:00:09. > :00:14.Now it is time for HARDtalk. Who are the most ambitious, dedicated
:00:14. > :00:19.star in the London 2012 Olympics.
:00:19. > :00:22.Many more will figure in the Paralympic Games which will follow.
:00:22. > :00:25.Thousands of disabled competitors will be straining every sinew not
:00:25. > :00:30.just to win gold, but also to convince the world their sporting
:00:30. > :00:33.prowess matches that of Usain Bolt and the rest. I talk to Dame Tanni
:00:33. > :00:40.Grey-Thompson, who won 11 paralympic golds on the track, and
:00:40. > :00:50.is now an influential voice in UK sport. Has the time of the disabled
:00:50. > :01:21.
:01:21. > :01:27.When welcome to HARDtalk. Throughout your adult life you
:01:27. > :01:33.worry deeply competitive athlete. Then in 2007 you stopped. Has it
:01:33. > :01:39.left a hole in your life? Not at all. I was very fortunate that my
:01:39. > :01:43.coach was an ex- athlete herself. She was always very influential. In
:01:43. > :01:48.terms of all the athletes she coached she said you need something
:01:48. > :01:52.to fall back on. You need something to do in retirement. I was very
:01:52. > :01:55.fortunate. I got to choose my retirement date. When I had enough,
:01:56. > :02:00.that was it. I had 18 months to think about the crossover and what
:02:00. > :02:06.else I wanted to do. I had already been quite involved in different
:02:06. > :02:09.parts of the sport. I was on the Council of the sports in Wales. It
:02:09. > :02:17.gave me a lot of opportunity to think about what else to do.
:02:17. > :02:20.still say that you live and breathe it sport. Sports administration -
:02:20. > :02:24.and being a key player in UK Athletics - does that give you some
:02:24. > :02:28.of the satisfaction it used to come on the track? There is nothing that
:02:28. > :02:37.will ever be the same again as competing in front of 95,000 people.
:02:37. > :02:40.But I don't want it to be. I get as much enjoyment out of changing
:02:40. > :02:44.rules and making sure that athletes coming through are not fighting for
:02:44. > :02:48.the things I once... I am as ambitious now as I was as an
:02:48. > :02:52.athlete. I would like to talk about some of the fights you have had in
:02:52. > :03:02.your life and sporting career, but now I would like to stick to the
:03:02. > :03:05.present.Heavily involved in London 2012. You say - "the London
:03:05. > :03:08.Olympics greatest legacy is that they will enhance the Paralympic
:03:09. > :03:14.movement more than any other host city has done". What makes you so
:03:14. > :03:19.confident? I think it is the passion we have for sport in this
:03:19. > :03:23.country. We don't lose belief in ourselves that much. Does that
:03:23. > :03:28.apply to the Paralympics as well as... Most people would probably
:03:28. > :03:33.describe the Olympics as the main event. In 1996 the Lottery Act
:03:33. > :03:41.changed because the Olympics were disastrous. We won a single gold
:03:41. > :03:44.medal. We had to change. There was nothing in Paralympic sports. This
:03:44. > :03:50.meant for the first time that Paralympian could access the same
:03:50. > :03:54.funding to train. For us as athlete it put us on a whole new level. If
:03:54. > :03:58.you compare us to around the world, we get better media coverage,
:03:58. > :04:04.better sponsorship and support. It is about spreading those messages
:04:04. > :04:07.to make sure other countries take the steps to come to where we are.
:04:07. > :04:13.Before we get into the detail of what other countries are doing when
:04:13. > :04:15.it comes to disabled sport, London has recently seen terrible riots.
:04:15. > :04:20.There is an international perception that there is a security
:04:20. > :04:24.problem in London on its streets. Will that affect the Olympics? You
:04:24. > :04:28.worried organiser not just for the Paralympics - but a whole thing.
:04:28. > :04:34.don't think the recent events will affect the games. The Sports
:04:34. > :04:38.Minister and everyone involved has always said, in terms of security,
:04:38. > :04:45.the budget is not going to change. We have always taken security
:04:45. > :04:49.really seriously. It has been a dent, though, in confidence? It is
:04:49. > :04:53.a challenge - but the UK is still one of the safest countries in the
:04:53. > :04:57.world. We have to make sure people feel comfortable. Do you think
:04:57. > :05:02.there is a danger that the Paralympics is seen across the
:05:02. > :05:11.world as a post script to what we would call the able-bodied
:05:11. > :05:16.Olympics? I picked up one statistic the other day - on the last
:05:16. > :05:20.Olympics they had over 2000 staff covering the main thing, but five
:05:20. > :05:24.people at the Paralympics. That says something, doesn't it? About
:05:24. > :05:33.international interest in the sport they were involved in. Absolutely.
:05:33. > :05:37.That is where we have an awful lot of work to do. It is bizarre, the
:05:37. > :05:40.country - the USA, that has the strongest disabled policies in the
:05:40. > :05:43.world, they have good sponsorship for athletes, they are not
:05:43. > :05:47.interested in showing the Paralympics. Until the US changes,
:05:47. > :05:52.it will be hard to convince the rest of the world. I still get
:05:52. > :05:59.people saying things like the real Olympics, the main Olympics...
:05:59. > :06:06.can see that might but you. One of your great rivals over the last
:06:06. > :06:14.years, a Canadian track athlete in the Paralympics, she has said that
:06:14. > :06:18.she believes Equality will be achieved when she is able to
:06:18. > :06:22.compete in an integrated Olympics. When her 100 metre sprint in her
:06:22. > :06:26.wheelchair is in the Olympic Stadium with all the other events
:06:26. > :06:29.that go on in the main Olympics. Is that what you want to see? It would
:06:29. > :06:35.be amazing if we could run an integrated games, but the reality
:06:35. > :06:39.is different. Why can't you? size - you have 10,000 at the
:06:39. > :06:48.Olympics, 5,500 at the Olympics - there is not a city that could hold
:06:48. > :06:53.a games of that size. The aesthetically pleasing events,
:06:53. > :07:03.wheelchair racing, maybe tennis or swimming, would move over to the
:07:03. > :07:07.Olympics, the others would get dumped.... I suppose that if I had
:07:07. > :07:10.a chance to compete at the Olympics, there would have grabbed it. But I
:07:10. > :07:15.feel a responsibility for the other athletes who would have been dumped
:07:15. > :07:25.off the face of the Earth. I'm very interested in that phrase used "as
:07:25. > :07:28.
:07:28. > :07:32.they tickly pleasing" is that how easy it? -- alphabetically pleasing.
:07:32. > :07:36.I think the public is slightly more comfortable sports we don't see the
:07:36. > :07:42.impairment in some way. Wheelchair racing looks like cycling - the
:07:42. > :07:45.wheelchair makes it sexier. We have a job to do. The same as in women's
:07:45. > :07:51.sport. We have the same job to do - making people watched disabled
:07:51. > :07:54.sport. I'm going to come back to sport at the moment. Now I want to
:07:54. > :07:58.take you back your child would. I would like to find out what made
:07:58. > :08:01.you different. You had spina bifida, there are all sorts of people
:08:01. > :08:06.across this country and the world were brought up with a real
:08:06. > :08:13.physical problem, difficulties they have to overcome. What made you so
:08:13. > :08:22.determined to become an elite athlete? Given the problems he
:08:22. > :08:25.faced? I did not face any problems as a child. I couldn't walk until I
:08:25. > :08:29.was seven years old and then I was paralysed. They gave me some
:08:29. > :08:34.advantages in that I was in the mainstream. My parents worked very
:08:34. > :08:37.hard to get me into a mainstream high school. They threatened to sue
:08:37. > :08:41.the council of Wales. If it hadn't been for that my life would have
:08:41. > :08:50.been very different. I don't think I am different because I am in a
:08:50. > :08:53.chair. My stubbornness is a family trait. Stroppy is your description
:08:53. > :08:56.of yourself. (LAUGHTER).
:08:56. > :09:00.I wonder if sport is an outlet in which that bloody-mindedness can
:09:00. > :09:04.have an outlet. You have said you will not be patronised, you will
:09:04. > :09:09.not be condescended to. You're going to find a way to express your
:09:09. > :09:12.talent and determination and sport was it. I am lucky I found sport.
:09:13. > :09:16.If it hadn't been sport it would have been something else. I quite
:09:16. > :09:22.enjoyed school and a number of other things I did. It took me a
:09:22. > :09:25.long time to find athletics as a sport I was good at. By chance I
:09:25. > :09:32.dropped into athletics. I think you're right - it gave me a chance
:09:32. > :09:36.to show people - I can do this. It is an interesting question. How
:09:36. > :09:40.much of my life is affected by my being in a wheelchair? I wanted to
:09:40. > :09:45.prove I could do something because I am in a wheelchair - or was it...
:09:45. > :09:50.I think a lot of it was there any way. One thing that has irritated
:09:50. > :09:54.you in the past - as you accrued all these gold medals and
:09:54. > :09:59.achievements and honours, people have tended to talk of you as
:09:59. > :10:08.somebody who is truly brave and courageous. You have bought against
:10:08. > :10:12.that. Why? Why do those words but you so much? Because you wouldn't
:10:12. > :10:17.call Steve Redgrave's and brave. For 20 years I did something I
:10:17. > :10:20.loved. By train full-time, I travelled the world. That is not
:10:20. > :10:24.being brave. I think there are a lot of disabled people who are
:10:24. > :10:28.brave because there is a lot of discrimination out there. But as an
:10:28. > :10:33.Attlee - it is a great life. But up to a point - Steve Redgrave did not
:10:33. > :10:36.have to battle the things you did. Even resources. Early in your
:10:37. > :10:43.career, when you were going to races you had no resources
:10:43. > :10:48.whatsoever. You were representing Wales and you had to share a best
:10:48. > :10:52.with another competitor. You only had one vest between you. These are
:10:52. > :10:56.things that many athletes ever come up against. Sometimes I found it
:10:56. > :11:05.quite amusing. I have quite a dark sense of humour and I like the
:11:05. > :11:11.challenge. That side of the sport stopped being a challenge - when
:11:11. > :11:15.Even at the end when you were highly honoured and regarded as one
:11:15. > :11:18.of the UK's best athletes, was it still a struggle to get resources?
:11:18. > :11:22.To get the sport treated in the wake you thought it should be?
:11:22. > :11:28.changed during my career. It was miles better by the time I finished,
:11:28. > :11:34.but I think there is a long time to go for disabled athletes. When you
:11:34. > :11:38.came in the top three in the year 2000, you were third - they wanted
:11:38. > :11:41.to bring you up on the stage and they had forgotten to create
:11:41. > :11:46.wheelchair access so you couldn't take the prize. Were you furious
:11:46. > :11:51.about that? Did you then think that you are battling against something
:11:51. > :11:57.that was so much bigger than you? My first thought was that I get to
:11:57. > :12:01.take home a call camera. As a young Tron growing up - most athletes
:12:01. > :12:03.dream of getting in that position. It was about half an hour
:12:03. > :12:10.afterwards when people kept on saying - I am really sorry you
:12:11. > :12:15.couldn't get on stage - I thought, you know what... The media backlash
:12:15. > :12:18.in the weeks that followed meant I had way more publicity because I
:12:18. > :12:23.couldn't get on stage than if somebody had picked me up and shot
:12:23. > :12:32.me on board a head men handled me on. It probably did more for my
:12:32. > :12:36.career... That was a moment when it became clear that you were a
:12:36. > :12:40.national sports star. The idea of sports stars is interesting to me.
:12:40. > :12:47.Every sport needs its biggest names. In the Paralympic movement I
:12:47. > :12:52.guessed the biggest name is the South African man, Oscar. He lost
:12:52. > :12:57.both legs below the knee and he runs on blades. He is called a
:12:57. > :13:02.Blade Runner. He is now running so fast that he was disqualified for
:13:03. > :13:06.the - and I used the phrase - the able-bodied World Championships. He
:13:06. > :13:10.clearly wants to make it against the able bodied top competition.
:13:10. > :13:14.You have a problem with that, don't you? I don't have a problem with
:13:14. > :13:21.Oscar competing at the Olympics and World Championships - I think that
:13:22. > :13:27.is positive. Boarding you - "It is not about his advantage or
:13:27. > :13:31.disadvantage, he is just two different". -- quoting you. I think
:13:31. > :13:38.of the athletes and the rules accept him, he should be allowed to
:13:38. > :13:42.run. What I do think is controversial... Everything we have
:13:42. > :13:46.been trying to fight against an to move the Paralympics to be equal
:13:46. > :13:50.with the Olympics would be knocked back if Oscar competes in the 400
:13:50. > :13:53.metre a couple of weeks later, or chooses not to compete and then
:13:53. > :13:59.that event at the Paralympics becomes the event for people who
:13:59. > :14:04.were not good enough for the Olympics. That is a very
:14:04. > :14:07.fundamentalist view. You are suggesting that he is betraying the
:14:07. > :14:17.Paralympic movement by wanting to prove himself against able-bodied
:14:17. > :14:18.
:14:18. > :14:25.Any athlete that had the chance to compete at the Olympics, the chance
:14:25. > :14:35.is still greater. We used to have demonstration races at the Olympics
:14:35. > :14:36.
:14:36. > :14:44.and a number of athletes would only compete there. You clearly see the
:14:44. > :14:54.success of the Paralympics as a message to the world about what
:14:54. > :14:56.
:14:56. > :15:02.disability means. Surely the image of lining up for a final, even on a
:15:02. > :15:12.podium, one that not be the best message about what disability
:15:12. > :15:13.
:15:13. > :15:18.means? It is very positive in the Paralympics can gain coverage.
:15:18. > :15:28.There are athletes around the world, for example a South African swimmer,
:15:28. > :15:31.
:15:31. > :15:37.and Jason Smith from Ireland, it is really positive for them. Does it
:15:38. > :15:47.come back to what you were saying earlier, a two Tia Paralympics with
:15:48. > :15:49.
:15:49. > :15:55.some sports more attractive. -- two-tier. That is probably the
:15:55. > :15:59.reality with the Olympics as well. You will always get that in sport,
:15:59. > :16:04.there will always be a hierarchy. Paralympics has fought really hard
:16:04. > :16:14.to keep moving forward, trying to get to the level and it would be
:16:14. > :16:21.
:16:21. > :16:26.ashamed to throw that away. -- would be a shame. One case raises
:16:26. > :16:30.other questions and not the least is the changing nature of
:16:30. > :16:38.technology in sport. Your wheelchairs, over the years you
:16:38. > :16:43.have been racing, in them, they were redesigned, streamlined,
:16:43. > :16:53.aerodynamic and faster. It does raise the question whether of the
:16:53. > :17:01.
:17:01. > :17:08.designers, the technicians are more important in your sport than the
:17:08. > :17:13.athlete. If your wheelchair is so much more aerodynamic, better
:17:13. > :17:21.designed and faster, you are going to win even if you are not the best
:17:21. > :17:30.athlete. Even the countries that don't have as much money to spend,
:17:30. > :17:40.it is not so much different. It is more different with leg amputations
:17:40. > :17:43.
:17:43. > :17:47.and confusion over the technology. Absolutely. A top 400 metre runner
:17:47. > :17:53.does not think the story should be there because there is a real
:17:53. > :17:58.question about a mechanical advantage from the blades. You
:17:58. > :18:08.wonder where this can stop. Prosthetics can become more and
:18:08. > :18:11.
:18:11. > :18:21.more by a mechanically Engineer it. The rules do not allow them to
:18:21. > :18:27.
:18:27. > :18:34.become bionic. He cannot extend his leg link. -- length. And one
:18:34. > :18:42.company talks about blowing the boundary between man and machine. -
:18:42. > :18:49.- blurring. You are excited about the potential but technology is
:18:49. > :18:53.offering to increase your potential for mobility, all sorts of things.
:18:53. > :18:57.Where right think technology is great, companies will develop
:18:57. > :19:02.things that the benefit people in a wider context. People injured in
:19:02. > :19:09.Afghanistan are being assisted. I know people who have got Bluetooth
:19:09. > :19:13.chips in their legs. They can do some amazing things.
:19:13. > :19:17.Psychologically and for rehab, that is usually positive. This leads me
:19:17. > :19:22.to the thought that really struck me when I was reading about your
:19:22. > :19:27.life. You have said that while other people talk about you being
:19:27. > :19:35.confined to a wheelchair, you never had that view. It was a positive
:19:35. > :19:44.for you. Explain that. When I started to lose the ability to walk,
:19:44. > :19:51.a lot of people were obsessed with walking. I could not walk very far,
:19:51. > :19:58.I fell over, I could not carry anything, play with my friends. The
:19:58. > :20:02.gave me a systems. My parents brought me up to believe that if
:20:02. > :20:07.someone had a problem with a wheelchair it is their problem and
:20:07. > :20:13.not mine. I should never be embarrassed, apologetic. That
:20:13. > :20:18.helped me a lot. Not everyone in a wheelchair comes to it the way I
:20:18. > :20:26.did. I have a lot of friends who had dramatic injuries and feel
:20:26. > :20:30.differently. Differences between nations, the awareness of
:20:30. > :20:35.disability is so different. Do you think this sort of achievement you
:20:36. > :20:40.have illustrated in the sporting arena, do they have a knock-on
:20:41. > :20:47.effect both inspiring disabled people and also sending a message
:20:47. > :20:51.to able-bodied people not to underestimate, patronised disabled
:20:51. > :20:56.people. Is there an important message there? I think that is an
:20:56. > :21:01.important and secondary message of the Paralympics. The first message
:21:01. > :21:09.is to say that it is about sport and the second is to say that
:21:09. > :21:19.disabled people can contribute to society. Have you experienced, as
:21:19. > :21:21.
:21:22. > :21:31.an international competitor, have you experienced negative treatment?
:21:32. > :21:37.
:21:37. > :21:41.I have been pub, prodded. -- poked. It still happens to me sometimes.
:21:41. > :21:46.Can you really convince me that the Paralympics can make a difference
:21:46. > :21:51.to that in terms of attitude? think it has made a massive
:21:51. > :21:58.difference and will continue to do so. When you see disabled athletes
:21:58. > :22:02.in public, look around and you see them on posters advertising the
:22:03. > :22:08.Paralympics, the link to sponsorship. It starts to make
:22:09. > :22:14.people feel that it is more normal, unusual and accepted. It cannot
:22:14. > :22:18.change the view of the world but can be positive. The government
:22:18. > :22:28.says it will build a post Paralympics legacy for disabled
:22:28. > :22:28.
:22:28. > :22:34.sport. Then I hear that support teachers are not given mandatory
:22:34. > :22:44.training on how to get disabled children into mainstream sport. --
:22:44. > :22:46.
:22:46. > :22:52.that teachers of sport. If there is anything that I could achieve in
:22:52. > :23:01.the laws, that is something I would like to do. Also ensure that
:23:01. > :23:07.primary teachers get training in physical education. It is a
:23:07. > :23:12.difficult subject. Legacy is such a buzzword when it comes to the
:23:12. > :23:19.Olympics. What do you believe the legacy of the Olympics, as far as
:23:19. > :23:24.you are concerned with a focus on Paralympics, will be? The immediate
:23:24. > :23:32.increase in the numbers of young people involved like the Wimbledon
:23:32. > :23:38.effect. What is challenging is that everyone is talking about what the
:23:38. > :23:47.legacy will be. As soon as the game's finish, it drops off the
:23:47. > :23:53.face of the Earth. Then it is down to governing bodies, the government,
:23:53. > :23:57.the other home countries to make sure... It is down to your bloody
:23:57. > :24:05.mindedness. Will you be as bloody- minded as an administrator as on
:24:05. > :24:15.the track? Absolutely. Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson, thank you for being
:24:15. > :24:27.
:24:27. > :24:29.Turning pretty chilly out there. Most places will start off the day
:24:29. > :24:34.with some sunshine however most places will see increasing cloud
:24:34. > :24:38.through the day. Some rain eventually arriving in Wales and
:24:38. > :24:42.south-west England. The sunny start across Wales will change through
:24:42. > :24:45.the day. An increasing amount of cloud so make the most of the
:24:45. > :24:50.bright conditions first thing on. Northern Ireland, some cloud in the
:24:50. > :25:00.afternoon. A few showers across western Scotland and they will
:25:00. > :25:06.
:25:06. > :25:11.develop elsewhere during the day. The north-east will start off sunny.
:25:11. > :25:20.In rural areas of England, single digits first thing in the morning.
:25:20. > :25:23.Fresh and sunny for eastern England. A cracking start for East Anglia.
:25:23. > :25:26.Sunny generally across southern England but in the far south-west,
:25:26. > :25:36.the possibility of a shower or two. Showers will develop across
:25:36. > :25:41.
:25:41. > :25:50.northern England and Scotland. Some places will catch a shower. For the
:25:50. > :25:58.Midlands and East England it will stay dry. Cooler further west. The
:25:58. > :26:01.rain will spread into Wales and south-west England. By eight
:26:01. > :26:08.o'clock we could see some of the rain in the Manchester area so it
:26:08. > :26:13.could be a little bit damp for the football. Some of the wettest
:26:13. > :26:23.conditions expected across Cumbria as we head into Tuesday. Light rain
:26:23. > :26:27.elsewhere. It will be a much milder night. 13, 14 degrees in the south.
:26:27. > :26:37.Single digits in Scotland. The wet weather will continue with some
:26:37. > :26:41.brightness possible across the south-east. Tuesday is the
:26:41. > :26:44.cloudiest day of the week thanks to the weather front. There is a