:00:07. > :00:17.veteran of the rough war. -- the Iraq War.
:00:17. > :00:23.
:00:23. > :00:28.Time for HARDtalk. Welcome to a special edition of the
:00:28. > :00:35.programme from Copenhagen. I am in the kitchen of what food critics
:00:35. > :00:41.regard as the finest restaurant in the world, called Noma. My guest
:00:42. > :00:48.today is Rene Redzepi, the chef at Noma. He is admired around the
:00:48. > :00:58.world for his passion for local and foraged food. He is a kitchen
:00:58. > :01:04.
:01:05. > :01:12.revolutionary but can he really changed the way we eat? -- change.
:01:12. > :01:16.Rene Redzepi, welcome to HARDtalk. You are one of the world's most
:01:16. > :01:21.famous restaurant to us but we have start have not in your restaurant
:01:21. > :01:28.but in the Nordic food Laboratory, which you founded and which sits
:01:28. > :01:33.next door to your restaurant. What goes on here? We said his art as a
:01:33. > :01:39.non-profit organisation to generate knowledge about food and to
:01:39. > :01:44.generate new flavours. New pillars fall cuisine that will help
:01:44. > :01:51.ourselves and future generation create more delicious food. This is
:01:51. > :01:55.set up for deliciousness. But you are not a scientist. And I can say
:01:55. > :02:02.things like test-tubes and flasks and complicated equipment. This is
:02:02. > :02:07.a laboratory and that feels unnatural for a chef. Yes, well, I
:02:07. > :02:13.thought that for many years, that I am an artisan, a craftsman. But
:02:13. > :02:18.then you find out that everything is about science, basically. This
:02:19. > :02:23.is not a science laboratory. It is controlled and run by chefs. We are
:02:23. > :02:28.here to create better kinds of deliciousness and to do that, we
:02:28. > :02:33.have got to understand the signs of it. This is between a restaurant
:02:33. > :02:38.and a science laboratory dedicated to deliciousness. When you talk
:02:38. > :02:43.about the signs of deliciousness, what sort of experiments are you
:02:43. > :02:53.running? What are you looking for? One of the things that we have had
:02:53. > :02:57.great success with his permutations. Wigan have new and exciting
:02:57. > :03:02.flavours. One vein is this liquid it right here. I would challenge
:03:02. > :03:10.you to taste it. It is only six months old and there is some green
:03:10. > :03:17.mould on it. And in Japan... This is an extract of mould, is it?
:03:17. > :03:24.is a mould that has been inoculated with grains and overtime, it breaks
:03:24. > :03:29.down and create a solid and a liquid. This is the liquid. In
:03:29. > :03:36.Japan, when they do this with soy beans, it creates soy sauce. But
:03:36. > :03:44.this was done with dried, yellow peas. Let's see how you go. That is
:03:44. > :03:51.a very strong flavour. You mention soy sauce. Very savoury. So let it
:03:51. > :03:55.but sweet. It is delicious. A cynic would say, why not just go and
:03:55. > :04:02.purchase a bottle of Japanese-made soy sauce? You can do that but this
:04:02. > :04:09.is different. This is delicious and a new product, a new flavour.
:04:09. > :04:14.is a fascinating experiment over here. This is quite a bit like
:04:14. > :04:23.Willy one carlos' chocolate factory. Lots of stuff bubbling away. What
:04:23. > :04:28.is the aim of all of this? The aim is to improve -- these are
:04:28. > :04:35.different kinds of vinegar. In a typical home in Denmark - perhaps
:04:35. > :04:39.it is the shame as being the UK - you can find a white wine vinegar
:04:39. > :04:45.and a sherry vinegar and so on. Here, we are trying to find out
:04:45. > :04:49.what is possible with vegetable juices, pieces of wood. How we can
:04:49. > :04:56.find different flavours to increase the vocabulary of our language. At
:04:56. > :05:02.the moment, we are trying to create vinegar by extracting flavour out
:05:02. > :05:06.of June Underwood. And there is a lot of what flavour. Also with
:05:06. > :05:11.celery and beat us. This might have application in your restaurant
:05:11. > :05:17.across the road. That you might be able to serve a new range of
:05:17. > :05:22.vinegar? And a few drops of vinegar into a sauce can create a new
:05:22. > :05:31.flavour. But we are not doing this in the Nordic foo' tree just for us.
:05:31. > :05:35.We have a website dedicated to sharing the information. We intend
:05:35. > :05:40.this to the research centre for all chefs who do not have the time. We
:05:40. > :05:45.can give them finish and ready to go recipes for delicious new food
:05:45. > :05:49.items that they can use in their kitchens and even in people's homes.
:05:49. > :05:53.0 a fascinating insight into the more scientific end of your
:05:53. > :05:58.approach to food but I would like to go to the restaurant now and
:05:58. > :06:08.talk about how you have created what is regarded at the moment as
:06:08. > :06:20.
:06:20. > :06:25.the world's best restaurant. Let's go. Need the way. -- Lead. Now that
:06:25. > :06:31.we are inside the restaurant, I want to take you back and find out
:06:31. > :06:37.what sparks your passion for food. There was a very specific moment
:06:37. > :06:43.when I was 15 years old. I left to 9th agreed at school in dishonour.
:06:43. > :06:50.In Copenhagen? Yes and I followed my best friend, who had a lifelong
:06:50. > :06:56.dream of being a chef. I thought, I do not know what to do, they do not
:06:56. > :07:00.want me at school, what better than to be with your friend? So I
:07:00. > :07:07.enlisted in the school and on the second day, the teacher, who I
:07:07. > :07:13.hated, he asked us to go for a dish so that we would be judged on how
:07:14. > :07:19.it tasted and how it was arranged on the plate. And for me, that was
:07:19. > :07:24.the first adult moment that I had in my entire life. Prior to that, I
:07:24. > :07:30.was nervous about talking to girls and when I would play football next.
:07:30. > :07:35.And then I was asking myself, how do I win this competition? I have
:07:36. > :07:41.had to make something delicious. What is delicious to me? So white
:07:41. > :07:45.hat into my memories of food and what I enjoy. Those memories that
:07:45. > :07:51.you cherish above others. And I remembered one of those special
:07:51. > :07:59.moments in Macedonia, where I used to spend my childhood summer or so,
:07:59. > :08:03.my uncle would snort a chicken and the
:08:03. > :08:07.chopping off of the head. The chicken would run around and the
:08:07. > :08:13.children would run after it with the blood spurting out. And then my
:08:13. > :08:17.auntie would pluck it. It was put into a wood-fired oven with rice
:08:17. > :08:23.and the juice of driving down. And I remembered that mouthful as a
:08:23. > :08:29.piece of heaven as a child. So for the competition, have found a
:08:29. > :08:39.recipe with chicken. And I made a cashew nut sauce. I love it and us.
:08:39. > :08:40.
:08:40. > :08:44.Going up in Macedonia, roasting chestnuts is a very strong memory.
:08:44. > :08:52.You insist that a large part of the food that you could is taken from
:08:52. > :08:58.the wild, from the Forest, the sea shore. How can you ensure that you
:08:58. > :09:04.can find enough material around Copenhagen? We are fortunate to be
:09:05. > :09:10.in this region. 25 million people in this region of abundance.
:09:10. > :09:18.Literal abundance. And we have discovered it is a double world
:09:18. > :09:27.fight at our feet that we had forgotten about. To be so severe,
:09:27. > :09:33.what are you talking about? Grasses, fouled by...? Fruit as well. One of
:09:33. > :09:36.the most intriguing moments I have was a few years ago when we were
:09:36. > :09:42.walking along the shoreline searching for seaweed or whatever
:09:42. > :09:49.was there, just to see what was a double and what was not. And I
:09:49. > :09:57.could see this tide of grass and I had this intuition, and instinct,
:09:57. > :10:02.to see if it was a double or not. And I pick it up and its Latin my
:10:02. > :10:07.teeth and the juice poured into my mouth. And it hit me that it was
:10:07. > :10:12.the purest and most wonderful flavour of coriander but it look
:10:12. > :10:16.like a chive and it was going on a northern beach in Denmark. This
:10:16. > :10:24.flavour that supposedly only exists in other parts of the world, where
:10:24. > :10:28.it is very hot. How far can you save this -- take this? I know that
:10:28. > :10:32.you have experimented with serving insects in the restaurant. How far
:10:32. > :10:41.can you push not only yurt innovative cooking techniques, but
:10:41. > :10:48.how far can you push your diners? We can push to were ever the
:10:48. > :10:53.deliciousness is. You say that but, frankly, if many people are
:10:53. > :11:00.presented with a plate of live ants as you have done in the past, many
:11:00. > :11:09.would say, I am sorry, I am not eating that. For a little while.
:11:09. > :11:16.When we opened seven years ago, we might as well have served crocodile,
:11:16. > :11:22.some strange animal, the boy just the fact that we were serving a
:11:22. > :11:28.wild grass that tasted like coriander, people objecting to it.
:11:28. > :11:34.But these things do not take long. The thought of putting an and into
:11:34. > :11:39.your mouth and eating it is no different than eating a corner. It
:11:39. > :11:44.is just a cultural thing. The air are some obvious limitations with
:11:44. > :11:50.your approach to food. To begin with, you insist that everything
:11:50. > :11:55.has got to be very local. There are certain things that almost become
:11:55. > :12:00.ubiquitous in western cooking - garlic, olive oil, rice. These are
:12:00. > :12:04.not available to you because you cannot get them within 100
:12:05. > :12:12.kilometres of Copenhagen. So you cannot have access to many of those
:12:12. > :12:17.very common staples. No and there is good reason for that. First, we
:12:17. > :12:23.have to remember that usually, if you want the freshest and the best
:12:23. > :12:27.flavours, the closer they are to you, the better they will be. Brian
:12:27. > :12:32.Rice is different. The reason why are we do not put a rise in our
:12:33. > :12:37.food or olive oil is not because I do not love them. I think they are
:12:37. > :12:43.incredible and I eat them at home all the time. But we are in a part
:12:43. > :12:48.of the world where we have not explored the ingredient of base for
:12:48. > :12:53.so many years - for decades - and we have got to allow ourselves to
:12:53. > :12:58.see what is out there. And if we keep retreating to the obvious, we
:12:58. > :13:01.would never go the whole way through. Another issue is
:13:01. > :13:07.seasonality was told in Scandinavia in winter, there is not a lot of
:13:07. > :13:12.that will grow. And what is in the ground may be frozen or under a
:13:12. > :13:17.foot of snow. So you are saying to your diners, if they come to eat at
:13:17. > :13:23.your restaurant in January or February, there will be pretty slim
:13:23. > :13:27.pickings. Yes, they will have to enjoy root vegetables and onions.
:13:27. > :13:37.But the world is amazing in that sense. If the earth it sprouts and
:13:37. > :13:47.gives us richness in winter, the oceans changed. And that is a full
:13:47. > :13:47.
:13:47. > :13:53.season. Fish has a role, and it changes. One way that we are able
:13:53. > :13:58.to make sure backs we have these green, fragile flavours like we do
:13:58. > :14:05.in spring and summer is through preserving. We have a storage room,
:14:05. > :14:11.which is away from here, where we have more than 1,500 kilograms of a
:14:11. > :14:21.food, dozens of food items, in storage. Some have been sold it,
:14:21. > :14:21.
:14:21. > :14:25.Because the restaurant has become so well known, critics have voted
:14:25. > :14:31.it the best in the world for a few years in a row, there is now a huge
:14:31. > :14:35.waiting list. He have to book many months in advance. And you have to
:14:35. > :14:43.pay an awful lot of money, hundreds of dollars for an individual meal.
:14:43. > :14:46.How do people react when you serve them for example, Morse on a-plate?
:14:46. > :14:56.When they have just played -- paid hundreds of dollars and waited
:14:56. > :14:57.
:14:57. > :15:03.months? There are people who would say, I demand my usual luxury food
:15:03. > :15:08.items cooked in a Scandinavian way. There are those people. To that, we
:15:08. > :15:14.have nothing to say because we don't do that. We are about serving
:15:14. > :15:18.the perfect distillation of what is in season right now. If Morse is
:15:18. > :15:24.one of those things, and we can make a delicious, Moss will be on
:15:24. > :15:28.the menu. Luckily, lately, especially since being voted number
:15:28. > :15:34.one, people approach us different day. They are more open. They are
:15:35. > :15:40.here to see our world of foods and what we think his book. Does it
:15:40. > :15:48.bother you do you have become a place where the Super League's wish
:15:48. > :15:53.to come and be seen? You talk about your memories of the most local,
:15:53. > :16:00.authentic, practically peasant food experiences in Macedonia with your
:16:00. > :16:04.father, and here you are catering to the super-rich. Multi-
:16:05. > :16:12.millionaires and billionaires. Does that stick in your throat? It would
:16:12. > :16:16.if I only Kate Adie to them. pretty much do. The ordinary man in
:16:16. > :16:23.the street couldn't conceive of coming here. It is too expensive.
:16:23. > :16:28.would object to that. I hear this from my own friends, we can't
:16:28. > :16:33.afford it. When I ask them how much they spend in a week down at the
:16:33. > :16:40.pub or wherever, it is almost as absurd. But of course, there is no
:16:40. > :16:45.way around it. This is the up most extreme of dining. It takes a lot
:16:45. > :16:48.of hands and a lot of people. The ingredients are expensive. But this
:16:48. > :16:54.is something you said is a joint statement with some of the world's
:16:54. > :17:02.top chefs, there was a manifesto issued and these are the words that
:17:02. > :17:07.came out: "We dream of a future in which the chef is socially engaged,
:17:07. > :17:14.fully conscious of his or her contribution to a just and
:17:14. > :17:20.sustainable society." that is a little bit grandiose. It is, I
:17:20. > :17:29.agree. But you have to remember that we're there on the board a
:17:29. > :17:36.vague culinary centre. This is like the amazing food University. Where
:17:36. > :17:41.a lot of young people will invest. -- A-List. They asked us to write
:17:41. > :17:45.something for these students, these 18-year-old. Within the group of
:17:46. > :17:52.these nine people, there are a few who have done amazing things, not
:17:52. > :17:58.only for deliciousness, but also for the food culture. I think it is
:17:58. > :18:00.an important message. I don't see why that hurts. It may not hurt but
:18:00. > :18:07.it may be something that pushes you over the edge from being highly
:18:07. > :18:16.respected as a chef to becoming almost a laughing-stock, to be
:18:16. > :18:20.honest. Here is what a British food critics said. He said he felt this
:18:20. > :18:25.was a grand act of self- delusion. He said, we need to remember that
:18:25. > :18:33.these guys are not secular saints, they are simply good chefs cooking
:18:33. > :18:41.dinner for very rich people. Well... Yes. That is one of the things.
:18:41. > :18:46.Absolutely. But your message to him is, what? There is a message in
:18:47. > :18:55.what to do that we is ordinary consumers of food can take on board
:18:55. > :18:59.about the different ways of producing food? I think that if
:18:59. > :19:08.people don't think that what happens at the best restaurants
:19:08. > :19:15.don't trickle-down into other restaurants and normal people in
:19:15. > :19:20.the kitchen... Is there a trickle down? There is. I can give you a
:19:20. > :19:27.very concrete example. One of them is with a farmer. One of Balmain
:19:27. > :19:37.farmers. He had a culture of carrots and he started selling them
:19:37. > :19:39.
:19:39. > :19:45.to chefs. He became him -- aware of the importance of what he does. He
:19:45. > :19:52.nourishes the people. So he starts to experiment. He puts more variety
:19:52. > :19:57.into his soul. Now he operates 100% Poli quarter with 10 types of
:19:57. > :20:05.cabbages, many lettuces. You name it. He will have hundreds of
:20:05. > :20:12.ingredients. It started with the restaurants, with chefs. Today, he
:20:12. > :20:18.sells weekly sacks of vegetables for �10 for 10 kg a sack that
:20:18. > :20:28.hundreds of families receive every week. We have seen an extraordinary
:20:28. > :20:33.rise in recent years of celebrity chefs. Here you are in Denmark
:20:33. > :20:36.known around the world. There are other chefs in the UK and so on. Do
:20:36. > :20:44.you see a problem with this deification of the world's best
:20:45. > :20:52.chefs? I do not see it as a problem. Sometimes it can be a problem to
:20:52. > :20:57.the extent that youngsters who want to enter our trade get a bit
:20:57. > :21:01.unrealistic about what it is like to be a chef and forget that it is
:21:01. > :21:08.hour after after -- an hour of slicing and carrying heavy things
:21:08. > :21:13.and being in a very stressful environment. There are some people
:21:13. > :21:17.enlisting in culinary schools with a dream of perhaps being a famous
:21:17. > :21:23.person and not realising there is a lot of work behind it. Do you think
:21:23. > :21:29.it is realistic to expect people like yourself, top chefs, to have a
:21:30. > :21:34.role in public policy-making on how we and what we eat. The issues
:21:34. > :21:38.concerning food. Jamie Oliver for example has been involved in a
:21:38. > :21:45.campaign in the UK to change the quality of school meals. AU keen to
:21:45. > :21:52.play that sort of public role when it comes to food policy? Personally,
:21:52. > :21:59.know. I run a restaurant. I am keen on educating my staff and the chefs
:21:59. > :22:07.here and an creating a forum where the chefs of restaurants learning
:22:07. > :22:15.new things and inspire each other to want to learn new things and
:22:15. > :22:20.take part in what is current in the culture of food. But to work for
:22:20. > :22:26.change of politics and so on, that would be unrealistic for me to take
:22:26. > :22:31.part in that. I don't even want to. I'm surprised you don't want to get
:22:31. > :22:36.more involved. You live in Denmark which is one of the first countries
:22:36. > :22:41.in the world to impose a fat tax on food very high in saturated fats.
:22:41. > :22:46.Did you not feel you should take a view on the imposition of such a
:22:46. > :22:51.tax? I have a view of course. You should have a view on everything.
:22:51. > :22:56.If you don't have an opinion, if you're not a human being. But I
:22:56. > :23:01.would not understand how these operations work and in terms of
:23:01. > :23:09.politics. I am an artisan and I work with my hand. I talk to people
:23:09. > :23:11.and cook food. A final thought. I was very struck by the way you
:23:11. > :23:15.started by describing memories of eating with your father in
:23:15. > :23:19.Macedonia. I am intrigued to know what you're dead things when he
:23:19. > :23:26.sits in this restaurant and the serve him one of your amazing
:23:26. > :23:33.dishes, the snail wrapped in flowers of the Quayle said served
:23:33. > :23:42.with a fantastic source, the ice- cream with dill sauce... Bodies to
:23:42. > :23:48.your dad think? -- What does your dad think? He has been here but he
:23:49. > :23:55.grew up after the Second World War with a father in prison eating
:23:55. > :23:59.beans for most of his life, hearty stews of beans and other legumes.
:23:59. > :24:07.He does not connected to it. He does not relate to it at all. He
:24:07. > :24:12.can't sit still for four hours. He is really happy for me, because in
:24:12. > :24:16.his world, the way you measure success is by how well the support