself that. You're not going to asked me.
:23:15. > :23:18.I was going to! When I go on the streets and everybody comes up to
:23:19. > :23:23.me, almost everybody, and they said, thank you, sheriff, thank you for
:23:24. > :23:28.what you're doing, that motivation, as long as they keep saying thank
:23:29. > :23:33.you, thank you, I'll keep going. Time for me to say thank you. Thank
:23:34. > :23:45.you for being on HARDtalk, Sheriff Joe Arpaio.