:00:11. > :00:15.will now have to be separated from The European Union is suffering a
:00:15. > :00:20.crisis of confidence in its currency, its economic prospects
:00:20. > :00:25.and its leaders. So could this be a moment of opportunity for the
:00:25. > :00:30.populist politics of the far right? Well, I have come to the European
:00:30. > :00:33.Parliament in Strasbourg to meet MarineLePenn, the leader of
:00:33. > :00:37.France's National Front. She is running for the French presidency
:00:38. > :00:47.and there is no doubt that French voters are unhappy with statas quo.
:00:48. > :01:02.
:01:02. > :01:07.Are they ready for the LaPenn brand of Nationalism? Well come to
:01:07. > :01:10.HARDtalk. Merci. Politics, they say, is a battle between hope and fear.
:01:10. > :01:16.Right now there is a very difficult situation across Europe. In France,
:01:17. > :01:26.the economy is very bad. People are unhappy. Do you offer the French
:01:27. > :01:27.
:01:27. > :02:08.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds
:02:08. > :02:14.I asked the question because I looked at your rhetoric and this is
:02:14. > :02:18.something that you said not so long ago. You said, "I call on all of
:02:18. > :02:25.the sovereignists and patriotic forces to support me against the
:02:25. > :02:28.euro federalism being defended by Sarkozy and socialist leader
:02:28. > :02:38.FrancoisAllond. You actually make it sound like France is at war in
:02:38. > :03:16.
:03:16. > :03:20.I But why do you think consistently the French public rejects your
:03:20. > :03:24.notion that France has to withdraw from the euro, withdraw from the
:03:24. > :03:27.European Union and place itself in some sort of a bunker, building
:03:27. > :03:37.high walls around itself? The French people have looked at that
:03:37. > :03:37.
:03:37. > :04:32.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds
:04:32. > :04:37.option and they have rejected it Your language is so dramatic - and
:04:37. > :04:42.here is the final thing you said on the current political debate - you
:04:42. > :04:46.said that Sarkozy was a "collaborate tor with the financial
:04:46. > :04:51.markets and the big bankers". Sarkozy, you said, does not like
:04:51. > :04:55.France. I have to tell you, this sort of language, the anger you are
:04:55. > :05:05.expressing reminds me very much of the sort of language we heard in
:05:05. > :05:05.
:05:05. > :05:45.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds
:05:45. > :05:50.If we are going to talk about economic detail, let's get into it.
:05:50. > :05:53.If you want to be taken seriously as a presidential candidate next
:05:53. > :05:57.spring, you have to do more than just use your powerful language
:05:57. > :05:59.against Sarkozy and the others. You are going to have to convince the
:05:59. > :06:07.French people that your economic plan makes sense. So let's just
:06:08. > :06:12.have a look at it. You say you want to withdraw from the euro. Of
:06:12. > :06:16.course I've read it. It is very striking. You say you want to
:06:16. > :06:20.withdraw from the euro as soon as possible. You say you want to
:06:20. > :06:23.impose price controls to deal with what might be hyper inflation. You
:06:23. > :06:26.say that you want the State to intervene on a massive scale to run
:06:26. > :06:31.all of the important public services. You are including
:06:31. > :06:34.transportation, energy, as well of course as health care, education. A
:06:34. > :06:44.massive extension of nationalisation. This doesn't make
:06:44. > :06:44.
:06:44. > :07:30.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds
:07:30. > :07:35.Before we go any further, do you accept if you withdraw from the
:07:35. > :07:40.euro, France will suddenly face a massive debt problem because your
:07:40. > :07:44.debts will still be valued in euros, your own Frank if you return to the
:07:45. > :07:50.Frank will be devalueed massively, there will be hyper inflation,
:07:50. > :08:00.France to be -- No. -- hang on. That is your plan of the economic
:08:00. > :08:00.
:08:00. > :09:00.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds
:09:00. > :09:03.observatory in Paris will face an Well, if I may say so - it all
:09:03. > :09:09.sounds wonderful. You have a smile on your face and you sound so
:09:09. > :09:14.confidence about it, but are you not not aware that the French
:09:14. > :09:17.Government is saddled with debt and international ratings agencies have
:09:17. > :09:21.a negative watch on France and may well be downgrading it from Triple
:09:21. > :09:24.A status any time now. The this is the reality already and your
:09:24. > :09:34.programme according to all of the economists I have read would make
:09:34. > :09:48.
:09:48. > :09:52.A quick question. Just a very brief one. Did you right now feel that
:09:52. > :09:55.the French economy is strong? Many people look at it and they see an
:09:55. > :10:00.economy that, frankly compared with Germany, is extraordinarily weak.
:10:00. > :10:10.You make it sound as if France was to go it alone and leave the euro
:10:10. > :10:10.
:10:10. > :11:07.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds
:11:07. > :11:10.everything would be fine. It is not A fineal thought on economics. You
:11:10. > :11:15.talk a lot about protectionism, you talk about protecting France from
:11:15. > :11:20.unfair competition from China, from India and elsewhere. I mean, all of
:11:20. > :11:25.the growth right now in the world economy is coming from China, India,
:11:25. > :11:28.Brazil, a host of other developing and emerging ecomonies - if you put
:11:29. > :11:33.up all of these protective walls around France, how is France going
:11:33. > :11:43.to expand its exports, build a Newcombe pettive economy and
:11:43. > :11:43.
:11:43. > :12:40.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds
:12:40. > :12:45.actually partake of growth in the We've talked a lot about economics.
:12:45. > :12:48.Let's move on to a different aspect of your political ambition. You
:12:48. > :12:54.want to win the French presidential election next spring. People in
:12:54. > :12:59.France will perhaps look at you and they will try to establish in their
:12:59. > :13:04.own minds whether you are politically on the same wavelength
:13:04. > :13:10.travelling in just the same direction as your father, who of
:13:10. > :13:13.course led the French Nationale for three decades. What would you say
:13:13. > :13:23.to that? Are you taking the party in a new direction or the same
:13:23. > :13:52.
:13:52. > :14:02.Forgive me for interrupting, but would you now be prepared to say
:14:02. > :14:39.
:14:39. > :14:44.that your father made some serious You've talked about the demonision
:14:44. > :14:47.of the front national of your party, you know as well as I do that under
:14:47. > :14:50.your father's leadership the party was perceived by many in France to
:14:50. > :14:56.be racist and anti-Semitic and time and again your father got no
:14:56. > :15:00.trouble for making comments which appear to French people to be both
:15:00. > :15:10.racist and anti-Semitic. Are you prepared to disown the sorts of
:15:10. > :15:49.
:15:49. > :15:52.But you, yourself, said in the summer, you said, "I have damage to
:15:52. > :15:55.repair between the Front Nationale and the French people", so if you
:15:55. > :15:59.are not prepared to actually say that some of the things that your
:15:59. > :16:09.father believed in and said were wrong, how are you going to repair
:16:09. > :16:09.
:16:09. > :17:15.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds
:17:15. > :17:18.And I know that when in the French media you have been described as an
:17:18. > :17:22.extremism, you have been very angry. You refuse to accept that you are
:17:22. > :17:26.of the far-right. You just say you are of the right. But how does this
:17:26. > :17:32.fit with some things that you yourself have said and let's move
:17:32. > :17:35.on to the immigration issue. Just a year ago you I think in a French
:17:35. > :17:40.television appearance, you talked to Muslims praying on the streets
:17:40. > :17:45.of French cities and you said, "It is an occupation. There are no
:17:45. > :17:55.tanks, no soldiers, but what they do is an occupation of French
:17:55. > :18:00.
:18:00. > :18:10.territory." That is just plain An occupation, was that the right
:18:10. > :18:10.
:18:10. > :19:02.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds
:19:02. > :19:06.You say you are backed by a lot of people. You are also opposed by a
:19:06. > :19:08.lot of people and your language makes them very angry. The
:19:08. > :19:12.President of the council representing associations of black
:19:13. > :19:22.people in France says the problem with you is that you are just
:19:23. > :19:40.
:19:41. > :19:45.modernising and repackaging a form Under your father's leadership, the
:19:45. > :19:55.National Front believed in the repatriation of immigrants, sending
:19:55. > :20:24.
:20:24. > :20:28.them back home. Is that something Do you think that the French people
:20:28. > :20:34.are as interested in discussing immigration in the way that you do
:20:34. > :20:37.as perhaps they were even in the election of 2002, 10 years ago when
:20:37. > :20:43.your father actually got to the second round of the presidential
:20:43. > :20:49.election? I just look at figures that show right now 45% of French
:20:49. > :20:52.people say that unemployment is their No. 1 concern. Only 10% said
:20:52. > :21:02.that immigration was their primary concern. It seems to me that the
:21:02. > :21:02.
:21:02. > :21:47.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds
:21:47. > :21:51.French public have moved on and But you know much better than me, I
:21:51. > :21:55.am sure, that a whole raft of academic studies in recent times
:21:55. > :22:00.have shown that in many, many ways immigration far from costing France
:22:00. > :22:05.the billions and billions of euros that you claim is actually saving
:22:05. > :22:15.France money because, because as academics have pointed out, it is
:22:15. > :22:47.
:22:47. > :22:50.reducing the tax burden on an Before we end, I just want to think
:22:50. > :22:59.about the forthcoming presidential race. Who is a bigger threat to
:22:59. > :23:09.your ambitions, do you think? Nicolas Sarkozy or Francois
:23:09. > :23:23.
:23:23. > :23:26.Well, we will and I guess you have been looking at the opinion polls
:23:26. > :23:30.just as closely as I have and what I notice is you had a spike where
:23:30. > :23:35.you reached almost 20% in the polls, but you have gone down again and it
:23:35. > :23:38.seems to me that your numbers have gone down to about 13% because of
:23:38. > :23:42.the Eurozone crisis. People have been looking very carefully at your
:23:42. > :23:52.economic programme and they just don't fine it credible. That is
:23:52. > :24:09.