:00:27. > :00:32.Peter Altmaier, welcome to HARDtalk. It is worth reminding viewers and
:00:32. > :00:37.listeners that this can cause market turmoil. Are you conscious
:00:37. > :00:46.of trying not to scare the markets? As the chief, probably they would
:00:46. > :00:50.not listen to me. It is clear and obvious that Germany has a special
:00:50. > :00:58.responsibility. We have to provide leadership together with partners
:00:59. > :01:08.in the eurozone and also with our friends in the UK. Will there be,
:01:08. > :01:13.at the end of this, a Greek default? I hope we can avoid it. We
:01:13. > :01:18.have two goals to be followed at the same time. We want to stabilise
:01:18. > :01:23.the eurozone. We want to keep all 17 member states of the eurozone
:01:23. > :01:30.together of and second, we want to avoid default. That means Greece
:01:30. > :01:36.has to do some homework. They have to consolidate. They have to reform
:01:36. > :01:42.their administrative structures to privatise public enterprises, to
:01:42. > :01:47.organise for free and liberalised markets. While this is under way,
:01:47. > :01:52.we have an ambitious monetary process and we have made it clear
:01:52. > :01:58.several times that the payment of new ventures of money, of fresh
:01:58. > :02:02.money to Greece, depends on the progress that is made in the
:02:02. > :02:11.general reforming process increase. We will come to that in a moment.
:02:11. > :02:19.You just missed the suggestion. There is a growing list of names,
:02:19. > :02:26.some who are so dividend, who think that is no longer possible. -- who
:02:26. > :02:32.are important. He said to stabilise the euro, there can no longer be
:02:33. > :02:42.any taboos. That includes bankruptcy of Greece. Europe should
:02:43. > :02:44.
:02:44. > :02:48.be ready for a default. Also for Portugal and perhaps Ireland. 50
:02:48. > :02:55.economists polled by Reuters - at the main scope on and on for those
:02:55. > :03:01.who now think a default is inevitable. -- it the names broke
:03:01. > :03:07.on. Economy has been sharply criticised by our Chancellor,
:03:07. > :03:14.Angela Merkel. This is not the official line of the government.
:03:14. > :03:21.What they have been doing - we Ardella ripping tours and
:03:21. > :03:28.instruments. -- we are developing. It is not a euro crisis, it is a
:03:28. > :03:33.debt crisis. These tours and instruments we need will be used to
:03:33. > :03:43.deal with a development. We cannot really deter men for the next
:03:43. > :03:53.
:03:53. > :03:58.couple of months. -- determine. We have managed to stabilise the
:03:58. > :04:04.eurozone. As far as Portugal and Ireland and concern, there are a
:04:04. > :04:07.clear signs of recovery in those countries. They are making big
:04:08. > :04:12.progress and we are quite optimistic that Portugal and
:04:12. > :04:18.Ireland will not only pay back the money and guarantees, but they will
:04:18. > :04:23.also pay interest for that. They are to become flourishing countries.
:04:23. > :04:27.The situation in Greece is much more difficult. Just coming back to
:04:27. > :04:35.my question, you have said your economic Minister was reprimanded
:04:35. > :04:39.for speaking out of turn. You cannot slight the opinions of
:04:39. > :04:43.others in the same way. They understand your tools and
:04:43. > :04:47.instruments and your efforts to stabilise Portugal and Ireland.
:04:47. > :04:55.They are saying that a Greek default is in evitable. Please
:04:55. > :05:03.answer that. Greek is a very special case. I would not go that
:05:03. > :05:13.far to say that it is inevitable. We have to keep the markets in mind.
:05:13. > :05:14.
:05:14. > :05:19.We have to look at side effects. At a possible Greg default. That will
:05:19. > :05:25.certainly have the effects on other countries. You are saying it is not
:05:25. > :05:32.desirable. That is not a argument for saying that it is avoidable.
:05:32. > :05:36.say that we will try to avoid it. Whether we can avoid it depends on
:05:36. > :05:43.the behaviour of the Greek government and parliament and on
:05:43. > :05:52.economic developments in Greece. Leading politicians must speak in
:05:52. > :06:02.favour of great default when we are trying to avoid it - that is
:06:02. > :06:03.
:06:03. > :06:07.irresponsible. You can try as many times as you want. What I say is if
:06:07. > :06:14.the Greeks will not meet the conditions, then we will not pay
:06:14. > :06:19.out the next bunch of money. Or at the next few arrangements. This is
:06:19. > :06:26.what has been explained to the present, by President Sarkozy come
:06:26. > :06:32.up by Angela Merkel. They have cancelled a trip to the United
:06:32. > :06:36.States. He is very busy with his colleagues in Cabinet to accelerate
:06:36. > :06:43.the reform process in Greece and we should give them a chance. We
:06:44. > :06:50.should give them a chance to deliver. I can add that my personal
:06:50. > :07:00.concern is it would be much more expensive if we were to allow a
:07:00. > :07:00.
:07:00. > :07:07.Greek default. Then many people would say. We have to be careful in
:07:07. > :07:12.what we are recommending. But us look at that. The chances of
:07:12. > :07:18.avoiding it. You said they have got to meet these conditions. My
:07:18. > :07:27.question is is it possible for them to do so? Despite the austerity
:07:27. > :07:37.measures, the fiscal deficit has widened. The GDP is falling. Bad is
:07:37. > :07:39.
:07:39. > :07:48.very serious. -- that is. To make this clear, we cannot say you have
:07:48. > :07:55.to stick to everything that was promised when it echoed. What we
:07:55. > :07:59.can say is that there are a lot of structural reforms. There are a lot
:07:59. > :08:08.of changes in the administration and legislation. This can be
:08:08. > :08:13.implemented without any problems even in a period of recession. What
:08:13. > :08:19.Wheen need is a credible side of the Greek commitment of reform. It
:08:20. > :08:27.is a very difficult situation. I interrupt you? When you say take
:08:27. > :08:37.account of their it. The British CASA says even if they pay it off,
:08:37. > :08:40.
:08:40. > :08:46.the funds may still not be enough. What if the second bailout is not
:08:46. > :08:53.enough? I think we should deal with the problems step-by-step. First,
:08:53. > :09:01.we have agreed to a bailout one year ago. The second ballot was on
:09:01. > :09:07.22nd July this year. -- bailout. This has not been implemented yet.
:09:07. > :09:15.Let us wait and see what is going to happen. As a responsible
:09:15. > :09:19.politician, I can talk about the next one or two weeks and then we
:09:19. > :09:25.can say what we have to say when we know the developments in Greece and
:09:25. > :09:28.elsewhere. You have to look at the trend. Many economists point to be
:09:28. > :09:34.trained and Sadie austerity measures, which are a condition of
:09:34. > :09:42.the bailout, are making matters worse. They had killing of growth
:09:42. > :09:47.and making it impossible for Greece to cut its deficit. He said the
:09:47. > :09:57.Greek economy is dying. Those were his words. The Greek economy is
:09:57. > :09:58.
:09:58. > :10:07.dying. It is at least in a very serious and critical condition. We
:10:07. > :10:11.need an open it exchange between the use of information. It will be
:10:11. > :10:15.between the Greeks leading politicians. You are saying that
:10:15. > :10:21.conditions are not really conditions - it is negotiable?
:10:21. > :10:27.that is not exactly what I said. They break have to give us reliable
:10:27. > :10:32.figures. We have to be in a position to know exactly what the
:10:32. > :10:39.state of the Greek economy is these days. That means they have to co-
:10:39. > :10:44.operate with the International company. They cancelled the trip to
:10:44. > :10:49.Greece a couple of days ago. We are still not in a position to come to
:10:49. > :10:53.terms with Greece. This is something that has to be changed.
:10:53. > :10:59.He has now realised how serious the situation is and this is why he
:10:59. > :11:02.returned back come from London. He was not going to the US and he has
:11:02. > :11:09.decided to working Greece on a solution. His there are cut off
:11:09. > :11:16.point for you? There has to be a point where you say this is not
:11:16. > :11:22.working, and when is it? It is not up to meet to decide if and when
:11:22. > :11:29.such a point will come. What we can say is that all these dealings with
:11:29. > :11:34.the euro crisis, there has been a process. Doing by learning. We had
:11:34. > :11:37.to accumulate experience and expertise. So far, we have avoided
:11:37. > :11:45.a big recession in the world economy and this is something we
:11:46. > :11:50.have to keep in mind. We and not just talking about Greece. Just 2%
:11:50. > :11:54.of the GDP of the European Union. We are talking about the world
:11:54. > :12:00.economy and the world economy is in a critical situation as the
:12:00. > :12:06.consequence of a debt crisis. The United States as well. Do you have
:12:06. > :12:16.prepared to say when they day will come, that is for Chancellor Merkel
:12:16. > :12:16.
:12:16. > :12:21.to decide. Do you have a contingency plan in Germany for
:12:21. > :12:29.bandaid. I want you to tell me whether Germany has a contingency
:12:29. > :12:34.plan? We have worked out several scenarios for contingency on the
:12:35. > :12:39.European level. This is the famous European financial support facility.
:12:39. > :12:45.It is now under ratification in the 17 national parliaments of the
:12:45. > :12:51.state of the eurozone. It was ratified in Germany on 29th
:12:51. > :12:55.September. This will give us new instruments in order to buy
:12:56. > :13:03.secondary market papers from neighbouring states in order to
:13:03. > :13:09.provide credit lines for States in need in order to take urgency
:13:09. > :13:15.measures were needed. All these new instruments have to be ready as
:13:15. > :13:20.soon as possible. What if agreed default comes about before they are
:13:20. > :13:24.ready? Do you have a contingency for that? I have refused to
:13:24. > :13:32.speculate about agreed to a fault. This is what I am doing on all
:13:32. > :13:37.channels and in all interviews. is a real danger. We have to be
:13:37. > :13:41.very responsible. When we talk and when we talk openly, about the
:13:41. > :13:50.possible theoretical the fault of Greece, then we will risk
:13:50. > :14:00.accelerating the process better for Trips so you have got a plan but
:14:00. > :14:10.you cannot tell us about it. have adopted a urging sake measures.
:14:10. > :14:12.
:14:12. > :14:19.-- emergency. This has been discussed in the German parliament.
:14:19. > :14:24.Stability mechanisms as well. All of these mechanisms... When a
:14:24. > :14:29.global investors says the eurozone must take measures to protect banks
:14:29. > :14:35.and deposit and stop contagion to the sovereign debt of all other
:14:35. > :14:41.states, your answer is that you're already working on it? Exactly.
:14:41. > :14:47.This is the answer. We have made enormous progress over the last 15
:14:47. > :14:53.months. From the beginning, there was nothing in the toolbox. Today,
:14:53. > :14:57.we have a number of instruments. Perhaps you remember in mid- August,
:14:57. > :15:04.when Italy and Spain came under pressure, then we could use some of
:15:04. > :15:09.these instruments and will be managed to avoid problems and this
:15:10. > :15:16.is what we should have in mind all the time, or we have to avoid a
:15:16. > :15:22.domino effect so, side-effects, we have to do our utmost to deal with
:15:22. > :15:27.the crisis in a responsible way. what you are trying to avoid, as I
:15:27. > :15:31.understand, is a situation where Greece defaults before you have got
:15:31. > :15:38.everything in your toolbox that you need so that you can avoid
:15:38. > :15:41.destabilising Portugal, Ireland, Italy and Spain, you can avoid
:15:42. > :15:49.destabilising banks who called Greek government bonds, you can
:15:49. > :15:52.avoid a run on Greek bans spreading throughout Europe. -- banks. That
:15:52. > :15:58.would avoid another credit crunch which would bring about another
:15:58. > :16:02.global recession. If the worst does happen, we would have to be
:16:02. > :16:06.prepared to avoid all of these effects. There is still a
:16:06. > :16:13.reasonable chance to avoid the worst. This is what we are trying
:16:13. > :16:16.to achieve. We have a couple of weeks towards that and I would
:16:16. > :16:24.certainly not recommend to give up before we have tried everything we
:16:24. > :16:31.can do to avoid the worst case scenario. It is outside the scope
:16:31. > :16:35.of our possibilities, then, of course, we have to be prepared and
:16:35. > :16:40.this is what the political leadership has to provide, for the
:16:40. > :16:44.sake of Europe and for the sake of the Western world. What about
:16:44. > :16:50.looking to kill Greece instead of demanding punitive austerity from
:16:50. > :16:55.Greece. --? Say, it is a global slowdown, they cannot move at that
:16:55. > :17:04.speed, it is politically unsustainable so what about
:17:04. > :17:09.something different? This has been voiced by the CEO of Alliance, a
:17:09. > :17:13.global financial services agency. He said the problem could not be
:17:13. > :17:20.stopped and they will need money, and industrialise --
:17:20. > :17:24.industrialisation plan. I agree wholeheartedly. It cannot be
:17:24. > :17:33.rescued by austerity measures alone. Certainly, these measures have to
:17:33. > :17:38.be applied. But, in addition to that, we need a kind of support
:17:38. > :17:46.initiative for Greece. We have to stimulate economic growth. This has
:17:46. > :17:50.to be done, not in the first place by money, Greece was not able to
:17:50. > :17:57.use all of the money from the structural funds made available for
:17:57. > :18:01.Greece, they could only use 35 or 40 % because the structures did not
:18:01. > :18:06.exist to use it, and, therefore, we have to reform the domestic
:18:06. > :18:13.structures increase. We are prepared to give assistance to our
:18:13. > :18:17.Creek friends and, in doing this, we have a huge experience from
:18:18. > :18:24.privatisation in Germany over the last 20 years. -- Greek. This is
:18:24. > :18:32.what we have to do. In Greece, most of the professions are regulated.
:18:32. > :18:35.What about giving them a direct aid and what about boosting demand in
:18:35. > :18:44.northern Europe, particularly Germany, to help them grow their
:18:44. > :18:51.way out of this crisis? All of these ideas are under
:18:51. > :18:56.examination in Germany, France, other countries as well. We are
:18:56. > :19:01.prepared to look this way over the next couple of months. I repeat, we
:19:01. > :19:08.need a strong signal from Greece that Greece itself is determined
:19:08. > :19:13.and decided to undergo reform. about the question of the political
:19:13. > :19:19.mood at home? Do you have the luxury of a couple of months to do
:19:19. > :19:25.all this? You are doing what the German public increasingly does not
:19:25. > :19:30.support. The evidence is their 4th in the opinion polls and at the
:19:30. > :19:39.polls themselves. You are losing elections. Another defeat for the
:19:39. > :19:45.CDU in regional elections. As far as last Sunday is concerned, we
:19:45. > :19:51.have increased our vote by 2.5 %. It was certainly not enough to
:19:51. > :19:57.govern Berlin. The political leadership in a moment of crisis
:19:57. > :20:02.should not look at opinion polls, should not like at popular support,
:20:02. > :20:08.we have got to do what we think is important to do in order to
:20:08. > :20:15.reassure markets and that order to help Greece and overcoming that the
:20:15. > :20:19.crisis. How can you say that? You are a parliamentarian who is
:20:19. > :20:25.supposed to be representing your public. Cricket you say that you
:20:25. > :20:30.are not supposed to listen to opinion polls? -- how can you say?
:20:30. > :20:34.75 % disapproved in a recent opinion poll. 55 % said a bail-out
:20:34. > :20:40.should never be used again, even if that was a question of eurozone
:20:40. > :20:45.survival. Or you seeing do not listen to your public? -- are you
:20:46. > :20:51.saying? We do what we have to do. We have to do would be judged to be
:20:51. > :20:54.important and write in a moment of crisis. When the eurozone was
:20:55. > :21:01.introduced, a large number of German people were against the idea
:21:01. > :21:05.of the euro but we have done it as part of political leadership in
:21:05. > :21:10.Germany and the result or the last 10 years was brilliant and grade.
:21:10. > :21:14.The German economy has benefited enormously from the euro. So have
:21:14. > :21:23.all the other countries concerned as well, for almost 10 years. It
:21:23. > :21:29.means that now, again, we have to decide together... When you say we,
:21:29. > :21:35.who is the way? You have a coalition where there are many
:21:35. > :21:40.different voices. We spoke about the leader of the FDP, CSU, the
:21:40. > :21:44.other partners, they do not like this policy and their growing more
:21:44. > :21:54.Euro-sceptic. Do you have an effective be any more in your
:21:54. > :22:00.coalition? -- we. That is an important point. As Chief of, I am
:22:00. > :22:09.convinced that we will produce our own majority in parliament. -- as a
:22:09. > :22:15.chief whip. I expect the backing of about 90 % of all MPs in Germany
:22:15. > :22:20.for the European arrangements that are essential. They will take place
:22:20. > :22:23.on 29th September. That is the crucial date in Germany. There is a
:22:23. > :22:28.strong and broad consensus in Germany and that could help us
:22:28. > :22:34.enormously. A consensus between parliamentarians but not
:22:34. > :22:39.necessarily the public. Chancellor Merkel has said if the euro fails,
:22:39. > :22:48.Europe fails. Some Germans are beginning to ask if it would not be
:22:48. > :22:53.best for Germany itself to leave the euro. These are public debates.
:22:53. > :22:58.Public debates are normal in a democratic country. According to
:22:58. > :23:01.the polls, the number of German people -- a number of German people
:23:02. > :23:08.might say it could be better to leave the euro. Economic figures
:23:08. > :23:14.tell us a completely different story. The euro is in the economic
:23:14. > :23:19.interests of Germany. We have got a tradition of a cross-party
:23:19. > :23:25.consensus on basic European decisions. I am optimistic that we
:23:25. > :23:30.can maintain this consensus and more than that. We will have to
:23:30. > :23:34.discuss the ideas. You are optimistic. We shall see that there
:23:34. > :23:44.you are right. Thank you for joining us on HARDtalk. -- whether
:23:44. > :23:56.
:23:56. > :24:03.We have some rain on the way today. It is moving its way southwards
:24:03. > :24:07.across the UK. Either side of the weather front, quite a bit of nice
:24:07. > :24:12.weather to be found. If you get stuck under the weather front, you
:24:12. > :24:16.will see quite a significant spell of rain and a pretty wet day. Here
:24:17. > :24:20.is the front. A little bit of uncertainty as to exactly where the
:24:20. > :24:23.weather front will come to lie during Tuesday. Currently we think
:24:23. > :24:27.it will bring rain through the north-east of England and into East
:24:27. > :24:31.Anglia. It will fall into the Midlands, the southern half of
:24:31. > :24:41.Wales and, later in the day, into England. Cloud initially and a warm
:24:41. > :24:42.
:24:42. > :24:45.start to the day. Further north, clearer, Brighton's conditions. --
:24:45. > :24:47.brighter. Some scattered showers for the north-west of Scotland.
:24:47. > :24:50.Outbreaks of rain across Lincolnshire and the Midlands. Much
:24:50. > :24:53.brighter skies across northern England. A mixture of sunny spells
:24:53. > :25:03.and some scattered but sharper showers. Feeling fresher here as
:25:03. > :25:05.well. Temperatures are 15 or 16. 16 degrees in Belfast with a lot if
:25:05. > :25:14.brightness. North Wales should brighten up during the second half
:25:14. > :25:17.of the day. Further south, the rain will linger on and gradually extend
:25:17. > :25:21.into the south-west of England. For some of our hills, we could be
:25:21. > :25:25.looking at 20, 30, maybe even 40 mm of rain before we are through with
:25:25. > :25:29.this weather front. A cool afternoon in the south of England.
:25:29. > :25:32.That is because of a fund across the Midlands. Temperatures in Kent
:25:32. > :25:35.hitting the low 20s. The front will move on overnight into Wednesday.
:25:35. > :25:44.Clear conditions behind it but then another weather system moving into
:25:44. > :25:49.the west of the UK. As soon as we get rid of one front, we pull in
:25:49. > :25:53.another. Some wet and windy weather, particularly for Scotland and
:25:53. > :25:57.Northern Ireland. We should get rid of that front in the east of
:25:57. > :26:00.England on Wednesday. It will feel cooler for Northern Ireland and
:26:00. > :26:03.Scotland, particularly thanks to the wind and also with some heavier,
:26:03. > :26:08.more persistent rain at times across Scotland to the middle of
:26:08. > :26:13.the week. It will feel cooler for Northern Ireland and Scotland,
:26:13. > :26:17.particularly start to the wind and some more persistent showers. --