:00:05. > :00:15.without being paid. Those are the headlines. That's it from me for
:00:15. > :00:18.
:00:18. > :00:21.now. It is time for HARDtalk. HARDtalk is in the heart of
:00:21. > :00:31.London's West End for a special interview with one of the great
:00:31. > :00:31.
:00:31. > :00:34.enduring stars of European cinema, Claudia Cardinale. She was a
:00:34. > :00:37.favourite of the renowned Italian directors Fellini and Visconti.
:00:37. > :00:39.After half a century of screen performances, her new work is still
:00:39. > :00:49.winning critical acclaim. Her passion for acting is undimmed, but
:00:49. > :00:57.
:00:57. > :01:03.what about her feelings for the movie business? Claudia Cardinale,
:01:03. > :01:08.welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you. have a fascinating background. You
:01:08. > :01:13.were born and raised in Tunisia by parents who were Italian, you spent
:01:13. > :01:18.your early years speaking and thinking in French. Absolutely.
:01:18. > :01:25.When people ask you where are you from, what do you say? I have three
:01:25. > :01:35.places. My family, three generations in Tunisia from the
:01:35. > :01:43.
:01:43. > :01:50.first war. The origin is the island of women. Tunisia is the place
:01:51. > :01:55.where I am born. Do you speak Arabic? My father speaks very well.
:01:55. > :02:05.Did you ever learn Arabic? school we learnt English, not
:02:05. > :02:07.
:02:07. > :02:12.Arabic. Italian passport. I wonder, we are going to talk about your
:02:12. > :02:17.career, you have worked all over the world with all sorts of
:02:17. > :02:21.different actors and directors and languages, I wonder whether the
:02:21. > :02:28.openers you have to that sort of international career, did that come
:02:28. > :02:38.from your background? -- openness. When I was very young I wanted to
:02:38. > :02:44.explore the world. It was my dream. When they asked me to do cinema, I
:02:44. > :02:54.refused for a long time. The more I said no, the more they insisted. It
:02:54. > :02:54.
:02:54. > :02:59.is like with boys. If you say yes immediately, they go away. Where
:02:59. > :03:07.did that come from? You did not go to drama school, you had no formal
:03:07. > :03:17.training. What was it that people saw in you? First of all, I was
:03:17. > :03:21.
:03:21. > :03:26.only fighting with boys. I was a boy. I was terrible. One French
:03:26. > :03:35.director came to my school to ask me to do cinema. I did not look at
:03:35. > :03:45.him, I went away. He disappeared. His first movie was a documentary.
:03:45. > :03:52.
:03:52. > :03:56.It was in Arabic. The second one was Omar Sharif. Then we had a very
:03:56. > :04:05.important thing for the Italian Embassy, I was helping my mother
:04:05. > :04:15.with my sister. It was the election of the most beautiful girl, Italian
:04:15. > :04:15.
:04:15. > :04:25.Girl in Tunisia. I did not present myself. A beauty contest. Someone
:04:25. > :04:28.
:04:28. > :04:38.arrived, he grabs me, he put me on the stage. You won the first fries?
:04:38. > :04:41.
:04:41. > :04:51.Yes, by accident. Then you were invited to Italy? Yes, I was in
:04:51. > :04:54.
:04:54. > :04:59.bikini. We had the paparazzi... Is was the first bikini. What amazes
:04:59. > :05:05.me, from that chance experience of getting into this a beauty contest
:05:05. > :05:12.by accident, ending up in Italy, within two years of that you were
:05:12. > :05:16.working with two of Italy's greatest ever directors, you were
:05:16. > :05:26.part of the golden age of Italian cinema, it happened so quickly?
:05:26. > :05:26.
:05:26. > :05:31.is incredible. I signed a contract with a very important producer. In
:05:31. > :05:38.Venice a lot of producers asked me to do cinema. I did not want to. I
:05:38. > :05:45.came back to Tunisia, in the newspaper it was written the girl
:05:45. > :05:55.refused to do cinema. After a long time I came back and I decided to
:05:55. > :05:58.
:05:58. > :06:07.do it. I was doing four movies a year. It was with all the big
:06:08. > :06:17.actors. The big actors and the big directors. Visconti and Fellini...
:06:18. > :06:19.
:06:19. > :06:29.6 c3 it was a golden year for you, you were working with Fellini, two
:06:29. > :06:37.
:06:37. > :06:42.of Italy's greatest directors and movies. I did four movies with them.
:06:42. > :06:49.Visconti was a very demanding director, we know that. Like
:06:49. > :06:55.theatre. It was very controlled. No spontaneity. He wanted everything
:06:55. > :07:05.just so. You were in your early 20s with no acting training, were you
:07:05. > :07:08.
:07:08. > :07:16.intimidated? He was fantastic with me. I do not know why, he always
:07:16. > :07:21.said, she looks like a cat but she is a tiger. Tell me about Fellini.
:07:21. > :07:31.I cannot help thinking about the way Italy yesterday, Fellini was
:07:31. > :07:35.making movies about the beauty and the decadence of Italy. He said
:07:35. > :07:44.this, there is this tragic fascination of watching a boat go
:07:44. > :07:48.down and taking an entire epoch with it. When you look back at that
:07:48. > :07:58.period of brilliant movies and brilliant directors, does it seem
:07:58. > :07:59.
:07:59. > :08:05.like the end of something? It was realism... This was the top for
:08:05. > :08:11.Italy at this time. The funny thing is, Fellini and Visconti were the
:08:12. > :08:18.two opposite. Fellini had no script. He was talking to me and I was
:08:18. > :08:28.answering. It was not written. just filmed whatever came out
:08:28. > :08:42.
:08:42. > :08:48.naturally? Absolutely. Can you imagine... Is was fantastic. With
:08:48. > :08:53.Visconti it was impossible to speak and to smile. Nothing, silence.
:08:53. > :09:00.With Fellini, everyone had a telephone and was speaking. A sort
:09:00. > :09:07.of chaos? Yes, because if it was silent you could not create.
:09:07. > :09:13.Sticking to this point of what has happened, both to the Italian movie
:09:13. > :09:15.industry, the country as a whole, we have just seen Berlusconi
:09:15. > :09:23.resigned in a cure it where it Italy is struggling with political
:09:23. > :09:27.and economic chaos, do you see something of a Fellini's message,
:09:27. > :09:37.it is stuck with its old glories and cannot live up to them any
:09:37. > :09:43.
:09:43. > :09:49.more? -- Berlusconi resigned recently. From Italy, you went for
:09:49. > :09:55.a time in America. People in Hollywood saw your movies, they
:09:55. > :10:05.wanted you to come and some of them want it to sign you up to contracts
:10:05. > :10:06.
:10:06. > :10:11.to be a studio star. Why did you say no? Because... I was living in
:10:11. > :10:21.the House of Paul Newman. Can you imagine? With Paul Newman in it or
:10:21. > :10:28.not? He was not. He was with his wife in another place. I have been
:10:28. > :10:37.very lucky. I have a lot of friends. Steve McQueen was always coming to
:10:37. > :10:45.Rome to try the Ferrari. He was always coming to my house. They
:10:45. > :10:50.asked me to sign the contract, but I refused. You did some successful
:10:50. > :11:00.Hollywood movies, you did the first Pink Panther movie. You did the
:11:00. > :11:04.professionals. I was the only woman there. I was the only woman
:11:04. > :11:12.surrounded by men. Here is the thing, it seems to me that you were
:11:12. > :11:18.on the very brink of being one of the very biggest stars in Hollywood,
:11:18. > :11:24.but you did not grasp that opportunity? Is that because you
:11:24. > :11:33.did not like the way Hollywood works? It was because everything
:11:33. > :11:43.was very strict. I wanted to be independent and free. Of course I
:11:43. > :11:44.
:11:44. > :11:49.did many movies there as well. But I wanted to live in Europe. Your
:11:49. > :11:52.work, you were seen as a very strong-minded independent woman, I
:11:52. > :12:02.just wonder whether you felt there was a danger of being a beautiful
:12:02. > :12:04.
:12:04. > :12:09.woman actor, of being typecast for your sexuality and nothing else?
:12:09. > :12:17.Packaged in what sense? Some of your contemporaries, I'm thinking
:12:17. > :12:21.of Brigitte Bardot, Sophia Loren, they are thought of as the sex
:12:21. > :12:29.symbols. I wonder whether you wanted to deliberately walked away
:12:29. > :12:35.from that? Yes, I always refused to do scenes naked. Always. They asked
:12:35. > :12:40.me many times. I said no, I do not want to sell my body. I want to be
:12:40. > :12:47.judged on the acting. How much pressure did you come under? Many
:12:47. > :12:56.times they asked me. I remember the professionals. There was one scene,
:12:56. > :13:06.Burt Lancaster was supposed to take me, he wanted me naked. I said no.
:13:06. > :13:11.
:13:11. > :13:21.I went to the studios of universal, I told them myself. I said to
:13:21. > :13:26.Richard, I do not want to. I never Do you think you made some enemies
:13:26. > :13:34.in the business because of that? I don't thindon't thin, I remember
:13:34. > :13:38.when I did a movie with Brigitte Ba Baas very funny. It was
:13:38. > :13:48.the blonde against the brunette. Have you shooting the movie in
:13:48. > :13:50.
:13:50. > :13:58.Spain. -- we were shooting. All the paparazzi were following us around.
:13:58. > :14:02.It was 1971, there was a sense that you two were in a way, rivals for
:14:03. > :14:10.being the number one European actress. Did you get a you get a
:14:10. > :14:15.wa wavalry and jealousy? at all. For me, thank you actors I
:14:15. > :14:21.love are Marlon Brando and the Duke -- Brigitte Bardot. He became
:14:21. > :14:25.friends? Absolutely. We never had problems. Thing for a moment about
:14:25. > :14:28.the top actoe top actoy, particularly women actors. We have
:14:28. > :14:34.talked about some of the pressures women face in the business. What
:14:34. > :14:43.would you say to them today? Do you think it is hard todayhard today
:14:43. > :14:49.your sense of self- and identity? Yes, it is harder. First of all, at
:14:49. > :14:55.the time, cinema was a dream. Now it is not. Of violence, special-
:14:55. > :15:01.effects. It is not the reality. Some scenes are fake, they're not
:15:01. > :15:10.real. I like the dream. You seem to have fallen out with the business
:15:10. > :15:15.to a certain extent. Is that true? That is why I am working with very
:15:16. > :15:24.young directors. I do not care about money. It is important to
:15:24. > :15:28.help young directors. I have been doing what serve first movies.
:15:28. > :15:32.Let's talk about the sorts of movies you are making in a minute,
:15:32. > :15:37.but you have raised an interesting point. You have deliberately
:15:37. > :15:47.decided to work on small-budget films, international films. Is
:15:47. > :15:54.th th of you, your ego, which misses the big budgets, the
:15:54. > :16:00.Box Office, the whole spectacle Hollywood? I don't care! Honestly?
:16:00. > :16:09.Not even a part of that looks at the Oscars every year and at...
:16:09. > :16:19.Well, I have presented the Oscars. The only problem is now, 53 years,
:16:19. > :16:20.
:16:20. > :16:23.they invite me all over the world and I'm always travelling. The
:16:24. > :16:29.marvellous thing is the letters that I receive from all over the
:16:29. > :16:36.world. Fantastic. Let's talk about some of your more recent movies.
:16:36. > :16:45.You are in London because there is a London Turkish film best ball.
:16:45. > :16:55.You made a very interesting movie in which you play an Italian widow
:16:55. > :16:58.
:16:58. > :17:03.who takes a young Turkish man as a lodger. The funny thing is that the
:17:03. > :17:12.director translated the film into Italian. All the Turkish had to
:17:12. > :17:21.speak Italian. But it was fantastic. The funny thing is, in front of the
:17:21. > :17:26.character's house is written, "Men and dogs are not admitted. Oh --
:17:26. > :17:30.admitted" because when she was very young, her husband went with
:17:30. > :17:39.another woman. And from there that moment, she did not want to see
:17:39. > :17:45.another man! But just to be clear, that is not you? No, I never got
:17:45. > :17:49.married anyway. Talking about this may be allows me to draw out a
:17:49. > :17:55.bigger theme because it seems in quite a few of your recent movies,
:17:55. > :18:01.you have worked as part of a collaboration between Muslim
:18:01. > :18:07.artists and Western actors and artists. For the last decade, there
:18:07. > :18:13.has been a debate about whether Muslim cultures are compatible with
:18:13. > :18:20.the values that we see in Western art forms. What your experience,
:18:20. > :18:29.what do you think? First of all, if you remember Lawrence of Arabia, in
:18:29. > :18:39.the desert, it was fantastic. I like to work there. I did a film
:18:39. > :18:46.three years ago which was incredible about homosexuality.
:18:46. > :18:53.is set in Tunisia or? The thing is, the day before shooting, the
:18:54. > :19:01.Minister came around and said, no. It is impossible to direct. Because
:19:01. > :19:07.of the sensitive subject and themes? Exactly. A lot of better
:19:07. > :19:17.dealt with sexuality, a young man coming back to Tunisia from
:19:17. > :19:21.
:19:21. > :19:27.France... Exactly. We were supposed to go to Tunisia the day after. The
:19:27. > :19:33.minister asked if I was there, and the director said yes. And he said
:19:33. > :19:38.okay, you can do the movie. Because you are Tunisian! That movie caused
:19:38. > :19:43.a big stir because of the themes, a gay young man, a lesbian character.
:19:43. > :19:46.It seemed like everybody involved in that movie was really asking
:19:46. > :19:53.some serious questions about how much artistic freedom you could
:19:53. > :20:02.have. In a country like Tunisia. Also because there it is time do.
:20:02. > :20:07.It does not exist. Thank you boys were always looking after -- the
:20:07. > :20:13.two boys were always looking after women. The scenes were very hard. I
:20:13. > :20:21.had to concentrate because otherwise I was laughing. He had to
:20:21. > :20:25.keep in mind that these guys were not gay. It is interesting that you
:20:25. > :20:30.have this Tunisian experience because Tunisia is where the Arab
:20:30. > :20:39.Spring began at this year. I am sure you have been thinking about
:20:39. > :20:49.this. Where do you think it has taken at your home and country?
:20:49. > :20:53.
:20:53. > :20:59.was the start of the revolution. For independence to be free, and to
:20:59. > :21:08.have worked because it was difficult to find work, I think it
:21:08. > :21:12.is... And recreating in Paris a committee about Tunisia, I think
:21:12. > :21:20.this is important. When you say to be free, it raises a question about
:21:20. > :21:29.what kind of freedom it will be. The dominant political party is an
:21:29. > :21:36.Islamist party. They said they would do the democratic thing at.
:21:36. > :21:41.And respect women's rights. Do you believe them? I hope so. What do
:21:41. > :21:47.you think? I hope so otherwise there will be another revolution.
:21:47. > :21:54.He signed up to the UN to be a campaigner for women's rights?
:21:54. > :21:57.I am wondering how far you are prepared to push it? I have been a
:21:57. > :22:02.part of UNESCO for 15 years and I'm fighting for independence for women.
:22:02. > :22:08.Do you have much leverage? When you go to these countries, do these
:22:08. > :22:16.people listen to you? Yes, they love me. Morocco, Algeria, all the
:22:16. > :22:24.people from Africa last May because I was born there. -- at the -- the
:22:24. > :22:34.people from Africa love me. lists of movies you have made his
:22:34. > :22:34.
:22:34. > :22:40.incredible. How many is it now? Around 120. 120! Are there any
:22:40. > :22:50.places or directors you have not worked with that she would like to?
:22:50. > :22:51.
:22:51. > :23:01.I believe in destiny. It is written. I have been very lucky because the
:23:01. > :23:08.
:23:08. > :23:15.last film, which shut in a place that was one -- very ancient. -- we
:23:15. > :23:25.were shooting in a place that was ancient. The energy is still there?
:23:25. > :23:29.