:00:07. > :00:17.streamline the system. Up those are the headlines. Now it is time for
:00:17. > :00:24.
:00:24. > :00:28.HARDtalk review of the year. Welcome to a special year Indian
:00:28. > :00:36.edition of heart Oct. It is a chance to look back at some of the
:00:36. > :00:46.most memorable encounters. A A u. - - a year-in doing addition of
:00:46. > :00:51.HARDtalk. London is the financial centre of Europe. The question is,
:00:51. > :00:59.is the European economy on the brink of collapse? What does that
:00:59. > :01:09.mean for the world economy. Much of the focus is on grace. Much of --
:01:09. > :01:12.
:01:12. > :01:18.if Greece to faults, Europe will follow it. -- if Greece to faults.
:01:18. > :01:22.Even in the worst possible crisis for the euro in history, it is an
:01:22. > :01:28.extremely strong currency that has lost 10 cents in the past year and
:01:28. > :01:37.then regained them. A look at a Euro that has almost not suffered
:01:37. > :01:43.at all. Greece, in spite of those numbers, has not collapsed.
:01:43. > :01:48.Everybody is predicting it will. you look at the bond markets and
:01:48. > :01:53.the ratings agencies, the message is that sooner or later, however
:01:53. > :02:00.many an emergency measures you leaders used, Greece will of what
:02:00. > :02:10.we have to default stop Mellor I do not think so. The message of the EU
:02:10. > :02:15.is very clear. They will not allow such an account in the Greek crisis.
:02:15. > :02:21.Jack Straw, who was British Foreign Secretary for years, he said just
:02:21. > :02:27.the other day that the euro in its current form is going to collapse
:02:27. > :02:32.and it is better if this happens quickly rather than at the slow
:02:32. > :02:42.death stop iller it has been announced a long time ago by many
:02:42. > :02:43.
:02:43. > :02:47.people. The euro is still there. Deeply unhealthy. I do not think so.
:02:47. > :02:56.The euro has some difficult is to Facebook we are facing them. There
:02:56. > :03:01.is no threat of collapse. So, as a significant default. Is that
:03:01. > :03:06.possible with grease inside the eurozone? Yes, you can have a
:03:06. > :03:11.controlled the fault and remain within the eurozone. That is what
:03:11. > :03:17.is necessary. Postponing the day of reckoning can make it much worse.
:03:17. > :03:26.It is becoming a little alarming, the size of package the eurozone is
:03:26. > :03:31.talking about. Mr Papadopoulos, do you ever think that borrowing more
:03:31. > :03:37.money from the Central Bank simply to allow Greece to service their
:03:37. > :03:42.debts to other European banks is doing us no favours, harming the
:03:42. > :03:46.interests of our own people and simply looking after the interest
:03:46. > :03:54.of the be European banks? Would it not be better for your own people
:03:54. > :03:58.to default? Of course not. Because if you declare a default then it is
:03:58. > :04:04.like committing suicide. Your banks will be destroyed. Your economy
:04:04. > :04:11.will be cut off from the rest of the world. We are end into integral
:04:11. > :04:18.part of the European Union. Greece will leave the eurozone. Whoever is
:04:18. > :04:22.left in the eurozone will be in a tighter fiscal and regulatory union
:04:22. > :04:31.than now. When they start looking at that it will be very hard to
:04:31. > :04:36.keep Greece. And a whole host of countries far removed from London
:04:37. > :04:42.including China, India and Brazil were growing at an impressive rate
:04:42. > :04:51.in 2011. But here in western Europe that is a sense that the economic
:04:51. > :04:58.party is over and the hangover is likely to linger for use. What we
:04:59. > :05:07.see across the OECD up budget deficits running on average at 7.5%
:05:07. > :05:11.of GDP. -- linger for years. Amongst the industrialised nations
:05:11. > :05:17.there has been a fundamental failure of political leadership.
:05:17. > :05:23.Would you agree? The problem of bringing down those deficits today
:05:23. > :05:32.is not and the very important, but it will come our allies for a
:05:32. > :05:39.generation. --, out lives for a generation. First we must stop the
:05:39. > :05:45.rot. The debt will rise as a percentage of GDP for several years.
:05:45. > :05:50.By the time we stopped we will not be able to prove. We will need
:05:50. > :05:54.another effort to get it down to a more manageable level. By that time,
:05:55. > :06:02.an ageing will come into these countries and that will report
:06:02. > :06:07.require another few points of GDP. -- that will require. This will
:06:07. > :06:12.take 15 or 20 years stop what you are one of the most respected fund
:06:12. > :06:19.managers in the US. Do you feel under more pressure then you have
:06:19. > :06:24.ever felt before? I feel more worried and scared. Not just as a
:06:24. > :06:29.fund manager, but as a father. Every day when I kiss my daughter
:06:29. > :06:35.goodbye, I wonder what world she will inherit, given the head wins
:06:35. > :06:45.that we are facing at the level of countries, regions and the global
:06:45. > :06:47.
:06:47. > :06:51.economy. I am worrying as a fund manager but more as a parent.
:06:51. > :06:57.has been plenty of economic uncertainty this year, but there
:06:57. > :07:02.has also been anger directed at corporations. I have come to the
:07:02. > :07:08.occupied protest outside St Paul's Cathedral in London, one of many
:07:09. > :07:13.across the western world. People here have been inspired by the Arab
:07:13. > :07:20.Spring, the wave of popular uprisings which saw authoritarian
:07:20. > :07:26.rulers topple in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya. The question there, of
:07:26. > :07:36.course, is what next? In October I went to Egypt to look at their
:07:36. > :07:40.revolution are closed. -- up close. October 9th was a turning point in
:07:40. > :07:44.the course of the Egyptian revolution. Thousands of
:07:44. > :07:49.demonstrators, mostly Christians, gathered outside the state
:07:49. > :07:55.television building, protesting about a spate of sectarian attacks.
:07:55. > :08:01.The response was brutal. Protesters were hit by sniper fire and
:08:02. > :08:11.armoured vehicles. 27 demonstrators were killed. The forces of
:08:11. > :08:16.repression have made them mark. Once again the internet is staking
:08:16. > :08:22.out revolutionary passion. This web designer is blocking and organising.
:08:22. > :08:28.He is part of a network committed to confronting what he sees as a
:08:28. > :08:34.military counter revolution. We all talk about the Egyptian revolution.
:08:34. > :08:42.As the revolution happened or is it yet to happen in? The revolution is
:08:42. > :08:48.just getting started. Why are you so cautious? When we took the
:08:48. > :08:58.streets in January, it was not just because of Hosni Mubarak. We wanted
:08:58. > :09:05.the downfall of the regime. They'd just replaced the figurehead. That
:09:05. > :09:09.is not what we want. I drove into central Cairo to meet the media
:09:09. > :09:19.revolutionaries determined to challenge the Red Lions imposed by
:09:19. > :09:20.
:09:20. > :09:25.the military. -- red lines. This is a new network named after the day
:09:25. > :09:30.the revolution started. All the staff are young people plucked from
:09:30. > :09:37.the demonstrations. They are trying to win it editions offer a diet of
:09:37. > :09:41.state propaganda. But when they broadcast live pictures of the 9th
:09:41. > :09:51.October killings, armed troops raided the studio. Protesters
:09:51. > :09:52.
:09:52. > :09:58.screamed and became an internet sensation. This is one of the best
:09:58. > :10:02.known television journalists. She quit state TV in protest against
:10:02. > :10:09.censorship when the revolution began. Then new managers persuaded
:10:09. > :10:14.her to return, promising a return took -- in into two or interference.
:10:14. > :10:20.Quotable or not? How much genuine freedom as the Egyptian media have
:10:20. > :10:26.today? Very little. There has been a progression in freedom since the
:10:26. > :10:34.revolution. We thought things would be different. -- a regression in
:10:34. > :10:37.freedom. At the beginning there was a small ray of light because new
:10:37. > :10:42.channels and publications were being launched and I saw it
:10:42. > :10:49.becoming a more vibrant media with greater diversity. But all our
:10:49. > :10:53.hopes were -. As a minister in the Government, you are responsible
:10:53. > :11:03.ultimately to the Supreme Council of the armed forces. Are you
:11:03. > :11:14.
:11:14. > :11:20.convinced of their commitment to democracy and freedom? TRANSLATION:
:11:20. > :11:22.A functioning democracy is about more than just voting. It is about
:11:22. > :11:28.all the institutions of a civil all the institutions of a civil
:11:28. > :11:33.society. What we see right now in Egypt a military courts and
:11:33. > :11:43.civilian protesters, thousands of them, being put before military
:11:43. > :12:00.
:12:00. > :12:06.courts and sent to military prisons. Do that is not right. There are
:12:06. > :12:10.still people going to the military court. Loggers have been sentenced
:12:10. > :12:20.inside a military court to use in prison because of things they have
:12:20. > :12:28.
:12:28. > :12:31.written. It is still happening in this country. -- to use. -- years.
:12:32. > :12:35.The Ministry of Information was a symbol of the old regime where
:12:35. > :12:42.censorship took place and the press was manipulated. If you wanted to
:12:42. > :12:46.break from the past, why do you continue to sit in your chair as
:12:46. > :12:56.minister of information? Would it not have been better to abandon
:12:56. > :13:10.
:13:10. > :13:14.people here want radical change, not just in politics, but in the
:13:14. > :13:21.economy as well. Workers are pushing for better pay and
:13:21. > :13:26.conditions. The unemployed are demanding work. Everybody wants to
:13:26. > :13:31.see an end to the period of corruption. The revelation faces a
:13:31. > :13:40.fundamental challenge. Can it deliver a new economic deal for
:13:40. > :13:45.Egypt? In Egypt, growth has stalled, unemployment is rising. The
:13:45. > :13:53.economic angered that fuelled the Arab Spring has not gone away. With
:13:53. > :13:58.its main streets hugging the Mediterranean Shaw, Alexandria can
:13:58. > :14:04.still avoid memories of a golden age of prosperity. -- Mediterranean
:14:04. > :14:14.Shaw. But get away from the sea into the poorer neighbourhoods
:14:14. > :14:19.engine into a very different world. -- shore. This is one of the
:14:19. > :14:25.poorest parts of the city. I have been invited by local people to see
:14:25. > :14:31.how ordinary people have to leave in Alexandria. We will go into the
:14:32. > :14:36.depths of the neighbourhood. It is very narrow. What we have our
:14:36. > :14:42.families living in desperate conditions. Here there is a family
:14:42. > :14:48.of six living in one room. If we go into the neighbourhood a bit
:14:48. > :14:55.further we find a toilet. This toy that has to serve the entire
:14:55. > :15:03.building. It is barely a building. There are dozens of people relied
:15:03. > :15:13.on this one tour of it. -- Reliant. Muhammad has lived here all his
:15:13. > :15:14.
:15:14. > :15:24.life. He is out of work and near the out of hope. -- newly. --
:15:24. > :15:39.
:15:39. > :15:44.The Mubarak again St ranch Egypt as a family business. Swiss banks have
:15:44. > :15:50.frozen hundreds of millions of dollars in the Mubarak accounts.
:15:50. > :15:56.They embraced capitalism, but on their terms. And now the cracks are
:15:56. > :16:03.beginning to show. There is wealthy in Egypt, but it has not spread.
:16:03. > :16:09.The old economic order looks increasingly unsustainable. And now,
:16:09. > :16:15.when one of the country's Regis meant, whose family founded a
:16:15. > :16:20.conglomerate, looks out of his 26th floor apartment, he sees the city
:16:20. > :16:28.again convulsed by a political violence and the future has routed
:16:28. > :16:37.in uncertainty. Entrepreneurial spirit and new investment. How will
:16:37. > :16:42.that be delivered when this economy is in limbo. There is no leadership,
:16:42. > :16:47.no strategy and that nobody knows we the economy is going. It is not
:16:47. > :16:51.going to happen and this economy will go bust in a few months. Who
:16:51. > :16:56.it will invest when you do not have a democratically elected
:16:56. > :17:06.government? Do you think of survival is at stake it? Do you
:17:06. > :17:08.
:17:08. > :17:18.think there is a real possibility that it could go under? Yes. The
:17:18. > :17:23.$30 billion which were promised, we have seen zilch. In my personal
:17:23. > :17:29.opinion, they do not want this revolution to succeed. If it does
:17:29. > :17:34.succeed, it is like a disease. That is my opinion. This is a great
:17:34. > :17:40.country. Even if it goes bust, it will rise again. I am not upset
:17:40. > :17:46.with the government or the army. I am upset with my people. If we want
:17:46. > :17:52.to change this country, the people have to change. You cannot work for
:17:52. > :18:00.three or four hours a day and expect things to get better.
:18:00. > :18:04.long will it take to change the people? Nothing more graphically
:18:04. > :18:08.illustrated the revolutionary spirit in the Arab world than the
:18:08. > :18:18.demise of Colonel Gaddafi. Just days after he was shot dead, I went
:18:18. > :18:18.
:18:18. > :18:25.to Jordan to meet at Mahmoud Jibril, Libya's interim prime minister. You
:18:25. > :18:31.seem to be walking away from this. You said, days ago that when
:18:31. > :18:36.liberation is officially announced, which is about to happen as we
:18:36. > :18:46.speak and will signal the end of the conflict, you said, I am
:18:46. > :18:49.
:18:49. > :18:58.walking away. I quit. Why? I think it I will try to develop a civil
:18:58. > :19:08.society organisation in Libya. I still believe Libya can be a model
:19:08. > :19:09.
:19:09. > :19:14.for the Arab Spring if we let those who initiated this revolution
:19:14. > :19:19.develop a political platform which reflects their own dreams, not ours.
:19:19. > :19:24.And organise themselves. Then we have a new brand of leadership.
:19:24. > :19:29.amid all the talk of new leaders, a new Middle East, 2011 saw the
:19:29. > :19:38.demise of another Thiago who had wilted significant influence in the
:19:38. > :19:43.region over the past 15 years. Osama Bin Laden. He was killed by
:19:43. > :19:49.US special forces in Pakistan, we had been hiding for years. Had
:19:49. > :19:59.Pakistan known of his location? Was Islamabad air that a genuine
:19:59. > :20:01.
:20:01. > :20:08.partner? We now know that from 2005 when you were in power Osama Bin
:20:08. > :20:14.Laden was living within earshot are of Pakistan's most prestigious
:20:14. > :20:18.military camp in Abbottabad. We know that she failed. What about
:20:18. > :20:24.the people that we caught from number three downwards, dozens of
:20:24. > :20:30.them. Why do you always see the glass half-empty? What about a half
:20:30. > :20:36.full part? Every individual from number three downwards was caught
:20:36. > :20:44.by Pakistan. What do you think of that positive? To Grote Robert
:20:44. > :20:48.Gates, the former Defence Secretary, you played both sides. Is signed up
:20:48. > :20:52.to the US war on terror bad at the same time you did not give up your
:20:52. > :20:59.ties to Islamist movements including the Taliban. That is
:21:00. > :21:09.baseless. I have always maintained excellent relations with President
:21:09. > :21:16.Bush and Colin Powell. It is complicated in itself. They are the
:21:16. > :21:22.people who ordered the assistant Secretary of State did Armitage to
:21:22. > :21:27.tell you that if he did not join in after 9/11 that Pakistan would be
:21:27. > :21:33.bombed back to the Stone Age. You started it on the basis of a threat.
:21:33. > :21:40.You must have resented that for the rest of your time in office. After
:21:40. > :21:44.that, when I joined the Coalition, how did events take place in the
:21:44. > :21:50.seven years beyond is the question. That is where I think we were
:21:50. > :21:54.delivering and we have taken... And that is where my relationship with
:21:54. > :21:58.President Bush and Colin Powell developed. This has been the year
:21:58. > :22:03.that has challenged assumptions. The Western economy has looked
:22:03. > :22:09.alarmingly vulnerable. The Middle East is in a state of unprecedented
:22:09. > :22:15.flux. Beautiful art can inspire us, captivate us, even in the toughest
:22:15. > :22:20.of times. And this here the HARDtalk test who best embodied the
:22:20. > :22:30.inspirational power of art was Carlos Acosta, the Cuban Ballet
:22:30. > :22:36.
:22:36. > :22:44.dancer long regarded as one of the world's greatest. Sometimes you
:22:44. > :22:50.have said things like: The pain, my hips, every time I do the splits it
:22:50. > :22:55.hurts. And you ask yourself, is it worth it? The art is beautiful and
:22:55. > :23:05.someone has to do it, but it does not have to be used. Well, you know,
:23:05. > :23:06.
:23:06. > :23:14.I get there. I still think I have what it takes. It is difficult
:23:14. > :23:20.sometimes. Difficult to know when it is the right time. I am not 40
:23:20. > :23:29.yet. On I think I still represent the quality that people like for my
:23:29. > :23:37.dancing. It is not very far away now. You are saying that with a
:23:37. > :23:44.smile, as they you are not frightened of that prospect. I am.
:23:44. > :23:51.You know when you have this relationship and he spent 30 years
:23:51. > :23:59.Marite but for some reason you don't feel that you can be together
:23:59. > :24:02.any longer. And then for some reason you still have the memories:
:24:02. > :24:09.This is the woman you love who gave you all these memories but you
:24:09. > :24:15.can't be to get any more. That is me and ballet. It is very difficult
:24:15. > :24:22.for me to accept that truth. HARDtalk well, of course, keep the