:00:04. > :00:14.tasks. Those are the latest headlines. Now
:00:14. > :00:34.
:00:34. > :00:39.Square. People power topples Hosni Mubarak, now it has turned on
:00:39. > :00:49.Egypt's military rulers. HARDtalk is on the road in a country
:00:49. > :00:56.
:00:56. > :01:01.preparing for elections but Central Cairo, once again a
:01:02. > :01:06.crucible for confrontation. In the last few days democracy activists
:01:06. > :01:11.and each of's security forces have been fighting running battles in
:01:11. > :01:17.and around Tahrir Square -- Egypt. These processes have lost trust in
:01:17. > :01:21.each of's military rulers -- these protesters. Some are calling for a
:01:21. > :01:31.secondary revolution to bring down the generals. This is no overnight
:01:31. > :01:33.
:01:33. > :01:37.storm. Tension and anger have been brewing for months. Field Marshal
:01:37. > :01:43.Hussein Tantawi has been each year's military ruler since
:01:43. > :01:47.President were Barak was toppled. He promised stability, but has
:01:47. > :01:57.delivered bloodshed -- President Hosni Mubarak. Protesters say he
:01:57. > :02:00.
:02:00. > :02:04.must go. October 9th was a turning point in the course of each year's
:02:04. > :02:10.revolution. Thousands of demonstrators, mostly Coptic
:02:10. > :02:15.Christians, gathered outside the state TV building, protesting about
:02:15. > :02:19.a spate of sectarian attacks. The response was brutal. Protestors
:02:19. > :02:25.were hit by sniper fire and armoured vehicles which careered
:02:25. > :02:32.down the streets. 27 demonstrators were killed. The forces of
:02:32. > :02:37.oppression and made their mark. It is almost as though Egypt is
:02:37. > :02:44.reliving the momentous days of January. Last Friday the square was
:02:44. > :02:51.filled with is a mess and secular protesters demanding an end to
:02:51. > :03:00.military rule -- is the mist. -- is the mist.
:03:00. > :03:04.The internet is stoking up fervour. Wed designer -- this wear designer
:03:04. > :03:14.is part of a network committed to confronting what he sees as a
:03:14. > :03:15.
:03:15. > :03:21.military counter-revolution -- wear designer. -- -- where the designer.
:03:21. > :03:27.In your opinion, had the revolution happened or is it yet to happen?
:03:27. > :03:37.The revolution is just getting started. Why do you sound so
:03:37. > :03:42.cautious? When we toured the streets in January it was we wanted
:03:42. > :03:51.to completely destroy the regime. We did not want someone else he
:03:51. > :03:58.would keep the same policies and keep killing people. That is why we
:03:58. > :04:03.need to continue. We have just done minimal before. To what extent do
:04:03. > :04:08.you feel yourself to be a marked man in Egypt? Going through
:04:08. > :04:18.military trials and spending a couple of days in prison and having
:04:18. > :04:23.a sentence puts on a makes it seem like me -- like I am more a marked
:04:23. > :04:31.man than other people. If you run into trouble again you will go
:04:31. > :04:35.inside. Yes. But let's be frank. Almost every revolutionary Egyptian
:04:35. > :04:45.has that risk. Just because you are in the wrong place at the wrong
:04:45. > :04:47.
:04:47. > :04:53.time, if you are not happy, then they do not need any excuse. What
:04:53. > :04:59.does that mean? You were arrested in May after a demonstration and
:04:59. > :05:03.went through the military process. What did you learn? You get the
:05:03. > :05:10.welcome message as they call its in military prison. We were in our
:05:10. > :05:16.cells. They were running out of cells. We were in ourselves one
:05:17. > :05:22.night and we saw a new group being welcomed. -- our selves. They were
:05:22. > :05:29.being strip search. -- hour cells. They were being tortured and
:05:29. > :05:33.humiliated right in front of us. But I am getting at the
:05:33. > :05:37.psychological relationship between the military and people like you,
:05:37. > :05:43.who regard themselves as revolutionaries. Is there a sense
:05:43. > :05:50.of hatred between you and then? is difficult to generalise. I can
:05:50. > :05:57.sell you the Military Council is wary of revolutionary Egyptians in
:05:57. > :06:02.general -- I can tell you. Some are against the military is, some are
:06:02. > :06:07.just against the leaders. I am against the entity because it is
:06:07. > :06:12.completely corrupt. I can tell you there are tens of thousands who
:06:12. > :06:17.take the streets every day knowing there is a hanging risk. We do that
:06:17. > :06:23.because we think that is the best for everyone. How representative
:06:23. > :06:29.are you? You sip before me, Westernised, university educated,
:06:29. > :06:35.spend some time in the US, sounding American and Egyptian, there is a
:06:35. > :06:42.charge against some of the Cancer revolutionaries as they are not
:06:42. > :06:46.connected to the mass of Egyptian people -- canter. Many people on
:06:46. > :06:51.Twitter Seer get carried away. They think they represent the majority
:06:51. > :06:58.went they are in fact just on social networks. That is true.
:06:59. > :07:03.were part of that closed elite circle of revolutionaries? I find
:07:03. > :07:10.myself in that atmosphere, if you will. I try to remain on the ground
:07:10. > :07:20.as much as possible, to not lose a sense of reality and think they are
:07:20. > :07:21.
:07:21. > :07:25.Twitter that represent Egypt. Our best weapon is the numbers. We are
:07:25. > :07:28.a lot of people. By now we seem like a minority but the military is
:07:29. > :07:37.committing more and more Arrows. We may not have weapons or
:07:37. > :07:42.Shakespeare's but we have -- experience but we have numbers --
:07:42. > :07:47.more errors. Egyptians have lost their fear of speaking out but
:07:47. > :07:52.criticising the generals can have dire consequences. I drove this
:07:52. > :08:02.essential cover to meet the media revolutionaries determined to
:08:02. > :08:03.
:08:03. > :08:07.challenge the red lines imposed by the military. 25 TV is a new
:08:07. > :08:12.network, named after the day the revolution started in January.
:08:12. > :08:20.Almost all the staff are young people plucked from the Tahrir
:08:20. > :08:28.Square demonstrations. They say they are trying to wean Egyptians
:08:28. > :08:38.offered a diet of state propaganda. Armed troops raided the studio and
:08:38. > :08:42.
:08:42. > :08:46.presenters screamed. It became a YouTube sensation. This lady is one
:08:46. > :08:51.of the best-known journalists and quit TV when the revolution began
:08:51. > :08:58.because of censorship. Then a new managers persuaded her to return,
:08:58. > :09:04.promising an end to all interference. Credible or not?
:09:04. > :09:10.Welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you. much genuine freedom does the media
:09:10. > :09:14.in Egypt have today? Very little. I'm afraid to say there has been a
:09:15. > :09:20.regression in Freedom's since the revolution. We thought things would
:09:20. > :09:26.be different. At the beginning there was a ray of light because
:09:26. > :09:32.new channels, new television channels, were being lodged. New
:09:32. > :09:37.publications were out. -- being launched. It was becoming a more
:09:37. > :09:43.vibrant media. Us all our hopes were dashed when the Minister of
:09:44. > :09:52.Information said, no more permits for new channels, the emergency law
:09:52. > :09:56.has been revitalised. That allows for arrests of civilians without
:09:56. > :10:01.charge, including journalists. There has been a lot of
:10:01. > :10:04.intimidation. Many of my friends were summoned by the military
:10:04. > :10:11.prosecutor for investigation. I have received warnings about some
:10:11. > :10:17.of my stories. What I am seeing is that we have gone back. I am
:10:17. > :10:26.puzzled by your decision making. You quit as the youth revolution
:10:26. > :10:34.unfolded in January and quit. You said you felt liberated after a
:10:34. > :10:41.year's of hypocrisy. Yet you are now working again? Y? I went two
:10:41. > :10:46.months after the uprisings because I adore this was the new Egypt.
:10:46. > :10:52.Hopefully, you can only push for reforms as an insider. Eyes thought
:10:52. > :10:57.he was a national duty to go back and try to push the boundaries of
:10:57. > :11:03.freedom -- I thought. Only by doing a weekly programme I have a control
:11:03. > :11:10.over the content. Do you really have control? So far so good.
:11:10. > :11:14.spoke to one senior media executive yesterday in Cairo. He said what
:11:14. > :11:19.the Egyptian state media is broadcasting today is a crime
:11:20. > :11:24.against the people of Egypt. They seem to be undermined in everything
:11:24. > :11:29.that the revolution was supposed to stand. I totally agree with every
:11:29. > :11:33.word. That is what they did during the revolution. They gave distorted
:11:34. > :11:39.pictures of what was happening. They continue to live to the public.
:11:39. > :11:45.They continue to do it today. They used to be Hosni Mubarak. He was
:11:45. > :11:53.the red line. Now it is the military. You need the Supreme
:11:53. > :11:58.Council of the armed forces? They are the new red light. It is more
:11:58. > :12:02.self censure share. People are so scared. They are worried because
:12:03. > :12:10.they have lived under oppressive rule for years. They have a built-
:12:10. > :12:13.in fear inside them. They continue to practise self-censorship. It is
:12:13. > :12:19.difficult to practise the truth when you know the cost can be
:12:19. > :12:24.higher. I am not just thinking about your circumstances. There are
:12:24. > :12:30.people who have been imprisoned, who are allegedly being abused,
:12:30. > :12:36.saying. There is a case of a plodder who wrote things about the
:12:36. > :12:41.military. He was sentenced to three years of hard labour -- a blocker.
:12:41. > :12:47.He was tried in a military court just for expressing his views on
:12:47. > :12:53.Facebook. All he did was right his own views. He said the people in
:12:53. > :12:58.the army are not one and he got a three-year jail sentence. I do not
:12:58. > :13:01.know how to describe it but I feel so angry when I think about that.
:13:01. > :13:07.This is the new Egypt and we thought we would get our freedom
:13:07. > :13:15.that we would be able to express our views freely. Thank you for
:13:15. > :13:22.being on HARDtalk. Thank you. Condemnation of the current
:13:22. > :13:32.military regime is spreading. Alexandra, the judge's second city,
:13:32. > :14:09.
:14:09. > :14:16.is a hotbed of political Many Egyptians are unwilling to let
:14:16. > :14:22.the army keeps the old order intact. This is a society on age. It is now
:14:22. > :14:26.marked by mistrust and a thwarted expectations have changed. Friday
:14:26. > :14:31.prayers has just ended and as you can see there are hundreds of
:14:31. > :14:35.people around the mosque. It is a real centre of political debate. If
:14:36. > :14:43.we look at some of the posters that people had brought to show to the
:14:43. > :14:49.public outside the mosque, why are you here today? The revolution must
:14:49. > :14:59.be continued. Do you think there is a danger it will not be continued?
:14:59. > :15:01.
:15:01. > :15:06.Yes. We have not got a constitution. You do not trust the Supreme
:15:06. > :15:16.Council of the Armed Forces? Yes. You believe they are a continuation
:15:16. > :15:17.
:15:17. > :15:24.of the Barak? Yes. Unstable, fearful, Egypt is now dangerously
:15:24. > :15:28.polarised. I headed towards the narrow streets of Cairo's market.
:15:28. > :15:38.Here, traders have seen political turmoil scare of tourists and it
:15:38. > :15:39.
:15:39. > :15:43.hobble the economy. A reminder that many Egyptians see the army as the
:15:43. > :15:53.Egyptians best guarantee of stability. White you believe that
:15:53. > :15:56.
:15:56. > :16:03.the field marshal and his friends really want democracy? Because it
:16:03. > :16:12.is too heavy. Hosni Mubarak wasn't a hard situation. Do the Egyptians
:16:12. > :16:16.really trust the army? All the people who know the army it is very
:16:16. > :16:25.good. The army is beginning to look like it does not really believe in
:16:25. > :16:29.democracy? Are you prepared to trust the army? How long do you
:16:29. > :16:37.want the military to be in control of this country? Just long enough
:16:37. > :16:45.to protect the way of choice. protect the people while they make
:16:45. > :16:51.the choice? That's it. And to put us on the way up democracy. We need
:16:51. > :16:56.democracy step-by-step. Egypt is on the edge of chaos. Boating is
:16:56. > :17:02.supposed to start in parliamentary elections next week. Right now this
:17:02. > :17:08.country's path to democracy is littered with obstacles. The ruling
:17:08. > :17:15.military council rebuffed requests for an interview. I did meet one
:17:15. > :17:21.member of an increasingly beleaguered government.
:17:21. > :17:26.Will come to HARDtalk. As a minister in the government you are
:17:26. > :17:36.responsible to the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces. Ha you
:17:36. > :17:48.
:17:48. > :17:54.convinced of their commitments to You say it is clear, if it is so
:17:54. > :18:04.Claire then a wire is a state of emergency it still in place in this
:18:04. > :18:04.
:18:04. > :18:51.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 46 seconds
:18:51. > :18:53.country ten months after the Despite the fact we are only days
:18:53. > :18:58.away from nationwide parliamentary elections you are telling me that
:18:58. > :19:08.as far as you are concerned there is still a sense of emergency it
:19:08. > :19:28.
:19:28. > :19:34.A functioning democracy is about more than just voting and going to
:19:34. > :19:37.the polls, it is about all the institutions of a civil society.
:19:37. > :19:42.Not least the quotes and the judiciary. What we see right now I
:19:42. > :19:48.know what -- Egypt are military courts. We see civilian protesters
:19:48. > :19:58.being put before military courts and being sent to prison. That is
:19:58. > :20:15.
:20:15. > :20:18.That is not right, is it? They are still people going through the
:20:18. > :20:24.military courts. We have people on the internet to have been sentenced
:20:24. > :20:34.in sight in military court because of things they have written. It is
:20:34. > :20:41.
:20:41. > :20:46.The Ministry of Information was one of the symbols of the Hosni Mubarak
:20:46. > :20:50.regime. It is a place where censorship took place, where the
:20:50. > :20:54.press was manipulated. If you wanted to make a break with the
:20:55. > :20:58.past why you continue to sit in your chair as Minister of
:20:58. > :21:08.Information? We did not have been better to abandon this concept
:21:08. > :21:24.
:21:24. > :21:29.I will quote you some words from someone who as a long presence in
:21:29. > :21:34.it Egyptian state and radio. These are her words, not mine. The army
:21:34. > :21:44.is in complete control of the media. They have simply replaced Hosni
:21:44. > :22:03.
:22:03. > :22:11.Mubarak. They are more intent to If this spirit of change that you
:22:11. > :22:18.talk about his journey when, why is it that the boss of a radio and
:22:18. > :22:28.television is a senior figure from the old ruling party. Why did you
:22:28. > :22:56.
:22:56. > :23:03.I find your answer very difficult to understand. It seems to be quite
:23:03. > :23:09.simple. He was a senior figure inside the old ruling party. He
:23:09. > :23:19.still sits inside it Euro state TV and radio as the boss. Why not get
:23:19. > :23:25.
:23:25. > :23:30.I have spoken to many journalists who know you from your previous
:23:30. > :23:33.life as a writer and journalist here in Egypt. They say they are
:23:33. > :23:43.deeply disappointed that he decided to take a role way you are nothing
:23:43. > :24:22.
:24:22. > :24:28.more than a cup that for your Egypt's revolution is claiming it
:24:29. > :24:33.new casualties. Ten months ago the armed forces positioned themselves