:00:01. > :00:06.The headlines: The Turkish Prime Minister has won a third term in
:00:06. > :00:13.power and has promised to work with his rivals on a new constitution.
:00:13. > :00:18.In his victory speech he told support as he wanted everyone to be
:00:18. > :00:25.included. The Syrian army has taken control
:00:25. > :00:29.of the town Jisr al-Shughour nearly one week after 120 members of the
:00:29. > :00:36.security forces are said to have been killed there. Syrian
:00:36. > :00:40.television says a mass grave has been discovered.
:00:40. > :00:46.Ash particles drifting across the Pacific Ocean from a volcanic
:00:46. > :00:49.eruption in Chile are causing disruption to airlines in New
:00:49. > :00:57.Zealand and Eastern Australia. Hundreds of flats had been
:00:57. > :01:07.cancelled. -- flights.
:01:07. > :01:12.
:01:12. > :01:15."Iran knew we were just tourists." That is Sarah Shourd's claim. She
:01:15. > :01:20.was arrested when she was hiking with two other Americans on Iraq's
:01:20. > :01:23.border with Iran. After many months in Tehran's notorious Evin prison,
:01:23. > :01:28.she was released. But her fiance and friend are still there nearly
:01:28. > :01:32.two years on. They have had barely any contact with the outside world
:01:32. > :01:42.and while they were promised a trial, it has still not happened.
:01:42. > :01:53.
:01:53. > :01:59.What will it take to secure their Sarah Shourd, welcome to HARDtalk.
:01:59. > :02:04.Thank you. What were you doing hiking on what is one of the
:02:04. > :02:12.world's most volatile borders? was living in Damascus with my now
:02:12. > :02:14.fiance. We had been living there for more than one year. He had been
:02:15. > :02:19.working in the region as an investigative journalist for nearly
:02:19. > :02:23.one decade. We moved to Damascus and the two of us are peace
:02:23. > :02:26.activists and it was an extension of our work to actually come and
:02:26. > :02:33.immerse ourselves in a diverse community in the Middle East and
:02:33. > :02:41.learn Arabic. So northern Iraqi Kurdistan is a semi autonomous area.
:02:41. > :02:46.It is a no-fly zone. It was made that way in the 80s to protect them
:02:46. > :02:50.from Saddam Hussein. It is a flourishing area for tourists and
:02:50. > :02:55.nobody has been kidnapped there in decades. But you went right to the
:02:55. > :02:59.border. It is not a very well- marked border but, you make it
:02:59. > :03:07.clear, you are not naive and you know about the world and the area.
:03:07. > :03:11.Why go there? We were very unfortunate. We were misled as to
:03:11. > :03:16.how close the border is. We asked our hotel manager, our taxi driver,
:03:16. > :03:20.a restaurant owner, they all said it was the best place to hike. It
:03:20. > :03:23.is a beautiful area with waterfalls and we arrived there by taxi and
:03:23. > :03:30.there were hundreds of other people, whole families, camping there
:03:30. > :03:35.overnight. We stayed overnight and asked about a good trail. They said
:03:35. > :03:39.there was no problem with the trail so we hiked for several hours. The
:03:39. > :03:43.only mistake we made is that perhaps we hiked too far and were a
:03:44. > :03:48.little over-zealous. We were enjoying ourselves so much that we
:03:48. > :03:52.lost track of time and we thought the border was miles away. Do you
:03:52. > :03:56.accept that it looks suspicious? accept that there is animosity
:03:56. > :04:02.between Iran and the US that is real and it is 30 years of
:04:02. > :04:05.animosity and suspicion on both sides of government. But it was
:04:05. > :04:10.clear immediately when the soldiers saw us that there was no intention
:04:10. > :04:15.from us to go to Iran. We had nothing on us, no equipment, I was
:04:15. > :04:18.wearing shorts and no headscarf. The headscarf is mandatory in Iran.
:04:18. > :04:21.The soldiers immediately forced us into their Jeep, drove us to the
:04:21. > :04:30.nearest town and bought me a headscarf. They were immediately
:04:30. > :04:36.suspicious of you? No. It was clear to them that that we came from a
:04:36. > :04:39.tourist spot and had gone too far away and got lost. I have no idea
:04:40. > :04:43.where the border is. Did they make it clear that they thought you were
:04:43. > :04:51.tourists or they knew you were tourists? Yes, that was a strong
:04:51. > :04:55.impression I got. They saw how confused we were. They saw we did
:04:55. > :05:02.not speak the language and we had nothing on us except some food and
:05:02. > :05:08.a few books. They said we had to come for an hour and talk to their
:05:08. > :05:11.boss and then they would take us back to Iraq. They took us to Iran,
:05:11. > :05:15.bought the new clothes, drove us around for days and handed us off
:05:15. > :05:18.to different groups of people. It was obvious we were tourists from
:05:18. > :05:24.the first second and absolutely no threat. I do not understand why,
:05:24. > :05:30.when that became blatantly evident, we were not immediately taken back.
:05:31. > :05:34.But at the time, another woman was only just released from Evin prison.
:05:34. > :05:40.Another American, picked up by the Iranians, resulting in a high-
:05:40. > :05:45.profile campaign. And there were another two American journalists
:05:45. > :05:49.being held in North Korea. Americans had been picked up on
:05:49. > :05:54.difficult borders in difficult places. So when they picked you up,
:05:54. > :06:04.what did you think? Of course I was frightened. It got progressively
:06:04. > :06:07.worse. I got more terrified as one day turned into two days. I was
:06:07. > :06:16.convinced from the get go that we had done nothing wrong and
:06:16. > :06:21.everything would be OK. They drove us about for days and kept telling
:06:21. > :06:24.us we were going home. At one point, they forced us into the car and
:06:25. > :06:28.drove us into the darkness. They drove us out into nothingness for
:06:28. > :06:32.more than one hour and we were terrified. They were cocking their
:06:32. > :06:39.guns and we were afraid for our lives. We had no idea. Nothing can
:06:39. > :06:43.prepare you for this kind of situation. And then the next day,
:06:43. > :06:47.they took us to a small prison in the middle of nowhere and drove us
:06:47. > :06:51.to Tehran. Up until the last minute, they said we were going to the
:06:51. > :06:55.airport and going home. Do not worry. So it was not until...
:06:55. > :07:01.they treating you badly? No. In the beginning they were not physically
:07:01. > :07:05.rough. But we were completely disorientated and had no idea where
:07:05. > :07:11.we were. Do you think they always intended to take you to Evin
:07:11. > :07:19.prison? There is no transparency. I have no way of knowing what the
:07:19. > :07:24.decision-making process was. All I know is it was clear that they knew
:07:24. > :07:27.we were just tourists and they picked us up near a tourist site.
:07:27. > :07:32.Whatever decision led to me being thrown into prison and my fiance
:07:32. > :07:37.and I being torn apart...and now it is two years later. The situation
:07:37. > :07:43.is persisting. Tell us about that moment when you get to the prison
:07:43. > :07:53.and you realise that you're not going home. You are put in a cell
:07:53. > :07:54.
:07:54. > :07:57.and separated from the men and put into a cell. Yes. Shane and Josh
:07:57. > :08:00.and I agreed that if they tore us apart, we were terrified about
:08:00. > :08:03.being separated, we would immediately stop eating and go on
:08:03. > :08:13.hunger strike. We clung to each other, screaming, tears streaming
:08:13. > :08:14.
:08:14. > :08:17.down our faces. They physically tore us apart, put us into
:08:17. > :08:20.different cells and we stopped eating for five days until they
:08:21. > :08:26.finally let us see each other for maybe two minutes. At that point,
:08:26. > :08:30.Shane and Josh, we were reassuring each other. We said it was not
:08:30. > :08:34.possible, they could not keep us, and we were sure they would let us
:08:34. > :08:38.go any day. We had faith it would be resolved immediately. They were
:08:38. > :08:44.put into a cell together and you were on your own. What was that
:08:44. > :08:49.like? It is indescribable. The isolation is extreme. You go
:08:49. > :08:53.through a complete withdrawal the first few months. Everything you
:08:53. > :08:59.love, everything you care about, is torn away from you and you are just
:08:59. > :09:07.flailing. It is excruciatingly painful emotionally. I would just
:09:07. > :09:10.cry and beat at the walls. There were times when I had blood
:09:10. > :09:17.streaming down my hands from beating at the walls because I
:09:17. > :09:27.panicked and I feared the worst. Things got... There were so many
:09:27. > :09:30.
:09:30. > :09:33.different phases. This was a long period, as you know. When the
:09:33. > :09:35.investigation ended, there were two months when we had to write
:09:35. > :09:40.everything about ourselves, they scoured through our e-mail accounts
:09:40. > :09:50.scoured through our e-mail accounts scoured through our e-mail accounts
:09:50. > :09:53.
:09:53. > :09:56.My interrogator came to my interrogation room after two months
:09:56. > :10:01.and said "'I am sorry but the investigation is being shut down".
:10:01. > :10:05.I asked why, was I going to court or going home? And he said he did
:10:05. > :10:08.not know as my case had become political. He did not know what
:10:08. > :10:11.would happen to me. In that two months, did you get any
:10:11. > :10:21.information? No. No phone calls. My first phone call was five months
:10:21. > :10:23.
:10:23. > :10:26.into detention. Not even being able to tell my mother I am alive. Shane
:10:26. > :10:30.and Josh have had three phone calls in 22 months. The other prisoners
:10:30. > :10:34.get a phone call every week so their isolation is extreme. The
:10:34. > :10:38.last time we did get a phone call, about three weeks ago, I missed it.
:10:38. > :10:42.But the mothers got a phone call. This is from the other two who are
:10:43. > :10:46.still there? Yes. But to get a sense of what it was like for you,
:10:46. > :10:50.did you know the outside world knew you were in there? There were two
:10:50. > :10:54.Swiss diplomats who came to see you. Yes, after two months. That is what
:10:54. > :11:00.kept me alive, having faith that the world would not forget us. And
:11:00. > :11:05.that people would come to our aid. And even though it is only an idea,
:11:05. > :11:10.it keeps you going and stops you from slipping away. You were
:11:10. > :11:14.eventually allowed more regular contact with Shane and Josh? Twice
:11:14. > :11:18.a day for half an hour? When the isolation was starting to take too
:11:18. > :11:23.heavy a toll and they could see I was losing my mind, they started to
:11:23. > :11:26.let... They put Shane and Josh in the same cell, they were in
:11:26. > :11:30.complete isolation for the first three months, they put them
:11:30. > :11:37.together and started to let us see each other in an open air room
:11:37. > :11:47.which is a larger cell with bars over the roof. All we could do was
:11:47. > :11:47.
:11:47. > :11:51.just hold each other and cry for the first several weeks. But we
:11:51. > :11:55.kept each other going and gave each other the strength to go on. Prison
:11:56. > :11:59.is very scary and you do not know what is going to happen. Did you
:11:59. > :12:05.have a window? Yes, a small window. The first several months I was
:12:05. > :12:09.terrified of violence. I would sleep with a metal plate against
:12:09. > :12:12.the door. It was the only way I could sleep because I was afraid
:12:13. > :12:20.someone would come in. You are completely subject to the prison
:12:20. > :12:24.guards. How did the women guards treat you? Some were very
:12:24. > :12:30.sympathetic because it was clear to them that I was a good person. That
:12:30. > :12:33.I loved the Middle East. I would tell them about the fact that I
:12:33. > :12:39.support Palestinian rights and that made them sympathetic to me. And I
:12:39. > :12:44.lived in Damascus and was teaching refugees. We are peace activists,
:12:44. > :12:48.the kind of people you would think Iran would applaud and not punish.
:12:48. > :12:54.But others were very cruel and they hated me and would not speak to me,
:12:54. > :13:03.they treated me like I was not human. There is one incident that
:13:03. > :13:13.is hard to talk about. Shane and Josh were beaten by one of the
:13:13. > :13:15.
:13:15. > :13:19.guards. They were coming back from the open air room where we spent
:13:19. > :13:22.time together and nearly every day, Josh and Shane would get extra food
:13:22. > :13:32.if there was any left over after the prisoners were served. This was
:13:32. > :13:35.
:13:35. > :13:39.a daily occurrence. Then one of the guards just went crazy. He was
:13:39. > :13:43.filled with rage and he pushed Josh away from us and tore us apart and
:13:43. > :13:49.pushed Josh down the stairs and we had no idea where they were taking
:13:49. > :13:52.him. And so Shane and I were screaming and yelling, stop! And
:13:52. > :13:57.they pushed us back to our cells and I spent the next hour pounding
:13:57. > :14:05.my door and screaming his name. Finally, I heard his voice and he
:14:05. > :14:09.was being taken back to his cell and he said that he was OK. So that
:14:09. > :14:13.was 24 hours before I heard what happened and what happened was
:14:13. > :14:17.Shane was forced back to his cell and he was so scared that he kept
:14:17. > :14:22.banging on his cell the way I did. The same guard came back to his
:14:22. > :14:26.cell and told him to be quiet. He kept asking where Josh was. The
:14:26. > :14:30.guard just kept slamming Shane against the wall and he slammed him
:14:30. > :14:36.against the wall again and again, 10 or 15 times, until the back of
:14:36. > :14:41.his head was bloody. I saw them the next day and heard what happened.
:14:41. > :14:45.You never know when something like that will happen. We do not know if
:14:45. > :14:51.they are safe, we hardly hear from them. This last phone call we got
:14:51. > :14:55.about three weeks ago, it said... I was not able to talk to them but
:14:55. > :14:59.they said they had been on hunger strike for 17 days. I don't even
:14:59. > :15:07.know how that is possible. So we are terrified and we do not
:15:07. > :15:11.understand. The Iranian authorities have made many positive statements.
:15:12. > :15:21.After I was released I met with the President and he said he knew about
:15:22. > :15:32.
:15:32. > :15:38.The chief of Human Rights says I was incapable of espionage, which
:15:38. > :15:43.is true. Why haven't you told that story about Shane being beaten up
:15:43. > :15:47.before? I did not imagine in a million years that they would still
:15:47. > :15:52.be there eight months after I was released. Did you think that by not
:15:52. > :15:55.saying it, that would hasten their release? The last thing we want is
:15:55. > :15:59.to be part of animosity between the US government and the Iranian
:15:59. > :16:02.government. We have nothing to do with government. All three of us
:16:02. > :16:06.are peace activists. We want to help people. We want to understand
:16:06. > :16:10.the world better. That is why we went to the Middle East. We fell in
:16:10. > :16:15.love with the region. Our story should not be mixed up in politics.
:16:15. > :16:23.It is about two innocent people in prison. But it is so mixed up in
:16:23. > :16:28.politics. You have been critical of the American government which you
:16:28. > :16:36.think should have done more. Yes, I do. Nobody has done enough. Shane
:16:36. > :16:40.and Josh are still there. What got you out? The judge told me I was
:16:40. > :16:43.released because I was a woman and because I was in solitary
:16:43. > :16:51.confinement which is a harsher sentence. There were fears over
:16:51. > :16:56.your health. I had a clean bill of health before I was released. They
:16:56. > :17:01.took me to a specialist and there was nothing wrong with me. It had
:17:01. > :17:04.nothing to do with health. It was because I was a woman. Their chief
:17:04. > :17:14.of Human Rights said they were able to convince the judiciary that I
:17:14. > :17:16.
:17:16. > :17:19.was incapable of espionage. There was bail posted. $500,000 bail.
:17:19. > :17:27.Sultan of Oman and his envoy facilitated my release and they're
:17:27. > :17:30.still working to advocate for Shane and Josh's release. Do you give
:17:30. > :17:35.them more credit than you give your own government? I am extremely
:17:35. > :17:45.grateful to them. I will forever have the country of Oman in my
:17:45. > :17:48.
:17:48. > :17:53.heart. It was incredible being there. There is no transparency in
:17:53. > :17:58.the situation. I do not know why they are holding Shane and Josh. I
:17:58. > :18:02.have no idea why I was released. I have no idea why they have not been
:18:02. > :18:12.released. Or at least why they have not been allowed to meet with their
:18:12. > :18:13.
:18:13. > :18:16.lawyer. He has been defending them tirelessly within the parameters of
:18:16. > :18:19.Iranian law but has made no progress. The last session was
:18:19. > :18:23.cancelled. The reason given by the judiciary was because Shane and
:18:23. > :18:29.Josh were not brought to court. How is this any kind of reason not to
:18:29. > :18:33.give anybody a fair trial after 22 months in prison? I wonder how
:18:33. > :18:38.often you think that they will be released. Or do you think this will
:18:38. > :18:47.go on and on? I do have faith they will be released. I do not know
:18:47. > :18:55.when. All of us live in constant anxiety and fear. Shane and Josh
:18:55. > :18:59.have done nothing wrong. I have to believe that their good records,
:18:59. > :19:03.their good work in the world will make a difference. I do not know
:19:03. > :19:06.why it is taking so long. All of the people who have stood up for
:19:06. > :19:11.them, like Noam Chomsky, Muhammad Ali, these people stand up for
:19:11. > :19:21.Shane and Josh because they believe in who they are. Their innocence is
:19:21. > :19:22.
:19:22. > :19:30.clear. The President of Iran has suggested on a couple of occasions
:19:30. > :19:33.that America could release Iranians. They are raising the idea of a
:19:33. > :19:39.possible prison swap. Is that something you have tried to pursue
:19:39. > :19:49.with the American government? When I met with the President of
:19:49. > :19:50.
:19:50. > :19:56.Iran, he did not mention that. He said that he hoped I would be
:19:56. > :20:01.married soon and have many children. I saw him face to face and that is
:20:01. > :20:07.what he said. Did you think he would then go back and arrange the
:20:07. > :20:10.release? Yes, I did. I would like to believe... He has promised
:20:10. > :20:17.several times to pass on the recommendation for expediency for
:20:17. > :20:25.Shane and Josh. I do not know why we have not seen that. You got
:20:25. > :20:35.engaged in prison? Yes. It was incredible. Shane and I have been
:20:35. > :20:40.dating for many years. It has been 5.5 years. We love each other very
:20:40. > :20:45.much. Josh is now my best friend for life. He is like a brother to
:20:45. > :20:55.me. Shane surprised me, it came out of the blue and it helped to keep
:20:55. > :20:59.
:20:59. > :21:09.us going. He used cloth from his shirt and a towel to make a ring.
:21:09. > :21:11.
:21:11. > :21:14.He asked me to spend the rest of my life with him. It was beautiful.
:21:14. > :21:22.You can imagine the power of the television images there are in you
:21:22. > :21:26.going back to get your fiancee out of prison. Do you not think it
:21:26. > :21:34.would help secure his release if you were there? It is a very
:21:34. > :21:39.difficult decision. It is the most difficult decision I have ever made.
:21:39. > :21:45.But in the end I have to go with my psychologist who says that my post
:21:45. > :21:49.traumatic stress disorder... We're all suffering from this but the
:21:49. > :21:57.toll it has taken on me and my mental health makes us so much more
:21:57. > :22:01.afraid for Shane and Josh. How is it still affecting you? Extreme
:22:01. > :22:05.anxiety. Obsession with the campaign. There is nothing else
:22:05. > :22:09.that gives my life any meaning or direction. The only thing that
:22:09. > :22:18.keeps me going is to try to advocate for Shane and Josh. I have
:22:18. > :22:23.insomnia. I get very triggered with panic attacks of things that remind
:22:23. > :22:26.me of prison. It was a very difficult decision. A part of me
:22:26. > :22:30.would like to stand with them and defend our innocence. We have been
:22:30. > :22:36.waiting for the chance to go to court now for 17 months. That was
:22:36. > :22:42.the first time we were told we would go to court. But I know that
:22:42. > :22:46.they would not want me to risk my own mental health for that.
:22:46. > :22:51.there a part of you that feels guilty for being out when they are
:22:51. > :22:55.still in? Not guilty. The last thing that Shane and Josh said to
:22:55. > :23:00.me when I was able to say goodbye to them is that they had total
:23:00. > :23:10.confidence in me to advocate for them. They had joy in their faces.
:23:10. > :23:11.
:23:11. > :23:17.I know they want me to be out here telling the truth. I am grateful. I
:23:17. > :23:21.am grateful to be free and alive. What about Iran? What did you think
:23:21. > :23:25.about Iran before all this happened? To be honest, I was not
:23:25. > :23:32.at all focused on Iran. I was learning about Syria, learning
:23:32. > :23:36.Arabic. I was focused on the Arab world. But I am interested in Iran.
:23:36. > :23:40.It is a fascinating country with an incredible history. I do not
:23:40. > :23:47.understand how something like this could have happened. How do you
:23:47. > :23:50.feel about it now? It is very hard to say. One of the things that
:23:50. > :23:54.really kept us going in prison, through everything we went through,
:23:54. > :23:57.the endless days, was the feeling, the confidence that we could walk
:23:57. > :24:07.out unbroken, with our values, the essential parts of ourselves intact
:24:07. > :24:09.
:24:09. > :24:15.and unchanged. I feel very proud of the fact that I am not bitter or
:24:15. > :24:24.angry. I see this as a huge misunderstanding. It is a tragic
:24:24. > :24:33.one. I see that our treatment was cruel. But I do not blame Iranian
:24:33. > :24:40.people for that in any way. They have been extremely kind to me.
:24:40. > :24:45.the women prisoners inside were a support to you? Yes, they were.
:24:45. > :24:48.Even though I could never see them or talk to them, they would sing to
:24:48. > :24:54.me sometimes in English. They would knock on the wall when I was
:24:54. > :25:00.screaming and crying. They would shout, I love you Sarah. They
:25:00. > :25:10.showed me a lot of humanity. Sarah Shourd, thank you for coming on
:25:10. > :25:26.
:25:26. > :25:32.We got the rain that we needed across England and Wales yesterday.
:25:32. > :25:36.A really contrasting day today. A much brighter and warmer day across
:25:36. > :25:40.England and Wales. Different story further north for today. Let's
:25:40. > :25:44.recap on what we had yesterday. A massive cloud stretching across the
:25:44. > :25:49.country that has been drifting north over the last few hours.
:25:49. > :25:59.Clear skies behind it. A little bit misty and drizzly in one or two
:25:59. > :26:00.
:26:01. > :26:04.places. That rain grinds to a stop in Scotland. With all the cloud
:26:04. > :26:08.around it will be a much milder start to the morning in comparison
:26:08. > :26:11.to the ones just past. Temperatures staying in the double figures for
:26:11. > :26:15.many of us. 12-13 degrees greet us first thing. A mild and cloudy
:26:15. > :26:18.start and a wet and windy day further north. The cloud will break
:26:19. > :26:26.up and we will see sunshine coming through and it will eventually feel
:26:26. > :26:30.quite warm. You will have to wait until the middle of the afternoon a
:26:30. > :26:35.for that. You can see some decent spells of sunshine coming through
:26:35. > :26:40.then. To the east of the Pennines it will be a pleasant afternoon. A
:26:40. > :26:46.high of around 16-18 degrees, perhaps. There will be a little bit
:26:46. > :26:53.of broken cloud from time to time along the south coast. A dry,
:26:53. > :26:56.bright and sunny afternoon in the south-west and for much of Wales. A
:26:56. > :27:00.breeze, perhaps, along the exposed coast, but generally speaking it
:27:00. > :27:02.will be a pleasant afternoon. More cloud and the risk of a shower up
:27:02. > :27:11.into the far north of Northern Ireland. Maximum temperatures
:27:11. > :27:15.around 15 degrees. Into Scotland we will continue to see some pretty
:27:15. > :27:19.wet weather up into the far north by the middle of the afternoon
:27:19. > :27:25.accompanied by some strong wind. It will ease away, but those gust of
:27:25. > :27:35.wind may be up to 60mph. In the Northern Isles in particular as
:27:35. > :27:35.
:27:35. > :27:38.that rain eases away. As we say goodbye to Monday we will see an
:27:38. > :27:45.area of low pressure easing away, high pressure taking over. That is
:27:45. > :27:50.what is in store for Wednesday. Tuesday shapes up to be a lovely
:27:50. > :27:53.day really - dry, bright and sunny with a high of 23 degrees in the