:00:10. > :00:14.great man. That's it from me. Time to bring your HARDtalk.
:00:14. > :00:19.These are tough times to be in power. In the UK politicians battle
:00:19. > :00:24.with the impact of the financial crisis, their every action
:00:24. > :00:29.scrutinised by a vigilant sometimes even intrusive media. My guest
:00:29. > :00:34.today on HARDtalk is the Conservative MP, Zac Goldsmith. He
:00:34. > :00:39.is from one of Britain's most famous and rich families. He has
:00:39. > :00:44.had his personal e-mails accessed during the hacking scandal. He
:00:44. > :00:48.wants a privacy law. He is at odds with his party leadership over
:00:48. > :00:58.Europe and the environment. Is he damaging the very causes he wants
:00:58. > :01:17.
:01:17. > :01:26.to advance by being too outspoken and disloyal to the government?
:01:26. > :01:30.Zac Goldsmith, welcome to HARDtalk. You have had your personal e-mails
:01:30. > :01:35.accessed, but frankly, many would say, that is one of the risks you
:01:35. > :01:40.have to take being rich and famous. That is the argument that has been
:01:40. > :01:45.used many, many times. I watched a Hugh Grant's submission to the
:01:45. > :01:50.Leveson inquiry, I was very impressed. If I was to send you a
:01:50. > :01:54.pint of milk, you would agree to pay whatever the price beforehand,
:01:54. > :02:02.that does not give you the right to enter my house uninvited, open my
:02:02. > :02:11.fridge and burgle the milk. That is right. When people engage with the
:02:11. > :02:20.media on every level, there is a two way process. It is a mutually
:02:20. > :02:23.agreed process. The Leveson inquiry you are talking about, Lord Lasan
:02:23. > :02:30.looking into the allegations about the links between the press and
:02:30. > :02:36.people who hacked into e-mails and so on. The fact is, which you have
:02:36. > :02:40.become a Conservative MP if he were not from a rich and famous family?
:02:40. > :02:45.Your two grandfathers were Conservative MPs. You're late
:02:45. > :02:51.father, the famous industrialist. do not describe my sister as a
:02:51. > :02:57.Conservative. She is well known. principal concern is the
:02:57. > :03:01.environment. That is a cross-party issue. That is not just by the
:03:01. > :03:09.Conservatives or the Liberal Democrats or Labour. That is my
:03:09. > :03:12.principal motivation. My bias, my default position is more in sync
:03:12. > :03:20.with Conservative thinking than with the other parties and that is
:03:20. > :03:27.why I joined the Conservative Party. That is fine. When you said that
:03:27. > :03:32.media interest in your affairs goes only so far... But you have
:03:32. > :03:40.benefited from your name recognition? Absolutely. I was
:03:40. > :03:46.editor of the ecologist magazine for ten years. That is not normally
:03:46. > :03:52.of media interest, but it was because of my name. Why do you want
:03:52. > :03:56.the privacy law? When you enter politics, in any case you expect
:03:56. > :04:01.the bar to be higher. I would not apply the same rules to myself as
:04:01. > :04:08.other people. I believe someone like Hugh Grant is entitled to
:04:08. > :04:13.privacy. He is one of many people giving evidence at the inquiry.
:04:13. > :04:20.are entitled to privacy. I think there is a limit. If I were to rush
:04:20. > :04:26.around my constituency portraying myself as something which I am not,
:04:26. > :04:35.whenever hypocrisy can be exposed by the press it should be. Whenever
:04:35. > :04:41.hypocrisy it may be revealed by the press... In 2009 you were not a MP.
:04:41. > :04:48.You're standing in 2010. There were revelations of your non domiciled
:04:48. > :04:54.tax status. I think that is entirely legitimate. I think the
:04:54. > :05:00.reports are wrong, I know they are wrong. I have had the status all my
:05:00. > :05:08.life. I have not avoided paying tax. I had a letter from Price
:05:08. > :05:12.Waterhouse my accountants. My constituents had a right to know.
:05:12. > :05:21.Your party leader was not Prime Minister at the time. He said he
:05:21. > :05:27.had been checked in the dark. never asked me to change it. A lot
:05:27. > :05:33.of things are reported in the press... I never had a conversation.
:05:33. > :05:39.I was asked by the Times, do you have none domicile status? The
:05:39. > :05:47.answer was no. Did the leadership ask you to change it? No-one ever
:05:48. > :05:55.asked me to change it. You say you did not get any financial benefits
:05:55. > :06:03.from it, but as Vince Cable said, he is now a Cabinet minister, being
:06:03. > :06:09.a nun domicile gives off the wrong citizen. It is for short-term
:06:09. > :06:16.expatriates in the city and it is becoming discredited. I do accept
:06:16. > :06:21.that. Ten years ago no-one knew what the term meant. Nowadays we do.
:06:21. > :06:31.It was a label attached to me without my knowledge. It was not
:06:31. > :06:39.something I knew about or took advantage. The reality is, I have
:06:39. > :06:43.not avoided paying tax. I was able to persuade my constituents, I had
:06:43. > :06:50.a larger swing than anyone else in the country. I believe I got my
:06:50. > :06:54.arguments across. You want a privacy law. I think we need to.
:06:54. > :07:04.This is an area where there is a huge outrage about elements of the
:07:04. > :07:04.
:07:04. > :07:13.media. We have seen abuse of power on an awesome scale. It is accepted
:07:13. > :07:18.that this is an organisation that is too big. You say awesome. Let me
:07:18. > :07:24.tell you what Professor Steven Barnett says, professor of
:07:24. > :07:29.communications at Westminster University, much of the truly
:07:29. > :07:35.egregious behaviour is down to corporate culture, not individual
:07:35. > :07:43.bad intent. I 100% agree with him. This awesome power that the
:07:43. > :07:48.organisation has, it abuses the power. When you have an entire
:07:48. > :07:52.political class that is terrified of pointing the finger. I think
:07:52. > :07:58.that becomes very dangerous for democracy. I would like to see a
:07:58. > :08:02.reaction in law. There would be a huge catastrophe if we got it wrong.
:08:02. > :08:07.I want the press to be able to point the finger and expose
:08:07. > :08:14.hypocrisy for all. I want there to be a line, an acceptable line,
:08:14. > :08:18.beyond which the press has no right to probe. That is what I hope will
:08:18. > :08:23.emerge from this incredible fiasco that we are seen at the moment.
:08:23. > :08:27.say you do not want to stifle the media. Let me tell you what Ian
:08:27. > :08:35.Hislop says, if you are rich and powerful, you do not have to prove
:08:35. > :08:39.it is not true, you just have to prove it is private. You are one of
:08:39. > :08:48.some very well off people, who have able -- been able to keep their
:08:48. > :08:53.private life out of the media. have taken out a super-injunction.
:08:53. > :09:01.But this is not an act which anyone, including in his lot, would oppose.
:09:01. > :09:09.My e-mails where illegally hacked. They are private. Newspapers have
:09:09. > :09:13.no business publishing them. cost you a fortune? That is a
:09:14. > :09:19.problem. Access to justice should not cost a fortune. But you can
:09:19. > :09:26.afford it. I want a change in the law so that everyone has access to
:09:26. > :09:30.justice when necessary. We need to recognise that the newspapers
:09:30. > :09:34.nowadays are the rich and the powerful. It is about time the
:09:34. > :09:38.authorities help them to account. That has not happened. That is why
:09:38. > :09:42.we are seeing this extraordinary thing happened at the moment.
:09:42. > :09:46.Jeremy Hunt says we do not want a privacy law, that does not mean we
:09:46. > :09:51.were not look at some access of the legislation, to try and get it
:09:51. > :09:56.right. Are you satisfied with that? I wanted in-law what is private and
:09:57. > :10:06.what is public. If we do not do that the newspapers will always be
:10:07. > :10:10.
:10:10. > :10:15.able to cross the line in an unhealthy man of -- manner. We have
:10:15. > :10:20.to see what the outcome of the Leveson inquiry is on that. This
:10:20. > :10:24.idea of the rich and famous. We see many protest all over the world
:10:24. > :10:30.about the growing gap between the rich and poor and inequality. What
:10:30. > :10:34.do you think about that? I have a lot of sympathy. I have a lot of
:10:34. > :10:41.sympathy for this outpouring of anger that we are seeing. I would
:10:41. > :10:49.like to see the message encapsulated and made more Treasury.
:10:49. > :10:54.-- coherent. When things get too big we lose our bargaining power.
:10:55. > :11:00.When the newspaper gets too big we cannot hold them to account. When
:11:00. > :11:06.the government gets too big which cannot hold democracy to account.
:11:06. > :11:11.That is one of the problems with the European Union. We have created
:11:11. > :11:15.a situation where organisations and institutions have got too big. If
:11:15. > :11:25.that is the message of the protesters by M 100% behind them.
:11:25. > :11:27.
:11:27. > :11:37.What do you not like about them? I am 100%. I do not want it engage in
:11:37. > :11:38.
:11:38. > :11:42.any criticism. But overcrowding a public space... We are seeing in
:11:42. > :11:47.some European countries, Italy and Greece, they have got unelected
:11:47. > :11:52.government by technocrats. People talking about a disconnect between
:11:53. > :11:59.people and their governments. The IMF and European Central Bank are
:11:59. > :12:03.calling the shots... That is an extreme example. A lot of people
:12:03. > :12:11.argue that a lot of the decisions made in this country are made by
:12:11. > :12:15.unelected officials. In Brussels? Because of the European Union, our
:12:15. > :12:19.government has had to ignore Parliament. That is a really
:12:19. > :12:25.serious thing. You have to wonder what is the point of elections in
:12:25. > :12:32.this country. You want Britain out of the European Union. You will one
:12:32. > :12:37.of those Conservative MPs who voted against the government's wishes,
:12:37. > :12:47.saying you back a referendum deciding Britain's relationship
:12:47. > :12:49.
:12:49. > :12:53.with the European Union. In the ideal world, the outcome I would
:12:53. > :12:58.like is where we see genuine renegotiation. There are all kinds
:12:58. > :13:02.of hours I would like to see restored to this country. I think
:13:02. > :13:06.it would be very difficult. I do not think any government would be
:13:06. > :13:10.able to renegotiate the repatriation without a referendum.
:13:10. > :13:15.We probably need to withdraw to decide what kind of future we want
:13:16. > :13:20.with Europe. You disobeyed the party leadership by voting for a
:13:20. > :13:25.referendum, you paid for the -- paid the price for that, didn't
:13:25. > :13:29.you? You had been appointed a government special envoy on climate
:13:29. > :13:33.change, that had been taken away from you. It has. I was fired
:13:33. > :13:43.before the announcement was made. There was announcement by the
:13:43. > :13:53.President of Gabon. It was picked up by the newspaper's... You were
:13:53. > :13:54.
:13:54. > :14:00.told? This is an area of real interest to me. I will focus on our
:14:00. > :14:04.role as a backbencher, as an envoy if that happens, I do not need a
:14:04. > :14:10.formal position to maintain my interest. That is one of the
:14:10. > :14:18.reasons I became an MP. undermine David Cameron? You have
:14:18. > :14:28.done that. You voted against him, the largest backbench rebellion
:14:28. > :14:30.
:14:30. > :14:35.since World War II. You have the three-line whip imposed by your
:14:35. > :14:39.party or constituents, I made a pledge to my constituents. I made
:14:39. > :14:49.it very clear, if I'm given an opportunity to vote for
:14:49. > :14:52.
:14:52. > :14:55.renegotiation or repatriation of Irrespective of whether you
:14:55. > :15:02.undermine the Prime Minister? It was humiliation for the Prime
:15:02. > :15:09.Minister. If he can't win an argument with his backbenchers how
:15:09. > :15:14.can he win it with the Country? This was handled badly. There was a
:15:14. > :15:21.good consensus for the need of a rethink in relations with Europe.
:15:21. > :15:28.By imposing 33-line the route, so it was a mistake. A petition was
:15:28. > :15:34.signed by more than 100,000 people. They got it wrong. Maybe it was
:15:34. > :15:40.embarrassing. But I am described as a rebellious backbencher. You
:15:40. > :15:48.describe me as that. But I have voted with my party more than 90%
:15:48. > :15:55.of the time. If that is anything other than loyalty, you need to
:15:55. > :16:01.rethink those terms. Europe is a big issue. It was the fact that you
:16:01. > :16:06.were part of the biggest ever at backbencher rebellion since the war
:16:06. > :16:13.resulted in these kind of comments about humiliation. You suffered by
:16:14. > :16:19.not having your job as a Climate Change Minister. I did not stand
:16:19. > :16:26.for election to have a lobotomy. I am an independent backbencher. I
:16:26. > :16:31.will always put my conscience and my constituents first. If I had
:16:31. > :16:36.voted against that motion I would not have been able to look my
:16:36. > :16:42.family, my constituents or myself in the i. It would have been
:16:42. > :16:47.impossible to carry on. I am not the kind of employee. I am happy to
:16:47. > :16:53.be an effective backbencher. I am learning. There are things I can do
:16:53. > :16:59.as a backbencher which I could not do as a junior minister. That would
:16:59. > :17:07.be a hellish existence. I like to get things done. I want to change
:17:07. > :17:13.things. You want to be influential on the environment. What influence
:17:13. > :17:21.are you will drink? The Government is going back on its environmental
:17:21. > :17:27.credentials. The Government has been unfairly chat sties. I am a
:17:27. > :17:32.green. I am very interested in this issue. If you look at what the
:17:32. > :17:37.Government promised before the election and what made it into the
:17:37. > :17:43.Coalition agreement, twice as many environmental commitments as any
:17:43. > :17:51.other area of policy. And it is being delivered. We have a Green
:17:51. > :17:56.investment Bank. It is not as big as we would have liked. It is a �3
:17:56. > :18:02.billion fund. It is not big enough or soon enough but it is a big step
:18:02. > :18:08.in the right direction. We have the green deal which is the most
:18:08. > :18:18.Biggest efficiency energy programme in the world. It needs to be over-
:18:18. > :18:23.
:18:23. > :18:32.charged.-Turbo-charge. But the Government is on track. Raising the
:18:32. > :18:39.Speed limit to 80mph? Those figures have been debated. It is not an
:18:39. > :18:43.issue that agitates me at all. Nobody will change this be because
:18:43. > :18:50.of those laws. The key thing is we understand the priorities and
:18:50. > :18:56.pursue them. We are beginning to. I cannot pretend the entire body of
:18:56. > :19:02.the Treasury has fully understood the transition that we have to make.
:19:02. > :19:07.I can't pretend they all understand that. For many people in Treasury,
:19:07. > :19:15.environmental policy is still a cost. That is hugely important. But
:19:16. > :19:20.the Treasury is more open to these ideas than ever before. When George
:19:20. > :19:26.Osborne told the Tory party conference that he would not save
:19:26. > :19:33.the planet by it putting the country out of business, business
:19:33. > :19:39.interests would be paramount? he said is not new or wrong. One
:19:39. > :19:44.concern was that he said it. The biggest risk if you ask any
:19:44. > :19:49.business investor in the green technology sector, they will tell
:19:49. > :19:54.you is the Government, political conservatism. When you hear this
:19:54. > :20:03.kind of thing it makes you reluctant to pouring money in. I
:20:03. > :20:08.would like to see more clarity. It is not a big boast because we have
:20:08. > :20:13.never had a Green government. We must be greener than we ever had
:20:13. > :20:18.have been before. We need to promote the green deal, expand
:20:18. > :20:24.Green investment. But that is not being done. Let me tell you what
:20:24. > :20:34.Tim Montgomerie told you. He said the Government has decided this is
:20:34. > :20:39.a boat-losing issue, green issues. -- vote-listen. A poll earlier this
:20:39. > :20:44.year asked voters what their main concerns were. The top of the list
:20:44. > :20:50.was the rising price of energy. That has always been the case. If
:20:50. > :20:55.you ask people who are hungry, their top concern will be food. If
:20:55. > :21:00.you do not have a house, your concern is shelter. If your
:21:00. > :21:05.children are it hopeless schools, your concern is education. But that
:21:05. > :21:12.does not mean the environment is not the most important concern. For
:21:12. > :21:16.a responsible government must recognise that. At a time of
:21:16. > :21:21.economic crisis if we must find solutions that work with business
:21:21. > :21:27.and human nature. But you do not agree with your own party on the
:21:27. > :21:31.nuclear issue. The Government backs nuclear power. You do not. I think
:21:31. > :21:37.the Government policy is about right. It is the same policy I
:21:37. > :21:41.advocated before the election. My view it is if the Government sticks
:21:41. > :21:48.to the policy there will not be any new power plants. Let me make a
:21:48. > :21:52.prediction. The only way we will seek new nuclear power plants is if
:21:53. > :21:57.the Government breaks its promise on subsidies. There has never been
:21:57. > :22:03.a nuclear power plant built without public subsidies. We will see what
:22:03. > :22:07.happens. But the gist of what I have been saying about privacy laws,
:22:07. > :22:11.Europe and the environment, is that you are marching out of step with
:22:11. > :22:16.the party leadership. I heard what you said about wanting to be an
:22:16. > :22:20.effective backbencher, but some would say why it did you go into
:22:20. > :22:26.politics and joined the Conservative Party because you knew
:22:26. > :22:31.you had to toe the line stopover I see my job in Parliament as
:22:31. > :22:37.reminding people of the biggest shoes. We had a debate about fuel
:22:37. > :22:44.costs. I agreed with a lot of it but nobody made the point that
:22:44. > :22:49.Western democracies and $1 trillion every year to unstable regimes
:22:49. > :22:56.because of higher addictions to oil. We must reduce our dependence on
:22:56. > :22:59.oil to solve these problems. Yes in the short-term level we must help
:22:59. > :23:06.people through the economic price - - crisis, but the only long-term
:23:06. > :23:14.solution is good policy. That is why I got involved in politics.
:23:14. > :23:18.would you remain a rebel with a cause? The I am not pursuing a
:23:18. > :23:22.ministerial career, but I have a lot of time for David Cameron.
:23:22. > :23:27.There are some good people in government pushing this agenda. My
:23:28. > :23:33.job is to push the Government, keep them on their toes, scrutinise
:23:33. > :23:37.decisions. Our job as backbenchers is to hold the Government to
:23:37. > :23:42.account. That does not happen enough. We need more independence
:23:42. > :23:48.on the backbench. We must give the Government a hard time on a routine