:00:10. > :00:18.have an overall majority. Now on BBC News it is time for HARDtalk.
:00:18. > :00:21.The man you're about to see has the face and the will of a survivor.
:00:21. > :00:25.Robert King has spent much of his life in prison, 29-years in
:00:25. > :00:29.solitary confinement, in one of the toughest jails in the United States.
:00:29. > :00:31.He'd been a petty criminal, who was then, he says, framed for a series
:00:31. > :00:38.of much bigger crimes partly because he joined the black
:00:38. > :00:41.nationalist movement, the Black Panthers. Now he's out of jail,
:00:41. > :00:44.he's campaigning for the release of two other elderly black prisoners,
:00:44. > :00:54.both of whom have spent more that 30 years in solitary. And the US,
:00:54. > :01:11.
:01:11. > :01:21.says Robert King, dares to call itself, The Land of the Free.
:01:21. > :01:25.
:01:25. > :01:31.Robert Shing, welcome to HARDtalk. He has said you were born in do --
:01:31. > :01:37.in the USA, you're black and poor, it is little wonder you ended up in
:01:37. > :01:44.prison. Thank you, good to be sure. That statement came from the known
:01:44. > :01:50.fact that I was born in America. I was born black. I was born poor, I
:01:50. > :02:00.was a post war world two baby. Racism, discrimination, whatever
:02:00. > :02:06.
:02:06. > :02:14.you wants to refer to come up all of this existed. If you look past
:02:14. > :02:20.the age of 17-20, you ended up in prison of the graveyard. This is
:02:20. > :02:30.the way it was. You are saying there was no escape from crime?
:02:30. > :02:32.
:02:32. > :02:38.There was no escape from poverty, which I believe is linked to crime.
:02:38. > :02:47.People who come into a society, the first sign against them is the
:02:47. > :02:57.colour of their skin, this is a pathway of poverty, a pathway of
:02:57. > :02:58.
:02:58. > :03:04.racism and discrimination. I think this leads to a life of crime.
:03:04. > :03:10.teenager you had become a petty criminal, but things went severely
:03:10. > :03:16.downhill for you in 1971 at the age of 19. You were convicted of an
:03:16. > :03:26.armed robbery and sentenced to 35 years. You say, you were framed.
:03:26. > :03:32.
:03:32. > :03:38.Correct. I was. Having had a previous record, I had robbery some
:03:38. > :03:48.five years earlier. 6-7 years earlier. I was automatically a
:03:48. > :03:50.
:03:50. > :03:55.suspect. If you had any kind of previous record in our community,
:03:55. > :04:02.if a crime was committed, you were a prime suspect. There were many
:04:02. > :04:08.people who were suspects. Once a crime is committed, and unsolved
:04:08. > :04:13.crime, they would look at the record of anyone who has been
:04:13. > :04:19.convicted. This was not the least, it was the testimony of another
:04:19. > :04:28.black man that led to the sentence of 35 years. This individual was
:04:28. > :04:37.arrested on a crime. He said the person who was with him, a dark-
:04:37. > :04:47.skinned male and so forth, the victim stated this, when the police
:04:47. > :04:52.
:04:53. > :05:02.showed him my mug, he knew... We did not know each other. He stated
:05:03. > :05:04.
:05:04. > :05:11.in open court that he was beaten. They told him that I was with him.
:05:11. > :05:18.You were sent to this prison that was called and dollar, in Louisiana.
:05:18. > :05:23.-- Angola. It had a reputation for being the toughest prison in the
:05:23. > :05:30.state in a time when prison conditions were quite bad. It was
:05:30. > :05:40.pretty tough. At the time we are speaking of, there were periods it
:05:40. > :05:42.
:05:43. > :05:50.was tougher, it was still tough in 1970. You had it been made guards
:05:50. > :05:59.who were the backbone of the prison. They had shotguns. If an individual
:05:59. > :06:07.try to escape, they would catch that individual. People worked for
:06:07. > :06:13.two sense an hour. Sugar-cane was the main crop at that time. Some
:06:13. > :06:23.people worked for 17 hours a day. Some of the guards are dissipated
:06:23. > :06:24.
:06:24. > :06:34.in raping young get inmates with the permission of the authorities.
:06:34. > :06:38.
:06:38. > :06:48.-- the -- participated. Racism was in the present, but brutality was a
:06:48. > :06:50.
:06:50. > :06:53.threat. -- prison. People were brutalised big time. You say the
:06:53. > :06:59.administration was racist, but a lot of this violence was black men
:06:59. > :07:06.against black men, wasn't it? may have been black men against a
:07:06. > :07:13.black man but it was perpetrated by a white administration. The inmate
:07:14. > :07:22.guards consisted of white and black. The majority of the inmates were
:07:22. > :07:26.black. You also had white inmates. The entire administration was white.
:07:26. > :07:36.You had no African-American who was part of the administration at that
:07:36. > :07:41.
:07:41. > :07:47.time. You escaped and recaptured come much you were involved in
:07:47. > :07:52.riots, this added to an already huge sentence. It is when you came
:07:52. > :07:56.back to the prison in 1971, you had a new mood of defiance about you,
:07:56. > :08:06.this is because he had experienced the Black Panthers, is that
:08:06. > :08:07.
:08:07. > :08:14.correct? Yes. I was being held in a detention centre even though I had
:08:14. > :08:24.been given a 35-year sentence. I was waiting for my direct appeal to
:08:24. > :08:26.
:08:26. > :08:36.become exhausted. After that I received eight more years and I was
:08:36. > :08:41.
:08:41. > :08:48.sent to an -- Angola. That is when you joined the Black Panthers.
:08:48. > :08:54.had become politicised, I began to see that I had no rights, I was a
:08:54. > :09:01.slave. I was being treated like a slave. The only choice I had was to
:09:01. > :09:05.rebel. The Black Panthers were not about the assertiveness that Martin
:09:05. > :09:10.Luther King talked about, non violence, they were about violence
:09:10. > :09:15.if it was deemed necessary. Black Panthers started out for
:09:15. > :09:23.self-defence. The media is the one who turned the movement into one
:09:23. > :09:31.about anger and black men. One of the leaders of the Black Panthers
:09:31. > :09:38.was convicted for the murder of a Californian police, one of the
:09:38. > :09:43.leaders at a Black Panther meeting, he is the only true leader, how
:09:43. > :09:50.many white folks have you kill today? None of the members that I
:09:50. > :09:57.knew were there. Newton was convicted, but he was acquitted and
:09:57. > :10:03.released from prison. There was a question about whether he had
:10:03. > :10:08.killed or not. Even Newton at the time he was shocked. The record
:10:09. > :10:18.shows they tried to kill him while he was in the hospital. The Black
:10:19. > :10:19.
:10:19. > :10:24.Panthers were seen at the time as a threat. The perception was, they
:10:24. > :10:34.were prepared to fight against racist police and Cooper Clarke's
:10:34. > :10:35.
:10:35. > :10:41.plan. They were seen as a threat. This was a time in Vietnam, people
:10:42. > :10:48.were protesting against the Vietnam War. Yes, the perception was that
:10:48. > :10:55.they were violent. This was systemic. They demonised. They
:10:56. > :10:59.demonised the Black Panthers. joined the Black Panthers. When you
:10:59. > :11:09.were back in prison you met up with two other people who were involved
:11:09. > :11:16.
:11:16. > :11:25.in the Black Panthers, afraid and Hamann -- Alfred and Herman who
:11:25. > :11:31.were convicted of the murder of a prison guard. How far do you
:11:31. > :11:36.believe that you and they were targeted because your members?
:11:36. > :11:42.was targeted because I was a member, I have reason to believe they were
:11:42. > :11:52.targeted. What is the evidence? was placed under investigation for
:11:52. > :11:53.
:11:54. > :12:02.it. I was 150 miles away from the prison and I was charged... I had
:12:02. > :12:12.never met the man in my life. There was no evidence apart from the paid
:12:12. > :12:12.
:12:12. > :12:20.testimony of a snitch and informant. So you and these other two who
:12:20. > :12:29.became known as the three, you were seen as troublemakers, you were
:12:29. > :12:35.placed in solitary confinement in closed cell restricted. After all
:12:35. > :12:39.the violence you have talked about, the threat, the fear, the rake, the
:12:39. > :12:43.slave labour you have called it in the rest of the prison, you might
:12:44. > :12:50.think that solitary confinement was a respite, but the way you have
:12:51. > :13:00.talked about it, it sounds as if it was an even worse punishment?
:13:00. > :13:10.it really was not a respite. Solitary confinement became an
:13:10. > :13:13.
:13:13. > :13:17.issue later on. We were all imprisoned unjustly. We were
:13:17. > :13:26.fighting for freedom from the prison. Give me a sense of how
:13:26. > :13:34.tough it is to be locked up for 23 hours a day for decades at a time?
:13:34. > :13:39.At the time, like at pointed out, it is no easy task to be in prison.
:13:39. > :13:47.Prison is horrible. To be locked up 23 hours a day, is nothing someone
:13:47. > :13:52.would dream about. I thought it was horrible. It felt horrible. I was
:13:52. > :14:02.able to weather the storm because I had a different mindset. I had
:14:02. > :14:03.
:14:03. > :14:10.become bleakly aware an eyesore America as one big prison. --
:14:10. > :14:14.politically aware and I saw America. I had a different mindset. With
:14:14. > :14:20.this different mindset I was able to weather the storm. I did not see
:14:20. > :14:26.myself as a prisoner, as a perpetrator, but a victim. You say
:14:26. > :14:33.you're a victim, even on solitary confinement, he were convicted for
:14:33. > :14:43.the murder of another inmate, again, you say your friend? -- you were
:14:43. > :14:46.
:14:46. > :14:50.framed. Yes, the court agreed with In the end you had to agree to the
:14:50. > :14:54.plea bargain of conspiracy to commit murder. And anyone could
:14:54. > :14:58.have plead guilty to wait if they wanted to charge anyone. They could
:14:58. > :15:08.have charged 11 other people with conspiracy. But there are only
:15:08. > :15:10.
:15:10. > :15:16.charged me. Be charged the man who committed to the crime... It was an
:15:16. > :15:24.inmate who later decided that he went home as a result online on me.
:15:25. > :15:31.He decides tell the truth. He told the trees. -- trip. Were you guilty
:15:31. > :15:38.of conspiracy? Nem mac. I was there and I knew another inmate was
:15:38. > :15:47.killed. I knew he was killed in self-defence. When I did not write
:15:47. > :15:53.on him. That was conspiracy. left prison into the other end one
:15:53. > :16:03.after a 29 years in solitary. With the stain still on your reputation
:16:03. > :16:12.
:16:12. > :16:20.DVD was a price worth paying? -- the big... We had become known as
:16:20. > :16:25.the Angola 3. Most of our supporters felt that they could
:16:25. > :16:35.have charged anybody with conspiracy. They chose to charge me
:16:35. > :16:40.
:16:40. > :16:44.which validated that I was targeted. Since you release you have been
:16:44. > :16:51.campaigning for the release of the other two members of the Angola 3,
:16:51. > :16:58.Herman Wallace and Albert Woodfox. They spend more than 30 years in
:16:58. > :17:06.solitary confinement. It is close to 40. They are back in solitary
:17:06. > :17:14.confinement in Louisiana. The warden of Angola Prison, N 2008,
:17:14. > :17:18.said of Albert Woodfox he still has a sense of violence. He is still
:17:18. > :17:23.practising the movement of black panther. I do not want him to walk
:17:23. > :17:31.around a prison because he would organise the young inmates. Do you
:17:31. > :17:40.recognise that that man is still much of a third? I recognise that
:17:40. > :17:50.he stuck to his trend. They are being kept in solitary confinement
:17:50. > :17:53.
:17:53. > :17:57.because of their political beliefs. Not because there are any proof.
:17:57. > :18:07.Another man said Albert Woodfox said he was a mild man in another -
:18:07. > :18:09.
:18:09. > :18:19.- from another source. What has changed for you in the past 50
:18:19. > :18:19.
:18:19. > :18:24.years? Most of which you spend in prison. Prison numbers in the EU --
:18:24. > :18:34.in the US seems to be going up. One in ten black men between the ages
:18:34. > :18:35.
:18:35. > :18:42.of 25 and 29 end up in prison. How are you trying to change that? What
:18:42. > :18:51.are you trying to do in order to reverse that trend? I want people
:18:51. > :18:56.to revisit the concept of a prison. That figure rises because
:18:56. > :19:03.systemically, the US is still a racer society. There is
:19:03. > :19:07.discrimination. -- racist society. We have to take the system -- look
:19:08. > :19:17.at the system of legality. We have to see prison as a new form of
:19:18. > :19:19.
:19:20. > :19:24.slavery. People equate legality and morality as equals. It is not so.
:19:24. > :19:30.There is social responsibility of course but it is -- there is
:19:30. > :19:40.individual responsibility as well. People do not have to be sucked
:19:40. > :19:44.into a life of crime. They do not have to. Herman and Abba did not
:19:44. > :19:48.sucked into a life of crime. The fact they were sucked into it is
:19:48. > :19:58.not the reason they were in prison. They were in prison because they
:19:58. > :20:07.became members of the Black Panther Party. They would not conform to a
:20:07. > :20:11.prison as it was at that time. problem with politics in many
:20:11. > :20:21.countries including the US is that it is a vote loser to start saying
:20:21. > :20:31.
:20:31. > :20:38.we need to lock up your people. -- less people. A previous politician
:20:38. > :20:48.said I came here to make a better America, there are more people in
:20:48. > :20:49.
:20:49. > :20:59.prison cells and when I took offers. -- I took office. They think it
:20:59. > :20:59.
:20:59. > :21:05.will be a better society. Most people do not believe about either.
:21:05. > :21:09.We have to look at the system itself. If politics motivate
:21:09. > :21:17.actions and for people to do it immoral things, we have to look at
:21:17. > :21:27.the politics. The prison inmates to be changed. That is my focus. That
:21:27. > :21:27.
:21:27. > :21:35.is what I hope to achieve. We can look at prison by much different
:21:36. > :21:41.manner that can reflect... If they have to be a prison, it has to be
:21:41. > :21:50.sprinkled with morality. Politics has placed a bigger -- played a
:21:50. > :21:54.bigger party. It has been ten years since she came out of prison. --
:21:54. > :22:04.that you came out. What has been the biggest prat -- surprise for
:22:04. > :22:10.
:22:10. > :22:15.you? What has been the thing that grips you most? What to grips me
:22:15. > :22:25.most is the great leap in technology. I have noticed how far
:22:25. > :22:26.
:22:27. > :22:31.we have come. I am in all of that. Having caught up to it? I think I
:22:31. > :22:38.have. But unfortunately, I do not think I have called up to the
:22:38. > :22:43.system. That is an external thing. Often people who come out of prison
:22:43. > :22:48.after long periods in jail, especially if they had been victims
:22:48. > :22:52.of miscarriages of justice, they say it is incredibly difficult to
:22:52. > :23:00.lead a normal life and to fill normal and connected to other
:23:00. > :23:06.people. How do you cope? I do not feel that way. I am sorry if I go
:23:06. > :23:14.against the normal. We have something to do with how we feel. I
:23:14. > :23:20.was in prison. But I did not allow prison to get in me. With this
:23:21. > :23:28.mindset, I was able to weather the storm. You do not feel bitter now?
:23:28. > :23:36.I do not feel bitter to the extent... I would use the term of