:00:11. > :00:16.That's a summary of the headlines. The world's top athletes are
:00:16. > :00:23.different from the rest of us. They have a drive, a singular wheel that
:00:23. > :00:27.makes them winners, but it can also be their undoing. Like yesterday,
:00:27. > :00:31.Graeme Obree was a world champion cyclist in the 1990s, famous for
:00:31. > :00:38.his self-built bikes and union eke racing style. But while making his
:00:38. > :00:44.name on the track, he was battling severe depression which led to
:00:44. > :00:54.suicide bids and family break-up. What happens when elite sport takes
:00:54. > :01:15.
:01:15. > :01:20.Graeme Obree, welcome to HARDtalk. Great to be here. When I talk at
:01:20. > :01:24.top-level cycling, I see athletes that seem to be the ultimate
:01:24. > :01:30.individualists, is that what drew you to cycling? Yes, it did. I
:01:31. > :01:34.think sport is one of those things, with those activities where people
:01:34. > :01:38.take it up as a leisure activity and they're interested in doing it
:01:39. > :01:42.but when you get to the elite level, that's when people are more
:01:42. > :01:47.obsessive by nature and character. It does seem to me, you watch it on
:01:47. > :01:50.the television and it seems it's all about living with pain, pain
:01:50. > :01:54.that goes deep in to your soul because you are riding for hour
:01:54. > :02:01.upon hour in some of these events like the Tour de France. I know you
:02:01. > :02:05.didn't always do events as long as that, but you have to cope well
:02:05. > :02:10.inside yourself? I look at it as effort which is more positive than
:02:10. > :02:16.pain. But there is pain and commitment and lifestyle and also
:02:16. > :02:22.sacrifices as a lifestyle. So you've got to be driven. Your
:02:22. > :02:27.entire life is encompassed by this. What you don't do, the parties you
:02:27. > :02:33.don't go to, everything about it is obsessive. While there are cycling
:02:33. > :02:36.teams - in the end it is down to you as an individual. And I wonder
:02:36. > :02:42.whether loneliness is something that even as a youth, you were
:02:42. > :02:46.prepared to live with or may even sought out? Well, part of my
:02:46. > :02:49.ambition in cycling was always to be part of something. I was always
:02:49. > :02:55.striving to be part of something. To be part of a bigger team. Part
:02:55. > :03:00.of the British team. Part of a team. But ultimately, you train mostly
:03:00. > :03:06.alone and winning is a very lonely experience. Winning is actually,
:03:06. > :03:12.you're separating yourself from the non-winners. So that makes it very
:03:12. > :03:17.lonely. That psychologically is counterintuitive to being part of
:03:17. > :03:22.something. It is an issue, people don't want to separate themselves
:03:22. > :03:31.from the others. I know, and you've written about this at length, that
:03:31. > :03:37.as a child, you had a very difficult upbringing. You were a
:03:37. > :03:43.very unhappy boy. You turned to the bike as an escape from the
:03:43. > :03:50.bullying? It didn't really happen till I was 15. Up to that point, I
:03:50. > :03:54.was very insular. And with primary school, I went through a phase of
:03:54. > :03:59.kind oaf floating along. And enduring the day to day existence.
:03:59. > :04:04.And in my spare time I would hang about forests as a non-person.
:04:04. > :04:07.how did you get to a point where you realised cycling wasn't just a
:04:07. > :04:12.past time for you, that it was becoming your life? You were so
:04:12. > :04:16.good at it and so different from others cycling alongside you that
:04:16. > :04:22.you could think about making this your life? At the start, cycling
:04:22. > :04:26.was a great escape. You were in charge of your ship. The bike is
:04:26. > :04:31.your ship to travel through the storm. You could go four times
:04:31. > :04:37.faster than what you could jog. You could go where you wanted to go and
:04:38. > :04:41.the freedom along the countriesside. It was a freedom issue. --
:04:41. > :04:46.countryside. It was a freedom issue. I became better at it and was
:04:46. > :04:50.encouraged and much, much better at it. The whole thing grew legs in
:04:50. > :04:55.terms of being more obsessive with it. Obsessive is another word I
:04:55. > :04:59.will pick away at because even from early on in your career, you're
:04:59. > :05:04.winning local titles, men's Scottish titles and were clearly
:05:04. > :05:08.becoming one of the best in your peer group on a British level but
:05:08. > :05:12.never did things the way others did. Your obsession with working on your
:05:12. > :05:16.own bikes and building your own bikes, others weren't doing that.
:05:16. > :05:22.They were trying anyway they could to acquire a professional-level
:05:22. > :05:27.bike but you were building your own. Why were you doing that? One of my
:05:27. > :05:31.big distractions with youth was I liked craft and making things out
:05:31. > :05:36.of bits of wood and metal. So making things was part of my life.
:05:36. > :05:41.When I see bad design, I hate it. A can opener or whatever it is, I
:05:41. > :05:46.hate bad design. I have to improve it. What I saw was bad design in
:05:46. > :05:50.bikes in terms of how it could be but it wasn't. So I set about
:05:50. > :05:54.changing that. The first thing I did at a very early stage was cut
:05:54. > :06:00.half the spokes out of wheels because you don't need the other
:06:00. > :06:04.half and I filled the holes up. The team would say that you can't ride
:06:04. > :06:08.with that many spokes. But I saw that things, I always had an
:06:09. > :06:13.ability to see how things could be, but they're not. You were a
:06:13. > :06:16.maverick. Even the way in which people sit on the bicycle. As you
:06:16. > :06:21.became more and more successful, you clearly thought very hard about
:06:21. > :06:24.getting the best aerodynamic position on the bike and you
:06:25. > :06:29.decided to change the position of the saddle and redesigning handle
:06:29. > :06:33.bars, that you could do it differently? I don't think that, I
:06:33. > :06:38.think a lot of people could see how they could change things but they
:06:38. > :06:44.were inhibited by the threat of how other people perceive it. The
:06:44. > :06:52.unwritten rules of that you can't do that. But I was oblivious to
:06:53. > :06:57.these. I couldn't see why I couldn't do it. If you take the
:06:57. > :07:02.crouch position. People who aren't cyclists and don't know that by the
:07:02. > :07:06.early 1990s you were turning things upside down in speed cycling? Give
:07:06. > :07:11.us an illustration of how you changed the position on the bike?
:07:11. > :07:21.went through a thought process of how could I go quicker? I was in to
:07:21. > :07:22.
:07:22. > :07:27.physics and science at that time. You can increase the engine size.
:07:27. > :07:33.The engine being your body? Yes. And another way to do that is cut
:07:33. > :07:39.down the resistance. So I thought, "Hold on, if you can do this with
:07:39. > :07:45.your arms, I was in that position." Like a spear? Yes. But on a bike,
:07:45. > :07:48.the first time I rode it, somebody said, "Look at that poor bloke." I
:07:48. > :07:54.was oblivious to the look that other people perhaps wouldn't have
:07:54. > :07:59.done that automatically. I was oblivious to that. I wanted to do
:07:59. > :08:04.it. It was purely functionality. we go through the '90s and we have
:08:04. > :08:09.to talk about winning the individual pursuit world title and
:08:09. > :08:14.the one hour against the clock cycling where you broke the world
:08:14. > :08:18.record. By the time in 1994, 1995, you were running in to problems
:08:18. > :08:21.with the authorities buzz they didn't like your innovation but the
:08:21. > :08:28.ultimate innovation was with the handle bars and becoming stretched
:08:28. > :08:34.out in a way cycling hadants seen before? Yes, it was. In the '90s, I
:08:34. > :08:38.realise in retrospect now I was for years and years used that crouch
:08:38. > :08:44.position. And I was winning races at Scottish and British level. I
:08:44. > :08:50.didn't think of world level. At one point I thought, "You could be
:08:50. > :08:57.doing berts than this." And then the innovations. But the riding
:08:57. > :09:04.position you came about, I won the records like that, which has always
:09:04. > :09:10.been the ultimate single time trial event in the world. 52 kilometres
:09:11. > :09:15.in one hour. And it's thequivalent of the mile record of running.
:09:15. > :09:20.slipped in a phrase. You talked about the washing machine and the
:09:20. > :09:27.way in which you used parts, parts from your own washing machine in
:09:27. > :09:33.your small house in Ayrshire to equip this absolute elite bicycle.
:09:33. > :09:37.What was the wasing machine part doing on your bike? -- washing
:09:37. > :09:43.machine part doing on your bike? There was a film which portrayed
:09:43. > :09:47.this as a washing machine from the kitchen. But this is from the front
:09:47. > :09:51.door. It had to be well manufactured. Rather than machine
:09:51. > :09:57.it, I could take it out of the machine. I set about hacking it
:09:57. > :10:04.apart. Butia don't know till you look. And the washing machine story
:10:04. > :10:11.captivates people. People go, "I remember that from 20 years ago."
:10:11. > :10:15.The washing machine sparks a memory. It seems to be a mix of extreme
:10:15. > :10:21.amateurishness, rooting around with a saw and a metal file, making
:10:21. > :10:24.something for yourself and turning that in to a triumphant world
:10:24. > :10:28.championship racing machine. It just seems, we know so much about
:10:28. > :10:32.professional sport these days, it just seems impossible? It does seem
:10:32. > :10:39.impossible. The truth is, only recent times looking back, because
:10:39. > :10:43.it's almost 20 years ago, and you think, "Oh, my goodness, it's
:10:43. > :10:47.amazing," that I did that. It sounds incredible but it's true.
:10:47. > :10:53.Here is maybe the strangest twist of all. As you're doing this and
:10:53. > :11:00.enjoying this extraordinary success, really self-made success in a way
:11:00. > :11:04.in which you as a sportsmen can be achieved -- sportsman can be
:11:04. > :11:09.achieved, you were deeply depressed at the time? It wasn't showing
:11:09. > :11:14.itself at the time. That was to come later. Because the film
:11:14. > :11:20.portrayed that. But I wasn't a happy person. But part of that and
:11:20. > :11:27.the story of me being successful was being driven by a - I suffered
:11:27. > :11:31.at that time from extreme lack of self-worth. A psychologist
:11:31. > :11:35.diagnosed me as chronic lack of self-worth. How can that be, how
:11:35. > :11:39.can you win the world championship in individual pursuit, crack the
:11:39. > :11:44.one-hour world record, be hailed not just in Scotland but around the
:11:44. > :11:48.world as frankly a bit of a cycling miracle, and say that you're
:11:48. > :11:53.suffering massive problem of self- esteem and efl respect? You might
:11:53. > :11:57.be -- self-respect? You might be surprised I've had this discussion
:11:57. > :12:03.with many people over the years. A lot of top people have told me the
:12:03. > :12:06.same thing that a lack of self- worth is a huge driving force in
:12:06. > :12:11.top athletes because there's that lack of self-worth that drives them
:12:11. > :12:15.to make up for self-worth by overawheefplt. Achievement that
:12:15. > :12:19.other people don't -- overachievement. Achievement that
:12:19. > :12:24.other people don't feel they can do it. That's where a lot of the
:12:24. > :12:27.hunger and drive comes from? Yes. Without wishing to delve too deep
:12:27. > :12:31.tine great personal misery, you tried to kill yourself several
:12:31. > :12:36.times? Yes. And one thing that's hard for me to get my mind around,
:12:36. > :12:39.you went to the 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta and you were one of the
:12:39. > :12:44.British favourites because you got the track record of winning world
:12:44. > :12:48.titles, and when you got to the Olympics, you weren't feeling well
:12:48. > :12:54.or right, and at one time it seems you actually considered killing
:12:54. > :12:59.yourself in the Olympic village? Yes. Because I felt like a complete
:12:59. > :13:04.failure. Mental illness at that level, depression, it tests your
:13:05. > :13:09.sense of reality. I thought I had no influence on the Games and I was
:13:09. > :13:13.a complete failure and washed up. And I'm a terrible person. A deep
:13:13. > :13:20.lack of self-worth. People are better off without me on the planet.
:13:20. > :13:24.But the truth was, that position we talked about earlier was banned, I
:13:24. > :13:30.reinvented myself with the superman position, with the arms straight
:13:30. > :13:35.out in front. And the same thinking process of getting the edge. And
:13:35. > :13:40.that was emulated by the Italians, the Germans and a few other people.
:13:40. > :13:45.And that was used to win six or seven gold medals. So I had a huge
:13:45. > :13:49.influence on those Games and I was ablifrbious to see it. How close
:13:49. > :13:56.did -- oblivious to see it. How close did you come on making good
:13:56. > :14:03.on your wish to die at that point? I think at that point, it wasn't
:14:03. > :14:09.going to become a reality. But it was certainly tempting. The extreme
:14:09. > :14:16.pressure of having to step up. And I know that I will not win this. I
:14:16. > :14:21.might not qualify. And how angry at the same time - you're talking
:14:21. > :14:25.about the lack of self-worth but how angry were you that the cycling
:14:25. > :14:35.authorities consistently year on year appeared to be determined to
:14:35. > :14:41.
:14:41. > :14:49.thwart your efforts to inovate and It is their job. They did it
:14:49. > :14:58.effectively. They brought out the new rules. It was a wee bit
:14:58. > :15:06.underhand dead. You could not compete? I am thankful because it's
:15:06. > :15:10.not me out of my comfort zone. have not discussed drugs. In 2012,
:15:10. > :15:16.it for 20 years or more cycling at the top level was rife with
:15:16. > :15:21.performance-enhancing drugs. You say that she never contemplated
:15:21. > :15:28.taking such drugs. To what extent you believe that that thwarted your
:15:28. > :15:35.ambitions? Going back to the Olympics, I knew that she took
:15:35. > :15:41.drugs with impunity. If you had impunity you would not be caught. I
:15:41. > :15:48.was not tempted. It was coming to the point at the end of my career,
:15:48. > :15:53.the point where I believed up to that point, that people taking
:15:53. > :15:58.drugs was stupid. I knew that I should train harder. I will suffer
:15:58. > :16:08.more, I would train harder and better. I will ride better. I will
:16:08. > :16:09.
:16:09. > :16:15.be more efficient. I think that if you take drugs, then I would
:16:15. > :16:25.breezed my last breath to get to the finish line before you. --
:16:25. > :16:25.
:16:25. > :16:33.breathed my last breath. This is a physical advantage to work harder.
:16:33. > :16:36.People are still doing this with impunity. I realise that I am at a
:16:36. > :16:44.severe physical disadvantage. A lot of mental energy was needed to
:16:44. > :16:48.overcome that. Do think it was that important? I thought back to an
:16:48. > :16:52.interview by David Miller, he was busted for drugs in the early to
:16:52. > :16:58.thousands, at the top of his sport at the Tour de France. He was
:16:58. > :17:02.banned for a while. Because of the rules of the British Olympic
:17:02. > :17:12.Association, he is now barred from being in the British Olympic team
:17:12. > :17:16.
:17:16. > :17:23.for 2012. Is that right? Should baby forever bent for doping?
:17:24. > :17:28.think that David Mellor should be allowed to ride. I had a
:17:28. > :17:32.conversation with a scientific adviser for the agency, I saw a
:17:32. > :17:39.presentation at Cambridge University last year. We both
:17:39. > :17:43.agreed that beyond the way of effectively changing the drug
:17:43. > :17:49.culture, it is possible to take drugs right now. Especially with
:17:49. > :17:58.the testing procedures and get away with it. We want to change that,
:17:58. > :18:03.you need a change in attitudes of the athletes. David Miller has
:18:03. > :18:07.consistently tried to change the minds of his fellow riders and the
:18:07. > :18:14.sport in general that drug-taking is bad and we cannot accept it.
:18:15. > :18:19.This means that he should be allowed to ride. If David Miller
:18:19. > :18:24.had thrown acid into a lady's face, he would have been rehabilitated
:18:24. > :18:30.and carried on his life as if it never happened. Why should it be
:18:30. > :18:39.different that he is an athlete? Yes, you said the other day that
:18:39. > :18:46.you hate it when people who achieved anything on a bicycle must
:18:46. > :18:55.have taken drugs. Will it be a tainted sport for ever? That is a
:18:55. > :19:02.hard one to answer. Sport was extremely damaged by the
:19:02. > :19:06.revelations of drug-taking. The anger for me was, I actually had
:19:06. > :19:15.responsible people backing me, who said that Graeme Obree must have
:19:15. > :19:25.been the same acts the rest. -- same as the rest. It was bad in the
:19:25. > :19:27.
:19:27. > :19:30.90s the drug-taking. There is a new attitude among bicycle riders.
:19:30. > :19:35.Let's stop talking about drugs and now talk about some more personal
:19:35. > :19:45.issues.Now more open about the fact that you wrote with an alcohol
:19:45. > :19:47.
:19:47. > :19:53.problem. You drowned your anguish and depression in alcohol? It was
:19:54. > :19:57.difficult to do what she did, pushing your body to the limit, you
:19:57. > :20:02.spoke of riding to the point when your lungs were actually pleading.
:20:02. > :20:10.You could taste blood in your mouth as he finished that race. You were
:20:10. > :20:15.pushing your body to the limit, and she were virtually an alcoholic.
:20:15. > :20:22.During be season, I did not drink wheresoever. Then during the three
:20:22. > :20:27.months I made up for everyone else's year. As soon as the last
:20:27. > :20:36.race was over in October, it is the start of the holiday season and
:20:36. > :20:40.time to get the beers out. Was it something to do with sexuality? You
:20:40. > :20:48.have been open with the fact that the end of your career that you are
:20:48. > :20:53.homosexuals. At the time when you're writing, you never were.
:20:53. > :21:02.What a new that it was deep down in my heart. Might consume of alcohol
:21:02. > :21:08.was an escapism -- my consumption of alcohol. If people tell you that
:21:08. > :21:18.you're a great person and then I say thank you that is very nice of
:21:18. > :21:19.
:21:19. > :21:27.you. I wanted to say excuse me you were all wrong and you are a piece
:21:27. > :21:37.of rubbish, not a lovely human being. You're not explicit in that
:21:37. > :21:40.
:21:40. > :21:50.light, you were not truthful to yourself? It was a conflict between
:21:50. > :21:51.
:21:51. > :21:59.my self worth. You think you would have been a happier more fulfilled
:21:59. > :22:05.person if you have never taken up full-time cycling? I have a love-
:22:05. > :22:12.hate relationship with it. I will always go back to it. Ultimately,
:22:12. > :22:22.my bike is my best friend. I would say to anybody to Douai sport.
:22:22. > :22:22.
:22:22. > :22:27.Honestly, now I can to rides and let it go. I love cycling and it
:22:27. > :22:32.has saved my life. It amazes me after everything you have been true,
:22:32. > :22:37.the anguish, the trauma and the pain, you still have an ambition to
:22:37. > :22:46.do something extraordinary in cycling. At the moment, you are
:22:46. > :22:51.preoccupied with making a human power land-speed record. Why?
:22:51. > :23:00.Because it is there. It is not a choice. I still have injuries, a
:23:00. > :23:07.bad neck. I have had the idea of how to do this, the mechanics, the
:23:07. > :23:15.buyer of mechanical engineering and design of the bike. -- by a
:23:15. > :23:21.mechanical. It is not even a choice issue, I have to do this and it'll
:23:21. > :23:31.be fun. What speed do you believe that your engine, your body, can
:23:31. > :23:38.take a bike. What is the top speed that you can get to? Well, the
:23:38. > :23:44.record is 83mph, I think I would give that a good shake. I'm not
:23:44. > :23:54.saying that I would break it. I would be the first man to get to
:23:54. > :23:54.