:00:32. > :00:38.You're watching BBC News. The headlines: Fabio Capello has
:00:38. > :00:43.resigned as manager of the England football teams. He quit following a
:00:43. > :00:48.meeting at Wembley. He will leave the post with the immediate effect.
:00:48. > :00:52.He was angered by the FA's decision to strip John Terry of the
:00:52. > :00:57.captaincy. The man widely tipped to be the
:00:57. > :01:05.next manager, Harry Redknapp, has been cleared of tax evasion charges.
:01:05. > :01:14.He says the case should never have been taken to trial. Milan Mandaric
:01:14. > :01:20.was also acquitted. The residents of the Syrian city of
:01:20. > :01:30.Homs say they have been hit by the worst violence so far. Activists
:01:30. > :01:31.
:01:31. > :01:36.say as many as 40 people have been killed so far today.
:01:36. > :01:39.15 more people including Steve Coogan, whose phones were hacked by
:01:39. > :01:47.the News of the World have settled their claims with News
:01:47. > :01:52.International. Mr Coogan said he took the action to expose the way
:01:52. > :01:59.parts of the media has been acting. The chief executive of the Royal
:01:59. > :02:09.Bank of Scotland said he decided to pass up his bonus because of damage
:02:09. > :02:18.
:02:18. > :02:23.it is causing to the bank. What does it take for us to enjoy
:02:23. > :02:27.watching sport? It is more than just being impressed by athletic
:02:27. > :02:33.ability. It has to be our belief, our knowledge that competitors are
:02:33. > :02:37.not cheating. That the outcome of the match has not been fixed. That
:02:37. > :02:40.they are not taking illegal, performance-enhancing drugs.
:02:40. > :02:46.Without that certainty that the competition is there we might as
:02:46. > :02:50.well all go home. At the home of the IOC and a range of other
:02:50. > :02:58.sporting bodies I have come to talk to a man that embodies the fight
:02:58. > :03:08.for fairness. John Fahey, the head of the World Anti-Doping Agency.
:03:08. > :03:21.
:03:21. > :03:27.Can he reassure us that it is a Welcome to HARDtalk. Let me take
:03:28. > :03:32.you back to something that you said just after he became President of
:03:32. > :03:41.the World Anti-Doping Agency. You said that the fight against drugs
:03:41. > :03:46.is more than likely never going to be one, do you stand by that?
:03:46. > :03:51.As each year goes past in that race that we get closer to the finishing
:03:51. > :03:59.line but we are never going to make it. The simple fact is that human
:03:59. > :04:06.nature gets in the road. Fortune, fame that might flow from any app -
:04:06. > :04:11.- any athlete is always likely to outweigh other considerations.
:04:11. > :04:18.There will always be those who attempt to cheat and as a result of
:04:18. > :04:23.that there will always be the need for an organisation to try to stamp
:04:23. > :04:27.out the problem. What makes you think that you are getting closer
:04:27. > :04:33.to cleaning up sport? We are far more intelligent with the way we
:04:33. > :04:38.deal with it. In the early days we were focused on as many Tests as
:04:38. > :04:44.possible. We have recognised that it is about quality and not
:04:44. > :04:50.quantity. We need to target those we are taking samples off. We need
:04:50. > :04:56.to incorporate with law enforcement agencies and share information with
:04:56. > :05:00.them. We do so with some knowledge and that makes us more effective
:05:00. > :05:09.and in my view, it makes us, brings us closer to the finishing line
:05:10. > :05:18.that I know we will never get to. The next time you will be in the
:05:19. > :05:21.news is next month in a court fight with the national Olympics
:05:21. > :05:31.Association, the British Olympic Association because you are
:05:31. > :05:33.
:05:33. > :05:38.challenging the lifelong ban on drug... The code allows us to
:05:38. > :05:43.assess and make a decision on the compliance of the signatories. That
:05:43. > :05:49.particular decision was made by the Foundation board in November of
:05:49. > :05:53.last year. In the lead-up to that matter are being discussed by the
:05:53. > :05:57.board there was initially a decision by the Court of
:05:57. > :06:02.Arbitration of sport in respect to the rule of the International
:06:02. > :06:06.Olympic Committee. Their rule stated that they have the right to
:06:06. > :06:12.prevent anybody attending an Olympics if that person had a
:06:12. > :06:16.suspension of six months or more. In the next Olympics they were
:06:16. > :06:21.disqualified from attending. The court through that out and said it
:06:21. > :06:26.is an additional sanction. As a result of that week asked the
:06:26. > :06:30.British Olympic Association to examine their by-law which said
:06:31. > :06:35.that you cannot be selected in to a team that will allow you to attend
:06:35. > :06:41.the Olympics with a six-month suspension for the rest of your
:06:41. > :06:46.life. We were told ultimately in a very different sort of way through
:06:46. > :06:51.speeches and media statements that the British Olympic Association was
:06:51. > :06:55.going to stand by the by-law. The foundation would have to consider
:06:55. > :07:03.whether or not they were compliant with the rules and the decision was
:07:03. > :07:05.quite clear on legal advice. A No 1 was pushing you to take these.
:07:05. > :07:13.There are not British athletes queuing up to challenge this in
:07:13. > :07:23.court. Every two years we have to give a report to our stakeholders
:07:23. > :07:23.
:07:23. > :07:33.on the compliance of our signature use. -- our signatories. They were
:07:33. > :07:34.
:07:34. > :07:41.non-compliant on the rules, the BOA. It looks from the outside as if it
:07:41. > :07:45.is the anti-doping agency being soft on drugs cheats. This quote
:07:45. > :07:49.from a gold winning British decathlete. He said he would like
:07:49. > :07:56.to see you on the side of people who do not cheat rather than
:07:56. > :08:03.minimum sentences for people who do. Why didn't he say that when we
:08:03. > :08:07.reviewed the code in 2007? They had that opportunity and they can get
:08:07. > :08:11.it again now because we are undertaking a further review that
:08:11. > :08:16.was signalled long before this review came up that would allow us
:08:16. > :08:24.to adopt whatever the stakeholders the signatories decide... For what
:08:24. > :08:30.is your personal view? It does not matter. It does. I am the President
:08:30. > :08:40.of an organisation that is the custodian of a coroner. That code
:08:40. > :08:42.
:08:42. > :08:48.currently serves sanctions for two years. Indeed and I can see why you
:08:48. > :08:54.want people to abide by that code. I am more than interested in what
:08:54. > :08:58.comes out of the process that has now started. We will, over the next
:08:58. > :09:05.18 months or so, seek some missions, look out submissions from all of
:09:05. > :09:09.our signatories. We will go through a process of consultation and I
:09:09. > :09:13.will be interested to see what the penalty is, the sanction that the
:09:14. > :09:18.sporting movement, the governments of the world believe is appropriate
:09:18. > :09:22.and I will support what that outcome might be. I understand and
:09:22. > :09:27.respect that but I am asking what you personally think given that you
:09:27. > :09:31.wonder figurehead in the fight against drugs cheats. It is
:09:31. > :09:37.irrelevant what I personally think. Not as far as an awful lot of
:09:37. > :09:45.people think. I was the head of a government in the state of New
:09:45. > :09:50.South Wales and I had no right to way personal abuse. The code has
:09:50. > :09:56.been adopted by our signatories, our board members and that contains
:09:56. > :10:00.the sanction of two years until that changes. If there is a wish to
:10:00. > :10:04.change that it will get my support. I understand that you are bound by
:10:04. > :10:09.the rules but your approach sounds cautious, bureaucratic rather than
:10:09. > :10:17.you saying, it troubles me about drugs cheats might think they could
:10:17. > :10:26.get away with a two-year ban. You are saying, well, whatever the
:10:26. > :10:32.people who pay my wages decide I will carry up their balls. For the
:10:32. > :10:37.-- for starters I do not get wages. Cheats in sport get away with it
:10:37. > :10:43.and that troubles me. But the sanction is another issue. That
:10:43. > :10:49.sanction is held, the sporting world has been held in good stead
:10:49. > :10:53.for a number of years. If I can go to the British Olympic
:10:53. > :10:59.Association's by-law, three people in 20 years had been caught by the
:10:59. > :11:04.by-law. 28 others were exonerated on appeal. I wonder, I ask how
:11:04. > :11:09.effective that might have been. I don't mind. If they want to have a
:11:09. > :11:13.tough law, we are saying that the court has determined it is an
:11:13. > :11:19.additional sanction and therefore we take no other view, took no
:11:19. > :11:24.other view other than to say that your rules do not comply with the
:11:24. > :11:34.anti-doping code that you are a signatory to us. Let me put it
:11:34. > :11:39.
:11:39. > :11:45.another way. This stems from a US sprinter challenging competing at
:11:45. > :11:49.the Olympics after he was suspended for drugs offences. What will it
:11:49. > :11:56.make you feel like watching him compete in London? He has served
:11:56. > :12:02.his time and the rules say that he can now compete next time. You feel
:12:02. > :12:07.fine about him competing? If he is selected. I have no difficulties of
:12:07. > :12:17.him competing on the basis that he has served a sanction, he was found
:12:17. > :12:18.
:12:18. > :12:22.to have a prohibited substance. He has a ride to get on with his life.
:12:22. > :12:26.If that involves representing the United States in London I have no
:12:26. > :12:32.difficulty with that. Do you have specific concerns about the London
:12:32. > :12:40.Olympics? Nothing specific. There are specific sports that concern
:12:40. > :12:50.you? No, no. I think it is fair to say they are right sheets in all
:12:50. > :12:56.sports. If you look at where we are out in 2012 as opposed to 2004,
:12:56. > :13:01.2008, there is a far more effective anti-doping programme in place now,
:13:01. > :13:06.far more intelligent approach in catching cheats and I have little
:13:06. > :13:10.doubt that those responsible for the programme, the IOC, will put
:13:10. > :13:14.together a comprehensive programme that will deal with not only the
:13:14. > :13:20.lead-up to the Olympics, the weeks and the months leading up, the out
:13:20. > :13:29.of competition training, testing and samples and also during the
:13:29. > :13:34.Games, random testing and testing of the Met all events. What do you
:13:34. > :13:38.feel when you hear about cases such as Alberto Contador, the Tour de
:13:38. > :13:43.France winner who was hoping to compete at the Olympics and will
:13:43. > :13:49.not be able to because it has been found that yes, he did have the
:13:49. > :13:55.banned substance clenbuterol. He is going to serve eight two-year ban.
:13:55. > :14:01.Do you think, fantastic, we caught another one or do you think I wish
:14:01. > :14:07.cycling were cleaner than it were? My reaction is to say, this is a
:14:07. > :14:15.good day for all the clean athletes of the world. A court has made a
:14:15. > :14:20.decision. A high-profile athlete is a cheat. It reassures the clean
:14:20. > :14:26.athletes, cyclists that the unfair advantage that may come from cheats
:14:26. > :14:30.is being eliminated, may be slowly but being eliminated. Equally you
:14:30. > :14:35.could see that the culture of drugs is rife. How many times have we
:14:36. > :14:42.been told that that's it, and line in the sand has been drawn,
:14:42. > :14:47.particularly for Cycling? One operation after another, police
:14:47. > :14:51.investigations, yet it comes back. What I would say about cycling is
:14:52. > :14:56.this. It would seem to me that cycling was in denial about a
:14:56. > :15:02.problem not so long ago. I think they have moved past that. There is
:15:02. > :15:05.little doubt from what I have seen, from the observations that time
:15:05. > :15:13.make that they have recognised the problem they had and they have done
:15:13. > :15:17.something about it. For example, the athlete biological passport
:15:17. > :15:22.programme effectively means the top 800 cyclists in the world are
:15:23. > :15:32.constantly giving blood for that particular programme to take effect.
:15:32. > :15:37.That puts all of the cyclists on notice common they can get and
:15:37. > :15:45.knock on the door at any time and something could lead to a sanction
:15:45. > :15:48.and it has occurred. That is an investment by cycling as a sport
:15:48. > :15:54.that I can only commend. What I believe is the case with cycling is
:15:54. > :15:59.that yes, they had big problems and would acknowledge that. They have
:15:59. > :16:07.less problems today but it is not a clean sport in the way any other
:16:07. > :16:13.sport is. Alberto Contador, the man who has been cleared, is supported
:16:13. > :16:16.by the Spanish Cycling Federation. How can you be confident when one
:16:16. > :16:25.of the national federations on which she you rely it is fighting
:16:25. > :16:30.I regret the fact that any federation it might take the side
:16:30. > :16:34.of somebody who has been found to have been committed to a drug
:16:34. > :16:40.offence. He has been found to have committed an offence.
:16:40. > :16:46.Doesn't that totally undercut your work?
:16:46. > :16:53.I can understand where Patriot doesn't sometimes overtakes common
:16:53. > :16:59.sense. -- patriotism. I say that none of us should be supportive of
:16:59. > :17:06.anybody who is a cheat. Weedy you think that Lance
:17:06. > :17:10.Armstrong's -- y you think that Lance Armstrong's investigation has
:17:10. > :17:17.been closed? Wedd is that leave your investigations.
:17:17. > :17:21.The week that no investigation into a home. The United States anti-
:17:21. > :17:27.doping agency has had a role and we have asked that the information
:17:27. > :17:32.that has been obtained which relates to doping by this law
:17:32. > :17:37.enforcement agency by this -- be passed over.
:17:37. > :17:42.So you say that your investigations are now beginning into Lance
:17:42. > :17:46.Armstrong? No. I am saying that there may well
:17:46. > :17:52.be information collected that may be of interest. The allegation was
:17:52. > :17:56.alleged fraud and a criminal investigation. There has been an
:17:56. > :18:00.investigation and a decision taken. It surprised me that the
:18:00. > :18:05.investigation stopped as abruptly as it did. All indications were
:18:05. > :18:11.that further indications -- and these would be occurring this way.
:18:11. > :18:16.That is simply stopped. What disappoints me is that any
:18:16. > :18:22.cheat that get away with it. Was that going to lead to an
:18:22. > :18:26.outcome? I have no idea. That had a fair bit to run before any of us
:18:26. > :18:29.has certainty. Why then do you think it is
:18:29. > :18:38.important that the United States anti-doping agency pursues Lance
:18:38. > :18:43.Armstrong? The American agency will progress
:18:43. > :18:51.of that matter, of the events allows them to and it may not be
:18:51. > :18:57.against Lance Armstrong but many of the others. -- evidence. I do not
:18:57. > :19:01.know. If they get the information, they can make that decision but it
:19:01. > :19:03.is an anti- doping investigation or and anti-doping procedure that they
:19:04. > :19:09.will pursue, not a criminal procedure which has now been
:19:09. > :19:13.stopped. I just wonder if one of the
:19:13. > :19:18.indications is not specifically to do with him or a much broader
:19:18. > :19:23.investigation. You said you are trying to move the focus away from
:19:23. > :19:27.testing towards more intelligence led operations in combination with
:19:27. > :19:31.police. Here, the American authorities have spent a huge
:19:31. > :19:38.amount of time and money investigating one man it to come up
:19:38. > :19:41.with nothing. It could be the lesson that has drawn from a lot of
:19:41. > :19:43.law enforcement agencies around the world that they want to co-operate
:19:43. > :19:48.that it is simply not worth the bother.
:19:48. > :19:56.I think what has occurred here is that they have pursued the alleged
:19:56. > :19:59.fraud. In the course of investigations there, they have
:19:59. > :20:03.entered into the world of doping and in that context, information
:20:03. > :20:08.has no doubt been collected by them which can be of some value and if
:20:08. > :20:15.we see it, if the anti-doping Agency sees it, then they can make
:20:15. > :20:21.those decisions. One can say that you should not let that evidence
:20:21. > :20:25.stay on some shelves somewhere. It may be very relevant to current
:20:25. > :20:31.athletes, not necessarily Lance Armstrong, who has announced his
:20:31. > :20:35.retirement. Let us see it being examined for the purposes of
:20:35. > :20:37.fighting against doping in bought it at Cannes, it will be a good
:20:37. > :20:40.thing. What convinces you that law
:20:40. > :20:44.enforcement agencies around the world will want to co-operate with
:20:44. > :20:47.you? There are countries that pass laws
:20:47. > :20:52.giving that right. There are an awful lot of countries
:20:52. > :20:56.that hadn't. We have developed a protocol for
:20:56. > :21:00.the association and co-operation between law enforcement agencies
:21:00. > :21:05.and anti-doping organisations. There are a lot of people who think
:21:05. > :21:11.that the focus on recreational drugs against performance enhancing
:21:11. > :21:17.drugs needs to be changed and that you are -- your sanctions are
:21:17. > :21:22.disproportionately harsh to those at lead to a court snorting cocaine
:21:22. > :21:27.or smoking cannabis, because it is not about becoming a better sports
:21:27. > :21:32.person. Let me say first leak, I dislike
:21:32. > :21:36.intensely the word recreation when it comes to talking about drugs.
:21:36. > :21:41.Those roads are in almost every country I know of in the world
:21:41. > :21:47.illegal. They are against a criminal code. But I also recognise
:21:47. > :21:52.that they are used on a widespread basis amongst many, particularly
:21:52. > :21:57.young, people including at least. I take you back to the rationale
:21:57. > :22:03.behind the anti-doping code that we have got. The three Tests are,
:22:03. > :22:08.firstly, is the substance a performance enhancing substance? It
:22:08. > :22:13.is an easy one and that is where the focus tense up to life. But
:22:13. > :22:20.they are two other arms to it. Is the use of that broke against the
:22:20. > :22:25.spirit of sport? Cannabis surely is against the spirit of sport. The
:22:25. > :22:29.third one is, is it a potential danger to the health of the afraid.
:22:29. > :22:32.But the same sort of sanction for somebody smoking a joint Bree weeks
:22:32. > :22:36.before a competition as somebody who has been using performance-
:22:36. > :22:44.enhancing drugs. Most of those drugs are only a
:22:44. > :22:47.legal or banned if they occur in competition. -- illegal. For
:22:47. > :22:52.example, in competition with football codes, the day of the
:22:52. > :22:54.match, for university matches, three weeks before will not lead to
:22:54. > :23:00.a sanction and that is clearly spelled out.
:23:00. > :23:03.So you would agree with your predecessor who said about a change
:23:03. > :23:07.in the balance between the sanctions for recreational and
:23:07. > :23:09.performance-enhancing drugs when he said, this is not a free pass for
:23:09. > :23:14.athletes but we have to recognise that somebody having a joint three
:23:14. > :23:17.weeks before a competition is not doping in the sense of performance
:23:17. > :23:21.enhancing. That is recognised in the way it is
:23:22. > :23:28.dealt with now. Nobody is going to be sanctioned for having a joint
:23:28. > :23:33.three weeks before a game of football or a race in any sport. It
:23:33. > :23:39.is the date of the sport, as I pointed out to you, in competition.
:23:39. > :23:43.Let me take you back to the start. I asked you whether you thought
:23:43. > :23:50.that you were winning it end you said, it is never going to be one
:23:50. > :23:54.but it is a fight we are making progress on. Back in 2010, you said
:23:54. > :23:58.there was ample evidence to suggest there is almost as much money, if
:23:58. > :24:02.not more money, coming out of performance-enhancing drugs as
:24:02. > :24:04.there is out of the illegal drug trade throughout the world. That
:24:04. > :24:09.does not suggest that you are winning.
:24:09. > :24:14.Which is why we work as strongly and closely as we do with the
:24:14. > :24:18.government of the world and 193 of those governments are in fact
:24:18. > :24:23.signatories to our code. Clearly, we need the law enforcement
:24:23. > :24:28.agencies in all of those countries to play their part. We need to
:24:28. > :24:31.ensure that as and when information is obtained and Interpol workers on
:24:31. > :24:37.that, that Interpol shares have that information with the police
:24:37. > :24:42.forces and that members of Interpol take action. All of us want to cut
:24:42. > :24:46.off the supply at force rather than see it trickled through where it
:24:46. > :24:50.actually allows and admit to succumb to the temptation of
:24:50. > :24:54.potential fortune and fame through the support of performance-
:24:54. > :24:59.enhancing drugs. How dangerous do you think it is
:24:59. > :25:04.that if global sport does not clean up further bad at a certain point
:25:04. > :25:10.that we will all just say, there is no point in fighting?
:25:10. > :25:16.Debt is the ultimate meltdown. If the integrity diminishes, if you
:25:16. > :25:21.lose faith in the contest, and believe that all of those qualities
:25:21. > :25:25.that's what brings with it, but most of us were imbued with has
:25:25. > :25:29.small children, then the fall of that disappears, but is exactly the
:25:29. > :25:34.outcome. People are simply won't turn up because they are not
:25:34. > :25:40.convinced any longer that it is true sport. That in itself, for all
:25:40. > :25:47.the good things that sport does in the world, is in my view at
:25:47. > :25:51.motivating factor for all but hard work that is put into fighting the
:25:51. > :25:57.problem, arresting its development we have the weekend. I believe we
:25:57. > :26:01.are making giant strides. I believe we have come a long way. We do have
:26:01. > :26:06.along way to go but there are many of us around the world who are very
:26:06. > :26:16.committed to not giving up in any shape or form.
:26:16. > :26:35.
:26:35. > :26:39.John Fahey, thank you very much for In recent days, we may have heard a
:26:39. > :26:44.battle about mild air and cold air trying to get across from the
:26:44. > :26:50.continent and a battle overhead. The battle continues over Thursday.
:26:51. > :26:56.There is the over all set up here. Mild air is trying to push in. The
:26:56. > :27:01.problem is, call there will not go away. We have an ample warning for
:27:01. > :27:06.ice from the Met Office. -- called Air will not go away. We notice it
:27:06. > :27:12.is relatively milder across the northern parts of Scotland and
:27:12. > :27:19.towards Northern Ireland, but where the two air masses meet, we have
:27:19. > :27:25.rain falling into cold air across the North. A real problem. That is
:27:25. > :27:30.why there is an ample warning. We are still hanging on to a yellow
:27:30. > :27:35.warning for the southern parts of Scotland. For the rest of Scotland
:27:35. > :27:40.and Northern Ireland it is a great start. Relatively mild. Across the
:27:40. > :27:50.rest of England and Wales, it stays cold. No doubt about it. There is a
:27:50. > :27:51.
:27:51. > :27:56.masterly -- actually start to Thursday. -- at chilly start. There
:27:56. > :28:01.will be less when for the south- eastern quarter. The cold is not as
:28:01. > :28:10.penetrating as was the case on Wednesday. This frontal zone will
:28:10. > :28:16.be a long real problem. It could be disruptive iced. Come the afternoon
:28:16. > :28:22.as it keeps running into this cold pool of air, we may well see a
:28:22. > :28:27.conversion of rain into snow across part of Yorkshire. Further north,
:28:27. > :28:30.it rise up and relatively speaking it is mild. We have had this battle
:28:30. > :28:33.and just when you thought that front was going to push all the
:28:33. > :28:37.mild air across the British Isles, it does not quite manage it, simply
:28:37. > :28:42.because we cannot -- we keep getting this cold air around the
:28:42. > :28:47.high pressure. Milder air is lapping into these northern and
:28:47. > :28:51.western parts. The boundary between the two becomes where we see this
:28:51. > :28:54.area of snow are developing which moves across Yorkshire and into the