:00:09. > :00:14.falling in the coming months. It is time to bring your HARDtalk.
:00:14. > :00:24.What is a film and what is art? Is a movie about a male sex addict
:00:24. > :00:29.with a scene after seen of him indulging in his addiction art?
:00:29. > :00:33.With me is the award-winning artist and film-maker Steve McQueen. He is
:00:33. > :00:37.considered to be one of the most exciting talents in the film
:00:37. > :00:47.industry. Does he deserve the accolades for her this movie and
:00:47. > :01:07.
:01:07. > :01:12.Steve McQueen, welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you. Why did she want to make
:01:12. > :01:18.a film about a man with a sex addiction? I thought it was
:01:18. > :01:24.important. It is a subject which nobody speaking about. I thought it
:01:24. > :01:28.was worthy of having a background where people can actually have a
:01:28. > :01:35.conversation about the film. Do you really think nobody speaks about it
:01:35. > :01:40.Crows we have had various Hollywood actors talk about sex addictions.
:01:40. > :01:47.People go into sex clinics. People talk about it. But people snigger.
:01:48. > :01:54.They laugh at it. It is not taken seriously. It is not seen might
:01:54. > :01:59.alcohol addiction or drug addiction. What was fascinating about it was
:01:59. > :02:04.that everyone indulges in a one way or another in sex. Everyone drinks
:02:04. > :02:11.-- not everyone drinks or takes drugs. But everyone has a
:02:11. > :02:18.relationship with sex. There is a stigma attached to sex. I wanted to
:02:18. > :02:24.look at it in a serious fashion. you believe sex addiction exists?
:02:24. > :02:28.Expert opinion is divided. One example, in the United States a
:02:28. > :02:33.doctor who works as a psychologist for more than a decade says there
:02:33. > :02:38.is no evidence that sex addiction is a ballad psychiatric disorder.
:02:38. > :02:43.It is not like drug were alcohol addiction. You do not get cravings
:02:43. > :02:49.and withdrawal symptoms. It is more of a compulsion. Addiction is the
:02:49. > :02:56.wrong word. Once upon a time people used to say the world was flat. A
:02:56. > :03:04.lot of people believed it. It is one of those things where there is
:03:04. > :03:08.a stigma attached to it. The stigma is sex. You did a lot of research.
:03:08. > :03:14.People who describe themselves as sex addicts. I do not want to
:03:14. > :03:18.suggest that their opinions are not valid. But consider what the
:03:18. > :03:24.experts said. Are you convinced it exists in the light of your
:03:24. > :03:30.conversations with them? People were diagnosing themselves. Experts
:03:30. > :03:34.in the field to have looked into this just as much as his other
:03:34. > :03:44.expert has. They came to an end conclusion that there is a thing
:03:44. > :03:47.
:03:47. > :03:56.called sex addiction. One could take alcohol and drug addiction out
:03:56. > :04:02.of somebody's life. That is why it is a problem. This rock musician he
:04:02. > :04:07.used to play for her a bend in America says he believes he slept
:04:07. > :04:12.with more than 3,000 women. He said he never considered himself a sex
:04:12. > :04:22.addict. He said it never messed up his ability to function at a higher
:04:22. > :04:22.
:04:22. > :04:28.level. You cannot absorb man who pronounce themselves sex addicts. -
:04:28. > :04:32.- abs older man. You cannot absolve them of their actions. You cannot.
:04:32. > :04:38.There is a difference between being promiscuous and having an addiction.
:04:38. > :04:46.There is a difference. A man who has had sex with more than 3,000
:04:46. > :04:52.women? I do not know what the average number is. It could be more.
:04:52. > :04:58.There is a situation similar to drug or alcohol addiction. They are
:04:58. > :05:06.craving for the thing and running their lives. Addiction is when
:05:07. > :05:15.everything else becomes secondary. The compulsion is destroying their
:05:15. > :05:20.life. That is what you film says? It is a serious matter. People are
:05:20. > :05:27.laughing about it. But it is serious. People's lives are being
:05:27. > :05:30.ruined. We will show you a cup of your film. You make a distinction
:05:30. > :05:39.between the central character, Brandon, whose inability to be
:05:39. > :05:47.intimate with a woman who he likes. One person for the rest of your
:05:47. > :05:53.life. You come to restaurants and see couple sitting together. They
:05:53. > :06:03.do not have anything to say. They are connected. They do not have to
:06:03. > :06:03.
:06:03. > :06:13.speak. Or they are just a bore. -- Ford. What is your longest
:06:13. > :06:21.
:06:21. > :06:27.relationship? Exactly? For months. That is the actor who plays the
:06:27. > :06:34.character of Brandon. You said in making this film that you wanted to
:06:34. > :06:40.challenge people's assumptions. But surely it to do that you need to
:06:40. > :06:45.inform them somehow. That is one of the criticism about your film. This
:06:45. > :06:51.character, Brandon, we have no idea what he does for her a living. He
:06:51. > :06:55.comes out of nowhere. You do not empathise or sympathise with him.
:06:55. > :07:05.You do not know a great deal about him. Surely you have to inform
:07:05. > :07:14.
:07:14. > :07:22.them? People are very intelligent. The job that he does is a job in an
:07:22. > :07:29.office environment. It is like any job in an office. It is to do with
:07:29. > :07:39.advertising. The situation of the back story, the criticism has come
:07:39. > :07:42.
:07:42. > :07:51.about where he comes from. I have just met you. Hopefully we can get
:07:51. > :07:57.to know each other. At understand your past three your presence. That
:07:57. > :08:03.is what I want to do through the film. The movie had been going on
:08:03. > :08:08.for a while before all this had come out. There is a moment in
:08:08. > :08:12.Brandon's wife where they can put the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle
:08:12. > :08:19.together through the present. have seen the film. There is a lot
:08:19. > :08:29.of sex. A lot of full frontal nudity. Soft-core pornography
:08:29. > :08:33.
:08:33. > :08:39.masquerading as art? Sex titillate. All people find this -- sex
:08:39. > :08:45.addiction titillating. Are you not saying that sex sells? People can
:08:45. > :08:55.do that more successfully than I could possibly do in this situation.
:08:55. > :08:59.It is not particularly sexy. It is not pornographic or vulgar. This is
:08:59. > :09:04.irresponsible film. It is about a personal problem with their sex
:09:04. > :09:09.life. But people might go because they know it has explicit sex
:09:09. > :09:14.scenes. That is fine. And people go to films where people get their
:09:14. > :09:19.heads chopped off. I cannot dictate what people want. The point I'm
:09:19. > :09:28.trying to make is that this is about someone who has a problem.
:09:28. > :09:33.And finding myself defending sexual addiction quite often. It is
:09:33. > :09:43.similar in the 80s with people who have HIV. There is this massive
:09:43. > :09:44.
:09:44. > :09:52.stigma. Similar to people with sex addiction. It is serious. In terms
:09:52. > :09:55.of the Spelman would you, does it worry you that it got a higher
:09:55. > :10:02.rating? It may not be as much of a commercial success as it might have
:10:02. > :10:06.been. My reason for making this film is to do something responsible.
:10:06. > :10:12.Does it worry you that it may not be as commercially successful with
:10:13. > :10:17.this rating? People will see this film. Children have ways of seeing
:10:17. > :10:21.things which their parents do not want them to see. His commercial
:10:21. > :10:29.success important to you? What is important is that people see the
:10:29. > :10:36.movie. People might be turned off. I am going on to a wider point.
:10:36. > :10:41.People who are intelligent will have the opportunity to realise
:10:41. > :10:48.there is a way around that. Looking at it in a wider perspective. I'll
:10:48. > :10:52.tell you what the Prime Minister has said. He is urging British
:10:52. > :10:57.film-makers are there focus to mainstream movies. This is to
:10:57. > :11:01.bolster the $7 billion British film industry. Calling for more
:11:01. > :11:07.commercially successful pictures to rival Hollywood. Is that something
:11:07. > :11:12.that resonates with you? Making culturally rewarding films as David
:11:12. > :11:21.Cameron has put that may not be commercial successes. I do not even
:11:21. > :11:28.know what that means. Culturally rewarding. Not even Hollywood is
:11:28. > :11:35.accurate at what makes money. Take a look at the King's Speech. Nobody
:11:35. > :11:41.wanted to invest in that movie. is a good example. In the end it
:11:41. > :11:45.was a massive success. But it was made by independent film-makers and
:11:45. > :11:51.cost $14 million to make, getting back $400 million. It won four
:11:51. > :11:54.Oscars. It shows you can make a film on a small budget that is
:11:54. > :12:04.commercially successful. We do have liked to have made something like
:12:04. > :12:05.
:12:05. > :12:14.that? If I wanted to make money I would be in a different game. I am
:12:14. > :12:22.an artist. What is art about? It is about experimenting and reflecting
:12:22. > :12:31.with humanity. If it makes money, great. If it does not, so what?
:12:31. > :12:35.you might not get public money. That is what the government says.
:12:35. > :12:43.The government want to get involved in how art is there seemed to and
:12:43. > :12:51.how art is made. -- proceed. If we go down that road we are in a
:12:51. > :12:58.dangerous place. But if you take money from British Film Institute
:12:58. > :13:03.and you say, I have the right to make a film and do artistic work,
:13:03. > :13:08.it is a pity that not everyone likes it, can you justify that?
:13:08. > :13:13.can justify that in that the only quality people can have in terms of
:13:13. > :13:23.making film is that it has some kind of criteria of trying to be
:13:23. > :13:28.
:13:28. > :13:36.excellent. It tries to be excellent. A lot of things have commercial
:13:36. > :13:41.success that a not very good at all. You have had your accolades, in
:13:41. > :13:46.particular for your film Hunger. He won a BAFTA award for it. Best
:13:46. > :13:54.feature film for -- by a director for the first time. It was about
:13:54. > :13:58.the hunger strikes in the early 80s in Belfast. You said at the time,
:13:58. > :14:06.this is one of the most important moments in a recent British history.
:14:06. > :14:12.Why did you say that? Ten men died in a British spy -- prison cell
:14:12. > :14:17.because of starvation. That is important. Ten men died of
:14:17. > :14:22.starvation in a prison cell. That is pretty huge. But wasn't that
:14:23. > :14:32.their choice? It was a choice to make the film in the context of
:14:33. > :14:33.
:14:33. > :14:40.what was going on at the time. did you film lacked balance? One
:14:40. > :14:47.bomb victims said that your film about Bobby Sands glorify as
:14:47. > :14:54.terrorists. I do not think that gentleman actually saw the film.
:14:54. > :14:59.Others made that comment. Even before the cameras started to roll,
:14:59. > :15:08.people were saying that it was glamorising it. I will ask people
:15:08. > :15:13.to go and see it before they judge it. And you obviously do think that.
:15:13. > :15:19.I am just saying that this position a lot of people hold that it lacks
:15:19. > :15:29.balance... It very much emphasised with Bobby Sands. I always try to
:15:29. > :15:34.make a balance. It was always my intention. The actor Stuart Graham
:15:34. > :15:44.who plays a prison warden, we follow him, we see his side of the
:15:44. > :15:44.
:15:45. > :15:51.story. We also seek the hunger striker' side of the story.
:15:51. > :15:56.talk about she mongers de? showed it. We showed what the IRA
:15:56. > :16:05.did in the picture. We see members of the irate shooting a prison
:16:05. > :16:11.officer. -- the IRA. So it you refute the fact that it lacked
:16:11. > :16:16.balance? I do not refuted, go and see the picture. You cannot make a
:16:16. > :16:23.film about this without having some idea of what the other side is
:16:23. > :16:32.feeling. To me, she manatee is more important. -- humanity is more
:16:32. > :16:37.important. Some sort of answer to the situation they Erian. He also
:16:37. > :16:43.said the film has contemporary evidence -- residents. The body is
:16:43. > :16:50.becoming a site of political warfare. Your own body is your last
:16:50. > :16:57.resort for protest. You talk about suicide bombers. Of course. People
:16:57. > :17:07.are taking Daren life in such a way... -- their own that life. It
:17:07. > :17:07.
:17:07. > :17:12.is warfare. Warfare is something that does interest you. In 2003 you
:17:12. > :17:18.were appointed by the Imperial War Museum as the war artist to Iraq.
:17:19. > :17:26.You spend six days in Iraq. The result was a work called Queen and
:17:26. > :17:33.country. It consists of wooden cabinets filled with facsimile it
:17:33. > :17:40.stands with portraits of dead bridges soldiers. Looking at Hunger,
:17:40. > :17:46.the subject matter, hunger strikes, fought the irate the British
:17:46. > :17:52.soldier was the ultimate enemy. You were commemorating British soldiers
:17:52. > :18:02.in Iraq. I am not trying to compare the two incidences, but had he
:18:02. > :18:03.
:18:03. > :18:10.reconcile it? They are humans that died in a tragic way. The ultimate
:18:10. > :18:20.goal was to have an official stamp made. People died in a war honoured
:18:20. > :18:25.with a stab. -- people died in a war, they were honoured by a stamp.
:18:25. > :18:35.Bain officer in a British army could have a stamp. To honour the
:18:35. > :18:35.
:18:35. > :18:41.dead. Unfortunately, we were stopped by the Royal Mail. What do
:18:41. > :18:47.you want to happen to your work? What we and their relatives wanted
:18:47. > :18:56.was that they make official stamps of the dead. That is what you do it.
:18:56. > :19:04.You said it struck me as an intimate but distinguished way as a
:19:04. > :19:11.way of highlighting the efforts of these individuals. But you
:19:11. > :19:16.mentioned national ideals. Did I? HARDtalk never get it wrong. What
:19:16. > :19:23.were you talking about their? not know, I do not remember saying
:19:23. > :19:32.it. I can only interpreted in the weight that what I like about
:19:32. > :19:40.Britain is that we can reflect... On situations that we can reflect
:19:40. > :19:47.on ourselves, reflect on what we have done, who we are. You said
:19:47. > :19:52.that straight after visiting Iraq. You know why I am asking you this?
:19:52. > :19:58.In what way was the Iraq war upholding a national ideals with
:19:58. > :20:04.the UK? We have heard politicians and commentators all saying that it
:20:04. > :20:14.was not a walk. Was it a regime changed? I do not believe I ever
:20:14. > :20:21.said it. You want to have a debate about it. I am just asking you.
:20:21. > :20:30.Personally, I do not agree with the war in Iraq. So why did you except
:20:30. > :20:40.to become the official war artist to Iraq? Requested by the Imperial
:20:40. > :20:44.
:20:44. > :20:48.War Museum. What I was trying to say -- if I did say that, it is all
:20:48. > :20:54.about contradicting the whole notion of what the war artist is.
:20:54. > :21:02.You go there to reflect on what is going on. You criticise it. Were
:21:03. > :21:09.you criticising yet by taking that position? I do not know. Did your
:21:09. > :21:14.friends ask what you were doing? because the post is not about
:21:15. > :21:20.glorifying British nationalism. I am not interested. The post has
:21:20. > :21:27.always been a situation of an artist reflecting on circumstances.
:21:27. > :21:32.But, let me finish... The fact of the manor is... For me, the stamp
:21:32. > :21:38.is for people who oppose the war and also... If you send people out
:21:38. > :21:46.to war and they die in the name of the country, you should honour them.
:21:46. > :21:51.It is a matter of great tragedy that these soldiers did die. But
:21:51. > :21:59.you do not shy away from gritty topics at all, do you, Steve
:21:59. > :22:08.McQueen? You are working on another topic right now about a slave.
:22:08. > :22:15.is black. Wrongly reported again! Sorry. Gritty topics is what you
:22:15. > :22:22.really like. I like things for me which are screaming but are not
:22:22. > :22:32.being held -- being heard. It is very evident to me that these
:22:32. > :22:34.
:22:34. > :22:43.things need subject. Race is an end slavery? Freedom. - races them and
:22:43. > :22:50.slavery? All of my films are about freedom. Twelve Years a Slave is
:22:50. > :22:57.about a middle class black man in the 18th century and he is
:22:57. > :23:02.kidnapped. Final question, you have said, I take my audiences seriously
:23:02. > :23:08.because they take myself seriously. I do not offer them a plate with
:23:08. > :23:14.food already on it. I offer them a buffet. Is that what you like? You
:23:14. > :23:20.do your work and your heart and you let the audience take away what
:23:20. > :23:25.they want from it? I think it is important that once people leave
:23:25. > :23:29.the exhibition or cinema, they can come away and have a conversation
:23:29. > :23:37.about the subject. The artwork should provoke them to have a